MUST READ: The True Agenda Of Islam...this is a true story

[krt400ex]

Allah or Jesus

Living in the Detroit area I can concur with this, we have more Muslims in our neighborhood monthly and they are very active in the schools preaching all the time about their "rights" and how tolerant we should be of their faith.

However toleration is a one way street with them. We are to learn about Ramadan, etc. but they are not to learn about Easter or Christmas. What is below is very true. "In God We Trust"


The Basics of Islam

This is a must read -- it's short but Very informative!

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States , especially in the minority races!


Allah or Jesus?

by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance.

During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers
representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam complete with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers! "
I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven!"
The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.
Needless to say, the organizer and/or promoters of the "Diversification" training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.






What u think?

[infantry317]

Actually several popes have ordered the killings of hundreds of thousands of muslims and catholics that questioned the throne.

#1 The Crusades 1 and 2.

#2 The Spanish Inquisition.

That's one of those e-mail stories, but I do agree with most of it.

[rbgnwa45]

Screw religion, man. Way too many complications. I just believe in myself. It's possible to be a good human being without having to worship anything or anybody. Anyone who turns religious after NOT being religious obviously had complications in their life which made them ask questions like:

What is life and what is my purpose?

Is there life after death?

What should I do with my life?

"Why?" to almost anything :o


I, not a religious person, will answer these mysterious questions for you all. The truth to all of these questions is as follows...

Life is the outcome of water, organic molecules, sunlight, and *CHANCE*. Maybe even gravity had something to do with it.

Is there life after death?

*******NEWSFLASH********

YOU WILL OR WILL NOT KNOW IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

If there isn't, then, you won't know that you don't know :eek2: Trippy. You'll have to wait and see. Why think about death when you are alive? You should be living! DUH!

What should I do with my life?

WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!

Should you be a good person?

YES! It reflects back to you. Treat others how you want to be treated.

Muslim faith is fackin' retarded.

The only 'crazy' thing I will ever believe in is intelligent life elsewhere. Don't let people fool you, let your eyes to the judging. If you can't see it, how in the fack can it even be real? Where's the proof? If you were "god", would you not want people to know that you're in existence? It would make it a lot easier for people to believe in you. Until we make a time machine to go back to Jesus, or the beginning of time, all questions can be answered with "We don't know, and never will!", so, who cares?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ScfUjvE1NCg

[krt400ex]

that was during the middle ages...yes i agree with u, and they also ordered the killing of jews too. but ppls views r much changed now....do u think they would order the killing of muslims and jews and such now?

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Screw religion, man. I just believe in myself. It's possible to be a good human being without having to worship anything. Anyone who turns religious after NOT being religious obviously had complications in their life which made them ask questions like:

What is life and what is my purpose?

Is there life after death?

What should I do with my life?

"Why?" to almost anything :o


I, not a religious person, will answer these mysterious questions for you all. The truth to all of these questions is as follows...

Life is the outcome of water, organic molecules, sunlight, and *CHANCE*. Maybe even gravity had something to do with it.

Is there life after death?

*******NEWSFLASH********

YOU WILL OR WILL NOT KNOW IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

If there isn't, then, you won't know that you don't know :eek2: Trippy. You'll have to wait and see. Why think about death when you are alive? You should be living! DUH!

What should I do with my life?

WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!

Should you be a good person?

YES! It reflects back to you. Treat others how you want to be treated.

Muslim faith is fackin' retarded.


The only 'crazy' thing I will ever believe in is intelligent life elsewhere.


i disagree with 99% of what u just said....

[rbgnwa45]

Originally posted by krt400ex
i disagree with 99% of what u just said....

Okay...so...You don't agree that people have complications in their lives. You also don't believe in science, sun, gravity, organic molecules flying around in space, or water. You also apparently believe that you won't die :eek2:, nor should you be living. Hipocritical if you ask me. You also don't want to have free will, as you disagree that you can't just do 'whatever you want' with your life. There goes christianity for you. You also think you can't be a good person without worship. You also don't think the muslim faith isn't "retarded" or "stupid" etc. Whatever faith you are (doesn't really matter), show me some stone cold proof of it. There is nothing in this world that is 'supernatural'. You really should have just agree'd with me :p If you are religious, whatever, I don't care. Just don't try to convert me. The truth hurts man, if you can't handle it, pick up a bible or something.

[infantry317]

I'll say proudly, I am a Christian, not perfect in any aspect. I know that the Bible says it is not my job to judge, nor is it of any man.

That is what almost all religous leaders of any type forget.

[Scro]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Okay...so...You don't agree that people have complications in their lives. You also don't believe in science, sun, gravity, organic molecules flying around in space, or water. You also apparently believe that you won't die :eek2:, nor should you be living. Hipocritical if you ask me. You also don't want to have free will, as you disagree that you can't just do 'whatever you want' with your life. There goes christianity for you. You also think you can't be a good person without worship. You also don't think the muslim faith isn't "retarded" or "stupid" etc. Whatever faith you are (doesn't really matter), show me some stone cold proof of it. There is nothing in this world that is 'supernatural'. You really should have just agree'd with me :p If you are religious, whatever, I don't care. Just don't try to convert me. The truth hurts man, if you can't handle it, pick up a bible or something.

I am going to keep it to myself whether or not I agree with you. But, if anybody is trying to convert anybody, it sounds that you are trying more than him. He merely made a post about the Islamic faith, he wasn't trying to convert anyone.

[rbgnwa45]

krt400ex, I tried to PM you but'cho box is full.

infantry317, these are wise words. I don't judge people even though I am not religious. What I am trying to say, is that you can be all the good things that the Christian religion wants out of you, without believing in anything crazy like "Jesus" or "god". Has anybody here actually had a chat with them lately? AHHHHH didn't think so. People need to believe what's right infront of their eyes, which is the world around them. After reading my opinion, I do agree with you that I am putting pressure on people to convert to "non-religious", but I did say that whatever religion you are, I don't care. Remember, this is my opinion. Obviously.

Here was your PM..

What exactly do you disagree with? You said you didn't believe 'anything' I said but I'm sure you saw a few things that pissed you off a lil...I do believe indifference will kill us, any religion is just another type of fuel for that fire.

peace :p

[PeeWee21]

We will all know who is right and who is wrong in due time i guess. I totally disagree with Muslim faith because it goes against all morals of humanity...if Allah was the God they say he is, he would spend his time having people convert non believers rather killing them off. So many religions and so many people, only in death will we finally know the answer or when we see Jesus coming back. Until then, it's all faith, belief and opinion.

[krt400ex]

i am a Christian too, and i will also admit that i am FAR FROM PERFECT...as i am sure u can see by some of what i have posted in the past, but i will tell u what i believe...and when i have time i will give u soem FACT out of a science book i have that tells why ppl did not come about by chance....

but i do believe that Jesus loves everyone, but he hates the sin. he loves the murderer, but hates it when a murder is committed.

that is why He came: to forgive us because he wants to be with his creation...he wants to have a relationship with us because he loves us....all of us....

he died on that cross so we wouldn't have to die for OUR SIN....so we could live with him after death....so there would not be death. faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen...it takes faith to believe in Jesus, but once u do....u will have eternal life. i know that there is life after death....

he is my personal Lord and Savior.

[rbgnwa45]

Just a question, what sounds better?

Going through life a good person, not religous, and when you die, there is no afterlife. Or maybe there is one and you are like sa-weet.

OR

You go through life being a faithfull Christian knowing that you are going to live forever in the heavens and whatnot..

What if that never happends and there isn't such a thing as an afterlife? Did you waste your life and beliefs?

How would you feel if you found out what you truly believed in was nothing. I mean, if there isn't an afterlife, you wouldn't really know, would you?

Death is such a controversial topic that we all wonder about, and will all face. So I'm just going to wait it out.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
krt400ex, I tried to PM you but'cho box is full.

infantry317, these are wise words. I don't judge people even though I am not religious. What I am trying to say, is that you can be all the good things that the Christian religion wants out of you, without believing in anything crazy like "Jesus" or "god". Has anybody here actually had a chat with them lately? AHHHHH didn't think so. People need to believe what's right infront of their eyes, which is the world around them. After reading my opinion, I do agree with you that I am putting pressure on people to convert to "non-religious", but I did say that whatever religion you are, I don't care. Remember, this is my opinion. Obviously.

Here was your PM..

What exactly do you disagree with? You said you didn't believe 'anything' I said but I'm sure you saw a few things that pissed you off a lil...I do believe indifference will kill us, any religion is just another type of fuel for that fire.

peace :p


that was weird...i only had 5 messages in my PM box...i cleaned it out now though

[krt400ex]

also, i didn't say that i disagreed with wut u said,,,most of wut u said....i said 99%...but is more like 97%

[PeeWee21]

LOL Clean out the sent items in your mailbox to. I just tried to pm you and it says its full!:D

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45

How would you feel if you found out what you truly believed in was nothing. I mean, if there isn't an afterlife, you wouldn't really know, would you?


I'm ok with it either way. I know that Jesus and God exist and that because I am saved I am going to heaven. If there isn't an afterlife like you believe, then what about my lifestyle and my beliefs do you feel I'd regret?

Or maybe I should put it this way.... What do you feel a Christian in general misses out on in this life by being a Christian?

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
LOL Clean out the sent items in your mailbox to. I just tried to pm you and it says its full!:D

i only got 2 messages in there...i don't understand...


maybe it is a privacy setting or something. i will chack my settings

[fandl450r]

rbgnwa45,

I agree with you 100% about everything. I am a man of science myself, I like factual proof or being able to touch something to believe in it. I live my life the way that I want and for myself, and not anyone else. I surround myself with good friends, a great family, and the things I love to do.

I don't really need a book, or a being telling me how to live my life, or things I should do. I'd much rather be the author.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
I'm ok with it either way. I know that Jesus and God exist and that because I am saved I am going to heaven. If there isn't an afterlife like you believe, then what about my lifestyle and my beliefs do you feel I'd regret?

Or maybe I should put it this way.... What do you feel a Christian in general misses out on in this life by being a Christian?

Personally I think that people tend to live their lives the way the think "god" or "jesus" would want you to, and not necessarily the way society or how you think your life should be lived. People may hold back because its frowned upon under the church.

