Is Can-Am skeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd? [Archive]

Mickey Dunlap

11-25-2006, 12:56 PM

By now most Utility GNCC racers know that Four Stroke Tech was going back to GNCC racing in the utility class with some wild 900cc motored V-Forces, Prairie's and Brute Forces. I just got word that there has been a 800cc limit put on the Utility Mod and Utility "Unlimited" class. I think Can-Am is skeeeeeeeeerd of this and in their meeting with the GNCC folks a few weeks ago they got them to put a limit on the class to keep it from getting out of hand. It is most likely a law that MFG's can't make quads over 800cc, or maybe they become unsafe over 800 and in the veiw of safety it's better that way. I think it's because the morning classes are going to be getting a little TV coverage next year and they don't want to see those Yellow quads behind any other color.

What do you think?

troutman561

11-25-2006, 01:43 PM

Probably just a smart move to keep some sort of consistency and safety just as there isn't anything over 450cc allowed in the sport quad MX sector...

11-25-2006, 03:35 PM

yeah for a while it was getting out of control and still is IMO...700cc high performance quads? :rolleyes: anything over 500 is too much...plus its bad when a 250cc beats a 700cc....but the number dont mean much anyways..

Pappy

11-25-2006, 05:37 PM

Ya skeerd'em Mickey:devil:

nickmelll

11-25-2006, 06:21 PM

its about time they do some thing how much power can someone seriosly need :rolleyes:

CDCHONDAS

11-25-2006, 09:38 PM

cc's is way overrated, the manufacturers could build a 500 that would cream anything on the 4x4 market but the manufacturers are in a cc war and everyone wants something bigger than their buddy, not everyone realizes how detuned some of these motors are.

Quad18star

11-25-2006, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by CDCHONDAS
cc's is way overrated, the manufacturers could build a 500 that would cream anything on the 4x4 market but the manufacturers are in a cc war and everyone wants something bigger than their buddy, not everyone realizes how detuned some of these motors are.

I've been on mud runs and have watched 400CC Big Bears go more places than any Big Bore utility out there . If I was to buy another Utility , it would probably be a 450 Kodiak ... it's got everything you need for a great day of riding .

Mickey Dunlap

11-26-2006, 07:53 AM

I know my riders are not going to go that much faster on a 900cc vs. my 800's, but it is funny that because I said I was putting some good riders on 900's to overall the morning class to both the GNCC people and Can-Am that up pops a new limit with out even asking anyone what they think like they do on most new rule changes. It dosen't matter to me about the cc limit it was how it was done. I had already told the riders I was only going to build them 800's before this. Now because of the 800cc limit I do have to make new pistons because my 88mm pistons make the 700 motor a true 802.8 so now I'm over. I am the kind of guy that plays 100% by the rules, what do you think, do we let 803's run or maybe 805's,810's or do we stop it right at 800cc?

GE4x4

11-26-2006, 08:02 AM

derekhonda

11-26-2006, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
I know my riders are not going to go that much faster on a 900cc vs. my 800's, but it is funny that because I said I was putting some good riders on 900's to overall the morning class to both the GNCC people and Can-Am that up pops a new limit with out even asking anyone what they think like they do on most new rule changes. It dosen't matter to me about the cc limit it was how it was done. I had already told the riders I was only going to build them 800's before this. Now because of the 800cc limit I do have to make new pistons because my 88mm pistons make the 700 motor a true 802.8 so now I'm over. I am the kind of guy that plays 100% by the rules, what do you think, do we let 803's run or maybe 805's,810's or do we stop it right at 800cc?

I think they ought to give a 1% margin. like 400 level = 404. 800 level = 808. It would be damn near impossible to get it to land right on the money, a nice range would be nice.

Mickey Dunlap

11-26-2006, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by derekhonda
I think they ought to give a 1% margin. like 400 level = 404. 800 level = 808. It would be damn near impossible to get it to land right on the money, a nice range would be nice.

From what I was told, there would be no quads over 800cc on the track.

Mickey Dunlap

11-26-2006, 09:27 AM

Well it's out now that the Can-Am is a 806cc which is over, but the way it will go down is they will give them the 1% so they can run. I messed with them so much that they changed the rules! lol I like it that a little aftermarket company can put the fear it to the MFG's. There's one for the little guy's!:)

coolguy8769

11-26-2006, 09:39 AM

Mickey Dunlap

11-26-2006, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by coolguy8769
haha nice!

dont wanna sound like an idoit but who are you? :chinese:

Mickey Dunlap / Four Stroke Tech

firefighterjosh

11-26-2006, 08:10 PM

Are the rules updated on the GNCC website yet? I am interested in running the UTE stock class next year.

My stock 700CC King quad rund 72 consetenly. At 650lbs I do not plan on going any faster. It could be a saftey thing or it could be a cost type thing to help out the littler people running that class. Who knows.

Mickey Dunlap

11-27-2006, 08:53 AM

Just got off the phone with the GNCC people and they confirmed that it was Can-Am that wanted the new rule. Big shocker!:rolleyes: So I told them it was fine with me but did they know that the Can-Am was a 806cc? They where shocked and said they would get back to me on this. LOL Can you say back paddle.

Mxjunkie

11-27-2006, 08:57 AM

lmfao.. there goes that :p

One question though, why in the world do you need a 800cc quad.. Wouldn't it be smarter to build a smaller bore motor that'll rev to the moon?

bradley300

11-27-2006, 09:21 AM

not for cross country, average rpm is in the 2500-4500 rpm range

mickey, i have to agree with you on this one. i havent seen can- am do much good, but plenty of bad. one of thier guys were trash talking in the pits at the 12 hours, made his whole team look like idiots. then they broke by 3 hours, and left, even tho they had the parts to fix it. they also broke last year at the 12 hours after about 4 hours, and didnt they break 3 quads at the baja last year? it sounds like they cant can-am. maybe thats why they are asking everyone else,lol

coryatver

11-27-2006, 09:42 AM

Yeah you definitly don't want a crazy rever. The pros even actually try to make the 450's more tame in that way I remember watching an interview with Jenks and he was talking about that. That is funny. It does say it is 800cc on all there web sites but when you calculate it from the bore and stroke it is 806cc.. they must have rounded Pi or something haha.

