Nirvana

[TGW_400ex]

I've been getting tired of new music lately so I started listening to older music. I'm really starting to like Nirvana and Bush since they sound the same. There is all this controversy on Kurt Cobains death. There are even sites just for it. So what do you guys believe?

[zeppelin]

haha nirvana and bush are nothing alike, ecept for the fact that they are great 90's bands. you should also check out the stone temple pilots and velvet revolver if you are getting into 90's rock..

[Mxjunkie]

cant forget Pearl jam, Alice in chains, Penny Wise and temple of the dog

I do have to agree with music nowdays, piss poor if you ask me.. The lyrics have no meaning to them anymore, there's no great solos or guitar riff's.. the only time you actually hear a 1-2 min solo is in the death/black metal bands now which is fine good riding music :blah:

I doubt we'll ever have music like the relaxing, solo music of the 60's-70's, The hair metal from the 80s, and the rock and grunge from 90's again anytime soon..

[Raptor68]

I LOVE Temple of the Dog.

BTW, can't forget about Smashing Pumpkins and Blind Melon.

[rooster300ex]

All them bands are good. Don't forget about collective soul,filter,sound garden,sublime,pantera,godsmack,three days grace,korn,the black crows. Just to name a few favorite bands.

And I believe Kurt shot himself. He attempted suicide some days before with pain pills and other drugs.

What songs have your heard of nirvana. I have quite a bit of nirvana. I don't think I have any songs from the cd bleach.

This is what I have.
Smells Like Teen Spirit
Come As You Are
Breed
Lithium
Polly
On A Plain
Something In The Way
Pennyroyal Tea
Dumb
All Apologies
The Man Who Sold The World
Where Did You Sleep Last Night
plateau
Free Bird(rare)
Lake of Fire
marijuana

[WhiteZrider]

Kurt Cobain shot himself in the face with a shotgun, and was found in his green house by his girlfriend.

[TGW_400ex]

THREE TIMES A LETHAL DOSE OF HEROIN?
Kurt apparently had 3 times the lethal 225 mgs dose of heroin (1.52 mgs per liter) in his blood system and intravenous puncture marks in both arms. Medical experts will tell you that such an amount, when injected directly into the bloodstream will leave you incapacitated and cause you to lapse into a coma within seconds, if not kill you instantly before the needle can even be removed from your arm. It's common for deaths of heroin overdoses to be found with the needle still sticking out of the arm. That's how quickly one lethal dose can kill a person, let alone three.
It's hard to believe that Cobain injected himself with an insane triple lethal dose of heroin, pulled the needle out of his arm, carefully put away that needle and the heroin paraphernalia neatly back into a cigar box a few feet away, rolled down and button his sleeves, then picked up a Remington 20-gauge shotgun , placed it in his mouth and discharged it. There does not seem to be another case in history in which anything close to this has ever occurred and many researchers feel it is simply impossible.

The drug Diazepam (Valium), was also found in Cobain's blood system. A drug that is known to aggravate heroin, and makes an overdose that much worse. The question remains as to why Cobain would shoot himself after taking a triple lethal dose, which clearly would have been more than enough to cause death instantly. A triple overdose, followed by shooting yourself not only doesn't make sense, but is impossible according to the medical experts.

Canadian Chemist Roger Lewis read the Cobain autopsy report. Knowing that drug related "suicides" are often a staged cover up for a murder, he studied 98 similar deaths and their pathology, criminology and forensic tests. His research is titled "Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers", and it was published in Opinion Magazine. An online version is also available and is a must-read for anyone who wants to intelligently argue that Cobain was murdered. To be fair, there is a rebuttal to Lewis' findings, which has also been posted on the web, as well as Lewis' rebuttal to the first one. Links to that debate are available in the internet coverage section of this site.


