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View Full Version : Adjusting the Valves on the Predator



wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:23 AM
alright so heres the deal. the Predator is a DOHC liquid cooled engine that uses shim and buckets to set valve clearances. if your clearances are too tight or too loose your performance will suffer.

adjusting the valves is NOT as hard as some may think. i will do my best to walk y'all through it. i would also like to thank preddy08, polarisbob, THE_PREDATOR, and the rest of the predatorowners crew for helping me out. also check out preddy08's walkthrough on www.predatorowners.com i am basing my write up on his.


so first step, clean your quad! make sure areas around the engine are pretty good looking. now, make sure you have a good work area for you quad. next, i would highly reccomend a table to set parts on as you will be removing alot of items.

next, remove the gas tank, front fenders, and exhaust system. i reccomend using paper bags to place the specific nuts and bolts in so when you put your quad back together, it will be easier to find everything. label these bas as well.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:32 AM
the gas tank has a half inch bolt with washer that holds it to the frame, and all the frame mounts are held with a hex head.




ok, if you are sitting on the quad, on the left (stator) side of the motor, there will be two timing plugs. the top one is a 6mm hex head and the lower one is a 10mm. remove both of them.


NOTE= the following view is NOT a good example of what your quad should look like when you do this. make sure she's clean;)

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:37 AM
with the timing plugs removed, you are now going to set you engine at TDC. to do this. take a ratchet with a small extension and a 19mm socket and put that on the lower nut (where the 10mm plug came off of. you will turn that a hair either clockwise or counterclockwise until you see the "T" lined up in the upper area where the 6mm plug came off.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:38 AM
The "T" should line up perfectly with the small notch. heres what you are looking for:

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:40 AM
ok, so your motor SHOULD (key word) be at TDC. now you can remove the head bolts. they are 8mm bolts. remove them in a criss cross pattern and set them aside.

now the top of you head should lift off. there is a gasket around it. remove that as well, but be carefull not to "yank" to hard on it and tear it. set both of those items aside on your work table.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:45 AM
heres what you should be lookin at:

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:51 AM
ok, go to the right side of the quad and bend down a bit (that doesnt sound too good, but just stay with me here), lol, you should see small "timing" marks on the cams. on the left cam (intake cam) you should see a mark at 9 oclock and 12 oclock. on the right (exhaust cam) cam you should see a mark one tooth different from the intake.

heres a picture taken by preddy08 from predatorowners.com:

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:54 AM
keep those marks in mind for when you are re-assembling your quad. ok, now you are going to need to get a feeler gauge from around .002" to say .020" a feeler gauge consists of strips of metal that are different thicknesses. they measure the clearances of the valves and are your key to gettin your machine runnin properly.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:56 AM
ideally you want your intake sides to be .006" and your exhaust to be .010" slide the feeler gauge under the lobes of the cams from the inside out. its easier to show you with a picture.

here i am measuring the clearance of the exhaust side.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 09:57 AM
intake feeler gauge going in:

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:02 AM
now, this sounds a little lame, but when putting the feeler gauge in, you need to make sure not to do to much "wiggle waggling" back and forth. you should put the feeler gauge right up the lobe and push firmly, and it should go in some what firmly. if you have to muscle it back and forth that means it is TOO TIGHT. dont try to force anything either. like i said, it should go in firm, and come out firm.


also, check the clearances from the other two bucket-n-shim areas in order to get an accurate reading from both parts of the cam. RECORD your measurings.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:10 AM
ok, so chances are things are out of wack. this is where i usually seek the help of slave labor:devil: just kidding. bought seriousely, grab a buddy, this will make things easier.

you will need to loosen the cam tensioner. located on the right side of the quad near where the header raps around. pop the 10mm bolt off (it is really shallow) and set it with your parts. you will need to take a screw driver (i believe a 1/8) and stick it in the slot until it "catches". now, have your buddy turn the screwdrive to the RIGHT until it can be turned no more. either use a vice grip to hold the tension or just have your friend sit there and hold it. this takes the tension off of the cam chain so you can remove it. picture taken by preddy08 from www.predatorowners.com

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:12 AM
heres some common screw driver sizes. i used the one on the far right which, as mentioned before, i believe is a 1/8 (my memory is startin to **** out on me, lol:D )

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:15 AM
ok now take the cam stay off (metal piece holding the cams). it is held down with 8 8mm bolts. (use CAUTION when reinstalling these because they are cheap bolts that like to break!!)

now, when taking the cover off, DO NOT just yank and go. wiggle it slightly to get her loose because there are little C-clips that sit on the cam and if they fly off you got some problems. you will then most likely spend the rest of your day with a magnent lookin for em. again, this picture is from preddy08 on www.predatorowners.com

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:21 AM
aight, so throw those parts on a table and take the cams out. make sure you have a hand or finger on the chain because you DO NOT want to drop that into the engine. that =bad.

the cams come out a little stiff as you need to wiggle them a bit. i would reccomend taking the exhaust cam out first and then zip tying the cam chain to your frame while you get the intake cam out.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:22 AM
ok so your parts table should start to be pretty big now.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:25 AM
just so you know, the exhaust cam has little "ring" around it. make sure you dont mix up the cams! ok so now you should be looking at da buckets. under the buckets are the shims that control the clearances of your cams.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:26 AM
USE a magnet to take the buckets out, that way the shim will come with it.

