Victory for Democrats

[NorCalRacer]

Dems take the House and Senate. I guess the most vocal opinions aren't always representative of the majority. Personally, I can't wait to see this country turn in a new direction. :D

[Pelon 9-1]

thats cool for the united states!!:D :D

[Cron]

I can't wait for the economy to go south when the democrats raise the minuminum wage and repell all the tax cuts. :mad:

[NorCalRacer]

Yeah, damn cost of living. :rolleyes:

[derekhonda]

tax & spend, tax & spend.

I agree though, something wasn't clicking in washington, but I think our government just took a turn for the worse.

[hondardr4life]

I'm with you guys, I can see the country going downhill from here.

[Pappy]

isnt this a victory for the citizens, not just the democrats.(it is about the citizens and our country right?)


i reckon we will wait and see just as any change of political chemistry. all i see is a new batch of political people. i cant wait to see the sparks fly.

[MOFO]

Just remember when the economy started getting better, gas prices started going down and the stock market is way up who was in office... We all know who is going to try and take credit for that!

the economy is beyond our government....sure they have an influence but there are alot of other things we couldnt control....Michigans economy is one of the worst in the country (if not, rock bottom) and where i live is the worst in Mi (flint)....i see companys going out of business weekly and i dont think the democrats or republicans could have prevented that :rolleyes:

[Robin Hood]

Originally posted by MOFO
Just remember when the economy started getting better, gas prices started going down and the stock market is way up who was in office... We all know who is going to try and take credit for that!

Without taking into consideration how it skyrocketed to over $3 for a decent amount of time?

[infantry317]

Same ****, different day. Don't act like we've never had a democratic government before. Small things will change that Rep's don't like, and then the Dem's will get too fat, then the Rep's take over again, then they get too fat...

It's history, you will never see sweeping change in this country unless there is a world war due to checks and balances.

I just hope this doesn't weaken the countries' defense. I feel it's better to fight overseas than on our soil.

I'd guess we'll all be just fine :D

Originally posted by Pappy
isnt this a victory for the citizens, not just the democrats.(it is about the citizens and our country right?)


i reckon we will wait and see just as any change of political chemistry. all i see is a new batch of political people. i cant wait to see the sparks fly.

i can't believe i'm saying this...;) but i agree!! for to happen what just happened there had to be a serious amount of repubs voting for dems...i just think this went beyond party lines, america wanted/needed a change. now we'll see if (i hope)it happens....

Originally posted by infantry317
Same ****, different day. Don't act like we've never had a democratic government before. Small things will change that Rep's don't like, and then the Dem's will get too fat, then the Rep's take over again, then they get too fat...

It's history, you will never see sweeping change in this country unless there is a world war due to checks and balances.

I just hope this doesn't weaken the countries' defense. I feel it's better to fight overseas than on our soil.

I'd guess we'll all be just fine :D

Pretty good summation.

Just remember -

A new direction doesn't always mean a better direction.

I'm kinda glad the Dems got both the house and senate.

They been carping SO LOOOONG about how everything is SOOO bad, and Bush is the essence of evil and he's never done a single thing right....

OK THEN, Dems.....

So NOW FIX IT.

Put up, or shut up.

(I suspect since the Dems haven't for six years communicated any sort of plan or vision - well, other than "We hate Bush" - they'll implode.)

[quads14589]

so do u think they will pull the troops out then?

[infantry317]

They'll try, but the president legally has A LOT of power when it comes to deploying troops. However, he may have to give in to pressure, but I doubt it, he is in his second term, he can give congress the finger for the next two years if he wants to.

Originally posted by infantry317
They'll try, but the president legally has A LOT of power when it comes to deploying troops. However, he may have to give in to pressure, but I doubt it, he is in his second term, he can give congress the finger for the next two years if he wants to.

If the Dems want us out of Iraq, they can de-fund the war, and its all over. We're out.

They control both houses and have alot of spineless R's that will vote with them.

So Bush has ZERO power on this one. AND ... Bush never uses his veto anyway. Heck....Bush waived the white flag in his press conference yesterday.

SO come on Dems, pony up.

Put your money where your never ending mouth is.

[infantry317]

Ya know, you're right being the troops are ALREADY there and have been for a long time, he can't invoke all his priviledges. The DEMS can save the world now. :devil:

[NorCalRacer]

Originally posted by garandman
If the Dems want us out of Iraq, they can de-fund the war, and its all over. We're out.

They control both houses and have alot of spineless R's that will vote with them.

So Bush has ZERO power on this one. AND ... Bush never uses his veto anyway. Heck....Bush waived the white flag in his press conference yesterday.

SO come on Dems, pony up.

Put your money where your never ending mouth is.


Yeah, republicans are the quiet respectful type:rolleyes: For better or worse, this country is going in a new direction. Personally, I think the garbage that has happened in our economy (not the figures, but reality) is reason enough for change, but remember for those of you that think these people are completely incompetent and absolutely incapable of running government (the same viewpoint you claim all Dems have on Republicans), the Republican majority came up with words of wisdom to help you through these trying times: "If you don't like it, get out."

Not my favorite, but kind of funny when the shoe is on the other foot.

Today the news proved to day that Democrats are gay.:eek2: at less they said republicans:confused:

Originally posted by garandman
Pretty good summation.

Just remember -

A new direction doesn't always mean a better direction.

I'm kinda glad the Dems got both the house and senate.

They been carping SO LOOOONG about how everything is SOOO bad, and Bush is the essence of evil and he's never done a single thing right....

OK THEN, Dems.....

So NOW FIX IT.

Put up, or shut up.

(I suspect since the Dems haven't for six years communicated any sort of plan or vision - well, other than "We hate Bush" - they'll implode.)

i hope we all know there are some pretty big problems in front of us, and that it won't be fixed overnight....but i believe because of what happened that both parties will now realize that we are holding them accountable, and they will do whats right by the people. i'm also hoping that the dems will move more towards the middle, as i think that the polarization in politics and this country is not good(it may have also been the repubs undoing)...it seems to make people enemies, when we should just be people with a difference of opinion...i'm also pretty sure that if the dems don't do what's right by the people they will be gone soon also....the american public seems to be getting smarter and invovled, and that's good for the country...just my opinions..:)

[popo]

Originally posted by quads14589
so do u think they will pull the troops out then?

