z400 and 250r

[matthoyda]

has anyone ridden with someone on a 250r? how do the power of the two compare? which would be quicker in the woods?

[z400ACDC]

At 42, I have had or ridden about all the sport/race quads. A friend of mine still has his 86 R that he bought new. It is mint a may be 4-sale. Anyway, Bill Ballance did a complete engine rebuild last spring. No big mods, just a new crank, fresh bore and the normal stuff. He added a FMF pipe, reed cage and reeds. In a drag, on dirt at 300ft, I beat him every time with my Z, by 3 lenghts. I weigh about 30 pounds less than he does. But the R is about 30 lighter. On the asphalt, where he has less wheel spin, it is a little closer(about a quad).

[TrapZ400]

Wait, you rode with Bill Ballance? Thats awesome!

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by TrapZ400
Wait, you rode with Bill Ballance? Thats awesome!
No, Jesus is awsome! But, Bill is a very nice guy that live near me. It has been cool to watch Bill and Jeremiah grow up and succeed in life and racing. On a sad note, as the crow flies, I live about a mile from JJ. It hard to be outside and not here him riding! Buy he is adjusting well and I thank God for that!!!!

[prowler029]

z400s are fast but a stock 250r would blow a moded z400 away!!! i would say a 250r would do better in tha woods 2!

[leadman_09]

Ive rode both and it seems to me the Honda has alot more low end torque and handles better. But thats just me, Im a Honda guy

[rockman]

Holy crap are you guys serious ^^^^:eek2:

have either one of you ever even ridden a 250r. prowler029- are you kidding me, i had a bad *** 250r that wouldn't touch my z right now. it was fun but wasn't nearly as practical as my z for the woods.

eadman_09- you are on crack if you think a r has more torque than a z. :rolleyes: the r is a 2-stroke. all its power is up in the topend of the rpm range. they don't make crap for bottom end.

matthoyda don't listen to anything these 2 said. the only person with some accurate info is z400ACDC.

[prowler029]

dude have u ever ridden an r they have an a## load of torque its a 2 stroke and a honda all hondas are tourquey!!!!!!

[quadwanter]

:rolleyes: ...look another 10 year old...

[rockman]

Originally posted by prowler029
dude have u ever ridden an r they have an a## load of torque its a 2 stroke and a honda all hondas are tourquey!!!!!!

DUDE!!! :rolleyes: you really have no idea what you are talking about do you. I had a 250r, i just sold it. The "torque" YOU are referring to is actually the powerband that 2 strokes have. The arm-ripping power delivery has nothing to do with torque. You really should read more on these forums. You might actually learn something young one.

[drzoo2]

Take a 2 stroke snowmobile motor. These are rated at more that 100 horse. Problem is the torque range is no were near this. Thats why the clutches don't kick in till better than 5000 rpm. As Rockman said, two stroke motors need RPMs to make real power.

[leadman_09]

Ok my experience was a 400ex and a 250r and the r smoked it off the line and down the strech.Im pretty sure the ex has more torque than a z also. You guys are just pissy cause a chainsaw has torque. and I have ridden the z400 and it really didnt impress me at all in terms of torque. Also a 250r goes awesome in the woods but if it was my choice i would pick a 4 stroke cause i really hate the power band of the r. Oh yeah believe it or not my friend had a 330r that would tear a yfz or 450r up. But they would smoke em off the line cause the r spun to much.

[rockman]

Originally posted by leadman_09
Ok my experience was a 400ex and a 250r and the r smoked it off the line and down the strech.Im pretty sure the ex has more torque than a z also. You guys are just pissy cause a chainsaw has torque. and I have ridden the z400 and it really didnt impress me at all in terms of torque. Also a 250r goes awesome in the woods but if it was my choice i would pick a 4 stroke cause i really hate the power band of the r. Oh yeah believe it or not my friend had a 330r that would tear a yfz or 450r up. But they would smoke em off the line cause the r spun to much.

