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brad7131
09-16-2006, 07:16 AM
I'm new to banshee's, but am looking forward to possibly getting one. I'd like to make it a good all-around quad, with imphasis on MX, as I will be riding on the track most of the time. I like being different, which is why I dont want a 450, but I know pretty much nothing on how to modify banshee's so that they'll rip on the track. What would be some good ideas as to what I should do, while still sort of keeping costs down, that would make me competive on the track? I wont be racing, just riding, but I wanna be able to keep with, or beat, the guys on 450's. I plan on suspension, some engine work, some asthetics, and wheels and tires. Any suggestions? BTW, I'd like to keep it under $6k in mods, if possible.

beastlyone
09-16-2006, 01:50 PM
send shocks to derisi and get them rebuilt and 421 cheetah stroker kit, bore out the carbs a little, some toomey t-5 pipes, wider rear axle, some maxxis razor 2's all around, mx port and polish, and a longer swingarm of your choice id say +2, and some v-force 3 reeds with a 250r reed cage. This is just a setup i thought up off the top of my head dude, but that sounds like it would be a screaaamer if you did it

Mxjunkie
09-16-2006, 04:08 PM
a 421 would be WAY to much for a mx track, my 409 is a handfull and a half!

I'd just go with a stock bore with a chitload of porting and a coolhead for mx

More handling then power banshee's have enough as it is..

brad7131
09-16-2006, 07:31 PM
I was thinking the same thing as whoever posted above me. It's not that it would be too much power, but that I want a really reliable bike, and am more worried about handling than power. I plan on working on the suspension first, then adding power as I feel fit. I'll probably bore it to 350, cool heads, mx port, toomey's, LT a-arms, swinger, elka or axis (havent decided), steering stem, bumper, nerfs, grab bar, chassis skid, powdercoat frame and other misc. parts, faast bars, hiper's, razr's, and then some other stuff that just isnt popping into my head. I dont really need help with the suspension set-up, I need more help as far as the drivetrain goes, as I dont have any experience with 'shees.

banshee84
09-16-2006, 09:18 PM
+2+1 a-arms with some shocks, -2 swingarm with a new shock, and a +4" axle. Then once you have that you should be able to whoop the 450s the -2 swing arm will be like adding a lot more h.p because it will hook up great. But you can always get a single carb kit and a 2 into 1 pipe if you really want to embarress them

broke
09-17-2006, 06:04 AM
+2+1 a-arms with some shocks, -2 swingarm with a new shock, and a +4" axle. Then once you have that you should be able to whoop the 450s the -2 swing arm will be like adding a lot more h.p because it will hook up great. But you can always get a single carb kit and a 2 into 1 pipe if you really want to embarress them

That is probably the closest I've heard yet. The single carbs are OK, I still prefer a small set of duals, 28-30mm. Scrap the 2:1 pipe and get a set of PTR mids, they pull just about right off idle, smooth hit and they still rev quite well for long straights.

As far as handling goes, buy a set of Blaster pegs off Ebay. Cut off all the break crap and bolt them on. They will move the pegs back and down around 2".

Toadz400
09-20-2006, 11:17 PM
Take this post over to BansheeHQ, I believe I've seen some pretty insane MX Banshee's over there. They'll let you know exactly what you need.

speeddemon105
10-05-2006, 10:12 PM
IMO, the best motor setup would be something along the lines of T5s with a MX port. Its not that you want low end power, you want a wide and smooth powerband. If you think you need low end, then you aren't riding a 2 stroke right.

Or a set of cheetah cylinders works good too.

As far as the chassis setup, a 250r style frame is the way to go, but that costs a bunch. Other than that, shorter swingarm, +2+1 a-arms, and shocks all the way around.

banchee dave
10-23-2006, 06:42 PM
i may be a little late on this but on my shee i have +2+1 a-arms, fox float shocks, stock swinger with stock rear shock and no preload. I have minor motor work that includes a cool head with 19 cc domes weisco high compression pistons with no lower end work other than a billet clutch basket and barnett clutches. a wider axle with a total width of 50 inches. it over turns but thats becouse the stem stops are worn out. it handles great and personlly woundn't change to a longer or shorter swinger but would swap it out for an aftermarket one. it handles turns and whoops and jumps like it is on rails. thats my 2 cents.

