xsr_racing28c DRG TT build

[chad502ex]

Hello again peeps!

First and foremost, Thank you Harlen, site owner, for agreeing once again to permit another exclusive DRG450R TT build up thread on ATVRIDERS.com...

Also, xsc_racing28c has agreed to show the peeps an inside look of what it'll take to win on TT race circuits... (hopefully WOT).... not just from an engine perspective, but from what i understand, a complete utter-amazing suspension package too.. Maybe, xsc_racing28c will enlighten us along the building process with photo postings and decriptions of his suspension installation..

The last build up thread was a great sucess and logged over 12,500 hits and still counting... Many ppl participated in questions and comments that were constructive to everyones learning process. Thanks.

All is encourage to participate, and I would hope that this can be another thrill to contribute.




Now, let's start out with a decription of the buildup....


:macho

[chad502ex]

Since TT racing is all about top end muscle, I recommended to xsr_racing the following for his 450R:

1. full high velocity porting
2. taper bored FCR carb
3. high compression piston for stock bore
4. superior wet flow intake valves, OE exhaust
5. stiffer valve spring (kit)
6. new head/cylinder
7. programmed ignition curves
8. top end cam selection with retarded cam timing
9. high output exhaust (purchased by xsr_racing28c)


So, along the way we'll go over these one by one...



best of both worlds... wahooo!

[eganracing]

so r u doing any crank shaft mods? or is that out of his price range?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by eganracing
so r u doing any crank shaft mods? or is that out of his price range?

that modification is not going to be a measureable power producing mod (in stock stroke configration) and was not discussed.

For the most part, this build will be all top end- literally... :D

[eganracing]

wasnt czriders a stock bore and stroke engine to? i thought the these cranks need to be balanced to create true power. I've been talking to local engine builders and they all reccomend balancing the crank and getting a "knife" style rod. they claim it helps the engine reach its potential power faster. im not questioning your work by any means im just trying to learn more about these engines.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by eganracing
wasnt czriders a stock bore and stroke engine to? i thought the these cranks need to be balanced to create true power. I've been talking to local engine builders and they all reccomend balancing the crank and getting a "knife" style rod. they claim it helps the engine reach its potential power faster. im not questioning your work by any means im just trying to learn more about these engines.

czrider263 had a Falicon blueprinted crank with Knife rod. Whenever possible, I do recommend cranksaft work, but it's not necessary to make "true" power. I usually only perform when case is to be spit, or the customer wants to go all out. Crank work can be quite expensive, with the labor in the crankshaft such as balancing, polishing, chamferring, lightning, knife rode installation, the labor to split the case, the time involved in shipping and installation. The adventagous part of blueprinting a crankshaft is that you can have it balanced to the piston pack to reduce harmonics and reduce unnecessary stresses on the bearings.

[lumi]

this is gonna be another great one.:D :devil:







-lumi

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,
Wow, i'm glad that we got permission to put this build up online here. I'm very excited to start this build and see how it comes along.

As Chad stated, we talked about getting my machine to be as competitive as possible in the EDT National Circuit next season, and this is what we have come up with so far. I chose not to go with a lower end at this point partially due to the major amount of money already going into this project with the motor and suspension, but also because i am only 20 years old and am somewhat on a budget ( meaning I have no parental help in this build).

I wanted to keep my machine as reliable as possible, but also having substantial power to get my quad down the track. I've decided to go ahead with all of the mods above for now and i'm sure i'll end up sending the motor back to Chad after next season, for a freshen and some more intense lower and upper end work, but for now, i'm sure i'll be more than pleased.

As of now, I have pulled the motor and all of the current suspenion out, and am waiting for my new suspension to arrive and be built. The motor will be crated and shipped to chad this week, where he will disassemble it and begin the process above.

I as well as Chad will be updating this thread with both suspension and motor modifications and descriptions as they are completed and I can assure everyone will be liking what they see!!!

Lets get this thing rolling Chad!!!! I will be contacting you soon, and giving you a tracking number on the motor~!!!

Later Guys, JAY

[eganracing]

Originally posted by chad502ex
czrider263 had a Falicon blueprinted crank with Knife rod. Whenever possible, I do recommend cranksaft work, but it's not necessary to make "true" power. I usually only perform when case is to be spit, or the customer wants to go all out. Crank work can be quite expensive, with the labor in the crankshaft such as balancing, polishing, chamferring, lightning, knife rode installation, the labor to split the case, the time involved in shipping and installation. The adventagous part of blueprinting a crankshaft is that you can have it balanced to the piston pack to reduce harmonics and reduce unnecessary stresses on the bearings.


alright thank u for clarifying. cant wait to see the curve on this thing.

[TMSmx47]

Hey Chad, I may have missed it but, what year motor is this? 04/05 style or 06/07?

[chad502ex]

04/05...

[TMSmx47]

Now see THIS is what I wanna see Chad! Thanks xsr_racing28c for lettin us see the build.

[czrider263]

LETS GO DRG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Mine will be hitting the track on the 8th.

will be posting results after.

xsr_racing28c you have made a great choice going wtih chad! he does great work and is a really nice guy. and of corse his motors put out serious power.

like i said my quad is just a monster and is really hard to control.

I suggest a DASA pipe great top end.

[xsr_racing28c]

I am thinking about going with a DASA pipe later on, but for now i'm considering keep the exhaust i currently have.. It gave great top end and has made a sustantial power increase on the seat o the pants dyno... :p I currently have an M4 Full System Exhaust.

I'm gonna get everything drained and boxed up later on tonite and throw it in the cooler... I'll talk to you tommorow Chad and let you know the update on the motor.. I'm waiting on the piston, but i just may have them drop ship it to ya. Let me know the scoop on the carb also. Later guys, Jay

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,
It looks like you should have an 87 lbs package sitting on your doorstep :devil:

I'll contact you later on today, just to make sure everything is ok..

Thanks, Jay

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by chad502ex

4. superior wet flow intake valves

What exactly are wet flow intake valves?

Cant wait to see this build. Your builds are probably one of the most informational tools on this whole site...Thanks to Chad, Harlen, and the quad owners for allowing this.

[xsr_racing28c]

I'll let Chad explain more on the what exactly the wet flow valves are, but for reference we are using Ferrea Valves... They are all going to be standard sized valves as well.

I can't wait to get this thread jumping a little more as well.. I'll be having some suspension pics and stuff up very soon.. I just recieved 80 % of the suspension last nite..

~Jay

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
I'll let Chad explain more on the what exactly the wet flow valves are, but for reference we are using Ferrea Valves... They are all going to be standard sized valves as well.

I can't wait to get this thread jumping a little more as well.. I'll be having some suspension pics and stuff up very soon.. I just recieved 80 % of the suspension last nite..

~Jay

haha 80%? Ferrea valves were used on CZriders build too.

[chad502ex]

a valve may assist in flowing high cfms (air only), but its what a valve can flow with fuel mixture is more important.

Flow benches only show part of the story. Flow benches are just a tool, like a monkey wrench is to a bolt...

wet flowing a port or a valve is using 'wet' flow conditions to see the components ability to flow in real world conditions.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
What exactly are wet flow intake valves?

Cant wait to see this build. Your builds are probably one of the most informational tools on this whole site...Thanks to Chad, Harlen, and the quad owners for allowing this.

Thanks for your positive comments. Comments like this is importtant to me, but equally important to xsr_racing28c and Harlen. Lets hope that this will be a positive learning experience too...

[xsr_racing28c]

I really appreciate everyone putting interest into this build. I'm very happy that we got to post this up for everyone to see and can't wait to get it going further with more information and pictures as we move along on this project.

Chad, start taking some pics as you tear it down.. I can't wait!!!!!!

~Jay

[mic 902]

The last build posted on here helped me learn heaps. This one should be just as good and i think the small differences in how things are done for a different dicipline will be interesting. Keep us posted. :D

[chad502ex]

I have received the engine.

I'll be picturing the engine before any teardown. Also porting will be this weekend.

[xsr_racing28c]

sounds good, Can't wait to see some progress. ~Jay

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by chad502ex
a valve may assist in flowing high cfms (air only), but its what a valve can flow with fuel mixture is more important.