NO FINGERPRINTS?
According to the police report, there were no "legible" fingerprints on the shotgun (which some sources say indicate the gun had been wiped or cleaned), none on the pen found with the "suicide" note, or the box of shotgun shells found beside Kurt. How can you write a note, load up a shotgun with 3 shells, and shoot yourself without leaving any fingerprints on anything? Also, his head was nowhere near "blown off", as mistakenly reported by the press. It was fully intact and not as gruesome as people close to the situation had made it out to be to the media and friends. The Remington Model 11 shotgun is a very light shotgun that dealers recommend for home protection, because the shot won't penetrate walls and endanger those on the other side.
Sgt. Cameron admitted 2 years later that there were no markings on Kurt's hands indicating he had fired the weapon. "Yeah, there weren't any marks on his hands...Some rookie must've put that line in the police report." he said when speaking about the mistake in the police report. Tom Grant says: "I can say with confidence that there were no marks on Cobain's hands that would indicate he fired this weapon. I've had the police reports analyzed by other homicide detectives and criminalists. No one can figure out what these "marks" could have been. I can't explain further at this time, but I can tell you the authorities will never claim the marks were GS residue or soot. Some of the additional evidence I've obtained regarding these so-called "marks" cannot be disclosed until the case is reopened. If the Seattle authorities ever care to describe the "marks" in detail, I'll come forward with additional evidence that will prove those so--called "marks" did not really exist."

Since things were also so neatly put away at the scene and there were no fingerprints on key objects, this seems to indicate someone "swept" it before Cobain's body was discovered. He clearly was not alone in that greenhouse.


BUSINESS IN LOS ANGELES?
Courtney Love was in Los Angeles during the week preceding and up to Kurt's death and when asked by many to fly up to Seattle to help locate her husband, whom she had told others "had a shotgun" and was "suicidal," she replied, "I can't. I have business to take care of." When Tom Grant mentioned to Rosemary Carroll that Courtney had said she couldn't go to Seattle herself because she "had business in L.A", Carroll replied "She didn't have any business in L.A.!" While Kurt was in Seattle in supposed "suicide" mode, Love was arrested due to a 911 phone call reporting an overdose in her hotel room. Paramedics arrived and took her to the hospital before releasing her 2 hours later into police custody. She was charged with possession of a syringe and drug paraphernalia. Phone records show that the 911 call that got her arrested, originated from her own hotel room. Tom Grant believes this was Courtney's attempt to establish an alibi right before Kurt was found.

A SECRET SECOND NOTE?
Courtney produced a never-before seen second note to Seattle police, which she claims Kurt wrote in Rome during "his first suicide attempt". A police officer says it was not a suicide not, but rather a rambling and unflattering diatribe against her. Courtney admits the existance of this note in a December 1994 Rolling Stone interview, and to Tom Grant. Grant has her on tape saying that she burned it . Courtney says the second note also mentioned a divorce.

THE ROME INCIDENT
Kurt was not a user of Rohypnol , he also didn't drink alcohol. On March 4th 1994 in Rome, when he was on the verge of leaving Courtney and the tour he was on, he was suddenly hospitalized with these substances in his body. Many believe this was the first, failed, murder attempt as both Michael DeWitt and Courtney Love were also in that hotel room in Rome. By some miracle, Kurt survived the combination of Rohypnol and Alcohol, and told everyone, including the doctors that it was not a suicide attempt. Dr. Galletta, who treated him, agreed it was just an accident. Kurt also mentioned that he could not remember what had happened to cause the coma. This is a common side effect of Rohypnol , better known as the "date rape drug" or "roofies". At the time, Rohypnol was a colorless, odorless drug which dissolves quickly into drinks, including water, and induces amnesia (loss of memory) when abused. The prescription for this drug belonged to Courtney. She was seen popping some during an interview with Select magazine in Rome on March 3rd and it's documented in the interview. Also, Tom Grant found empty packets of the prescription with her name on it when he searched the Cobain home on April 7th.

MONEY FOR MURDER?
Eldon Hoke (aka "El Duce"), singer of a band called the Mentors, claimed he was offered $50,000 by Courtney Love three months earlier to kill her husband. On March 6, 1996, Hoke was administered a polygraph test by Dr. Edward Gelb, who is one of the country's leading polygraph experts. He was also teaching the advanced polygraph course for the FBI. Hoke passed a lie detector test with 99.7% certainty that he was telling the truth. Eldon Hoke briefly appeared in the Nick Broomfield "Kurt & Courtney" documentary.
On April 19th 1997, eight days after having his story filmed by Broomfield, Hoke was found dead in Riverside, California by the California Highway Police. A source described the events as "highly suspicious. He showed up at his house in Riverside with this guy who he introduced as his new friend none of his roommates had ever met before and said they were going out to the liquor store and would be back soon. He never returned. The 'friend' was never seen again and Hoke was found squashed on a railroad track, apparently hit by a train. Anybody who knew Hoke, according to his friends, knew that the best way to befriend him was to offer to buy him a drink. So the scenario is quite obvious."

