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madden
08-12-2006, 05:45 PM
The only fast quad honda ever made was the 250r,with slight mods of course. The 400ex is good for wheelies and going slow,the 450r is just the same with about 10 more HP. Anyone that says an equally moded 450r will beat a Banshee lives in ther own little honda world. And to the guy that said a 400ex will beat a banshee is on crack. A 400ex is not much quicker than a piped Warrior.
Theres my 2cents:macho

outlaw450r
08-12-2006, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by madden
The only fast quad honda ever made was the 250r,with slight mods of course. The 400ex is good for wheelies and going slow,the 450r is just the same with about 10 more HP. Anyone that says an equally moded 450r will beat a Banshee lives in ther own little honda world. And to the guy that said a 400ex will beat a banshee is on crack. A 400ex is not much quicker than a piped Warrior.
Theres my 2cents:macho
You are a joke.

madden
08-12-2006, 06:00 PM
Im just stating the facts. The only downfall to the Shee is the driver has to know what he is doing. If you let off once or miss a shift your done.

dunny_mark
08-12-2006, 06:18 PM
Oh! boy! Let's start a useless thread stating ones opinion about how yamaha's are soooooo much better than honda's. Yeah!


HONDA IS #1 :devil: :macho :D

CHEVYZ
08-12-2006, 06:19 PM
What is with you guys? There is nothing so special about a shee that you should go around downing other quads. $300 in my 06 and I have not lost once to any Banshee I have raced.... no, I have not raced any full blown drag bikes, but I have raced ones set-up as decent drag bikes and have beaten them as well. I cannot understand why some people cannot just appreciate bikes other than their own for the simple reason that they don't have one or would not buy one. :ermm:

250r4life
08-12-2006, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by outlaw450r
You are a joke.

im in agreeance

250r4life
08-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by madden
The only fast quad honda ever made was the 250r,with slight mods of course. The 400ex is good for wheelies and going slow,the 450r is just the same with about 10 more HP. Anyone that says an equally moded 450r will beat a Banshee lives in ther own little honda world. And to the guy that said a 400ex will beat a banshee is on crack. A 400ex is not much quicker than a piped Warrior.
Theres my 2cents:macho

i love banshees, but youre Full of Shiz!!!

a stock 450 will beat a stock banshee, and a piped and filtered 450 will beat a piped and filtered banshee... banshees are great but it takes a bit to get them to scream... they arent slow, but a big postitive of the banshee is the fun factor- you feel like youre going a lot faster than you are... that goes for any two stroke, except for the quadzillar, where you actually feel like youre going slower than you are...

broke
08-12-2006, 07:51 PM
I agree with most of you to a point. Stock for stock, any 450 is going to hand the Banshee it's ***. Add some pipes and upgrade the filters and the gap get's closed some(traction is always an issue).

Let's race these theoretically on concrete to take traction out of the equation completely. Where the Banshee shines is the mods after that. The 450s slam head first into the Law of diminishing returns. Port both of them and the Banshee has just jumped into the lead. Keep the mods up and you are going to taper off at around 60HP on the 450s for what $3000. I can get that out of a Banshee for $1000. For $3000 you are in the 100hp range. Hell for $2000 on a Cub set-up with a set of CPIs you are around 100hp. Once you hit that 60hp mark on the 450, the reliability, seriously has to be questioned. The 100hp Cub isn't much less reliable than a stock motor.

But it still takes a good rider to make it that fast. I feel anyone can ride a 450, that's one of the reasons I want one for my wife.

madden
08-12-2006, 08:47 PM
When i say race I mean on pavement, sorry for that mixup. When you race on pavement you take the traction part out of the picture which is usually why a Banshee loses. Any of you that say Im full of sh## are entitled to your opinion as i am to mine. Here there is pretty near every sport bike except the 450 suzuki. None are stock except a 700raptor which may be interesting when moded? The only thumper that really impresses me is the yfz 450! They come off the line very fast!

Not trying to start fights but I like to here peoples opinions.:D

outlaw450r
08-13-2006, 06:09 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by madden
[B]When i say race I mean on pavement, sorry for that mixup.
If you want to race on pavement bring out the street bikes.

08-14-2006, 05:22 PM
broke knows what hes talking about, 90% of people that make these threads should study his post...lol

B450r
08-15-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by 250r4life
i love banshees, but youre Full of Shiz!!!

a stock 450 will beat a stock banshee, and a piped and filtered 450 will beat a piped and filtered banshee... banshees are great but it takes a bit to get them to scream... they arent slow, but a big postitive of the banshee is the fun factor- you feel like youre going a lot faster than you are... that goes for any two stroke, except for the quadzillar, where you actually feel like youre going slower than you are...

i'm with u on tht one 100%

tim colston
08-16-2006, 07:17 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by madden
The only fast quad honda ever made was the 250r,with slight mods of course. The 400ex is good for wheelies and going slow,the 450r is just the same with about 10 more HP. Anyone that says an equally moded 450r will beat a Banshee lives in ther own little honda world. And to the guy that said a 400ex will beat a banshee is on crack. A 400ex is not much quicker than a piped Warrior.
Theres my 2cents:macho [/QUOTE

Interesting first couple of posts. I would not start the insults so soon.

Pappy
08-16-2006, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by madden

Theres my 2cents:macho

I would like my money back.

tim colston
08-16-2006, 09:48 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^ lol only you Pappy

08-16-2006, 10:51 AM
you are a joke. you are comparing a twin cylinder 2 stroke to a single cylinder 4 stroke.

the banshee is good and fast ina straight line only. woohoo...so much fun going 300 feet and then stopping. i have drag raced before and it was fun, but give me a good trail anyday...then m y 450r and my 400ex will out run your banshee.

if banshees were so good at thsoie things, then you would see some of them on the podiums...

i think you got your moneys worth there pappy, 2 cents to find out how much of an idiot this KID really is and to put him on ht hot list is a fair deal i think...

gbcap
08-16-2006, 11:22 AM
I have a feeling this kid doesn't even have a quad, prolly sits at home wankin' it to pictures of R's and can't admit it.

the 250r is HISTORY when it comes to power. the 450r SPANKS it. ask any racer that knows what they are talking about. even if they were allowed int he pro ranks they wouldn't be.

the shee is good for one reason only, sand. it can't trail, mx or xc for ****. i have ridden alot of bikes and i would rather a 200sx then a shee anyday.

get a real quad then join the discussion. looking at your post count you prolly have been banned before. which means your a loser and just want to cause trouble. leave our ranks before you get owned again.

DEAL
08-16-2006, 03:53 PM
I've beat so many banshees I don't know where to begin.

jocolo
08-16-2006, 04:33 PM
I used to own an ATC 250R with only k&N filter 38mm carb and a Bassini pipe and use to beat Banshee's and 250R quad in drag races, Banshee's is nothing more than a quad with a street bike motor in it.

MyKe2g3
08-16-2006, 06:43 PM
This thread is useless. Unless comparing stock for stock this is an apples and oranges type of thread. You can make a banshee faster in the straight line than a 450r hands down but on trails or a course the 450 will eat it cause the banshee will more than likely fall apart and lacks the needed suspension to hang in there. I have a banshee and 3 250r's i know that my modded shee will take both of my r's on a straight but on a course the shee is toast.

broke
08-16-2006, 09:21 PM
I'm amazed how many people think the new four strokes are the end all be all of MX/XC quads. The Banshee just needs to be built right.

Stock ones don't stand a chance, but they were also designed when most of the people on this site were still riding big wheels. You just need to update to little quirks to modern standards.

My Banshee is more than capable of winning ANY MX race, just not with me on it. The pilot is just not up to the capabilities of the quad.

For the guy that said the Banshee would fall apart, WHAT?

DEAL
08-16-2006, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by broke
I'm amazed how many people think the new four strokes are the end all be all of MX/XC quads. The Banshee just needs to be built right.

Stock ones don't stand a chance, but they were also designed when most of the people on this site were still riding big wheels. You just need to update to little quirks to modern standards.

My Banshee is more than capable of winning ANY MX race, just not with me on it. The pilot is just not up to the capabilities of the quad.

For the guy that said the Banshee would fall apart, WHAT?

A properly built banshee .. being a banshee motor in a honda geometry frame..
Even then it still won't hold a candle to the new 450s.

madden
08-17-2006, 12:23 AM
I have a feeling this kid doesn't even have a quad, prolly sits at home wankin' it to pictures of R's and can't admit it.

the 250r is HISTORY when it comes to power. the 450r SPANKS it. ask any racer that knows what they are talking about. even if they were allowed int he pro ranks they wouldn't be.

the shee is good for one reason only, sand. it can't trail, mx or xc for ****. i have ridden alot of bikes and i would rather a 200sx then a shee anyday.

get a real quad then join the discussion. looking at your post count you prolly have been banned before. which means your a loser and just want to cause trouble. leave our ranks before you get owned again.(quote)

I am no kid ! I am 26 years old and love quads of any kind.I have owned or drove alot of quads, yes even the almighty 450R! Cant really say i enjoyed the experience, it wasnt much differerent than the 400ex. Just in a 2mile radius where I live, (and yes i own a house, I dont live with mommy and daddy like most of you), there are 3 Shees,yfz450,2raptors,450r,400ex,2 warriors and a bunch of 4x4s. When we all go out the banshee is always the lead dog.
The reason i came on this site was to get some info on 400ex because i am rebuilding a buddies to make it faster which will still be slow.
they say everything is bigger in Texas, mabey Hondas are faster in the States cause there usually slower up here.
If you guys want some Banshee info go check out BansheeHQ. It could be a real eye opener.
And yes 400exs and 450rs will seem fast if all you ever drove was your dads 450 foreman:ermm:

broke
08-17-2006, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by DEAL
A properly built banshee .. being a banshee motor in a honda geometry frame..
Even then it still won't hold a candle to the new 450s.

Well, I ride both quite often and I would beg to differ on that one. I have yet to find a YFZ450 that I was even impressed with. I have no experience with anything other than a stock 450R. It's not that they are bad bikes, but the geometry of the Outlaw frame just suits me better, and everyone else who has ever ridden it. The only thing the 450 really have is a little more torque down low.

We can argue this all day, but it all come down to opinion and personal prefence.

Mxjunkie
08-18-2006, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by DEAL
A properly built banshee .. being a banshee motor in a honda geometry frame..
Even then it still won't hold a candle to the new 450s.

:confused:

broke
08-18-2006, 02:38 PM
A properly built banshee .. being a banshee motor in a honda geometry frame..

Most of the new four strokers, don't really have a clue when it comes to Banshee building. They just buy whatever costs the most, bolt it on and they think they have the best available. It's foolish, but the big factories and the aftermarket have based their futures on it.

Go for it, it's not my money so I don't really care. But to write off what a Banshee can become is what will have you chasing one down a track. I love when people come up to see what the Hell just passed them. I wish I was a better rider to really showcase what my quad is capable of.


The top quad on this page is mine.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202323&perpage=15&pagenumber=8

EX lvr
08-18-2006, 06:48 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by broke
[B]Most of the new four strokers, don't really have a clue when it comes to Banshee building.

i agree, everyone seems to say that the 450's that mommy an daddy bought them are the s''t and unbeatable. i dont care what anyone says ill take my banshee or 250r over any lil 4poke. i have a 300ex for the trails but wen i want to go fast or have fun ill ride a 2 stroke.

madden
08-18-2006, 08:49 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by broke
[B]Most of the new four strokers, don't really have a clue when it comes to Banshee building. They just buy whatever costs the most, bolt it on and they think they have the best available. It's foolish, but the big factories and the aftermarket have based their futures on it.

Go for it, it's not my money so I don't really care. But to write off what a Banshee can become is what will have you chasing one down a track. I love when people come up to see what the Hell just passed them.


I agree with you 100%! Nice banshee by the way.

DEAL
08-20-2006, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by Mxjunkie
:confused:


Your getting passed?

jdwxv3
08-20-2006, 06:57 AM
I race XC and I can honestly say I have never ever been beat by a banshee. In fact we have maybe one or two per race(out of 150-200)....that is for a reason..... They suck in the woods. You people claim to be better riders so you can "handle" the banshee or you "know" how to ride it...I call bs. I have NEVER seen a banshee do good in any race besides drag races and TT. They are just a bad design....oh yea a Missouri pro raced one a few years back and he broke the damn thing in half lol. Give it up, I am glad they are finally going out of production so as time goes on I have to read less and less about some of you people and how bad ***** you are. Later, Josh

broke
08-20-2006, 09:02 AM
Wow, there is a narrow minded point of view. Just because the 250r finished it's production run in 89, does that mean it was a bad design. It's your opinion and that fine, but to think the new 450s are the best ever made, that's foolish. I'm not going to argue the Banshees drawbacks, it has alot. But to think the 450s don't have any is asinine. I built the motor on mine to have power pretty much from right off idle to a top end you will NEVER have.