Bill Clinton "Dem" was the master of pulling out :devil:

[rtm1216]

Originally posted by dlerch
i hope we all know there are some pretty big problems in front of us, and that it won't be fixed overnight....but i believe because of what happened that both parties will now realize that we are holding them accountable, and they will do whats right by the people. i'm also hoping that the dems will move more towards the middle, as i think that the polarization in politics and this country is not good(it may have also been the repubs undoing)...it seems to make people enemies, when we should just be people with a difference of opinion...i'm also pretty sure that if the dems don't do what's right by the people they will be gone soon also....the american public seems to be getting smarter and invovled, and that's good for the country...just my opinions..:)

+1

I believe the Dems will do all they can to get this country back on track. They need to or else they will get the boot just like the repubs did.

Originally posted by dlerch
i hope we all know there are some pretty big problems in front of us, and that it won't be fixed overnight....but i believe because of what happened that both parties will now realize that we are holding them accountable, and they will do whats right by the people. i'm also hoping that the dems will move more towards the middle, as i think that the polarization in politics and this country is not good


I agree. Its not good.

I'm glad the Dems won. Now they have to actually FIX things instead of just blaming the Repubs. They'll whine less now they have power, and I'm predicting soon we'll hear about what a wonderful economy we have, and how good the stock market is, and how much gas prices have dropped, and maybe even all the troops have accomplished in Iraq, and how that's all their accomplishemnts (even tho it all happenned before they got both houses of Congress) You heard this prediction here first.

The problem is a BIG chunck of the Dems money comes from the looney left - the Michael Moore, George cLooney, Cindy Sheehan, George Soros crowd.

They want Bush's head....on a pike.

And they expect the Dems to impeach Bush, and try him as a war criminal .I'm not making this stuff up. Read DemocratUnderground.com

They are looney as a moon bat.

So I'll be surpised if there is any moderation by the Dems. The folks paying the bills won't stand for it.


Good luck with that.

I thank God every day I'm not a Democrat.

[rtm1216]

Originally posted by garandman
I agree. Its not good.

I'm glad the Dems won. Now they have to actually FIX things instead of just blaming the Repubs. They'll whine less now they have power, and I'm predicting soon we'll hear about what a wonderful economy we have, and how good the stock market is, and how much gas prices have dropped, and maybe even all the troops have accomplished in Iraq, and how that's all their accomplishemnts (even tho it all happenned before they got both houses of Congress) You heard this prediction here first.

The problem is a BIG chunck of the Dems money comes from the looney left - the Michael Moore, George cLooney, Cindy Sheehan, George Soros crowd.

They want Bush's head....on a pike.

And they expect the Dems to impeach Bush, and try him as a war criminal .I'm not making this stuff up. Read DemocratUnderground.com

They are looney as a moon bat.

So I'll be surpised if there is any moderation by the Dems. The folks paying the bills won't stand for it.


Good luck with that.

I thank God every day I'm not a Democrat.

The Dems have already stated they would not seek impeachment. By having control of both houses of Congress they have already rendered Bush powerless, there is no need to throw him out of office.

The Democratic Underground is not sponsored by the DNC. It is a blog where people post their opinions. There are just as many right wing blogs that state things just as ridiculous, such as nuking the entire Middle East, throwing all middle eastern people out of the US, abolishing Social Security immediately (the elderly current collecting can fend for themselves) and advocating that anyone who disagrees with Bush should be tried for treason. It goes both ways. The Dems are pushing a centrist attitude (just like it was under Clinton when the houses were split) as a way of doing business.

They will not do anything too extreme. They have learned just as much as the repubs did on Tuesday. Namely, if the majority feels they are not being represented then they will change their representation.

[400EXTRA]

who wants no guns you idiots pres bush has even supported atvs you guys are idiots

Originally posted by 400EXTRA
who wants no guns you idiots pres bush has even supported atvs you guys are idiots

i believe this to be a little extreme...i don't think the dems are in to taking guns away...i think they are just saying that you don't need 8 ak-47's to hunt deer...i do understand it could be a slippery slope though to taking other rights...so some fear is warranted....i just really believe the dems now know what the score is and will do what is best....if not they realize that their time will be short....like rtm said "the majority has spoken" and they will speak again if need be....

[jb500ex]

wow what do you republicans think of this statement

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld acknowledged Thursday progress in the Iraq war has not been going “well enough or fast enough” in his first extended remarks since announcing his resignation under political pressure.

[popo]

Originally posted by jb500ex
wow what do you republicans think of this statement

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld acknowledged Thursday progress in the Iraq war has not been going “well enough or fast enough” in his first extended remarks since announcing his resignation under political pressure.

I should have figured you would be a dahm democritic. :macho

[rtm1216]

Originally posted by jb500ex
wow what do you republicans think of this statement

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld acknowledged Thursday progress in the Iraq war has not been going “well enough or fast enough” in his first extended remarks since announcing his resignation under political pressure.

So basically he has been lying to the American public for awhile now when he would say everything is going fine. Kinda like how Bush 'FLIP-FLOPPED' from his statement last week where he assured everyone that Rumsfeld was staying until the end of Bush's term. That lasted all of what.... twelve hours after the election. Or maybe how the plan has never been 'stay the course'. The admin has not been candid with us. They apparently were under the assumption that the public was stupid and wouldn't catch on. Guess what...... they were very wrong.

[swampfoxsc]

Originally posted by dlerch
i believe this to be a little extreme...i don't think the dems are in to taking guns away...i think they are just saying that you don't need 8 ak-47's to hunt deer...

The words "hunt", "hunting", "sport shooting" and "target shooting" are not found in the Constitution. It's not a "need", but a "right" to own a semi-automatic civilain version of the AK-47.:mad:

[rtm1216]

Originally posted by swampfoxsc
The words "hunt", "hunting", "sport shooting" and "target shooting" are not found in the Constitution. It's not a "need", but a "right" to own a semi-automatic civilain version of the AK-47.:mad:

Exactly!!!!

