Setting up the cam timing

[Puzzled]

Can someone post the pages from the manual on how to setup the cam timing properly? Or send me to a link. It looks to be exactly like my Hayabusa however I'd like to make sure. I WILL be picking up a service manual however I can't get one on a Sunday and I'm working on this now.

With the timing mark on "T" do both the intake and exhaust cam gear "dots" go horizontal with the head surface?

[wolffie]

answered your question on the pred site. here is a link to my "How To" on here.


http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=252993


it's based off of preddy08's, but i added a few more pics. if you have any questions just pm me;)

[Puzzled]

Thank you to all of you who either posted or PM'd me. I had the timing spot on but had other issues unknown to me. Wolffie your pictures were a big help as they confirmed I had the timing on the compression stroke not the exhaust stroke.

The bike still hasn't fired up but I believe I know why. It appears to be bleeding of compression. It is either coming back through the valves (bent) or through the head gasket (blown). I have no fluids leaks though.

On the positive side, the Dealer took the bike in today to tear it down and figure out what went bad. So far he has been a stand up guy considering I purchased a used bike from him not a new one. So when all is said and done I'll post the props (or not) for the dealer. Until than it is just a dealer!

[wolffie]

yeah sounds good! keep us updated.

keep in mind though some of that stuff can get pricey. new valves are around $40 a piece and usually the more you start tearing in to a problem like that, the more things seem to have gone bad.

if you end up needing a new piston i would reccomend getting either a JE 11:1 or Wiesco 12:5:1. im going with the wiesco because my buddy's engine builder recommended it to me. he said as long as you run a high octane or 50/50 race and pump gas it will be very reliable and affective. since your dealer has to tear your top end apart that may be the way to go.

i should be getting mine back this weekend so i will give you an update on how everything is.

[Puzzled]

I'm a Wiseco dealer so Wiseco it would be. However I have no desire to run anything that doesn't run on pump gas. Been there, done that! My car is 14.76:1. 112-115 octane minimum.

From what I saw the intake valves came into contact with the piston. I looked up stock valves and the book shows them at $14/ intake and $9/exhaust. Now a good set of Ferrara's would be nice. :D It is tough not building a hot rod and keeping this a reliable woods bike.;)

[Predatorguy88]

I had the same problem. I punched a valve. I ordered one for like 25 shipped with new collets cuz mine were gone.

[kc8pnd]

I have never had or been around anyone who has dropped a valve. Does it just go or is there signs?

[Puzzled]

It just goes and goes quick. There is a whole bunch of loud noise for a short period of time followed by dead silence than cursing. If you want to call it luck it will only bend the vales and mar up the piston. The worse case scenerio is that the valve breaks and punches a hole in the piston and leaves really nasty marks in the head.

[Puzzled]

Another.

[wolffie]

ouch. those pics make me cringe!


valves start to wear/break when dirt makes it's way into the engine. gauze style filters (aka K@N) if not correctly protected with a pre filter or the airbox lid have a higher tendency to let dirt in versus foam. the trade off is gauze offer better performance because of the increased flow.

[Puzzled]

Those pictures are of my Busa and show what happens when a $.03 washer makes it's way into the cylinder! A valve leaves the same marks. Because of that $.03 washer I installed all new valves and gaskets. That wasn't fun.

[wolffie]

yeah dont feel bad. i took a gamble with a HOnda Civic intake, and thats how i ended up messing up my valves. prolly going to be like a $300 fix for just labor. but hey, you learn from you mistakes.

[Puzzled]

Talked to the mechanic at the dealership yesterday and was told that the gear on the cam had spun. This moved the timing by about 6 teeth is their best guess. They moved the cam the six teeth and the bike fired right up. So they ordered a new cam and gear and it is on it's way. My concern is the noise I heard (valves hitting the piston) and head gasket damage if there was any head lift. Mechanic stated that he checked compression and obviously it was fine as the biked runs.

I'm not certain on how to approach this as I'd like them to look for any possible damage and they seem content on what they have done. They are only a few bolts away from pulling the head. What will it cost, a head gasket and some time for pulling the exhaust.

On that note I should see my bike back by the end of next week. At that time I'll ride this thing pretty hard to make sure it is 100% OK. If not I'm on the fence whether they will see it again or if I'll just fix it myself.

[kc8pnd]

That sucks! That much force on that sprocket spun it? Those are just pressed on I think. I am surprised the chain didn't snap, maybe it stretched it a little? Might want to look into that also.

[katch26]

def replace that timing chain...I didnt and it ended up costing me 1200. Chain snapped (no engine damage) broke chain guides, cam chain tensioner and lots of little stuff.

[Puzzled]

The dealership called this afternoon and responded to my morning Email. They addressed my concerns about the head gasket and valves. They are going to pull the head and check everything along with the valves. They are also going to flush the motor just to make sure there isn't anything in there also. Again props to the dealer for stepping up and taking care of a customer who will become a customer for life.