[CDCHONDAS]

One thing to point out many of the things that are generally considered right and wrong and determined in the bible, so for those of you who say you have no religion but you live a good life, i must ask, who do you compare yourself too.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by fandl450r
Personally I think that people tend to live their lives the way the think "god" or "jesus" would want you to, and not necessarily the way society or how you think your life should be lived. People may hold back because its frowned upon under the church.


that is because He is ur God....u love him, want to follow him, and do everything that he says to do....that is why.


it has nothing to do with the church....it is all about ur convictions...Gods word, and ur heart

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
LOL Clean out the sent items in your mailbox to. I just tried to pm you and it says its full!:D


LOL...try now, i just figured out that it saves all the stuff send too...so i cleaned that all out. maybe it will work now

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by krt400ex
that is because He is ur God....u love him, want to follow him, and do everything that he says to do....that is why.


it has nothing to do with the church....it is all about ur convictions...Gods word, and ur heart

It has everything to do with the church, and what they preach, the words of the bible. Me? He is not my god, I personally have no god. I decide what I will do, and what my fate will be.


Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
One thing to point out many of the things that are generally considered right and wrong and determined in the bible, so for those of you who say you have no religion but you live a good life, i must ask, who do you compare yourself too.

I compare myself to my parents, the people who instill values into me, my friends, my co-workers. Its simple psychology really. Right and wrong wasn't begun in the bible.

[CDCHONDAS]

i just have a hard time that we could go from molecules the whole way to humans that can tell right from wrong by chance?

[fandl450r]

But don't worry I am not trying to sway anyone, or induct them into some cult lol. Just me and my personal beliefs and everyone is entitled to theirs. That's one reason why you have churches, a common ground for people will similiar views. :)

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
i just have a hard time that we could go from molecules the whole way to humans that can tell right from wrong by chance?

Evolutionary theory. While hard to believe, as I said I am a man of science, evolution is pretty interesting if you read about it.

Right and wrong isn't hard, fire = hot, bet they didn't touch it too many times before realizing they'd get burned.

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by fandl450r

I compare myself to my parents, the people who instill values into me, my friends, my co-workers. Its simple psychology really. Right and wrong wasn't begun in the bible.

But, who determines what is right and wrong? Me? You? Where did everyones opinion(belief) of right and wrong come from?:p

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
But, who determines what is right and wrong? Me? You? Where did everyones opinion(belief) of right and wrong come from?:p

That's my point, it's psychology. There is no set in stone right or wrong. Just like you may think its terrible to do something, while I may think not so much. Individuals decide what is right and what is wrong, and then like your/my parents, we pass those beliefs onto our children. Everyone will think differently, that's the beauty of the human mind, it has soooo many variances from person to person.

[Flynbryan19]

Then how is it that rules and laws are set? If this is the case, then what "right".......is whatever *I* feel is right. Right? The Psychology you speak of is morals and your conscience. How do you think it is that you got a conscience? How do you feel the people that came before you got it?

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by fandl450r
It has everything to do with the church, and what they preach, the words of the bible. Me? He is not my god, I personally have no god. I decide what I will do, and what my fate will be.



I compare myself to my parents, the people who instill values into me, my friends, my co-workers. Its simple psychology really. Right and wrong wasn't begun in the bible.


why does it have evrything to do with teh church?

it doesn't....the problem is that everyone takes the things they hear and takes it as truth before researching it for themselves. if u look at wut the church and preachers preach, u will see that most of it came out of the Bible.(i do not believe a pastor if they say that they have truth, but it did not come from the Bible...but ppl can have a revelation of something too...it is long and complicated).

wut the preach started somewhere, and that is the bible....the bible has been around alot longer than preachers and teachers...it is a written account of wut happened before...it is filled with prophesy about the future, and it has God's laws that were ordained in the beginning of time.

i am not trying to convert ppl, i am just stated wut i believe and why i disagree with u...or why i agree with u...

[Flynbryan19]

Also too. Evolution is no different than religion. It is a belief. Even evolution can not be proved correct beyond the shadow of a doubt. There have been several things in evolution that have been proven inaccurate. Years ago, we thought the earth was flat......

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
Then how is it that rules and laws are set? If this is the case, then what "right".......is whatever *I* feel is right. Right? The Psychology you speak of is morals and your conscience. How do you think it is that you got a conscience? How do you feel the people that came before you got it?

Yes correct. A Law is just that, a law, just words on a piece of paper. Doesn't make them set in stone, because people still break them, right? We decide what's right or wrong, and then have to own up to whatever consequences are to follow. By 100's of years of evolution, trial and error, the shaping of the mind.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
Then how is it that rules and laws are set? If this is the case, then what "right".......is whatever *I* feel is right. Right? The Psychology you speak of is morals and your conscience. How do you think it is that you got a conscience? How do you feel the people that came before you got it?


i agree, something had to be set in the beginning...whatever or whoever created humans created our conscience. if it is only wut u feel is right, then that would mean that anyone could do whatever he or she wants without consequence(sp?). that means that murder is ok....and rape is ok....and theivery(sp?) is ok....but the thing is...its not ok. and everyone know s that whether they choose to live by it or not, thet all know wut is right and wrong

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
Also too. Evolution is no different than religion. It is a belief. Even evolution can not be proved correct beyond the shadow of a doubt. There have been several things in evolution that have been proven inaccurate. Years ago, we thought the earth was flat......

This is true. But thats the thing, everyone has their own beliefs, whether it be evolution, putting a jihad on someone, or christ. But coming from a scientific state of mind, evolution is a far more logical scenario. Agree to disagree. :D

[PeeWee21]

I do not believe in Evolution....slime+time= man....nah it don't work that way. Evolution is as much a religion as Christianity, Muslimism, and all the rest.....simply because....there was NO ONE there to prove it a FACT....it's just theory, same as you can say religion is a theory....it takes belief and faith to belive in Jesus or Allah....it takes faith to believe that Darwin is correct since no one was ever around to see evolution happen.....you see "Adaptation" happen all the time....there is not 1 single documented fact that shows a species change from one species...to another species. Everything has adapted. If we evolved from monkeys...then why are'nt monkeys still evolving into humans? Why does'nt a dog have produce an offspring that is not a dog? Why do 99% of mammals reproduce offspring the same way? You prove me the science aspect....and i'll prove you the "Creation Science" aspect. There's alot in the Bible that proves science as well as science proves the bible.;)

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by krt400ex
i agree, something had to be set in the beginning...whatever or whoever created humans created our conscience. if it is only wut u feel is right, then that would mean that anyone could do whatever he or she wants without consequence(sp?). that means that murder is ok....and rape is ok....and theivery(sp?) is ok....but the thing is...its not ok. and everyone know s that whether they choose to live by it or not, thet all know wut is right and wrong

As I said in the post above, you choose to think what is right and what is wrong, and then must face the consequences of your actions. It might not make them a good decision, but its your decision to make.

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by fandl450r
Yes correct. A Law is just that, a law, just words on a piece of paper. Doesn't make them set in stone, because people still break them, right? We decide what's right or wrong, and then have to own up to whatever consequences are to follow. By 100's of years of evolution, trial and error, the shaping of the mind.

If that is the case, then nothing is right and nothing is wrong. Right? Because right and wrong are nothing more then what is viewed as acceptable for that time frame. I just don't subscribe to that. If we're left to our own opinion(and or society's opinion) of what is right or wrong there is no right or wrong. In essance we can all do whatever we want. You then will say, Yes we can, but there will be consequences. Again though, where do those feelings that something is wrong come from? Only from the one that gave us a conscience and instilled in us the ability to distinguish right from wrong.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
I do not believe in Evolution....slime+time= man....nah it don't work that way. Evolution is as much a religion as Christianity, Muslimism, and all the rest.....simply because....there was NO ONE there to prove it a FACT....it's just theory, same as you can say religion is a theory....it takes belief and faith to belive in Jesus or Allah....it takes faith to believe that Darwin is correct since no one was ever around to see evolution happen.....you see "Adaptation" happen all the time....there is not 1 single documented fact that shows a species change from one species...to another species. Everything has adapted. If we evolved from monkeys...then why are'nt monkeys still evolving into humans? Why does'nt a dog have produce an offspring that is not a dog? Why do 99% of mammals reproduce offspring the same way? You prove me the science aspect....and i'll prove you the "Creation Science" aspect. There's alot in the Bible that proves science as well as science proves the bible.;)

Well said. :) You say tomatoe I say tomato.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by fandl450r
This is true. But thats the thing, everyone has their own beliefs, whether it be evolution, putting a jihad on someone, or christ. But coming from a scientific state of mind, evolution is a far more logical scenario. Agree to disagree. :D


actually there r many ways to prove evolution completely wrong....and if u read darwins book...even he states that if even the smallest thing is found to prove his theory wrong in one aspect, then the whole theory is worthless and meaningless....


when i have time, i will give u some facts as to why evolution is not true...but i am doing school work and debating at the same time so i don't have time right now...lol

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by krt400ex
actually there r many ways to prove evolution completely wrong....and if u read darwins book...even he states that if even the smallest thing is found to prove his theory wrong in one aspect, then the whole theory is worthless and meaningless....


when i have time, i will give u some facts as to why evolution is not true...but i am doing school work and debating at the same time so i don't have time right now...lol

Just at much can be said about religion in general. Noah's ark, parting the red sea, etc.

But that's true of any theory, truth is no one can prove/disprove anything as of yet, beyond a reasonable doubt.

[30liveStar]

Im an atheist - people wear this subject out - IMO...

From gradeschool on, i was caught up in the "gang" lifestyle, I've seen and done stuff im not proud of at all. One of the things that i am proud of is that even with constant pressure (and access), i never did drugs... Im not going to go into all the activities, but if its that big of an issue of credibility - PM me.

What "laws" do i live my life by? respect... I have no morals - i dont care about some persons life i dont know - the starving kids in africa - i couldnt care less... Seriously - not my problem.

theres my $.02 - not that it counts for much...

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by fandl450r
Just at much can be said about religion in general. Noah's ark, parting the red sea, etc.

But that's true of any theory, truth is no one can prove/disprove anything as of yet, beyond a reasonable doubt.

Then, doesn't that mean that you could also be following a completely false belief? If in fact then it is possible for evolution to be false......isn't it equally possible that Christianity could be true?

I'm not here to tell ya your wrong bro. Just interested in making you THINK. :) Theres so many things in this life that are completely non-understandable and could only be explained as being an act of God. Just don't rule it out as a complete impossiblity.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by 30liveStar
Im an atheist - people wear this subject out - IMO...