Same as my right to Habeus Corpus and to not have my property searched w/o a warrant (my phoneline being my property per the Supreme Court). The republicans have been working hard to take them from me.

[Pappy]

With the exception of a few Left wing Democrats, the majority that were elected are moderate to conservative in thier views, this will allow some change but they want thier jobs so there wont be anything huge. The presidential election will be where we see sweeping differences in ideology based on party lines.


Even Nancy Polosy(I probably spelled that wrong but I dont follow politics enough to know how to spell it) has suddenly dropped her banter and rhetoric about the war and what a mental case Bush is, she doesnt need that front any more, she is where she needs to be.

Politics is legalized criminals elected to handle you and your money, what moniker they have on thier sleeve means squat. They are all jackazzes in my book.

Now....if you believed taht the big oil behind Bush dropped the price to help the Rep's win, then logically we can expect a similiar increase.

And seeing the Iranians and Syrians cheering over the election should send a strong message. When your sworn enemies start having an impact on the way this country is run, then whitney houston we have a problem, and I dont see ANY leader yet in this country that can handle what we face...and we will face it.

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by popo
I should have figured you would be a dahm democritic. :macho

atually im neither, and have gone with more republican until bush jr. i knew of his past record of failure with everything his daddy got him and did not want this clown as president. i have seen the republican party change from what a real republican is. so now i will vota all dem or independent until all trash is gone and the new republican's get the message

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by Pappy


Politics is legalized criminals elected to handle you and your money, what moniker they have on thier sleeve means squat. They are all jackazzes in my book.

.

your absloutely correct on this. im hoping for a strong independent in the next presidential election. hopefully a decent human that is actually looking out for the country and people

[Bill Fuller]

Amnesty for illegals will be next:mad: This country is going in the wrong direction quickly.Who knows whats in store for us in the next 3-5 yrs.:(

[popo]

Originally posted by Bill Fuller
direction quickly.Who knows whats in store for us in the next 3-5 yrs.:(

Hillary Clinton as the pres. God help us.

I'll move to Mexico if that happens. :huh

[infantry317]

On gun control...The original intent of "To keep and bear arms" was so that citizens could OVERTHROW a government when it got out of control and to be members of the militia. So an "assault" rifle is a pea-shooter compared to the US arsenal :D .

[jdwxv3]

Anybody have a huge feild I can bury myself in so I can try and get away from the Nukes that are going to fly after we get a democrat for pres;)

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Pappy
And seeing the Iranians and Syrians cheering over the election should send a strong message. When your sworn enemies start having an impact on the way this country is run, then whitney houston we have a problem, and I dont see ANY leader yet in this country that can handle what we face...and we will face it.

Agree 100%.

[fofity]

you guys must not be into politics to much because the "crazy left wing democrats" aren't exactly the ones that got elected, a lot of them are more moderate. if you noticed they pretty much dropped the whole gun and abortion thing and they already said impeachment is off the table for pres Bush. in a way I am glad they won now the conservatives can sit back and look at themselves and find out what they did wrong. many moderate conservatives i listen to and watch say the same thing. the ones in power now don't really stand for what conservatives used to be about, limited government, tight spending among other things they basically got hijacked by the extreme Christian right and stopped caring about the majority of the people. face it the power got to their heads and they got arrogant and the best thing for the country now is bi partisan ship, something both sides of the political spectrum are saying they hope to achieve.

Originally posted by jb500ex
your absloutely correct on this. im hoping for a strong independent in the next presidential election. hopefully a decent human that is actually looking out for the country and people

I'm hoping Jesus comes back, cuz I'm sick of all this.

Originally posted by fofity
you guys must not be into politics to much because the "crazy left wing democrats" aren't exactly the ones that got elected, a lot of them are more moderate. if you noticed they pretty much dropped the whole gun and abortion thing and they already said impeachment is off the table for pres Bush.

We'll see.

If they can go from the looney, whack job, Bush is Satan, America sucks mantra BACK to the middle of the road Clintonian moderate position of the mid 90's, then these guys are the slickest, slimiest chameleons I've ever seen, with NO core principles, other than "We MUST be in power."



in a way I am glad they won now the conservatives can sit back and look at themselves and find out what they did wrong.

Conservatives didn't make any mistakes.

Republicans did.

There's a difference.

[NorCalRacer]

The sentiments of some extreme Democrats are not reprsentative of the whole, far from it. The same with Republicans. Extremists will always press their point of view the loudest. People who profess that the other party is made up entirely of wack jobs, cowards, liars etc. are merely expressing their own ignorance and their hurry to discredit the other side at any cost. If the whole country was made up of the people you claim it is it would cease to function.

As far as the slimy chameleon quote, about the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time considering the Republican issues as of lately, but it proves a great point about blind ignorance. One party can be criticized for what the other can do freely. Republicans have never stopped for one second with their criticism of Democrats, we just never tried to call them traitors.
In fact, I hear much more criticism of Dems every week than I hear about Republicans in a year, and I live in a blue state.

Like I said before, the most vocal opinions aren't always representative of the majority.

Originally posted by NorCalRacer
[B]The sentiments of some extreme Democrats are not reprsentative of the whole, far from it. The same with Republicans. Extremists will always press their point of view the loudest. People who profess that the other party is made up entirely of wack jobs, cowards, liars etc. are merely expressing their own ignorance and their hurry to discredit the other side at any cost. If the whole country was made up of the people you claim it is it would cease to function.

Well, then the Democrats need to take the microphone out of the hands of Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house) , Harry Reid (speaker of the senate) , Michael Moore (celeb buffoon) , John Kerry (pres nominee) Al Gore (pres nomiee) , Howard AAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Dean (Head of DNC ) and let's all hear from some of these "reasonable, moderate" Dems. :huh

Fact is, Dem whack jobs are all I hear. The whack jobs hold all the power. And the reasonable Dems (ala Joe Lieberman) get kicked out of the party.



