What is the diff between LT and ST

[jrm03]

This may be a dumb question to most. What is the difference between Long Travel and Standard Travel arms. Will the stock shocks work with Standard Travel arms? I ride trails and my ball joint is starting to go, and I was wanting something that would widen up my arms to match the width of my LSR axle, and to also ditch the spacers. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[CannondaleRider]

Long travel is just that, LONG travel. It uses a longer shock, and different geometries to achieve more travel overall.

Standard travel arms are basically stock travel. Your stock shocks will mount, and work. But they'll be soft if you go with a + a-arm. Because of the extra leverage.

[jrm03]

Its my guess then that long travel is solely used for MX and such type of riding. I currently have 1.5 inch spacers on the front of my quad right now. Why type of arms (standard travel I'm assuming) can I buy that would give me the width I have right now, and are reasonable in price.

[CannondaleRider]

Long travel is used in anything from WORCS off-road racing, to BITD Desert Racing, to GNC Nationals, to GNCC Nationals, to dunes.....it just gives a higher level of suspension performance....once you ride LT, you won't ever want to ride standard again.

Many things contribute to width. A-arms are labeled a certain way. Example, +1's are just 1 inch longer then factory, +2's are two inches longer, etc.....When you see arms that are labeled +2+1's, or something to that effect, it means they are 2 inches wider, and also pushed forward 1 inch, which will give you more traction.

The other thing contributing to width, is wheel offset, meaning how much rim is to the inside and outside of the center of a rim. 4+1 rims, means 1 inch of the rim is to the outside of the bolt pattern, and 4 inches to the inside.....just for future reference.

If you can find a +1.5 Arm, then that would, obviously, give you about the same width as you have now. I have rarely seen +1.5 Arms, so just go with a +2 and be done with it, you'll be around an inch wider overall.

[jrm03]

Thanks for your insight and sharing. When you say +2 arms, does that mean +2 on each arm, or overall (+1 for each arm), and what is the advantage of having your arms forward +1 or whatever, hows traction improved by that?

[ZSNOW]

+2 is both a arm + 2in....pushing ur a arms foward makes the wheel base longer witch inturn puts more pressure on all fours

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by ZSNOW
.pushing ur a arms foward makes the wheel base longer witch inturn puts more pressure on all fours

Not exactly.

Pushing your arms forward move your Center of Gravity aft(back) so you'll get more of the weight on the rear tires. In turn, giving you more traction, and making your front end lighter.

Same concept as an extended swingarm, it moves your center of gravity fore(front) so you'll get less traction, plus more weight on the front, in turn, causing the bike to keep the front end planted better.

[ZSNOW]

sry for the miss info....i was going by wat i read and i am not that smart:D lol

[rollie]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider
Not exactly.

Pushing your arms forward move your Center of Gravity aft(back) so you'll get more of the weight on the rear tires. In turn, giving you more traction, and making your front end lighter.

Same concept as an extended swingarm, it moves your center of gravity fore(front) so you'll get less traction, plus more weight on the front, in turn, causing the bike to keep the front end planted better.

yeah if you get +1 forward a-arms with a stock swinger, be ready for your first jump, because it makes the front end LIGHT, after i got used to it thought, i acually like it better because its much harder to nose dive, and id rather land nose high, than nose down, lol

[jrm03]

Thanks fellas. I've been surfing sites and threads looking for deals on arms. Wicked, ASR, and Janseen seem reasonable but there has been mixed responses on threads. I don't do any MX just trails. What would be a good choice. And on plus A Arms, are the bottom shock mounts in the same location on the lower arms as stock or are they moved outwards (lowering the ride hieght)?

[TBD]

"LT" doesn't stand for wheel travel. "LT" is for the shock shaft travel. You can get the same wheel travel from both types but the reason "LT" arms work really well is because the shaft travel is greater meaning that the shaft velocity is faster which will make the valving much more percise then standard.

I also ride mostly trails.