From gradeschool on, i was caught up in the "gang" lifestyle, I've seen and done stuff im not proud of at all. One of the things that i am proud of is that even with constant pressure (and access), i never did drugs... Im not going to go into all the activities, but if its that big of an issue of credibility - PM me.

What "laws" do i live my life by? respect... I have no morals - i dont care about some persons life i dont know - the starving kids in africa - i couldnt care less... Seriously - not my problem.

theres my $.02 - not that it counts for much...

Nice 2nd post. :rolleyes:

Flyinbryan, thanks man, trust me that's one thing I am good at, thinking. :D

[30liveStar]

just stating my opinion - since when does post count have to do with anything... I'll postwhore for a week, before adding to a discussion next time :rolleyes:

[PeeWee21]

The common misunderstanding lie in so many things...carbon 14 dating....is not fact. Matter of fact it's proven to be wrong as many times as it has been right! So...another scientific theory.

Alot of people talk about dinosaurs and why they are not mentioned in the Bible.....but they are...they are referred to as dragons...the word dinosaur did'nt come out until the late 1800's. The Bible mentions dragons several times. Dragons lived millions of years ago....not true....why do the ealiest heiroglyphics depict excellent descriptions of dinosaurs painted on cave walls and such? How did they know what they looked like if the dinosaur was dead millions of years prior to man walking the earth? By looking at bones and guessing at what they looked like? They depicted hunting the dinosaurs, riding them and such. Man was here when dinosaurs romed the earth. The T-Rex was considered the dealiest of all Dinosaurs....now they depict him as a scavenger and not a predator? Hmmm....go figure.

Macro evolution is when a species splits into 2 and changes from one species into another over time. With that said...if we are evolving then why does'nt a dog have something other than a dog? Why don't apes still have human babies? Why does a collie from 1801 not look any different from one that is from 2005? Why does'nt a an ape "evolve" into a human?

Read Darwins book on the theory of evolution. Then dig through the palentological data over the last 500 years and find a single example of a creature in the mid stages of evolving from one species into another.

No fossil record exists to support macro-evolution. Not a single piece. In fact the scientific data refutes Darwins theory of evolution. But it is still taught because it is easy to swallow, and they don't have any other explanation.


They say the land masses were joined together at one point in time billions of years ago.....we'd have to shrink Africa 35_40% to get it to fit then!!! lol With that said....what is under the ocean.....land right? Now, the land under the water is connected to what? The land above the water, correct? Then how can they move if all the land is connected?

Lets tackle this then....the Big Bang theory say that " nothing got together with nothing and formed something that exploded and now we've evolved into what we are today".....when you have nothing then you have....well...nothing. How can they prove that this happened? Ah....they can't...they merely have belief, faith that it did happen. With no proof that the Bible is correct and no proof that the Bing Bang theory is correct and they consider the Bible religion...then evolution is a religion.

The Bing Bang theory says that everything was spinning and it collected all this matter and such (yet it contradicts itself by saying nothing came together with nothing) and got extremely hot and exploded and created all the planets stars and such. Now, take 5 kids and put them a merry go round and spin them until they fall off, when you get it spinning fast enough they'll fly off and spin the same direction they were going.....if the Big Bang theory is correct why does Jupiter have moons that spin backwards? Why do other plants orbit the wrong way?

Scientists say the earth is moving away from the sun at a rate of 1.2 feet a month, if the earth was billion and billion of years old then that would put the Earth damn near up against the Sun.

Science said a few years ago that the earth may have had a "water canopy" surrounding it at one point in time.....the Bible tells us this in the beginning in Genesis!!!!

Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven.

Firmament - from the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the Hebrew raki'a. This word means simply "expansion." It denotes the space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who rendered raki'a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular, and hence we read of the sun rising and setting, and also here the use of this particular word. It is plain that it was used to denote solidity as well as expansion. It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below (Gen. 1:7). The raki'a supported the upper reservoir (Ps. 148:4). It was the support also of the heavenly bodies (Gen. 1:14), and is spoken of as having "windows" and "doors" (Gen. 7:11; Isa. 24:18; Mal. 3:10) through which the rain and snow might descend.

Several years back one of the world most gifted research scientists set out to disprove any possibility of there being a higher power. After years of research his conclusion was there HAS to be someone pulling the strings. There's things in nature we understand but simply cannot explain. An example in his words: "a microscopic sperm fertilizing an egg and creating a fully functional human being such as you and I is about as likely as a windstorm blowing into a junkyard and assembling a ready to fly F-16. Possible? Yes. Likely? No---yet healthy gifted people are born every day.

Just a few things!!! lol

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by 30liveStar
just stating my opinion - since when does post count have to do with anything... I'll postwhore for a week, before adding to a discussion next time :rolleyes:

Sounds like a plan. Just an odd 2nd post. ;) I'm agnostic.

[30liveStar]

its all good bro - LoL :eek2:

i understand its peoples beliefs we are talking about - but everyone has the right to believe whatever the hell they want... I dont give a hoot either way... Human nature makes us wonder and question - thats what makes us so unique.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
The common misunderstanding lie in so many things...carbon 14 dating....is not fact. Matter of fact it's proven to be wrong as many times as it has been right! So...another scientific theory.

Alot of people talk about dinosaurs and why they are not mentioned in the Bible.....but they are...they are referred to as dragons...the word dinosaur did'nt come out until the late 1800's. The Bible mentions dragons several times. Dragons lived millions of years ago....not true....why do the ealiest heiroglyphics depict excellent descriptions of dinosaurs painted on cave walls and such? How did they know what they looked like if the dinosaur was dead millions of years prior to man walking the earth? By looking at bones and guessing at what they looked like? They depicted hunting the dinosaurs, riding them and such. Man was here when dinosaurs romed the earth. The T-Rex was considered the dealiest of all Dinosaurs....now they depict him as a scavenger and not a predator? Hmmm....go figure.

Macro evolution is when a species splits into 2 and changes from one species into another over time. With that said...if we are evolving then why does'nt a dog have something other than a dog? Why don't apes still have human babies? Why does a collie from 1801 not look any different from one that is from 2005? Why does'nt a an ape "evolve" into a human?

Read Darwins book on the theory of evolution. Then dig through the palentological data over the last 500 years and find a single example of a creature in the mid stages of evolving from one species into another.

No fossil record exists to support macro-evolution. Not a single piece. In fact the scientific data refutes Darwins theory of evolution. But it is still taught because it is easy to swallow, and they don't have any other explanation.


They say the land masses were joined together at one point in time billions of years ago.....we'd have to shrink Africa 35_40% to get it to fit then!!! lol With that said....what is under the ocean.....land right? Now, the land under the water is connected to what? The land above the water, correct? Then how can they move if all the land is connected?

Lets tackle this then....the Big Bang theory say that " nothing got together with nothing and formed something that exploded and now we've evolved into what we are today".....when you have nothing then you have....well...nothing. How can they prove that this happened? Ah....they can't...they merely have belief, faith that it did happen. With no proof that the Bible is correct and no proof that the Bing Bang theory is correct and they consider the Bible religion...then evolution is a religion.

The Bing Bang theory says that everything was spinning and it collected all this matter and such (yet it contradicts itself by saying nothing came together with nothing) and got extremely hot and exploded and created all the planets stars and such. Now, take 5 kids and put them a merry go round and spin them until they fall off, when you get it spinning fast enough they'll fly off and spin the same direction they were going.....if the Big Bang theory is correct why does Jupiter have moons that spin backwards? Why do other plants orbit the wrong way?

Scientists say the earth is moving away from the sun at a rate of 1.2 feet a month, if the earth was billion and billion of years old then that would put the Earth damn near up against the Sun.

Science said a few years ago that the earth may have had a "water canopy" surrounding it at one point in time.....the Bible tells us this in the beginning in Genesis!!!!

Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven.

Firmament - from the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the Hebrew raki'a. This word means simply "expansion." It denotes the space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who rendered raki'a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular, and hence we read of the sun rising and setting, and also here the use of this particular word. It is plain that it was used to denote solidity as well as expansion. It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below (Gen. 1:7). The raki'a supported the upper reservoir (Ps. 148:4). It was the support also of the heavenly bodies (Gen. 1:14), and is spoken of as having "windows" and "doors" (Gen. 7:11; Isa. 24:18; Mal. 3:10) through which the rain and snow might descend.

Several years back one of the world most gifted research scientists set out to disprove any possibility of there being a higher power. After years of research his conclusion was there HAS to be someone pulling the strings. There's things in nature we understand but simply cannot explain. An example in his words: "a microscopic sperm fertilizing an egg and creating a fully functional human being such as you and I is about as likely as a windstorm blowing into a junkyard and assembling a ready to fly F-16. Possible? Yes. Likely? No---yet healthy gifted people are born every day.

Just a few things!!! lol


excellent post! i agree with u 100%

[Ralph]

I cant wait till evelution is proved. Lmfao

As for who sets right and wrong? Its instinct. I dont see any other species going to church everyday. Majority of them dont go around killing eachother randomly.

And your gonna say "Im not an animal, how dare you compare us to animals!!!"

Well, they breed like us, dolphins have sex for joy like us(premarital:eek2: ) and just about anything else is alot like us. I have witnessed animals show true love, sadness etc. They are quite similar.

I dont try to impose my views on others. But when there is an argument and see something i dont agree with im gonna comment on it.

If god gave us our consciences and the views of "right and wrong" then why are so many people not believing it anymore?

Once again, im not religous(dont go to church and dont pray). On my own ive gotten my own beliefs. Short example. I think it would take me a while to shoot and animal and i would feel like **** after. Acording to religion, How could i possibly feel bad if god never set that standard. (There is many religious hunters).

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by Ralph
I cant wait till evelution is proved. Lmfao

As for who sets right and wrong? Its instinct. I dont see any other species going to church everyday. Majority of them dont go around killing eachother randomly.

And your gonna say "Im not an animal, how dare you compare us to animals!!!"

Well, they breed like us, dolphins have sex for joy like us(premarital:eek2: ) and just about anything else is alot like us. I have witnessed animals show true love, sadness etc. They are quite similar.

I dont try to impose my views on others. But when there is an argument and see something i dont agree with im gonna comment on it.

If god gave us our consciences and the views of "right and wrong" then why are so many people not believing it anymore?