Repubs have REAL problems too. But national democrats are nuthin' if not Marxist scary.

[Pappy]

I'd agree with teh wack job left. They are who we as normal everyday not partisan citizens see nightly. I know the real info is out there, but when all you see is some top Democrat on the 6 o'clock news calling the president a mental case, most folks tend to believe it as its all they hear. (not defending or condemning, just showing how the average gump gets his info and bases his/her decisions on)


The far left has been quiet the past few days for the most part, they have done thier job of selling thier "America is doomed" message and now they can kick back and reap the rewards that will come to them by thier friends now in a position of power. Same game, new players at the table, its still craps.

Prime example was the utterly disgusting race based advertising done in Alabama I believe. When you run ad's that tell the voters if you vote republican the future will be worse then the 60's with firehoses and dogs. It is hard to make a clear decision when you are scared into one side or the others games. I for one found it pathetic, and one of the lowest forms of propaganda i've ever seen. When you compare todays society to that of the racist period in the late 60's then IMO you should be barred from any form of public service. This was an out right lie and no where, even in the riots in California has anything like that taken place in our modern era. Shameful, and if the black leadership doesnt denounce it, then maybe we should go right along with it and have KKK members in ad's to scare whites back to the voting booth:rolleyes: This country has serious serious issues that NOONE is ready to address on either side.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by Pappy


Prime example was the utterly disgusting race based advertising done in Alabama I believe. When you run ad's that tell the voters if you vote republican the future will be worse then the 60's with firehoses and dogs. It is hard to make a clear decision when you are scared into one side or the others games. I for one found it pathetic, and one of the lowest forms of propaganda i've ever seen. When you compare todays society to that of the racist period in the late 60's then IMO you should be barred from any form of public service. This was an out right lie and no where, even in the riots in California has anything like that taken place in our modern era. Shameful, and if the black leadership doesnt denounce it, then maybe we should go right along with it and have KKK members in ad's to scare whites back to the voting booth:rolleyes: This country has serious serious issues that NOONE is ready to address on either side.

Man and I thought things in our government were bad !!!! Worst I've seen as of late in our government was Peter McKay calling his ex-girlfriend , who is now a member of the opposition, a dog . :p

Originally posted by Quad18star
Man and I thought things in our government were bad !!!! Worst I've seen as of late in our government was Peter McKay calling his ex-girlfriend , who is now a member of the opposition, a dog . :p

American politics....its a full contact sport.

:eek2:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by garandman
American politics....its a full contact sport.

:eek2:

LOL...I think the far east has us beat. Nothing better then watching a full on brawl between 4 or 5 china men in suits..lol BANZIA!

[mxduner]

you guys provide alot of good veiws, however, where does this leave us as atv enthusiasts? coming from a typically blue state it's a disgrace the trails or lack of, we have here.:mad: with the change in the house and the senate will any thing even change? better or worse :confused:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by mxduner
you guys provide alot of good veiws, however, where does this leave us as atv enthusiasts? coming from a typically blue state it's a disgrace the trails or lack of, we have here.:mad: with the change in the house and the senate will any thing even change? better or worse :confused:

WV is all blue, and we have Hatfield/Mccoy:p Urban Sprawl is impacting alot of us that try and live off the beaten path. Today, the beaten path is being beaten by everyone trying to escape the city yet they bring the city life style with them

[rtm1216]

Originally posted by Pappy
I'd agree with teh wack job left. They are who we as normal everyday not partisan citizens see nightly. I know the real info is out there, but when all you see is some top Democrat on the 6 o'clock news calling the president a mental case, most folks tend to believe it as its all they hear. (not defending or condemning, just showing how the average gump gets his info and bases his/her decisions on)


The far left has been quiet the past few days for the most part, they have done thier job of selling thier "America is doomed" message and now they can kick back and reap the rewards that will come to them by thier friends now in a position of power. Same game, new players at the table, its still craps.

Prime example was the utterly disgusting race based advertising done in Alabama I believe. When you run ad's that tell the voters if you vote republican the future will be worse then the 60's with firehoses and dogs. It is hard to make a clear decision when you are scared into one side or the others games. I for one found it pathetic, and one of the lowest forms of propaganda i've ever seen. When you compare todays society to that of the racist period in the late 60's then IMO you should be barred from any form of public service. This was an out right lie and no where, even in the riots in California has anything like that taken place in our modern era. Shameful, and if the black leadership doesnt denounce it, then maybe we should go right along with it and have KKK members in ad's to scare whites back to the voting booth:rolleyes: This country has serious serious issues that NOONE is ready to address on either side.

Turn the page back to the 90's and you will see republicans on every news cast doing nothing but talking smack about Clinton and the Dems. They also dis-credited the conflicts in Kosova and when we did enforce sanctions in Iraq.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

The republicans also put out some pretty disgusting ads. The ad against Harold Ford Jr was bad. It was obviously playing on his race. Or how George Allen was trying to link works of FICTION written by Webb as part of his ethical / moral make-up. The Dem ads were just as bad too.

[Pappy]

Tired of turning pages, time for a new book.

Originally posted by Pappy
Tired of turning pages, time for a new book.

The Republicans have one mroe shot with me.... all depending on who they put up as their 2008 Presidential candidate.

If its McCain or Giuliani or some other mush minded moderate, I'm done with them. I'll concentrate on buying more guns and ammo, then drop out and wait for the apocalypse. :eek2:

If they put up a good conservative who can communicate conservative principles effectively, I'm there.

We don't need this wimpy "bi-partisanship." " Bi-partisans" are people without core values. We need statesmen, men of principle, who stand firm on Conservative ideals, and understand charity is best done by individuals, not governments.

That's what I'm looking for.

If they don't come thru, I'm done with the Republican Party, becasue they no longer represernt me. They are just socialism by a new name.

Originally posted by garandman
The Republicans have one mroe shot with me.... all depending on who they put up as their 2008 Presidential candidate.

If its McCain or Giuliani or some other mush minded moderate, I'm done with them. I'll concentrate on buying more guns and ammo, then drop out and wait for the apocalypse. :eek2:

If they put up a good conservative who can communicate conservative principles effectively, I'm there.