Just because the R smoked the 400 off the line doesn't mean it has more torque. R's have to have wheelspin at launch, otherwise they bog like crazy, why? because they don't make any power down low. They have no torque at low rpms, and don't start making power until mid-top. The reason that R's are 6speeds is because the transmissions had to be made close-ratio. This is because the powerband is very narrow. A built 250R motor might make 45 hp but only 20-25 lb ft of torque. Compared to a build 450 motor making 50 hp and 45 lb ft of torque. Now tell me which has more torque. Like I said before, do your homework before you start making false comments.

[quadwanter]

Originally posted by rockman
Just because the R smoked the 400 off the line doesn't mean it has more torque. R's have to have wheelspin at launch, otherwise they bog like crazy, why? because they don't make any power down low. They have no torque at low rpms, and don't start making power until mid-top. The reason that R's are 6speeds is because the transmissions had to be made close-ratio. This is because the powerband is very narrow. A built 250R motor might make 45 hp but only 20-25 lb ft of torque. Compared to a build 450 motor making 50 hp and 45 lb ft of torque. Now tell me which has more torque. Like I said before, do your homework before you start making false comments.


owned

[prowler029]

Dude the powerband comes in like second on an r and i thought r s only had 5 gears?

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by rockman
Just because the R smoked the 400 off the line doesn't mean it has more torque. R's have to have wheelspin at launch, otherwise they bog like crazy, why? because they don't make any power down low. They have no torque at low rpms, and don't start making power until mid-top. The reason that R's are 6speeds is because the transmissions had to be made close-ratio. This is because the powerband is very narrow. A built 250R motor might make 45 hp but only 20-25 lb ft of torque. Compared to a build 450 motor making 50 hp and 45 lb ft of torque. Now tell me which has more torque. Like I said before, do your homework before you start making false comments.
Rock, don't waste your time with these kids! I think they ride one of those short buses with tinted windows!!!

[7 speed]

Which power band are yuo referring too?
The purple one hits at 2nd gear. The pink one is for first.

Lol...

Dude!!!

The Powerband has nothing to do with the gears. Its all about RPM's.

The 250R is a 6 speed trans.

[leadman_09]

I love making arguments worthwhile!! I love the fresh smell that hits you at the door of the short bus. :D

Ok well your right about the z having more torque but I still think the r is faster. My opinion for the woods is the z also. And im sorry if i pissed anybody off, i thought id make a good little argument, it was funny to me. lol

[rockman]

Originally posted by prowler029
Dude the powerband comes in like second on an r and i thought r s only had 5 gears?

Hence the reason you are an idiot. Obviously you haven't had much seat time on an R.

[rockman]

Originally posted by z400ACDC
Rock, don't waste your time with these kids! I think they ride one of those short buses with tinted windows!!!
That is hilarious

[pharit]

Originally posted by prowler029


z400s are fast but a stock 250r would blow a moded z400 away!!! i would say a 250r would do better in tha woods 2!


dude have u ever ridden an r they have an a## load of torque its a 2 stroke and a honda all hondas are tourquey!!!!!!




Dude the powerband comes in like second on an r and i thought r s only had 5 gears?

Wow you seemed to know alot about 250R's until you had to ask if it had a 5speed transmission. i supposed next your goin to try and tell me honda actually made a fully automatic 250R too. I was seriously thinkin about buying another R and having you hand build it with your superior grace a knowledge......You almost had me sold.

You sir are an idiot. Look at my sig......Its at the bottom of this post........you see that trinity 330cc kit. no where near a torque monster. dyno'ed at 55Hp barely making 45 ft lbs of torque.

Power band comes on in a second. How many 250R's have you rode. your power band is decided on your pipe and port job. some have a narrow power band other pipes calm to have a smooth power band. Its not some little switch you hit to make the powerband come on.

its easy to sound like you know everythhing on the internet kid, but listen i was just gettin into riding quad around the time you were born........so i want you do to this

1. Ride for as long as me, then try and learn something.

2. Work on your own stuff, then try and learn something

3. Don't ever post this kind of stupid **** in here again.

Thank you and i approve this message

now go tell your dad to go air up the tires on your trx90 and don't forget your helmet, cause i know it probably doesn't ever come off......

[rockman]

Originally posted by pharit
Wow you seemed to know alot about 250R's until you had to ask if it had a 5speed transmission. i supposed next your goin to try and tell me honda actually made a fully automatic 250R too. I was seriously thinkin about buying another R and having you hand build it with your superior grace a knowledge......You almost had me sold.