Let's face it, the only reason the 450s are the dominate bikes in MX is because they are really the only things aloud to race(production). Let an aftermarket chassis with whatever motor race the outcome might be different, but this wouldn't benefit the factories in anyway who really do call the shots. I know of a 250rish bike with a KTM motor that will spank just about anything lined up next to it.

If you don't like the Banshee so much, stay out of the forum. It was your choice to enter here, not ours.

08-20-2006, 09:11 AM
wow alot of people seem to be gettin pretty pissed off what i was reading thru the thread, i guess i am gonan head out and haul major *** on my banshee and 310R :D

broke
08-20-2006, 09:22 AM
Why would they chose to ride this when they have EVERY quad ever made to chose from.

http://www.duncanracing.com/news/index.phtml?nid=70

Let's see who took what here.

The team of Doug Eichner (USA) and John Mitchell (Scotland) took home the championship with a commanding lead. By the end of the race, the Eichner/Mitchell duo had won by 6 laps, a tremendous accomplishment given the competition. Eichner and Mitchell choose to compete aboard a Martin Fletcher prepared Yamaha Banshee

In 4 th place was Team DRI / ATV World's Dave Baldwin (Great Britain), Ricky Tordoff (Great Britain) and Joe Maessen (Netherlands). The team piloted a Yamaha YFZ 450.

Finishing in the 6 th place spot was Team DRI / ATV World team of Paul Rowlands (Great Brittan), Andy Lagzdins (USA) and Cale Downing (USA) aboard a Honda TRX 450R.

Don't be a fool to think that a properly built Banshee can't win.

jdwxv3
08-20-2006, 12:58 PM
I said banshee has its place lol. and it is not on an mx or xc course. besides not many people can afford a "hand built banshee". And dont get me wrong. I like banshees for certain kinds of riding. I used to own one. I myself prefere the yfz even though I own a 450r. I would like to have a banshee for drags duneds and maybe tt but in the woods I will take a 450 any day.

broke
08-21-2006, 04:00 AM
Believe it or not I paid less for my hand built Banshee than your 450r cost new. I prefer the Banshee for all types of riding, you really just have to learn how to ride them.


You people claim to be better riders so you can "handle" the banshee or you "know" how to ride it...I call bs.

I'm not going to argue the fact you need to be stronger to throw one around. To tell you the truth, it makes you stronger by just riding it.

I love this thing just for the thrill factor, These motors have a top end that's hard to duplicate. I am giving up a little low end torque to the four strokes, but a 4mm 12 port RZ motor is a little different animal than a stock powerplant.

I've only owned Banshees, so that's all I ever really learned how to ride. Don't get me wrong, I really want to buy a 450 to take my wife riding with me.

outlaw450r
08-21-2006, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by broke

I've only owned Banshees, so that's all I ever really learned how to ride. Don't get me wrong, I really want to buy a 450 to take my wife riding with me. [/B]
Then your wife will be faster than you.:D

jdwxv3
08-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Lol, your banshee is not like what they have. And you say you have less in your "built" banshee than I have in my new 450. That is not what you said in this post.


Originally posted by broke
I make a run, read the plug, change what needs to changed and ride. It takes five minutes.

I have close to $20,000 in to my quad. I'm a little past leave it rich and just ride. I built a high end motor that needs a little bit of love quite often. Sure it might be a pain in the ***, but most people will never know what it's like to ride something like this. If you don't want to take the time to make sure your bike runs the best it can, great, but I will never be like that.

I get your point 450's are for girls lol. Think what you want I guess everyone has an opinion. I just think the whole title of the thread "honda's are a joke" kinda opened the conversation up for discussions like this. Niether one of us will win the argument. Maybe we can talk later in a thread that actually means something. I am tired of bickering back in forth. The banshee and the 450 both have there places but the 450 better suits us little sissy girly types



:rolleyes: :eek: Later, Josh

jdwxv3
08-21-2006, 04:17 PM
Oh yea and a banshee did not win the 12 hr race it went yfz yfz then Kawasaki. I belive eichner and mitchell ended 5th or so. They lost a flywheel?? I hear the race was wide open 100+ mile an hour strait aways. The other team Duncan supported was on an 06 450R amd they lost a tranny. Later, Josh

broke
08-21-2006, 08:46 PM
Lol, your banshee is not like what they have. And you say you have less in your "built" banshee than I have in my new 450. That is not what you said in this post.

Actually I have a Shafer Performance Outlaw Chassis. It's as close as you can get. Long travel 250r front end, no link rear.

I worded my previous comment wrong, there is $20,000 in my Banshee, I paid $6000. I stand corrected.


Then your wife will be faster than you.

This I liked.

08-22-2006, 03:49 AM
so your banshee has a an aftermarket chassis that no doubt has different handling capcbilities than a normal banshee. And having a HONDA Long travel 250r front end, i am sure that makes it a better handling machine.

if the banshee is so perfect in stock form, why does it have a HONDA Long travel 250r front end? :huh

If you spend the money on anything, it can be made better than the next guys...until he spends more oney than you :cuss:

broke
08-22-2006, 03:31 PM
I went back to reread my posts to see where i said the Banshees were so perfect. I had someone ealrlier catch me in a misquote, and I admitted it so I didn't want to make the same error twice. I think I admitted multiple times that Banshees are far from perfect.

What I am getting at is that when you build a Banshee with the amount of money you will spend on a built 450, you have a very capable machine. I have watched some of the QOTM winners and quite a few at the track, they are Big dollar 450s with ever bolt on known to man. These are basically stock frames(some gusseted) with aftermarket everything. They probably cost more in the end than mine with the aftermarket chassis. That's cool, but you can't really compare a 20 year old poor design to the new crop of thumpers. Now take the same amount of money and build both and you will find you have two very comparable quads in the end, just different means to the same ends.

To me the Banshee motor is really what makes the quad shine. I will admit, I did everything to my motor that I could, but in the end I had 80ish hp for around $2000, and it's very docile to ride.

I'm not going to argue the fact that the thumpers are taking over, I'm just saying that there are still some older designs out there that have 20 years of tinkering to make them better than there ever were stock.

I would prefer to make this a friendly exchange of opinions. Too many people are here to condem the Banshee, I have never said the 450s suck, I just said they aren't all they're cracked up to be.

And the girly quad comment, was a little idiotic. What I really meant was that the 450s are very easy quads to ride and very reliable to boot. My quad is little much for my wife to ride.

bansheerider4
08-22-2006, 05:12 PM
man i think everyone that is downing banshees i think they must have had a horrible experience gettin beat by one.:rolleyes: i mean dont get me wrong i always wanted a 450 but face it you dont get the feeling and and adreniline rush off a stock 450 like you do off a stock banshee(well at least i dont)


if the banshee is so perfect in stock form, why does it have a HONDA Long travel 250r front end?

and you can ask the same question to other people if they think there 450s are so perfect why do they change things up on it?:huh jsut a thought

hondaboy400ex55
08-26-2006, 09:38 AM
hey what these kids that there mommy and dady bout them there 450s well the banshee paved the way for the 450`s

the 450s wouldent be the way they r with out the banshee

troutman561
08-26-2006, 01:30 PM
I'm not downing the banshee cause I like them but im think the 250r and 400ex paved the way for the current 450's...

kawi_kfx13
08-26-2006, 02:42 PM
everyone who has a banshee thnks there so fast..and ya some are...but theres better quads out there to..i ride alot of hondas.. my 416ex beats a stock banshee ez...i mean alot is the rider...and if the rider sucks then the quads gona suck...honda is dependable thats one thng i like about them

broke
08-26-2006, 04:02 PM
This thread has gone downhill, but it's still filled with interesting opinions. I think I have made it clear that I am pro Banshee. But one thing the four stroke fans seem to lack on is admitting the flaws of their bikes. I have admitted time and again that the Banshee has many flaws. All these opinions have been is negative Banshee comments, but this can go both ways.

The Banshee(stock) has horrible geometry and an engine that has never heard of low end. Fixable with a new frame and a set of cylinders.

Let's not forget the YFZs crank issues, or the battery issues. Or the fact that not everyone fits well on those little things.

Do we dare get into the Z400 frames? I'll leave that alone.

The Honda seems to have the least flaws, just an engine that needs quite a bit of work to get much more out of. How about the looks factor, not one of the 450r's strong points.

You are right though, some Banshees are not fast. Yet the fast ones CAN NOT be touched by any other quad. 100hp+ motors are very common in the Banshee world with much smaller motors than the thumpers, can any other quad claim that? Come to think of it, 60hp is hard for a thumper to achieve, childs play for a Banshee.

I will admit that the rider makes or breaks the Banshee. It takes a skilled rider to push them to their limit.

08-26-2006, 04:22 PM
ill say this again, 90% of people on this forum shoudl study broke's post....again and again!

you sound like a smart man

gbcap
08-26-2006, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by broke
Why would they chose to ride this when they have EVERY quad ever made to chose from.

http://www.duncanracing.com/news/index.phtml?nid=70

Let's see who took what here.

The team of Doug Eichner (USA) and John Mitchell (Scotland) took home the championship with a commanding lead. By the end of the race, the Eichner/Mitchell duo had won by 6 laps, a tremendous accomplishment given the competition. Eichner and Mitchell choose to compete aboard a Martin Fletcher prepared Yamaha Banshee


Don't be a fool to think that a properly built Banshee can't win.

they choose the banshee cause they have to....or you read it...the would be on a 450r.

Why is the Banshee still your machine of choice for competing in the Ponte De Voux? Well, we have so much time invested in that Banshee and we know what it takes to make it work and make it win – I’d actually rather ride a Honda 450R, but my co-pilot that I ride with, John - he’s sponsored by Yamaha over in England, so we pretty much have to ride a Yamaha. The YFZ 450…….we have not quite had enough time on it to work the bugs out of that - it’s fast and it works good and everything, but it has little problems. Tavis Cain and Chad Lohr have run it over the last couple of years and they’ve had some problems…..but they’ve been fast when they didn’t have problems! But we have just had so much time on the banshee and just know what it takes to make it win.

http://www.atvriders.com/interviews/dougeichner2006.html

gbcap
08-26-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by broke
This thread has gone downhill, but it's still filled with interesting opinions. I think I have made it clear that I am pro Banshee. But one thing the four stroke fans seem to lack on is admitting the flaws of their bikes. I have admitted time and again that the Banshee has many flaws. All these opinions have been is negative Banshee comments, but this can go both ways.

The Banshee(stock) has horrible geometry and an engine that has never heard of low end. Fixable with a new frame and a set of cylinders.

Let's not forget the YFZs crank issues, or the battery issues. Or the fact that not everyone fits well on those little things.

Do we dare get into the Z400 frames? I'll leave that alone.

The Honda seems to have the least flaws, just an engine that needs quite a bit of work to get much more out of. How about the looks factor, not one of the 450r's strong points.

You are right though, some Banshees are not fast. Yet the fast ones CAN NOT be touched by any other quad. 100hp+ motors are very common in the Banshee world with much smaller motors than the thumpers, can any other quad claim that? Come to think of it, 60hp is hard for a thumper to achieve, childs play for a Banshee.

I will admit that the rider makes or breaks the Banshee. It takes a skilled rider to push them to their limit.

i would be willing to bet....that a 450r with a 55hp quad...that isn't hard(2k most)...could keep with a 100hp banshee (what 5k+) till 50mph. then after that its a two stroke world anyway. plus the banshee has 2 cylinders...with a twin on a 450 it could easily get to 100 hp.

broke
08-26-2006, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by gbcap
i would be willing to bet....that a 450r with a 55hp quad...that isn't hard(2k most)...could keep with a 100hp banshee (what 5k+) till 50mph. then after that its a two stroke world anyway. plus the banshee has 2 cylinders...with a twin on a 450 it could easily get to 100 hp.

Well, interesting arguement and valid to a point. A twin 450 would be a 900, they have Banshees that big, but I don't even want to get into 200hp machines, they are just drag specific.

$5,000 for 100hp? What have you been building? Check out CP Industries. They build a set of cylinder for the Banshee called Cubs. 100hp can pretty much be had from jugs that are less than $1000. Five grand is getting into the big mm strokers. They have 4mm Cubs putting out 115hp. Check out Planet Sand sometime to see the fastest on the planet. There is a YFZ on there putting out 61 and 41 ftlbs, that will probably be at 65 be the time they are done.

I don't blame Duncan for wanting his guys on a 450. It just makes sense from a business aspect to have your new products on display and winning, that's what sponsorships are for. Everyone knows the Banshee is well figured out, they had 20 years to do it.

You are right that 2 strokes are the top end monsters, but that doesn't mean that they can't pull down low. My motor was specifically built to run hard in tight quarters. I will admit that it doesn't share many parts with a stock Banshee but it's based off it's motor.

We can argue this all day long, but I will maintain that the Banshee's day is not done. There are still the dinosaur holdouts like myself that will never be satisfied with the way a 4 stroke pulls, Banshee;s just have the thrill factor that nothing else can match.

