400ex front end conversion Test & Review

[Pappy]

We now have everything needed and installed to start a test and review on our 300ex suspension.


A call to JB Racing netted us a 400ex shock relocator that was suggested by Elka as the unit to get. A new set of stock 400ex shocks were on hand and finally our Burgard 400ex +1 HD Control Arms rounded out the first part of this test.

C&D Racing will be building a set of stock 450R shocks to our specs tomorrow now that I have the required measurements. We hope to see how the stock 400ex shocks, then the rebuilt 450R shocks and finally a set of Elka shocks all work on this set up.

I just tightened the last bolt and after the brake lines are bleed and secured I will post pictures of the new set up.

[Pappy]

When we decided to do the suspension on our 300ex, we had every option available but decided on trying to see what we could get out of the above listed front shock options. Using existing shocks from another model to save money is a growing trend, and we were anxious to see how well it all works starting with the 400ex stock shocks.

After running the 300ex in stock form, on both MX tracks and XC courses, we knew the stock rear had to go. Our rider could control for the most part how hard the front end hit, but the rear shock was showing signs of it's limits very early. A quick call to Elka soon had a dual rate fully adjustable rear shock in our hands.

[Pappy]

The stock 300ex front shocks actually worked well at first for our young rider. Moving up to the 300cc machine from a 90 class racer with full aftermarket suspension would take some getting used to. Our first race with the stock shocks awakened us to the stock shock short comings. On the MX track, it took several large jumps to actually bottom them, but they faded fast.

[Pappy]

The first short test ride took place and I must admit that it handles much better then I thought it would. I set the front end up with 2 degrees of camber and 1/4 toe and it handles like it is on rails. Responsive but not twitchy.


It is a bit to late for pictures, but tomorrow I will have the quad washed and get the finished set up posted. The width with the +1 400ex arms is at 43 inches with 4-1 rims.

[countypark]

Killer post Pappy!:cool:

Here's a close up of my mount. Remember when this came out?? I think Dave Maccarol had the first one.

Can't wait to read your results and conclusions.

[Pappy]

Yep, I remember when dave rebuilt his and showed the QS mount. I also know his set up worked very well, good enough for him to abuse in the GNCC's the same as you!:D

I'm interested in the 450R shocks and I should have them next week to install. The 400ex stockers seem to work well but I am sure they would fade as fast as the 300 shocks did, but they are much better then the stock suspension from what I can tell.

[countypark]

I went thru a similar study over the years with mine but I never documented the results. So far your results are very similar.

I can't wait to hear the rest.

[Pappy]

I dont know what all the review will reveal, hopefully that the C&D rebuilds would be a stepping stone for someone who did not want to drop the coin on full on aftermarket shocks.


In hind sight, I probably should have gone +2 and ran a 45 inch front end, but I wanted it to remain nimble enough for the size of our rider. To wide and rider input becomes difficult for the small framed or young riders in the woods.

[Pappy]

Everything is now ready for some riding to see how well it all works.

[Pappy]

The Burgard arms I chose have the new heavier Frap style ball joints on the lower arm, and the heavier 16mm on the upper

[Pappy]

I reckon all that is left is to pound it:p

[Mx_523]

Originally posted by Pappy
The Burgard arms I chose have the new heavier Frap style ball joints on the lower arm, and the heavier 16mm on the upper

Does that benifit the handleing in anyway? Whats the purpose for it? To make it stronger?

[Pappy]

The heavier ball joint is mainly for strength, however they may also add a small amount travel over the 14mm ball joints.

In the past, there have been those that complained of the 14mm ball joints breaking, but i havent seen first hand any break that were not caused by a crash or being abused. (abused in the sense the shocks were not set up for the arms, weight of rider or in some cases the ball joints were installed improperly)

I like this ball joint over the 14's simply because the lowers are stronger period.

[Mx_523]

Okay, thanks Pappy. Also I noticed the Elka ressie in the front. Whats up with that?:confused:

[Pappy]

The Elka rezzy is for the rear Elka shock

[swampfoxsc]

Pappy, there are a few of us watching this thread with with a high amount of curiosity. We plan to race the GNCC's next year in the Sport class on 300EX's and the front suspension has us dumbfounded. There seem to be many ways of going about building one with many different ideas about what works and what doesn't and what is the best.

My main question is why didn't you go with Burgard 300EX LT a-arms and use the stock upper shock mount instead of the shock relocator? Can Burgard build me a set of LT 300EX a-arms with these larger ball joints?

