I'm sick of IT!!! HELP ME!!!

[stuntman_12]

Ok... i've owned this thing for THREE MONTHS now.. and it still hasn't ran for me yet. I now have the 42mm 450r carb... it came w/ that p.o.s. Edlebrock. I currently have a 48 pilot, and Dynojet 170 main, needle in middle setting, and the a/f 2 & 3/4 turns. It will not do anything for me!!!!!!!! Yes the valves are set. Yes i am gettin PLENTY of spark. I tried choking it with my hands and a ton of fuel winds up soaking my hand... i got it to fire ONCE doing this. What the hell could the problem be!!!!!!!!!!

I've waited for part after part... worked on it night after night... i don't have much time to spare (full time student and worker!!)

PLEASE HELP!!! I want to ride!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Eviltanker]

You are way to rich bud. Start at the beginning and put in a 40 and 150 for starters, that should get you around a baseline.(I'm talking Keihn you'll have to search the site for the conversion.)

[stuntman_12]

TTT!!! PLEASE HELP!!!

[knelson]

does it fire off if you use carb cleaner (starting fluid)? if not I am willing to bet your intake valves are bent, what's your compression?

[knelson]

Or it could be out of time.

[stuntman_12]

Timing is perfect and kind of hard to screw up. The motor is a BRAND new rebulid. (416 kit) I had the head inspected at a shop and they said it would work fine...

I'm at a loss of explanations... if i have time tonight i'll try smaller dyno jets... It should do SOMETHING though shouldn't it??? It'll fire once in a while, but just ONE time. I'm gonna try pullin it behind a truck today and see what happens...:confused:

[knelson]

don't pull it behind a car! If it's not running now, something is obviously wrong (I.E. pulling it will not fix the prob.).
Your carb would have to be totally out of wack to not fire it off.
you say the timing is hard to mess up, but it is not unheard of that it may have jumped (is the chain new?), or installed 180 degrees out. do a compression test. put your hand (or paper)over the exhaust, it it blowing? same thing with the carb (sucking).
spraying starting fluid bypasses the carb and it should run, if thats your problem.

[stuntman_12]

IT's impossible to install the cam 180 degrees out... the 400's fire every revolution, it only matters when ur setting the vavles, then it has to be on the compresssion stroke at tdc. But i did put the cam in w/ the lobs DOWN. I aligned the cam gear up PERFECTLY w/ the "T" mark and i have a BRAND NEW timing chain.

Yes the carb is DEF sucking and the exhaust is DEF blowing....:confused:

THANKS for showin some concern man!!!

[knelson]

Originally posted by stuntman_12
IT's impossible to install the cam 180 degrees out... . But i did put the cam in w/ the lobs DOWN.

I wasn't sure, you havent done a compression test yet, have you?
I just don't see it being your carb. it should fire off and run ruff or something. have you verified that the piston is actually at TDC when you set it up (sheared key maybe)

[(815) REDDEVIL]

if i was you i would try to put the edelbrock back on if you know its good and go about 18 clicks from rich which would be turning it all the way clockwise then back 18 clicks counterclockwise toward lean.

i had problems like that when id have my edelbrock richened all the way when i recently had a float isuue.

ive never used anything but the edelbrock and i grinded my throttle stop away in the throttle casing to acheive wide-open-throttle and an aftermarket rev limiter and boyy.......that edelbrock lets my 440ex rev out at 11800 rpm almost instantly.

when i punch the throttle dead open the motor shows no lag with this carb. and thats the problem with jetting, you have transitions to go threw with jets during throttling reving your motor.

[stuntman_12]

Too late... i bored over my inake and air filter boot for this bigger carb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Koo... yeah... well the accelerator pump "actuator" bent and broke off off the edlebrock carb... it could be fixed. Where is this "clicking" adjustment found on the edlebrock carb? I know there is a "choke like" device on the side that will spin continuously. I think that's why the carb is so f"ed up. I whish i had just put a stock one on and at least heard this damn thing run...:ermm:

[knelson]

top of carb, it raises and lowers needle

[knelson]

here some quicksilver tips http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35038

[stuntman_12]

Yeah the piston was at tdc.... i removed the plug and felt the increase in pressure w/ a finger as the piston came up and then i set er' on the "T" mark.