You sir are an idiot. Look at my sig......Its at the bottom of this post........you see that trinity 330cc kit. no where near a torque monster. dyno'ed at 55Hp barely making 45 ft lbs of torque.

Power band comes on in a second. How many 250R's have you rode. your power band is decided on your pipe and port job. some have a narrow power band other pipes calm to have a smooth power band. Its not some little switch you hit to make the powerband come on.

its easy to sound like you know everythhing on the internet kid, but listen i was just gettin into riding quad around the time you were born........so i want you do to this

1. Ride for as long as me, then try and learn something.

2. Work on your own stuff, then try and learn something

3. Don't ever post this kind of stupid **** in here again.

Thank you and i approve this message

now go tell your dad to go air up the tires on your trx90 and don't forget your helmet, cause i know it probably doesn't ever come off......
NO THATS HILARIOUS

[pharit]

i guess home boy doesn't got anything to say after that......

[jonboy]

Sometimes the best part of this forum is when some punk gets ***** slapped so hard he cant find his way back.:devil:

[250r/kfxrider]

I have both sitting in my garage. I have owned the R for about 7 years and the KFX for a year. The R is by far a faster more powerful quad, but as far as trail riding goes nothing beats a fourstroke! When I want to flat out haul I hop on the R, when I want to mess around doing wheelies climbing hills, and flying around on the trails I hop on the KFX. They both serve their purpose and that is just how it is. As far as the torque thing, like it was said earlier, it is how it is built. A port and polish, pipe and big bore kit goes along ways. Also proper gearing helps tremendously. Some of these guys in here have clearly NEVER riden an R, because there is no way the KFX will win in a race. The KFX will get the R off the line, but once that power band kicks in its see ya later!! Try owning both before you have an opinion!
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g217/stealthrt93/kfx2.jpg

[TampaBoy813]

I have both as well...and can say that the R is a faster quad...but the 4banger is better in the woods...but the new snapper can cut the grass like whOa!

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3941/kfx250r003ev5.jpg

[pharit]

Originally posted by 250r/kfxrider

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g217/stealthrt93/kfx2.jpg

is that a 3 to 4 wheel conversion


And the snapper...that **** owns me

[christophere251]

u guys can know the 250r all u want but if u put both machines against each other the 250r is gonna win a drag race. 250r's can be made to have 45-50hp no problem, this is with a stock bore mild port and some minor boltons. The z400 Has about 31-32 hp stock. Any torque the 250r is lacking is made up for in its weight. If u have a power valve motor or a woods/ mx set up torque is available almost 1/4 throttle. Ill agree that just putting around or stunting the 4 stroke is better quad. In a race wether its mx, tt, xc, or any thing else hauling *** the 2-stroke mod for mod will out perform the fourstroke hands down.

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by christophere251
u guys can know the 250r all u want but if u put both machines against each other the 250r is gonna win a drag race. 250r's can be made to have 45-50hp no problem, this is with a stock bore mild port and some minor boltons. The z400 Has about 31-32 hp stock. Any torque the 250r is lacking is made up for in its weight. If u have a power valve motor or a woods/ mx set up torque is available almost 1/4 throttle. Ill agree that just putting around or stunting the 4 stroke is better quad. In a race wether its mx, tt, xc, or any thing else hauling *** the 2-stroke mod for mod will out perform the fourstroke hands down.

At 42, I have been in this game a long time! The 250R was the best quad. From 86 until the 400ex(99) it was the best all around quad. All my friends bought a R. Stock, the 250R made about 27HP. A stock Z HP is about 31. Both quads can be modded to make more power. When Jeremiah ran a Sparks engine, it was about 48HP. His Yoshi Z was about 52. The R is faster when heavy modded. But, with just a pipe on both, a Z is faster IMO. For me, I would not give up my dependable 4-stroke, electric start with reverse, for an old wore out kick-smoker. I don't care if the R was a little faster on top-end. The new 4 strokes are just better! Who would trade a Z,450R or YFZ, for a 250R? Parts are gettiing harder to find and most used R's are JUNK. The 250 R is dead! Bury them before they stink up the place LOL!!:)

