Mitilitary Training?

[250ex13]

Im not really sure what you call it... i would beleve its called mitiltary training..Anyway i was just watching a show on it and was wondering when they do those practice's, Are the guns really shooting anything? or are they just making noise's??:confused:

[CannondaleRider]

Like....Ranger Training?

In most any training, I'd bet on it being live rounds....why wouldn't it be?

[250ex13]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider
Like....Ranger Training?

In most any training, I'd bet on it being live rounds....why wouldn't it be? Like they were accually shooting eachother as if they were in combat.. i dont think they would accually use real bullets?

[firefighterjosh]

Are you talking about when they are crawling under razr wire?

Back in the day YEs it was live rounds and if you held your head up you would be shot.

Now they are just blank rounds, aka just making noises.

[ak_stick]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
Are you talking about when they are crawling under razr wire?

Back in the day YEs it was live rounds and if you held your head up you would be shot.

Now they are just blank rounds, aka just making noises.

uh, negatron bat man, its still live rounds.

No when using MILES (Multiple Intigrated Laser Engament Systems) Gear, you fire blanks, with a special adapter on the front of the gun that allows the rifle to cycle with blank loads, and you have laser attched to the rifle that detects the pulse of the blank, and fires a laser.

We also have Simunition, wich is a plastic paint ball round fired from a M9 or M11 pistol. Last I heard its not useable in long guns yet.

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by 250ex13
Like they were accually shooting eachother as if they were in combat.. i dont think they would accually use real bullets?

Oh, I thought you were talking about shooting in a range, at targets, stuff like that.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by ak_stick
uh, negatron bat man, its still live rounds.

What in the heck did you just say? Still live rounds?

[ilpadrino113]

yes when you're crawling under razor wire for training and all that **** they fire live rounds. They do it at night so you can see the tracer rounds. If poke your head up, you will be shot.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by ilpadrino113
yes when you're crawling under razor wire for training and all that **** they fire live rounds. They do it at night so you can see the tracer rounds. If poke your head up, you will be shot.

That was back in the day. My buddie just went through the Army and they were not live rounds. The Army Can't even yell at you anymore like they could back in the day. So why would they be shooting live rounds? I would beat money on it that they are not live rounds.

[ak_stick]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
What in the heck did you just say? Still live rounds?

Yes, we still train with live ammo during the barbwire obsticles, and many other combat training tasks.

[ak_stick]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
That was back in the day. My buddie just went through the Army and they were not live rounds. The Army Can't even yell at you anymore like they could back in the day. So why would they be shooting live rounds? I would beat money on it that they are not live rounds.

I dont care what your buddy told you, he was wrong. But if you want to bet, I'll be glad to take your money.

A kid in the class before me took a 7.62x51mm round from a M-60 through the chest and died during the barb wire obsticle corse, tell me they dont fire live ammo, I watched the tracers fly as I crawled under the wire. Why do you think there is a big berm behind the corse? To catch the blanks? Cant yell? Yeah, ok, I'll run the BS flag up on this too, I went through in 04 and they still yelled and swore.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by ak_stick
I dont care what your buddy told you, he was wrong. But if you want to bet, I'll be glad to take your money.

A kid in the class before me took a 7.62x51mm round from a M-60 through the chest and died during the barb wire obsticle corse, tell me they dont fire live ammo, I watched the tracers fly as I crawled under the wire. Why do you think there is a big berm behind the corse? To catch the blanks? Cant yell? Yeah, ok, I'll run the BS flag up on this too, I went through in 04 and they still yelled and swore.

Dude, you get a little yellow stick and if the drill sargent gets in your face too much you just hold it up and he has to leave you alone. They might yell more in survival training but they can't abuse you like they could back in the day

[ak_stick]

dude, no they dont, the days of the stress card are WAY LONG gone, that was back in the 90's.

there is no yellow stick that makes the DS your friend, no they're not supposed to hit you, but it still happens. No they cant abuse you the way they used to, but its no cake walk.