08-26-2006, 08:22 PM
more real talk from broke ^^^^

gbcap
08-27-2006, 01:57 AM
are you his life partner....?

jk. but you back him pretty hard core.

i won't say banshees aren't fun. and have thier place. but it aint in the 'normal' racing world. they have long outlved thier stay. hell, if the 250r cant even survive anymore there is no way the banshee can.

250r4life
08-27-2006, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by gbcap

the 250r is HISTORY when it comes to power. the 450r SPANKS it. ask any racer that knows what they are talking about. even if they were allowed int he pro ranks they wouldn't be.


that is definately one of the least intelligent posts i have read on here...

"the world is full of stupid people"

250r4life
08-27-2006, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by troutman561
I'm not downing the banshee cause I like them but im think the 250r and 400ex paved the way for the current 450's...

took the words out of my mouth... although i wouldnt have said 400ex in the statement

250r4life
08-27-2006, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by gbcap
i would be willing to bet....that a 450r with a 55hp quad...that isn't hard(2k most)...could keep with a 100hp banshee (what 5k+) till 50mph. then after that its a two stroke world anyway. plus the banshee has 2 cylinders...with a twin on a 450 it could easily get to 100 hp.

yet another one of the lesser intelligent posts that i have read...

250r4life
08-27-2006, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by gbcap


i won't say banshees aren't fun. and have thier place. but it aint in the 'normal' racing world. they have long outlved thier stay. hell, if the 250r cant even survive anymore there is no way the banshee can.

man, thats 3 pretty unintelligent posts in one subject...

it has nothing to do with if the 250r can survive... its not as simple as all that...

broke
08-27-2006, 06:55 AM
they choose the banshee cause they have to....or you read it...the would be on a 450r.

Obviously you didn't read that quite the same way as me. They can ride any bike they want, but they have the best chance on a Banshee. They weren't forced to ride it. To me he pretty much said the Banshee had the least chance of breaking down.

gbcap
08-27-2006, 07:45 AM
ummm....it says his riding partner is sponsored by yamaha, so they have to ride something yamaha, and the only reason they chose the banshee over the yfz is seat time and experience.

gbcap
08-27-2006, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by 250r4life
yet another one of the lesser intelligent posts that i have read...

if it is so stupid...explain. *******.

gbcap
08-27-2006, 07:49 AM
the 250r is HISTORY when it comes to power. the 450r SPANKS it. ask any racer that knows what they are talking about. even if they were allowed int he pro ranks they wouldn't be.


Originally posted by 250r4life
that is definately one of the least intelligent posts i have read on here...

"the world is full of stupid people"



how is that unintelligent? talk to ANY top level racer and they would take thier 450r over a 250r ANY DAY. my pops has a 250r. they are kick ***. just dont even compare to the 450's anymore.

and by the way, go **** yourself, call me stupid, you have no clue who your talking to.

troutman561
08-27-2006, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by 250r4life
took the words out of my mouth... although i wouldnt have said 400ex in the statement

I only say 400ex because it was the first "powerful" 4 stroke....

broke
08-27-2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by gbcap
ummm....it says his riding partner is sponsored by yamaha, so they have to ride something yamaha, and the only reason they chose the banshee over the yfz is seat time and experience.

No offense, but to me the 450s are all the same. I don't care which one you have, it is only marginally different than the others. They pretty much became what the bikes are, all the same bikes different colors. I have ridden just about every bike out there and they all feel the same.

Maybe they could have ridden the YFZ, who knows. The fact remains that they didn't. Seat time and experience are a viable arguement, proven track record may be another.

jdwxv3
08-27-2006, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by broke
No offense, but to me the 450s are all the same. I don't care which one you have, it is only marginally different than the others. They pretty much became what the bikes are, all the same bikes different colors. I have ridden just about every bike out there and they all feel the same.

Maybe they could have ridden the YFZ, who knows. The fact remains that they didn't. Seat time and experience are a viable arguement, proven track record may be another.

So what class do all you banshee racers race? What Series and what style. I want to look up some results because the banshees around here in the MHSC Missouri Hare Scramble Series get whipped pretty bad. I just want to see how banshees are fairing in other sereis's across the US. I know Doug Eichner can ride one fast but he could ride a 300ex faster on most tracks than all of us debating in here:( See ya, Josh

broke
08-27-2006, 11:37 AM
While I agree with you that Eichner can be faster than any of us on a 300ex, it kind of makes you comment about checking race results null and void. If he can win on any bike, who cares what won, it comes down to who won.

I would be willing to bet my Banshee is faster than yours, and handles at least as well. But I don't race often enough to get good, but that's the shortcomings of the pilot, not the bike. With something a simple as a swap of pipes, tires, and spacers, I can take this from MX to XC to the dunes. The broad spectrum of riding you can do with a Banshee and the thrill of the midrange hit is what all Banshee riders are after.

I'll be waiting anxiously for your reply.

kickin440
08-27-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by broke
Well, interesting arguement and valid to a point. A twin 450 would be a 900, they have Banshees that big, but I don't even want to get into 200hp machines, they are just drag specific.

$5,000 for 100hp? What have you been building? Check out CP Industries. They build a set of cylinder for the Banshee called Cubs. 100hp can pretty much be had from jugs that are less than $1000. Five grand is getting into the big mm strokers. They have 4mm Cubs putting out 115hp. Check out Planet Sand sometime to see the fastest on the planet. There is a YFZ on there putting out 61 and 41 ftlbs, that will probably be at 65 be the time they are done.

I don't blame Duncan for wanting his guys on a 450. It just makes sense from a business aspect to have your new products on display and winning, that's what sponsorships are for. Everyone knows the Banshee is well figured out, they had 20 years to do it.

You are right that 2 strokes are the top end monsters, but that doesn't mean that they can't pull down low. My motor was specifically built to run hard in tight quarters. I will admit that it doesn't share many parts with a stock Banshee but it's based off it's motor.

We can argue this all day long, but I will maintain that the Banshee's day is not done. There are still the dinosaur holdouts like myself that will never be satisfied with the way a 4 stroke pulls, Banshee;s just have the thrill factor that nothing else can match.

I am curious about the 61 and 41ftlbs. 41 seems kinda low to me my 450r showed 46 and had 38ftlbs. Any ideas why it is that low with that kind of hp? not arguing just curious.

broke
08-27-2006, 01:07 PM
It may be something as simple as a dyno that just reads low. Another issues is that it is a nitrous motor, lower compression will come into play also.


it was putting out 61 hp 41 flbs.but trying some differant porting so going for some better numbers.it was 85 hp and 50 something on a 30 shot.

It's a pretty mean YFZ.

brapbrap13
08-27-2006, 01:11 PM
wowzers.

Flodies400ex
08-27-2006, 01:34 PM
this so funny lol all banshees and 450s are all good bikes and everybody has opinion about each bike but over all they are all great machines and it just depends on the rider and shifts right when you drag or in the wood or trials or even dunes and it takes a little mroe skill to ride a banshee because it just wants to go because i rode 1 and it was quick then i rode a 450ER and its even quicker but anyways they are all greats bikes and I ONLY GOT beat by two banshees and they had a hoel lot of **** done to there motors but yea this is a dumb about HONDAS ARE A JOKE wt fman read alittle mroe about honda then you want smack talk to everybody lol

250r4life
08-27-2006, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by gbcap
if it is so stupid...explain. *******.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by gbcap
i would be willing to bet....that a 450r with a 55hp quad...that isn't hard(2k most)...could keep with a 100hp banshee (what 5k+) till 50mph. then after that its a two stroke world anyway. plus the banshee has 2 cylinders...with a twin on a 450 it could easily get to 100 hp.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

alright... i normally wouldnt explain myslef, but obviously by your posts i can see you are not one of the more intelligent people to roam the earth... so i will go ahead and tell ya why your post was so stupid...

one- a 55 hp R will get smoked by 100hp banshee from the get go... it wont be close the whole way and the banshee will just continue to distance itself from the R, as well as getting the holeshot if the rider knows how to ride...

two- it doesnt take 5k to get a banshee to 100 hp...

three- your twin cylinder basis makes no sense whatsoever... yes its a twin but it still is smoking the 450 with less cc's... alright, so we have a couple different options... take away one of the banshees cylinders, and you'll have a 175cc quad- i sure hope the 450 could beat it... however, if we were to remain with the same displacement and make the banshee a single cylinder 350 two stroke, it would still smoke the 450s... and making the 450 a twin would be a 900, which would be nearly three times the banshee... anyways, i dont need to go into this any further... your argument is completely without basis...

“What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent answer did you approach anything even close to an answer. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having heard it. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul”.

250r4life
08-27-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by gbcap
you have no clue who your talking to.

"you dont know who youre messing with man, youre gunna pay for this..." ha ha ha ha


let me guess... youre the best quad rider ever... or let me guess, youre the strongest guy and best fighter ever... or youre in the mafia... and im gunna pay dearly for questioning your all-knowing posts...


i know exactly who i am talking to- another unintelligent poster...

250r4life
08-27-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by gbcap
how is that unintelligent? talk to ANY top level racer and they would take thier 450r over a 250r ANY DAY. my pops has a 250r. they are kick ***. just dont even compare to the 450's anymore.

and by the way, go **** yourself, call me stupid, you have no clue who your talking to.

just further proof of how intelligent you are... or arent... :D

AtvMxRider
08-27-2006, 07:28 PM
:ermm:

broke
08-27-2006, 07:30 PM
This thread has hit a new level of uninformininity( yes, I'm making up words). There are no words in the English language that could express what this thread turned into. At first it was stupid attacks on just quads, but now it's stupid attacks on other people.

I'm done.

jdwxv3
08-27-2006, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by broke
This thread has hit a new level of uninformininity( yes, I'm making up words). There are no words in the English language that could express what this thread turned into. At first it was stupid attacks on just quads, but now it's stupid attacks on other people.

I'm done.

For once I agree with broke lol. I am done to. The entertainment value of this thread is over anyway. See you in the forums guys, and just rember we all share a common intrest in riding quads.....weather they sound like weedeaters or race cars.

See ya, Josh

flip73
08-28-2006, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by 250r4life
quote:
"What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent answer did you approach anything even close to an answer. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having heard it. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul”.

aaaahahahaha, that's the funniest freakin movie! Just caught some of it last night while I was flipping and I saw that exact part - love it! "Ok...a simple 'no' would have been fine..." aaaahahahaha

As for the Honda / Yamaha thing, geez, can't we all just get along? I've had more bikes and quads than I can count, they all have good and bad points. The new 450's are great bikes, and no one ever can knock the 250r's - a little dough in one of them makes a real fun ride. Banshee's are pretty tough to keep up with in a drag, but everything is beatable. I have a little green in mine and it's a real fun trail bike that holds it's own when it opens up. I know I've handed some *** out, but I've been embarrassed in races too. Whatever. One guy I ride with is on a older 400ex with a pipe and minor bolt on's and he freakin rips on that thing - it's far from the fastest quad around, and in reality it's one of the slowest in our buch of riders. There are certainly faster quads, but this guy rides the piss out of that thing. I can blow his doors off in a drag but ANYWHERE else he kills me because he's a better rider. Either way, we all ride and have a good time. We're on Honda's, Yamaha's and Suzuki's - we don't argue about which is better. I guess we're all the fastest nicest quad out there, right? Better means different things to different people, they're all good machines. Ride whatcha got and have fun :p

headache
09-22-2006, 12:37 PM
each machine has its stong points. I own a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke. I love my 400ex because of its low end torque, and it's easy to just put around on. But hell it barely and i mean barely out runs my 200cc Blaster in a drag race. As soon as i do a little more work to the blaster, it will be faster. Now going around a track i have to work alot harder to keep the same speed as on the 400. Because the low end power isn't there and you are constantly shifting or clutching the 2 stroke. But hey, the powerband and topend rush of a 2 stroke is hard to duplicate. A Banshee can made to outrun anthing else in a straight line. But you gotta get used to riding such a beast...

weekendracer91
09-22-2006, 03:46 PM
yup i had a banshee for about six months and it did about 91 and i traded it for a 440ex and the honda blows the doors off of it!

yea the banshee would win in top end but out of the hole tell that banshee good night!

thats my 2 cents

broke
09-22-2006, 06:37 PM
I was hoping this thread would work it's way off the first page, but it hasn't.

I will go on record as one of the few that will still defend the Banshee. But, at the same time will also admit it's weaknesses.

It's hard to critisize a quad that was designed 20 years ago, I guess we should admire it purely for still being around. Sure it's suspension sucks, the motor has no low end and they aren't the easiest to tune.

But get one in the hands of someone that knows how to build and tune one and it's going to be hard to beat it in most environments.

Most of it's vices are easily rectified for very little money short of the frame. But the frames exist also.

I have no idea what the top speed of mine is, I can just say it's faster than ANY four stroke I have ever lined up with. I'm not talking about a 300 ft race, although with the right tires you can just about dead hook one with the correct set-up.

