xsr_racing28c DRG TT build

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
:D Perfect.. Did you get my pm about the Baldwin??

~Jay

yup... pm me the shipping addy you sold the baldwin to..

[Elduner]

sent you a PM.....



When are they going to be available to the general drinking duner public like myself.. lol

My top end is off right now...

And I have a full nitrous bottle I aint affraid to use... lol


4scs is in a couple weeks.. lol

[Kilabanshee]

The Piston looks awesome Chad! It was everything I expected from you. Keep up the good work! Now why don't you just finish up those 30 motors you got stored in your garage, put your quad together, and ride the darn thing.:devil:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by quad_rider
sent you a PM.....



When are they going to be available to the general drinking duner public like myself.. lol

My top end is off right now...

And I have a full nitrous bottle I aint affraid to use... lol


4scs is in a couple weeks.. lol

I have one left in the first batch... will be placing bigger order next round. I wanted to confirm the design before I ordered lots of them... I can check with JE to confirm next batch order since they have all the programming figured out...

:D

[Elduner]

Cool... as long as it dont take as long as it takes to get some of the other super secret power ranger mighty morphin pistons .....


My top end is going to be apart for a couple more weeks. lol

then its off to 4scs...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Kilabanshee
The Piston looks awesome Chad! It was everything I expected from you. Keep up the good work! Now why don't you just finish up those 30 motors you got stored in your garage, put your quad together, and ride the darn thing.:devil:

Yea, that's the plan Brent; right after I position my new flow bench.. ::blah:

[czrider263]

Thanks for leaving me in the dark chad about the piston pictures!!!!!!!1:( :( :(

I thought i would be one of the first to know.


what ever
They still look sweeeeeeet

[ghott]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Yea, that's the plan Brent; right after I position my new flow bench.. ::blah:

You're just coming into all kinds of new toys Chadwick. :eek2:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Thanks for leaving me in the dark chad about the piston pictures!!!!!!!1:( :( :(

I thought i would be one of the first to know.


what ever
They still look sweeeeeeet

Hey czrider, ya know you are my favorite egg.... hehe.

Give me a break, I just got them today.. I want to upload some more pics in a few minutes... check em out!

[czrider263]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Hey czrider, ya know you are my favorite egg.... hehe.

Give me a break, I just got them today.. I want to upload some more pics in a few minutes... check em out!



Its all good:D

But i can't say that about rossier my dad sent him a email and it seems he staill hates us for selling the 06 rossier for the dasa. we were going to give him some business but i think that he just lost it.........

so it looks like a DASA pipe is going onto the 05.


And once again i can't wait to see this piston in action


Now that you have it you can start my 05 build. Because i think you have all the money you need for a while:cool:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Its all good:D

But i can't say that about rossier my dad sent him a email and it seems he staill hates us for selling the 06 rossier for the dasa. we were going to give him some business but i think that he just lost it.........

so it looks like a DASA pipe is going onto the 05.


And once again i can't wait to see this piston in action


Now that you have it you can start my 05 build. Because i think you have all the money you need for a while:cool:

yup, it begins....

[czrider263]

Hey Chad,

Congratulations on the pistons ... they look great!

GK

[eganracing]

how do u think these engines will hold up to that high of compression?


i mean i know on my 440 stretching head studs was an issue so r we gonna see that as an issue on these 450's?


your piston sounds like u put alot of thinking in to the develpoment of it but im just curious if these engines are gonna be able to handle it.


and what kind of numbers r we expecting?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Hey Chad,

Congratulations on the pistons ... they look great!

GK

thanks. Be sure to check these out Dad!


can you see the internal and external bracing in mine compared to the JE shelf piston?

[xsr_racing28c]

Wow there is really a huge difference. That really shows the massive bracing and gusseting to the DRG piston.

BTW: I thought I was your number 1 egg??? LOL

~Jay:(

[chad502ex]

here's an explaination in gentler terms, for a few of the performance features

accumulator groove- helps reduce ring flutter due to trapped gasses between the rings

lateral gas ports are passages that permit pressure to get behind the ring and push it out toward the cylinder wall for tighter ring pressure

anti-detonation groove help reduce side piston to cylinder wall contact causing hot spots and false ignition..