Mickey Dunlap

11-27-2006, 10:02 AM

Yes, from what I heard Jenks liked my 500cc torquer better then what he had this year. Our 730cc kit runs fine but the 800 is much more woods friendly, but you might see a 850 out there. lol

It's kind of funny when you get a rule changed that could take you out of the very class you wanted it for. What where they thinking. I must be messing with them really bad. lol

Tommy 17

11-27-2006, 10:05 AM

keep givin it 2 them! they deserve to get messed with if their company is that dumb!

Pappy

11-27-2006, 11:17 AM

any cc limits in the WPSA series:chinese:

Mickey Dunlap

11-27-2006, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
any cc limits in the WPSA series:chinese:

Yes it's 700cc and you can't do anything to the motor.:ermm:

firefighterjosh

11-27-2006, 07:16 PM

Dosen't most of the Can Am riders ride the 650's anways?:p

scramblerracer

11-27-2006, 07:30 PM

GO get them canadian *******s Mickey. Will we see all orange v forces and utilities next year?

Kaleigh

11-27-2006, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by scramblerracer
GO get them canadian *******s Mickey. Will we see all orange v forces and utilities next year?

hey now.. dis the company not the country.. :D not alot of Canadians even like CanAm,, their customer service sucks.. if you buy something from then.. you better learn how to fix it yourself.. just about everyone I know has some kind of customer service problem.

scramblerracer

11-27-2006, 08:25 PM

Sorry-I get all of my info about canadians from south park. I love how much power the 800 makes but around here-central missouri it is very hard to get any service. This is keeping some buyers away. Big Polaris and Kawasaki following here for utes.

PeeWee21

11-28-2006, 06:02 AM

Ah......cry babies on both ends of the stick IMO. 1 cries for more cc's and one cries for less cc's. Just quit crying and race.:macho

Mickey Dunlap

11-28-2006, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by scramblerracer
GO get them canadian *******s Mickey. Will we see all orange v forces and utilities next year?

Yes it will be an Orange grove on the starting line.:D

Mickey Dunlap

11-28-2006, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Ah......cry babies on both ends of the stick IMO. 1 cries for more cc's and one cries for less cc's. Just quit crying and race.:macho

No crying here, just don't change the rules for the wrong reasons.

If it's a safety thing then you shouldn't be racing utilitys in the first place.:eek2:

465Stroker

11-28-2006, 09:11 AM

Mickey,

Who are your riders for next year for what class?

Quad18star

11-28-2006, 09:33 AM

You gotta draw the line somewhere , or else you'll end up with guys that'll find a way to get 1200cc motors .

As for the V-Force , I don't think it should be anywhere on a Utility starting line . It isn't a 4x4 and it doesn't have racks .... it shouldn't be classified " Utility"

Mickey Dunlap

11-28-2006, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Mickey,

Who are your riders for next year for what class?

Everyone but Stack! lol. Nothing is settle yet where waiting on our budget;)

TGW_400ex

11-28-2006, 10:21 AM

Skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eerd!

Crashmore 22

11-28-2006, 10:33 AM

Are you planning on having any riders in the afternoon race? I hope so, I would like to see you building some big bore motors for the pros again!!!

465Stroker

11-28-2006, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Everyone but Stack! lol. Nothing is settle yet where waiting on our budget;)

Guess I am one up on ya caus I already know who is going to win..;)

Mickey Dunlap

11-28-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Crashmore 22
Are you planning on having any riders in the afternoon race? I hope so, I would like to see you building some big bore motors for the pros again!!!

It's hard to get going in the pro class again because you cant do much with cams with the EFI system the way everything is now. I will have one up and coming pro-am rider. Or I may put him in the utility class.:eek2:

Mickey Dunlap

11-28-2006, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Guess I am one up on ya caus I already know who is going to win..;)

LOL Info like that would be worth alot of money! Too bad no one knows what will happen in GNCC racing untill the checkers come out.:p

Pappy

11-28-2006, 01:23 PM

You all will lose, I am the secret weapon for next year:devil:

Mickey Dunlap

11-28-2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
You all will lose, I am the secret weapon for next year:devil:

If your the secret weapon I'm calling Race-X and getting the rules changed!:macho

Pappy

11-28-2006, 03:10 PM

Change away, but it will cost more then $200 to have me tore down..haha:D

GE4x4

11-29-2006, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Well it's out now that the Can-Am is a 806cc which is over, but the way it will go down is they will give them the 1% so they can run. I messed with them so much that they changed the rules! lol I like it that a little aftermarket company can put the fear it to the MFG's. There's one for the little guy's!:)

Actually if you do the formula it comes to 806.48cc. Now I know they round up as there parts list shows a 90.958 piston. But even that comes to 805.73cc. But they don't give the actuall stroke number. But rule of thumb is, if over .5 you round up. So if the stroke is like 61.5 with a 90.958 piston, then they would have 799.24 cc. So they still could be under 800cc if we knew the exact stroke. The 800 was taken from there 400 and made a twin out of it, and the 400 shows a 61.5 stroke, thus that would make the 800 just under 800cc.

Mickey Dunlap

11-29-2006, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
Actually if you do the formula it comes to 806.48cc. Now I know they round up as there parts list shows a 90.958 piston. But even that comes to 805.73cc. But they don't give the actuall stroke number. But rule of thumb is, if over .5 you round up. So if the stroke is like 61.5 with a 90.958 piston, then they would have 799.24 cc. So they still could be under 800cc if we knew the exact stroke. The 800 was taken from there 400 and made a twin out of it, and the 400 shows a 61.5 stroke, thus that would make the 800 just under 800cc.

The website and every mag. says 91x62.:confused: This is the info they give out so we have to take it that's what it is.