Flow benches only show part of the story. Flow benches are just a tool, like a monkey wrench is to a bolt...

wet flowing a port or a valve is using 'wet' flow conditions to see the components ability to flow in real world conditions.

Reasons like this is why I am glad we have these discussions. Something so simple in theory yet I never really thought about it. So far from what I've seen flow benches really aren't even all that useful. According to moto man from mototuneusa a flow bench doesn't even show results on the important cycle of the engine. Any thoughts on this chad?

[chad502ex]

very true. There are other strokes in the Otto cycle that are just as important to consider when porting.

For instance, after in take stroke, where the piston is in downward motion and reaches the bottom of the stroke, the intake charge (with mass) still contains inertia and fills the cylinder even after the piston has already been making its way towards TDC for ignition.... after BDC filling is critical to 'ram' the charge into the cylinder.... the more fill the more 'potential' energy...

there are other positions in the Otto cycle that most porters dont really consider either... but that will be explained when the next generation DRG porting is realeased.... ;)

[chad502ex]

OK, got the engine.

This is how xsr_racing28c shipped the engine to me to Maryland...

good to go when received...

[chad502ex]

here's the engine, before teardown...

[chad502ex]

I already had a new HONDA 450R on the bench; so, I used it for this build... when the HONDA order arrives I'll replentish my inventory... ;)


here's typical stock OE porting.. before DRG that is..

[chad502ex]

the stock exhaust side...

many of these most have seen beofre...

[chad502ex]

here's the new compression chamber stock look...

[chad502ex]

i've already started the porting process. Here's the finish of the compression chamber with Stainless steel 36mm superior wet flow Ferrea intake valves and OEM exhaust....

[chad502ex]

I also sunk the intake guides in case in the future xsr_racing28c wanted to put the largest cam profile available...

[chad502ex]

here's the sweat SS 36mm intake Ferrea valves...

picked these up from WPP Racing. Thx Brian.


love em...

[wppracing]

Glad I could help you...
They are the only intake valves I use...

[chad502ex]

compression chamber shaping:

compression chamber shaping is about unshrouding the valves to permit low lift flow and increase the flame front effiiciency. The valves make/break contact with the seat twice so its important that good flow exists not just when the valves are at max lift but also when the valve is near the seat too.

[xsr_racing28c]

Looks awesome Chad!!!! Glad to see your started and on a roll.. I can't wait to see some more progress and hear what you have to say on your ideas ;) ..... Hope to hear from you soon bud, i'm getting the clutch sent out monday for ya to look at.. ~Jay

Brian @ Wpp Racing: I'll be giving you a call monday to talk about possibly getting a new exhaust system from ya..

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by chad502ex
here's the sweat SS 36mm intake Ferrea valves...

picked these up from WPP Racing. Thx Brian.


love em...


Are these valves made from a two piece design?

I always though that two pieve valves were not as "strong" or reliable. They are welded together by spinning the two separate pieces in opposite directions and mechanically welding them together. Is that how these are made? Thanks.

[wppracing]

No,
They are a solid one piece design.

[chad502ex]

^^^^^^^ what he said.

[400exrider707]

Ok thanks.

[xsr_racing28c]

Well I promised I would be showing you all some of the other modifications going into this all out TT build, and here is the latest I have for you. Last week I recieved most of my suspension components. I am currently having the a arms built by JB Racing, so they will be another couple weeks.

In the pic, you'll see: ~PEP Big Bottle ZPS ARC Rear Shock
~JB Racing -1 3/8" Swingarm
~Janssen Billet Carrier
~Lonestar Axle w/ SRP Locknut
~Custom Made Rear Link

[chad502ex]

ok here's the last picture of the compression chamber before porting

then I'll show the exhaust guide chamferring...

[chad502ex]

here' the exhaust guide chamferring..

[ZRider400]

awesome pictures.

any way you would be able to post a pic of the porting tools that you use for certain "hard to reach" areas.

[chad502ex]

OK, before I post the next picture I want to introduce my next generation porting technology dubbed SSAR.

Single Stage Anti Reversion


there will be a DSAR too, but not in this build.... :macho: Stay tuned this month for DSAR


What is SSAR?

SSAR provide a reversion trap and works in cooperation with DRG porting. When the piston completes the exhaust stroke and the gasses are being pushed out the exhaust port/pipe, the piston begins to draw on the intake stroke pulling some of the gasses it just pushed out back into the cylinder contaiminating the fresh charge. Anti-reversion prohibits and decreases the reversion amplitude for every step it tries to climb back into the cylinder.

Anti-reversion porting is about one-way porting, not flow that works both directions as most port jobs pictures show. Nect time you see a picture of porting, imagine if the port works one direction equally as the other....

[chad502ex]

here's what i mean...


drag a finger from the valve to the exhaust port header flanger and it'll roll easily over the ridges.....


but,....


push you finger inward into the port and you'll catch each ridge....


:D

[chad502ex]

another shot


:macho:

[chad502ex]

here's xsr_racing28c leak down test before teardown...

looks like he was ok with valve seal and ring seal...

[chad502ex]

interesting enough was the condition of the plug when I pulled it to perform a leak down test...

looks like aluminum on the plug...

[chad502ex]

this will be for a DRG 43mm taper bore FCR carb.

[chad502ex]

of coarse since XSR_RACING28c will be getting a build, I mentioned that I would upload DRG curves for him.....

[xsr_racing28c]

:D Man you just made my day!!!! Those porting pics look great!!! I can't wait to see more....

Here are my front shocks i'll be using.

~PEP Big Bottle ZPS ARC Front TT shocks
(Pep Shock Covers)

[chad502ex]

xsr_racing28c

please explain why you selected those shocks and components....

What is required for TT suspension?

[chad502ex]

Baldwin piston to be used...

[xsr_racing28c]

Alright, well basically I decided to go with PEP shocks all around is because of all shocks i have used, I think that PEP shocks are probably the best quality. They are a little leighter weight than my previous Axis and Elka setups, and the adjustability on them are amazing.

I use the ARC (adjustable rebound and compression) shocks because it gives you a very wide range of adjustability for various track conditions.

TT racing is not only about having a big powered motor, but also how to keep that power planted, and with these shocks I am expecting to put the most power to the ground as I can.

All three shocks use ZPS ( Zero Preload System) which allows the shocks to have alot of sag and also they give a sort of slack when under acceleration, so that your front end isn't up in the air, when you should be controlling your steering.

Each shocks is specifically valved for TT racing and they each use larger reserviors to dispurse the heat easier.

~Jay

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by chad502ex
interesting enough was the condition of the plug when I pulled it to perform a leak down test...

looks like aluminum on the plug...


Yea the plug does look to have a little bit on it. :eek:

The jetting didn't seem to be too lean, but who knows. I havn't run the quad for about a month before i sent you the motor, so i can't even tell you if i noticed anything, but i check everything before i go out... I think i used a 190 main.. but i dont' know for sure.

[czrider263]

Looks sweet chad!!!

[xsr_racing28c]

For this build, I will be switching over from my current long travel setup, to a standard travel TT suspension package.

I've decided to go with JB Racing products not only because they are quality build components, but also they have great customer service, which means alot to a racer.

Up front I am going with JB Racing +2 TT a arms built from chromoly steel, which make them strong and also lighter weight which is importants for this type of racing. The arms feature two tabs on each lower arm to accomidate for the lower shock mount, and also it gives me a place to easily mount my Rath adjustable Swaybar.

Back in the rear, I am using a JB Racing Tubular Chromoly Swingarm that is 1 3/8" shorter than the stock swinger to along more weight to be transfered over the rear wheels, thus allowing more power to be put down to the ground.

[alex1212]

it will work good

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by alex1212
it will work good

nice- ... Hearing this from you means a lot!