They are harder to ride, I'm not going to argue that. But they are very rewarding to ride and the motor has more thrill factor built into it than any four stroke can ever hope for.

250r4life
09-22-2006, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by broke
I was hoping this thread would work it's way off the first page, but it hasn't.



.

They are harder to ride, I'm not going to argue that. But they are very rewarding to ride and the motor has more thrill factor built into it than any four stroke can ever hope for.

agreed

grim one
09-26-2006, 03:10 PM
the thing is, a banshee motor can be modded to get almost unlimited hp#S, and still be reilable, while the 4 pokes, can only go so far, and at a BIG reliabality cost, the banshee is the speed kind when mooded, thats a fact

ever wonder why a 4 poke can nEVEr win a race like pikes peak?

250r4life
09-26-2006, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by grim one
the thing is, a banshee motor can be modded to get almost unlimited hp#S, and still be reilable, while the 4 pokes, can only go so far, and at a BIG reliabality cost, the banshee is the speed kind when mooded, thats a fact

ever wonder why a 4 poke can nEVEr win a race like pikes peak?

reliability and modified banshees dont really go together... of course there are exceptions, but...

any time you mod something, that added power wears things out a lot quicker...

grim one
09-26-2006, 07:15 PM
no, a high hp 450 is a ticking time bomb

a high hp banshee will last alot longer, and will cost less when it comes timer for a rebuild, but yes any time you mod a motor the reliablilty goes down,, and a banshee motor when taken care of will last forever
you need to get your facts staright

ya see the 450s cylinder waLLS ARE Pretty much punched out from the factory and are very thin,, they require as much or in some cases MORE rebuilds than 2 stroker

and in case yu dont know i have a banshee and a yfz, love them both, but each one has its own good and bad points

esr250r86
09-27-2006, 04:39 PM
Yeah, Ok!dip****:mad:

Xater
09-27-2006, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by EXking
Okay I have one question for you guys that think that 2 strokes are more reliable, How come cars arent two stroke if they are so much better and dont try to come up with some stupid excuse.

No offense Michael!:D

lol a 2 sroke car will get like 1 mpg and woulent last as long as 4 stoke motors that are designed to go for like 300k miles.

2 stroke motors are more reliale when there highlt modded also alot cheeper to rebuild.

oh yeah do do make 2 stroke diesel motors so they do make 2 stroke vehicles...

250r4life
09-27-2006, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by EXking
Okay I have one question for you guys that think that 2 strokes are more reliable, How come cars arent two stroke if they are so much better and dont try to come up with some stupid excuse.

No offense Michael!:D

cuz they would be too fast and people wouldnt be able to handle the new ability to go faster than ever before :)

grim one
09-27-2006, 06:05 PM
I would rather throw in a a new plug , piston are rings every so oFTEN , all in a few hours of work, in lue oF a timing chain, cam ,valves etc and at a much higher cost,,

AND ITS Funny that the 450 dirt bikes new a re-build like every 10-15 houres, while the quad guys think they can go on forever with no rebuild,,, what do you think they made them betetr when they stuffed them into a quad chassis? LOL,, the older 4 pokes like the 400ex and ra[ptor etc will last forever,, but the new 450s are a different bread,,, and they wont last that long with out rebiulds,, and aGAIN might as well unload your bank account

450rJam
09-27-2006, 06:23 PM
2 strokes are a blast to ride, wrong gear ? feather the clutch hit the power band and damn..................
but 4 strokes dont need clutch work, they just torque out.
check the latest street rockets and talk some more 2 stroke.
want to beat a banshee ? drop in a hayabusa in anything.
they are all fun to ride and in a drag race "he who has most $$ can go the fastest"
I sold my 250r (still miss the handleing)
bought my 450r and love it.
I have been beat and have beaten banshee's and had fun doing both.
some of these posts remind me of the news, the negative bashing seems to be popular.
not many speak of the good things.
ride what you like and let others ride what they like.
ITS ALL ABOUT THE GOOD TIMES.

broke
09-27-2006, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by EXking
Okay you guys all must be on crack because I have a stock motor and I have beat piped banshees up comp at glamis. So dont even start to tell me usless junk like that and If you want to start on reliability then just go and ride your spark pug eaters and keep busy replacing your top ends just about every season. Dont listen to these guys hondas are the fastest and are the most reliable ask any good mechanic.:mad:

I give you credit, you make me laugh.

Spark plug eaters, I go through around 10 a year. OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH, 20 bucks down the drain, you got us there.MORON

Top ends, I'm on the same 80 hp top end for the second year. MORON

I'm sorry I just can't take **** from a 400ex rider. I can't argue the fact they are reliable. They should be, the motor is pretty close to the same one in my lawn tractor.

It really is a great motor, but not much more than a boat anchor. That have to be the most lethagic motor on the planet. Talk about a lazy revver.

If you ever want to ride fast, give me a call.




Okay I have one question for you guys that think that 2 strokes are more reliable, How come cars arent two stroke if they are so much better and dont try to come up with some stupid excuse.

Try EPA standards. MORON

450rJam
09-28-2006, 04:38 PM
talk about modding for speed try to hang with a sabertooth 250r
like I said he who has the most $$ can go fastest.
google the sabertooth, there is also a 500cc version.

CHEVYZ
09-28-2006, 04:45 PM
A local drag racing "Company" is building a 1200r (250r with twin, maxxed out Sabertooth 500cc engines on it). Umm... I think it should be pretty fast.:D

headache
09-28-2006, 09:11 PM
i haven't put in a sparkplug in so long it's pathetic. if your motor is tuned properly you won't foul plugs in a 2 stroke. Some people just don't know what preventative maintenance is... or your just a damn ***** that don't know how to ride it, therefore your better off just riding a 4 stroke anyway.

And my blaster is on it's last bore .080 over for a year now with no problems what so ever. I'm about to re-ring it and go another year, then replace piston and rings and go another year. I've got at least 30 hours on this thing in the last year. and i don't putt around either.

250r4life
09-29-2006, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by headache
i haven't put in a sparkplug in so long it's pathetic..

odd... i never foul mine, but i like to switch them out about daily... worst case at the start of every trip to the dunes... but i never leave them in there too long... and like i said- i dont foul plugs...

09-29-2006, 09:43 AM
my banshee never fouled plugs....but my R goes thru them like mad, if i just let it idle for too long itll go hru a plug, or if i just put it around...i know a properly tuned 2 stroke wont go thru plugs, but i dont wanna lean it out too much and go thru a piston...what controls idle to 1/2 throttle and ill just lean that out....thanx for any input

250r4life
09-29-2006, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Honda86
...what controls idle to 1/2 throttle and ill just lean that out....thanx for any input

idle jet and air screw...

sandmanblue
09-29-2006, 03:36 PM
Yeah, Banshees are fast, that's why they dominate so many racing events these days.... oh wait, I meant 450's. nevermind...

450rJam
09-29-2006, 05:29 PM
you have got to post pics of the twin sabertooth.
Its going to take a crazy man to point that thing down the drags

Rancher2005
09-29-2006, 06:26 PM
i too would like to say that you are full of sh**:D

450rJam
09-30-2006, 07:04 AM
I wasnt calling b.s.
I was calling it crazy, and if it exists I want to see it
(a video of it breaking a land speed record will do)

CHEVYZ
09-30-2006, 09:08 AM
Haha, yeah, I think it should rip. No bull****. He is expecting some really low times with it.. haha, go figure. The people are known as CP Customs and are known to build some of the fastest bikes in the country... as an example, their Blaster is supposedly the fastest in the country with their custom build. I will have plenty of pictures. I won't be getting them until sometime in Oct. (13-15 or so), though... which will be for the Clash of the Titans. :D

broke
09-30-2006, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by sandmanblue
Yeah, Banshees are fast, that's why they dominate so many racing events these days.... oh wait, I meant 450's. nevermind...

I am starting to like this topic again.

Sandman, you amuse me. I'm not kidding, reading your post really made my day.

The 450 riders are really starting to impress me. They have got to be some of the most loyal people out there(besides Artic Cat owners). Although it seems to be they point out the negatives of the others with out ever sighting the postives of their won.

Come on, let us know what makes your 450 so great. The fact they all look the same? Awesome.

The fact you can only get 60ish HP out of them? You should be proud!!

The fact that they become increasingly unreliable after the 50HP mark? Mind blowing

The expensive rebuilds after a meltdown? Keep that nose turned up.

The expensive builds up front to make minimal HP gains? Great

And the noise, what else can be said about a quad that sounds like it's farting around the entire track? We salute you.

I will admit, my quad has had quite a few things done to it. But I'm right around 80hp and have less than $2000 into my motor. I will admit i don't have all the low end torque you do(although close considering I'm working with a smaller 2 stroke motor that was never known for low end), but you have NO WHERE near the top end I do. I will admit my frame isn't exactly stock, but it will handle as good if not better than your ride. And if nothing else, Banshees have the thrill factor, that really is why we all ride to start with.

Ask about me racing results? There are none. Work and family have forced me away from it. But riding is what I'm out there to do.

Does that have anything to say about my quad, no. So why be concerned with
why they dominate so many racing events these days ? That means nothing about the quad, that says more about which company paid the most for the best rider to sell their product to the masses for migher profit margins resulting in increased bonuses for executives at the corporations that don't give a **** about you, me or any of the others that keep paying what they feel they "should" charge.

09-30-2006, 01:53 PM
watch out sandmans 450 is making a whole 47 hp....i hope i never get behind him in a trail or a field.....my less expensive upp 60s, lower 70s HP banshee would never stand a chance agenst that 450...LMFAO :blah: :p


no seriously tho, i rode a piped yfz450 and i was so disapointed :rolleyes:

I remember when the raptor came out, this guy bought one that i knew, 7 thousand dollars and we out riding with me on my banshee and my buddy on his LT....it was the slowest, weakest, most expensive, and heaviest machine out there

and from then on i havnt took 1 article in a magazine shootout seriously

BTW my shee cost a little over 2 K and the LT cost 1800....thats 3800 between the both of them, and the raptor was about 7K after taxes...

but back to the 450...why cant you guys get past the 60 hp mark?? :blah: :confused:

headache
10-02-2006, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by CHEVYZ
Haha, yeah, I think it should rip. No bull****. He is expecting some really low times with it.. haha, go figure. The people are known as CP Customs and are known to build some of the fastest bikes in the country... as an example, their Blaster is supposedly the fastest in the country with their custom build. I will have plenty of pictures. I won't be getting them until sometime in Oct. (13-15 or so), though... which will be for the Clash of the Titans. :D

Yeah the Cp customs Blaster makes 63 horsepower it think. They have some videos of it destroying a 450r and modded 400ex.

450rJam
10-02-2006, 03:17 PM
he who spends the most goes the fastest.
and the fastest are not even running all honda or all yamaha etc.
like banshee with turbo hayabusa or the sabertooth R.
there will never be a winner to this argument.
no one brand is perfect for everything.

outlaw450r
10-03-2006, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by 450rJam
he who spends the most goes the fastest.
and the fastest are not even running all honda or all yamaha etc.
like banshee with turbo hayabusa or the sabertooth R.
there will never be a winner to this argument.
no one brand is perfect for everything.
Well Said

jdwxv3
10-03-2006, 09:59 PM
I dont need HP in the woods just slow steady power. I dont care about drags b/c anyone can do that. Besides every machine sucks in a different way so what the hell is the argument about. I hate drag racing, some of you hate woods racing, some hate Mx and blah blah blah.

If I did drags I'd have a banshee
If I did MX I would have a yfz or honda 450R
If I did TT I would have a 250R or a Banshee
If I did flat track I would have a 250R or a Banshee

Everyone of these quads have there place. And with the right amount of $$ any of the above quads can compete in any of the above types of racing. So all this arguing back and forth is pointless but a good way to kill sometime when you cant sleep lol.

Later, Josh

sandmanblue
10-04-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Honda86
watch out sandmans 450 is making a whole 47 hp....i hope i never get behind him in a trail or a field.....my less expensive upp 60s, lower 70s HP banshee would never stand a chance agenst that 450...LMFAO :blah: :p


no seriously tho, i rode a piped yfz450 and i was so disapointed :rolleyes:

I remember when the raptor came out, this guy bought one that i knew, 7 thousand dollars and we out riding with me on my banshee and my buddy on his LT....it was the slowest, weakest, most expensive, and heaviest machine out there

and from then on i havnt took 1 article in a magazine shootout seriously

BTW my shee cost a little over 2 K and the LT cost 1800....thats 3800 between the both of them, and the raptor was about 7K after taxes...

but back to the 450...why cant you guys get past the 60 hp mark?? :blah: :confused:


If all you guys want to do is race in a straight line or on a dyno, then go for it. I stand by my post. Where are all the Banshee's winning races? Desert? NO. MX? NO. XC? NO. Woods? NO.