GE4x4

11-29-2006, 08:35 AM

True, but if push comes to shove, they may be able to prove it's under 800cc. Many companies inflate there numbers.

Mickey Dunlap

11-29-2006, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
True, but if push comes to shove, they may be able to prove it's under 800cc. Many companies inflate there numbers.

They may inflate the numbers as far as what they call them, but no one ever inflates the bore and stroke numbers. That's how you know what they really are. I have never seen a company say it has a 62mm stroke but we are calling it a 63mm stroke.

GE4x4

11-29-2006, 10:46 AM

I'm not talking a whole mm but partial. There piston is a 90.958 so the call it a 91. There stroke could be a 61.56 and call it a 62.

xchamp

11-29-2006, 11:05 AM

Can Am will be strokin when i blow them away on my FST powered Praire:D !

PeeWee21

11-29-2006, 11:12 AM

I agree the KFX 700 should'nt be anywhere near the Utility class...Kawi sure as hell does'nt sell it as a ute do they??? Nope, it's a sport bike! You guys and all of this high dollar crap is why racing is becoming more and more difficult for everyone...go ahead Mickey, drive the cost of the sport even higher...that's good business practice for ya...i would say the same for all other aftermarket companies as well, i'm not singling Mickey out. I know to play you have to pay......but for some reason the average racer does'nt benefit chit from you all. Yes i know your out to profit from you business....as i would....but pretty soon it's gonna be like SuperCross to compete in any class....high $$$$ machines that can't be afforded!!!!:mad:

Mickey Dunlap

11-29-2006, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by PeeWee21
I agree the KFX 700 should'nt be anywhere near the Utility class...Kawi sure as hell does'nt sell it as a ute do they??? Nope, it's a sport bike! You guys and all of this high dollar crap is why racing is becoming more and more difficult for everyone...go ahead Mickey, drive the cost of the sport even higher...that's good business practice for ya...i would say the same for all other aftermarket companies as well, i'm not singling Mickey out. I know to play you have to pay......but for some reason the average racer does'nt benefit chit from you all. Yes i know your out to profit from you business....as i would....but pretty soon it's gonna be like SuperCross to compete in any class....high $$$$ machines that can't be afforded!!!!:mad:

Again I don't make the rules, Racer-X does. If they call it a utiliity for the last 2 years then that's what it is.

If people like me in the industry didn't get into racing there wouldn't be any aftermarket parts.:rolleyes:

lsittingbull

11-30-2006, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
They may inflate the numbers as far as what they call them, but no one ever inflates the bore and stroke numbers. That's how you know what they really are. I have never seen a company say it has a 62mm stroke but we are calling it a 63mm stroke.

Polaris sure inflated that ol sportsman 800,, i meant 760. Im pretty sure tha Can-am has the technology to compete with anything out there. Its the litle guys like me who can`t get there hands on that kind of technology. Im talking about the FI management system and there CDI box. Mickey you talked about Can-am approached you about there racing program over at HL. If Can-am would support you like Parts, FI and help with the motor program would you be interested?.

Mickey Dunlap

11-30-2006, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by lsittingbull
Polaris sure inflated that ol sportsman 800,, i meant 760. Im pretty sure tha Can-am has the technology to compete with anything out there. Its the litle guys like me who can`t get there hands on that kind of technology. Im talking about the FI management system and there CDI box. Mickey you talked about Can-am approached you about there racing program over at HL. If Can-am would support you like Parts, FI and help with the motor program would you be interested?.

Your a smart guy. Yes we where talking, but I didn't feel I would get that support with the FI and CDI that I would need. The Can-Am motor is alot better as far as big valve head and such to make the HP, but there are alot more Kawasaki's out the with all the different model's they put that motor in. The percentage of people that want to get more power out of the Can-Am is very low so I didn't go with that deal. Telling them I would rather stick to what I know and do best (Kawasaki's) and telling them I was going to smoke them with my 900cc is the reason for all this.:eek:

PeeWee21

11-30-2006, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
If people like me in the industry didn't get into racing there wouldn't be any aftermarket parts.:rolleyes: [/B]

You are correct, i can't deny that....but it is also you all that are driving the costs to an outrageous level. For the cost it takes to build a competitive atv...hell, i can build a race car!!!!! Yes i am thankful that guys like you have developed better parts and so on....but good lord....for an average guy like most of us...we can't afford what you sell anyways. Most of us have to buy used stuff, and i don't care a bit to buy it!!! lol Just like i said....i'm glad they got skeeered as you put it.....does it take your 900cc Kawi motor to outrun the Can Am motor? Or can't you do it on 750cc? That's the reason i got out of racing....money drives it and i'm running low on funds. I see so many gifted racers get pushed out of the sport because of this, it's a shame i think. But guys with big budgets and can't ride for shiiit seem to a dime a dozen!:rolleyes:

Pappy

11-30-2006, 07:29 AM

arent there classes for stock machines that pit rider skill over aftermarket parts? i thought there were.

racing is and always has been about the money. it doesnt take a full aftremarket atv to compete, there are riders that prove that every weekend.

Mickey Dunlap

11-30-2006, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Your a smart guy. Yes we where talking, but I didn't feel I would get that support with the FI and CDI that I would need. The Can-Am motor is alot better as far as big valve head and such to make the HP, but there are alot more Kawasaki's out the with all the different model's they put that motor in. The percentage of people that want to get more power out of the Can-Am is very low so I didn't go with that deal. Telling them I would rather stick to what I know and do best (Kawasaki's) and telling them I was going to smoke them with my 900cc is the reason for all this.:eek:

I hear what your saying. But I don't agree at all. When I started racing 3 Wheeler's Team Honda was the one to beat and it doesn't get any bigger then that. I didn't have a job at the time, my wife just reck our new truck and we where splitting up. I bought the truck back from the insurance company for a few bucks and took the rest of the money a got a new 1983 Honda 200x. I took a stock 200x out and qualified for the Seattle Kingdome national right behind Honda. To make a long story short I kicked their butts the rest of the year with less of a bike then they had . I made a living out of it and haven't had a real job in over 25 year. So if you are good enough make it happen, if not don't give us the blame game for your short comings. I hear racers tell me all the time, I could win if I had this or that. If your that good prove it, don't tell me what your going to do, tell me what you did! Sorry but racers are a bunch of cry babys and alls they know is how to play the blame game. I have helped alot of riders out over the years and I put more in to their race program then they do. Some day I will find a rider that #1 will listen, #2 give as much back as I give, #3 make the sponsors money back. Everyone one gives the riders the world but the riders don't really care if the sponsors get any thing back. That's why I have had some of the same sponsors for 25 years, ther make money off what I do for them! That's what it's all about!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :huh :eek: :eek2:

Mickey Dunlap

11-30-2006, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by PeeWee21
You are correct, i can't deny that....but it is also you all that are driving the costs to an outrageous level. For the cost it takes to build a competitive atv...hell, i can build a race car!!!!! Yes i am thankful that guys like you have developed better parts and so on....but good lord....for an average guy like most of us...we can't afford what you sell anyways. Most of us have to buy used stuff, and i don't care a bit to buy it!!! lol Just like i said....i'm glad they got skeeered as you put it.....does it take your 900cc Kawi motor to outrun the Can Am motor? Or can't you do it on 750cc? That's the reason i got out of racing....money drives it and i'm running low on funds. I see so many gifted racers get pushed out of the sport because of this, it's a shame i think. But guys with big budgets and can't ride for shiiit seem to a dime a dozen!:rolleyes:

Oh, and no it doesn't take a 900 to do that, but if your going to win, spank-um hard!:D

swampfoxsc

11-30-2006, 07:55 AM

GNCC Utility class results show that there isn't much difference in the Ute Stock and Ute Modified classes in terms of finishes. Remove the top fastest guys from each Ute class and the rest are mixed up in there pretty good. You can take a stock quad and ride it hard and be competitive.

PeeWee21

11-30-2006, 08:24 AM

This is a NO WIN argument from either of us...the racers blame the sponsors and sponsors blame the racers. The proverbial double edge sword. I guess that's why guys like me don't have big name sponsors and such....i have other bills that need paid so racing can't consume my life.

Mickey Dunlap

11-30-2006, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by swampfoxsc
GNCC Utility class results show that there isn't much difference in the Ute Stock and Ute Modified classes in terms of finishes. Remove the top fastest guys from each Ute class and the rest are mixed up in there pretty good. You can take a stock quad and ride it hard and be competitive.

That's true "if" you remove the top guys, but there are going to be faster top guys and the quads are going to be getting faster too.

bradley300

11-30-2006, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by swampfoxsc
GNCC Utility class results show that there isn't much difference in the Ute Stock and Ute Modified classes in terms of finishes. Remove the top fastest guys from each Ute class and the rest are mixed up in there pretty good. You can take a stock quad and ride it hard and be competitive.

i think thats true for the average racer. but those faster guys you are removing are the ones that really know how to ride and really use any advantage they have

krt400ex

11-30-2006, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by nickmelll
its about time they do some thing how much power can someone seriosly need :rolleyes:

or handle...especially in the tight woods like that

465Stroker

11-30-2006, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Oh, and no it doesn't take a 900 to do that, but if your going to win, spank-um hard!:D

When you talk about winning do you mean the Holeshot or the actual race?

Mickey Dunlap

11-30-2006, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
When you talk about winning do you mean the Holeshot or the actual race?

LOL. You have been around Stack too much, how dumb is that.:rolleyes:

465Stroker

11-30-2006, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
LOL. You have been around Stack too much, how dumb is that.:rolleyes:

Hey I'm just asking questions.. Your the one talkin all the smack!;) All I can say is that you must have one heck of an Ace up your sleeve..:eek2:

Mickey Dunlap

11-30-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Hey I'm just asking questions.. Your the one talkin all the smack!;) All I can say is that you must have one heck of an Ace up your sleeve..:eek2:

Are you one of them skeeeeeerd Can-Am riders or are you looking for a ride?

Pappy

11-30-2006, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Are you one of them skeeeeeerd Can-Am riders or are you looking for a ride?

you know, with a name like "helping HAND"...id be careful who you offer a RIDE:devil: :blah:

jb500ex

11-30-2006, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Are you one of them skeeeeeerd Can-Am riders or are you looking for a ride?

both

Quad18star

11-30-2006, 07:56 PM

I'm anxious to see what develops out of this .

I think it's just too bad that the Stock class isn't the most recognized class .

Wouldn't it be great to see manufacturers sponsor pro riders to race the stock class on stock machines? I mean it would be a huge selling point having a rider take a stock machine to the podium position . It would prove that they have the toughest machine out there .

What I find "wrong" with the other Utility classes , is that it doesn't prove who has the Best machine . Manufacturers can state that their machine won a class and use it in all their advertising saying it's the most powerful and strongest , but in really it's false advertising . Sure a machine is tough after you gusset the hell out of a frame , sure it's got the best suspension after you spend $4000 on aftermarket shocks and sure it's the most powerful after the engine has been totally tweaked with thousands of dollars invested . Prove to the industry that your brand is the best out there ... race it and sponsor stock class riders . It's like any of the manufacturers dirtbike models . the advertising always states that they have the best machine so if you want to win , you better ride their model .... they should have a little disclaimer that tells you your bike won't be as good as Carmichaels since your bike won't come off the showroom floor and have a value of $50 000 + .

Like it was said before , where does the largest purse go to ?? The Pro class in any discipline . And in those classes , you can't compete unless you have the best of the best in aftermarket parts , you can't compete unless you have the backing from numerous sponsors ...where , IMO, the largest purse should be to the rider that can perform to the best of their abilities on a Stock machine ... because then you aren't testing the abilities of the machine , you are testing the abilities of the rider .

465Stroker

11-30-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Are you one of them skeeeeeerd Can-Am riders or are you looking for a ride?