We don't need this wimpy "bi-partisanship." " Bi-partisans" are people without core values. We need statesmen, men of principle, who stand firm on Conservative ideals, and understand charity is best done by individuals, not governments.

That's what I'm looking for.

If they don't come thru, I'm done with the Republican Party, becasue they no longer represernt me. They are just socialism by a new name.

are you really this extreme, or are you just saying this to be funny?

[NorCalRacer]

Originally posted by garandman
The Republicans have one mroe shot with me.... all depending on who they put up as their 2008 Presidential candidate.

If its McCain or Giuliani or some other mush minded moderate, I'm done with them. I'll concentrate on buying more guns and ammo, then drop out and wait for the apocalypse. :eek2:

If they put up a good conservative who can communicate conservative principles effectively, I'm there.

We don't need this wimpy "bi-partisanship." " Bi-partisans" are people without core values. We need statesmen, men of principle, who stand firm on Conservative ideals, and understand charity is best done by individuals, not governments.

That's what I'm looking for.

If they don't come thru, I'm done with the Republican Party, becasue they no longer represernt me. They are just socialism by a new name.

Have fun waiting for the end of the world in your bomb shelter. Obviously, in your opinion unless Conservative ideals are upheld this country is doomed. Maybe having principles and core values involves more than ideology, maybe not. However, these "Conservative principles" you hold so dearly are rejected by over half the country, so you better get used to it. I'd vote for McCain in a second. Extreme Conservatives are scary to me:eek2:

Originally posted by dlerch
are you really this extreme, or are you just saying this to be funny?

I always tried to live by the principle "Say what you mean, mean what you say."

Except for my post you quoted. I actually held back a bit, to not scare bedwetting liberals.





:devil:

[infantry317]

"Character is doing the right thing when no one is looking..."
Collin Powell

Originally posted by NorCalRacer
Have fun waiting for the end of the world in your bomb shelter. Obviously, in your opinion unless Conservative ideals are upheld this country is doomed. Maybe having principles and core values involves more than ideology, maybe not. However, these "Conservative principles" you hold so dearly are rejected by over half the country, so you better get used to it. I'd vote for McCain in a second. Extreme Conservatives are scary to me:eek2:

I don't beleive over half the country is against Conservative principles.

Whenever Conservative principles are clearly communicated, they win in a landslide. (60% + ) Be afraid....be VERY afraid. :p

Bush & the R's lost the last election cuz they are phonies, and abandoned Conservative principles.

[Heybo]

The Liberal Left has taken over the Democrats and the Religous Right has taken over the Republicans. I think any extreme is too much. Too bad that a politician can't just stand up and admit that he believes in principles of both sides without being attacked by his own party. I personally don't favor a bunch of give away the country Liberals or a bunch of believe like us or go to Hell Conservatives. It's time the mainstream people had a politician to represent them.

Originally posted by Heybo
The Liberal Left has taken over the Democrats and the Religous Right has taken over the Republicans. I think any extreme is too much. Too bad that a politician can't just stand up and admit that he believes in principles of both sides without being attacked by his own party. I personally don't favor a bunch of give away the country Liberals or a bunch of believe like us or go to Hell Conservatives. It's time the mainstream people had a politician to represent them.

yeah, and also i'd like to add...why is it "to conservative" or "to liberal" can't it just be what is right?

iraq is going like poop!
more americans should be able to afford health care!
we shouldn't have to pay so much for prescription medication!
the super rich should have to pay their fair share!
big oil and timber should not be able to rape the enviroment!

these statements are just correct...they're not right or left...conservative or liberal....why does what is right by the people have to get a negative title added to it?

Originally posted by dlerch
iraq is going like poop!


The sad part is people accept that statement as fact. But let's LOOK at the facts...

- Took over the country in 2-3 weeks
- Deposed the leader
- Captured the leader
- Recaptured oil wells, and put them back on line
- Set up a court system to try said leader for war crimes
- Court system delivered a guilty verdict, and moved to immediate appeal
- Held national elections
- Elected a legislature
- Enacting a Constitution
- Women are able to attend college / university
- Young girls attending grade school
- Hospitals rebuilt
- Roads and infrastructure rebuilt
- Trained police, military
- Killed al Queda # 2 man al Zarqawi
- Killed deposed leaders sons
- Killed or captured vast majority of "Deck of Cards" targets
- Established diplomatic relations with Iraqi nationals


And that's just what a nobody like me knows about.

Yes, over 3.000 soldiers have died. Every single one a tragedy. BUT THE SOLDIERS IN-COUNTRY ARE CONFIDENT OF THE JOB BEING DONE OVER THERE, AND I SAY WE DEFER TO THEIR OPINION.

Comparatively, IN A SINGLE DAY we lost over 10,000 men just gaining a toe hold in Normandy that was in danger for weeks to come after June 6, 1944.

So if you say Iraq's "going like poop" you woulda REALLY thought WWII was going to crap.

Oh...wait....we won that war.

And we'd win this one too if you weren't going weak in the knees.

Know why Usama has always been confident of winning in Iraq? Cuz of the weak kneed politicians running the war in Somalia.

We cut and run in Somalia, and that emboldened Usama to pull off Sept 11. We're getting ready to cut and run from Iraq, and whoever supports the cut and run Dems will be responsible for the NEXT Sept 11.


The fact is the war in Iraq is quite possibly the most successful war in the history of war.

Unfortunately, in this country, we allow people who know NOTHING of war history to vote, and thereby determine our foreign policy. Weak knees get the same vote as the rest of us, unfortuantely.

That radical enuf for ya, my brother? I'm just getting going. Stay tuned. :) :) :)

Originally posted by Heybo
The Liberal Left has taken over the Democrats and the Religous Right has taken over the Republicans.

I AM the religious right, and I can tell you this Republican Party is NOT taken over by the Religious Right.


In reality, the Marxists have taken over the Dem Party, and the Democrats have taken over the Republican party.