[trx400exxracer]

Why do TT racers get shorter swingarms? just wondering

[ZRider400]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
1 3/8" shorter than the stock swinger to along more weight to be transfered over the rear wheels, thus allowing more power to be put down to the ground.


this is why.... ^^^^^^^^^

[Chino886]

Looking good Chad and Jay!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Chino886
Looking good Chad and Jay!

thx

[xsr_racing28c]

Thanks Dave!!! I'll let you swing a leg over her, once you start TT racing with me..:D

[Chino886]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Thanks Dave!!! I'll let you swing a leg over her, once you start TT racing with me..:D

I'll take you up on that offer, the money tree that I planted in the spring is finally blooming some bills, I should have TT setup in the next.....oh......20 years. :p LOL! I would love to make it to a TT Race with you next year! We will have to check our schedules and see what we can work out!

[xsr_racing28c]

Sounds good bud, Well forsure we'll get a ride in sometime next year. I am keeping the YFZ for now, so i'll still have a quad to ride off the track.....

[patrickj75]

jay,
where did you get your shocks from? how long did they take? price? thanks!

patrick

[xsr_racing28c]

I bought them off of a pro rider (Zac Willet) and they were setup by SF Racing. I'm not sure what the shocks cost new, but i'm guessing around $1300-1400.

Chad,
Anything new?? I'm anxious to hear from you on some of your ideas, just wondering what your thinking on what we talked about the other nite. Thanks, JAY

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
I Chad,
Anything new?? I'm anxious to hear from you on some of your ideas, just wondering what your thinking on what we talked about the other nite. Thanks, JAY

working on the intake now. it takes the longest to work.

hopefully tommorow night it'll get done and setup for pouring. your valve spring kit will be here on thursday, so, i want to have the head complete by them for spring installation. Once the head is done, i'll tear into your engine and measure what we have with your new cylinder, your new piston, your cam, and the clearances available to consider our talk the other night...

I'll fill everyone else in as we continue..

[xsr_racing28c]

Alright sounds like everything is moving in a positive direction!!! Can't wait to hear from you on the other things we've talked about, it kinda makes me giggly talking about how badass this motor is going to be!!!

BTW: I sent out the clutch kit today for you to check out, you should be getting it within the next couple days.. TTYL man, JAY

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,
Just a heads up, I have a DASA on the way!!!! I figured that you would like to hear that!! I'm not sure if i'm getting the specific TT header pipe with it, but i'm waiting to hear back from them on it.

~Jay

Oh yea, and i have Hardcore Engineering Front and Rear Hubs on the way also for the 450r just to touch up the rough edges on this build.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Chad,
Just a heads up, I have a DASA on the way!!!! I figured that you would like to hear that!! I'm not sure if i'm getting the specific TT header pipe with it, but i'm waiting to hear back from them on it.

~Jay

Oh yea, and i have Hardcore Engineering Front and Rear Hubs on the way also for the 450r just to touch up the rough edges on this build.

DAY 5:

very cool with the DASA exhaust and the other goodies....

i'd need to get the parts for machining out by friday (goal)...

[xsr_racing28c]

Sweet Deal Chad!! I'm so glad to see this all going smooth for us. If you don't mind, i saved that picture of the head to my computer.. that thing looks so bad ***!!! Can't wait for the intake side pics to be posted :eek2:

[kfx008]

can u post a pic pf the dasa tt pipe please

[xsr_racing28c]

I will be sure to post a pic of the DASA TT pipe once i recieve it. They told me that it was gonna be shipped out monday of this upcoming week, because the need to build a special header pipe that is specific for TT.

Chad also called me tonite and informed me that all of the parts were in his hands and ready to be machined and installed. The only thing he is waiting on yet is the FCR Carb to show up at his door, but we are thinking it should be there tommorow.

This build is going along very smoothly and I'm thrilled at the amount of time Chad has spent on the phone and through emails carefully planning each phase of this build. DRG is truly a great company to work with and I can't wait to be able to have the finished product in my hands!!!

Thanks a ton Chad!!! ~Jay

[patrickj75]

i watching this build closely. i'm hoping to have Chad do some motor work for me before next season starts.

Patrick

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
I will be sure to post a pic of the DASA TT pipe once i recieve it. They told me that it was gonna be shipped out monday of this upcoming week, because the need to build a special header pipe that is specific for TT.

Chad also called me tonite and informed me that all of the parts were in his hands and ready to be machined and installed. The only thing he is waiting on yet is the FCR Carb to show up at his door, but we are thinking it should be there tommorow.

This build is going along very smoothly and I'm thrilled at the amount of time Chad has spent on the phone and through emails carefully planning each phase of this build. DRG is truly a great company to work with and I can't wait to be able to have the finished product in my hands!!!

Thanks a ton Chad!!! ~Jay

Day 6:

WOW, thanks JAy. I appreciate your good words. Your correct, everything is going extremely well thus far and I have just about all the parts, except for the carb to aggressively begin. We'll see the inners of your engine when i disassemble her tonight. Lets hope i dont find any surprises when i take her apart. I'll be dry fitting and measuring clearances for machining...

I love your avatar picture of the SSAR and sig.... thx.

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad502ex Quote:(Lets hope i dont find any surprises when i take her apart. )

Don't say that Chad.. :eek: I'm sure everything is good, because this motor really doesn't have many hours on it, and it hasn't been pounded like alot of other machines out there.

About the Avatar, man it looks tight.. thats my favorite pic yet!!!

[Chino886]

Originally posted by chad502ex
here's what i mean...


drag a finger from the valve to the exhaust port header flanger and it'll roll easily over the ridges.....


but,....


push you finger inward into the port and you'll catch each ridge....


:D

Will this work with a head that has already been ported?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Chino886
Will this work with a head that has already been ported?
the concept will work equally well on all heads had the porting not been fudged up.

exhaust port shape with SSAR is critical though...

spacings between steps were determined for tuning, as with port shape,...

I usually do not prefer to try to port after someone else has ported because sometimes the material may have been removed were i can't get it back...

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by Chino886
Will this work with a head that has already been ported?


Dave,
Are you unhappy with the porting you have??

You could always just buy a new head and start from scratch as i have. If anyone is wondering, we decided to go with all new upper end components just to be sure that we are starting fresh. This means we have a brand new head, Valves, Spring Kit, Cylinder and Piston. I just figured if i'm going to go ahead with this build i might as well go the extra step and just buy all new components. Plus, i'm sure Chad is much happier working on new, clean parts...haha..

:devil:

[Chino886]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Dave,
Are you unhappy with the porting you have??

You could always just buy a new head and start from scratch as i have. If anyone is wondering, we decided to go with all new upper end components just to be sure that we are starting fresh. This means we have a brand new head, Valves, Spring Kit, Cylinder and Piston. I just figured if i'm going to go ahead with this build i might as well go the extra step and just buy all new components. Plus, i'm sure Chad is much happier working on new, clean parts...haha..

:devil:

Hey Jay,

I honestly can't tell you about the porting, I have yet to ride it, 8 days and counting......LOL! I have ridden it once at the track and it was before the rear shock was set up properly so I was more worried about that. The previous owner said that it was kicking out 53ish HPs so that is good for me, but the SSAR intrigues me~!

Dave

[MR.BIG]

I just wanted to say that this thread is awesome and very informing and when its time to get my motor done Chad will definately be getting it.:macho

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by Chino886
Hey Jay,

I honestly can't tell you about the porting, I have yet to ride it, 8 days and counting......LOL! I have ridden it once at the track and it was before the rear shock was set up properly so I was more worried about that. The previous owner said that it was kicking out 53ish HPs so that is good for me, but the SSAR intrigues me~!

Dave

I see... Well I promise that i'll let you jump on mine once its done, and just see what the power feels like. I have never been on a quad with this amount of motor work done to it, so i'm sure i'll be amazed at how much extra i'm gonna have under me. I'd also like to feel the 06 power, so maybe you'll let me jump on yours??

We are hoping for 35 hp outta mine :rolleyes: so stay tuned for a dyno report... haha..

MR BIG: Thanks for the compliment!!! I can assure you that you'll be happy working with Chad!! Keep an eye on this build and see what the finished product will be!!!! There may be some suprises later on, we're not sure on what the finished product will be yet...;)

[Chino886]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
I see... Well I promise that i'll let you jump on mine once its done, and just see what the power feels like. I have never been on a quad with this amount of motor work done to it, so i'm sure i'll be amazed at how much extra i'm gonna have under me. I'd also like to feel the 06 power, so maybe you'll let me jump on yours??