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Wow there is really a huge difference. That really shows the massive bracing and gusseting to the DRG piston.

BTW: I thought I was your number 1 egg??? LOL

~Jay:(

check out the milling done ... this is what took JE soo much time programming cnc.

[chad502ex]

here all the wrist pin lubrication needed for the "pro" pin.

:D

the circled holes are the forced passages to each hole in the wrist pin....

:macho

[chad502ex]

ahh sweatness.. this was in mine.. i'll post another installed

[xsr_racing28c]

I likey ALOT!!!

Thanks for the explanations! Now I can kind of realize why they took so long with machining them.. I do have to say they look great though and I'm very excited to be running one.

~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
I likey ALOT!!!

Thanks for the explanations! Now I can kind of realize why they took so long with machining them.. I do have to say they look great though and I'm very excited to be running one.

~Jay

Your welcome. I'm glad you like it.

JE called me back tonight to ask me what were my thoughts. I said i was happy with this batch. They will only get better too as production continues I'm told.... that's good. JE even mentioned that the new FSR forging is being ran by Factory HONDA race teams- kewl!

[xsr_racing28c]

Hey thats pretty neat! So you think these first ones are gonna be good though.. I mean reliable??

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Hey thats pretty neat! So you think these first ones are gonna be good though.. I mean reliable??

should be reliable as far as I can see...

I think the improving process related to rolling edges and channeling not the strength...

[xsr_racing28c]

Ok i see... well I'm sure it will be just as safe to run as the Baldwin. Plus I'll be making some extra ponies i hope...

can't wait to see it in my cylinder!!!

~Jay

[lumi]

congrats chad.... this piston seems amazing. very high tech with great features.




-lumi :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by lumi
congrats chad.... this piston seems amazing. very high tech with great features.




-lumi :D

thank you for your good words.

[Chino886]

Keep raising the bar Chad!

Nice work!

Jay, no more mods, I can't keep up you as it is! :devil:

Don't make me do the CRG (Chino-RG).......LOL!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Chino886
Keep raising the bar Chad!

Nice work!

Jay, no more mods, I can't keep up you as it is! :devil:

Don't make me do the CRG (Chino-RG).......LOL!

Thanks Chino.

.... you get Jays old cam delivered today?

[Chino886]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Thanks Chino.

.... you get Jays old cam delivered today?

Hope so, gonna tear into it tomorrow!

Nice looking Piston! When is the 06 model going to be available? Available in + valve sizes?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Chino886
Hope so, gonna tear into it tomorrow!

Nice looking Piston! When is the 06 model going to be available? Available in + valve sizes?

I'm already considering expanding the offering for 06/07 years, another 04/05 piston with OEM valves, and another with +1mm ex. for those shooting for top end high hp numbers.... we'll see though.. one step at a time, then cam and a pipe after the dyno.. but honest, my next step is gonna be time on the flow bench.. :D

[MR.BIG]

Nice piston chad! I am going to be calling you in a few weeks so I can drop my motor off.:macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by MR.BIG
Nice piston chad! I am going to be calling you in a few weeks so I can drop my motor off.:macho

Thanks!

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by Chino886
Keep raising the bar Chad!

Nice work!

Jay, no more mods, I can't keep up you as it is! :devil:

Don't make me do the CRG (Chino-RG).......LOL!

I'm going to be taking a break on the 450r seeing as I can't possibly think of anything else to do to it, but as you know the YFZ is torn down and going thru a whole build as we speak.

Oh and btw, since my motor isn't back, I'll be installing all of my TT stuff on the new 06 kicker we got so i can race next sunday. I'll post some picks once we swap it all out..

~Jay

[chad502ex]

:eek2: WOW, I JUST CLAYED IN his new piston on an HRC on mike nash's with plenty plenty P-V clearance....