Toadz400
10-24-2006, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by banchee dave
i may be a little late on this but on my shee i have +2+1 a-arms, fox float shocks, stock swinger with stock rear shock and no preload. I have minor motor work that includes a cool head with 19 cc domes weisco high compression pistons with no lower end work other than a billet clutch basket and barnett clutches. a wider axle with a total width of 50 inches. it over turns but thats becouse the stem stops are worn out. it handles great and personlly woundn't change to a longer or shorter swinger but would swap it out for an aftermarket one. it handles turns and whoops and jumps like it is on rails. thats my 2 cents.

No offense, but ride your Banshee on a track and then get off and ride a 250R, 400EX, 450R, LTR, or YFZ on the same track and you'll see why there aren't many Banshee MXer's. In order to get a Banshee that really does handle like it's on rails you would need to get a different frame with the 250R geometry.

banchee dave
10-24-2006, 02:01 PM
don't take this the wrong way, but I have ridden a 400ex, 250r, 300ex, 450r, raptor 660 but not an ltr450 or yfz450. I know all about the geomitry problems assosiated with the banshee compared to the other quads. the only quad i rode with an up-graded suspension was the 250r two of my friends own and they are ok, but to light in the frontend for me. you have to be a real good rider to handle a stock framed banshee on a track or even in the trails. I don't ride tracks frankly because I never have been on one before. But I do ride the woods and only one of my friends can stay with me because he is as crazy as I am. If you ever rode in the trails at Mio Michigan you know how bad they are. I ride them as fast as I can and I am usually pegging fifth gear. I know my quad and it handles great. Everyone has their own opinions on which quad is better for what and the banshee is not known for just strait line racing. mine does crap for strait line racing and thats because I didn't set it up that way.

Toadz400
10-25-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by banchee dave
don't take this the wrong way, but I have ridden a 400ex, 250r, 300ex, 450r, raptor 660 but not an ltr450 or yfz450. I know all about the geomitry problems assosiated with the banshee compared to the other quads. the only quad i rode with an up-graded suspension was the 250r two of my friends own and they are ok, but to light in the frontend for me. you have to be a real good rider to handle a stock framed banshee on a track or even in the trails. I don't ride tracks frankly because I never have been on one before. But I do ride the woods and only one of my friends can stay with me because he is as crazy as I am. If you ever rode in the trails at Mio Michigan you know how bad they are. I ride them as fast as I can and I am usually pegging fifth gear. I know my quad and it handles great. Everyone has their own opinions on which quad is better for what and the banshee is not known for just strait line racing. mine does crap for strait line racing and thats because I didn't set it up that way.

Oh I thought you were talking about riding on a track when you mentioned whoops. I know I prefer my Banshee in the trails compared to my YFZ or 400EX as I feel I am a lot faster on it, but if I'm going anywhere near a track I'd definately take anything over it, even if it was set up for it. The Banshee just is not made for MX unless the frame is modified.

Dinner
10-25-2006, 01:16 PM
You can have a very nice MX Banshee, if you want it that way. Another good thing for you to do is lighten the flywheel and get an adjustable timing plate, cheap easy power. A few guys running MX get -1, -2 swingers to keep the traction under them, but it all depends how much power you are putting out.

Toadz400
10-25-2006, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Dinner
You can have a very nice MX Banshee, if you want it that way. Another good thing for you to do is lighten the flywheel and get an adjustable timing plate, cheap easy power. A few guys running MX get -1, -2 swingers to keep the traction under them, but it all depends how much power you are putting out.

I think a lightened flywheel is not what you want on a Banshee. You really want a smooth engine and having a lighter flywheel will make it that much more aggressive in how the power hits. If you are doing MX a -1 or -2 swingarm, +4 axle and +2+1 or +3+1 a-arms are a MUST.

bansheexcracer2
10-26-2006, 01:00 PM
You want a heavyer fly wheel to make the power smother and to resist stalling in tight corners.

mic 902
10-27-2006, 05:17 AM
OK this might sound a bit stupid BUT. get a 410 kit. NO stroker kit just standar stroke. When tuned properly this is the PERFECT shee MX engine. I ride with a guy who has it and this quad can go anywhere. Nothing can catch it but its not that hard to ride.
Its got the typical Shee power snap off the bottom but keeps on pulling all the way through the revs. Its got lonestar +3 long-travel a arms with TCS shocks. Super nice quad to ride.

eastexasbanshee
10-27-2006, 12:38 PM
If you plan on doing ANY motor work, you might as well get a 350 cub, that is going to give you a wide powerband and PLENTY of power to do what ever kind of riding you want. The great thing about a 350 cub is you can bolt it on and go. Use stock head, crank and reeds, just need some rejeting. Another great thing about the cub is it is easy to upgrade if you wanted more power. The cub is the cheapest easiest way to make power. You can get them just about anywhere for around 800-900 bucks.