I want the podium and to do that I need to go 2 minutes faster per lap than the fastest Utility riders out there. I truly feel the Can Am Outlander / Renegade is the best platform to reach that goal with. Maybe a V-force ...

PeeWee21

12-01-2006, 03:56 AM

Good posts Rick!!!! Helping Hand is here to talk smack...and nothing else. :rolleyes:

coolguy8769

12-01-2006, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Good posts Rick!!!! Helping Hand is here to talk smack...and nothing else. :rolleyes:

talk smack? :rolleyes: the thread was about the rule changes and how an aftermarket companie had an enfluance on the sport. Every post in here by you had a certin "tone" to it, which cause a certin reaction

lsittingbull

12-01-2006, 05:34 AM

lsittingbull

12-01-2006, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Good posts Rick!!!! Helping Hand is here to talk smack...and nothing else. :rolleyes:

At this moment and time, the man can back it up. :ermm:

GE4x4

12-01-2006, 05:43 AM

Well RP just posted that 840cc will be the limit.

xchamp

12-01-2006, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
Well RP just posted that 840cc will be the limit.

Mickey, get that 840 kit ready for me!:eek2:

PeeWee21

12-01-2006, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by coolguy8769
talk smack? :rolleyes: the thread was about the rule changes and how an aftermarket companie had an enfluance on the sport. Every post in here by you had a certin "tone" to it, which cause a certin reaction

No, the the topic was about Can Am wanting a cc limit to the class and them being "skeered" of MD 900cc Brute Force or KFX700 or what ever the hell he was building. The topic was poking fun at Can Am being afraid.

Hell yes every one of my posts in this thread has a tone to it, busting open the rules with 900cc motors that cost a racer out the arse to afford is really healthy for the sport.:rolleyes:
....especially when it is finally growing like we all have wanted.

As for him backing it up....build the same cc motor and that would be backing it up.....not building something with 100cc more.:rolleyes:

I'm done with this thread, it's a joke. Look at me i'm gonna build a 900cc KFX 700 to outrun Can Am's 800cc Sport Ute.....yep, that's bragging rights right there!!!!

:rolleyes:

xchamp

12-01-2006, 07:02 AM

Believe Me he doesnt need 100 extra cc's to blow away a can-am, one his 700 standard bore kits can put out 60rwhp with stock carbs! So he can actually do it with 100cc's less if he wanted to! The rumor was he was going to build 900's and look at the attention it got:rolleyes: !

GE4x4

12-01-2006, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by xchamp
Believe Me he doesnt need 100 extra cc's to blow away a can-am, one his 700 standard bore kits can put out 60rwhp with stock carbs! So he can actually do it with 100cc's less if he wanted to! The rumor was he was going to build 900's and look at the attention it got:rolleyes: !

Now this is funny. I haven't seen one person with a stock bore getting those numbers. Heck even some of the smaller BB kits that have been dynoed are not getting those numbers. I think you mean crank and not at the wheels.

V-powered 730

12-01-2006, 07:20 AM

I think its to early in the morning and everyone still has their eyes shut! Yes 60 horsepower is possible with stock bore. Everyone keep getting Mickey fired up, because he will just build the motor even better. Two minute faster lap times? Somebody better be getting an FST motor!

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 07:53 AM

Yes I was poking fun at Can-Am for going to Racer-x and getting the rules changed to 800cc when their motor is a 806. That was funny! Now it makes them look stupid because Racer had to go back and make it a 840 class.:rolleyes:I don't know why they would even do this but it doesn't matter to me. I had already told my riders they where only getting a 800 or maybe only a 730 but what the heck now they will get 839.75cc motors. :D lol. I'm just having fun with this, if I want to be a dick I would have waited untill the first race, protested them after the race and they would have been found cheeting. This was just more fun this way and it did pump me up for a good year of racing:D You guys live for this stuff!lol

erac4019

12-01-2006, 08:17 AM

I personally love the controversy and cant wait to see the Orange FST bikes back in the pits and on the starting line. It was weird not having them there. My first GNCC was at Power Line park in St.Clairsville(in 01 or 02) and I had no Idea what was going on, so I walked over to "some guy" unloading a few kick ***** quads and bs'd with him for a while and he told me everything I needed to do... Welcome back Mickey.

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Yes I was poking fun at Can-Am for going to Racer-x and getting the rules changed to 800cc when their motor is a 806. That was funny! Now it makes them look stupid because Racer had to go back and make it a 840 class.:rolleyes:I don't know why they would even do this but it doesn't matter to me. I had already told my riders they where only getting a 800 or maybe only a 730 but what the heck now they will get 839.75cc motors. :D lol. I'm just having fun with this, if I want to be a dick I would have waited untill the first race, protested them after the race and they would have been found cheeting. This was just more fun this way and it did pump me up for a good year of racing:D You guys live for this stuff!lol

Thanks, good to be back, I think:huh

The other news of the day is we might be running another color next year because of a possible Tire Sponsor. Stay tuned:)

xchamp

12-01-2006, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
Now this is funny. I haven't seen one person with a stock bore getting those numbers. Heck even some of the smaller BB kits that have been dynoed are not getting those numbers. I think you mean crank and not at the wheels.

Well if you followed KR last spring when the big dyno day was at VFJ's shop, J.Mclures Standard Bore FST 700 kit was in the mid to high 50's at the REAR WHEELS with stock carbs and no PORTING. So yes 60 RWHP is very attainable with a 700 kit. Mick's 900 kit is only getting 75 RWHP!

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Quad18star
I'm anxious to see what develops out of this .

I think it's just too bad that the Stock class isn't the most recognized class .

Wouldn't it be great to see manufacturers sponsor pro riders to race the stock class on stock machines? I mean it would be a huge selling point having a rider take a stock machine to the podium position . It would prove that they have the toughest machine out there .