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:28 AM
i organize the buckets and shims a certain way so when i make adjustments it is more simplistic.




if you are sitting on the quad, picture the top two buckets Front left and Front right, and the lower buckets Bottom Left and Bottom right. the top buckets and shims control the intake cam (clearances should be .010") and the bottom buckets and shims control the intake (clearances should be at .006")

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:37 AM
now, you are lookin specifically at the shims. there should be lil numbers written on them, but sometimes they will be worn off. record these numbers in relation to the chart i just showed you, and take them to your dealer with the original clearances you recorder. they should get you in the right direction.


or, if you feel ambitious, or just have a suck *** dealer, order this kit:


http://www.magicracing.com/HotCams-Shim-Kit_p_211-1409.html


this is the cheapest you will find, even if you 2 day ship it! in fact, its 2 day shipment beats Rocky's UPS ground!!! this baby has plenty of shims to last you pretty much a lifetime.


**if your clearances are too tight, you need a thinner shim

** if your clearances are big, you need to go to a thicker shim.

example:

you measured your intake clearance at .011" and you shim is a 192, you should try increasing that to say a 197 or 195. (the shim kit i mentioned is in increments of 5.)

wolffie
09-06-2006, 10:43 AM
make sure to check clearances for each valve (where the bucket is)

ok, so put the new shims on the little circle marked on the valve, and slide the bucket over it. the bucket should just glide in, DO NOT push it. if it does not just set in, you are not puttin it in at the right angle. it takes a big of finnaglling to get the hang of it.

so put the cams in with the timing marks i showed you before, put the cam stay on and torque the bolts to 7ft lbs of torque and check that your still at TDC (down by the timing plugs) and then release the tension of your chain SLOWLY. now recheck your clearances. if you are doin this on your own, it may take a couple of trys to get the hang of it. it is more time consuming than it is hard.

once you got everything together, DOUBLE, TRIPLE check little things such as timing, clearances, makin sure the cams are in the right spot etc. etc. slap the gasket back on with the head cover and you will be good to go. enjoy your newly tuned machine!!!

if anyone finds ANY room for improvement in this article, just hollar at me ;)

--wolffie

TRX23rider
09-06-2006, 11:58 AM
good write up! this should help alot of guys not just people with predators. lots of good info!

btw your inbox is full

kc8pnd
09-09-2006, 11:07 AM
Great thread. I must ask, what made you think your quad needed reshimmed? What's some symptoms to look for.

wolffie
09-09-2006, 04:58 PM
thanks for the comments guys (trx23rider, i cleaned the box out man:D )

kc8pnd, most people adjust their valves after every 25-35 hours i believe because they stretch out and you usually hear a slight "pinging" noise after you hit the throttle. For some odd reason, i had the other extreme; my intake side valves tightened WAY UP(there wasnt even any clearance when i checked them) the problem i had is the thing wouldnt start with the starter, you had to manually "pop start it". after the quad was warmed up, the clearances would stretch out and everything would be ok. of course, then after a bit they would tighten up again and you would have to redo the whole process, lol!

kc8pnd
09-09-2006, 05:16 PM
I went to the dealer today and talked to chadhix, he said try a plug in mine because it is not starting from a cold start. The plug never fixed anything. I have to choke + pull the carb to airbox tube off to get it to start. After I crank and crank with the starter it slowly fires up, once warm its fine, it fires right up. I think my shims are flat! Thanks for the write up, I might be doing this in the next few weeks.

wolffie
09-09-2006, 05:34 PM
so basically your machine wont start worth a ****, but then when you get her started shes ok for abit??

assuming you jetting is right and you have no airleaks, i would say your clearances are too tight.

kc8pnd
09-09-2006, 05:44 PM
It started starting hard slowly. I ride it hard most of the time for 1 to 2 hours every weekend. I would say close to 3 to 4 hours a week. As I said before it slowly started to do this, before I had to crank it over 3 or 4 times then a few weeks later choke it and now I have to take the air tube off. I think its the shims. There is no power loss that I can tell, this thing rips when its not spinning.