[Pappy]

Yes, Burgard can build the LT arms that use a 400ex length shock. We too had planned on that very set up, but I also know that Burgard can take forever on special stuff(I would to if it was 1 set of odd balls versus 600 sets of the stuff they are set up to build everyday etc)

The LT arms that use the 400ex length shock seem to have a very bad motion ratio. This is not just a Burgard issue, it also happens to cover a few other knock off arms on the market. The manufacture can say it doesnt and that thiers work, but the shock builders tell me they do and I tend to listen to them as I feel the shock is far more important then the arm.

So, we opted for a set up that is commonly used and has been tested and proven by people I personally trust. We can also go wider if we so chose without breaking the bank on a high dollar set of arms that work no better then what we have:p

[swampfoxsc]

Thanks for confusing me even more!

Let me get all of this straight. You're using 400EX a-arms with all 300EX hardware, spindles, hubs, etc? The a-arms are 400EX +1 which makes the quad 45 inches wide with stock rims, correct? Do you have an idea what the width with +2 and 4:1 Hipers will be?

Why not LT 400EX with the relocator and a 19 inch shock? Too expensive or just not necessary for what you're trying to achieve?

I don't mean to highjack your thread but there's ALOT of bad info out there and I only want to build a national level GNCC quad one time and not redo the front end every race to get it right.

[Pappy]

We are using all 300ex parts except the Arms which are +1 400ex.

We are at 43 inches wide with 4-1 rims, with stock rims we should be at 44 or so. For an adult rider or for mx, +2 or +3 arms would be the ticket for XC placing width between 47 and 49 depending on rim offset.

A 19 inch shock....I believe there is not enough travel in the 300ex to fully use a 19inch LT shock so IMO it would be wasted money. We have a 17 1/2 inch fully extended measurement to work with as it is:p The 450R shocks rebuilt to our specs should allow us to obtain and USE all available travel.

When you widen up a machine with such a short wheel base, wider is not always better. For all out MX or TT I am sure you could get away with it, but for XC I think 47 will be the target number. For us, being that a young rider will be at the controls, keeping the quad a tad on the narrow side will help as it will not fatigue him as much. His body input will have much more impact at 44 inches then it would at 48. He may also be able to get through areas a wider set up wouldnt at speed

[Mx_523]

Originally posted by Pappy
The Elka rezzy is for the rear Elka shock

You got it running from the back of the quad all the way to the front?:confused:

[elementryder]

hey why didint you use the 400ex lt a-arms -- what do you think about gdh racing a-arms (exman) i shure you heard of them on here there +3 300ex a-arms and use 400ex shocks i dont know about the geometry but the caster is off 1. its not at the suggested degerz 2. each side hase a diif amount of caster

do burgard build good quality lt a-arms

[Pappy]

I explained in an earlier post why standard is fine for us, especially for XC on the 300ex.

I have heard of GDH, as you can see were did not chose them. I havent heard enough good and too much negative to run them.

I have never had problems with Burgard arms.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Mx_523
You got it running from the back of the quad all the way to the front?:confused:

Yes, this is how most Elka rear rezzys are installed on most models.

[swampfoxsc]

I got the 19 inch shock idea from a post by someone runing 400EX LT arms with a shock relocator. I'm not sure if they know their stuff or not.

By your math and measuring, +3 400EX arms with 4:1 Hipers should be at 47 inches wide.

The problem I'm having with your measurements is that 400EX a-arms are supposed to be wider than 300EX a-arms. Are you saying that +1 400EX a-arms are equal to +3 300EX a-arms? If that's correct then I understand. :huh

[Pappy]

First, a 400ex LT set up may work fine, however I wanted this to be something anyone could do using stock or used 400ex parts and keep the price reasonable.


+1 400ex arms and 4-1 rims have us at 43 inches wide. +2 would put us at 45 with 4-1(47 with 3-2) and +3 at 47 with 4-1 (49 with 3-2)

Yes, using 400ex arms will have you wider then using 300ex arms even at +3 for each because the 400ex is wider to start with...lol

[swampfoxsc]

Originally posted by Pappy
Yes, using 400ex arms will have you wider then using 300ex arms even at +3 for each because the 400ex is wider to start with...lol

That's what I thought but I was a little confused!

How would you say the rear works, good or great?

[Xeller8]

If memory serves correct 400ex a-arms are 1.25 wider than 300ex.