While Grant and others believe Hoke was offered money by Courtney and was telling the truth about that, he did not personally, nor did he know who killed Kurt. Hoke used the situation to drum up publicity for himself and for a band he apparently started called "Courtney Killed Kurt". In the end, it might have been the thing that got him killed. A popular hoax has popped up in recent years where people claim they know who killed both Cobain and Hoke. Read more detailed information about Hoke including a brief transcript of the conversation he had with Courtney Love in Eldon Hoke, AKA El Duce - By Frances Barnett


A CANCELED CREDIT CARD & FLAT TIRES
There is evidence that circumstances were manipulated to prevent Kurt from using his own car and gaining access to his own money in the days leading up to his death. Courtney canceled his credit card right after he used it to purchase a flight back home to Seattle on April 1st, and according to the police report, all 4 tires of his car were flat .

MEDIA MANIPULATION
After Kurt was found dead a month later in Seattle, and could not set the record straight anymore, Courtney tells everyone that the Rome incident was actually "a suicide attempt". This went against everything Kurt, and the doctors that treated him had said about the incident. The media goes with Love's side of the story for some reason and don't question it. The few that tried had gotten legal threats tossed their way or were just pressured to back off.
Peter Cleary, a friend of Kurt's from Seattle said the following in an interview: "The thing you have to remember about all the talk of Kurt being suicidal is that all the talk only started when Courtney came out after the death and said Rome was a suicide attempt and the media picked up on all her examples of Kurt being suicidal. That's when all these people started saying,'Of course he was suicidal, just listen to his music.' But that's a bunch of crap. Sure he was a moody guy and got depressed quite often. That applies to a hell of a lot of people, including me. But nobody ever talked about Kurt being suicidal before he died, Nobody. Why do you think everybody who knew him was so surprised when Courtney said that Rome was a suicide attempt? I've read all this ignorant bull**** in the media pointing to the fact that Kurt wanted to call In utero 'I Hate Myself and I Want to Die.' It was a joke, for chrissake. That was his warped sense of humour. He was the most sarcastic guy you'll ever meet. He was not suicidal, at least not when I knew him, and I knew him for the last year of his life."


CONFLICT OF INTEREST
The medical examiner, Dr. Nikolas Hartshorne insists Cobain died from a self-inflicted shotgun wound. He was interviewed in 2000 for a VH1 Confidential story on the theories. Hartshorne is adamant that Kurt's death was "an open and shut case of suicide". "Kurt died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. I have no doubt in my mind, not one shred of doubt, that this is in fact a suicide." he says.
However, Hartshorne's credibility has been questioned due to a conflict of interest. He knew Cobain and Love personally. Hartshorne booked shows in Seattle in the late 80s. He was also a "party friend" of Courtney Love.

During a 1996 lecture by the authors of Who Killed Kurt Cobain? in Montreal, they showed video taped interviews of Hartshorne admitting he and Love were friends. Hartshorne left Seattle shortly after Kurt's death.

August 22nd 2002 Update: Mr. Hartshorne passed away on August 6th 2002 in a BASE jumping accident.