And speaking as the Religious Right, I assure you I DO NOT want the Bible made the law of the land. All I really want is for gov't to leave me alone, stay out of my pocket, let me live in freedom, and return to teh principles laid out by the Founding Fathers..

[sandmanblue]

Originally posted by dlerch
yeah, and also i'd like to add...why is it "to conservative" or "to liberal" can't it just be what is right?

iraq is going like poop!
more americans should be able to afford health care!
we shouldn't have to pay so much for prescription medication!
the super rich should have to pay their fair share!
big oil and timber should not be able to rape the enviroment!

these statements are just correct...they're not right or left...conservative or liberal....why does what is right by the people have to get a negative title added to it?

These examples are exactly why I think there are too many people that actually believe what the mainstream media (factually left biased - not hearsay - go check my source in the now closed thread) says. They are drooling all over themselves now that the dems lied their way into power with their help. And there are plenty of people that apparently don't have the mental capacity to see the obvious...

Iraq going like poop? - Lets see, they have a whole new government, had a 60% election turn out (much more than we ever do) and just because the media is telling you that more soldiers died (during RAMADAN - their HOLY month - what does that say about these scumbags) right before an election that they obviously were able to influence with increased attacks... You tell me what could be going better???? They are getting their way now. TERRORISTS are getting their way thanks to the media and people that fell for their scare tactics. Good job people - hope you want to eventually become muslim... Me? Nope, I wish I could go hunt 'em all down. Thankfully, I own lots of guns - which Hillary will have to pry from my cold dead hands!!!!

More Americans should be able to afford healthcare? Why are costs so high? It's not the drug companies... I have a brother that's a doctor and a wife that's a nurse. The biggest problem in costs is the ridiculous insurance rates to protect doctors from being sued. Two words - TRIAL LAWYERS. The vast majority of which are... you guessed it - DEMS. Dems don't want to curb the lawyers - or they will lose support, and therefore lose power. BTW - just because you were born, doesn't mean you deserve anything! Including healthcare! Especially if I have to pay for some fat arse to smoke and eat himself into the grave. I refuse to give hand outs to people that won't help themselves. You want to pay for crackheads and illegal aliens healthcare? You're insane.

I am so fricken sick of this crap about the rich not paying their share of taxes. That's the old dem playbook and it is the biggest lie of all time. The top 10% income earners pay 60% of the taxes. 60% !!!!!! The top 1% PAY 30% of the total taxes. Since when is it not fair that 1% of the people have to pay 1/3 of the taxes. Go look this up - it's right on the IRS website. You want fair??? How about a flat tax? Everybody pays the same - 17 - 18% is all that's needed. Dems won't let go of this class warfare thing. It's the only way they can get the lower income people's support. It's always "let's take it out of somebody else's pocket" with the dems. Can't stand having to take responsibility for their own actions. Can't stand to watch others have more - cuz they worked harder and are smarter - nope, that's not fair. Well life ain't fair pal. Get used to it. God didn't make us all the same. Some people are smarter and better. The socialist liberal mentality of tax the heck out the rich is the BEST way to ruin the economy and make sure that LOTS of lower income people don't have jobs. This is economics 101. You dems just don't get it.

Oil and timber raping the environment? Timber companies know very well that they can't just cut all the trees down, they need more for tomorrow. They are the ones planting trees for tomorrow. It's the dems that prevent proper forest management. Thanks to the idiots in the Sierra Club, in AZ two years ago we lost over 250,000 acres of forest from fires. If the forest is too dense, it's much easier to burn and now we have nothing to use. NOTHING!

Oil companies are trying to manage what we have - not leave it in the ground and make us MORE dependant on foreign oil. Dems say we should be energy independent - but they won't open up the Alaskan preserve to drilling. Why? Because humans are less important than animals - good ol liberal thinking....

I'm tired of all of this. You can lead a horse to water, but you just can't fix stupid.


It used to be a good thing to be an American, but the dems have bent over and let all those that don't like our democratic capitalistic society have a straight shot right up our rears. Thanks a lot. I guess you dems all like the idea of mohammed bin scumbag behind you.

[coolguy8769]

^^^^^ you my freind should be the next president:macho



All joking aside, I am still a little young to be concerned with politics but either way we go there is always someone who is not going to be happy. This next presidential election could very well possible shape my future, which is scary to think about. It will be my first year voting and I will be open minded, I don’t like how people choose the dem 's and republicans, I don’t like things in black and white sometimes. I am going to choose who ever is the better candidate in my mind, not because they belong to a certain "party"

i disagree , and fella's i would truly love to give an argument, but i'm not allowed or i will get kick off of the site....i have been warned.....in fact by just saying this i may be ending my time on here...and i truly like being a member so i don't want to risk it any more than i have...maybe i will contact the "webmaster" and see what he says....until then i will leave my fellow "treehuggers" and "hippies" to do battle with you...:D

Originally posted by dlerch
i disagree , and fella's i would truly love to give an argument, but i'm not allowed or i will get kick off of the site....i have been warned.....in fact by just saying this i may be ending my time on here...and i truly like being a member so i don't want to risk it any more than i have...maybe i will contact the "webmaster" and see what he says....until then i will leave my fellow "treehuggers" and "hippies" to do battle with you...:D

Your restraint is admirable.

But the fact is, my friend, you are JUST WRONG on the facts.

You've been given the facts, and you haven't given lucid responses.

You regurgitate Democrat TV campaign commercials. Worthless pablum.

Its OK to BE wrong. But its NOT OK to STAY wrong, after you've been told the truth.

[rtm1216]

Originally posted by garandman
Your restraint is admirable.

But the fact is, my friend, you are JUST WRONG on the facts.

You've been given the facts, and you haven't given lucid responses.

You regurgitate Democrat TV campaign commercials. Worthless pablum.

Its OK to BE wrong. But its NOT OK to STAY wrong, after you've been told the truth.