wolffie
09-09-2006, 06:27 PM
does it backfire at all under decceleration? im willing to bet you need some bigger shims. if you got time, tear the beast down and order a shim kit. just follow my guide and you should be fine. if you encounter any questions along the way, just PM me and i can do my best to help you out.:)

kc8pnd
09-09-2006, 07:01 PM
I don't notice any backfiring. It does blow gas vapor back out the carb (white mist) some times. I did order the shim kit, from hotcams so it was $90 :( never seen this thread till today, ordered it yesterday. O need to download a service manual from somewhere, I seen one a while back but never downloaded it.

wolffie
09-12-2006, 04:04 PM
yeah download it because IMHO, the Predator's owner manual is not very good. i bought one and find it less than stellar.:ermm: they dont do alot of "explaining", and there are very few pictures.

kc8pnd
09-26-2006, 05:41 PM
I got filler gauge in the mail today, ran out and took the front fenders and gas tank off, removed the valve cover and loosened the cam chain tensioner. I then slid an .06 filler under my intake cam and it would not go in. ran a .10 under the exhaust and it was perfect, just a slight drag like we want. So I removed the intake cam and dropped the little C shaped bearing stop (?) down into the motor, it landed pm the bottom cam sprocket so I fetched that out with a long screw driver. After all all that I started trying shims until I found one that worked for that valve ( long process) I then put the motor back in time which was very easy once you see how its done, I skipped that stupid brass link crap, the chain will work the same no matter what tooth its on. Any way, I put it all back together and hit the start button, BAMM it started instantly just like t use too!! I warmed it up and gave it a ride around the yard and was amazed at how much better it was running. Its like a rocket now that the shims are back to normal + the HMF & air box mod that I done after it started acting up. If you pred is doing what mine was doing then order the shim kit and do this adjustment, its easy, took me about 90 minutes.

wolffie
09-30-2006, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by kc8pnd
I got filler gauge in the mail today, ran out and took the front fenders and gas tank off, removed the valve cover and loosened the cam chain tensioner. I then slid an .06 filler under my intake cam and it would not go in. ran a .10 under the exhaust and it was perfect, just a slight drag like we want. So I removed the intake cam and dropped the little C shaped bearing stop (?) down into the motor, it landed pm the bottom cam sprocket so I fetched that out with a long screw driver. After all all that I started trying shims until I found one that worked for that valve ( long process) I then put the motor back in time which was very easy once you see how its done, I skipped that stupid brass link crap, the chain will work the same no matter what tooth its on. Any way, I put it all back together and hit the start button, BAMM it started instantly just like t use too!! I warmed it up and gave it a ride around the yard and was amazed at how much better it was running. Its like a rocket now that the shims are back to normal + the HMF & air box mod that I done after it started acting up. If you pred is doing what mine was doing then order the shim kit and do this adjustment, its easy, took me about 90 minutes.

thats what i like to hear!!:macho yeah it isnt that hard of a process but it is alot of "trial and error". good to see things worked out for you.

kc8pnd
09-30-2006, 05:16 PM
I was nervous at first but I plowed through, I think I started 6 pm and started it around 7:45 pm, it was just getting dark. I would much rather do all this stuff myself as long as its not real hard, and you don't need any special tools. It really gives you a sense of pride. :)

wolffie
09-30-2006, 05:24 PM
yeah it does give you a good sense of pride. when i first did it, everything seemed so intimidating, but it really isnt bad at all! in some regards, i think it is just as easy as jetting a carb.

harescrambles
12-02-2006, 10:43 AM
Here is a chart to show the correct shim to use,,, so's to cut out the trial and error. there are examples on the chart to get you started.....

rocketman1985
04-29-2009, 07:32 PM
I have been looking at this thread for a while now. But i dont understand the chart could someone help me out? I just want to make shure that i know every thing thanks. Oh yeah very nice thread i dont think i could do this my self without your help. Im going to do this soon. I will let people know the progress as i go through it.

alleskovar
09-10-2010, 05:29 AM
Definitely solved my hard starting problem. Been a problem for the last year/ since i bought the bike. Also I had no idea of the power i was missing out on. I had just got comfy with the weaker version and worn shims. Once I changed the shims and got this bike right, it was like a whole new machine to me! What a difference! Thanks and this board is the best ATV board on the net!

az_predator
01-06-2011, 03:15 PM
Anyone wanting to do this alone (like me) :D will want to go ahead and buy the polaris special tool for the cam chain tensioner. The method described in this thread (leaving the cam chain tensioner in) is pretty much impossible if you don't have a buddy available to help you out....trust me. Sure a screwdriver will work to remove the tension from the cam chain, but it's in such a tight place and it requires that a good amount of pressure be used to remove the cam chain tension that it's just easier to remove the tensioner assembly and use the special tool to reset it before re-inserting it into the head for re-installation. Removal of the tensioner also makes it easier to align the timing marks properly upon re-assembly since you will have slack on the chain to work with. The method described here will require a you to strain your fingertips turning a small screwdriver in a tight area to remove enough tension from the chain to allow removal from the cams. Since this adjustment is suppossed to be checked and if need, completed every 35 hours, IMO I think it's worth it to buy the tool for $17.95. The polaris part number is pa-45958 and can be found at this link: http://polaris.spx.com/Detail.aspx?id=202&cat=1.