Pikes Peak? YES. Drag racing? YES. Finally you have some place to ride these things...

And BTW - I owned a Banshee and wouldn't trade the 450 for it. Banshees are ill handling, front heavy, poorly suspended, narrow powerband, no torque dinosaurs.

Wow. A lightswitch for a powerband and 60, heck even 70 hp from a stock bore Banshee.... All over a whopping 2000 rpm power band. That sure impresses people - at least those that do nothing more than race on the internet...

Lastly, somebody say $2000 into your Banshee? THAT says a lot righ there...

And if you're gonna take pot shots at my dyno numbers? Where's yours? Let's see YOUR OWN ride....

broke
10-04-2006, 03:52 PM
Wow. A lightswitch for a powerband and 60, heck even 70 hp from a stock bore Banshee.... All over a whopping 2000 rpm power band. That sure impresses people - at least those that do nothing more than race on the internet...

I wish I had dyno slips to post to back this up, but I don't. I know motors identical to mine are making 75-8? HP. While mine will have the same peak, my powervalves will broaden the curve even more.

Here is a dyno run of the same port with a non PV motor. Note how long it made more than 50HP, 7500-11000.

http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/501084/147.jpg

Here is a pic of the bike it's in.



http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/501084/71.jpg

This might be the easiest to ride, most docile Banshee motor you can build.

10-04-2006, 05:30 PM
broke told it again...:D

it falls off at 50 hp while most 450 cant even peak there...ahh what 80 technology does :p

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 10:12 AM
So, this isn't YOUR dyno run? I'm not surprised. Looks really peaky doesn't it? That was my point. Over 50 hp for 3300 rpm. Over 60 hp for 2600 rpm and over 70 hp for a whopping 1000 rpm. Peaky.

And exactly how much money went into that motor? Lets add it up.

But before we start, you're trying to tell me that this dyno is a stock cylinder motor? I don't think so pal. It might be 350cc's, but it ain't stock - it has Cheetah written all over it... But. Nevertheless.

Pipes - $500
Porting - $500 (at least)
Pistons Bore/Hone - $350
Head - $300
Carbs - $350
Trued and Welded Crank - $300
Pro Design Intake or similar - $100
Clutch - $200 Hinson basket and plates
Reed Cage - $125

Total: $2,650

Add for Cheetah Cylinders $$$$$$

That doesn't include the necessary extended swingarm and shock - or any of the other crap that ends up being needed. That easily adds another $1,000 - $1,500.

As long as you're posting dyno runs of things you don't own...

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 10:25 AM
From the dyno room here...

Over 50 hp for 5000+ rpm... Over 60 hp for 3000 rpm...

What's more telling is the torque... This thing makes over 45 lb-ft compared to the Banshees 41. It also carries more torque for longer. In case you guys didn't know, torque is what accelerates the quad and wins races. Horsepower is a good measure of what the top speed might be, but it's not THE measure of how good a drag motor is.... Sure, this was a lot of money, but so was the Banshee post above.

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 10:46 AM
And for a stock bore yfz... Again, over 50 hp for 3500 rpm and a torque curve for you 2 strokers to envy...

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 10:50 AM
Stock bore CRF...

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 10:51 AM
TRX522...

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Honda86
broke told it again...:D

it falls off at 50 hp while most 450 cant even peak there...ahh what 80 technology does :p

Maybe you should think before you speak. Most 450's have not had $2,500+ stuck into the motor - unlike the lone Banshee dyno above. The ones that have that much into the motor are well above 50 - as shown above...

headache
10-05-2006, 12:17 PM
i'm sorry but your 60hp fart maker ain't going to out run a 80 hp banshee, i don't care how much torque its got!!

mickey400ex
10-05-2006, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by sandmanblue



Pipes - $500
Porting - $500 (at least)
Pistons Bore/Hone - $350
Head - $300
Carbs - $350
Trued and Welded Crank - $300
Pro Design Intake or similar - $100
Clutch - $200 Hinson basket and plates
Reed Cage - $125

Total: $2,650

Add for Cheetah Cylinders $$$$$$
[/B]


I dont know where u come up with those numbers???????
but heres my cost of a build

used pipes - 300
cool head - 200
used carbs - 300
air pods - 75
true/weld crank - 65
timing plate -35
cheetah cylinders 1050
use stock pistons and rings
no need to port a cheetah unless u want over 100hp and it will only cost around 300 bucks
clutch 200

price for a 80 hp banshee
2,225.00,
so thats not your figure of 2650 + cubs to build it
build a 80 hp 4 poke and see how much its gonna cost, id say double that plus some, so u need to get ur facts straight before u start bashing modified banshees

10-05-2006, 03:41 PM
yeah man....post up a 80 hp 450....if you can find one and we can add up the numbers...IF THERE IS a 80 HP 450 out there, i have never seen one that wsnt on the bottle... as far as the 80 hp banshees...they dont have to stop there, you can get into the 100+ hp range wihout NOS.....4 strokes cant cmpete dollar per dollar and size for size, especially in the drags....thats where the banshee shines, and the 450 got a wide powerband so its good to lug into cornors on a mx track...thats the main points....but really tho....

post up a 80 HP 450....and then us 2 stroke guys can add up the costs, and post up a 100 HP banshee that would cost less then the less powerful 4 stroke :p

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by mickey400ex
I dont know where u come up with those numbers???????
but heres my cost of a build

used pipes - 300
cool head - 200
used carbs - 300
air pods - 75
true/weld crank - 65
timing plate -35
cheetah cylinders 1050
use stock pistons and rings
no need to port a cheetah unless u want over 100hp and it will only cost around 300 bucks
clutch 200

price for a 80 hp banshee
2,225.00,
so thats not your figure of 2650 + cubs to build it
build a 80 hp 4 poke and see how much its gonna cost, id say double that plus some, so u need to get ur facts straight before u start bashing modified banshees

Like I said, no stock cylinder Banshee could do that... There ya go, right in your post - Cheetah Cylinders.

I was pricing new parts. Used pricing is completely irrelevant. If you're going that route, then why not buy a used chevy motor and get 300 hp... Pointless...

250r4life
10-05-2006, 04:21 PM
this is such a pointless argument!!!
everybody knows that dollar for dollar 2 strokes respond a lot better to mods...

and yes banshees are good bikes...
and yes, 450s are good bikes... in fact, give me a 06 yfz, i'll take the baffle out, rejet it, and put a pro desgin K&N on it, and i'll smoke any banshee that doesnt have more than pipes and filter... thats at the dunes, both up the hill and on the flats...

suspension adn handling on the YFZ is far superior to the banshee, or any of the 450s are far superior for that matter... you would need a couple grand in suspension for the banshee jsut to equal what the yfz has right off the show room floor...

they are completely different bikes.... its not like comparing apples to oranges, its like comparing bananas to watermellon...

as far as drags, everybody knows whoever spends the most goes the fastest... and yes, it can be accomplished a lot cheaper with a banshee or any two stroke...

however, for somebody who loves to ride, and loves to race, and wants to be able to do more than just race, the yfz is just a better all around bike...

that is a fact: the YFZ IS A BETTER ALL AROUND BIKE THAN THE BANSHEE!!! THE 250R IS A BETTER ALL AROUND BIKE THAN THE BANSHEE!!!!!!

i love banshees, have owned them, and will own them in the future... but they will be for a specialized purpose and will be one of many kinds of bikes i will have... if i had to choose one bike though and couldnt have any other, it would not be a banshee...

and by the way, in the summer of 2002 i had my 89 250r, a banshee, and an atc 250r... back then the 250r was without a doubt the best all around bike... now the new 450s have messed that all up... of course there is always the fun factor of the 2 stroke hit and powerband, but then we are just turning over a whole different page/argument...

like i said- its like comparing banana to watermellon...
depends on the purpose for which is better...
if we wanted to see how far we could throw somn, i would choose the banana... if we were going to injure people by dropping the fruit from a large builidng, i would choose the watermellon
:D

250r4life
10-05-2006, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by sandmanblue

Used pricing is completely irrelevant


exactly... whoever posted that was rather unintelligent...

450rJam
10-05-2006, 04:28 PM
lmao...............
funny example (banana vs watermellon)
but very true.
and good points
one of the better entertaining posts I have read.

sandmanblue
10-05-2006, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by headache
i'm sorry but your 60hp fart maker ain't going to out run a 80 hp banshee, i don't care how much torque its got!!

You guys just don't get it. :rolleyes:

Were you aware that rear wheel torque is what accelerates the quad and that the quad with the most rear wheel torque is going to win the drag race if weights are equal?

HP is not what wins races... It gives a good indication of top speed potential, but torque will get you to the end of the track sooner.

Take two engines in identical quads. One has twice the rear wheel torque as the other, but they both have the same hp. Who wins? Bigger torque guy right? Now start dropping torque on the winner until it is lower than the other engine - he loses. Take them both to a LONG track and let them go. Who has the higher top speed? Neither - same hp. Who gets to their top speed first? The one with the higher torque.

Now, take quads with equal rear wheel torque but one has higher hp. Who wins the drag? Neither. Same force to the rear wheels = same acceleration. Let them go far enough to reach top speed and the higher hp will accelerate LONGER not harder.

I would happily take you up on that drag race. 60 hp thumper with 45 lb-ft torque vs 80 hp and 41 ft-lbs torque.

Any of the Banshee guys that go to the dunes might want to chime in at this point...

CHEVYZ
10-05-2006, 06:14 PM
Wow... with the exception of a few good posts, this is just one big never ending argument. Are we really so narrow minded that we are STILL stuck on 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke? How can you possibly say that one is superior to the other?

headache
10-05-2006, 06:27 PM
i think 20hp is gonna get there quicker than the 4 foot lbs of torque.. the torque mainly just helps you get off the line, then after that it's all hp

wvspeedfreak
10-05-2006, 07:46 PM
It's bad enough quad riders and dirt bikers can't get along but quad riders arguing over which quad is better?Just ride what you have and enjoy it.............dammit :D

headache
10-05-2006, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by wvspeedfreak
It's bad enough quad riders and dirt bikers can't get along but quad riders arguing over which quad is better?Just ride what you have and enjoy it.............dammit :D

sounds good. I'll ride anything. give me an old 110 big red 3 wheeler and i'll give it some hell:D

mickey400ex
10-05-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by sandmanblue
You guys just don't get it. :rolleyes:

Were you aware that rear wheel torque is what accelerates the quad and that the quad with the most rear wheel torque is going to win the drag race if weights are equal?

HP is not what wins races... It gives a good indication of top speed potential, but torque will get you to the end of the track sooner.

Take two engines in identical quads. One has twice the rear wheel torque as the other, but they both have the same hp. Who wins? Bigger torque guy right? Now start dropping torque on the winner until it is lower than the other engine - he loses. Take them both to a LONG track and let them go. Who has the higher top speed? Neither - same hp. Who gets to their top speed first? The one with the higher torque.

Now, take quads with equal rear wheel torque but one has higher hp. Who wins the drag? Neither. Same force to the rear wheels = same acceleration. Let them go far enough to reach top speed and the higher hp will accelerate LONGER not harder.

I would happily take you up on that drag race. 60 hp thumper with 45 lb-ft torque vs 80 hp and 41 ft-lbs torque.

Any of the Banshee guys that go to the dunes might want to chime in at this point...



you dont have a clue do u ,
that 450r had 60hp 45lbs ft lb
my cbr has 105 hp 39lbt ft lb
the bike weighs more than the quad, but yet since it has 6lbft more tq it can out accelerate my bike up to say 0-60

whats sad is that they are banshees out there that can take my bike in the 1/4 and i bet they arent a 450 on the planet that can take me:eek2:

sandmanblue
10-06-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by mickey400ex
you dont have a clue do u ,
that 450r had 60hp 45lbs ft lb
my cbr has 105 hp 39lbt ft lb
the bike weighs more than the quad, but yet since it has 6lbft more tq it can out accelerate my bike up to say 0-60

whats sad is that they are banshees out there that can take my bike in the 1/4 and i bet they arent a 450 on the planet that can take me:eek2:


You misread. Look at my post again. It says rear wheel torque and absolutely nothing about 1/4 mile. Let's set the stage again. This time a 300 foot sand drags. Two quads with equal weight. In 300 feet, nobody reaches top speed so hp is not a factor. The one with the most rear wheel torque wins.

I have a better analogy than your streetbike - it's more extreme and highlights the issue better.

300 hp and 600 lb-ft diesel F-350 compared to a 345 hp 350 lb-ft gas V-8 in same truck.

Hook up trailers to equal the weight. Who wins the race?

Anyone wanna guess...

