Ticking/Knocking sound?

[Punk'd]

There is a ticking/knocking sound coming from my engine and im not sure what it is. I installed a Wiseco 11.5:1 Piston a month or so ago. Runs fine, no noticable problems. Im thinking valves or maybe even a loose cam chain?

Any ideas?


Heres the Video/Sound clip...

ALSO: Im not sure if you can hear it or not but some of the knocking is in a pretty random rythem.

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Thanks,
Randy

[ghott]

Is this an "out of normal" ticking sound that the 450 engines make anyway?

Most definitely check your valves and adjust them if they need it.

Also, the last thing you want to happen is for the cam chain to jump. Bad things happen and motors become toasted...

Check your timing and the timing chain. Replace the timing chain if need be. I don't think they're that expensive, and it would add to your peace of mind.

[lumi]

Originally posted by ghott
Is this an "out of normal" ticking sound that the 450 engines make anyway?

Most definitely check your valves and adjust them if they need it.

Also, the last thing you want to happen is for the cam chain to jump. Bad things happen and motors become toasted...

Check your timing and the timing chain. Replace the timing chain if need be. I don't think they're that expensive, and it would add to your peace of mind.


yup hes right, open the valve cover check the timing, check the valve clerances, make sure everything is tight, and check the timing chain slack, sometimes the cam sporcket gets loose aswell.


how many hours on the engine?




-lumi

[Coolidge]

Those piston skirts are real short too. Could be piston slap? Is it same hot/cold?

[Punk'd]

Sometimes I notice its not as loud but its always there. I have a 04 but im not sure on the miles.

Im trying to post that video, but my yahoo.com wont open up.. Freakin spyware.. Ill get it up asap though.

[watts16]

I bet ints your valves... have you checked them since you put the new piston in?

my valves do it :(

[ghott]

I believe you are supposed to check valves every 20-30 hours fellas :)

ive got over 300 but just cant talk myself into knocking down the $70 for the shim kit...

oopsie :blah: lol

[Punk'd]

I've never once messed with my valves since i've bought it:o

<----Check my first post for the vid/sound clip---->

[ghott]

I think I will put my money on valve adjustment :) Not 100% sure tho :D

[trick250r]

Originally posted by ghott
I think I will put my money on valve adjustment :) Not 100% sure tho :D

im goin with the valves as well

[GPracer2500]

Valve train noise usually is in direct time with the rpms. A tick/knock that has an irregular rhythm could be something else.

Did you rebuild with OEM gaskets?
What fuel are you using?
Is the sound present all the time, even at idle?
Is the sound load dependent?
What was the condition of your cylinder when you rebuilt? Did you have it measured?

Diffinetly check the timing and the valve clearences. You did check them when you put it back together, right?

You might consider getting a mechanics stethescope (available at any auto parts store) to try and pinpoint where in the engine the sound is coming from.

[lumi]

sounds like a timing chain, guide , or sprocket. but 300 hours is alot without checking time not even once. especially if u have mods on your quad. open her up nothing we can do threw the web except to guide and give u info.






-lumi

[HAVOK]

In the video the oil level should be low when the motor is running your's is not low. Can you see your oil getting pumped threw the sight glass?

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Valve train noise usually is in direct time with the rpms. A tick/knock that has an irregular rhythm could be something else.

Did you rebuild with OEM gaskets?
What fuel are you using?
Is the sound present all the time, even at idle?
Is the sound load dependent?
What was the condition of your cylinder when you rebuilt? Did you have it measured?

Diffinetly check the timing and the valve clearences. You did check them when you put it back together, right?You might consider getting a mechanics stethescope (available at any auto parts store) to try and pinpoint where in the engine the sound is coming from.

I bought all new gaskets, I run 93 octane.

The sound is always there just sometimes louder and sometimes softer.

Yes, its present at idle.

Cylinder was perfect. Honed it and everything.

And no I didnt check the valve clearences.. DOH I did check the timing 1000 times, it SHOULD be dead on.

Im going to be breaking it down here soon. Ill fill you guys in with up to date info to see what you all think.

Thanks for all the help and info.

[Punk'd]

Ok, I measured the clearences.. The exhaust is .010 and .011, I believe those are to spec, but the intake I cant even put the smallest feeler in between?

Any reccomendations.. Im new to this.

[rebelbuggy]

I feel your pain, my 4 wheeler was dead when i got it, had to get new piston and get it bored out and all and put back together and it has ticked since then. i have no clue really other then I belive its my rockers I need new ones.

but i am used to the ticking now

[lumi]

i dont think a tight clearance will result in a ticking sound its usally when you have too much of a clearance. how does the sprocket and chain look ,tight? but try to throw a smaller shim in there and see what happens, gotta get to work i will explain how the process works when i get to work. good luck





-lumi

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by Punk'd
Ok, I measured the clearences.. The exhaust is .010 and .011, I believe those are to spec, but the intake I cant even put the smallest feeler in between?

Any reccomendations.. Im new to this.

Intake specs are .006" +/- .001"
Exahust specs are .011" +/- .001"

So, exhuasts seem fine but intakes at zero clearence is bad. Hopefully the shims in there now aren't already on the small side.

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by lumi
i dont think a tight clearance will result in a ticking sound its usally when you have too much of a clearance.

Man im toally stumped then:confused:

[lumi]

ok so u said one of the intakes or both are so tight that u cannot fit the feller gauge in it right? next step would be to take the cam holder off and check the numbers on the intake shims? tell us what they are. did everything seem tight under there. decomp. arm, timing chain? sprocket bolts? so we can mark those off.