[firefighterjosh]

He said he got in better shape during are soccer 2 a days in High school. He said the only hard part was survival training. If ppl were dieing in training American ppl would go crazy. Yes I belive there is still stress cards.

[ak_stick]

alright, then let me put this gentely, your an idiot.

stress cards died a long time ago. go look it up if you think I'm bluffing, they're dead and gone.

And we loose more troops in training than we do in combat, yes it sucks, but it happens ALL the damn time.

Chutes dont open, kids get shot ( I saw it happen), helicopters crash, kids jump out of planes and get blown into trees breaking limbs, necks, and all sorts of stuff. Ect.


But yeah, if you want to ignore the word of a Sgt, in the U.S. Army, who's done more training, than you, or your friend, lead and instructed classes, and spent a couple years in the army now, by all means, dont listen to what I've said, what could I possibly know.

[firefighterjosh]

Well this is a never ending battle so..... Ok you win I have never been in the Army, Just know alot of ppl that have and here stories. Every person I talk to say the same thing. But o well you win..... later on

[450robot]

ok, where are the people who have actually been in the army?

im sick of hearing these 2 *****!

and i also wanna know what type of guns/ammo style is being used for combat sim training

[CannondaleRider]

Originally posted by 450robot
ok, where are the people who have actually been in the army?

im sick of hearing these 2 *****!


......seems to me that ak_stick has....

[250R-Dee]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
Well this is a never ending battle so..... Ok you win I have never been in the Army, Just know alot of ppl that have and here stories. Every person I talk to say the same thing. But o well you win..... later on

Marine checking in...!!!

firefighterjosh - you do not have firsthand experience with military training so please keep remove yourself from this thread. When I went through boot camp in '92 we had live fire training. When I went through combat training in '93 after boot camp we had live fire training sessions that mad ethe ones it bootcamp look like childsplay. I don't know about the other branches of the services but I do know the Corps (USMC) and the Army still have live fire training sessions. Infantrymen and related MOS's (jobs) get even more live fire training sessions at their follow-on schools.

The Corps tried out that stress card crap for a couple months back in the mid 90's but it didn't work very well since many recruits "lost" their cards. "Lost" = got eaten by a hungry D.I. or got eaten by a "hungry" recruit or something of that nature. Stress cards are counter productive for the military. Unbeknownst to most people, all you have to do is QUIT during initial training and the military will let you go. But before a recruit/trainee is allowed to leaves the military they (the military) will make every effort to ensure that specific recruit/trainee is marked as a quiter and as a person who has broken a legal contract. Finding a good job is difficult when you have negative marks associated with military service.

I was talking to a Marine friend, who has only been in for 2 years, a couple days ago and he was talking about one of the guys who freaked out during a live fire training session. The guy froze so they had to shut down the range so the freak could be removed from the course. It was the same course I went through that had 3 machineguns shooting over the wire while pyrotechnics are used to simulate mortor rounds landing. The machineguns were actually shooting about 2 feet over the wire so you'd have to STANDUP in order to get hit.

Maybe your friend went through the Salvation Army training course or maybe it was the Old Navy shopping course:D :chinese:

[firefighterjosh]

Maybe my friend just isn't in it far enough. But in 2 months he goes to Iraq or somewere. Also when he calls me at like 2am drunk saying he is with his GI buddies drinking on a weds night. They drink all the time. Legal as long as ther back by 4am. How bad can it be...... Maybe it was a fake broadcast but I watched a thing on Cable (forget channel) over Marine training and it was a joke. compared to the stories my Grandpa told me about his navy seal training. They would take you and beat you to a pulp if you just laughed.

Sorry but everything I have watched and learned hasn't impressed me. I am prally wrong I admit it ....but this is what I have learned. Maybe I just need to see it for myself, but all my friends say boot camp is a joke, the only hard training was survival training.

[Phills450r]

Originally posted by 250R-Dee
bought camp:

[ak_stick]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
Maybe my friend just isn't in it far enough. But in 2 months he goes to Iraq or somewere. Also when he calls me at like 2am drunk saying he is with his GI buddies drinking on a weds night. They drink all the time. Legal as long as ther back by 4am. How bad can it be...... Maybe it was a fake broadcast but I watched a thing on Cable (forget channel) over Marine training and it was a joke. compared to the stories my Grandpa told me about his navy seal training. They would take you and beat you to a pulp if you just laughed.