NO BEHAVIOURAL PATTERN OF SUICIDE
Kurt's friends said he preparing to leave Seattle to join friends on the East coast. Kurt apparently had made plans to see one of his favorite bands who were touring the East coast at the time. He also made plans with his grandfather, Leland Cobain, to go fishing. Michael Stipe, of R.E.M., says Kurt was going to visit him to work on music. They had struck up a friendship and planned to record something together. Why would someone that is about to commit suicide make these types of plans? When Tom Grant asked Kurt's best friend Dylan Carlson if he thought Cobain was suicidal, he was adamant, saying, "No. Not at all," and added that despite the major changes imminent in his life, Cobain was "pretty upbeat." Mark Lanegan (of the band Screaming Trees), another of Cobain's close friends, expressed the same sentiment to Grant, and later told reporters for Rolling Stone, "I never knew Kurt to be suicidal." In a Rolling Stone interview a few months earlier, Kurt was quoted as saying "I've never been more happier in my life". Not one of the therapists who spoke with Cobain just a few days before his death at the Exodus Treatment Center (one of the most renowned drug rehabilitation facilities in the country) considered him suicidal. Finally, Tom Grant and Rosemary Carroll had an impassioned conversation in which she exclaimed, "He wasn't suicidal, Tom. Kurt wasn't suicidal!" For more documented quotes from friends and family close to Kurt in the final weeks, please read Kurt Was Not Suicidal by Frances Barnett.

[bradley300]

good write up. i remember this guy in highscholl that had known everything about nirvana since the nevermind cd when we were in the 3rd grade. he did a big book report on how kurt was murdered and it was pretty convincing

Originally posted by WhiteZrider
Kurt Cobain shot himself in the face with a shotgun, and was found in his green house by his girlfriend.

HAHAHAH!!!!!!....your funny....no he wasnt....Kurt Cobain escaped from a rehab center 3 days before he commited suicide. He went home, dressed up in courtney's clothes and went to bed, woke up the next morning and played the guitars all day. then the next day he went out and bought more shotgun shells (he disposed of the first batch before going to rehab)...and went to bed in courtneys clothes after composing his suicide letter to boddah and courtney. He woke up the next morning, got out his "works box" which contained all his heroin supplies and also got the shotgun (20guage remington wingmaster pump), went out to the greenhouse, spread towels out (he was very empathetic to everyone)....then cooked up some heroin shot himself with it...then he put the shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

He was found three days later by an electrician who was called about some lighting problems.

If your gonna tell a story, then make sure the facts are right.

BTW, if anyone wants to know how I know all of this, read the biograophy of Kurt Cobain, its called "heavier than heaven"...
;)


And to the person who had the extremely long post...most of that is true, but he used a model 870 wingmaster pump...however it was a 20 guage, and his head was swollen from the shot.....ive seen pictures....it was horrible, and his suicide is also beside the point, we should remeber him for his music and his influence on the world, Kurt Cobain will be missed by me and all other true Nirvana fans.

[bulkdriverlp]

kurt cobain made good music, i used to jam to it all the time. i remember many high school "woods" parties where we would jam his cd and get drunk by the fire. man, those were the days.

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by the_440_kid
HAHAHAH!!!!!!....your funny....no he wasnt....Kurt Cobain escaped from a rehab center 3 days before he commited suicide. He went home, dressed up in courtney's clothes and went to bed, woke up the next morning and played the guitars all day. then the next day he went out and bought more shotgun shells (he disposed of the first batch before going to rehab)...and went to bed in courtneys clothes after composing his suicide letter to boddah and courtney. He woke up the next morning, got out his "works box" which contained all his heroin supplies and also got the shotgun (20guage remington wingmaster pump), went out to the greenhouse, spread towels out (he was very empathetic to everyone)....then cooked up some heroin shot himself with it...then he put the shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

He was found three days later by an electrician who was called about some lighting problems.

If your gonna tell a story, then make sure the facts are right.

BTW, if anyone wants to know how I know all of this, read the biograophy of Kurt Cobain, its called "heavier than heaven"...
;)


And to the person who had the extremely long post...most of that is true, but he used a model 870 wingmaster pump...however it was a 20 guage, and his head was swollen from the shot.....ive seen pictures....it was horrible, and his suicide is also beside the point, we should remeber him for his music and his influence on the world, Kurt Cobain will be missed by me and all other true Nirvana fans.

Thats off of justiceforkurt.com

[One_Bad_400]

there's so many stories, I also read that he was found by his mom. If you want to see something interesting look up the parallels between the deaths of Kurt Cobain and Layne Staley(Alice in Chains vocalist) two the best best 90's grunge musicians...

another good 90's band kinda of that genre is Candlebox

and oh yeah, nirvana and bush are nothing alike

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
there's so many stories, I also read that he was found by his mom. If you want to see something interesting look up the parallels between the deaths of Kurt Cobain and Layne Staley(Alice in Chains vocalist) two the best best 90's grunge musicians...

another good 90's band kinda of that genre is Candlebox

and oh yeah, nirvana and bush are nothing alike

Bush sounds the same their not as good but yea.