10-06-2006, 01:33 PM
sandmanblue said "HP is not what wins races... It gives a good indication of top speed potential, but torque will get you to the end of the track sooner." that is wrong anyway you want to cut it...torque is basically bottom end on a motor, and people often talk about HP in drags because it is MORE IMPORTANT in drag racing....if you honestly think a 60HP 45ft lbs would beat a banshee with 80hp and 39ft lbs of torque your wrong....the banshee has 20 more HP and onyl 6 ft lbs less....think about the ratio's....just for easy numbers if the 450 had lets say 40ft lbs of torque , the banshee would have to have 10 less ft lbs to fit the ratio difference in HP the banshee has over the 450.... (heard to explain online) but its not even 10 ft lbs, its only 6 (for this case) and the banshee has 20 extra HP that plays a BIGGER role in the drag then torque....not only does the banshee have more HP...HP is better to have in a drag then torque...

Think about it, when your drag racing, its all up stairs on the top end, where the banshee shines.... and torque helps you get off the line easiler but that is only a fraction of what the drag race is....how many times have you heard someone race a banshee and they say "we were about even untill the shee hit 4th...or 5th"

Even in pro drag racing they always brag about who has the higher HP motor....because unlike what you said earlier HP IS what gets you to the end of the track FASTER


and i know someone is going to bring up MX or XC...what i said above just goes for drags....

sandmanblue
10-06-2006, 04:46 PM
See, this is where you are missing things...
"torque is basically bottom end on a motor" That statement is totally off base.

Torque is the measurement of the twisting force (in this case) applied to the axle and resulting in the force applied to the ground by the tires.

It occurs at all rpm ranges. HP is derived from torque by the formula

HP = (Torque x RPM)/5252

That is why on all dyno runs, torque and hp have the same value at 5252 rpm.

The only measure of the actual amount of force applied toi the rear wheels is torque. Therefore it is the only valid measurement of the amount of force applied - which translates into acceleration. If you're in school, ask you physics instructor. Apparently, you don't believe me...

If you need me to continue, then fine. Before I do, let me explain that I am a mechanical engineer, so you better have your facts straight before you reply.


BTW - who wins the truck race? Anybody have a drivers license and pull a trailer around here?

10-06-2006, 04:51 PM
for the MOST part torque is on the bottom end...right?

and BTW does anyone know who wins between the 80 hp 39Ft lbs, vs the 60 hp 450 with 45 ft lbs?? :p

sandmanblue
10-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Honda86
for the MOST part torque is on the bottom end...right?

and BTW does anyone know who wins between the 80 hp 39Ft lbs, vs the 60 hp 450 with 45 ft lbs?? :p

Go look at some dyno graphs. Banshee's peak torque is usually around 7000 - 8000 rpm, same as the 450's and also the 250 2 strokes.

Torque is not a bottom end or top end thing. It is just the measure of how hard a motor pulls (accelerates) the quad. Motors that make torque at high rpm make high hp numbers - use the formula and watch what happens to a motor that is making the same torque at 5,000 and 10,000 rpm. The "pull" that the rider feels does not change (same torque), but the hp goes up.

Your impression that torque is bottom end might be based on the significant torque produced at low rpm on a thumper compared to a 2 stroke. This is why they come out of corners so well. You can roll the throttle on and get traction and it is still making really good torque. A 2 stroke needs clutching in order to raise the revs to make torque. That usually means spinning, and less acceleration.

When a 2 stroke comes on the pipe, and your arms are stretching - it is reaching peak torque - not peak hp. They "feel" powerful because the torque increases quickly and it yanks the rider, rather than a steady strong pull.

Thumpers don't have that same 'hit" because they are producing torque over a very wide rpm range.

Lastly, hp is a measure of work over time. It is a difficult concept to differentiate it from torque. Last example - two riders have the exact same quad. One uses a 13 tooth countershaft sprocket and the other uses a 15 tooth. The first one is "geared lower" and applies more torque to the ground than rider #2. Rider 1 will accelerate harder and pull the holeshot on rider 2 because he has more REAR WHEEL torque. Engine torque is the same on both, but the gearing on rider 1 allows is to have a mechanical advantage that lets the tires accelerate the quad faster than rider 2. On a short drag (300 ft) rider 1 will have to shift faster, but gets the holeshot. Yes, there is a top speed difference because rider 1 is geared down lower, but drag races are not top speed contests...


I think I covered that 80 hp Banshee vs 60 hp 450 thing before. Race long enough and the higher hp wins. Out of the hole and on a short drag (300 ft), the thumper has an advantage....

Maybe it's best to just leave this die... I'd rather go riding anyway...

sandmanblue
10-08-2006, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by x rider1291
this is really funny. whos gives a **** how much torque or hp your quad has. just go out, ride, and have some fun. like seriously this is the most pointless topic in the whole dam forum.

Thank you for your enlightening comment. It sure is nice to have people post things that add significant value to the thread... :rolleyes:


Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean you should express it. especially if it doesn't add value to the discussion at hand.

ckasper18
10-08-2006, 11:16 AM
Who cares what you ride just shut up and ride be thankfull you can ride.

97blaster200
10-08-2006, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by ckasper18
Who cares what you ride just shut up and ride be thankfull you can ride.


i kinda care what i ride. i dont want to ride a kazuma. they are junk.

Quadboy14
10-08-2006, 04:38 PM
Hey, I'm not gonna argue that yamaha has the corner on racers, I mean you've got the blaster ,warrior, banshee, raptors (350, 660, 700) and last but not least the yfz. But If you say the 250r is fast, you cant say the 450r isn't.

450rJam
10-08-2006, 05:21 PM
I would say the banshee,raptor 700,yfz are but to qualify the blaster/warrior/350raptor as racers its a streach. (they can be made fast as most can)
but I get your point..........250r and 450r both solid racers
the 250r is more famous for its handleing and geometry than the power...............the power came with opening it up.

Quadboy14
10-08-2006, 07:39 PM
Yeah, when I said "racer" I meant "sport", basically I think anyone who says a Mainline quad company (suzuk, yamaha, polaris, arctic cat, honda, kawasaki) is a joke should stop and realize that most of these companies have had 20+ years of expierience, and research.

x rider1291
10-09-2006, 07:46 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sandmanblue
[B]Thank you for your enlightening comment. It sure is nice to have people post things that add significant value to the thread...



your welcome :D

250r4life
10-09-2006, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by x rider1291
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sandmanblue
[B]Thank you for your enlightening comment. It sure is nice to have people post things that add significant value to the thread...



your welcome :D

what about his welcome?

bigj250
10-13-2006, 08:31 PM
thats all bull last weekend i raced a banshee with a 404cc kit cpi pipes jets filters and my dads 450r with a esr540 kit cams valves and compleate hmf anf filter stomped on that banshee and still wen it was stock i was beating piped stock banshee's maybe you should drag yours angianst a 450r both stock and u will see :D

broke
10-14-2006, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by bigj250
thats all bull last weekend i raced a banshee with a 404cc kit cpi pipes jets filters and my dads 450r with a esr540 kit cams valves and compleate hmf anf filter stomped on that banshee and still wen it was stock i was beating piped stock banshee's maybe you should drag yours angianst a 450r both stock and u will see :D

That was priceless, "my dads":confused:

You beat a Banshee with "jets filters"? Those must make it go really, really fast.

Let's start with the "404cc kit". In my opinion anyone building that motor doesn't know **** about Banshees. The power restricting bottle neck on these motors are the transfers. Now let's add some big bore sleeves and cut into those even more. Now you've taken where the Banshee's HP is hidden and made it even smaller, not just smaller but now having to feed a bigger motor.

I guess my favorite part of all of these is the motor size mismatch. If these four stroke motors are the end all, be all, why do you guys need such a big displacement advantage to beat a much smaller "outdated" motor? Go find a Banshee in the 450 to 540 range, it bet it's going to have more than "jets filters".

I'll tell you what, mine is only a 380 and has held it's own against any four stroke I have raced. The thumpers always get the holeshot, but I will race any quad on foot and get the holeshot for the first ten feet, does that mean I'm faster? No, it just means I have better traction.

Maybe your Dad will drive you up to get gas for his quad so you can prove me wrong on all this?

450rJam
10-14-2006, 06:33 AM
lmao..................there should be a comic section in here so the moderators can move the worthless posts
my dads ? you should have left that little tid bit of info out of your post (lol, glad you didnt though)
broke.....you sound a little sore that a banshee got smoked ?
there will always be someone faster somewhere and he may not be on a banshee.
if anyone says the banshee isnt the best platform for a drag quad dollar for dollar.
If anyone says a banshee cant be beat they are full of it

fastest drag quads are hybreds.
nitro powered hayabusa turbo on a custom frame with air shifter etc etc etc................the fastest dont use 2 strokes.

450rJam
10-14-2006, 07:54 AM
ok dad, you dont get the joke at all.
its like my neighbors dog can beat up your dog.
who cares.
im 39 with 4 kids myself, and they all ride.
and they dont brag about how fast they are on others toys

lmao............does your 16 year old want to race my 13 year old ?

MY KIDS TUFFER THAN YOUR KID................







ok ok I have to stop and appoligize before someone gets the torch out.

10-14-2006, 08:31 AM
duh a crotch rocket motor is going to be faster then a lil 2 stroke....but if we go the most beefed up raptors, 450rs, YFZs, Z400s Vs the most beefed up banshee, Lt500s, 250r, and tecates, it wont even be close

broke
10-14-2006, 12:35 PM
broke.....you sound a little sore that a banshee got smoked ?

Sore, no not at all. I just feel that a child bragging about his "Dad's" quad may not have most unbiased opinion.

There will almost always be someone faster. I know what kind of motors I build and what mine are built for. So I know it is going to take a very serious four stroke to beat mine.

I agree that hybrids are some of the fastest things out there. I would put mine into the hybrid class.

450rJam
10-14-2006, 12:40 PM
ok ok you want to talk fast or you want to talk cc's ?
you want someone to agree with you that cc for cc a 2 stroke is faster ?
we going to argue that they have to be stock ? or are we going to argue $ for $ mods ?
we have to race on sand ? dirt ? or pavement ?



if we go most beefed up vs. most beefed up ?
where are you going to draw the lines ?
(you have to keep it all yamaha/ or all honda)
the fastest banshee's are not even yamaha cylinders.

if we are to race 300'/ in the sand/ uphill/ run stock bores/ and only spend $1,500 in mods etc etc etc.

talor make a race and you know who will win.

how about this race:
we drive around a flat track and see who can get the most laps out of a gallon of gas ?
same cc's/same tires/ $300 on mods etc etc

there is a reason 2 strokes are fun, standard trans. cars are more fun to drive (but your not going to shift faster than a good auto w/ shift kit.


there is a reason the fastest bikes/cars in the world are 4 stroke
this is a pissing match that will go on forever.............

10-14-2006, 02:23 PM
im sayin with a quad based motor, like a cheetah banshee or cub banshee, it is still based off a banshee motor...of course if you throw in some 1200cc or 1300 cc 4 cylender crotch rocket motor itll be faster then some 350-500cc twin...and yes size for size 2 stroke DOMINATE and there isnt a one 4 stroke quad based motor that can compete with the LT 500's and the banshee and 250rs....put the biggest bore on a 450 or 700's and the banshees and LT will continue to smoke them all day, thats the point i was trying to make....

but if you want to get into the having a budget and tring to build the fastest quad for lets say under 2 grand, the 2 stroke will win again....

and BTW this thread does not put me in a bad mood and i hope it dosnt get locked because there isnt nothing but good conversation and debate in here...when the name calling get out of hand, then i think it should be locked

450rJam
10-14-2006, 03:08 PM
thats pretty much what I said.

if you set limits that favor the 2 stroke then yes the 2 stroke will win.
if you remove ALL limits then the 4 stroke will win.

tell me why top fuel dragsters (the fastest things on land)
dont run 2 strokes ?

I sold my 250r for a 450r because I like to drag race/mx/and trail ride all in the same day. and the 450r was better at it than my 250r.

oh and the "quad based motor" idea ?
the fastest quads are running modded dirtbike motors.

its all about good times, and I have them on my crf50 as well as my 450r.

10-14-2006, 04:43 PM
oh course its all about having a good time...i have a great time riding blasters and 250exs all day...

but there isnt anything faster then a big bore banshee based motor....even a modded dirt bike motor 2 stroke or 4 stroke can compete with the 120+ hp banshees....and yes they use banshee cases

the only dirt bike my banshee has lost to was the old KX500 and that was before i had my cylenders ported and before i had pipes...but yes the old 500s were very fast, and the new 450 are quick too, i rode the RM450 and it has a yoshi pipe on it and what not...that was the most impressive 4 stroke i ever rode, and i rode the YFZs and raptors and the yami 450 bike...as a matter of fact i let the suzuki 450 owner ride my banshee while i rode his bike and he even admitted that the bike wouldnt take my shee

a properly tuned banshee with piped, carb, ported, reeds is very hard to beat, without getting into the big bores

and as far as the top fuel dragsters go...thats just another whole topic...a 6-8 thousand HP motor is just flat out amazing and now we would be even further off the topic then we already are...

but just like you said its all about having a good time and some of us 4get that from time to time, id love to have a lil 4 stroke to puts around the trails with, like a lil EX or something would be great

oldskoolex400
10-14-2006, 06:17 PM
KX500!!!!!