Sorry but everything I have watched and learned hasn't impressed me. I am prally wrong I admit it ....but this is what I have learned. Maybe I just need to see it for myself, but all my friends say boot camp is a joke, the only hard training was survival training.


dude, if he's going to iraq in 2 months, he's not in boot. Plus you dont leave the company area, much less the base if your in boot.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by ak_stick
dude, if he's going to iraq in 2 months, he's not in boot. Plus you dont leave the company area, much less the base if your in boot.

I already told you he is out of boot. He has went through Survival training too. Now he is going for something else. He leaves the area.....you don't have to belive me, but I don't lie.

[ak_stick]

actualy you didnt say where he was.

you dont do "survival" training, unless you go to a SERE school, and even then thats totaly different depending on what class and level you take.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
........He said the only hard part was survival training........


^^^^

[ak_stick]

like I said, that doesnt say a thing.

survival training can be used to discribe just about anything

AIT's little 5 day "warrior week", like half of basic training, a pre-mob Individual Movment Corse, or even so remote as SERE school

there is no universaly known "survival training" in the army

[ak_stick]

oh, and I dont think your telling me a lie, I just think you, or your buddy, is a little mis-informed.

[250R-Dee]

Phills450r :D - Thanks for pointing that out!!

firefighterjosh - watching an edited public relaions veiw of training on cable and actually going through training are two totally different things.

You sound like one of those old fat armchair QB's who sits in front of the idotbox every saturday and sunday screaming: "I ain't ever played a bit of football in my entire life but I can play better than that guy." :rolleyes:

For me bootcamp was EASY because I had already been through that crap many times in military school, football camps, wrestling camps, and by merely being around my family and their troops so I already knew the military mindset. But many boot camp was a very trying times for many of my fellow Marine recruits. Until you walk on the yellow feet print and earn the title of US Marine you do not rate to say if training is/was difficult or easy.

True story from bootcamp:
USMC Recruit Depot Parris Island, SC - one saturday in August 1992.

There I stood with my platoon in a sandbox that barely had enough room for all 65 of us. We were doing a "teamwork building" session because a couple of the Gomer Pyles didn't know their left from their right and we had too many individualistic hotshots who thought they were back on the block.

0730 - drink two canteens of water
0800
Everybody was holding their rifles perpendicular to the ground while jogging in place (high stepping). Everytime a rifle dropped below perpendicular we, the entire platoon, had to drop and do 50 push-ups in unison without allowing any of the rifles to touch the ground. To our amazement we did this for 4 straight hours.

At 1000 we got a less than minute water break so we could chug a canteen.

1200 - secure rifles and clean up for chow
1215 - late for chow
Break for chow - From the moment the Guide (head recruit) sits at his table everybody has 5 minutes to clean their trays. The guide purposely walk through the line slow so the rest of my platoon could get a breather and scarf down some chow. Some of these guys were on double rations because they were at the weight minimum so the guide had to make sure those guys finished their meals. Double rat recruits were always at the front of the line.

1230 - Chug two canteens for water and prepare for more training

Back to the pits (sandbox) without rifles -
200 + chinese jump jacks, 200+ bend and thrust, way too many 4 count jumping jacks (probably more than a thousand), standing on one foot for 10+ minutes at a time after doing all that other crap.

Now comes the killer! As the sun was dying down the sand fleas (gnat on steroids) began to swarm us like cray but we couldn't do anything because the Drill Instructor had given us an order to not harm his beloved pets.

SMACK, some idiot just disobeyed the order. "Dig a hole FOOLS", yells the D.I because you are going to give my beloved Sand Flea a proper burial after this criminal (idiot who disobeyed the order) is given a proper trial. Criminal is found guilty and sentenced to "every other shift" firewatch for one week (that is every other hour while the rest if use try to get 5 or 6 hours of sleep. Court precedings only took 30 secnds and the burial followed. The idiot had to dig a hole in the pit and then eulogize the fallen sand flea. His eulogy was funny as hell and every recruit who laughed was awarded 200 pushups for not respecting the sand flea.