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by 250r/kfxrider
I have both sitting in my garage. I have owned the R for about 7 years and the KFX for a year. The R is by far a faster more powerful quad, but as far as trail riding goes nothing beats a fourstroke! [/IMG]

I agree. Two of my buddies have brand new KFX's and in a straight shot they cannot even come close to keeping up. The 250R is a much superior quad if you want to go fast. BUT... Trails are a whole different story. The 250R does not like to be ridden soft, thats where the 4-strokes take it. So it comes down to what you want to do. I like to ride sand, and open desert, so i ride a 250R.

But let me reiterate. The KFX 400 will NOT out-run a 250R. It may beat it off the line for the first 20 feet, due to its torque, but thats it.

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by z400ACDC
At 42, I have been in this game a long time! The 250R was the best quad. From 86 until the 400ex(99) it was the best all around quad. All my friends bought a R. Stock, the 250R made about 27HP. A stock Z HP is about 31. Both quads can be modded to make more power. When Jeremiah ran a Sparks engine, it was about 48HP. His Yoshi Z was about 52. The R is faster when heavy modded. But, with just a pipe on both, a Z is faster IMO. For me, I would not give up my dependable 4-stroke, electric start with reverse, for an old wore out kick-smoker. I don't care if the R was a little faster on top-end. The new 4 strokes are just better! Who would trade a Z,450R or YFZ, for a 250R? Parts are gettiing harder to find and most used R's are JUNK. The 250 R is dead! Bury them before they stink up the place LOL!!:)

It is ignorant to say that the R's are dead. They have just lost factory and aftermarket backing, because company's want to sell there new products. And you can't blame them, that's business.

BUT if you take a totally stock 400 and a totally stock 250R and you put $600 dollars into each, the R will win. No doubt. Obviously some people prefer to have the luxuries of an electric start and reverse, but if you're someone who wants to go fast than the R is definitely not dead.

[rockman]

Originally posted by fireburns99


But let me reiterate. The KFX 400 will NOT out-run a 250R. It may beat it off the line for the first 20 feet, due to its torque, but thats it.
A stock R (i mean bone stock) will not outrun a stock Z PERIOD. In stock for the R is just too doggy and restricted. Now I do agree that mod for mod the R will be faster, but thats talking drag racing in a straight line. Before I got my Z I had an 86 R with a bunch of goodies. My Z now would blow that R away hands down. But the Z has a big bore, etc. The R was just a 265 with port work, paul turner, 38 mm air stryker, etc. This is an accurate statement, this was not just pulled outta my butt to sound smart. I have had both and this is my opinion on the 2.

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by rockman
Just because the R smoked the 400 off the line doesn't mean it has more torque. R's have to have wheelspin at launch, otherwise they bog like crazy, why? because they don't make any power down low. They have no torque at low rpms, and don't start making power until mid-top. The reason that R's are 6speeds is because the transmissions had to be made close-ratio. This is because the powerband is very narrow. A built 250R motor might make 45 hp but only 20-25 lb ft of torque. Compared to a build 450 motor making 50 hp and 45 lb ft of torque. Now tell me which has more torque. Like I said before, do your homework before you start making false comments.

A 250R that is built right, will be making more than 45 hp. I've seen dyno sheets with R's making well over 50hp(not even mentioning big-bore kits which are common). And as to the narrow powerband, that is exaggerating a little bit. Ported right, they will pull from half throttle to the moon. Thats what gives them the edge, they pull so hard and so high in the RPM's.

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by rockman
A stock R (i mean bone stock) will not outrun a stock Z PERIOD. In stock for the R is just too doggy and restricted. Now I do agree that mod for mod the R will be faster, but thats talking drag racing in a straight line. Before I got my Z I had an 86 R with a bunch of goodies. My Z now would blow that R away hands down. But the Z has a big bore, etc. The R was just a 265 with port work, paul turner, 38 mm air stryker, etc. This is an accurate statement, this was not just pulled outta my butt to sound smart. I have had both and this is my opinion on the 2.