When I was riding a 250R, +1 a-arms (total 2" wider) gave me enuf added width to be alot more stable in the turns, without being too wide on the trail (same width as my rear axle.)

Now I'm doing the same thing on my 400EX.


IMO long travel a-arms / shocks are a waste of money unless you race. Standard travel shocks and +1 a-arms are gonna run ya at least $1,200 anyway. LT set up will run ya $2 grand.


There's other places you could spend that money that will gain you more benefit as a rec rider (which is what I am)

[jrm03]

1200 just for the front. THat is way out of my range. I was figuring on stock shocks with maybe extended arms. You're telling me that is not a smart choice? I do not want my spacers on anymore, but I also do not want my rear axle wider than my front for the reason of maybe clipping an object.

Originally posted by jrm03
1200 just for the front. THat is way out of my range. I was figuring on stock shocks with maybe extended arms. You're telling me that is not a smart choice? I do not want my spacers on anymore, but I also do not want my rear axle wider than my front for the reason of maybe clipping an object.

The $1200 would buy both some good shocks and the a-arms.

I went with JB Racing arms for $600 based on my shock builders specs and recommendations. The shocks ran me another $600 (converted 450R shocks)

You can get Burgard arms for $450 I think.

If you are gonna stay with the stock shocks, I'd would DEFINITELY only go +1's arms, as the added length means added leverage. (Hopefully you aren't in the 240-250 lb range like me) +1's are designed for stock length shocks. I don't think +2's are. And LT is out of the question.

[jrm03]

Yeah, I want to stay with ST. I would pay the money for arms but shocks are absurd in price. Thank you all for the help if I have any other questions I will be sure to post them. Thanks again.

Originally posted by jrm03
Yeah, I want to stay with ST. I would pay the money for arms but shocks are absurd in price. Thank you all for the help if I have any other questions I will be sure to post them. Thanks again.

When you get the a-arms, compare them to the stockers.

If the lower shock mount on the lower a-arm is further away from the frame than the stock a-arm, you might think about the YFZ or 450R front shocks.

They are both pretty good shocks. Better than the 400ex stockers. You can get them for about $200 for teh pair.

This will only work well if the lower shock on the new a-arms mount is futher away from the frame than the stock a-arms mount is, cuz the 450R shock is about 7/8" longer than the 400ex stock shock.

Check the "tacked" items on top of the 400EX Forum.

[jrm03]

I've been checking out the R shocks on ebay and they seem to be pretty consistent around 200. If shocks are really needed I would go that route. Wouldn't this be a given for the lower mount to be further away to neutralize the added leverage of the wider stance of the quad?

Originally posted by jrm03
Wouldn't this be a given for the lower mount to be further away to neutralize the added leverage of the wider stance of the quad?

As I understand it, No.

I'm told the +1's are made to work with a stock length shock.

The extra leverage is compensated for by proper valving.

I suspect if you go with stock shox and +1 a-arrms, yer gonna bottom more than revalved shocks due to the leverage.

If yer under 160 lbs or somewhere around there, it may not matter.

[jrm03]

....well, I'm a deuce even so that is a big difference. I don't have a problem bottoming out with my spacers and they are 1.5 each, or is this a totally different scenario?

Originally posted by jrm03
....well, I'm a deuce even so that is a big difference. I don't have a problem bottoming out with my spacers and they are 1.5 each, or is this a totally different scenario?

I'd just try it and see.

[wilkin250r]

Let's clear up a few incorrect responses.

All Standard Travel a-arms use stock-length shocks, whether they be +1, +2, +2+1, or +3. The shock mounting locations are identical. The stock shocks will bolt up, but they will not perform properly.

Long Travel arms actually move the lower mount further out, so Long Travel shocks are needed. However, the name "Long Travel" is misleading, they really don't give you significantly longer wheel travel then an ST setup, as TBD mentioned. The longer shafts on the shocks allow much more precise control over the valving.

+1 foward isn't always beneficial. True, it generally puts more weight on the rear wheels, but the natural conclusion is that this would put LESS weight on the front wheels. This can reduce turning ability and performance.