OH my.... :D

[xsr_racing28c]

keep us posted Chad.. Anxious to see what mine checks out at.. ~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
keep us posted Chad.. Anxious to see what mine checks out at.. ~Jay

kewl, ...

looks like any cam availble will fit this piston. stock valves all the way around no problem either with over .120" P-V clearance. I also clayed in a head using a 208/921 +6* ex dur. and 0.040" decked head with 0.80" clearance.

Jay for your build, no P-V worries ever...

i'll tear down the head and cylinder to machine soon. waiting to fill a basket of parts for my machinist before i drive to him...

[chad502ex]

here's some P-V clearance proof....

[czrider263]

SWEEEEETTTTT

finish his build and don't forget about me lol:D

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by chad502ex
kewl, ...

looks like any cam availble will fit this piston. stock valves all the way around no problem either with over .120" P-V clearance. I also clayed in a head using a 208/921 +6* ex dur. and 0.040" decked head with 0.80" clearance.

Jay for your build, no P-V worries ever...

i'll tear down the head and cylinder to machine soon. waiting to fill a basket of parts for my machinist before i drive to him...

Perfect!! I'm looking forward to seeing more. For now I'm putting all my TT stuff on our 06 and will be running a completely stock machine at the races next weekend. Im sure I'll be floored at the difference from the stock 06 to my motor.. can't wait!

~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Perfect!! I'm looking forward to seeing more. For now I'm putting all my TT stuff on our 06 and will be running a completely stock machine at the races next weekend. Im sure I'll be floored at the difference from the stock 06 to my motor.. can't wait!

~Jay

Sorry Jay the pistons took soo long to manufacture.....

here's my thoughts, rather long winder about my design//

pull up a chair for this rambling... hehe

but before we start I wanted to you, czrider263, and mike nash an update/plan to the progress of your builds:

mike nash's ride is complete, just need to add fluid, chain, shifter lever and start!

tommorow night is xsr_racing28c top end teardown to place his head/jug into the "machining parts basket".

Also tommorrow night I should have czrider263 FCR carb disassembled to include in the machining basket, plus- his honda order should arrive to throw (not literally) his new jug and cylinder for machining too! my DSAR head will also be included in the basket, along with TURBO-530R's 450R head..

the machining for all of these will target 16:1 with plenty of P-V clearances... :macho:

now,... back to your programming..... hehe

Having the piston 3d modeled by undercrowning lightens it up, keeping it close in weight to other generic 'shelf' pistons in weight and still yeilding the benefits of high compression. The 3d undercrowning in every internal and external cavity keeps consistent thicknesses throughout the piston dome forging, even with the deepest cutouts on the market. The tuliped valves puts back some mass loss for compression.

sure, all the piston options in this design costs more to manufacture, but IMO, these options are all worth the money in performance gains when it comes to the heartbeat of your engine investment... I'm not trying to market the piston here, I will let the piston do that for itself, .



So, let's talk about the piston options selected and my reasoning behind the options:

Tulip valve reliefs... as mentioned above, to replace the mass removed for deeper valve reliefs and raise compression... due to the depth of the pockets, high overlap cams make it extremely difficult to fit into shelf pistons without flycutting the pockets deeper... not this piston... the only machining you need is if you wish more compression.

Highest obtainable squish by lengthing piston compression height. Much research has occured to determined the best obtainable squish for maximum velocity to be ~0.035". I'm not gonna say what it is but its as tight as I could get without becoming unsafe when rocking... the squish is tighter than 'shelf' pistons....

Which leads me to the side skirt tuff coating... When the piston rocks, I wanted a "Tuff" skirt coating minimizing skirt wear and a frictional losses. Because of the tighter squish, I didn't want the 'moly' type "SPRAYED coating to wear off, causing more friction, causing more skirt wear, causing more rock; so, million mile tuff skirt was applied instead of the sprayed skirt coatings...