I'll try a smaller set of jets... then if there's nothing there then i'll pullthe head (for the 4th time) and reinssure that the vavles aren't bent. It never made any wierd noises.

[knelson]

if it won't fire off on starting fluid, I would not touch the carb.

[(815) REDDEVIL]

if your getting descent compression with good fuel air and spark chances are its timing.

shoot a good amount of starting fluid in spark plug hole and open carb spray more in with piston at bottom of stroke. reassemble and attempt to start.

if it dont atleast backfire burp pop start sputter then you have ignition problems wether it be faulty parts or out of time

but if it does backfire pop spuuter burp or start its in your carb/intake

[stuntman_12]

DAMN it... man i am SO FRUSTRATED!!! I worked on it for a good 4 and a half hours NON STOP.

I tore it all the way down to hopefully find SOMETHING, ANYTHING WRONG!!! NOTHING IS WRONG!!!! AT ALL!!! W T F!!!!

I am missing the decompression spring that's under the cam... but it should run fine w/ out it right? I also managed to break another part... one of the valve adjuster tops...the threds just BROKE OFF!!!

It just backfires EVERY now and then... I tried the starter fluid.. it caught the carb on fire... could this mean something? I'm seriously about to scrap it and just ****in save up my money and start over w/ one that will run....

[northwest Texas]

Did you have the gas on to the carb while using the starter fluid?

I'm no genius on carb issues but it sounds like you're shoving too much fuel to the carb and it's flooding OR, based on experience, the valves could be incorrect. The last time I had my EX apart for a new piston, I had the same issue as you. Somehow I managed to set them too tight and it wouldn't start to save my life. Readjusting the valves and she fired right up.

[smitht316]

well you are so close to answering your own question. but yes you do need the decompression spring if you are running the stock cam or you could get rid of it with an aftermarket cam. it should fire right up after fixing that problem

[Vista Cruiser]

Have you tried a new spark plug? If they get fouled, they won't work.

You only need three things to make it run: gas, compression and spark.

[stuntman_12]

Yes.. I have new plugs.... My problem may be the missing compression spring... i have the stock cam. COULD THIS BE IT????

If so i'll buy a hot cam RIGHT now to solve that issue. What are the prices on a stage two???

Note to all... i've put enough time and money into it already... But i NEED to ride.. so i will at all COSTS!!!!!:mad:

[Ncboost]

Not to come off as a prick.. But maybe time to take it to a shop and let them tell you why it doesnt run.. Save yourself a lot of time and headaches. That's what I did and come to find out it was the only thing i didn't have the tool to check, 75% leak down and very little compression. Before you keep throwing parts at it just guessing. Good luck

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by stuntman_12
Timing is perfect and kind of hard to screw up. The motor is a BRAND new rebulid. (416 kit) I had the head inspected at a shop and they said it would work fine...

I'm at a loss of explanations... if i have time tonight i'll try smaller dyno jets... It should do SOMETHING though shouldn't it??? It'll fire once in a while, but just ONE time. I'm gonna try pullin it behind a truck today and see what happens...:confused:


do OEM jets and go WAY DOWN. u r running way too rich. i have never done a 450 carb on a 400ex so i don't know where to start, but u r way too rich.

[stuntman_12]

I came down on the main to a dyno 160.. still nothing... nor did i get anything from spraying starter fluid in it. So it's not the carb... Every one else that has the 450R carb is runnin REALLY big jets. The carb is MASSIVE. So it's gotta be something in the motor...

I'm thinkin that it's the missing COMP SPRING... i have the stock cam... Could someone tell me for sure if this is the prob!!!???





I've got to fix it myself... i'm too hard headed to take it anywhere. I have a BRAND NEW rebuild. I've taken anything anywhere cept to my own garage!!!! and i'm damn pround of it!!!!! Naw... you didn't sound like a prick man... juss tryin to help.. THANKS!!!!

************************************************** *MISSING COMP SPRING

[DieselBoy]

Stock cam REQUIRES the decompression spring. Put it back in. It SHOULD run after that.