Once again, im not religous(dont go to church and dont pray). On my own ive gotten my own beliefs. Short example. I think it would take me a while to shoot and animal and i would feel like **** after. Acording to religion, How could i possibly feel bad if god never set that standard. (There is many religious hunters).

Very well said.

[CDCHONDAS]

uh the animals were provided for food, domestic or not ex(cows or deer)

[PeeWee21]

Evolution will never be proven....not in this generation nor the one after or even after that. If the Bible is true, then upon Jesus' return everyone will know the truth....or in death....it will prove the afterlife, or it won't. One day we'll all find out. I don't mind debating, it's good for both views, i do however dislike ARGUEING about it. Keeping it civil is best for both parties!

[Ralph]

Also, Question to the more Religious Group:

Would you say that a a wiener dog, poodle, and a chiwawa are all related in some way?

Would you say that a monkey, a chimpanzee and a baboon are related. If not, why.

And a third just for fun, why do snakes and whales have hip bones.

Please respond with your answers

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Evolution will never be proven....not in this generation nor the one after or even after that. If the Bible is true, then upon Jesus' return everyone will know the truth....or in death....it will prove the afterlife, or it won't. One day we'll all find out. I don't mind debating, it's good for both views, i do however dislike ARGUEING about it. Keeping it civil is best for both parties!

I completely agree. Evolution isn't like solving a math problem where 2+2=4, it will take time. Debating is fun, takes up a lot of time since I'm at work extremely bored, and as long as it's kept civil is fun to read.

But if the god/bible is real, why in the world would he let them make yamaha blasters?? :D

[Ralph]

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
uh the animals were provided for food, domestic or not ex(cows or deer)

so why would i feel bad if i shot a deer? Did god accidentaly give me the wrong beliefs? OR was i raised different than you getting a different belief on the subject from my parents and enviorment?

[PeeWee21]

I hear alot of people say God created my kid or something along those lines....here is where i get alot of odd and disturbing looks...God created 2 people per the Bible....he created no one else. Everyone else decscended from Adam and Eve. I make alot of people angry but he says it himself in Genesis.

I do agree beliefs are passed down strictly from parents, friends, influences and so forth. God simply provided guidelines that he would like for us to follow and what he knows is good in his eyes. Free will is what the deciding factor is.

chiwawa, poodles, wolves, dogs are all "canines"...yes they are related but "adapted" differently. Same with monkeys, baboons and chimps....all the same family that "adapted" differently. I'm clueless about the snake and whale though....time for some research!!! lol

Adaptation and Evolution get confused with each other very easily.

[PeeWee21]

LOL Ralph....you just helped disprove evolution somewhat....what are the chances of all the animals and humans sharing the same type of feelings and actions if we evolved from a single celled organism? :D

[Ralph]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
LOL Ralph....you just helped disprove evolution somewhat....what are the chances of all the animals and humans sharing the same type of feelings and actions if we evolved from a single celled organism? :D

but animals dont go to church, give the church its "Money", read the bible, or anything of those sorts. Its not hard to see whats right and wrong.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
I hear alot of people say God created my kid or something along those lines....here is where i get alot of odd and disturbing looks...God created 2 people per the Bible....he created no one else. Everyone else decscended from Adam and Eve. I make alot of people angry but he says it himself in Genesis.

I do agree beliefs are passed down strictly from parents, friends, influences and so forth. God simply provided guidelines that he would like for us to follow and what he knows is good in his eyes. Free will is what the deciding factor is.

chiwawa, poodles, wolves, dogs are all "canines"...yes they are related but "adapted" differently. Same with monkeys, baboons and chimps....all the same family that "adapted" differently. I'm clueless about the snake and whale though....time for some research!!! lol

Adaptation and Evolution get confused with each other very easily.

So quick question, if we did descend from Adam and Eve, then how do you attribute non-mutations on genes? As well all know people with the same genetic code producing an offspring will have terrible problems.

Evolution is exactly that a form of adaptation. Survival of the fittest, when a particular trait was not suitable, over time the animal evolved/adapted to it's surroundings for better fit.

So how do you explain the tailbone? It is called a tailbone for a reason.

[CDCHONDAS]

Originally posted by Ralph
so why would i feel bad if i shot a deer? Did god accidentaly give me the wrong beliefs? OR was i raised different than you getting a different belief on the subject from my parents and enviorment?

some of that is how you are raised some of that is you as an individual. It also would come down to what you think of the animal, forsay a mouse is a pest, do you cry when one gets in a trap. more than likely not, but if your dog got hit by a car you might. see my drift...

[PismoLocal]

If we all came from adam and eve that would mean that they and there children were incestual and we are all products of incest. lol

[Ralph]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
chiwawa, poodles, wolves, dogs are all "canines"...yes they are related but "adapted" differently. Same with monkeys, baboons and chimps....all the same family that "adapted" differently. I'm clueless about the snake and whale though....time for some research!!! lol

Ok, so all canines are all related but show different characteristics. Poodles are known to be more Inteligent, chiwawas are dumb and loud:p.

Chimpz, baboons, monkeys: Baboons and monkeys have tails. Chimps dont. So they are related but your telling me one doesnt have a tail? What happend?

Snakes and whales have hip bones. They dont need them. Could they have evolved from something else and didnt evolvee all the way not loosing their hip bones after possible loosing their legs like the chimps who didnt need their tails anymore and lost them but still have a tailbone?

So there is three simple examples of adaptation and evolution. If one can happen can three? Could something loose its tail, become or be more inteligent, and have other organs and characteristics that didnt fully go away yet?


Why do you have molars, an appendix and a tail bone? You dont need them.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by Ralph
Ok, so all canines are all related but show different characteristics. Poodles are known to be more Inteligent, chiwawas are dumb and loud:p.

Chimpz, baboons, monkeys: Baboons and monkeys have tails. Chimps dont. So they are related but your telling me one doesnt have a tail? What happend?

Snakes and whales have hip bones. They dont need them. Could they have evolved from something else and didnt evolvee all the way not loosing their hip bones yet unlike like the chimps who didnt need their tails anymore and lost them?

So there is three simple examples of adaptation and evolution. If one can happen can three? Could something loose its tail, become or be more inteligent, and have other organs and characteristics that didnt fully go away yet?

Why do you have molars, an appendix and a tail bone? You dont need them.

EXACTLY! Great minds think alike.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
If we all came from adam and eve that would mean that they and there children were incestual and we are all products of incest. lol

Ewww! Thats what I just said lol. A certain movie comes to mind, the Hills Have Eyes. :eek:

[PeeWee21]

Evolution is defined as: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

That IS NOT adaptation, when you adapt to something you do not completely change.

In the beginning everything thing was perfect...higher oxygen levels, no disease....yet over time and more people roaming the earth, that's where genetics got screwed up...the more people, the different genetics and then the combination of those genetics. There are so many factors that can screw up genetics, there are more cases of people with different genetics having handicapped offspring than there is that of those with the same genetics.

Your tail bone question is irrellevant....who decided it was a "tailbone".....the Bible referred to it as you buttocks...science labeled it as a tail bone presuming at one point in time that it had a tail....yet no concrete fact has ever proven we ever had a tail!

[Ralph]

And i think evolution and adaptation are very closely related. When something adapts enough it is considered evolution.


As far as adam and eve making all of humanity. That IS incest and according to the bible incest is wrong. hmmm.

I want somebody to try to start a group of 15 people via incest without ending up with 9 deformed beings.

[Chin_Chilla]

How many children did Adam and Eve have? The Bible does not give us a specific number. Adam and Eve had Cain (Genesis 4:1), Abel (Genesis 4:2), Seth (Genesis 4:25), and many other sons and daughters (Genesis 5:4). With likely hundreds of years of child-bearing capability, Adam and Eve likely had 50+ children in their lifetime. Does this mean that they were all incest? Wouldn't they eventually all just die? My friend had a male and female boxer and mated them together and had babys and so on... He left them all together and then they all mated soon they all died, even the new babys. Wouldn't this happen to people also? And if God did make the kids "perfect" you would say, then why does he not make present time incest babys "perfect". I don't get it. Someone please explain.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Evolution is defined as: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

That IS NOT adaptation, when you adapt to something you do not completely change.


I see it differently. a GRADUAL process in which something CHANGES into a different and usualy more complex or better form.

Gradual, slowly over time. Changes: Adaptions.

Many small ADAPTIONS over time that end up making the species more complex OR BETTER in its new enviorment.

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by Ralph
As far as adam and eve making all of humanity. That IS incest and according to the bible incest is wrong. hmmm.

I am by all means 100% Christian, but I never understood this.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Evolution is defined as: A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

That IS NOT adaptation, when you adapt to something you do not completely change.

In the beginning everything thing was perfect...higher oxygen levels, no disease....yet over time and more people roaming the earth, that's where genetics got screwed up...the more people, the different genetics and then the combination of those genetics. There are so many factors that can screw up genetics, there are more cases of people with different genetics having handicapped offspring than there is that of those with the same genetics.

Your tail bone question is irrellevant....who decided it was a "tailbone".....the Bible referred to it as you buttocks...science labeled it as a tail bone presuming at one point in time that it had a tail....yet no concrete fact has ever proven we ever had a tail!

On the contrar adaptation can be defined as "an evolutionary change such as those caused by selection pressures on some attribute of a trait that helps the organism cope with a changing environment over the generations."

I didn't say that other things can't mutate genes/genetics, but if we are said ancestors of Adam and Even science PROVES the chance of a mutation is great and a slim chance of survival of said offspring.

Okay tailbone aside, explain molars and appendix as Ralph said, what purpose to they serve?

[Ralph]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Your tail bone question is irrellevant....who decided it was a "tailbone".....the Bible referred to it as you buttocks...science labeled it as a tail bone presuming at one point in time that it had a tail....yet no concrete fact has ever proven we ever had a tail!

So we agreed through adaption cimps used to have tails. here is a chimp skeleton. http://www.boneroom.com/casts/images_bc/primate_chimpskeldisartic.jpg

There is something inbetween its hips.