Toadz400
10-27-2006, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by eastexasbanshee
If you plan on doing ANY motor work, you might as well get a 350 cub, that is going to give you a wide powerband and PLENTY of power to do what ever kind of riding you want. The great thing about a 350 cub is you can bolt it on and go. Use stock head, crank and reeds, just need some rejeting. Another great thing about the cub is it is easy to upgrade if you wanted more power. The cub is the cheapest easiest way to make power. You can get them just about anywhere for around 800-900 bucks.

Exactly. For MX or XC racing a 2-stroke you definately want to have the smoothest hitting powerband. A powervalve is definately the way to go for any 2-stroke that you plan on racing.

broke
10-27-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Toadz400
Exactly. For MX or XC racing a 2-stroke you definately want to have the smoothest hitting powerband. A powervalve is definately the way to go for any 2-stroke that you plan on racing.

That's all well and good, but the Cub doesn't have powervalves. Nor would it make a good MX motor. That's got what, around 200 degrees of exhaust duration? What do you need your head cut to, to even salvage a little bit of bottom end. If you really want a grunt motor, check into a set of RZ jugs then throw a little bit of stroke at it, mean motor with an insanely broad powerband.

eastexasbanshee
10-27-2006, 10:29 PM
correctly set up the cub has a nice smooth powerband. Thats why I said that a 350 cub would be the best bang for the buck. Although a powervalve motor would probley work very good, but most all powervalve motors cost quite a bit more than the cub. And I think you are right about the duration, seems like I have seen them anywhere from 190 to 202 or so.

Toadz400
10-27-2006, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by broke
That's all well and good, but the Cub doesn't have powervalves. Nor would it make a good MX motor. That's got what, around 200 degrees of exhaust duration? What do you need your head cut to, to even salvage a little bit of bottom end. If you really want a grunt motor, check into a set of RZ jugs then throw a little bit of stroke at it, mean motor with an insanely broad powerband.

Oh my bad, I must've been thinking about the Cheetah cylinders from Trinity.

TWILES
11-06-2006, 05:38 PM
I didn't really have a whole lot done to my Banshee and it would do anything I needed it to do on a track. The motor itself had been bored to 20 over with Wiseco pistons. I had Toomey T5 pipes and Toomey airfilter ( no airbox ), and the Dyno Jet jet and needle kit for that set-up. If I had known a little more about building Banshee's at the time I would have invested in RZ powervalve cylinders and wiring. I was told by a guy who is now paralized who used to race Banshee's that the motor was best left stock and that a set of pipes and balls were all you needed. I did what he said and after a couple of months learing the motor I decided he was right. I had been riding and racing 2-strokes for a few years before though. The main thing with a Banshee is getting a GOOD front-end. HSD Racing built mine and I'd highly recemend it. It is his Symmetry Banshee long travel set up. It uses 16 and 1/2 inch shocks and 4+1 wheels. Laeger also makes a good front-end. Shocks are another big one. Buy a GOOD set. As for the motor, you could stand more compression but until I was extremely comfortable on the bike thats all I would do. The 2-stroke days are over. I would spend a lot of money if I was planning on ever selling it.

loboboy
11-16-2006, 07:50 PM
Broke has some really good points. I would go with a 7MM stroke stock cylinder MX ported motor. I have ridden LRD's MX porting and I now have NMotions porting. If you want to know which one I like better you will have to PM me for that info. They both do great port work so I won't post for the public eye which one i like better since I like each one for different things.

No matter what you do make sure you throw some extra stroke into it. Then if your budget allows do like Broke and I and get a frame with 250R geometry and you will have a 450 killer in the right persons hands.

jimanold22
11-17-2006, 12:14 AM
Whats up loboboy?I keep running into you.I'm still learning about the banshee engine,but IMO a stock bore with a longer stroke will definately tame the banshee motor's erraticness.A powervalve will do wonders as well if you can afford a powervalved equipped cylinder.As we all know the banshee's largest problem is getting it to hook up not power output.Being 2 cylinders and having short stroke/large bore = Fast revving erratic,tirebraking power that we love about it is not good for traction when it counts as in MX.Another thing I c everyone talking about port this port that.If your not skilled enough to keep the engine in it's powerband you'll actually be slower.