What I find "wrong" with the other Utility classes , is that it doesn't prove who has the Best machine . Manufacturers can state that their machine won a class and use it in all their advertising saying it's the most powerful and strongest , but in really it's false advertising . Sure a machine is tough after you gusset the hell out of a frame , sure it's got the best suspension after you spend $4000 on aftermarket shocks and sure it's the most powerful after the engine has been totally tweaked with thousands of dollars invested . Prove to the industry that your brand is the best out there ... race it and sponsor stock class riders . It's like any of the manufacturers dirtbike models . the advertising always states that they have the best machine so if you want to win , you better ride their model .... they should have a little disclaimer that tells you your bike won't be as good as Carmichaels since your bike won't come off the showroom floor and have a value of $50 000 + .

Like it was said before , where does the largest purse go to ?? The Pro class in any discipline . And in those classes , you can't compete unless you have the best of the best in aftermarket parts , you can't compete unless you have the backing from numerous sponsors ...where , IMO, the largest purse should be to the rider that can perform to the best of their abilities on a Stock machine ... because then you aren't testing the abilities of the machine , you are testing the abilities of the rider .

They do race stock utilitys, it's called WPSA. The only problem is with the stock class you have more cheaters then ever. Wait untill the WPSA starts and I bring the Mobile Dyno people to the race. I'm going to bring bone stock Quads there to dyno, then protest the winners to see if their RWHP matches the true stock quads. This is the only way I can see to keep everyone on the up and up. It's sad to say but when you get money, TV and big sponsors involed it's going to get wild and nasty. :eek:

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Thanks, good to be back, I think:huh

The other news of the day is we might be running another color next year because of a possible Tire Sponsor. Stay tuned:)

And the new 839.75 will be in the 80's. lol

GE4x4

12-01-2006, 08:46 AM

Never saw that post, but have seen many 730 and 800's only getting high 40 to low 50" at the wheels. One guy was upset that his 800 was only getting about 54rwhp. Still a lot, but a lot of these bb kits are told to have high numbers, so many take that as fact. But some take them to dynos and get a rude awakening. Most builders have there own dyno numbers and there high, just look at Trinity and what they say you get out of there exhaust. But I have not seen one stock bore KFX700 with dyno numbers getting 60rwhp. That would be impressive allmost doubling hp from stock.

GE4x4

12-01-2006, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
They do race stock utilitys, it's called WPSA. The only problem is with the stock class you have more cheaters then ever. Wait untill the WPSA starts and I bring the Mobile Dyno people to the race. I'm going to bring bone stock Quads there to dyno, then protest the winners to see if their RWHP matches the true stock quads. This is the only way I can see to keep everyone on the up and up. It's sad to say but when you get money, TV and big sponsors involed it's going to get wild and nasty. :eek:

They should have that at the GNCC to as it would be faster then a tare down. It's funny when you see stock Prairies passing v-forces with all bolt on's in the open fields. Or stock 450R blowing by another stock 450. Those HRC kits are easy to hide.

V-powered 730

12-01-2006, 08:55 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GE4x4
[B]They should have that at the GNCC to as it would be faster then a tare down. It's funny when you see stock Prairies passing v-forces with all bolt on's in the open fields. Or stock 450R blowing by another stock 450. Those HRC kits are easy to hide.

I would definetly like to see that.

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
Never saw that post, but have seen many 730 and 800's only getting high 40 to low 50" at the wheels. One guy was upset that his 800 was only getting about 54rwhp. Still a lot, but a lot of these bb kits are told to have high numbers, so many take that as fact. But some take them to dynos and get a rude awakening. Most builders have there own dyno numbers and there high, just look at Trinity and what they say you get out of there exhaust. But I have not seen one stock bore KFX700 with dyno numbers getting 60rwhp. That would be impressive allmost doubling hp from stock.

Your right motor builders with dyno's always tell about big numbers they make, I hate that! The 800 with 54rwhp you are talking about was a Fundy motor. I don't have a dyno and I only quote HP numbers that someone else dynoed. I like my butt dyno it's is always with in 1% of a real dyno but better. Most dynos just read peak HP and doesn't tell you how it performs in the real world. I like to build my motors to work their best with the type of riding you are doing. We don't need all the Hp that we will have but when you only have a 50 foot long clear spot to pass you better be able to GIT-ER-DONE! We are going to have to pass two or more classes to get the overall so we need to do that quick. To move a 540lb quad quickly you need a torque monster and not a all out HP motor.

GE4x4

12-01-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Your right motor builders with dyno's always tell about big numbers they make, I hate that! The 800 with 54rwhp you are talking about was a Fundy motor. I don't have a dyno and I only quote HP numbers that someone else dynoed. I like my butt dyno it's is always with in 1% of a real dyno but better. Most dynos just read peak HP and doesn't tell you how it performs in the real world. I like to build my motors to work their best with the type of riding you are doing. We don't need all the Hp that we will have but when you only have a 50 foot long clear spot to pass you better be able to GIT-ER-DONE! We are going to have to pass two or more classes to get the overall so we need to do that quick. To move a 540lb quad quickly you need a torque monster and not a all out HP motor.

I'm sure you will have all your ducks in a row when it comes to powering up your quads next year.:macho. Now you just need to find someone who will harness that power.:D Any hints

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
I'm sure you will have all your ducks in a row when it comes to powering up your quads next year.:macho. Now you just need to find someone who will harness that power.:D Any hints

I have the V riders, just waiting on Kilby for the mod. class, and he's waiting on Can-Am. :rolleyes:

GE4x4

12-01-2006, 09:42 AM

How many do you plan on haveing as a team in 07? Who are you V riders?

krt400ex

12-01-2006, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
you know, with a name like "helping HAND"...id be careful who you offer a RIDE:devil: :blah:

LMAO :blah:

Mickey Dunlap

12-01-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by GE4x4
How many do you plan on haveing as a team in 07? Who are you V riders?

I'm not ready to give out that info yet.