Now, off of that same structure, which we also have, on this baboon a tail stems off.
http://www.nature-wildlife.com/baboonjv.jpg

I think its pretty safe to say its the foundation to a tail

[PeeWee21]

In that case....if we evolved from an ape then where is everything? Your confusing Evolution with Adaptation. If what you say is true.....where is all the evidence that PROVES evolution and just does'nt SUPPORT it??????? Your wrong.....i know your gonna take this the wrong way but frankly it's the truth....where in the Beginning does it say that Incest is wrong? When the he created the world incest DID NOT exist, he did'nt create it to turn out like it is, things were perfect back then....that's a man made word, not a God made word. As for your taking 15 relatives and not screwing up any offspring......put an ape in a 2 story home and see if it learns to read recipe's, cook, clean, pay bills and understand what's happening on tv.....it won't and never will.

[PismoLocal]

Incest is just a label we put on the act. The act on mother and son/ father and daughter/brother and sister producing offspring is the same back then as it is today. Incest is the label we gave it.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
In that case....if we evolved from an ape then where is everything? Your confusing Evolution with Adaptation. If what you say is true.....where is all the evidence that PROVES evolution and just does'nt SUPPORT it??????? Your wrong.....i know your gonna take this the wrong way but frankly it's the truth....where in the Beginning does it say that Incest is wrong? When the he created the world incest DID NOT exist, he did'nt create it to turn out like it is, things were perfect back then....that's a man made word, not a God made word. As for your taking 15 relatives and not screwing up any offspring......put an ape in a 2 story home and see if it learns to read recipe's, cook, clean, pay bills and understand what's happening on tv.....it won't and never will.

I'm sorry I just find this amusing, so we're an experiment/pet gone wrong? It was perfect, but we f'ed it up? You seem to forget that these home savvy thing are LEARNED. It's not like a caveman woke up one morning and said well today I'm gonna make a cake.

Read my definition of adaptation. Incest has always been around, and for that reason, why it isn't common, because we as human's would not exisit.

I agree, let's keep this civil. :)

[Ralph]

Now, i really wanna keep this a friendly debate.

I respect others decisions to follow whatever they want and i expect to be treated the same.

Question my views and ill question yours. I think it is very ignorant to say evolution is impossible when someones own beliefs have just as many holes, and to me more.

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
As for your taking 15 relatives and not screwing up any offspring......put an ape in a 2 story home and see if it learns to read recipe's, cook, clean, pay bills and understand what's happening on tv.....it won't and never will.
If you give them millions of years of producing offspring they just might.;)

I actually don't have any beliefs right now I was raised lutheran for the first 15 years of my life, heck I even sang in the church chior from the time I was 6 til I was 12 but as I get older I get more and more confused about all this stuff.

[PeeWee21]

Using your own words..."it's pretty safe to say"...not 100% truth, it had a tail, this proves and yada yada....as i said....they are from the same "family".....you came from your mother so something about your features either resembles your mom or your dad or maybe even both....ahhhh....that's "family"...hmmmm...go figure. I have the same color hair as my aunt....hmmm...family maybe? lol

As i stated....we have all this technology, we can people people on other planets, talk to someone half way around the world in the blink of an eye, fly with out wings, drive 100mph while setting down....and ABSOLUTELY NO ONE can find, can prove anything definitive that we came from slime in a pond? Yet it is easy to believe that we crawled out of a pond 300 million years ago and it's sooooooooo hard to believe a loving entity created us into existance.....there is no wonder this world is falling apart! lol

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Using your own words..."it's pretty safe to say"...not 100% truth, it had a tail, this proves and yada yada....as i said....they are from the same "family".....you came from your mother so something about your features either resembles your mom or your dad or maybe even both....ahhhh....that's "family"...hmmmm...go figure. I have the same color hair as my aunt....hmmm...family maybe? lol

As i stated....we have all this technology, we can people people on other planets, talk to someone half way around the world in the blink of an eye, fly with out wings, drive 100mph while setting down....and ABSOLUTELY NO ONE can find, can prove anything definitive that we came from slime in a pond? Yet it is easy to believe that we crawled out of a pond 300 million years ago and it's sooooooooo hard to believe a loving entity created us into existance.....there is no wonder this world is falling apart! lol

Slime comes out of my nose? Coincidence I think so. lol

Well the fact that it did happen over the course of 300 million years might have something to do with it. Considering the technological advances have recently happened within the past 100.

It's extremely hard to believe that some random being created us. What are we then? An experiment? Same is true for religion show me un-disputed evidence that said being exists. But most just "know he/she" is there.

[PismoLocal]

One of my religous buddies told me that we are gods fish in his fish tank. lol

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
One of my religous buddies told me that we are gods fish in his fish tank. lol

So I wonder if thats why I wreck so much, he's tapping on the glass!

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by fandl450r
So I wonder if thats why I wreck so much, he's tapping on the glass!
LMAO, probably!

[PeeWee21]

Originally posted by fandl450r
I'm sorry I just find this amusing, so we're an experiment/pet gone wrong? It was perfect, but we f'ed it up? You seem to forget that these home savvy thing are LEARNED. It's not like a caveman woke up one morning and said well today I'm gonna make a cake.

Read my definition of adaptation. Incest has always been around, and for that reason, why it isn't common, because we as human's would not exisit.

I agree, let's keep this civil. :)

Unfortunately...yep, we screwed it up! Plain and simple.

Hmmm....how long have we been training apes and chimpanzees in labs now? The progress is at a standstill.....but they're learning right? after 60 years i would think we'd be further along since they are being "taught" and not learning it on they're own.

It's funny it took us 300 million years to really accelerate our knowledge the past 100 years....i'd say we have'nt been here as long as you think we have.

You have scientists cloning people....yet...someone creating us in the beginning is'nt feasible? Those scientists are creating people...but that is feasible? Hmmm....odd?

[Flynbryan19]

I think the key point here is that though we can not prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that God is real, neither can anyone prove with 100% accuracy that Evolution is correct. Yes it all comes down to belief and FAITH. Whether your faith is in the Lord or not is your preference and your belief alone. I just personally feel that my belief is correct. Take it or leave it. Like it or Lump it. :D

[XCAdam89]

I'm a christian.

Religion is a complex subject in which really shouldn't be argued over the net for several reasons. Christianity, at first, takes faith to believe in, but throughout my life I have I've learned more about it.

I'm taking a class at school right now, Apologetics. (The study of defending your faith) and it brings up numerous arguments against evolution. I'm not bashing anyone's beliefs, but theres a few items in evolution I don't understand completely.

For Example, in "The Cosmological Case" this brings up the issue of Cause and Effect in Christianity.

"Because the Universe exists, there must be an explanation-cause for its existence. And since no effect can be greater than its' cause, That greater cause must be God. He is the First Cause!"

Second, there is the Teleological Cause, dealing with design and order.
"The teleological arguement points out that such design and order as found in the universe today cannot be the product of random processes and chance. Rather, these characteristics indicate an intelligent being as the cause."

For example, take marbles on a gym floor. If you climb up on a balcony and dump a bag of marbles, are they going to fall in a specified order? of course not! The marbles will fall in complete chaos, just like the world without a designer. Every design has to have a designer!

Also, believing in the existence of God is something like believing in a scientific theory. Even though it cannot be directly tested, as many scientific theories cannot be, there is plenty of data which indirectly confirm it. For Example, Air. Can you see it? But does it exist?

For those who say the world is millions of years old, let's look at some clues for an early creation date:
1. Population Statistics: If man appeared over 1 Million years ago, the present world population would be thousands of times greater than it actually is.
2. The amount of Helium 4 in the atmosphere. This suggests out atmosphere is less than 15,000 Years old.
3. The absence of meteorite dust. Some 15 million tons of nickel meteorite dust settles to the earth each year. If the earth indeed existed for 5 Billion years, there would be a layer of this dust at least 200 ft thick over the entire planet.

Just a few examples, I'm not perfect, but this stuff just makes sense.

[PeeWee21]

I agree Bryan...i'm just trying to show that there is as much to support God as there is to support Evolution!

[CDCHONDAS]

my question there are humans and apes, if your evolution is currently still at work as yall say and assuming they are still evolving, shouldnt there be some apes that are almost human, maybe can talk but arent smart enough to build a society, i mean there should be some medium ground. ex. i hold a hair dryer on one end of a mud puddle, one end of the puddle dries, one end stays mud because of the heat difference. well the area that dried is dirt and came from mud, however the middle is not quite solid but cant be called mud...

[Chin_Chilla]

Where did Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons come from?

[CDCHONDAS]

photoshop lol

[Chin_Chilla]

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
photoshop lol LMAO

[CDCHONDAS]

lol u see what i meant tho

[PeeWee21]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
We have those apes still they are the ones that look human but can't hold a job, stare you down like they want to fight when your minding your own business, put 22" wheels on there quads, commit violent acts of crime, suck at driving, procreate with there own family members and the list goes on lol.

Oh my...that was harsh!:eek2: That just got this thread closed!

[Chin_Chilla]

When were Adam and Eve created? If Old Testament history and the ages in Genesis chapter 5 are traced, Adam and Eve were likely created in approximately 4000 B.C. Mummy (http://dmla.clan.lib.nv.us/docs/museums/cc/mummy.htm) found in Spirit Cave, Nevada, in 1940. Recent radio carbon testing indicates the remains are 9,415 years old, making this the oldest mummy found in North America.

This just doesn't make sence. If God created Adam and Eve 4000 BC, and they were supposedly the first humans ever created, then how are we finding mummy's that are 3 to 4 times older than that?!?! :eek2:

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Oh my...that was harsh!:eek2: That just got this thread closed!
I erased it.

[Chin_Chilla]

Originally posted by Chin_Chilla
Mummy (http://dmla.clan.lib.nv.us/docs/museums/cc/mummy.htm) found in Spirit Cave, Nevada, in 1940. Recent radio carbon testing indicates the remains are 9,415 years old, making this the oldest mummy found in North America.

This just doesn't make sence. If God created Adam and Eve 4000 BC, and they were supposedly the first humans ever created, then how are we finding mummy's that are 3 to 4 times older than that?!?! :eek2: This mummy (http://www.archaeology.org/9609/newsbriefs/nevada.html) from 7422 BC ... :eek2: :rolleyes:

[PeeWee21]

As stated above...Carbon 14 dating is not accurate all the time. It's never been proven to be 100% accurate so that mandates it as a theory as well. The Bible does not give an exact time or age the earth was created...it simply says that a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to God....there is no definitive answer, but i do not believe the earth is millions and millions of years old.

[fandl450r]

So pretty much they have an escape clause in the bible? Because there is no definitive date mentioned?

It may not be accurate to a T but it's more accurate than some theories I've read about.