Also, I don't remember if it was stated or not in the thread but upon re-assembly, the intake timing marks should be at 9 and 12 o'clock and the exhaust cam will be slightly advanced by one tooth once the tensioner is reinstalled. Just trying to save a few people a little bit of headache that i experienced. Nothing is worse than having to stop in the middle of a process and source additional manpower when it could be done a bit easier. Work smarter, not harder i always say :)

DuwBra
01-09-2011, 08:48 PM
In doing a shim and bucket valve adjustment there is math involved. Unless you want to spend all day trying out different shims to get it right. Find your clearance specs for intake and exhaust. Now ill try to explain this in words without showing you the best of my ability. Since shims are sold in increments of .05 you need to take the clearance you measured and either add or subtract to it .05 to get your clearance within the spec range. (side note: intake should be on tight side of clearance exhaust on loose side because exhaust heats up faster and will expand more). Once you do that if you added to your clearance then that means you have to subtract that much from your shim number you are replaceing, and vice versa. Tada! Your resulting number you get from either adding or subtracting to your shim will be the new shim you need to get. say your shim says 195, that means it is 1.95mm shim. Odd shim numbers like 197 or 192 are more complex to do and I dont want to screw up trying to explain that to you via comment.

Chuck75
11-04-2011, 05:24 AM
started mine last night but I'm not buying the whole 90 dollar shim kit for the two that I need. my local Honda/Polaris dealer says the shims from a Honda 450 should be the same. I brought one to work with me today and I'm going by there today so we'll see.
Well its monday and I finished up this weekend. I'm not sure if it was the intake valve being too tight or the spark plug gap that I found to be set at .010. I reset everything to where its suppost to be and WOW:eek2: this thing cranked right up. and just sounds so much better. I let it run for a few to check for any leaks and am pleasntly suprise as to how long it'll idle now as before it would only idle for maybe a minute.
I took it out for a little test ride around the block and there is so much power now its stupid. I'll never let it get this far out again.
ohh. and as for the shims, dont waist your money on hotcams kit as my local Honda dealer sells the 450r shims (which are excactly the same) for 5.99 each. hell of alot better than 90 bucks for the kit.

WALTERAKIN
12-02-2011, 06:58 PM
WOW ,THAT WAS EASY ,WHAT A LIFE SAVER. YOU ARE DEAD ON , NO NEED FOR ANY CHANGES.MANY THANKS TO YOU.

PAlittlematty
03-11-2013, 07:29 PM
My first post here but I've used this write up to do my cousins(now my) predator. My big question is, when you get down to the 120 shims and the valves tighten up again, what's the fix? New valves? And how hard is that to do? I'm pretty handy with a wrench

Jake Chapman
08-17-2013, 11:50 PM
ok, so chances are things are out of wack. this is where i usually seek the help of slave labor:devil: just kidding. bought seriousely, grab a buddy, this will make things easier.

you will need to loosen the cam tensioner. located on the right side of the quad near where the header raps around. pop the 10mm bolt off (it is really shallow) and set it with your parts. you will need to take a screw driver (i believe a 1/8) and stick it in the slot until it "catches". now, have your buddy turn the screwdrive to the RIGHT until it can be turned no more. either use a vice grip to hold the tension or just have your friend sit there and hold it. this takes the tension off of the cam chain so you can remove it. picture taken by preddy08 from www.predatorowners.com


Instead of having to hold the cam tensioner the entire time with a screw driver, you can remove the whole tensioner assembly by just loosening the tensioner bolt, then taking out the two bolts that hold it to the cylinder. Then just bolt it back on when you have the cams back in and the chain back on. It simplifies the process.

WYNANDETS
05-09-2014, 10:29 PM
Super post. Busy adjusting my valves now an the intake side also has no gap, not even the thinnest gauge will fit. Now i am a bit confused as to how i can get the correct shim size without buying a whole set cause here in South Africa its extremely expensive for a kit.Any ideas will be super appreciated

tmaxxs10
07-29-2014, 04:51 PM
I can not get the thinnest feeler.0015 I belive under my intake valves. I have a 175 and can't tell the other. What size shim will I need to correct this

gobigparts
04-15-2019, 06:35 AM
How does the intake side get too tight? Sims like as the shim smushes it would get looser? Maybe I am thinking about it backwards.

I will measure with filler and then used a caliper to find the shim that get me close to the measurement I need. I have a shim kit. Any concerns getting the timing off doing this? Or as long as I line the cam marks on the sprockets back where they were I will be good?