Loboboy your bike a 7mm stroker with stock bore?Does that work with stock cylinders?What does that come out to be in cc's?

BTW what companys make banshee powervalves cylinders?

banshee84
11-17-2006, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by jimanold22
Whats up loboboy?I keep running into you.I'm still learning about the banshee engine,but IMO a stock bore with a longer stroke will definately tame the banshee motor's erraticness.A powervalve will do wonders as well if you can afford a powervalved equipped cylinder.As we all know the banshee's largest problem is getting it to hook up not power output.Being 2 cylinders and having short stroke/large bore = Fast revving erratic,tirebraking power that we love about it is not good for traction when it counts as in MX.Another thing I c everyone talking about port this port that.If your not skilled enough to keep the engine in it's powerband you'll actually be slower.

Loboboy your bike a 7mm stroker with stock bore?Does that work with stock cylinders?What does that come out to be in cc's?

BTW what companys make banshee powervalves cylinders?

A -2 swinger will fix that traction problem :D

loboboy
11-17-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by jimanold22
Whats up loboboy?I keep running into you.I'm still learning about the banshee engine,but IMO a stock bore with a longer stroke will definately tame the banshee motor's erraticness.A powervalve will do wonders as well if you can afford a powervalved equipped cylinder.As we all know the banshee's largest problem is getting it to hook up not power output.Being 2 cylinders and having short stroke/large bore = Fast revving erratic,tirebraking power that we love about it is not good for traction when it counts as in MX.Another thing I c everyone talking about port this port that.If your not skilled enough to keep the engine in it's powerband you'll actually be slower.

Loboboy your bike a 7mm stroker with stock bore?Does that work with stock cylinders?What does that come out to be in cc's?

BTW what companys make banshee powervalves cylinders?

To counter the quick revving and erratic power delivery the port timing has to be changed to somewhat control it. My cylinders were done with actually using blaster pistons and sleeves in the cylinders. they installed the sleeves roughly .100" out the top of the cylinder and made a spacer plate to take up the extra sleeve sticking out. This gives the stock cylinders a 0 deck height. so no special domes to cut for the head.

Now to help with Traction problems, since the motor pulls so hard off bottom I usually run 16-39 gearing with 18" MX tires and 15-39 with my paddles. With the taller gearing it controls the power hit and smoothes things out. I know it sounds weird and I don't fully understand the theory behind it but after trying different gearing I will vouch for this by experience.

My chassis uses all 250R geometry suspension and what i have for Swingarm length is a 88-89 stock length swingarm, which really is -1 compared to everything else. The most important part of helping traction is your suspension, if it is too stiff or too soft this will play a major part on your traction issues, along with tire pressure and throttle control.

To answer your questions about cylinders and powervalves there are one and only one I would buy. The Trinity cheetah Cylinders with power valves. Although the Cheetah Cylinders are knowon for their top end HP they can be made into some really nice MX motors as well.

What I want to try (just don't have the money) is get a 10MM stroke 72MM bore Cheetah cylinder and deck off the bottom of the cylinder to match a 7MM stroke crank. This will lower the port imting to where I can port the cylinders to the timing I want and make a tractor out of it. Myself and NMotion have talked about this for a while just have not tried it yet, but from their calculations we could concievably achieve roughly 70HP and over 50FT/LB of torque and then tune to your liking and have a 4stroke eater.

I could go on and on but those are my opinions learned from experience.

loboboy
11-17-2006, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by jimanold22
Another thing I c everyone talking about port this port that.If your not skilled enough to keep the engine in it's powerband you'll actually be slower.

What porting can do if it is done correctly is make the power band more useable and you will also have a wider power band to use. So keeep it in the power band is not nearly as difficult. I never use my clutch in the corners I just throttle it up and away I go, and i wiegh close to 300lbs. It all depends on your port job and carb tuning.

I just recently spent almost 3 months doing nothing but trial and error with my jetting to get it just right. I first spent 3 hrs on the dyno and got it where it was as perfect as a 2-stroke dyno map can look like IMO, then i spent the rest of the time on the track.
Concentrating on how the motor pulled off the corners from a very low RPM. I did this in cool weather, extremely hot weather and then very cold weather, and it has finally paid off. I wrote down all of the final settings for each condition and now no matter where I go I can jet it perfect to my taste in a matter of minutes. I can't stress enough about jetting, It will make or break your riding experience.