Needless to say, no more sand fleas were killed while we were in boot camp:p but we did go to the "pits" many more times. How does that type of training pertain to combat? Simple, you are given a no noise and no unnecessary movement order while on a patrol. You are in a mosquito infested area and the enemy of a larger size is approaching. The element of surprise will give this patrol the advantage once the enemy reaches the appropriate range. SMACK - some idiot just killed a mosquito thusly giving the enemy time to take cover and destroy the patrol.

USMC boot camp - there are no weeknight or weekend passes. There is absolutely no chance to smoke cigarettes, drink booze or flirt with the skanks from 4th recruit battallion. At Combat Training, which is after boot camp, there are chances to have fun but that only happens when you are not in the field. There are 21 days assigned to combat training and 18 of those days are spent in the field ......TRAINING.

After MCT Marines head off to their MOS schools.

Don't believe everything you watch on TV:huh

[your2slo2]

Originally posted by ak_stick
alright, then let me put this gentely, your an idiot.

stress cards died a long time ago. go look it up if you think I'm bluffing, they're dead and gone.

And we loose more troops in training than we do in combat, yes it sucks, but it happens ALL the damn time.

Chutes dont open, kids get shot ( I saw it happen), helicopters crash, kids jump out of planes and get blown into trees breaking limbs, necks, and all sorts of stuff. Ect.


But yeah, if you want to ignore the word of a Sgt, in the U.S. Army, who's done more training, than you, or your friend, lead and instructed classes, and spent a couple years in the army now, by all means, dont listen to what I've said, what could I possibly know.



Well being prior service the stress cards were issued in late 1998 or early 1999 I know for a fact those timelines are correct because they started using them shortly after I graduated from basic in september of 98 , And about the live fire it was used while I was there during the night-fire course while crawling under constantine wire there was live fire with alot of tracer rounds and fake explosions going off around the perimeter and if my word is not enough proof I bought my video of basic training and it sure looks like live fire from 50 cal's if I ever seen one . But maybe they phased it out I dont know but I know what I went through .

[ak_stick]

Realy, they used stress cards after you graduated?


I think not.

http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm

[400exrules]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
He said he got in better shape during are soccer 2 a days in High school. He said the only hard part was survival training. If ppl were dieing in training American ppl would go crazy. Yes I belive there is still stress cards.


omfg your an idiot.....PLEASE STOP TALKING!!!

your so full of BS its not even funny

[250ex13]

Originally posted by 400exrules
omfg your an idiot.....PLEASE STOP TALKING!!!

your so full of BS its not even funny :macho

[jrm03]

the yellow footprints, the screaming, the quarter deck, the pit... and the sand fleas..................ah, memories... Semper Fi

[xtremefullbore]

I went to military training just this summer in July in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, and there were live rounds on some of the obsticles, and firefighterjosh... when u said how hard can it be when hes getting drunk at 2 a.m in the morning, go to military training and u cant tell me u didnt think u would die from training everyday, trust me its not easy at all, Im still in high school so before I can really make more progress in joining the army I want to graduate, but when you are a smalltown teenager and you join the army, nothing feels better then fighting for your country, and who said you cant be tired as hell and still get drunk?? I had a couple freinds who I convinced to come with me to training and we were gased from training but we still drank some nights and went to Big Louis (best night club in Missouri :p) but under no circumstance was training ever easy. And you cant do what you did at school in P.E class and when the teacher wasn't looking walk instead of run, you might get in a little bit of trouble. :chinese:

[<DRS>GPF]

aahhh the memories..

in '84 they were using live ammo in the Army, but the guns were definitely locked into position well over our heads

by no means was basic easy.. i made it easier by looking at the physically worst in my platoon and knowing i was in better shape than that.. lol

in fact, basic was the worst(as in miserable) part of my military career by far..

i remember the 5mile march becoming 12miles while i carried my "profile" buddies pack while he rode the truck as a cripple.. my feet were actually bleeding from the depth of blisters but about 20guys and i from our brigade didnt stop.. it rained.. they gassed us during breaks..
we just kept going..

got a day off for that.. and we were happy..