Pappy

12-01-2006, 06:29 PM

I heard that FST will have 300 riders :devil:

Quad18star

12-01-2006, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
I heard that FST will have 300 riders :devil:

And Can-Am will still be holding plate #1 on the podium . :devil:

firefighterjosh

12-03-2006, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Quad18star
And Can-Am will still be holding plate #1 on the podium . :devil:

Not with me on the KING:D

Nah...Figures first year for me to try Utility racing and all the rules change:(

WOW this thread really got HUGE!!

jdudding650

12-04-2006, 11:13 AM

07 is going to be interesting. I can't wait till Florida!!!!

scramblerracer

12-04-2006, 04:58 PM

For the guys *****ing about the cost of racing a quad with FST work. How many parts can the Kawasaki prarie racer buy with the $1700 that he save over the renegade.

Or the v force rider that saves $2600. From FST ►900cc Big Bore Stroker Kit
Includes pistons, rings, pins & clips, sleeves, head gaskets, O-rings and stroker crank with heavy-duty rods
$1,595 Still have money for beadlocks, tires. Thanks FST for coming back to GNCC. I can't wait to see those orange quads on the line.

jdudding650

12-04-2006, 06:27 PM

Or the v force rider that saves $2600. From FST ►900cc Big Bore Stroker Kit
Includes pistons, rings, pins & clips, sleeves, head gaskets, O-rings and stroker crank with heavy-duty rods
$1,595 Still have money for beadlocks, tires. Thanks FST for coming back to GNCC. I can't wait to see those orange quads on the line. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your right if I buy a V-force they are cheaper, but I am not getting nearly as good of a product. I am not saying the kawi is a bad machine. but it doesn't have 4 wheel drive, suspension is much better on the outlander/renegade, efi, and a full support rig at every race that will help you wether your a factory backed Can-am rider or not. That alone is worth a ton of money if you ask me. I know for a fact (not speaking for Rick Cecco), but he and I both had races last season that if it wasn't for their help we wouldn't have finished the race. Neither of us are Can-am Factory riders. Anyone who comes to the trailer even the guy who only runs one race for the fun of it. I always see the guys at the Can-am rig wiring up kill switches etc.
I have nothing against anyone or anything. The more attention and effort that all these teams put in does nothing but make our sport better. I am glad FST is fielding a team, I wish there were ten more teams. All I am saying is don't jump on the Anti-Can-am band wagon. I didn't see anyone else pulling up at races in semi's for utilities till they did it. I didn't see any other manufacturer putting the time and effort into a sport that was sometimes looked at as a novelty.
Can-am has done a great deal in my book and I am proud to ride one.

GE4x4

12-04-2006, 07:09 PM

Well $1600 of that $2600 will be needed right off just for suspension, then another $300 for a IMS fuel tank. Then a set of $70 tie rods. So right there allmost $2000 is gone before you even think about the motor. Also don't forget you need a exhaust with thoses BB kits, and thats a min of $400. So it won't take much to pass the Renegade in price with just bolt ons.

Allmost forgot, thoses BB kits are just kit prices, whats it cost to install??

Mickey Dunlap

12-05-2006, 05:59 AM

LOL, How quickly they forget! Where would utility racing be if Kawasaki and my self didn't give it a big kick in the *** back in 99'. Seems to me Kawasaki was the first brand to support GNCC racing and to kick off factory backed racing since 1986. Kawasaki has had support trucks there in the past and will this year also. The utility side will most likely take a back seat to the 450's, but I know they take care of all riders not just Kawie riders if they can. Having said that I am glad Can-Am is there and this thread was only a dig at them because they tried to change a rule that was pointed right at little old me! As everyone that knows me knows, if your going to take a shot a me you better be ready to go to war :macho lol. More troops will be here this weekend for tryouts and tire testing, so draft is in full affect :D .lol

Horsepower cost money,racing cost money,do you want to win?

465Stroker

12-05-2006, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
More troops will be here this weekend for tryouts and tire testing, so draft is in full affect :D .lol

Where at? I'd like to stop by and see how all that HP stacks up after an hour of running hard in the woods.. :) No BSin' - I think this would be a great eye opener for all of us..
Note - I'm just looking for a good utility race (me riding my own)and cannot wait till Feb..

Mickey Dunlap

12-05-2006, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Where at? I'd like to stop by and see how all that HP stacks up after an hour of running hard in the woods.. :) No BSin' - I think this would be a great eye opener for all of us..
Note - I'm just looking for a good utility race (me riding my own)and cannot wait till Feb..

LOL, Sorry no spys. Didn't you read, this is war! lol

Hey Osama want to come over and sit in on our military meetings! lol Get out of here.:rolleyes:

465Stroker

12-05-2006, 06:59 AM

xchamp

12-05-2006, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
LOL, Sorry no spys. Didn't you read, this is war! lol

Hey Osama want to come over and sit in on our military meetings! lol Get out of here.:rolleyes:

Hey Mick Ill be there in full camo gear, only because im going hunting first, riding second! But at least ill be in my camo, so no one can spy on us:D

Mickey Dunlap

12-05-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by xchamp
Hey Mick Ill be there in full camo gear, only because im going hunting first, riding second! But at least ill be in my camo, so no one can spy on us:D

Good we might need a sniper if Stack and him try sneeking in the back way.lol:devious:

465Stroker

12-05-2006, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by xchamp
Hey Mick Ill be there in full camo gear, only because im going hunting first, riding second! But at least ill be in my camo, so no one can spy on us:D

At least we now know it's going to be on Saturday..:cool:

PeeWee21

12-05-2006, 11:06 AM

Don't worry Rick, you won't be missing alot....a little riding and alot of wrenching!!! lol lol

xchamp

12-05-2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
At least we now know it's going to be on Saturday..:cool:

You can hunt on Sundays in Maryland:rolleyes:

xchamp

12-05-2006, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
Good we might need a sniper if Stack and him try sneeking in the back way.lol:devious:

You know, it has been a very frustrating hunting season for me, I could use a little confidence booster.;)

firefighterjosh

12-05-2006, 08:45 PM

ok so the website shows this

4x4 Open 501-840 Utility
4x4 Lites 0-500cc Utility
4x4 Limited 0-840 Utility
w/ limited modifications
U2 0-840 Utility Unlimited;
No Racks

Were is the stock class? Is that the 4x4 limited? Also it looks like the CC ranger is now 840. I haven't read the whole post so someone might have said this already

Mickey Dunlap

12-07-2006, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
I want the podium and to do that I need to go 2 minutes faster per lap than the fastest Utility riders out there. I truly feel the Can Am Outlander / Renegade is the best platform to reach that goal with. Maybe a V-force ...