[Pappy]

I think they may be a touch wider then 1.25 on the lower but I just eye balled it.


The Elka rear is working fine. We have an adjustable LSR axle and the Elka and the rest is stock. Maybe after more power is added the swing arm might be addressed but for now its holding its own.

[Xeller8]

I wish I could find a decent price on a +3 swingarm for mine...but it doesn't seem that there is much available for the 300's unless you have them built to order and that gets mighty spendy...

I am actually toying with the idea of a 450r swinger conversion...the only prob is you have to change EVERYTHING over on the rear AND move the shock mount.

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Pappy, how does Cody like it?

[Jersey450R]

people have to start reading these entire threads and remembering what pappy said rather than ask the same question over and over again. i wouldnt want to answer the same question over and over again. he seems busy enough, lol! sorry to sound loud, but it would make me mad.

awesome build pappy, i'm sure the setup will be more than enough for codeman, well...for the time being anyway, lol. i'm gonna love in about 4-5 years when he rippin the 450 and were all still here looking back on these threads.

good luck bud.

[Pappy]

He has only riden it enough to make sure the front end settings were good to go. We will be testing it at BPG this weekend.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Jersey450R


awesome build pappy, i'm sure the setup will be more than enough for codeman, well...for the time being anyway, lol. i'm gonna love in about 4-5 years when he rippin the 450 and were all still here looking back on these threads.



As long as he is in one piece Ill be happy:p

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Originally posted by Pappy
As long as he is in one piece Ill be happy:p

holy ****! hes crazy.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
holy ****! hes crazy.

Not bad for a 12 year old midget:D

[400eXr1d3rZ]

:D :D

I thought he was 13:confused:

[Pappy]

he is now

[elementryder]

dang i wish mine could be that clean mud sticks to it like no other

[elementryder]

dose burgard make seff for the 450r like lt a-arms/swing arms ect

[N300exJ]

Looks good. Ive had 400ex shocks and burgard a arms on my 300ex for a few years now. what a great mod! Highly recommended. Once i get some aftermarket shocks for my 450r i plan on trying out my stock r shocks on the 300ex.

[bradley300]

pappy, i know you've heard the argument of why you shouldnt use 400ex a-arms on a 300ex, so i'm curious why you didnt anyway? did you find out something i dont know about the conversion? and did you have a chance to measure the bumpsteer with a 300ex front end and with the 400ex?

[Xeller8]

I've never heard you shouldn't use them...what have YOU heard?

[Pappy]

Bradley, I had been told by people about the 400ex arms on the 300 and it's benefits and downfalls. After discussing shocks with a few folks, I decided to take a chance and see how it worked.

We flat hammered this set up this weekend and I am happy to report it works incredibly well. Even though we have stock 400ex shocks on the quad for the moment, no real issues showed themselves.

[Pappy]

Cody did about 20 laps on a MX track and when he pulled off he said his arms hurt. I thought at first the bumpsteer issue was upon us. After another hour of riding he never complained again.

[Pappy]

He did request a steering stabilizer, but that was after doing a rough whoops section repeatedly.

[Pappy]

I would have to say the front end goes where you want it

[Pappy]

And even when it is all out of shape, no bad handling ever showed itself

[Pappy]

Cody is very pleased with the new set up

[Honda TRX250ex]

Whats codys weight and how tall is he pappy if you dont mind me asking?

[Pappy]

He is 4'9" and weighs around 115 or so. He has bulked up from riding all summer.

[Pappy]

The shocks will be here next week so the second part of the testing will begin

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2449554

[cjpoole1]

Originally posted by Pappy
Bradley, I had been told by people about the 400ex arms on the 300 and it's benefits and downfalls. After discussing shocks with a few folks, I decided to take a chance and see how it worked.

We flat hammered this set up this weekend and I am happy to report it works incredibly well. Even though we have stock 400ex shocks on the quad for the moment, no real issues showed themselves.
On Burgards site, it lists the stardard a-arms a +1 forward.
Sizes:

+1 Wide & +1 Forward
+2 Wide & +1 Forward
+3 Wide & +1 Forward

Are these the ones you are using? If so I would think that the +1 forward would help correct the bad tie-rod angle problem that most people have with 400ex a-arms on 300EX's

[bwamos]

I'm pretty sure he wen't with a +1 forward arm. I know he was talking about it previously.

[Pappy]

I could say yes but id be lying:p I will have to check them but Izzy knew what I was planning so if it is advantagous to run +1 forward then I would say thats what was sent.