CBH (tear gas) training was actually funny.. afterwards..lol guys bawling like babies.. snot pouring out.. the freshly shaven skin burning like fire.. the pics were a good laugh for all of us..

i had to pull double shifts on guard duty because of my "profile" buddy..
i make it sound like my buddy was lazy, but he busted his ankle jumping from the cattle truck after the first PT test and had a cast and a pass for the rest of any physical training.. had it been before then, he'd have been recycled..

i remember when i was picked up while at attention by my helmet strap.. it left a strawberry under my jaw for quite a while, but i didnt break position..

we got in trouble for being the only platoon with 100% pass on PT tests, it made us different.. for punishment theyd make us low crawl on concrete for what seemed like hours.. in reality it was about 30 to 45min drills.. we bled.. alot..
the next time it happened we did rifle drills after chow until it was bed time..(about 4hrs with the dummy rifles..)

i enjoyed the couple days of KP, cause i got to eat at a regular pace and it didnt involve pain..

we did push-ups on graduation day in our class A's in front of the world.. it was said that someone on the outside row turned his head.. we figured they were just being a-holes..

basic was far from easy..

my last assignment was at Ft. Dix(a tradoc post.. VIP's frequently visited) as a field tech/trainer for the rifle ranges.. they were live rounds then also..

they were starting to experiment with tolerance training.. we couldnt cuss or get physical with the trainees.. that sucked..

ive no idea whats happened in the last decade(or so) for basic training.. id like to think they got rid of the really bitter DI's, but it was supposed to simulate a combat situation..

[firefighterjosh]

I am sorry if I made a big ster that wasn't my intent. I just repeated what I have heard and stuff and yes It seems I have been wrong. But I do not lie, that is what I have heard. Maybe since I am not in the military maybe I get stuffed mixed up since I do not know the MIlitary slang.

Sorry sounds like I am wrong, Alteast I admit it.

Its just hard to belive they use live rounds. But I guess thats what they gotta do to get you ready for Iraq.

[jrm03]

some of the best memories I have were from boot camp at Parris Island. Who else could make you walk around clucking like a chicken.....DI. Low crawl at 5 in the morning in mud and roots to get to 1st Battalion chow hall.......DI. Sorry, I'm taking this thread off topic. They need to make a thread... The Drill Instructor made you do what??!!!! firefighterjosh...no harm no foul.

[armysig]

Stuff like this thread irks me. If you haven't been in the Army or any branch of the military you can't say crap about it. I don't care who said it was easy, or it's a cake walk now.

For one it's not as easy as some people say it is. I have seen more people get chaptered out of "Basic" Not boot, training because they missed their mama's or their girlfriend, or what ever else they could cry about.

Are rounds fired at you during your last FTX, hell yes they are. You're on your back crawling through the mud and you see tracers about 5 feet above your head. It sucks, I got stuck in the barb wire and a Drill had to come and help me out because I got all tangled in it. It's no joke. They almost had to close the range because of what happened with me.

If you think Basic is a joke, let's see you go to bed at 2300 oh sorry 11:00pm and wake up at 0330, whoops 3:30am and then go and do some PT, then eat, sit in a boring class for 3 hours (trying to stay awake I might add) then some more PT or corrective training(pt). Then you get the pleasure of more classes in the afternoon. Oh and don't forget the PT, it's constant for about 5 weeks.

The only day I looked forward to was Sunday because I could go to church and get away from the Drills.

The army is no joke. I'll be honest. We don't want snot nosed punks who think they know everything in the Army. We'll do every thing to make sure you get kicked out. Atleast I did when I saw someone that didn't want to work as a team.