10-14-2006, 09:49 PM
what about the KX 500?:confused:

broke
10-15-2006, 07:18 AM
if you set limits that favor the 2 stroke then yes the 2 stroke will win.

Not so fast.

http://www2.propichosting.com/Images/501084/149.jpg


Made by MAN B&W, it's a quad turbo, intercooled, 12 cylinder inline 2-stroke with a bore of 98cm, that pumped out 103 000 BHP on the dyno.

Big two stroke with real world application.

Don't think all the big motors in the world are four strokes.

450rJam
10-15-2006, 08:12 AM
big does not always equal fast.

isnt that the whole 2 stroke argument ?

ok put that 50 ton baby in a earth mover or what ever can hold it and run it......................

that is an impressive achievment though.

broke
10-15-2006, 08:29 AM
It actually goes in a ship.

It is very impressive. A guy on another site is involved with the engineering of these.

To complicate things even more, it's diesel.

This is a 2-stroke diesel, it's directly reversable (means it can run in both directions), connected directly to the propeller shaft.

It uses flap valves in the scavenge system instead of reeds.
The crankcase is sealed off from the combustion space and the scavenge trunking, by a crosshead and stuffing box system. The scavenging is a Uni-flow design, with exhaust valves instead of exhaust ports, this gives better combustion. (See comments about pollution) We ran her up to 110rpm on the dyno. but normally max rpm is 104. A large slow spinning propellor is more efficient that a small high revving one.

grim one
10-15-2006, 12:46 PM
this is about the only good thing a hondont 450 is good for

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c237/Spdfreak91/th_02-20-06_1708.jpg

this guy realized this after my banshee smoked his 450R, NOW he is trading in that slow poke, for fast stroke!!!

450rJam
10-15-2006, 01:30 PM
Im have to question your manhood..................I mean your taking pictures of another mans naked butt.

your not honda bashing, your coming out of the closet

Quadboy14
10-16-2006, 09:26 AM
You guys all have to much money, all I can say is that stock to stock the new 4-strokes will win. The 2-stroke's glory days in mainstream are over. Don't get me wrong I love em, but you gotta admit that any four-fifty will destroy a banshee top end and low. Plus they have half the maitnence, and they haven't been outlawed on state riding lands.

sandmanblue
10-16-2006, 10:21 AM
Hey Broke - Not starting another arguement here, but you said this...

"If these four stroke motors are the end all, be all, why do you guys need such a big displacement advantage to beat a much smaller "outdated" motor?"

Maybe it's because 2 strokes have a power stroke on every engine revolution compared to the every other revolution power stroke of a 4 stroke... Hence, the racing sanctioning bodies accepted 2:1 ratio of 4 stroke displacement to 2 stroke displacement to make the classes more equal. That's why...

Throw that in with the fact that a Banshee has twin cylinders and the most fair comparison would be to your 380 cc 2 stroke twin - a 760 cc 4 stroke twin. The thumper in that case would have pretty good power, don't ya think???? ;)

Like I said - I owned a Banshee - which means I liked them a lot at one time. I just like the 450 better now. Probably because I'm spending more time on mx tracks.

Quadboy14
10-16-2006, 10:42 AM
The way I see it, it's a proven fact that two-strokes are a more powerful motor (pound-for-pound) I mean come on, there isn't a 4stroke 200cc that can take a blaster (stock to stock) or 400cc down that can take banshee (stock to stock), and I aint gonna race a stock 250r with my stock mojave!!

oldskoolex400
10-16-2006, 11:04 AM
felt like sayin it seems like everyone has forgotten about the 500cc bikes nowadays good to see somebody mention one
my 500 is prolly the fastest thing i have ever ridden thats offroad not including streetbikes or anything

broke
10-16-2006, 12:45 PM
I guess what drives me nuts is that we have watered down nationals. We have to use what the factories have dictated to us. Stock frames with stock based motors. If they really want to prove what these new quads can do, open the classes to run aftermarket frames with whatever motor they want as long as it meets the size limit.

We all know the hybrids are the bad asses, they just don't have any of the rules to make them worse. If the new quads are so great, let them prove it against the best. But no, all we have is less than perfect quads racing against other less than perfect quads.

We have just fallen victim to the dark overlords of big corporations. If anyone feels that we are racing these quads becasue they are the best, they are wrong. We race these quads because the powers that be NEED us to race them to make their wallets bigger.

10-16-2006, 04:05 PM
i dont agree with the whole 2:1 ratio with the 4 strokes, like someone said earlier its like having a 100 pounds light weight boxer fight a 200 pound heavyweight, even tho the lightweight is really good there is just laws of physics and the 200 pounder should win....

and yeah its sad that people forget about the 500 bikes....our basement just flooded and i found some old pics of our KX 500...that was a ride....it sad that alot of kids dont even know that a 500 2 stroke was around 10 years ago...id much rather ride the 500 then a 450 anyday....last year i was doin a roof and the nieghbor fired up his piped CR 500 and it was cool to se that some people still ride them....

oldskoolex400
10-16-2006, 07:28 PM
i would like to find one of the cr500's with the crf450 frame for a decent price. the kx i have is in pretty good shape for it to be a 94. it was stripped down to the frame and pc'ed a dark metallic silver new plastics whole engine was went through fx graphics new plastics rebuilt/revalved forks and rear shock new tires/rims sprockets frame guards new fmf gnarly pipe and silencer pretty much its a new bike now i would like to pick up a new gas tank for it but last i checked one was a few hundred bucks. Going back to the kids with the 4 stroke bikes it was sittin on my trailer as they walked by they were calling it a "spode" and telling me i would be lucky if i made it to the gate, wish i could have had a helmet cam or a cameraman as i was passing them their 2006/2007 thumper was being passed by a 13 year old bike :devil: its not the best track bike for controlable power by any means but i have fun on it and thats what counts

10-17-2006, 05:50 AM
exactly!! our was a 94 too and we sold it back in 2000 but when we all went riding and the 500 came out, everyone knew it! It blew the Cr250s, and my banshee (mostly stock at the time) right outta the water....it was a fast bike....its funny how those kids called it a spode bike...lol id like to see them even try to ride a 500....it goes along with the 250r as far as how sad it is to go to the dealer and not see one....and then people think their 450s are the fastest things ever to touch dirt :rolleyes:

oldskoolex400
10-17-2006, 08:58 AM
i definatley cant ride the kx to its full potential but i dont know many people that can bringing up the subject of 250rs wow i sure do miss my old one i would like to find a nice one that has been taken care of w/ some aftermarket parts on it but it being 20 years old they are becoming scarce it seems. they talk how they need rebuilding all the time if you take care of it and build it right i gurantee it will last just as long as a 450 its a shame they quit making that bike it was amazing i am kicking myself to this day for selling mine. might have to pick another one up someday when i get a little extra cash:p

97blaster200
10-17-2006, 10:53 AM
my brother hasnt had to rebuild his 250r for 5 years

10-17-2006, 12:36 PM
yeah 2 strokes dont need to be rebuilt every year, unless you race every weekend and have the carb leaned out to get ever HP possible... my banshee has been rebuilt once and its almost 5 years old... i had my R for 2 and 1/2 years with 1 rebuild since ive owned it... oldskool where are you from?? i am looking to sell my R f i could get the ride number 4 it

headache
10-19-2006, 11:29 PM
i had an old school 87 model CR500 for a while. that thing was scary fast. I have yet to ride anything like it. The only reason i sold it, was cause it was so hard to start.

oldskoolex400
10-20-2006, 04:31 AM
compression in it? or it just didnt wanna start? or both

450rJam
10-20-2006, 12:25 PM
I just sold my 250r this year, when I got it it was on its original bore (1987), I rode it for 3 years more like that.

then bored it +20 and rode it for 2 more (still had great compression when I sold it)

thats 17 years on original bore (it was well taken care of)

2 strokes that are not raced/ and not abused can run for a long time before a top end replacement.

before that I had a 250x that I did abuse for 4 years and I never did anything to the motor. (just replaced grab bars/levers etc. as they broke off)

Im taking care of my 450r but I dont think I'll get 5 years out of the motor. (I hope I'm wrong)

oldskoolex400
10-20-2006, 03:59 PM
what do you guys think about the yfz's i found a 05 SE yfz for a decent price it has gytr a arm guards baffle removed and thats about any input on what to look for as far as wear and tear what is a good price to find it for?

headache
10-20-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by oldskoolex400
compression in it? or it just didnt wanna start? or both


it was hard because of the compression, but mainly i think the carb needed rebuilt, cause it would start running rough if you just tried to putt around on it, as long as you were giving it hell it ran fine.

Toadz400
10-27-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by sandmanblue
Throw that in with the fact that a Banshee has twin cylinders and the most fair comparison would be to your 380 cc 2 stroke twin - a 760 cc 4 stroke twin. The thumper in that case would have pretty good power, don't ya think???? ;)

Make that 760cc 4-stroke twin an engine from the 80's and you've got yourself a race;) . The new 4-strokes can't be compared to an extremely outdated 2-stroke engine design...but it still gives them a run for their money.

500Sabertooth
10-27-2006, 06:49 AM
Hey sandmanblue, Those are some impressive dyno charts...especially of that big 570...I bet it's a blast to ride. I have a 450R that puts out 54hp on it stock bore and stroke and I know how that feels...yours must be a real kick!

Here's a dyno of my 496 Sabertooth to compare 2 bangs to 4 bangs! ;)
:eek2:

headache
10-27-2006, 05:12 PM
Damn that Sabertooth has more torque than any 4 strokes Horsepower!! I bet that is a heck of a ride!!

broke
10-27-2006, 06:57 PM
Those are pretty mean jugs, Calvin did a nice job on them.

I have a video somewhere of one with a turbo on it running on a dyno.

You need to be member to view it.

http://www.planetsand.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=281122

15psi
151hp
97ft lbs torque

500Sabertooth
10-29-2006, 12:59 PM
Yea, that's Kevins (GPRacerX) of GP Engineering turbo Saber...one bad mutha! We also have a turbo Saber in our stable but have yet to get it to run correctly on anything but the dyno....but we're still testing and R&D'ing it.

Neal
Saber Racing

anderson3064
10-30-2006, 07:20 PM
Ford, Chevy---honda,yamaha= too each his(or hers)own. GO RIDE, HAVE FUN

450rJam
10-31-2006, 04:25 AM
diddo.

diversity is what makes the world go round.

wouldnt it suck if there where only one maker of atv/dirtbikes ?

or all the girls had the same size,shape boobies ?

Gumby46
10-31-2006, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by madden
The only fast quad honda ever made was the 250r,with slight mods of course. The 400ex is good for wheelies and going slow,the 450r is just the same with about 10 more HP. Anyone that says an equally moded 450r will beat a Banshee lives in ther own little honda world. And to the guy that said a 400ex will beat a banshee is on crack. A 400ex is not much quicker than a piped Warrior.
Theres my 2cents:macho

Ignorant statement of the year!

headache
11-01-2006, 09:21 PM
sounds like the truth to me!!

450rJam
11-02-2006, 04:11 AM
the only fast honda was the 250r with mods ?
my 250r with mods got sold because the 450r was faster.
how was the 250r the only fast honda atv if the 450r is faster ?

I like the 250r's for what they are (a GREAT handleing GOOD powered atv)

the 250r was on top for a long time its only natural for a people to want to hold on to their king even after his prime.

lil p
11-12-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by CHEVYZ
What is with you guys? There is nothing so special about a shee that you should go around downing other quads. $300 in my 06 and I have not lost once to any Banshee I have raced.... no, I have not raced any full blown drag bikes, but I have raced ones set-up as decent drag bikes and have beaten them as well. I cannot understand why some people cannot just appreciate bikes other than their own for the simple reason that they don't have one or would not buy one. :ermm: ...........
He's right . yea "shees" are fun but theres nothing better than coming out on top with an underdog bike.

chase16banshee
11-15-2006, 04:00 PM
From personal experience i know that a banshee is clearly not the fastest stock quad. I have raced a 660 raptor and a yfz 450 on pavement with my banshee. I out ran them both for about 50 feet and than they both ran me down with the yfz handing it to the raptor. The next day after a gear change i was able to hang in there with both of them but they still out ran me. I'm not saying my shee is running great but it is piped and filtered and has a trinity 2 into on carb kit. Both of the other quads are stock.

That was motivation for me to do something different with my shee and i gaurantee next time we race I will not lose.

chase16banshee
11-15-2006, 04:01 PM
From personal experience i know that a banshee is clearly not the fastest stock quad. I have raced a 660 raptor and a yfz 450 on pavement with my banshee. I out ran them both for about 50 feet and than they both ran me down with the yfz handing it to the raptor. The next day after a gear change i was able to hang in there with both of them but they still out ran me. I'm not saying my shee is running great but it is piped and filtered and has a trinity 2 into on carb kit. Both of the other quads are stock.