Sounds like a plan! I just need to get some flat track tires wheels and a sway bar and I should be good to go to a race with you! You know I will let you ride my turd! :devil:

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by Chino886
Sounds like a plan! I just need to get some flat track tires wheels and a sway bar and I should be good to go to a race with you! You know I will let you ride my turd! :devil:

Don't worry about the parts needed, you should see my shop.. I've got tires to outfit 10 quads..haha...

[Chino886]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Don't worry about the parts needed, you should see my shop.. I've got tires to outfit 10 quads..haha...

Well, we should pick a date and a race to go to! Are there any in the IOWA, ILLINOIS, MISSOURI, or KANSAS area that you plan on making a trip to?

[xsr_racing28c]

I'll check the National Schedule for next year and we'll pic one out.. I'll keep you posted on that..

[Chino886]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
I'll check the National Schedule for next year and we'll pic one out.. I'll keep you posted on that..

National huh :eek2: ????

Whoa.....I guess I better find a TT Track to practice on! LOL! :eek:

[xsr_racing28c]

haha.. :blah: I'll try to find a smaller one in Illinois somewhere where we can meet in the middle and race. That way you don't have to jump in a National right away.. ~Jay

[chad502ex]

Jay, your PM box is full...

[Chino886]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
haha.. :blah: I'll try to find a smaller one in Illinois somewhere where we can meet in the middle and race. That way you don't have to jump in a National right away.. ~Jay

I would appreciate that! :devil: :macho

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad, its cleaned out now.. sorry. I know how much you hate that...:p

[xsr_racing28c]

Mr Chad,
Now your pm box is full.. :blah:


So should i just get an A/F Screw?? What kind and where should i get it from?? thanks, Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Mr Chad,
Now your pm box is full.. :blah:


So should i just get an A/F Screw?? What kind and where should i get it from?? thanks, Jay

emptied. doh!

i like the Scotts Performance...

[xsr_racing28c]

Sounds good Chad, I'll check into it.. ~Jay

[chad502ex]

inpection during teardown..

[chad502ex]

on the head side.


not a bad looking burn IMO.

[chad502ex]

You see what i see?

here's signs that the ol' JE piston had piston skirt rub. not bad just exists...

[chad502ex]

here's what i mean...

[chad502ex]

no signs of underneath discolorings from excessive heat.

plenty of lubrication, even though the JE wrist pin seems binded on removal...

[chad502ex]

not excessive but generally looser than most builds i've done, but still in tolerances by another .014"...

Since I got thing available, I always take a few extra minutes to check what i can for the customers.

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,
I just got your message on my phone and everything sounds pretty good. I will be able to call you back but not until about 10 my time, so if its ok if i call you i will, but let me know. I just want to discuss a couple of things, but i don't want to bother you late. Just let me know bud.. Thanks , Jay

[chad502ex]

OK the good stuff now.

Here is the piston to valve (P-V) clearances with a 04 crf camshaft, Baldwin 14:1 piston...

As you all can see plenty of room.

What's rather impressive is the measured squish on the Baldwin. With the stock 0.027" thick OEM gasket and the "in-the-hole" or "below deck" measurement of 0.020", the total squish will be the sum of the two at 0.042"...... not bad at all.... I was hoping to sqeeze for less squish and machine the cylinder, but honestly 0.035" is about perfect... I don't like getting more that 0.015" below deck- so we'll go with that cylinder height.

we could deck the head and get more compression? what ya say xsr_racing28c?

either way- I think twisting the camshaft back to adjust the P-V clearances will be required... Whats great is I already sunk the intake valve guides to allow for larger profiles down the road if desired... but if we decide to deck the head, i'll be decked in for the crf so i need to know now if you ever have the desire to get more top end cam with more overlap... it's up to you.

0.372" in lift
0.312" ex lift

a Web 208 is the following:
0.408 in lift
0.342 ex lift

the bigger the valve lift on another cam selected will decrease the P-V clearance pictured. A 208 would decrease intake P-V to about 0.055". you dont want to less than that!!!!!

...but were not doing the 208 on this build, we are doing the 04 crf cam

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Chad,
I just got your message on my phone and everything sounds pretty good. I will be able to call you back but not until about 10 my time, so if its ok if i call you i will, but let me know. I just want to discuss a couple of things, but i don't want to bother you late. Just let me know bud.. Thanks , Jay

Read that.. i would like to talk about it all tonite if at all possible.. Can I call ya in 1 1/2 hours?? Thanks, Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Read that.. i would like to talk about it all tonite if at all possible.. Can I call ya in 1 1/2 hours?? Thanks, Jay

call me tommorrow jay. thanks.

[xsr_racing28c]

Sounds good, I'll talk to you then.. All the pics look good and it looks like your coming along really well.. Can't wait to figure out our next step... Talk to you tommorow..~Jay

[chad502ex]

Well, I've been pushing the math a bit for the xsr-racing28c build..


conservatively speaking-

A. looks like we can sit at 14:1 and probally dyno at about 52-54hp.

B. we can deck the head 0.020" and get near 54-56hp at 15.25:1

C. we can deck 0.030" and get near 56-57hp at 16:1

D. sqeeze everything out with decking 0.040" and get 57-60hp at 17:1...


Hopefully this demonstrates to all the peeps how the Pro's are getting 60hp....

BTW: this is static compression ratio, not dynamic compression ratio with cam overlap specifications included...

xsr_racing28c, you did say you want a reliable build, right? now, the choice is yours.. the more of an edge you want the more you must roll the dice with reduced P-V clearances...

[MR.BIG]

So many choices I would chose option A!:p
With the 14:1 piston what is the minimum octane you can run?

[chad502ex]

DAY 7:

well, if he goes with option "A" i could probally complete the build this weekend if I work Saturday and Sunday on it (minus the carb getting machined).

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,

I'm gonna want to talk to you on the phone about the options, so i plan on calling you a little after 5 your time tonite. We've talked about it all before and i'm leaning towards doing a little bit of machining, but want to talk to you..

Thanks man, Jay

[czrider263]

Chad this winter after the season i might be up for squeezing my motor a little tighter IDK...

Let me know about this weekend on you being there to help dyno tune.


3 1\2 hours on web 208 still good and crossing my fingers LOL.

[xsr_racing28c]

Guess what is coming Chad!!!!!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Chad this winter after the season i might be up for squeezing my motor a little tighter IDK...

Let me know about this weekend on you being there to help dyno tune.


3 1\2 hours on web 208 still good and crossing my fingers LOL.

kewl. I want to get with you too real soon to dyno, just not this weekend.

Glad to see your build is going well and you were able to do well your last race. We'll have to discuss some options. I'll talk to you about it soon.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Guess what is coming Chad!!!!!

Great. I'll start the case splitting this weekend after I complete the head.

Be sure to get the crank balanced to the entire Baldwin piston pack weight. You'll have to tell the weight to Falicon so they can harmonically balance your piston to the crank...


wahooo!! :macho

[xsr_racing28c]

Will do Chad, Janssen told me that they are contacting Baldwin tommorow for the weight to notify Falicon. I'll make sure everything goes smoothly so we get it back and installed asap..

Man this build just keeps getting better and better!!! ~Jay

[xsr_racing28c]

Alright i have a couple of questions:

What kind of fuel do you think i'm going to be needing to run with the setup that we discussed tonite?

Also,
When you said you found deposits on the spark plug that looked to be aluminum, did you find out where that came from??

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Alright i have a couple of questions:

What kind of fuel do you think i'm going to be needing to run with the setup that we discussed tonite?

Also,
When you said you found deposits on the spark plug that looked to be aluminum, did you find out where that came from??

nope, the piston had some shinny scrath marks. maybe this is where it hit the piston and removed some shavings that collected on the plug... it could have been something entered the cylinder, but it doesn't matter- it looked fine.

[xsr_racing28c]

Alrighty cool..

Well let me know how the rest of the weekend goes with teardown and all.