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
The Bible does not give an exact time or age the earth was created...it simply says that a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to God....there is no definitive answer, but i do not believe the earth is millions and millions of years old.
What verse's say that in the bible?

[Ralph]

One of the big factors making me not believe in All religions is that they just have so many things working against them. Evolution does not.

There are several reasons why someone would want to make up religion. Power, Money, Control. And those 3 things are human nature.

Imaging being a king back in the days. All of your people are miserable. They have barely any food. They are full of sickness and disease. They have literally no potential to better their lives.

So, would it not be in your best interest to make these people believe in religion?

With religion. They wont just kill themselves. Their lives are still meaningless but they are told if they are good everything will be grand once they pass on. It will also give you control the people. Stealing is bad, killing is bad. This helps eliminate crime and any threat to yourself. Then there is power and money. The people have to contribute and pay to be in the church and be saved.

This is religion in my eyes on a small scale. This is what i was taught in history. Thats what life was like and it was right when religion really started to grow. Large empires with few rich men and many poor peasants. But the rich leaders knew that they were only as powerfull as the people they had control over.

Its things like that that make me reject religion. The greed of man.

[CDCHONDAS]

to be in a straight shooting church you do not need to pay, or contribute. those things SHOULD be conviction based, however there are some crooked churches that would make you believe so

[PeeWee21]

Passage 2 Peter 3:8:

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

How do you consider it an escape clause? Because there is no definitive answer? You don't have a difinitive answer to Evolution yet you have no problem believing it. I find that odd.....

[PeeWee21]

Your talking about muslims, jihads and such. Yes, even Christian kings were corrupt but Christianity has NEVER said kill yourself and an infidel and you'll be garanteed a spot in heaven but some kings were not...King David and King Solomon...they stand out the most because they were not tyrants and lived closely to God....did they screw up? Yep they did, but they also showed God's presence in the acts that they did.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Passage 2 Peter 3:8:

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

How do you consider it an escape clause? Because there is no definitive answer? You don't have a difinitive answer to Evolution yet you have no problem believing it. I find that odd.....

Because of the simple fact that its saying oh between 1 and a million this happened. I realize that evolution has no definitnitve time period, but science somewhat backs up the evolution time frame, more so than the bible.

I find it odd, that some random being just said, well **** lets throw some of this throw some that, call it good, and if they f up oh well. Similiar to a mean kid on a ant hill.

[bwamos]

I don't have enough faith to beleive in Darwanian Evolution. Especially since he had disproven his own theory. ;) Read his writings.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by bwamos
I don't have enough faith to beleive in Darwanian Evolution. Especially since he had disproven his own theory. ;) Read his writings.

It's also hard for me to have faith that we are the offspring of incest.

[Scro]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
As stated above...Carbon 14 dating is not accurate all the time. It's never been proven to be 100% accurate so that mandates it as a theory as well. The Bible does not give an exact time or age the earth was created...it simply says that a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to God....there is no definitive answer, but i do not believe the earth is millions and millions of years old.

How long do you think it took South America to separate from Africa at a rate of 3 cm's per year, or any of the continents for that matter?

[Ralph]

To me the bible seems like a refined version of Greek Gods.

Zeus will stike you down if you do bad.
Respect the Ocean because poseidon is watching.
ETC.

They are all just methods of controlling people and creating a basis to right and wrong. But these rights and wrong were written by men. I think religion had a lot do with us being a great civilization these days. But i think people are starting to know how to think for themselves and religion is on its way out.

I believe in science. Altough some form of evolution has not yet been proven. Scientific methods are prooven everyday. Look around you. The reason we have advanced so much is because of a few key inventions that almost acted like multipliers. The internet and computers for example. This has enabled us to have access to so much more info. Computeres enabled us to calculate things which would have taken years before. This is why we are advancing so fast now. Not becasue the earth is only 15 thousand years old.

This is becoming very time consuming so im gonna sit back and let you guys do the talking. I have an economics final at 8.

On thing about how people say they dont believe in evolution because the chances are so low. Why do you think we havent found life anywhere else yet. Cause it takes a very unique enviorment.

Try to look ahead. If you had shown a plasma tv, cell phone, or anything else we have today to someone 100 years ago they would have said we were witches or the devil and burned us.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Scro
How long do you think it took South America to separate from Africa at a rate of 3 cm's per year, or any of the continents for that matter?


Thats a very good point although they will probably not believe that all continents were once one giant continent.:rolleyes:

I dont believe in puzzles either.
http://www.earth.northwestern.edu/people/seth/107/Ptdev/Image85.gif

Once again. maybe this isnt proven. but it makes sense. If you see a 10 pieces from a broken plate on the floor is it wrong to assume it was once a whole plate?

If you said yeah, what about when the picture on the plate matches up when you reasemble it.

[CDCHONDAS]

they cut off half of mexico

[PismoLocal]

Any body that wants to know what he is talking about google "techtonic plates" and "Mid-Ocean ridge" there is a lot of info. The mid ocean ridge and Sea floor spreading is proven. Its not some theory.

[rrguy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ralph
[B]One of the big factors making me not believe in All religions is that they just have so many things working against them. Evolution does not.



Evolution has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese. They are called missing links. Those who cannot have faith In God yet believe what scientist come up with have formed thier own religion. Cause you are beliving information you cannot see. I would much rather trust God than people who get paid to develop a theory & prove it correct? Carbon dating If you understood how it works you would not be so quick to believe it. Earth Millions of years old. Well scientist prove them selves wrong again. If you take thier calcualtions of the rate the Sun is burning & what they calculate what it weighs, then figure a million years ago it would be so big it would have burnt the earth to a crisp. It s gravity & so much else would be so different our current solar system would be way out of wack. There a thousands of things people can't explain like how life got started. The ark is hard to believe, how could all these different breeds of animals & race of people come from one set? Even though DNA shows say all dogs came from a common breed, yeah thats why Dogs are all considered on breed. But nonchristians find no problem believing we all came from the same micro organism?

[Scro]

Originally posted by rrguy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ralph
[B]One of the big factors making me not believe in All religions is that they just have so many things working against them. Evolution does not.



Evolution has more holes than a piece of swiss cheese. They are called missing links. Those who cannot have faith In God yet believe what scientist come up with have formed thier own religion. Cause you are beliving information you cannot see. I would much rather trust God than people who get paid to develop a theory & prove it correct? Carbon dating If you understood how it works you would not be so quick to believe it. Earth Millions of years old. Well scientist prove them selves wrong again

How did scientist prove themselves wrong about the earth's age?

[XCAdam89]

Originally posted by Ralph


I believe in science. Altough some form of evolution has not yet been proven. Scientific methods are prooven everyday. Look around you. The reason we have advanced so much is because of a few key inventions that almost acted like multipliers. The internet and computers for example. This has enabled us to have access to so much more info. Computeres enabled us to calculate things which would have taken years before. This is why we are advancing so fast now. Not becasue the earth is only 15 thousand years old.

This is becoming very time consuming so im gonna sit back and let you guys do the talking. I have an economics final at 8.

On thing about how people say they dont believe in evolution because the chances are so low. Why do you think we havent found life anywhere else yet. Cause it takes a very unique enviorment.

Try to look ahead. If you had shown a plasma tv, cell phone, or anything else we have today to someone 100 years ago they would have said we were witches or the devil and burned us.

Believing in the existence of God is something like believing in a scientific theory. Even though it cannot be directly tested, as many scientific theories cannot be, there is plenty of data which indirectly confirm it. For Example, Air. Can you see it? But does it exist?

[rrguy]

^^^exactly^^ Some can have faith cause we read it in a science book, yet can't have faith in God cause its too complicated? Yet its one thing that can't be proven wrong.

Scientist prove themselves wrong about the earth's age? & lots of things. I find science very interesting yet I don't become consumed & think I have to come up with an answer for everything & push God out. Besides this, also what I added up above I would have to write a book. I had the same questions. Every theory had holes in it. There are many scientist that can agree with creation & others who try to come up with an idea that makes no sense yet stick with it cause they choose to not accept Creation.

there is a differece between adapting & evolving.

Many scientist will agree if many things like our rotation was different by 1/2 degree we would be goners. So saying we just got lucky makes more sense than believing that a higher power made it possible?

If you take thier calcualtions of the rate the Sun is burning & what they calculate what it weighs, then figure a million years ago it would be so big it would have burnt the earth to a crisp. It s gravity & so much else would be so different our current solar system would be way out of wack. There a thousands of things people can't explain like how life got started. The ark is hard to believe, how could all these different breeds of animals & race of people come from one set? Even though DNA shows say all dogs came from a common breed, yeah thats why Dogs are all considered on breed. But nonchristians find no problem believing we all came from the same micro

[rrguy]

This subject has really jumped around.

But for those of you that don't believe Chrisitanity makes sense, I would like to ask the first time you had a hard question in school did you just say this does not make sense & assume nothing else would? Probaly not you found an answer & or found the right person for help. Well ok maybey some did not & thats your problem! But you don't ask someone like me who is not completely knowledgeable on Christianity. Yet when some average christian can not expalin every question to some its proof its not real!


There are millions of myths. One is that if you are Christian you don't have a free will? God gave us all a free will to choose as we please. There are thousands of churches & detonations. Why, cause people like to do what makes sense & if they don't understand what the true church teaches then they go start up a new one. Soon that is no longer God's church but a man's church that believes in BS, like we do not have a free will, or that we should kill those who do not agree with us. It is just as easy to misinturpt the bible as it is for a common person to understand it.

[Ralph]

I Understand how carbon dating works. It utilizes carbon 14's extremely long half life. then find out how many times its halved in simple terms. How many times it halved * the time of one half life.

And im sorry but the air thing is the dumbest thing yet. You can compress air, take it in ur lungs. It even has weight. Take some air in ur lungs. fill up the bathtup with water and blow out. see the air? remember to resurface.

Thats like saying the same thing about glass since u can see through it.

Im saying i dont like the money power and control that has influenced religion. I dont like how there is so much room for someone to manipulate it, and thats why i dont believe.

I also believe people are pretty much brainwashed through religion. From the minute they can talk they are taught to believe in santa so they are nice and controlled.(Sounds similar, if your bad your screwed). Fair enough, i dont think christmas is bad. I like christmas.

But once they are old enough to understand the concept of jesus and god parents throw out santa and replace him with god. Once again. Hes always watching, you gotta be nice or else you dont get rewarded.