You must listen to Rush Limbaugh. I swear this sounds like the garbage he spews on a daily basis that the narrow minded sheep tend to eat up as fact. The fact of the matter is that the conservatives had their shot and FAILED. Iraq is not going well. The country is heading toward all out civil war. Reporters cannot go out and report 'good news' because they can't leave the green zone without being shot at, kidnapped or killed. So, they report what they see. This whole my way or the highway thinking is what is seriously wrong with this country right now. Believe what you want about conservatives, but the American people have decided, overwhelmingly, that they are not up to the job. Now it's time for the Dems to step-up or shut-up.

[mx428]

Whatever. This country is already ****ed, and no one really knows what the right direction is. We just pushed out a bunch of corrupt right wing wackos and replaced them with a bunch of corrupt left wing wackos. This country is so far from what it used to be and what it was meant to be today's politicians might as well be pissing on the founding fathers graves. People are in politics for the money, popularity, and power. They don't care about anything but thier rich friends and don't give a **** about our country. It's the truth. So stop the republican/democrat debate omgomgomg you teh sukz were right!11! and realize that nethier party has the right direction in mind for our ****ed up country.

Originally posted by rtm1216
You must listen to Rush Limbaugh. I swear this sounds like the garbage he spews on a daily basis that the narrow minded sheep tend to eat up as fact. The fact of the matter is that the conservatives had their shot and FAILED. Iraq is not going well. The country is heading toward all out civil war. Reporters cannot go out and report 'good news' because they can't leave the green zone without being shot at, kidnapped or killed. So, they report what they see. This whole my way or the highway thinking is what is seriously wrong with this country right now. Believe what you want about conservatives, but the American people have decided, overwhelmingly, that they are not up to the job. Now it's time for the Dems to step-up or shut-up.

thank you my "left" winger...we need to have a beer! but i must say you really shouldn't be so hard on rush, i believe he may be on some mind altering meds right now...it is by prescription i assure you..:devil: i would really love to join this battle full force, but i await an ok from the powers that be...until then good luck my fellow liberal commies!!!:cool:

[sandmanblue]

I think we do agree on one thing...

"Now it's time for the Dems to step-up or shut-up."

Time will tell...

[Rastus]

Yes, time will tell. And I'm betting that the Dems won't do anything too radical until they get a new pres. in office, although they could get many things passed by Bush as soon as they take office because he'll have to play ball to get some things passed that he wants.

As soon as there is a Dem. president, I don't see things going very well for gun owners, hunters in general, ATVers, and generally most of the things outdoors people like. Heck, I can see things going south even without a Dem. president.

How many out there like guns? I like guns, but many in the left do not think I am capable or have the right to own a gun/guns even if it is spelled out in clear words that I have every right to. Gun ownership isn't just for hunting and sportsmen activities, it's for self defense, etc. I supposedly don't "need" an assault weapon, but you don't really "need" a fourwheeler/SUV/lots of land/big house, etc. do you?

The sole reason the framers put gun ownership in as a right, was to have more leverage over the government and to be able re-create or resist a government that has over stepped its boundaries. If you want proof of what the framers wanted, it's in the Declaration of Independence, free and clear.

The moderate Dems are catering to the far left by saying 'OK, we'll just ban the supposed mean types of guns, assault type weapons, etc.' A baseball bat can be an assault weapon, the term can be used on anything. They'll start with something that's easy to pass first, and then work their way down.

Suzie soccer mom thinks it's OK to ban such weapons because they have such a negative connotation, but in reality our streets are no safer. If a criminal wants a gun, he'll get it illegally. How many shootings have you heard of that involved legal AK47s/AR15s that were legally owned? I haven't heard any. The only people that hurt from an "Assault Weapons Ban" are legal taxpaying citizens.


How many out there have gotten into a wreck with an Illegal alien? If you have, please tell me who ends up paying for it every time.
That's right, the Americans always end up paying for it. Out of each illegal that comes across, there will probably be four times as many come into the country because they're family of the original guest. Who will pay for this? You guessed it, the taxpaying citizens.

At this point of the road, we have to ask ourselves what kind of country this really is going to be if the Dems follow their agenda. Is it a Capitalist democracy, or is it a hybrid communist/socialist economy in different clothes? I personally don't like the way it's going.


I am a patriot. I support what is in the countries best interests to prosperity and freedom, and to voice my opinions and project my vote for things that are beneficial to the people but do not overstep the boundaries in place by the powers that be.
Sorry this is so long, but I still did not hit topics that I would have liked to talk about.

[Rastus]

Also, if your enemies are rejoicing when you elect new leaders, what does that tell you? :ermm: They sure aren't happy for us.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Rastus
Also, if your enemies are rejoicing when you elect new leaders, what does that tell you? :ermm: They sure aren't happy for us.


Exactly!

Rastus -

Thank you for some sanity in this thread.


It was REALLY starting to scare me.

[northwest Texas]

Just a few things to point out. If a republican goes to church, they are considered religious right. That term has been a successful connotation that's intent is to stir negative thoughts.

If you look at the leadership of each party, you will see different things. For example the far left controls the democrat party. Not the case with the republican party.

The democrats have dropped the impeachment word because that does not fly with the public. HOWEVER, they have another key word that says the EXACT SAME THING. You listen for it.

Their ONLY agenda is to investigate Bush for the next two years. NOBODY knows what they are going to do other than that.

[NorCalRacer]

No, when the Republican Majority leader is on TV, nearly screaming, red in the face, that religion needs to be back in school and government and anything less is unacceptable. That is how they get "the religious right". Also, Syrians cheering means nothing to me. If I were to "value" their opinion, I would still not base my political decisions on reactions in the middle east. I wonder how all our allies responded to the election as well?

[northwest Texas]

Prayer should be permitted in schools but should not be required. That's our point. You don't have to pray if you don't want to. I don't know of any agenda to mandate prayer like you're assuming.

Notice how a month before the election how the violence in Iraq escalated? Notice that the exact same thing happened two years ago? When our enemies cheer that democrats have regained control that tells me they think the D party in control is good for them.