-lumi

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by lumi
ok so u said one of the intakes or both are so tight that u cannot fit the feller gauge in it right? next step would be to take the cam holder off and check the numbers on the intake shims? tell us what they are. did everything seem tight under there. decomp. arm, timing chain? sprocket bolts? so we can mark those off.





-lumi


Both intakes are tight.. Everythings tight.. sprocket, chain..etc

Hmm Ill check the shims the next chance I get. I havent messed with them since I got the bike so its w/e they come stock I guess?

[lumi]

very wierd how a ticking noise can be coming from a low tolerance valve clearances and how the intakes are tighter than the exhaust. usually the exhaust get tighter. well nothing i can tell u after this point. take the cam holder and take those intake shims out. if you unsure how to do this ask i can get a great tutortial on it.






-lumi

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by lumi
very wierd how a ticking noise can be coming from a low tolerance valve clearances and how the intakes are tighter than the exhaust. usually the exhaust get tighter. well nothing i can tell u after this point. take the cam holder and take those intake shims out. if you unsure how to do this ask i can get a great tutortial on it.






-lumi

Do you think its something to worry about? Ill get back to you on those shim sizes sometime later this week. Prolly friday.

[ghott]

Keeping your valves adjusted to the correct specs is very important. Over time, the wear and tear on unadjusted valves could prove to be "fatal" to your engine.

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by ghott
Keeping your valves adjusted to the correct specs is very important. Over time, the wear and tear on unadjusted valves could prove to be "fatal" to your engine.

Oh yeah, deff.. I know this, but I was wondering what the ticking noise could be if its not the valves and if it was something to worry about. I dont notice any power loss :confused:


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[Shift_450R]

mine did that too, turns out a few cogs on my crank gear sheared off. thats another thing to look into

[HAVOK]

Was the oil getting pumped ? In the video it does not look like it is . How is the rocker arm bearings? Mine had a tick up top and I had to get my HRC cam ,rocker arm and bearings replaced.

[Punk'd]

The oil is getting pumped, In the video its just hard to see.

I think my cam chain tensioner is all the way out. Is there a way you can tell if it is or not? Im thinking its the cam chain slapping around since the noise is not always there in a rythem.

Possible?

[HAVOK]

This is what I fallowed when I first did mine

19) Cam Chain Tensioner…there are different thoughts on removal of this. Here is what I did and I found it very simple. Take the end bolt out of the tensioner and insert a small flat head screwdriver. Turn the screwdriver clockwise until it stops. All of the tension should be removed from the chain and you can slide the sprocket off. Do not let go of the screwdriver! Ease it back turn by turn until it is free…it is spring loaded.


***Insert flat head and turn clockwise to release tension***


http://www.rockinhorseweb.com/450r_how_to_guides.htm

[lumi]

pretty much turn it clockwise to wind it back and turn counter clockwise to release it.





-lumi

[Punk'd]

Oh I know how to do that, I was just wondering if my chain streched or something to that effect and is slapping around in there because its loose.

Im wondering if the chain tensioner is all the way out and cant tighten the chain anymore.

Maybe this is the knocking noise I hear?

[lumi]

that was one of my thoughts but just wanted to check everything else out before you got a new chain. after a couple hundred hours i was told its good to get a new timing chain and i dont think that there that expensive. but shim everything to spec in your motor. and start from there again. i doubt the ticking is coming from the rockers, from that sounds i hought maybe a sprocket came loose, chain , or bearing.






-lumi

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by lumi
that was one of my thoughts but just wanted to check everything else out before you got a new chain. after a couple hundred hours i was told its good to get a new timing chain and i dont think that there that expensive. but shim everything to spec in your motor. and start from there again. i doubt the ticking is coming from the rockers, from that sounds i hought maybe a sprocket came loose, chain , or bearing.






-lumi

Thanks a ton, ill let you know on the outcome if It fixed it or not..:)

and BTW a cam chain is around 20-30 bucks I believe.

[Shift_450R]

dude the same thing was goin on with my quad and it turned out to be this. In the picture below thats my crank gear. It sheared off two teeth and the sound was coming from the chain. Id seriously look into it man

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/kwiatkowski/Picture008.jpg


heres the noise my 400 was making when that happend....sounds pretty similar
http://media.putfile.com/400EX-noise

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by Shift_450R
dude the same thing was goin on with my quad and it turned out to be this. In the picture below thats my crank gear. It sheared off two teeth and the sound was coming from the chain. Id seriously look into it man

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/kwiatkowski/Picture008.jpg


heres the noise my 400 was making when that happend....sounds pretty similar
http://media.putfile.com/400EX-noise

WOW deff not good.. Ill look into that when I switch chains.

Thanks for the heads up bro

[lumi]

yea its sounds similar. well have to wait for the verdict.






-lumi

[450rXtreme]

Running the valvetrain out of spec. is definately not good, worst case running tight putting alot of extra stress/load on timing chain sprockets, cam berings, cam itself, etc.etc. and other vital parts. Doing so WILL result in a component failure sooner rather than later(R.I.P. my new Chevy 350 cam :-( ) Also sounds like your engine has a definate miss at the same time as the ticking noise. I myself would do a complete teardown ASAP before any other parts are damaged.

[sonmtn]

Punk'd did you ever come up with what the noise was? thanks