You are entitled to your own opinion. But to say that the R will only beat a Z in a straight line is definitely strecthing it. The R handles soooooooo much better than the Z. I've also ridden both. Like i said my buddies have KFX's. They cannot keep up when handling comes into play.

And if you put a bigbore R against your Z, i'm sorry to say you aren't going to blow it away.

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by rockman
A stock R (i mean bone stock) will not outrun a stock Z PERIOD. In stock for the R is just too doggy and restricted. Now I do agree that mod for mod the R will be faster, but thats talking drag racing in a straight line. Before I got my Z I had an 86 R with a bunch of goodies. My Z now would blow that R away hands down. But the Z has a big bore, etc. The R was just a 265 with port work, paul turner, 38 mm air stryker, etc. This is an accurate statement, this was not just pulled outta my butt to sound smart. I have had both and this is my opinion on the 2.
Rock, you can't teach these guys anything. Most of these guys have never ridden a stock R. I stock R is weak compared to the 21st century quads. Ask some of the Pro riders if they want there old 250R's back????? I know a few that would say NO WAY!!

[fireburns99]

ok i was figuring we are talking normal quads here, find me a stock R... I've seen maybe 2 on ebay in the last year. Pipe both, and the R will out run the Z. Hows that?

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by fireburns99
ok i was figuring we are talking normal quads here, find me a stock R... I've seen maybe 2 on ebay in the last year. Pipe both, and the R will out run the Z. Hows that?
No, but it is close. I posted before how I beat my buddy on a 86 that Bill Ballance just did a complete rebuild from the crank up and added reeds and xc fmf pipe. My buddy does have a nice R. he even has new plastic with factory graphics. When we go riding, we trade quads for a while. He likes those easy to ride 4 strokes and I can't wait to trade back! But, I don't tell him that!!!

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by z400ACDC
No, but it is close. I posted before how I beat my buddy on a 86 that Bill Ballance just did a complete rebuild from the crank up and added reeds and xc fmf pipe. My buddy does have a nice R. he even has new plastic with factory graphics. When we go riding, we trade quads for a while. He likes those easy to ride 4 strokes and I can't wait to trade back! But, I don't tell him that!!!
I guess it just comes down to preference then. Personally i hate riding 4-strokes, but i love the hit, and the high revving, nature of the 2-strokes. And is yours a stock Z? Because i have a stock bore R that i walk all over the Z's with. So thats why i'm so confused. And i mean literally walk allo over. I'm not saying your wrong, just trying to gather facts.

[rockman]

Originally posted by fireburns99
ok i was figuring we are talking normal quads here, find me a stock R... I've seen maybe 2 on ebay in the last year. Pipe both, and the R will out run the Z. Hows that?
Thats not the point:rolleyes: . Like i said, mod for mod the R will be faster. But the faster you make the R the harder it is to control the powerband. I don't care what you say, you start adding mods to a 2-stroke, the powerband starts shrinking. Yes there are port jobs that add power, but its wide, but not alot of power.

[rockman]

Originally posted by fireburns99
I guess it just comes down to preference then. Personally i hate riding 4-strokes, but i love the hit, and the high revving, nature of the 2-strokes. And is yours a stock Z? Because i have a stock bore R that i walk all over the Z's with. So thats why i'm so confused. And i mean literally walk allo over. I'm not saying your wrong, just trying to gather facts.
What about 450's? Can you walk all over them? I can beat 450's with my z all day. BUT i can't seem to beat pharit's basically stock '06:mad: .. I don't get it? He must just be that good that he can smoke other modded 450's with his stock pipe.

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by rockman
What about 450's? Can you walk all over them? I can beat 450's with my z all day. BUT i can't seem to beat pharit's basically stock '06:mad: .. I don't get it? He must just be that good that he can smoke other modded 450's with his stock pipe.
In all honesty, i stay with them. It's back and forth with the 450's depending on mods, and where its at. In the sand, i get the majority.

I'm not comparing anything to your Z, i know you have the big bore kit, and its modded extensively. I'm talking mildly modded.
My R has pretty aggressive port work, pipe, carb reeds, yada, yada. I don't know about pharits, i'm using mine as reference.