For all that don't know: Today I've decided to go ahead and throw down for a whole new lower end. We are going with a complete Falicon Supercrank Assembly which has been balanced, blueprinted, welded and trued to reduce all harmonics that will cause the crank to be out of balance.

Chad and I discussed doing the crank and we just thought that by putting down this much power, a lower end to withstand the extra demands of power was a good idea though essentially it won't give any power gains, but will just make the motor more reliable.

We also are just going to keep the motor at 14:1 compression for now to see how it dyno's out, and at a later time the head will be sent to DRG again, to get some more elaborate machining done to the head to put out some more usable power!!

Thanks to all who are interested in this build, Its a first for me, so i'm very excited to be working with DRG to make this motor a monster and keep us competitive on the track.

~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Alrighty cool..

Well let me know how the rest of the weekend goes with teardown and all.

For all that don't know: Today I've decided to go ahead and throw down for a whole new lower end. We are going with a complete Falicon Supercrank Assembly which has been balanced, blueprinted, welded and trued to reduce all harmonics that will cause the crank to be out of balance.

Chad and I discussed doing the crank and we just thought that by putting down this much power, a lower end to withstand the extra demands of power was a good idea though essentially it won't give any power gains, but will just make the motor more reliable.

We also are just going to keep the motor at 14:1 compression for now to see how it dyno's out, and at a later time the head will be sent to DRG again, to get some more elaborate machining done to the head to put out some more usable power!!

Thanks to all who are interested in this build, Its a first for me, so i'm very excited to be working with DRG to make this motor a monster and keep us competitive on the track.

~Jay

well said.

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,
If you could do a full list of mods and new parts and work going into the motor portion of the build including the lower end that would be awesome.. I would rather you do it, since you know exactly what is going into this puppy..

Once all of the new parts come in here for the rest of the quad, i'll get a list going for suspension and misc items..

thanks, Jay:macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Chad,
If you could do a full list of mods and new parts and work going into the motor portion of the build including the lower end that would be awesome.. I would rather you do it, since you know exactly what is going into this puppy..

Once all of the new parts come in here for the rest of the quad, i'll get a list going for suspension and misc items..

thanks, Jay:macho

Jay,

This was already done on the second post of this thread, except I added SSAR free of charge, and you added a Falicon crank...

[xsr_racing28c]

:D Sorry, I totally missed.. :blah:

[chad502ex]

carb teardown for 43mm taper bore....

the throttle body is ready for machining.

the NOSS adapter is welded on prior to taper boring so that the NOSS adapter has smooth transition into the bore of the carb.

[chad502ex]

xsr_racing28c,

I'll be sending you another parts list for the bottom end parts like gaskets, seals, new bearings. We'll need to order the HONDA parts on Monday.

[xsr_racing28c]

Sounds good, just invoice me through email like you have done in the past. I will get you money over right away.. ~jay

[chad502ex]

OK, I' will have the bottom end order invoice sent to you by tommorrow night.

Also, your carb is at the machinist.

[xsr_racing28c]

Alright sounds good Chad!! i can't wait to see it done when it comes back.

Have you started on the bottom end teardown yet??

[chad502ex]

no. probally wont spread parts arounf for a bit.. :D

[chad502ex]

ok, now that the build has been delays due to xsr_racing28c's desire for a blueprinted crank while I have it in my possession, I've gotten the list of small HONDA parts that we'll need to complete the crankshaft installation....

xsr_racing28c- I'll send you the invoice tonight for the new HONDA parts order plus labor.

Also, I'll be finishing the head this week, assembling your carb, programming your ignition, splitting the cases in prep for the arrival of the Falicon crankshaft..


Let me know if you have any further questions...

[xsr_racing28c]

Sounds good Chad, Once i get the invoice, i'll have a money order out to you right away.

The only thing is that the stock crank is gonna have to be sent back to Falicon for the core..

Otherwise, all sounds good!!!
~jay

[kfx008]

caint wait to see the dasa tt pipe

[xsr_racing28c]

Talked to Janssen Motorsports this morning and the Dasa exhaust should be here late this week or early next.

I'll post pics when it arrives

[kfx008]

sweet thanks:cool:

[Chino886]

Hey Jay/Chad,

I might have missed it in the thread somewhere, but what is the difference in the DASA TT pipe as opposed to the DASA "shelf" pipe?

Thanks,
Chinerweiners!

[xsr_racing28c]

Dave,

Here is a really really bad drawing of what the TT pipe looks like incomparison to the regualar mx style header.

The TT pipe is essentially shorter than the normal style, because it bends alot quicker and heads back to the silencer as the regular style makes a more horseshoe style bend off the head to build more low end power. This isn't that good of a analysis of the differences but for now this is all i can give ya. Once i get the actual pipe here, i'll show the differences.

[slosh13]

That is such a good drawing:blah: :p

[xsr_racing28c]

Thanks man!!!!:D

I think it at least gives a little idea of what the difference is.

~Jay

[slosh13]

this is a great thread going with you and chad. Be sure to keep up on the progess!! Seems like he's taking care of you very well:D

[chad502ex]

OK wahoooo! back on track... just finished pouring the intake DRG..... Hopefully, tommorrow I'll finish the head to post pictures for everyone... I really like what i've done thus far on this SSAR.

Friday night, I get to pick up the carb from the machinist. He's been real busy building his jet-shi's too... The carb is real sweet all brand new looking out-of-the-box and all.... I'll bore in the intake boot against the head and the carb for absolute smooth flow transitioning...


TT headers are smaller in length to build more top end power. The longer the intake tract, or the exhaust, or both the more low end it develops....as, the shorter the more top it'll develop.. and since this build is all about top end, that's what will suit the build the best. xsr_racing28c was right... except that drawing will go down in history Jay LOL!!!

[xsr_racing28c]

Yea Chad is definatley a great person to have build your motor!!! I'm really looking forward to seeing him build the motor up once to crank arrives at his door. It should be a week or so, and then the assembly process will insue...

Thanks Slosh13 for the comments also!! ~Jay

[chad502ex]

Thanks I appreciate you good comments.


Here is the infamous SSAR signature. Kinda like sstamping a serial number on the side...

DRG on the other don't worry..

:D

[xsr_racing28c]

Looks super sick Chad!!! You just need to figure out how to change that first S to a D once I sent back my head next year for the DSAR.. :devil: It'll be a stealth DSAR in SSAR skin...

Anyways, Great Job and glad to hear the head is pretty much summed up!!! Oh yea and thanks for the help before on the phone Chad.

~Jay

[chad502ex]

hey xsr_racing28c,.... on another TT note, I just purchased a set of 20 x 10 x 10 soft American Racer rears on Douglas Black label, ...

you have any thoughts as to what most TT racers use?

Has most TT racers thought about tire diameter and tire roll-out advantages?

just wondering your thoughts on these topics...

[MR.BIG]

Thats the size I use to use. I use to use hoosiers, Mccreary, and american racers came out towards the end before I sold my bike.

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,
What compound are they?? sd23, sd33, sd38? also, yea TT'ers also check rollout to make sure that they are using the same tire size on each side. What did you get them for?? Dyno?? I use 10x10 American Racers as well...

~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Chad,
What compound are they?? sd23, sd33, sd38? also, yea TT'ers also check rollout to make sure that they are using the same tire size on each side. What did you get them for?? Dyno?? I use 10x10 American Racers as well...

~Jay

s23 20" ers for drag and dyno. I went with the soft in case i wanted to drag...

[chad502ex]

the heads complete. I took the keepers out of the old head, so i had a chance to snap a couple more pictures...

[chad502ex]

here's a snap of the condition of the valve seats.. yuck.

[chad502ex]

final pictures of the head completed.

[chad502ex]

with the valves installed with the Ferrea valves and KW spring kit too.


Ready for installation....



xsr_racing28c: I received payment today. I'll get the bottom end order in tommorrow.

[chad502ex]

one of a kind....

dimensional porting....


no egg-shaped port here....

[Kilabanshee]

Looking good Chad. Can't wait to see some numbers!

[xsr_racing28c]

Everything looks awesome Chad!!! Great Job!!!!