[armysig]

DEAR CIVILIANS,


Dear Civilians, We know the current state of affairs in our great nation have many civilians up in arms and excited to join the military. For those of you who can't join, you can still lend a hand. Here are a few of the areas where we would like your assistance:

1. The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during the playing of the National Anthem---kick their ***.

2. When you witness, firsthand, someone burning the American Flag in protest---kick their ***.

3. Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans. If you see anyone doing otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how these veterans fought for the very freedom they bask in every second. Enlighten them on the many sacrifices these veterans made to make this Nation great. Then hold them down while a
disabled Veteran kicks their ***.

4. (GUYS) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were. Wearing camoflage battle dress uniforms (BDUs), telling others that you used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might have been okay when you were seven years old. Now, it will only make you look stupid and get your *** kicked.

5. Next time you come across a Soldier, do not ask them, "Did you kill anyone?" This is not an open disscusion. Ask again and we might have to kick your ***. (children are exempt).

6. If you witness someone calling the US Coast Guard 'non-military', inform them of their mistake---and kick their ***.

7. Next time Old Glory (the US flag) passes during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart. Quietly thank the military member or Veteran lucky enough to be carrying her---of course, failure to do either of those could earn you a severe ***-kicking.

8. Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran. We are Americans, and we all bleed the same, regardless of our party affiliation. Our Chain-of-Command includes our Commander-In-Chief (CINC). The President (for those who didn't know) is our CINC, regardless of political party. We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important buildings where all those representatives meet. All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out. If you keep asking us the same stupid questions repeatedly, you will get your *** kicked!

9. 'Your mama wears combat boots' never made sense to me---stop saying it! If she did, she would most likely be a Veteran and, therefore, could kick your ***!

10. Bin Laden and the Taliban are not Communists, so stop saying 'Let's go kill those Commies!' And stop asking us where he is! Crystal balls are not standard issue in the military. That reminds me---if you see anyone calling those damn psychic phone numbers, let me know, so I can go kick their ***.

11. 'Flyboy' (Air Force), 'Jarhead' (Marines), 'Grunt' (Army), 'Squid' (Navy), etc., are terms of endearment we use describing each other. Unless you are a service member or Veteran, you have not earned the right to use them. That could get your *** kicked.

12. Last, but not least, whether or not you become a member of the military, support our troops and their families. Every holiday you enjoy and gather with family and friends, please remember that there are literally thousands of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines far from home wishing they could be with their families.

[your2slo2]

Originally posted by ak_stick
Realy, they used stress cards after you graduated?


I think not.

http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm

I'll tell you what you believe what you want to and I will mine I was there then and so werent the cards how does this website know anything that is somebody's personal view , more than likely the military didnt want new recruits or the civilian world knowing about the cards being afraid that people would think the army turned in to a bunch of pussies but hey thats just my opinion like everybody else's posts in this forum nobody knows who to believe but people tell what they think is true and then somebody who thinks THEY KNOW IT ALL has to pipe up and ruin a perfectly good thread just like every other thread there always has to be somebody to ruin it for everybody now for my opinion if you cant grow up enough not to flame someone on a thread then maybe you shouldnt come around . I dont post very often but when I do I like to think that I am actually offering assistance instead of flaming somebody . Grow up so called soldier .

[ak_stick]

ouch, well sorry but I just call it like I see it, and when I seee or hear somthing I know is wrong, like stress cards, I correct it.

Now if you'd like to refute that, be my guest, but I find it kind of funny that for all the talk everyone makes, it was always just before I got there, or just after I got there, and no one seems to be able to prove that they existed, not a single card has been found, or taken home by anyone, and no one seems to have first hand knowledge of them. Odd I'd say, esp as small a family as the military, we cant hide anything else the military has done, but we could hide a year or more's use of stress cards riiiiight.


untill then, the information stands as, you are incorrect sir, they were not there, never were or have been.

Now if you'd like to insult my military career, why dont you post your DD-214 and we can compare.

http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm

The stress card discussion is done, now continuing arguing like children over the internet. It's letting the other people have their laugh for the day.

[ak_stick]

Way to go man, only like 3 1/2 hrs after the fact....

[250ex13]

Originally posted by ak_stick
Way to go man, only like 3 1/2 hrs after the fact.... :p