Oh and i run 35MM AirStyker PWK carbs and open filters. Dyna Ignition with around 8 degrees of total timing.

jimanold22
11-17-2006, 11:11 AM
Damn blaster cylinders and pistons?Who would of thought?Yeah I know what you mean about port timing.Although I don't know a whole lot about it.I have a banshee trans with a 4mm stroker bottom end with a spacer plate.I'm thinking of useing RZ power valved cylinders.You have ingenious idea's on making a good mx motor outta it?

Toadz400
11-17-2006, 12:39 PM
You've got some good ideas there loboboy, you should make a write-up of all your thoughts on how to improve the Banshee engine and your experiences with it. You are absolutely right about the jetting making or breaking your riding especially with a 2-stroke.

I've just discovered there is a shop with a dyno that just moved in not even 20 minutes from me so I'm thinking this winter I'll have to save up $300 to get a starting point for perfect jetting.

loboboy
11-17-2006, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by jimanold22
Damn blaster cylinders and pistons?Who would of thought?Yeah I know what you mean about port timing.Although I don't know a whole lot about it.I have a banshee trans with a 4mm stroker bottom end with a spacer plate.I'm thinking of useing RZ power valved cylinders.You have ingenious idea's on making a good mx motor outta it?

I don't have any experience with the RZ powervalve cylinders but from what i have heard they work really well if the right person ports them. I think Broke has this motor combo in his bike and absolutely loves it. If he sees this post I am sure he will chime in. if I was in your shoes I don't know which way I would go, like i said before I want to try the Cheetah 10MM Cylinder project, but I just don't have the money to throw at a 2000.00 setup for R&D. Someday I may take the plunge but right now I will live with my stock cylinders with blaster pistons in it. LOL

I can't complain very much, it still puts 85 to the wheels and has gobbs of bottom to pull off the corners like a freight train.

My ultimate goal is less peak HP and more torque. I will keep you all updated and if I decide to do the 10MM Cheetah project I will definitely post up a complete write up about it. Because if it works like we think it will NMotion will start offering this package for sure.

brian250racer
11-19-2006, 06:34 PM
I ran Blaster pistons in my motor back in '98....Apparently it's come along a bit since then..:(

brad7131
12-10-2006, 12:44 PM
Okay guys, sorry to bring up an old thread, but I had another question.

I was looking at Elka shocks and long travel a-arms and other suspension stuff on worldwideperformance1.com, and they don't seem to carry long travel shocks for the Banshee, yet they carry Eyeball Engineering Long Travel a-arms for the 'Shee. What's the deal? How much of a difference in travel length between LT and regular? Could I settle with regular and not really have to worry about bottoming too much as long as I'm careful and don't go too big? Staying with regular travel sure would save me alot of money, but I am willing to spend the extra cash for LT if need be. Any advice?

Toadz400
12-11-2006, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by brad7131
How much of a difference in travel length between LT and regular? Could I settle with regular and not really have to worry about bottoming too much as long as I'm careful and don't go too big? Staying with regular travel sure would save me alot of money, but I am willing to spend the extra cash for LT if need be. Any advice?

There's not that big of a difference between long travel and standard travel. Most professional suspension builders can get you the same amount of travel out of standard travel shocks than you could with a set of long travel. There's a big controversy over it so basically it comes down to how much you are really willing to spend on this sport.

brad7131
12-11-2006, 02:51 PM
Well, I'd like to spend as little as humanly possible, and still be happy with the outcome, and not really wish for more, if you know what I mean. I'm willing to spend the extra dough on the expensive stuff if it will make a difference, but if it isn't even really noticeable then I'm not gonna bother.. it'll be mid-summer or so 'til I get anything, so I've still got a while to think about it haha

shano
12-11-2006, 05:13 PM
Thing about long travel is the stroke is longer, so valving would be better suited to your type of riding. Standard travel shocks on longtravel a-arms is not a good idea at all, even if valved very stiff, still wont sit right or ride good. Either go with long travel shocks and a-arms, or go with +3 a-arms with standard travel. Dish out abit more money and have abit more travel and better valving capabilities, or just be a very smooth rider and work with the standards.. your choice:D

iamjasyn
12-12-2006, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by TWILES
The 2-stroke days are over. I would spend a lot of money if I was planning on ever selling it.
Not for everyone, homie.