New shocks are being installed now, Sparks pipe is now on...loud but seemed to add needed power.

[XCAdam89]

I thought my WB was loud! I can't imagine how loud a sparks could be!

[Pappy]

Shock installed

[Pappy]

He said that these feel much more plush and predictable over the stock 400 shocks

[Pappy]

Ofcourse it will take more riding to dial them in and level a good review on the shocks, but I think they are going to do well.

[Pappy]

He wishes he could race his 300 tomorrow uinstead of a 90:p

[bradley300]

looking good pappy!

[bwamos]

The quad is lookin good! :)
I'm jealous. ;)

[300exMarc]

Looking good Pappy, does he feel alittle more unmmffff with the Sparks on there?

[Pappy]

he said he did , but we will know more after i jet the carb and turn him loose with it

[Dan229]

Pappy,

Why did you use 400ex +1 A arms instead of +2 300ex A arms with the relocator?


Thanks,
Dan.

[Pappy]

No special reason dan other then being able to sell them easier if it didnt work as well as we hoped:D

[300ex mxracer]

im running +2 400 a arms with custom works pro series w/o the relocator. my shocks are right around 16 inches and the frame drags before the shocks bottom. is this how yours is or not?

[Pappy]

No, our bottoming thus far has ben as it should be. It may be your shocks are set up incorrectly

[300ex mxracer]

no my shocks work perfect. if i land wrong or something the frame drags the ground before the shocks bottom. they r set up to not do this but i was just wondering...

[swampfoxsc]

Your shocks are incorrect if the frame hits the ground before they bottom out.

[Dan229]

Originally posted by 300ex mxracer
im running +2 400 a arms with custom works pro series w/o the relocator. my shocks are right around 16 inches and the frame drags before the shocks bottom. is this how yours is or not?

If I read this correctly, you are not running the relocator and based on what I know about this a arm swap (which is little at this point I admit) your shocks are too long to run this setup without the relocator and (again, based on what little I know) you will either need to get a relocator or long travel a arms to make 16" shocks work correctly.

[300ex mxracer]

Originally posted by Dan229
If I read this correctly, you are not running the relocator and based on what I know about this a arm swap (which is little at this point I admit) your shocks are too long to run this setup without the relocator and (again, based on what little I know) you will either need to get a relocator or long travel a arms to make 16" shocks work correctly.

these are custom made from works made specifically for the a arms w/o the relocator. they are perfect and nothing is wrong i was just wondering. the shocks are actually shorter than 16", really about 15.2".

[300ex_#387]

Originally posted by 300ex mxracer
these are custom made from works made specifically for the a arms w/o the relocator. they are perfect and nothing is wrong i was just wondering. the shocks are actually shorter than 16", really about 15.2".

Are they custom a arms too? Because if there not then the shock length should be 14.75 to work correctly. Anyway Looks good Pappy will C&D do that rebuild for other people, or is that just a custom thing for the 300?

[Pappy]

As far as I know we are the test mule for these shocks for C&D

They will do others if these work out as we expect them to. So far they seem to be doing well, but the real tests are yet to come. Colby wouldnt want me telling you they are the greatest thing since beef jerky, and i wouldnt claim they were until we have given them a really good thrashing.

[gpd005]

Pappy, i sent you a PM

[Pappy]

Cody hit the woods tonight for some laps. He said the shocks work very good.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g162/400ex127/DSC_5886.jpg


The pipe will get removed and stock will go back on it. It makes power, sure as heck increases throttle response but its almost to much for the woods for Cody

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g162/400ex127/DSC_5887.jpg

He said he needed some seat time in the woods, all that MX racing has him used to a groomed track with sweeping tyrns..lol
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g162/400ex127/DSC_5896.jpg

[Pappy]

Oh well, a month to train for the upcoming GNCC:p

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g162/400ex127/DSC_5898.jpg

[Jersey450R]

very nice! and a good thread too!

bump for a very nice 300 :)

[Pappy]

Race Tested

Cody raced in the adult classes at a local XC race sunday and we have some issues. Some are minor and I should have caught them but working 2 shifts is taking its toll on me:p


The shocks did well, but a main sping change is needed for the woods. The issue we have discovered is with the ackerman effect (I am pretty sure that is the technical terminology) The tie rod end is creasing the lower arm badly on the right side at almost full lock. We did not notice this but we did not have the track here like what we raced on and that made a huge difference. I suspect it ripped through the powdercoat and prevented me feeling it but you can see clearly where it is making contact now after 2 full hours of XC racing.