Speaking of piston rock, when the piston rocks, the top corner edge above the first ring landing groove comes in contact with the cylinder wall. This contact causes 'hot spoting' to occur. Hot spoting can cause pre-ignition to occur. My design minimizes the hot spotting by reducing the pistons contact surface area cyclinder wall contact by grooving above the first ring landing. This option is called anti-detonation grooving. Most shelf pistons do not offer this option. In fact, piston rock occurs on each stroke, so if the piston must have proper lubrication in the wrist pin area to prevent the wrist pin from binding. I can't tell you how many times I've removed a generic 'shelf' piston that had the wrist pin bind from improper fit and lack of lubrication during its run cycle. This piston has two bridged force pin lubrication and each piston was Pro pin 'loose fitted' by JE for proper lubrication. Generic shelf pistons are not 'loose fitted' after manufactured before its boxed up.

Speaking of lubrication and referring to the pictures posted earlier in this thread, you should be able to locate the undercrown forged windows for cross cavity lubrication... a must when addition forge gusseting for strength is incorporated....

On the ring landings, each was micro-finished and gas ported (I forgot to mention that the ring landings were micro-finished when I posted specs) for perfect ring fit.... Micro-finishing ring landing make a perfect ring seat. Many shelf pistons don't offer this feature. I choose to use OEM rings, since they are superior ring packs and are readily available through service honda when the time comes for ring changes.. I was considering vertical gas ports, alternating with lateral gas porting and focus vertical porting in squish zones, but JE piston computer modeling suggested that although vertical gas ports are superior in ring cylinder ring sealing, they are not great for longevity builds where carbon deposits eventuallt clog them and/or pull oil up into the compression zone.. oil on top of the piston is bad and causes detonation to occur... So, lateral porting only- still a superior option where shelf pistons this option is not offered...

Accumulator grooves are pretty common, even on shelf pistons, as these grooves reduce ring flutter from the trapped gasses..

hopefully this wasn't too long winded, and everyone got to the end without falling to sleep... LOL.

this is a picture of mike nash's new Pappy' power coated frame with his PHASE 2 DRG upgrade... mike's engine was upgraded to Ferrea SS Hi-Flo intakes, 4 angle valve job, new clutch, my new 15:1 piston, and C&D Dynatek ignition... mike's last setup was 13:1.

[chad502ex]

kinda like this shot,...

valve intake angle intake set to 11*
exhaust valve angle 10*

hav'ta know this we do.... :D

[xsr_racing28c]

IMO that was a very functional post and gave very good reasoning to each mod done to the piston. Thanks for that Chad.

I see Mike Nash's quad is complete, so does this mean we're going to be seeing a dyno graph...? :blah:

~Jay

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
IMO that was a very functional post and gave very good reasoning to each mod done to the piston. Thanks for that Chad.

I see Mike Nash's quad is complete, so does this mean we're going to be seeing a dyno graph...? :blah:

~Jay

we are going to try to get his dyno'd soon, I do not know how soon, as I want to finish your build, czriders build, and my DSAR build before i start testing... may be a while for mike's dyno test....

This is the reason why i posted his build, just to let you know that timing is as scheduled. No matter what, I needed to 'basket' a bin of parts for my machinist and while i'm expecting more parts to be delivered to me tommor, I may as well get done what I can will i'm waiting for shipment.. Pictured of your PHASE 2 will take place tommorow.. thanks for your patience...

[czrider263]

GREAT WRITE UP CHAD!!!!

yeah i can't wait to see what hp this piston makes..im sure it will be awsome.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
GREAT WRITE UP CHAD!!!!

yeah i can't wait to see what hp this piston makes..im sure it will be awsome.

I hope it does... Then, I can take the prototype design and make more...

[chad502ex]

the DRG TWIN has been started with its new piston,... It sounded excellent- needs to be dyno tested and dialed in though.



parts from xsr_racing28c top end like head is off the phase 1 engine build to be machined for Phase 2,.. I'll drop off the parts to the machinist tommorrow night.

today I calculated that with a 0.020" decked head and my piston this build will have 16.22:1 static compression with about 13.4:1 dynamic compression at about 500 feet above sea level...

[honda4life72]

could u pm me a price on your new piston?