[xxnightraven73x]

well ill tell you this if you caught the carb on fire it sounds like your cam is 180 degrees out from where it should be. if it caught fire it means that it tried to fire when one of your intake valves was open. and pushed the compression back out your cab but also check and make sure you didnt bend a valve doing so because if its 180 out usually it hits the top of the piston.

[DieselBoy]

180 degrees out of time does NOT apply in the TRX400 engine They fire on BOTH strokes. (Ghost spark I believe it's called)

[xxnightraven73x]

by the way if that helps feel free to send me the edlebrock carb for my 440 heh heh

[xxnightraven73x]

if the trx 400 fired on both strokes it would shoot massive flames out the exhaust no engine no matter how much you tune it will ever burn all the fuel and if you look at my previous post you will understand that if an engine trys to fire with the valves open it has no compression therefore will not run just pop and sputter but never fire and run there cant be anything different about a 400trx than every other 4 stroke on the planet so sorry if the cam is 180 out it will not run period...........

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by xxnightraven73x
if the trx 400 fired on both strokes it would shoot massive flames out the exhaust no engine no matter how much you tune it will ever burn all the fuel and if you look at my previous post you will understand that if an engine trys to fire with the valves open it has no compression therefore will not run just pop and sputter but never fire and run there cant be anything different about a 400trx than every other 4 stroke on the planet so sorry if the cam is 180 out it will not run period...........

Completely wrong. It is impossible for a 400EX engine to be 180 degrees out of time. Flipping the cam 180 degrees just flip-flops the compression and exhaust stroke TDCs. Since the plug fires on both of those strokes, the engine doesn't no the difference. In other words, there IS no difference.

See here for a complete explination. (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=246253)

[stuntman_12]

Yeah... i've learned ALL of that cam stuff about this quad. I guess a few other ppl did too!!! lol:D

So... yall think that i need either an aftermarket cam or replace the spring... Well i never had the spring to begin with.


HOW does it fit? does sit just sit in that lil hole under the cam?




THANK YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[GPracer2500]

There's a little spring and a small metal dowl (plunger) that sits on top of it. They just set in that little hole. The engine will NOT start without them (if the auto-decompression mechanism is in place, like on the stock cam).

http://www.servicehonda.com/hard%20parts/atv/trx400ex%2099-04/cylinder_head.jpg

#4 14125-KV2-940
#5 14126-KV2-940

[stuntman_12]

O M G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So... can i simply install an aftermarket cam? and it should fire right up???

***OR can i remove the part on the cam that is preventing ignition???????????



:D :D :D :D :D :D

[GPracer2500]

You can either get the spring and plunger and use the stock cam as-is.

or

Have the auto-decompression mechanism removed from the stock cam. It would need to be pressed off--not something your likely to be able to do on your own.

or

Install an drop-in aftermarket cam (like a Hotcams cam) that is already without the auto-decomp mechanism.

If the missing spring and plunger is your only issue then it should start by doing any of the above.

[smitht316]

thank you GPracer2500 for better explaining and backing me up. just get another cam... it will go better with your mods anyways

[xxnightraven73x]

ok thanks GP. that helped explain it alot better to me when i did my can it sat apart so long i couldnt rember where everything was set so when i turned the engine by hand you could feel it slightly hitting a valve so i guess i was either on the low side or high side of 180 out for it to do that right?

[400exrider707]

Yeah I had the same problem last winter and not a single person on here seemed to have had the problem at that time. Once you put that in your good to go, but your jetting is still waaaay off.

[DieselBoy]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Completely wrong. It is impossible for a 400EX engine to be 180 degrees out of time. Flipping the cam 180 degrees just flip-flops the compression and exhaust stroke TDCs. Since the plug fires on both of those strokes, the engine doesn't no the difference. In other words, there IS no difference.

See here for a complete explination. (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=246253)

exactly......

[(815) REDDEVIL]

my suggestion use stage 2 hotcam for just over 100 bucks
dont waste your time on stock parts unless it saves you money.

a cam alone will give more of what you want. instead of wasted dollars on a spring and whatnot. itll also save you from needing cam if you go 440

buy the stock parts if you need a cheap quick fix

[m36indiana]

my 400ex did that too after a rebuild, ended up being just a simple spark plug chage