In no way am i knocking on your machine rock, i know its prolly fast as hell, and i would love to see it, and run against it for the hell of it. ;)

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by fireburns99
I guess it just comes down to preference then. Personally i hate riding 4-strokes, but i love the hit, and the high revving, nature of the 2-strokes. And is yours a stock Z? Because i have a stock bore R that i walk all over the Z's with. So thats why i'm so confused. And i mean literally walk allo over. I'm not saying your wrong, just trying to gather facts.
My 03 Z has a Ballance HMF, jet kit and filter. I weigh about 30 pounds less than my buddy. But the R is about 30 less than the Z. I weigh about 145. Most of the guys I ride with are 175 plus. :)

[rockman]

Originally posted by fireburns99
In all honesty, i stay with them. It's back and forth with the 450's depending on mods, and where its at. In the sand, i get the majority.

I'm not comparing anything to your Z, i know you have the big bore kit, and its modded extensively. I'm talking mildly modded.
My R has pretty aggressive port work, pipe, carb reeds, yada, yada. I don't know about pharits, i'm using mine as reference.

In no way am i knocking on your machine rock, i know its prolly fast as hell, and i would love to see it, and run against it for the hell of it. ;)
Yeah thats about what i figured for your R. Like i said i just sold mine about 2 months go. Sometimes i miss it don't get me wrong. As for pharit's yfz, like i said i don't get it.

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by fireburns99
In all honesty, i stay with them. It's back and forth with the 450's depending on mods, and where its at. In the sand, i get the majority.

I'm not comparing anything to your Z, i know you have the big bore kit, and its modded extensively. I'm talking mildly modded.
My R has pretty aggressive port work, pipe, carb reeds, yada, yada. I don't know about pharits, i'm using mine as reference.

In no way am i knocking on your machine rock, i know its prolly fast as hell, and i would love to see it, and run against it for the hell of it. ;)
Do you do most of your drag racing in the sand?

[rockman]

Yeah I don't like racing in the sand. 2-strokes are untouchable in the sand almost:devil: . That's where the powerband shines.

[z400ACDC]

You know, you got to compare apples to apples. JJ's sparks 250R's were fast. And his yoshi/team suzuki 450's were rast! But to me, the Suzuki's just felt faster everywhere, and more controlable. Ride what you like. It is nice to have many to pick from. :) :)

[fireburns99]

Originally posted by z400ACDC
Do you do most of your drag racing in the sand?

I ride about half sand, and half desert. When i say i outrun Z's its in the desert, or dirt roads. But like I said, i seem to run faster in the sand. ;)

But there is a wide selection to choose from, i just think sometimes these young kids read the ATV sport magazine, and forget to respect the "older" technology. :) I have the most fun beating them up the hill. :devil:

[z400ACDC]

Now those smokers are BAD in the sand!!!!!!!

[rockman]

Originally posted by fireburns99
I ride about half sand, and half desert. When i say i outrun Z's its in the desert, or dirt roads. But like I said, i seem to run faster in the sand. ;)

But there is a wide selection to choose from, i just think sometimes these young kids read the ATV sport magazine, and forget to respect the "older" technology. :) I have the most fun beating them up the hill. :devil:
Oh I completely agree on that. There is nothing better than breakin out the old 2-stroke and smoking everyone else up the hill.

[christophere251]

I have good luck on the asphalt with my r! Ive got all the little bolt ons with a ported stock cylinder and i can out run all the 450's no matter if they have aftermarket cams or what. I just start off at full throttle in second gear and get the holeshot every time! To give u an idea of how fast it is i have a fully modded 400ex that makes 53 hp on the dyno and it will beat it by 4 quad lenghts in a drag

[kfxkidd]

what kind of exhaust should i get for my kfx is dmc good?

[alaskaZ]

kfx kid its ll about prefrence do you want looks,sound lound or quiet depends on your riding pipes range from high end yoshimura,hmf,rossier,alba,ect i have a fmf ti 4 its hella loud and improves throttle response just depends on wut you like man and how much money you got

[pharit]

Originally posted by rockman
Yeah thats about what i figured for your R. Like i said i just sold mine about 2 months go. Sometimes i miss it don't get me wrong. As for pharit's yfz, like i said i don't get it.

What can i say its a factory freek......