I was just looking at lap times of the top utility riders and on the average everyone drops off by 6 min. by the end of the race. I think it's going to come down to how fast you can pull out and pass that first lap. Thats going to take alot of power to out weigh the power to weight problem with the utilities.:ermm:

parkers30

12-07-2006, 07:33 AM

I think thats what Rick is saying he doesn't need all that power but he does need a good handling and powerful quad

didn't he stomp the Mod class on a 650 at the Ironman? and he had a flat tire? :chinese:

Mickey Dunlap

12-07-2006, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by parkers30
I think thats what Rick is saying he doesn't need all that power but he does need a good handling and powerful quad

didn't he stomp the Mod class on a 650 at the Ironman? and he had a flat tire? :chinese:

And Kilby and Parker where out of the race. Who eles was he running with.:rolleyes:

465Stroker

12-07-2006, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
And Kilby and Parker where out of the race. Who eles was he running with.:rolleyes:

How about Powerline Park where everyone finished?? That was my first race on a STOCK 650 Outlander which I bought at the track the day before. If it wasn't for it overheating (no radiator guard) on the 3rd lap I most likely would have won according to lap times. Now yes a 800 would have helped passing other Outlanders in the long field sections but it sure was enough to pass any V-Force or Praire I ran up on..

bradley300

12-07-2006, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Helping Hand
And Kilby and Parker where out of the race. Who eles was he running with.:rolleyes:

got to finish to win right?

good luck in 07 to everyone and go get'em rick!

Mickey Dunlap

12-07-2006, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
How about Powerline Park where everyone finished?? That was my first race on a STOCK 650 Outlander which I bought at the track the day before. If it wasn't for it overheating (no radiator guard) on the 3rd lap I most likely would have won according to lap times. Now yes a 800 would have helped passing other Outlanders in the long field sections but it sure was enough to pass any V-Force or Praire I ran up on..

LOL, I knew that would get you going!:devil:

RCinWV

12-07-2006, 12:34 PM

And Kilby and Parker where out of the race. Who eles was he running with

I can promise you that Bryan Buckhannon and Jerime Dudding are as fast as Kilby.

erac4019

12-07-2006, 01:11 PM

I'm not bustin your balls so dont take this the wrong way, b/c I know those guys are fast, but if they are just as fast as Kilby and Parker why didnt they finish above them at any of the races? Almost all season it was Parker/Kilby 1 and 2 barring any dnfs or mechanical issues.

xchamp

12-07-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by erac4019
I'm not bustin your balls so dont take this the wrong way, b/c I know those guys are fast, but if they are just as fast as Kilby and Parker why didnt they finish above them at any of the races? Almost all season it was Parker/Kilby 1 and 2 barring any dnfs or mechanical issues.

Totally agree with ya. My thoughts exactly. If your just as fast as the top dog you should be able to win a few races. These guys may be pretty fast but I dont recall them winning any races at the GNCC level. And BTW it was usually Parker winning barring a DNF. And what bike was he on?

erac4019

12-07-2006, 02:02 PM

It wasnt an OUTLANDish!!!!

Mickey Dunlap

12-07-2006, 02:06 PM

Ouch!:eek2:

RCinWV

12-07-2006, 03:05 PM

I was not exactly trying to put down Kilby...I was saying that if Rick Cecco won the Ironman he still had very good competition to beat even though Kilby and Brock were out. Dudding and Buckhannon are very legitimate threats to win. Bryan led several times this year and had various problems. I believe he was leading the Wisp and had a flat. He also led for pretty much the whole race at the Ironman and led a lot of the race in Florida and maybe South Carolina and had problems. Look at the lap times. Jerime Dudding had plenty of mechanical issues as well. Overheating at Loretta's, St. Clairsville, and on the last lap of the Ironman I think. Rick Cecco winning the Ironman was no walk in the park with Brock and Kilby out.

Mickey Dunlap

12-07-2006, 03:36 PM

You can be the fastest "rider" in the world, but Shoulda,woulda, coulda doesn't make you a "great racer". Don't tell me what your going to do or what you could have done, tell me what you have done! Scott will be the first to tell you he's not the fastest rider, but 7 championships says he is a great racer. I think Stack is a fast rider, but not a good racer.

Pappy

12-08-2006, 04:46 AM

I think Mickey read Stacks book on "Smack Talk" ....lmao!

erac4019

12-08-2006, 08:42 AM

Well here is a review of the Renegade (http://www.exriders.com./vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269827) . Sounds good, although maybe "a little" biased, but I still cant wait to see what happens in Fla. There is NO DOUBT that FST can build a motor and chassis using the V-Force that can equal or better the CanAm, so just as always in racing it will come down to the rider and who can finish the the race in one piece. It gonna be a great year, though I am a little biased, I love my BF650 sra and cant wait to see who will be riding for Mickey.

Mickey Dunlap

12-08-2006, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by erac4019
Well here is a review of the Renegade (http://www.exriders.com./vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269827) . Sounds good, although maybe "a little" biased, but I still cant wait to see what happens in Fla. There is NO DOUBT that FST can build a motor and chassis using the V-Force that can equal or better the CanAm, so just as always in racing it will come down to the rider and who can finish the the race in one piece. It gonna be a great year, though I am a little biased, I love my BF650 sra and cant wait to see who will be riding for Mickey.

LOL,I can't wait to see who rides for me either. First they have to be able to out ride me on my stock Prairie 650. I'm not a good GNCCer but I can still out ride most.:D :p