Shims

[Martin Blair]

I took the top end apart to do valve clearence and thier is no markings on the shims, so I assume that you just measure them and get some that are the correct size, or should thier be a number stamped in them some were?

I can also compress the valve springs about half an inch with my thumb, just pushing down on them, is this a sign they are weak and need replacing, or should I be able to do this?

[lumi]

Are we talking about comrpessing the intake or the exhaust... and half a in inch!!! or like a quarter? if half an inch i would lookinto changing them... there pretty cheap either exhaust and or intake...


also the shim should have a number stamped on the top...



good luck



-lumi

[ghott]

Stock shims will more than likely have the number worn off.

Buy a micrometer to measure the shim size. Or find a friend that has one. The digital ones work very well.

[Martin Blair]

Yeah i looked all over for a number, Ill get a micrometer. I didint think I should be able to compress the springs, my friends dad owns a shop, so I think Ill call him up and see if he wants to help change them on afternoon. Im looking at the kit from DASA and getting some of thier bronze giudes, and or course new seals. Since its apart might as well send it off for porting and get some new rings.

[lumi]

damn how long havent u shimmed... u bad boy....


:D


what type of valves stock?

yea dont forget to get your seats cut with those new valves... ;) get porting and new stock 3 angle valve seat cut, to go with stock valves or equal.... new seals and guides + springs and porting will put a ncie smile on your face....




-lumi

[cals400ex]

i am not sure if you took the shim out already but the number could be on the bottom of it as well.

[Martin Blair]

yeah, ive been wanting to do some head work, now i have to :). I was thinking about getting those kibble white valves, or stockers, any opinions?

[ghott]

The shims are supposed to be installed with the numbers down. I ran Honda Shims for about 4 weeks, and the numbers were already worn off for the most part...that was using a Hot Cams Stage 2.

Ferrea Intakes, and Kibble white exhaust valves.

Look up Brian @ www.wppracing.com

His guy uses a SREDI machine for valve jobs. He also has Ferrea and KW valves in stock for a great price.

[lumi]

Originally posted by ghott
The shims are supposed to be installed with the numbers down. I ran Honda Shims for about 4 weeks, and the numbers were already worn off for the most part...that was using a Hot Cams Stage 2.

Ferrea Intakes, and Kibble white exhaust valves.

Look up Brian @ www.wppracing.com

His guy uses a SREDI machine for valve jobs. He also has Ferrea and KW valves in stock for a great price.


nothing better than a sredi ,machine... ferrea and Kw are pretty equl imo... even stock is prett good for a 05... any will be fine.. i usually install my shims with the numbers facing up? pretty sure many do it like this...




-lumi

[ghott]

Originally posted by lumi
nothing better than a sredi ,machine... ferrea and Kw are pretty equl imo... even stock is prett good for a 05... any will be fine.. i usually install my shims with the numbers facing up? pretty sure many do it like this...




-lumi

Hmm...maybe I have it backwards...:confused: hehe :macho

[cals400ex]

just for reference, 2 of the numbers on my shims were facing up from the factory and 2 were facing down. i just cant remember if it was the intake facing up or the exhaust facing up and vice versa.

[ghott]

Any idea on why they should be one way vs. the other?

[cals400ex]

i really don't think it matters.... i am wondering if they put them in so that it is least likely for the numbers to wear off?? i just can't remember which way they were.

[lumi]

most engine i have taken apart have them facing up.... my guess to have a good solid seat on the valve stem as possible...i have seen shims cause failures.... hot cams shims in 06 ti intake valves... the material is not fine enough like the oem shims... espeiclaly for the ti intakes on the 06 450r's.... thats why i recommend oem shims for anyone with a 06..




-lumi

[HAVOK]

It should not matter if you can't read the numbers. You should always micrometer the shim that comes out. And then throw it in the garbage after recording the size.

[KrazyKeith]

Originally posted by lumi
most engine i have taken apart have them facing up.... my guess to have a good solid seat on the valve stem as possible...i have seen shims cause failures.... hot cams shims in 06 ti intake valves... the material is not fine enough like the oem shims... espeiclaly for the ti intakes on the 06 450r's.... thats why i recommend oem shims for anyone with a 06..




-lumi
How did these failures occur?? I am just wonderin cause I have Hotcam shims in mine and I'm not a fan of failures so I like to prevent any

[lumi]

let me rephrase if i didnt say this... i wouldnt use the hotcams for the intake side for the 06 because of the titanium valves.... the hotcams shims are made for SS valves... so the shims are dig aorund the valve stem and ruin the valve... can happen qucikly or can happen within sometime... i have seen this failur a couple times... just depends on time of use with the shims...oem shims are forged and the grains are much tighter comapred to hotcams or any other aftermarket company..

if you think about it eveything that comes in contact with the ti valve has to be changed, nothing can be used from a Ti valve to a SS... the the valve seats have to be specifically made to handle the cushion and heat for the ti valve... the spring has to be able to handle the lightweight of the ti valve and the shim has to handle the ti valve aswell....

JMHO

-lumi

[cals400ex]

basically, the stock ones are a harder material than the hotcam shims. i have ran both in my 05 without problems.

[lumi]

unless u got ti valves,, which the 05's dont have, only tyhe 06's should have there shims looked at closely. :D


-lumi

[speedfreaksguy]

Originally posted by lumi
let me rephrase if i didnt say this... i wouldnt use the hotcams for the intake side for the 06 because of the titanium valves.... the hotcams shims are made for SS valves... so the shims are dig aorund the valve stem and ruin the valve... can happen qucikly or can happen within sometime... i have seen this failur a couple times... just depends on time of use with the shims...oem shims are forged and the grains are much tighter comapred to hotcams or any other aftermarket company..

if you think about it eveything that comes in contact with the ti valve has to be changed, nothing can be used from a Ti valve to a SS... the the valve seats have to be specifically made to handle the cushion and heat for the ti valve... the spring has to be able to handle the lightweight of the ti valve and the shim has to handle the ti valve aswell....

JMHO

-lumi


I'm calling BS on this one. I have been using Hot Cams shims in the CRF250R and the 450 for years without problems. They both come standard with Ti intake valves. If the Honda shims are harder, wouldn't they be more likely to damage the softer Ti valves than the "soft" HC shims? I have never seen a shim, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, HC deform or lose size. It is not necessary to throw them away after use either. They can be reused infinitly.

[lumi]

well the material is a known fact used in the hot cam shims now either u want to believe it or go aorund the internet and u can find some hotcam shims failures in the 06's...... i did my self use hotcam shims in alot of SS valve and ti valve getting away with it, but unless hotcams have updated the shims running them for long period of time will cause almost a cupping of the shim to the valve... i have seen this before numerous time... just do a search on a couple 450 sites. u will be surprised... just trying to help people out man.... and no u dont have to throw out the shims... but its not common to be able to use them again... but i have seen that happen.

but its not bull****... sorry you think so man




-lumi

[ghott]

I believe DASA Dan actually had a Hot Cams Shim failure in an 06' head. I could be wrong...but I thought I remember seeing a thread like that over on the Org.