[Puzzled]

Well it's finally done! I'm not quite sure when it was done but I was able to pick it up Wednesday. Work didn't allow that so I picked it up yesterday evening.

On my way home I stopped and picked up my new Yamaha 400 Big Bear with IRS. While there they mounted my new tires on the Pred. :) At the tune of $42!

The bike still has the Polaris "tick". ;) It fired right up and idled fine. I rode around the Polaris lot a few times but there wasn't enough space to get on it. I tried to get some speed and RPM's out of it at home but the bike kept cutting out while turning the bars slightly. Though it did feel good on the straights.

Searching for the cutting out issue revealed that the choke cable was a little to taught. The turning of the bars was activating the choke. I rerouted the cable and all seems fine now.

I mounted the new Maier plastics on the bike last night. Overall I like them. You have to use a few "add on" brackets in order to reuse the factory attaching points but they seem sturdy enough to hold up. One of two dislikes was the mismatch of hardware. I now have nickle, zinc, chrome, black oxide, Torx, Allen and Phillips bits. I'll change all that to either stainless or black oxide if I can find some coated stuff. Next would be the tank tabs/bolts. The new plastic attached to the tank rather than resting against it like stock. However the mounting studs are on a slight angle thus the bolt doesn't sit flush against the plastic. I'll have to machine a tapered washer to correct that. The rear fenders require you to cut part of those goofy side panels off. I didn't, I overlapped them and now I need some longer bolts to draw the two together.

So with the bike looking good and running good I'm going to go and get it dirty tomorrow up around Carbondale. That will be the test to see how it works now. At least this time I'll have a back up bike. :D

[wolffie]

hey post up some pics of the new plastics on the pred.:D

[Puzzled]

I finally was able to ride the bike I've owned for five weeks. Wow. This thing boogies. It wheelies at will regardless of the terrain. Climbing the tall hills is no problem. I'm very happy with it.:D The suspension is great after coming off of a Warrior. The turning response is a little slow in comparison but the ability to kick the rear out at will compensates for that.;)

I'll get some good pictures of the bike after I clean it up. It may be a few days as I HAVE to go Christmas shopping this week.:(

[MentalState]

Puzzled?

Arent you also on Custom chopper web site? you have that wicked bagger also?? and a hiabusa???


if so waz -up...

[Puzzled]

That's me.:D I have a few toys. After poking around this site awhile there are some serious four wheelers out there.:) I've run into a few Chopper site guys on here. I also came across a Chopper guy while on a Mustang site. It's a small world after all.

[katch26]

pm sent at predatorowners

[Puzzled]

Received it.:)

and

Responded.:D

[MentalState]

Yeah quads are my first love then my chopper...If you ever around NH with your quad or bike look me up...

[Puzzled]

Will do.:D

[Puzzled]

The SAGA continues.......:(

I was able to ride in Carbondale the entire day without a single problem. Two weekends later we went to Burnt Mills to ride. Again the bike ran perfect. The following weekend of the 14th we went to Marshall's Creek to ride. About 45 minutes to an hour after getting there the bike makes a loud noise in the motor and quits. :( This can't be good. I roll the bike out and onto the truck.

First thing Monday morning I'm at the dealers dropping off my bike, again. I had a talk with the owner who has been extremely helpful thus far. He assured me they won't have my bike for a month this time as it was purely bad timing when my bike was there last time. Fair enough.

I called Tuesday to find out what went wrong and was unable to get an answer. The salesman returned my call later that day however I was unable to take the call.

I called again on Thursday and the salesman was going to get an update for me and call me back. When he did not say!:grr:

I called Saturday and was told either the owner or mechanic would call me back. Neither one did.

Here it is Monday and I called this morning only to be told someone will call me later. I'll sit by the phone and wait.:rolleyes:

I head into my office and listen to my messages and there was one from the parts guy from Friday letting me know what parts were ordered for my bike. Hmm how did I miss that call?:o

So I called the parts guy back nd was handed over to the mechanic. Remember him? He was the guy I wanted in the beginning?:confused:

Well it seems the bike has jumped time again. No damage anywhere just out of time. So a timing chain and adjuster was ordered for it to eliminate that from happening again. Since it is all apart they are replacing a bunch of small parts also.

The parts should be here Wed/Thur so with a little luck I'll see it back for the weekend. I'm not holding my breath though as I'm thinking the beginning of next week is more likely.

[Cook 256North]

is there any way to tell if your valves need adjusting. and is there any reason to adjust them if you have put a certain amout of hours on it and they dont seem to need adjusting.

second question is, i keep hearing what sounds like the timing chain slaping around every once in a while during my rides. is this normal, the quad starts right up being both hot and cold and seems to have great power. i also hear a little ticking form the valve train every once in a while at certain rpms. if i give it more gas the ticking will go away. this doesnt occur everytime you hit the same rpm though.