[NorCalRacer]

I could care less wht the Syrians think is good for them. And yes, prayer should be permitted in school, but the Republicans I heard speaking less than a year ago sounded like televangelists from the south. Both parties have their undesireables, but anyone who thinks that just because people are Dems they are going to fold on Iraq are the same that think all Republicans are rednecks in lifted trucks. Fact is, most Democrats and Republicans want the same thing: A better economy, a safe country and less government in personal life. We just seem to disagree on who has the best path. I think that the generalizations made in this thread are hilarious, like in previous threads where it was stated that Dems would never pass an intelligence test. Oh yeah I voted for Arnie, so now am I a spineless bi-partisan socialist, or someone who pays more attention to issues than party affiliation?

[northwest Texas]

Read my previous post again that the far left lead the D party. That's not the case with the R party.

If your enemy prefers one party over the other, which one would you vote for?

[NorCalRacer]

Originally posted by northwest Texas
Read my previous post again that the far left lead the D party. That's not the case with the R party.

If your enemy prefers one party over the other, which one would you vote for?

The one I feel is best, I don't let my enemies make my decisions for me.

[northwest Texas]

I'm speechless. That doesn't even make you question your "convictions"?

[NorCalRacer]

Originally posted by northwest Texas
I'm speechless. That doesn't even make you question your "convictions"?

No, my convictions are solid. I question my logic in voting daily, and honestly sometimes have doubts, but base my decision on what I see with my own two eyes. I would worry that Syrians could so easily sway US voters one way or another by celebrating on TV. That is like having a Muslim cast your vote for you.

Originally posted by Rastus
Also, if your enemies are rejoicing when you elect new leaders, what does that tell you? :ermm: They sure aren't happy for us.

ok now i have to say something...if i remember correctly syria, iran, pakistan almost the whole world was protesting the violence of 9/11, we all saw the videos of their candle lit vigils to denounce the violence( around a million in tehran)...they were all on our side....then we attack an innocent muslim country, and lose all that support. i would guess that those people cheering in syria etc... are cheering the fact that a lying administration and the rest of its corrupt republican cronies have been booted! so in no way does that tell me that they are cheering the "perception" that a "weeker" group of people have taken over in this country. heck a lot of americans were cheering too, i guess they are all muslim fundamentalists also..give me break!!...:rolleyes:

[Rastus]

Ok Dlerch, take what I said and spin it into something that I am not at all saying. :rolleyes:


The people that just got voted in are just as corrupt as the people they are going to replace. Neither party is perfect, and voting one side in "to teach the others a lesson" is not always the best decision.

Originally posted by NorCalRacer
The one I feel is best, I don't let my enemies make my decisions for me.

Well, the guys the terrorists celebrate being in power would NEVER be "the one I feel is best."

Seems like a VERY simple concept to me.

And in reality, even the way the Bush administration has prosecuted the war of late hasn't exactly been agressive against the terrorists.


Fallujah should still be smoldering.

It SHOULD be a a modern day Dresden.

Originally posted by dlerch
ok now i have to say something...if i remember correctly syria, iran, pakistan almost the whole world was protesting the violence of 9/11,

You don't remember correctly.

The Palestinians were celebrating in the streets. As were numerous other nations.

Even now, a way too large percentage of the Muslim world is trying to carry out ANOTHER 9/11.

Spain....Bali....Great Britain subway bombs ..... the recent liquid bomb plot.... Richard Reid, the shoe bomber.... all these and more are either carried out plots or ones we caught in time.

With you being SO wrong on the facts, even on VERY recent history, pretty much every conclusion you reach MUST be suspect.

[TGW_400ex]

Originally posted by northwest Texas
Prayer should be permitted in schools but should not be required. That's our point. You don't have to pray if you don't want to. I don't know of any agenda to mandate prayer like you're assuming.

Notice how a month before the election how the violence in Iraq escalated? Notice that the exact same thing happened two years ago? When our enemies cheer that democrats have regained control that tells me they think the D party in control is good for them.

Yea prayer not being allowed in school is a loss of a freedom too. It should be permitted not required. You made a great point.

Originally posted by garandman
You don't remember correctly.

The Palestinians were celebrating in the streets. As were numerous other nations.

Even now, a way too large percentage of the Muslim world is trying to carry out ANOTHER 9/11.

Spain....Bali....Great Britain subway bombs ..... the recent liquid bomb plot.... Richard Reid, the shoe bomber.... all these and more are either carried out plots or ones we caught in time.

With you being SO wrong on the facts, even on VERY recent history, pretty much every conclusion you reach MUST be suspect.

sorry but my views are different from yours, and more importantly different from some of the people calling the shots on this site...so i really can't respond the way i would like, again at the risk of getting banned.. though it would seem i'm the only person in this post held to these standards, but so be it...i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...sorry...:ermm:

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by dlerch
sorry but my views are different from yours, and more importantly different from some of the people calling the shots on this site...so i really can't respond the way i would like, again at the risk of getting banned.. though it would seem i'm the only person in this post held to these standards, but so be it...i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...sorry...:ermm:

Did someone say Craftsmen tool box? Oh wait it's just you.

[northwest Texas]

I remember very vividly the celebration going on around the world during the attack? Am I misunderstanding that you said there was none [celebration]?

[Rastus]

Dlrech, if you reply with some factual information and how it is relevant info, then I'm sure the mods will be OK with it. It's OK to be opposing to an issue, but not gripe if you can't back it.
If you can't back it with any kind of info to support your claim and you're just bantering on about things we've already heard and how everything is done wrong, then the mods have a problem with it.



I too remember hearing about the celebrations when 9/11 happened. It may be the attitude of most of them, or it may just have been the militants we heard about. To really answer the question, we'd have to dig alittle bit.

Originally posted by dlerch
sorry but my views are different from yours, and more importantly different from some of the people calling the shots on this site...so i really can't respond the way i would like, again at the risk of getting banned.. though it would seem i'm the only person in this post held to these standards, but so be it...i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...sorry...:ermm:

Oh boy, here we go, the persecution complex....

If you'd post facts, and back it up with logic, I'm quite sure the mods would (1) let you, and (2) be glad you finally did.

You seem like a nice person - just wrong on the facts, and weak on the logic.

I'm tempted to do the "devils advocate " thing, and show you how to construct a sound argument from the Democratic / whatever you want to call it side.