I checked everything I could and just can not see where I can make this problem go away so I have to report this test is a bust. For MX I can only conclude that we never had any issues due to not having to go to full steering lock on any of teh tracks we have been running on the past month or so. In all honesty if we were not planning to race XC I wouldnt make a change except to shim the tie rod(its that close that it could be remedied I believe)

The shocks are not the problem and will find a home on my 400EX with the addition of a heavier main spring and a possible valving tweak.

Here are some pictures of the damage found in 2 hours on one tough track:p

[Pappy]

nice eh:p

[AtvMxRider]

So for mx what would be "Best" a 400ex a-arm and shocks or a 300ex extended a-arm and shocks?

[Pappy]

This set up worked very very well with the 400ex stock shocks. I am not blaming the 450r shocks on the new issue with clearence, but it and the tires is the only two things we changed. It could be in the a arm, but it never did this before the race so I am still not 100% positive he did not tweak something either:p That bracket could be bent and I just cant see it, once removed it could shed more light on what the deal is.(I cant see anything wrong with it )


At this point for us I will have to order some 300ex elkas and standard arms. I looked at what is on the market and stock looks like the best bet for us for now. The ASR, Full Flight etc are well priced, but I dont believe thier heim ends would last more then a few races before needing replaced at $30 each:ermm:

[Dan229]

Pappy, are you going to keep investigating this setup or just drop the issue?

[AtvMxRider]

does burgard make a 300ex extended a-arm?

[Pappy]

I just dont have the free time to try and figure it all out:(

I will have everything including the elkas here in less then 10 days and he will be back to riding. i could spend 10 days and be at the same point i am at now:p

I am almost positive it can work well, but with almost no time to test it and wait on a fix or the time to fix it myself I have to move now. Racer Productions atleast gave us a months notice this year:D

[Pappy]

Originally posted by AtvMxRider
does burgard make a 300ex extended a-arm?

yes he does, but I havent been able to get ahold of him so I cant garuntee i could have a set made with the frap style ball joint fast enough. I will have him build me up a set so i can swap them out when they are done, but time is the thing i cant buy:mad:

[Pappy]

OK, some second looks to see what if what I was seeing was happening:p (18 hours days , 5 weeks straight, 7 days a week is killing me)

[Pappy]

I think I may have an issue but I dont think its as big as I first thought. With Cody sitting on the quad it clears as well as others at full lock left

[AtvMxRider]

You can't grind the end of the stud down alittle Ken?

[Pappy]

I can, but I think there is a better fix by welding a small weld on the steering stop to keep it from going past where it should at full lock. At the point it hits , it is well past what anyone would ever need for even the sharpest turn. What i dont know is if this is caused by the ackerman effect alone or it is a combination of the 400ex/300ex parts.


I did figure that the stock 400ex shocks had us about a 1/4 inch higher with no rider and that is more then likley why we never felt it.


The hard steering was all Cody:chinese: he routed a wiring harness wrong and it was fighting him non stop.

[300ex_#387]

I've heard people running the 400ex spindles too. It is supposed to help a lot of the problems.

[Dan229]

Pappy, are those 300ex spindles on the 400 arms?

[Pappy]

300 spindles are being used. the 400ex spindles really jack up the tie rod angle

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Pappy
I think I may have an issue but I dont think its as big as I first thought. With Cody sitting on the quad it clears as well as others at full lock left


I can, but I think there is a better fix by welding a small weld on the steering stop to keep it from going past where it should at full lock. At the point it hits , it is well past what anyone would ever need for even the sharpest turn. What i dont know is if this is caused by the ackerman effect alone or it is a combination of the 400ex/300ex parts.


This is an issue on the 300ex even with stock arms and shocks. It's one of their flaws. For some reason the steering stem stops stop it sooner on one side than it does on the other.. go figure. (aka.. they didn't center it well.. lol)

On an incline, if you get the slow compression and lock the weel all the way over compressed.. and then decompress.. you're tierod will get "stuck" on the wrong sode of the a-arm.

It's a design flaw with the spindles/stem stops. They should have raised the mounts on both the spindle and the stem, imho.

It only happens on one side.. for some strange reason.. lol. Happens on everyones 300ex's that I personally know. (about a half dozen 1998-2002 300ex's).

I'm not completely convinced 300ex a-arms and shocks will fix that problem.