[Scott-300ex]

Yeh Kurt made good music.

I heard he shot himself with the barrel in his mouth of a shotgun and they had to take dental records to identify him.

I read his suicide note too, he just didn't think he could keep impressing everyone cuz he was famous, didn't think he could do it anymore and didn't want to be famous.

And metal bands that started in the 90's rock, even today they're new stuff is still good.

New metal bands I don't like.

[Scott-300ex]

Yeh Kurt made good music.

I heard he shot himself with the barrel in his mouth of a shotgun and they had to take dental records to identify him.

I read his suicide note too, he just didn't think he could keep impressing everyone cuz he was famous, didn't think he could do it anymore and didn't want to be famous.

And you said he loaded 3 shotgun shells? Why load 3 when it only takes 1 to kill you.

And metal bands that started in the 90's rock, even today they're new stuff is still good.

New metal bands I don't like.

[440racer66]

like the other post i belive he was killed i love this band

[Crazy Diamond]

Enough heroin to take down a elephant! Never could have pulled the trigger. The money hungry ***** had him killed to get even more of his money after finding out he was going to divorce her! MURDER is NOT Suicide! It was also on Unsolved Mysteries a few years back! TGW...You got it all right! Long Live KURT!!!

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by Crazy Diamond
Enough heroin to take down a elephant! Never could have pulled the trigger. The money hungry ***** had him killed to get even more of his money after finding out he was going to divorce her! MURDER is NOT Suicide! It was also on Unsolved Mysteries a few years back! TGW...You got it all right! Long Live KURT!!!

Yea all that **** that doesn't add up.

[trx440]

I remember watching 120 Minutes on MTV when they premiered Smells Like Teen Spirit. I was a Senior in college. My roomate was from Bellingham, Wa, he had us all into the Seattle scene already. When I heard and saw that, I knew nothing would be the same. Every band was done, except for maybe Guns [but they imploded on their own] Pearl Jam followed with Alive and Allice in Chains with Man in a Box. And the rest is history. Seattle wrecked hair bands forever If you like that style of music also check out:

Mudhoney
AIC
Soundgarden
Pearl Jam
The Screaming Trees
The Melvins
Mother Love Bone [My favorite]
Green River

Now, there was some good music in the 90's for sure:

Metallica
Early Goo Goo Dolls
Days of the New
Smashing Pumpkins [Gish CD]
Live

And most of all, what in the end turned out to be the most influencial band of the 90's:

Rage Against the Machine

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Yeh Kurt made good music.

I heard he shot himself with the barrel in his mouth of a shotgun and they had to take dental records to identify him.

I read his suicide note too, he just didn't think he could keep impressing everyone cuz he was famous, didn't think he could do it anymore and didn't want to be famous.

And metal bands that started in the 90's rock, even today they're new stuff is still good.

New metal bands I don't like.

The "suicide" note was not a sucide note at all, it was talking about how he wanted to get out of the music business and Courtney was threatened by this. If he got out of the business they wouldn't be making a lot of money anymore, if he died then she would forever be receiving money when people buy one of the greatest deceased artist's albums. Ever notice that the last few lines of the "suicide" note aren't in Kurt's handwriting?

It's scientific FACT that Kurt could NOT kill himself, no one in this world could've in the state that he was. It's called not believing everything the media hands you, because 99% of the time it's going to be 100% bulls**t.

And to whoever said he killed himself because you read it in his biography. The biography was written by some guy who didn't even know him closely, so how can he know for a fact that he killed himself? Was he there? Maybe he's the one who killed him if he know so much about what Kurt did before he "killed himself". Ever think about that?