[xsr_racing28c]

Sweet! This thing is gonna rip!!! ~Jay

[czrider263]

CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HP THESE NEW GENERATION DRG MOTORS PUT OUT.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HP THESE NEW GENERATION DRG MOTORS PUT OUT.

here's a ride report czrider..



mike nash here on atvriders

mike, updated his entire frame over the holidays and had the frame powdercoated plus the piston upgrade... looks awesome...

anyway,.. back to the ride report....

I am very happy with the performance.

after installation, and with no jet change, I took it for a ride on a 180 main. The first thing I noticed was a somewhat flat top 5th gear WOT pull... The bottom to mid seemed extremely sharp and crisp, but the WOT top was just ok- there but not strong...

so, after going back for a brass swap feeling it was lean, I bumped up to a 190 main...

WOW, what a difference.....

The bottom end pull from start to a full 10sec WOT 5th gear pull was awesome!!!!... kept pulling and pulling until I ran out of runway... I was going to fast, riding red-neck-no-helmet sytle, so I let off the throttle after the full 10sec of WOT 5th gear acceleration was complete and my runway end neared . No bobble, no hesitation, just arm pulling acceleration... maybe, it need more fuel, won't know for sure until i dyno, but I'm very pleased with what I know thus far....


I know A/Fr needs to be performed to know how dialed in an engine is, but looking at this picture you can see header color is now a nice golden brown. My experience with header color on the polished DASA represents close 13:1 as measured on Mobile Dynos dyno. Just happy no lean hot blue.

EDIT: forgot to mention reving......... lightning fast as if we didn't know and expect that on 3d design..

[xsr_racing28c]

AHHHHHHH!! I like what i hear! Sounds like when jetted perfect as all of ours will be with some dyno time, we could have quite the ripper!!

Did you say he noticed a difference between his 13:1 and 15:1 DRG piston? I'm assuming yes, but just wondering what his thoughts were in comparison between the two

~Jay :D :D :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
AHHHHHHH!! I like what i hear! Sounds like when jetted perfect as all of ours will be with some dyno time, we could have quite the ripper!!

Did you say he noticed a difference between his 13:1 and 15:1 DRG piston? I'm assuming yes, but just wondering what his thoughts were in comparison between the two

~Jay :D :D :D

naaa, mike has not rid'n it now with the new piston. He is reading like you.

He want me to dyno it for him, but i won't be able to until i get the other builds complete.. he may have to wait, but he said he is willing.

the ride report is mine... :D

[xsr_racing28c]

OH.. You had me all confused, but now i get it. haha..

Well sounds like its a success!!

~Jay

[czrider263]

Nice that that the pistons seems to pull real hard.....have to get it on a dyno to see the full story and im sure it will rock.

Chad what did i tell you about riding without a helemt lol:devil:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Nice that that the pistons seems to pull real hard.....have to get it on a dyno to see the full story and im sure it will rock.

Chad what did i tell you about riding without a helemt lol:devil:

ahh, but a dyno doesn't tell the full story...

it's just a tool,.... mainly for A/F testing......the tq and hp are calculated from rpm and drum weight... still a calculation....

but the best thing next to blowing the bars off your buddy..

[dober250R]

PM me a price on 1 of these new bad boys.....

[flattrack450]

Everyone reading this forum needs to check the link below...

Update... pics link added 2/14 to link below.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=282255

[eganracing]

so did u ever get your motor back?

[Chino886]

I talked to Jay yesterday, his motor is "home"!

I will not steal his thunder, he will be on soon enough. He has 4 projects going on at the same time right now.

[xsr_racing28c]

I did get the motor back to me yesterday, and it will be saturday when I get to putting it back into the frame and setting the machine up. I will try to give you all some updates as soon as I can. As Chino886 (Dave) said, I've got tons of stuff going at once.

Thanks, Jay:p

[chad502ex]

bump..

[xsr_racing28c]

The motor is installed, and bolted in. I am waiting on the new radiator hoses, and after I get them, I'll finish up bolting up the suspension, and I'll fire it up.

I'm going on vacation for 4 days, and when I get back I'll post pics of the finished product!!

~Jay:)

[chad502ex]

can't wait until i hear your reaction ;)