I just have to learned not to completely lock the wheel all the way when turning on a downslope transition that will compress the shocks a significant amount.

[Dan229]

I wonder if a JB racing stem would fix this issue?

[XCAdam89]

I have an LSR Stem on my 300, and the turning sucks to say the least. It doesn't turn all the way. Seems to be a stop holding it back.

[Pappy]

I made a few calls today nad every one I spoke with said basically what bwamos stated. This is only the 2nd 300 ive owned and the first I have modded so these quirks are new to me. (I even searched the site to see if this has been mentioned before)

A small weld on the stem will prevent this from occuring and all should be back on track

[Jersey450R]

I hope the turning radius dosent widen up too much for the woods pap...

[countypark]

Originally posted by bwamos
This is an issue on the 300ex even with stock arms and shocks. It's one of their flaws. For some reason the steering stem stops stop it sooner on one side than it does on the other.. go figure. (aka.. they didn't center it well.. lol)


This is an issue with 400EX a-arms on a 300EX, even the aftermarket ones.

I have a-arms that were made for a 300EX and the tie-rod ends do not hit at full turn.

When I ran stock 400EX a-arms the tierod ends would lock up at full turn.

I have seen aftermarket 400EX a-arms do the same thing on a 300EX.

I have even seen stock 300EX's do the same thing.

[Pappy]

I geuss the past few weeks working so hard had my head off balance:p This issue kicked me in the rear end and Ive seen it on other quads before but it just did not register. I geuss i am also looking for anything that would be negative. I was told today by someone I trust and i know has way more knowledge on teh 300 then I ever will that this is a hit and miss issue. Some 300's are affected, some arent. The stem stops will be an easy fix and I apologize if anyone got confused by me getting a bit over zealous in posting what i percieved as a huge issue(it kind of is but fixable)

[reconmaster]

i have never really had issues but then again my frames been modded for my 400ex front suspension just bushings and bearings nothing out of the usual i have had to get the top of my stem welded but its held up since man i miss riding my 300

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Jersey450R
I hope the turning radius dosent widen up too much for the woods pap...

Nah, it doesn't need much turn reduction to fix. You'll still have very tight cornering capability. Same as what you normally get.. because the one side stops by hitting the arm. The other side hits the steering stem stop just before hitting the arm. But, when at full compression if you lock the wheel to the faulty side it will allow the ball joint to move up, over, and beyond the a-arm tube, and when the suspension decompresses it gets stuck at full turn. Not a good thing when racing.

I'll have to see if I can get a couple pictures of what I'm talking about this weekend when I've got the quad out to help illustrate for those not familiar with the issue.

[Dan229]

It would be most helpful if pictures of this issue and the fix were posted.

Thanks!

[Pappy]

I will get pics hopefully tomorrow evening if I get home before dark:ermm:


I did get home early tonight, and we did practice. Cody did very well, no problems at all. The steering felt great once we fixed the incorrectly routed wiring harness:p

The lighter main springs are on thier way so hopefully by next week we can see how that changes things. Cody reported that the suspension felt really plush, but IMO it is still a touch stiff upfront. For MX its damn near dead on!


And for the record, I was trying to block Cody and give him some situations that he will encounter. (Off the record, the little sucker smoked me by taking a line over a damn boulder in tall grass:p )

[Elka83]

400ex a-arms u should really run 400ex spindels.. it dosent mess with the tie rods it makes it work better,. i ran the entire national series and my lt 400ex front end and 400ex spindles work amazing. no problems at all. doug roll at roll design told me to run the 400ex spindels. i think u should def. give it a try!

my front end
http://www.spasticdesigns.com/SDpictures/mazey300ex3.jpg
http://www.spasticdesigns.com/SDpictures/mazey300ex2.jpg

for sale.. anyone interested?

[bradley300]

i will also say that everyone on the site that likes this set up, is using the 400ex spindels. a user in ohio (i forgot his name) has tried both and said the 400ex spindles were a big improvement

[00tn300ex]

pappy.im just wondering.how much should I expect to pay for a setup like yours?

[Pappy]

It would depend on the arms and the shocks used.

The JB bracket is $110 with shipping

Arms can run from free, to $1000

Shocks could be stock 400ex or $1300 Axis.


I havent discussed pricing for the rebuilds of the 450R shocks, but I can geuss it runs around $350

[00tn300ex]

thanks pappy ill have to invest in that setup if i end up keeping my 300