[trx440]

I'm not well versed in the conspiracy theories surrounding the death of KC but what does the "closeness" of the author to KC have to do with the accuracy? Many biographies are done without being close to the subject. It requires more research but also leaves the biographer free to write an unbiased account of their findings. Writing a biography on charasmatic subjects can be near immpossible if you are too close to the subject.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by trx440
I'm not well versed in the conspiracy theories surrounding the death of KC but what does the "closeness" of the author to KC have to do with the accuracy? Many biographies are done without being close to the subject. It requires more research but also leaves the biographer free to write an unbiased account of their findings. Writing a biography on charasmatic subjects can be near immpossible if you are too close to the subject.

I just said that because someone mentioned that they believe that he killed himself just because the guy who wrote his biography said so. Not really something good to base your theory off of when it goes against all evidence and just pure scientific fact.

[trick450r]

Originally posted by trx440
I remember watching 120 Minutes on MTV when they premiered Smells Like Teen Spirit. I was a Senior in college. My roomate was from Bellingham, Wa, he had us all into the Seattle scene already. When I heard and saw that, I knew nothing would be the same. Every band was done, except for maybe Guns [but they imploded on their own] Pearl Jam followed with Alive and Allice in Chains with Man in a Box. And the rest is history. Seattle wrecked hair bands forever If you like that style of music also check out:

Mudhoney
AIC
Soundgarden
Pearl Jam
The Screaming Trees
The Melvins
Mother Love Bone [My favorite]
Green River

Now, there was some good music in the 90's for sure:

Metallica
Early Goo Goo Dolls
Days of the New
Smashing Pumpkins [Gish CD]
Live

And most of all, what in the end turned out to be the most influencial band of the 90's:

Rage Against the Machine

rage against the machine is awsome because if you look up the lyrics, they talk about some cool stuff, alot of their songs are based around modern politcs hah

[trx440]

Rage is definitely an activist band. Tom Morello was on The Bill Mahr Show a few weeks back. Smart guy. But you would expect as much from a Harvard guy. Zach De La Rocha's lyrics and delivery are some of the best ever. Now I don't agree with most of what they say but I definitely respect a rock group that can bring important issues to young people and challenge them to think. That's Pop Culture at it's best.

Hopefully Chris Cornell will go solo and Zach will rejoin Tom and bring back Rage.

"Rollin' down Rodeo with a shotgun
These people ain't seen a... brown skinned man,
since their grandparents bought one."

That's revolutionary.

[Scott-300ex]

Originally posted by Toadz400
I just said that because someone mentioned that they believe that he killed himself just because the guy who wrote his biography said so. Not really something good to base your theory off of when it goes against all evidence and just pure scientific fact.

So if we listen to you then we are saying he got killed just because "You wrote it."

How do you know its scientific fact, did you see the body in its original position and spot, were you the first one to find him dead. You don't know more than anyone else on here.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
So if we listen to you then we are saying he got killed just because "You wrote it."

How do you know its scientific fact, did you see the body in its original position and spot, were you the first one to find him dead. You don't know more than anyone else on here.

Okay now you are just being ridiculous. I didn't say that anyone should believe me just because I said so, it's called reading the police reports and forensic evidence. There was no possible way that anyone would've been able to kill himself under those circumstances. Don't twist my words into something completely different, I really hate arguing on the internet and that's not what this thread was created for.

Has anyone seen Audioslave perform live and play RATM? Chris actually did quite a good job at playing the part but obviously it was no where as good as the original RATM.

[Crazy Diamond]

Yeah, Kurt wouldn't have been able to roll his sleeve down after injecting himself with that amount of heroin!! Not only did he do that tho, but he then put his paraphenalia neatly away in his drug box. Then loaded the gun and pulled the trigger! Yeah OK! Thats what happened. They would have found him with the needle hanging out of his arm-cold as ice!!! Rotten SOB! The world could have used more music from Kurt!

[Crazy Diamond]

...and what about the mystery person the nanny seen leaving the guest house when Kurt had supposedly already killed himself!?!? And what about the someone using his credit card a day or 2 after he was already dead?? Damn, Kurt's ghost...

[trx440]

I think Kurt stumbled upon the truth that President Bush is actually an alien hybid child from the Roswell crash and the Men in Black came in the black chopper and took him out.

If that's not it, I'll go with Colonel Mustard with a candlestick in the kitchen.

.

[Crazy Diamond]

Yep!!! Thats it!!! LOL