I think thats why christmas was concieved. To start building the concept and build the foundation to the greatest tool of control.
----------------------------------Sorry if i offended you--------------------


The other thing. Evolution has to do with things around us right now. That we can feel, touch and study now. It is a theory based on physical evidence that is around and has been around as far as we know.

The bible and word of mouth, pretty much the only source of religion. A book written by man for man. Nothing else to study or analyze.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question about the bible. Can someone explain to me the deal with the new and old testament? Im interested to know why it was changed or revised or whatever they did.

[nickmelll]

thats it im starting my own religion... who wants to join ? we will worship the playdough

[rrguy]

Yes but for carbon dating to work the environment & carbon content has had to have been the same all those years, which scientist have claimed it has not been? I can find the name later but they have tested certain items they new where so many years old & carbon dating said it was like 100 times older? So I don't have faith in it.

Saint Nicholas was real, which was turned into a custom & then we added fairy tale rein deer etc...

Unfortunately yes people have used their power in what ever form Money religion etc for wrong purposes. It does not make True Christianity wrong.

Just as we do not understand everything God does. A 2yr old does not understand why he or she should not eat candy for every meal. Jesus also came so that God might understand the temptation we face. He offered to forgive us for what we do wrong. Considering you have caring parents. If it doesn't make sense to thank your parents for what they did, then it won't make sense to want to thank God for what he has done. Christianity can not be forced, there have been far more attempts by Greedy rulers to force it out. Just like some kids obey their parents & others don't. Some kids can get a wack & the next day they choose to do whatever they want? So to me doing whatever I want is not always right. Freedom is being able to do what is right, not what we want. That type of thinking only leds to caos.

[rrguy]

I have a question about the bible. Can someone explain to me the deal with the new and old testament? Im interested to know why it was changed or revised or whatever they did. [/B][/QUOTE]


Old testemant was before Jesus came. So the Jews were the one who followed God. Laws were different & strict. They understood the Son of God was coming. There were still pagen religions who worshiped the golden calf, or believed in the frog God etc...

The New Testament was after Jesus came.
Which how Christianity became, Those who believed in Christ.

If I got this right.

Jews today still don't believe Jesus, son of God came to earth yet.

Muslims believe Jesus was a just another prophet.

I DID NOT READ THIS WHOLE THREAD So sorry if what I say is already been said.

To all the people who say evolution is so far fetched. How? IMO evolution is the only thing that makes sense. Over time, one animal evolves into something else,better.
http://sehlhorst.smugmug.com/photos/54218787-M.jpg
how does that not make sense?

And how does this make sense? Some random guy, who is alive before anything was ever created decides to make a universe and he does. WTF? Some guy makes planets, stars, grass, people, everything. How does that make sense, how is he around before anything else.

And if everything was created by one God, why is there a bunch of different religions?

IMO Religion doesn't make sense. This world would be off so much better with out religion. Sooooo many wars were started over religion.

Here's what I think when I hear god created everything...http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid221/p7cc01bcca514679c875354855f855d43/eb87bddd.jpg

[XCAdam89]

^^^ But where did the first organism in Evolution come from? Also, Where are all the transition stages of evolution? Not one intermediate stage of evolution has ever been found. Not 1 in some billions of years evolutionists believe the world has been around is not good odds IMO....

Every belief has to have a first cause, and in Christianity, Jesus is our first cause. He created the universe, He was, and will always be.

More on the reliabilty of the Bible, There are 24,765 Manuscripts which can put together all of the New Testament except for 7 verses. Plus, to understand how carefully the Bible was translated you have to get into Ancient scribes. These scribes wrote one letter at a time, checking constantly, and if there was more than 3 errors per page, they tossed the entire page to ensure a near perfect translation.

Christianity just makes a ton of sense to me, and I've seen it change many peoples lives for the better...

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by nofearrider1
I DID NOT READ THIS WHOLE THREAD So sorry if what I say is already been said.

To all the people who say evolution is so far fetched. How? IMO evolution is the only thing that makes sense. Over time, one animal evolves into something else,better.
http://sehlhorst.smugmug.com/photos/54218787-M.jpg
how does that not make sense?

And how does this make sense? Some random guy, who is alive before anything was ever created decides to make a universe and he does. WTF? Some guy makes planets, stars, grass, people, everything. How does that make sense, how is he around before anything else.

And if everything was created by one God, why is there a bunch of different religions?

IMO Religion doesn't make sense. This world would be off so much better with out religion. Sooooo many wars were started over religion.

Here's what I think when I hear god created everything...http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid221/p7cc01bcca514679c875354855f855d43/eb87bddd.jpg

What's life worth living if you believe in nothing?

By the way, most of the things said in science is a theory or guess. Big Bang is a theory, God is a theory in a way. Have we seen both? No. Faith comes into play. Believe in what you want, but don't forget there is a fine line between fact and theory in the science field.

[Ralph]

I dont agree that the world would be better off without religion. If we didnt fight wars over one thing we would be fighting over another.

It is true though that probably 90% of wars are over religion. But like i said, if there wasnt religion we would fight over something else.

I have another question. Does the bible talk anything specific, not far fetched similarities, about dinosaurs, prehistoric times?

I guess im crazy but what if a lifeform from another planet came to our planet after the dinosaurs were extinct. They came here and started off another civilization?

Is it really that far fetched? look what we do to extinct species everyday. we go in and do whatever we can to try and save endangered species. Maybe something was trying to recreate earth after and ice age, meteor, or whatever wiped out most of the lifeforms on earth that were destroyed. We havent found many other planets like ours. Maybe something is trying to keep a rare planet like ours going. Hell they could have been from mars, it seems like mars used to be a perfect place for human lifeforms. Either way, whoever they were. It isnt any crazier than religion, and it even kinda ties evolution and religion together.

It makes sense if you think about the ancient civiliztions. The aztec, the egyptians, mayans, and other civilizations all started building pyramids at around the same time period. You guys dont seem to like *Chance*, so whats the chance of 3 civilizations spread across the earth doing such similar things around the same time out of nowhere. They all had concepts of time, calenders and aligned their creations with the stars. The had amazing technology and understanding of math for their time. They made things in patterns that could only be seen from the sky and they obviously didnt have planes or helicopters. Someone had to have helped them. Is this really more far fetched than what religion teaches?

This is the kind of stuff i believe in. Not "There is a god, he made you, he hears ur thoughts, knows ur name, and planned your life" i dont see those things being possible...

Originally posted by XCAdam89
^^^ But where did the first organism in Evolution come from? Also, Where are all the transition stages of evolution? Not one intermediate stage of evolution has ever been found. Not 1 in some billions of years evolutionists believe the world has been around is not good odds IMO....


OK, then where did god come from? He just appeared out of nowhere, got bored, and decided to make everything? That makes a lot of sense....NOT
Seriously tho, how does a guy or w.e god is, come from nothing, just pops up, and makes everything there is?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by nofearrider1
OK, then where did god come from? He just appeared out of nowhere, got bored, and decided to make everything? That makes a lot of sense....NOT
Seriously tho, how does a guy or w.e god is, come from nothing, just pops up, and makes everything there is?:rolleyes:

How does a big bang occur? I mean..it's been a couple billion years...Why hasn't it happened again? :rolleyes:

It is true though that probably 90% of wars are over religion. But like i said, if there wasnt religion we would fight over something else.

Actually that's true. Just like those two southpark episodes. When Cartman is in the future and everyone is atheist. This is no religious wars, but everyone fights about what atheist group is better.

Originally posted by MrMan
How does a big bang occur? I mean..it's been a couple billion years...Why hasn't it happened again? :rolleyes:

How does some guy just pop out of nowhere? Its been a couple billion years, why doesnt he make more planets and living things?

Originally posted by nofearrider1
Actually that's true. Just like those two southpark episodes. When Cartman is in the future and everyone is atheist. This is no religious wars, but everyone fights about what atheist group is better.

I can't remember who told me this but I think this is what will have to be done to end wars.

"Before there is world peace, everyone needs to believe in the same religion."

Originally posted by nofearrider1
How does some guy just pop out of nowhere? Its been a couple billion years, why doesnt he make more planets and living things?

What if our planet is one of the last in the line of planets with living organisms? There's a theory saying Mars could have had water allowing life on the planet.

[XCAdam89]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
OK, then where did god come from? He just appeared out of nowhere, got bored, and decided to make everything? That makes a lot of sense....NOT
Seriously tho, how does a guy or w.e god is, come from nothing, just pops up, and makes everything there is?:rolleyes:

We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.

To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

Also, Here's an athiest view:

The atheist Bertrand Russell wrote in his book "Why I am Not a Christian" that if it is true that all things need a cause then God must also need a cause. He concluded from this that if God needed a cause then God was not God (and if God is not God then of course there is no God). This was basically a slightly more sophisticated form of the childlike question, "Who made God?" Even a child knows that things do not come from nothing, so if God is a "something" then He must have a cause as well, right?

The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, "What does blue smell like?" Blue is not in the category of things that have odor, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created, or come into existence, or are caused. God is uncaused and uncreated - He simply exists.

Originally posted by XCAdam89
We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.

To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

Also, Here's an athiest view:

The atheist Bertrand Russell wrote in his book "Why I am Not a Christian" that if it is true that all things need a cause then God must also need a cause. He concluded from this that if God needed a cause then God was not God (and if God is not God then of course there is no God). This was basically a slightly more sophisticated form of the childlike question, "Who made God?" Even a child knows that things do not come from nothing, so if God is a "something" then He must have a cause as well, right?

The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, "What does blue smell like?" Blue is not in the category of things that have odor, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created, or come into existence, or are caused. God is uncaused and uncreated - He simply exists.

That was deep. :(

What's life worth living if you believe in nothing?

Whats life worth living if you have live your life by a book?
And I believe in evolution, how is that not believing in anything?

[Pappy]

Best theroy of evolution ever posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHimXCJTtqc&mode=related&search=)

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Pappy
Best theroy of evolution ever posted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHimXCJTtqc&mode=related&search=)


pretty much nailed it:blah:

[JOEX]

Does anyone belive in God AND Evolution?

[Ralph]

Originally posted by JOEX
Does anyone belive in God AND Evolution?