Gosh your making it harder on me now that i have to look at all of these pics, i just wish i could have it in my hands!!!!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Everything looks awesome Chad!!! Great Job!!!!

Gosh your making it harder on me now that i have to look at all of these pics, i just wish i could have it in my hands!!!!

I can ship your old head back so you have something to drool on.... LOL

speaking of which-- do you want me to ship all that heavy metal back (your old parts) or what?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Kilabanshee
Looking good Chad. Can't wait to see some numbers!

thanks man..


you get my message?

[xsr_racing28c]

[speaking of which-- do you want me to ship all that heavy metal back (your old parts) or what? [/B]

Yea if you could ship it back with the motor that'd be great, only because i can use them for spares if i even need them.... ~Jay

If you send me the old head, i'm only going to get more depressed :(

Later bud, Jay:macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Yea if you could ship it back with the motor that'd be great, only because i can use them for spares if i even need them.... ~Jay

If you send me the old head, i'm only going to get more depressed :(

Later bud, Jay:macho

the return of all your spare parts could add to your return ship weight significantly... I'll send the spare engine.. hehe.

[xsr_racing28c]

It's up to you how you wanna do it. You can send the stuff back now if you want, i'll just paypal you the money for shipping.

About the clutch stuff... Do you think that the clutch i sent you is gonna be an improvement?? You said something about barnett springs, are the DP ones i sent good enough?

Also, the falicon should be to you as soon as next week.. Probably the following week early though.

~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
It's up to you how you wanna do it. You can send the stuff back now if you want, i'll just paypal you the money for shipping.

About the clutch stuff... Do you think that the clutch i sent you is gonna be an improvement?? You said something about barnett springs, are the DP ones i sent good enough?

Also, the falicon should be to you as soon as next week.. Probably the following week early though.

~Jay

ok we'll work it out...

the HONDA bottom end parts will get ordered tommorrow so next friday hopefully i'll have them to assembly your build next weekend..

barrnett springs are stiffer. your springs were about 5% stiffer than stock.. we have more than 5% more power putting through the setup/// :D

[xsr_racing28c]

sounds good chad! I will keep up on the crank and keep you posted.

I heard from jb racing today and my tt arms are done,so I should have the chassis back on the shop floor by next weekend hopefully.

overall,the build is going nicely! I'm getting very anxious though!

-Jay

[xsr_racing28c]

Just wondering if there has been any further progress on the motor or carb Chad??

[chad502ex]

i pick your carb up tonight from the machinist.

waiting on the new crank and bottom end parts to arrive...

[fandl450r]

Jay I can't wait to see it all put back together, and Chad you never cease to impress me sir! :)

[xsr_racing28c]

You can't wait to see it put back together??? How do you think I feel?? :devil: I'm so excited to see this quad up on all fours and with a motor installed. Its been bare frame for the last month and a half..

The bottom should be there hopefully later on this week or early next.

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
You can't wait to see it put back together??? How do you think I feel?? :devil: I'm so excited to see this quad up on all fours and with a motor installed. Its been bare frame for the last month and a half..

The bottom should be there hopefully later on this week or early next.

Haha I know the feeling. My motor is down and out at the moment. Trying to decide what I want to do with it. :(

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
You can't wait to see it put back together??? How do you think I feel?? :devil: I'm so excited to see this quad up on all fours and with a motor installed. Its been bare frame for the last month and a half..

The bottom should be there hopefully later on this week or early next.

well until then, you had given me permission to build my DSAR and I'm taking advantage of some time to work my clunker!! :devil:

fandl450r, thanks man! why you saying that tho? just curious...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by fandl450r
Haha I know the feeling. My motor is down and out at the moment. Trying to decide what I want to do with it. :(

;)

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by chad502ex
;)

LOL Chad, I shall be sending you a PM shortly sir! ;)

[xsr_racing28c]

fandl450r,
You'll be very happy working with Chad!! I can't say enough how great it is to work with such a nice person for once!!!

What exactly are you looking to get done to your motor?
~Jay

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
fandl450r,
You'll be very happy working with Chad!! I can't say enough how great it is to work with such a nice person for once!!!

What exactly are you looking to get done to your motor?
~Jay

At the moment, looking at redoing the whole bottom end. Because of the crank finally seizing. So new piston, cylinder, crank, possibly some modifications to my current FCR.

[xsr_racing28c]

Eeeekkk sounds like a horrible scene!!! Well I'm glad i decided to just go all out and replace my whole bottom end as well instead of sticking with the stocker, cuz i would hate to do all of this upper end work and then lose it all due to a lower end blowout.
~Jay

[fandl450r]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Eeeekkk sounds like a horrible scene!!! Well I'm glad i decided to just go all out and replace my whole bottom end as well instead of sticking with the stocker, cuz i would hate to do all of this upper end work and then lose it all due to a lower end blowout.
~Jay

Yea thats one reason why I may even put a new transmission in it while its taken apart. I'd rather just rebuild my current motor, and know for a fact everything is new, than buy used, and be screwed.

Horrific is an understatement, pulling a oil filter out covered if shavings, about brought a grown man to tears.

[chad502ex]

OK xsr_racing28c, I've got a 'core' all boxxed up for your crank. I'll ship one of my old cranks in my spare parts bin so you can get your 'core' money back as soon as possible.

[chad502ex]

and you knew I had to assemble your sweet new carb tonight... i just could let it sit there ready to be assembled so i did it...


wahhhooooo!

this picture is just after i picked it up from getting machined...

[chad502ex]

here's the new DRG 43mm taper bore carb with integrated NOSS adapter machined into the throttle body for smooth transitioning...


wahhhhooooo!!!

:macho

[xsr_racing28c]

Ahhhhh it looks SICK!!!! That carb looks wicked Chad!!

I'm glad to see now all we're waiting on is the crank..:macho
JAY

[redrider05]

any new news on the build??

[xsr_racing28c]

Well after all, we are still waiting on the crank to arrive at DRG, but i did get word Thursday that the Falicon was to be shipped out Friday at before noon, and should arrive at DRG mid next week.

Other than that, the motor is at a stand still for now being that the crank is in transit. As for the chassis and suspension, the a arms havn't showed up yet, but i have gotten some progress on the other components of the quad.

I did get to install my new DG ProPeg nerfs w/out heelguards, and also a couple other things have shown up like a CRF perch and lever(clutch), a 3.2.1 Carbon Fiber Gas Cap, and also today i just picked up my Front Hardkor Tapered Hubs....

Originally i was going to go with front and rear Hardkor hubs, but due to some flaws in the rear hubs, Hardkor is suspending build on the rears until they have fixed there current problem with a few hubs that have come back with cracks.

Here are the fronts.....

[chad502ex]

Since this build has SSAR, and I'm waiting for his crank to arrive next week, I thought I'd finish my DSAR this weekend...

here's a sneak peak of DSAR as 'DRY FIT'- before pouring:

[chad502ex]

hey XSR_RACING28c:

tommorrow I'll finish the logo on your carb, and flow the intake into your head and carb..

I'll take pictures too..

:D

[400exrider0004]

woah!!!!

[GPracer2500]

Woah is right! :eek2: What are we looking at there?

BTW Chad, did you ever get that sample magazine issue?

[chad502ex]

no copy of the periodical of the DLC coating, but i've found out that it is super hard coating, DLC, that we used on czrider263 custom "FLAT" Ti intake valves.... You'll see real soon that "FLAT" is out with my next product release.... ;)


DSAR is Dual Stage Anti Reversion that uses SSAR technology along with intake anti reversion technology to help 'store' the pressure at the intake valve backings to 'ram-air' the intake charge into the cylinder upon valve opening. Because of the intake valve is closed during ~450 degrees of crankshaft rotation, a pressure builds at the back of the intake valve due to the ramming effect known as rarefaction intake waves.... These rarefaction waves are elastic in nature and have a damped oscillatory nature with energy. DSAR 'stores' this energy within the 'traps' of the intake porting and inhibit backward pressure flow out the intact tract... As opposed to the stepped design on the SSAR, the DSAR intake port has integrated 'traps' that permit forward flow but 'traps' outward flow to the air filter. Without DSAR intake 'traps', the reverse pressure at the back of the intake valve can easily flow back to the carb where it stalls fuel flow out the carb metered fuel circuits. DSAR intake anti-reversion uses the energy of the refracted waves to constructively interfere with FORWARD waves theoretically provides an entire RPM gain throughout the power curve.