Im not totaly against a higher spirit. But i dont believe in religion, the organized belief.

oh btw. Jesus is coming back. he might be a little late for christmas though.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/12/20/dragon_ani.html?category=animals&guid=20061220141500

[coolguy8769]

honestly idk if i beleive in god, i mean i'm kinda at a halfway point, i was rasie Roman Cathlic went to sunday school every day till i was confermed and then stopped going to church cause my parents couldnt make me go anymore.

I did almost 6-7 years of sunday school, and when i finally got confermed i looked back and was like WTF does all of that mean, i personaly thought half of it was BS. I believe in evolution cause that is what i can PERSONALY except as being somewhat true. I have always been very good with science and history and had an amazing ancient History teacher my freshmen year that explained how you can use the bible and evolution together to help fill in the gaps.

IDK if i beleive in an after life or not, i think that there are somethings we will have to find out ourselves through the journey of life.......


this is just coming from a 17 year old though:ermm:

[sly400ex]

The more I learn and try to understand religion, the less believable it becomes to me.

I know it that sounds sad, but thats just the way I feel.

I think religion is sought by man and woman to help comfort their lives in believing that there has to to "more than just this".

Religion brings much good to the world, but it also brings a whole lot of bad.

I just believe you should accept life at face value and live it like that. ......


:)

[F-16Guy]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Screw religion, man. Way too many complications. I just believe in myself. It's possible to be a good human being without having to worship anything or anybody. Anyone who turns religious after NOT being religious obviously had complications in their life which made them ask questions like:

What is life and what is my purpose?

Is there life after death?

What should I do with my life?

"Why?" to almost anything :o


I, not a religious person, will answer these mysterious questions for you all. The truth to all of these questions is as follows...

Life is the outcome of water, organic molecules, sunlight, and *CHANCE*. Maybe even gravity had something to do with it.

Is there life after death?

*******NEWSFLASH********

YOU WILL OR WILL NOT KNOW IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

If there isn't, then, you won't know that you don't know :eek2: Trippy. You'll have to wait and see. Why think about death when you are alive? You should be living! DUH!

What should I do with my life?

WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!

Should you be a good person?

YES! It reflects back to you. Treat others how you want to be treated.

Muslim faith is fackin' retarded.

The only 'crazy' thing I will ever believe in is intelligent life elsewhere. Don't let people fool you, let your eyes to the judging. If you can't see it, how in the fack can it even be real? Where's the proof? If you were "god", would you not want people to know that you're in existence? It would make it a lot easier for people to believe in you. Until we make a time machine to go back to Jesus, or the beginning of time, all questions can be answered with "We don't know, and never will!", so, who cares?

I couldn't agree more. Who really knows??

[PeeWee21]

Ralph....read my earlier posts....there are mentions of dinosaurs in the Bible, but they are called dragons. The word "dinosaur" did'nt come about until the late 1800's. Dragons are mentioned in the Bible numerous times. They say that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago before man walked the earth. Then why may i ask do the ealiest heiroglyphics depicts dinosaurs being hunted, eaten, ridden????? Did the early people just happen to dream them up and accidently paint almost perfect pictures of them??? Possible...yes, but highly unlikely. Don't say they looked at a T-Rex skeleton and then drew on the wall an almost perfect portrait of what it actually looked like! I have never seen one in person but i can draw it.....because i have KNOWLEDGE of it.

Someone said they had a hard time believing we come from "incest" through Adam and Eve....um....what does Evolution teach....we came from a single celled micro organism over millions of years evolution. What, did 500 us just pop out of the mud and the perfect amount of males versus females happen to populate the earth? Science has tried time and time again to prove the possibility we came from slime in a pond. They're theory supports the very "incest" that who ever posted that is sooooo against it. The 1st person formed from evolution must have had both sex organs and had sex with him/her self.....NOW THAT paints a pretty picture in your head does'nt it? The 1st person of Evolution was a Hermaphrodite!!!:D Or did him/her have sex with apes, monkeys and gorilla's??? An even prettier picture. lol

Ralph is somewhat on the right track....Christianity was never destoned to be a "religion"....religion is why so many people have such little faith. God was the higher spirit and the church is merely a "metaphor" for Christs body. It only takes one person to be a church and it can happen anywhere! It was'nt destined to be Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, Baptist, etc....it was supposed to be people that believed and had faith in God. Yes they were told to "fellowship" and learn from each other...not point out who is wrong, tell each other the do's and don't's of following God. If you truly believe in him....he'll show you right from wrong.

Religion is what drives people away from God....religion is more "tradition" than anything....some believe you can't wear jeans and a t-shirt to church....the last time i looked God did not give a dress code for attending church.....out of respect is fine, but to condemn someone else because they are not goes directly against what God stands for. Alot totally hate Christian rock and Heavy metal....i swear i read to rejoice, sing, praise and dance to and for God.....with no guidelines as to how it is done....he looks at you DOING IT and if it's from your heart.....not how your doing it. So much of "religion" is nothing more than "tradition". That's where i think people really dislike religion. In the Bible it says Jesus turned water in wine and drank of it....yet alot of church goer's see someone drink a beer and they automatically say they're sinning....why are they sinning? Unless they're doing it to get into a drunkin' stooper then yes it is a sin, God says to not eat or drink of anything that will pollute your mind....i can drink 4 beers and be completely sober...and i'm drinking them because i'm thirsty and like the tase, not to get drunk.

Try to set down and read the Bible but do it by throwing away all "traditional" beliefs....you'll be surprised at how it was designed and appointed for the good of man....not to condemn them.

[Chin_Chilla]

This guy (http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=theory+of+evolution&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&b=9&oid=d92aaefb8e35e61e&rurl=www.ifilm.com&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fvide o%3Fp%3Dtheory%2Bof%2Bevolution%26prssweb%3DSearch %26ei%3DUTF-8) tries to prove the 'theory of evolution' is wrong and the 'theory of creation' is right, and nearly all the information he gives on the 'theory of creation' is either made up or not true... take a look yourselves...:ermm:

[PeeWee21]

LOL Get the COMPLETE dvd to Dr. Hovinds series and you'll change your tune.....they have edited 60% of it out...i know because i have the entire set. Compare Hovinds FULL seminar to that and you'll see that there was so much that got edited out that proves Evolution more of a farce than Creation. They just skimmed the surface to prove him wrong.....it's funny that scientists from around the globe will NOT debate him on the subjects....and when they do, they get mad and storm off stage because they are proven wrong. It's funny i think!!!!! lol lol

Nothing came together from nothing and formed something.....the last time i checked when you had nothing....well....you literally had nothing!:D

[Chin_Chilla]

I just watched that little video and I don't see the point of him lying and double-talking like he did. Like, 'before the flood all animals ate grass'? That is realistically impossible, without carnivores, they would quickly overpopulate, eat all the available food, and all die...:ermm: I don't think I need to watch the entire set, that little video sums it up.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by Ralph


If god gave us our consciences and the views of "right and wrong" then why are so many people not believing it anymore?

Once again, im not religous(dont go to church and dont pray). On my own ive gotten my own beliefs. Short example. I think it would take me a while to shoot and animal and i would feel like **** after. Acording to religion, How could i possibly feel bad if god never set that standard. (There is many religious hunters).


God also gave people a free will to choose....so most of them just disregard anything he says....

God did set a standard for hunting. he gave man permission and ordained rules to follow regarding what animals were healthy for us to eat and what rn't. he also was the first one to kill an animal after Adam and Eve sinned and He had to make them clothes out of sheep skin.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by Ralph
Also, Question to the more Religious Group:

Would you say that a a wiener dog, poodle, and a chiwawa are all related in some way?

Would you say that a monkey, a chimpanzee and a baboon are related. If not, why.

And a third just for fun, why do snakes and whales have hip bones.

Please respond with your answers


first...i do not know why snakes and whales have hip bones....but, in the beginning Satan used a snake as his tool to temp Eve and God said to the snake "from now on u will crawl on ur belly", so maybe the snake did have legs in the beginning...i dunno....

i would consider all dogs of the same kind, but there r different species of dogs withing that one kind...the same for all apes and such....

that question was like saying..."do u consider mexicans, Americans, africans, brasilians, ect... related in some way?"

the answer would be yes...becuase we r all humans, but there r different species of human IMO...but we r all the same kind of being

[krt400ex]

WOW....look what i began...lol. this debate is very interesting. i missed alot over night...now i don't even know where to come back in....

[rrguy]

If I am not sure if it could be explained any better. Christianity is not something you hear & five minutes later people are like right on I get it! Some people feel if they can't understand it, it must not be true. Yet they teach Evolution in school. Yet never touch Religion they even leave it out of our History classes, so kids don't even hear the real history of our country etc..!!!!


Originally posted by XCAdam89
We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.

To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

Also, Here's an athiest view:

The atheist Bertrand Russell wrote in his book "Why I am Not a Christian" that if it is true that all things need a cause then God must also need a cause. He concluded from this that if God needed a cause then God was not God (and if God is not God then of course there is no God). This was basically a slightly more sophisticated form of the childlike question, "Who made God?" Even a child knows that things do not come from nothing, so if God is a "something" then He must have a cause as well, right?

The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, "What does blue smell like?" Blue is not in the category of things that have odor, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created, or come into existence, or are caused. God is uncaused and uncreated - He simply exists.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by krt400ex
first...i do not know why snakes and whales have hip bones....but, in the beginning Satan used a snake as his tool to temp Eve and God said to the snake "from now on u will crawl on ur belly", so maybe the snake did have legs in the beginning...i dunno....

i would consider all dogs of the same kind, but there r different species of dogs withing that one kind...the same for all apes and such....

that question was like saying..."do u consider mexicans, Americans, africans, brasilians, ect... related in some way?"

the answer would be yes...becuase we r all humans, but there r different species of human IMO...but we r all the same kind of being

I posted this already for someone else but incase you didnt see it.

Ok, so all canines are all related but show different characteristics. Poodles are known to be more Inteligent, chiwawas are dumb and loud.

Chimpz, baboons, monkeys: Baboons and monkeys have tails. Chimps dont. So they are related but your telling me one doesnt have a tail? What happend?

Snakes and whales have hip bones. They dont need them. Could they have evolved from something else and didnt evolvee all the way not loosing their hip bones after possible loosing their legs like the chimps who didnt need their tails anymore and lost them but still have a tailbone?

So there is three simple examples of adaptation and evolution. If one can happen can three? Could something loose its tail, become or be more inteligent, and have other organs and characteristics that didnt fully go away yet?


Why do you have molars, an appendix and a tail bone? You dont need them