[Pappy]

I think we ought to get chad a set of ear plugs for christmas.....his brain has got to be about full:p

[GPracer2500]

Very interesting. What do you mean by "dry-fit" before pouring? What are you pouring?

I'd be curious to see the reaction from the crew over on the org. Although, I'd understand if you're not too keen on sharring over there--with the drama, tension, agendas, and the rest....I bet it'd be entertaining though!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Very interesting. What do you mean by "dry-fit" before pouring? What are you pouring?

I'd be curious to see the reaction from the crew over on the org. Although, I'd understand if you're not too keen on sharring over there--with the drama, tension, agendas, and the rest....I bet it'd be entertaining though!

'dry fit was before epoxy fill to keep my DSAR insets from moving...

there a whole lot to see.. ;)


and yes its posted over there already... i think there jaws hit the floor.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
I think we ought to get chad a set of ear plugs for christmas.....his brain has got to be about full:p

LOL!! Speaking of Christmas, wait to you see what Santa brings a few... :D

[mike nash]

Your too funny. Whens the sleigh arriving@ my place?

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad the DSAR looks completely insane!!!!

( Chad502ex:hey XSR_RACING28c:

tommorrow I'll finish the logo on your carb, and flow the intake into your head and carb..

I'll take pictures too..)

Sounds great!!! I can't wait to see the carb with the etching! Man i'm so pumped about getting this thing back... I can't wait to ride on it and feel this monster!

BTW: Keep blueprinting plans for the future of this motor, cuz you know after ice racing, i'll be out for more power....Just Cuz' !!!! HAHA :devil:

I CAN"T WAIT!!!!

:macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
I'd be curious to see the reaction from the crew over .....

Although, I'd understand if you're not too keen on sharring over there--with the drama, tension, agendas, and the rest....I bet it'd be entertaining though!

yet again another typical reaction by 'them' ;). no longer can they claim that its just technical.- more about sales...

was that entertaining enough for you? you said it- agenda.


hehe

[chad502ex]

as promised to xsr_racing28c...


I've finished the carb, ported the intake bot to the head, and also ported the intake boot to the carb...


good to GO!

[chad502ex]

intake of DSAR complete--- wahoooo!!!!

[chad502ex]

:cool:

[kfx008]

wow lol caint wait 2 see it all together and the pipe also

[Kilabanshee]

Originally posted by chad502ex
intake of DSAR complete--- wahoooo!!!!

Holy Sh*!:eek2: :eek2: :devil: :devil: Once again your work looks amazing Chad.

[chad502ex]

thanks.

[xsr_racing28c]

Looks awesome Mr Chad!!!

[red2004 TRX450R]

chad does you DSAR fins decrease air flow?
have you had them on a flow bench?
how much work did you / can you do to the short side radius on a 450r head? because you will need a lot there to make up for the fins?
if the DSAR works you may want to look at tiging them in.

i read more speed mags and books than most and never seen any thing like that before.
I have been porting car heads for years so i know a little about the process and head design.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by red2004 TRX450R
chad does you DSAR fins decrease air flow?
have you had them on a flow bench?
how much work did you / can you do to the short side radius on a 450r head? because you will need a lot there to make up for the fins?
if the DSAR works you may want to look at tiging them in.

i read more speed mags and books than most and never seen any thing like that before.
I have been porting car heads for years so i know a little about the process and head design.

fair questions to ask.

the DSAR fins end up with the near same cross sectional as my DRG porting -almost same volume too. The DSAR porting is about one way high velocity porting. The picture illustrates the reverse flow inhibiting.... The forward flow of DSAR is same as DRG forward flow with added anti reversion.... my ssr apex is moved forward. the best part of DSAR is that the fins can be lowered if needed to increase the cross-sectional. extremely easy to tune in cause only the venetians need to be adjusted. the spacing between each fin also was pre-determined. the upper length and lower lengths are still the same for proper mainstream centering... the DRG design has already proven itself on the dyno and bench- DSAR and SSAR is an extension of DRG.. I know that this design is never been done in any application- that's ok just wait to you see my piston... ;). A lot of calculation went into this. the inserts are not going anywhere. I would like to see cnc inserts fabricated...

There is another veiwpoint you havn't seen, and that is intentional for now. ;)

[red2004 TRX450R]

Originally posted by chad502ex
fair questions to ask.

the DSAR fins end up with the near same cross sectional as my DRG porting -almost same volume too. The DSAR porting is about one way high velocity porting. The picture illustrates the reverse flow inhibiting.... The forward flow of DSAR is same as DRG forward flow with added anti reversion.... my ssr apex is moved forward. the best part of DSAR is that the fins can be lowered if needed to increase the cross-sectional. extremely easy to tune in cause only the venetians need to be adjusted. the spacing between each fin also was pre-determined. the upper length and lower lengths are still the same for proper mainstream centering... the DRG design has already proven itself on the dyno and bench- DSAR and SSAR is an extension of DRG.. I know that this design is never been done in any application- that's ok just wait to you see my piston... ;). A lot of calculation went into this. the inserts are not going anywhere. I would like to see cnc inserts fabricated...

There is another veiwpoint you havn't seen, and that is intentional for now. ;)

KOOL
I have never ported a 450r head or seen a cut a way drawing showing thickness or water jackets but I guess you can remove quite a bit .
do you have any head casting diagrams showing wall thickness, water jackets and port locations.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by red2004 TRX450R
KOOL
I have never ported a 450r head or seen a cut a way drawing showing thickness or water jackets but I guess you can remove quite a bit .
do you have any head casting diagrams showing wall thickness, water jackets and port locations.

I have spare heads that i don't use anymore that i've cut to measure port wall thicknesses..

Here is a cut-away of a 450r head that was posted a while back by somebody....

[xsr_racing28c]

Chad,

Just wondering if you got anything fun in the mail yet??? Janssen said they got the core today, so thats all good. I can't wait to see more progress pics once the crank arrives.....

Thanks, JAY

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Chad,

Just wondering if you got anything fun in the mail yet??? Janssen said they got the core today, so thats all good. I can't wait to see more progress pics once the crank arrives.....

Thanks, JAY

as of yesterday, I still have not received the Falicon crank.... :(

[xsr_racing28c]

Alright thats fine, they sent it out Friday, so you should be seeing it real soon.

Hows your build coming along? ~jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Alright thats fine, they sent it out Friday, so you should be seeing it real soon.

Hows your build coming along? ~jay

I'm still on the DSAR porting of my new head. Last night before halloween, I was slicing and dicing an old head to measure for clearances on the port floor... ;)

[chad502ex]

an awesome sweat looking Falicon crankshaft showed up at my door. Now this is Falicons best work IMO that I've seen. Talking about lighning the crankshaft journels... just look, inside journel beveling and outside journel edge beveling too.. welded pin, polished, Knide rof, balancing.... ahhhhh.

[chad502ex]

now, tommorrow I'll start the teardown and split the cases.

[Chino886]

How did they weld the Tootsie Pop to the rod?

I bet that adds 100 HP on the butt dyno.....:devil:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Chino886
How did they weld the Tootsie Pop to the rod?

I bet that adds 100 HP on the butt dyno.....:devil:

LOL, right before I assemble, I toss the pop into the bottom end to shatter and coat the entire bottom end with sweetness then i pick up the center and eat it.

[Chino886]

Originally posted by chad502ex
LOL, right before I assemble, I toss the pop into the bottom end to shatter and coat the entire bottom end with sweetness then i pick up the center and eat it.

How many licks to get to the center......case.....hahaha!

Looks bad arse! Now when I go to the TT Race with Jay, he will have to give me a 3 bike length head start.....LOL!

[xsr_racing28c]

OMFG!!!!!
I am geeeeeeking out right now, I can't believe how awesome that thing looks!!

More PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also Chad, you might wanna put that tootsie pop in your mouth to keep you from drooling, cuz i know you are!!!!!FALICON!!!!

~Jay

[Mobile Dyno]

Chad that DSAR is insane:eek2: ;) . I can't wait to see what HP difference it makes. When are we dynoing it :blah: ?

Nice Build XSR :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Mobile Dyno
Chad that DSAR is insane:eek2: ;) . I can't wait to see what HP difference it makes. When are we dynoing it :blah: ?

Nice Build XSR :D

I believe you were the first to see DSAR in my hand, now installed.. was this what you envisioned it would look like?

when I'm finished xsr_racings28c build, I'll be getting my assembled to bring to you.

[xsr_racing28c]

Thanks Mobile Dyno!! I am very excited about this build myself especially after seeing the pic of the crank finally...

Just a heads up, I got word that the DASA TT pipe is in up at Janssen, so i'm gonna pick it up tommorow nite as soon as I can.

I'll snap some pics and post them up for you guys. I'm getting my new snowmobile tommorow nite so i'm going to be all smiles with my new toys in the shop.
Also, JB Racing sent out the arms today, so i should be getting them early next week, and then we are gonna install everything so we can get most of the suspension all setup since the motor is being massaged by Chad for a little bit yet!

BTW... Chad, take your time~~~

Later, Jay

[chad502ex]

take my time.... LOL. I may have this together sooner than you think!!

LOL!

[xsr_racing28c]

Lookin' great bud!!!

I can't wait to see more pics!! Its kinda weird to think that in about two weeks i should have a complete quad again. haha..

I'll be jackin the thread soon and posting some suspension and chassis pics, so i hope you don't mind me buttin' in with my pics and descriptions.

Thanks, JAY

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Lookin' great bud!!!

I can't wait to see more pics!! Its kinda weird to think that in about two weeks i should have a complete quad again. haha..

I'll be jackin the thread soon and posting some suspension and chassis pics, so i hope you don't mind me buttin' in with my pics and descriptions.

Thanks, JAY

no problem... we expect you to do so!! LOL:cool:

[xsr_racing28c]

Sounds good Chad, I'll have some Pics up this weekend!


Finally i can sit back and enjoy this motor coming together without having to worry about any more parts coming in! :D


~Jay

[xsr_racing28c]

Got some parts in tonite.

Here are my Hardkor Engineering Hubs Mounted on the spindles:

[xsr_racing28c]

Mounted up my new DG Pro Peg Nerfbars that will accomidate my -1 3/8" JB Racing Swingarm...

[xsr_racing28c]

Mmmmm Titanium!!!

Here are my new Titanium Front Springs.
( I'm undecided yet of whether or not I'm gonna use them)

[xsr_racing28c]

Ahh and the imfamous DASA showed up today as well.

This pipe is specifically built for TT racing and seems to be of very nice quality!!!

[czrider263]

I have 2 sets of those hubs they are wonderfull as long as you keep tightening them lol.

[chad502ex]

ok, now on with the teardown..

[chad502ex]

here is xsr_racing28c factory balanced flywheel.

early models of 04 450R din't have many flywheels laser balanced until early 05...


the picture illustrate flywheel balancing kinda like balancing a car tire...

[chad502ex]

here's the 05 450R clutch side and main drive gear, counterbalancer gear/spanner nut, kick starter gear assembly, idler gear, and shift linkage...


MAKE NOTICE OF THE PRESSURE PLATE FOR LATER PICTURES

[chad502ex]

flywheel removed, oil pump drive gear, oil pickup tub removed, cam chain removed, counter balancer removed, cam chain guide removed...

[chad502ex]

now, here is a snap of the crank rubbing the center cases around the bearing outer races,.... this is wear the crank journel feelers rub the center cases when the crank moves lside-to-side....

[chad502ex]

cases split with oil pump removed....

[chad502ex]

this is the old crankshaft that i get to keep for xsr_racing28c core exchange...

he give me the worn out one to store away for later core exchanging.... :D

[chad502ex]

pictured is the right side crank case with crankshaft bearing removed and gasket surface prep'd for assembly...

[chad502ex]

the ol' left side crankcase with crankshaft bearing removed and gasket surfaces prep'd waiting for assembly... :D

[chad502ex]

here is the right crankcase roller bearing all pressed into position for assembly....


we'll talk more on this bearing in the next posts....

[chad502ex]

I've started another thread for peeps to reference so that we can all learn of the HONDA cranks bearing failure recently implemented to help reduce the catastrophic engine failures from occuring...


here what i installed for xsr_racing28c, and documented for others...
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=263590

[chad502ex]

ok, back to the assembly after talking some tangent about HONDAs crank retro kit...


pictured is the left side crankcase with the large radial crankshaft bearing pressed into position for assembling..

[chad502ex]

lets talk some art:

pictured below is a Falicon Blueprinted Supercrankshaft with Falicon Knife rod. This crankshaft was lightened on the chamferred journels inside and outside edges, polished, welded rod base pin to prevent journel flexing under high hp loads, harmonically balanced with new heavy duty knife rod to the Baldwin 14:1 piston pack. The Falicon knife rod is extremely durable and aerodynamic too with its rod edge to 'knife' through the cylinder crankcase pressure to reduced the rods resistance aerodynamically....

Additionally this crankshaft, originally and OEM HONDA crankshaft, was updated to reflect HONDAs answering to the horible 'crank bearing failure'...

[chad502ex]

the circle to the right is installation of the oil pump.... can't forget to re-install that, huh?


also wanted ppl to see the center case gasket restriction that occurs for emissions, or commonly known as crankcase ventilation, where the underside piston blow-by pressure and gasses are vented out this tiny hole through the "T" tube back into the air filter where the unburned gasses are reburt for cleaner healthier atmosperic breathing for our children...


NOTICE HOW THIS HOLE CHANGES SIZE IN THE NEXT POSTS

can't go too big though.... :D

[chad502ex]

and the gasket mod.... perfect size... this is precision cutting not too small not too big, but definitely larger than before :devil:

[chad502ex]

installation of the tranny. check for proper shift drum installation and shift for alignment....

lube with molly and assembly lube tranny bearings for assembly.

[chad502ex]

In addition to the thread covering the HONDA crank bearing mod, here's proof that xsr_racing28c has been updated...


notice the collar around the crankshaft shaft... its the collar between the seal and the crank-shaft.

[chad502ex]

BING-bang-BOOM....


assemble the halves, bolt, install counter balancer, oil pump drive gear, oil pick up tube, cam chain, flywheel, and here we are....

[chad502ex]

i can't tell you how many times i've seen this... a common thing to happen is when the chain gaurd bolt hole thread tap gets stripped or damaged....

xsr_racing28c had some dame so i tapped and heli-coiled him new threads free-of-charge... :D

[chad502ex]

I should also mention that this build included all new gaskets, all new seals, all new updated crank assembly with bearings, including shifter shaft seals, kickstart seals, clutch lever seals, countershaft case seals. cranksbearings seals, new cam chain, new jog, new piston, new DRG SSAR head with new valves, new springs, new Falicon Supercrank, an awesome DRG carb, Dynatek ignition with programmed DRG curves, AND new DRG taper bore carb, plus a new DASA TT full stout exhaust.. many this should be real sweat when we complete stage 2 of this build. hint hint...


anyway on with stage 1 of this build.... :D

[chad502ex]

the kick starter assembly installed, the gear shift linkage installed, the drive gear bolt torque to 80ft#, the countershaft spanner nut torqued to 47ft#, and the clutch basket nut torqued to 80ft#, and the shift sequence verified...

[chad502ex]

REMEMBER THE CLUTCH PRESSURE PLATE I REFERENCE BEFORE?


Wherever possible, i always love going beyond for cutomers.. something that they didn't expect like with SSAR porting and another little bling to compliment xsr_racing's clear clutch cover....


now, she'll spin with shimmer...

[chad502ex]

that's all folks until tommorrow night.... :D

[Nick110]

All I can say is WOW, your really know your stuff and do great work. In a year or two I will need a motor to run with the pros so I will be giving you a call.:D