That was motivation for me to do something different with my shee and i gaurantee next time we race I will not lose. Even though it was not the fastest that day, I wouldn't trade my shee for either of those 2 quads. I love it.

450rJam
11-16-2006, 03:13 PM
you do realize they are beating the banshee on its own turf ? (straight line drag racing)

the fact that your racing in the street is a handycap to the two
yammies. (on dirt, your powerband is waisted in wheel spin where
as the thumpers power comes on early and stays late)

good luck with the mods needed to beat a stock 4stroke in a drag race.

make sure they dont try to take you to the mx/woods track.
because it would most likely get ugly (at least vs the yfz)

banshee's are fun to me, but more like the atc250r.
you need to be in its eliment to compete (unless $mods$)

11-17-2006, 07:29 AM
the first impression i had of the YFZ 450 Z400 and raptors was at the drag track....all those quads ran in the 16's and 15's in the 1/4 mile....the 198? banshee was the only one to run in the 14"s...all had pipes and scilencers and a couple other small mods....so untill a mostly stock 4 stroke is running in the 13"s with the same size motor as the banshee or smaller, then ill be impressed

banshee84
11-17-2006, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Honda86
the first impression i had of the YFZ 450 Z400 and raptors was at the drag track....all those quads ran in the 16's and 15's in the 1/4 mile....the 198? banshee was the only one to run in the 14"s...all had pipes and scilencers and a couple other small mods....so untill a mostly stock 4 stroke is running in the 13"s with the same size motor as the banshee or smaller, then ill be impressed

A 4-stroke 350 will never be able to do that. :D

11-17-2006, 10:49 AM
yeah i know....4 strokes have their purpose dont get me wrong but id take a full MX 250r over a YFZ and id much rather take a full drag shee over a raptor, i dont care how big they make the motor :D

4 strokes are just a jack of many but a ace of none when it comes down to it...but i guess the magazines think they are the best thing ever to touch dirt, or maybe they just like the extra cash they are getting?

Toadz400
11-17-2006, 12:42 PM
I'm sure a 350 twin 4-stroke could make some good power and get some good drag times. Those 250 single cylinder 4-stroke dirtbikes are pretty damn fast, so I bet doubling the cylinders and destroking it to a 350 would make it a mean beast with a powerband like the Banshee.

250r4life
11-17-2006, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Toadz400
I'm sure a 350 twin 4-stroke could make some good power and get some good drag times. Those 250 single cylinder 4-stroke dirtbikes are pretty damn fast, so I bet doubling the cylinders and destroking it to a 350 would make it a mean beast with a powerband like the Banshee.

i was with ya until that destroking it part... i think a twin 500 4 stroke would be pretty sweat, and the crf 250s are pretty impressive... however, a 350 twin 4 stroke would be worthless...

11-18-2006, 07:34 AM
well first off the 250f arnt much ahead of the 125s you have to think about the weight ratio coming into effect, double the weight and make that 250f pull a axle and two tires and it wouldnt be all that quick (nothin like the bike)

Toadz400
11-18-2006, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by 250r4life
i was with ya until that destroking it part... i think a twin 500 4 stroke would be pretty sweat, and the crf 250s are pretty impressive... however, a 350 twin 4 stroke would be worthless...

The only reason why I said destroke it was because somebody wanted to compare a 4-stroke to the Banshee in terms of CC's. I don't believe a 350 twin 4-stroke would be worthless if it had the same technology as the 4-stroke dirtbikes do.

As for a twin 500 4-stroke, Yamaha put their YZ250F engine together in the Phazer. Supposed to be quite the engine.

Honda86 - A 250F quad could keep up just fine with a modded 400 or even a stock 450. Those 250's make some good power.

450rJam
11-18-2006, 11:06 AM
power to weight ratio comes into play when you compair dirtbikes to atv's.

my son has smoked many 400+ cc atv's on his little cr80

11-18-2006, 02:12 PM
a 250f in a quad frame would have to have some major work dont to compete with its big brother (450) and a 400...the 250fs dont even really spank the 125s by much.....id want a 500 2 stroke in a quad frame if it wouldnt viberate so bad...i really wish quad made more power then what they do (in general) my 65-70 hp banshee is a good ride but i wish my 310R was a 350 or 370 :D

XxMotoPimPxX
11-19-2006, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by madden
The only fast quad honda ever made was the 250r,with slight mods of course. The 400ex is good for wheelies and going slow,the 450r is just the same with about 10 more HP. Anyone that says an equally moded 450r will beat a Banshee lives in ther own little honda world. And to the guy that said a 400ex will beat a banshee is on crack. A 400ex is not much quicker than a piped Warrior.
Theres my 2cents:macho

BANSHEES are so great. I gess when a quad is the best they stop making it? And the 400ex sucks cuzz there still in producktion. The 400ex owns a BANSHEE on the track and trials.

450rJam
11-19-2006, 07:12 AM
there is a reason the other manufacturers are coppying the honda designs and geometry.

and its not because they are "a joke"

(if you cant beat them copy them)

hemp450r
11-19-2006, 10:33 AM
i agree hondas are a joke and George bush jr should be president forever, with Kim jong ill as his advisor, what a useless thread to start

CHEVYZ
11-19-2006, 12:34 PM
Hey, the Banshee is a very (ugh)....I LIKE CHOCOLATE MILK!

Toadz400
11-19-2006, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Honda86
a 250f in a quad frame would have to have some major work dont to compete with its big brother (450) and a 400...the 250fs dont even really spank the 125s by much.....id want a 500 2 stroke in a quad frame if it wouldnt viberate so bad...

Not really, don't the new 250F bikes make about the same HP as a 400 quad? That and the engine is lighter and you've got a good match for the 400 and even the 450 if you know how to ride.

As for the 500, I've heard of a few people being able to cancel out the vibrations in a CR500 quad using rubber bushings on all the mounts and a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

krt400ex
12-05-2006, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
I would like my money back.


LMAO :D

krt400ex
12-05-2006, 10:45 AM
no offence to anybody, but most of this thread is pretty much worthless. the only reason a banshee loses to 450 - modded or no - it because the 450s have loads more torque, and a banshee doesn'y have half as much. that is just the thing between 4-bangers and 2-strokes.

if a banshee had acomparable torque to a 450, not many ppl would be able to hang on to them

Grant Casey
12-10-2006, 04:08 AM
this thread is really long

troutman561
12-10-2006, 05:23 PM
So is my weiner....:muscle:

Grant Casey
12-10-2006, 07:23 PM
good one

250r4life
12-10-2006, 11:14 PM
ha ha ha ha :D

iamjasyn
12-12-2006, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by XxMotoPimPxX
BANSHEES are so great. I gess when a quad is the best they stop making it? And the 400ex sucks cuzz there still in producktion. The 400ex owns a BANSHEE on the track and trials.
You're totally uninformed. It's posters like you that make message boards a drag to weed through.

The banshee is still for sale in canada. The American EPA is what put them out of the U.S. The 07 is black with red flames. They actually market hte 2stroke there too. Check world.honda.com and honda and yamaha of canada. THe 400ex is so uncompetitive against a 2stroke, especially a bone stock 250R it's not even a comparison. the 450R is expensive and a workaround to emissions laws. Again, check world.honda.com. 450R's by the way are not hard to beat in a drag race. I've done it on a stock cylinder 250R and for certainly less money than it would take for him to beat me. Don't forget that you have to bend displacement rules to even make 4strokes competitive. It's a joke in my opinion...

450rJam
12-12-2006, 04:54 PM
the thread is "honda's are a joke"
why do you ride red and still bash it ?

did you realize that the 250r is a honda ?

you may have had a stock bore 250r beat a 450r
but why dont you add the other mods it took ?

pipe,port,alky, etc.

iamjasyn
12-12-2006, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by 450rJam
the thread is "honda's are a joke"
why do you ride red and still bash it ?

did you realize that the 250r is a honda ?

you may have had a stock bore 250r beat a 450r
but why dont you add the other mods it took ?

pipe,port,alky, etc.

Ok, well even if I had a Honda lawn mower which is a great mower I wouldn't sit here and tell you it's a good race engine. I just think it's funny how people think 2strokes are outdated, like that lame post I replied to... coming to the brilliant conclusion that a 400ex is better simply because banshee's have been discontinued (in the US).

I don't have a problem with any 450. I have a problem with the marketing slant though and the brillliant consumers who watch nothing but MTV read nothing but Dirt Wheels and know nothing about the history and general application of 2stroke and 4stroke motors. High hp 4strokes are not a new technology... lol

I have a pipe, quality porting, 38mm carb and reshaped head. None of which are moving parts rotating in the top end.

A mindless shift along with full color advertising really only potentially hurts the mindless. I think 450's are for people who don't care about a rev limiter, prefer a mellow and consistent power curve and don't mind expensive maintenance to pay for the increased power. Just ask how much it costs to maintain a Ferrari or nascar engine before letting the words fall from your mouth that the new Honda 450 is "new technology". I don't think Honda sucks. I think people who are brainlessly buying their Hentai bubblegum looking quads do though.

outlaw450r
12-12-2006, 08:45 PM
I noticed in your sig the only thing sturdy is a lawnmower.
You said it!!!!!!!!!!!

troutman561
12-12-2006, 09:17 PM
Ok the guy was tlaking about 400ex's owning banshees on the track cause they are outdated.. well the outdated part is crazyness.....

But anyways I would have to agree that stock for stock, a 400ex would own a banshee on the track simply because of torque and superior handling. Because lets face it, tho the banshee engine is good and has alot of potential, the frame has to be one of the worse handling things on the market(stock). Just my 2 cents....

iamjasyn
12-13-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by outlaw450r
I noticed in your sig the only thing sturdy is a lawnmower.
You said it!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHA. Everything in my garage is more sturdy than the timebomb you're hitting the rev limiter on. lol

iamjasyn
12-13-2006, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by troutman561
Ok the guy was tlaking about 400ex's owning banshees on the track cause they are outdated.. well the outdated part is crazyness.....

But anyways I would have to agree that stock for stock, a 400ex would own a banshee on the track simply because of torque and superior handling. Because lets face it, tho the banshee engine is good and has alot of potential, the frame has to be one of the worse handling things on the market(stock). Just my 2 cents....

Well I don't own a banshee (yet), but that is a sad state when a 400ex is thought to own a banshee. The 400ex is a dog. It vibrates my feet numb, revs slow and in the sand is as boring and slow as a sunday drive with grandpa. In my mind a banshee has way more potential (not a sunday driver).

firefighterjosh
12-13-2006, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by troutman561
Ok the guy was tlaking about 400ex's owning banshees on the track cause they are outdated.. well the outdated part is crazyness.....

But anyways I would have to agree that stock for stock, a 400ex would own a banshee on the track simply because of torque and superior handling. Because lets face it, tho the banshee engine is good and has alot of potential, the frame has to be one of the worse handling things on the market(stock). Just my 2 cents....

I have both. O rather race my banshee on a MX track and my 400 in a XC race. Gp race is a MX and XC put together and I wish I had the banshee.

krt400ex
12-13-2006, 11:20 AM
i disagree, and agree....

like i said, most of this thread is worthless, but i think now we r getting into a worthwhile debate

persoanlly, i agree with the fact that the banshee is more of a thrill ride, and it has a kick A powerpband. i don't think that the 400ex will own it on the track, however, i think it would be very close becaue the 400ex is 2 in. wider, has better suspension, and has a decent motor. this would equate to a better handling package with a motor that will allow it to be competitive against a stock banshee. remember i am talking stock vs stock. it they were both hopped up (stock bore); suspension and motor, the banshee would smoke a 400ex around a track.

i love the 2 strokes, and a 4 banger does not have mellow power. a built yfz or R will readily smoke a built 250R or banshee. on the track they r better because they get the power to the ground via a chitload of torque. i think that 250R and 400ex have superior(sp?) handling in stock and modified form over any other quad out there (except the ltr becaue it is 3 in. wider stock). this is just my opinion.

also, i disagree completely with the person that said that 4 strokes vibrate alot more than 2 strokes....not true at all. 2 strokes have no counterbalancers, and some 4bangers(i.e. yfz) have duel counterbalancers. i have rode both 2 stroke and 4 stroke, and i thoroughly enjoyed both, but IMO the 450s r better. the 450s and z400 do not at all rev slow, they rev almost like a 2 stroke (especially when hopped up), i will agree that the 400ex does rev very slowly.

to each his own, but i think to really be able to state as fact which machine is beter is to take 4 or 5 riders to a track, with a 450 250R and banshee, have each of them do equal amouts of laps on each machine, and see what they say aboiut each machine, and take the lap times of each rider on each machine. that will show for a fact which is better. everybody has their personal opinions, and mine is that 4 bangers r better.

i do not think that 4 strokes r extremely expensive to maintain. they r if u do not do reggular maintenance( valve adjustment, change oil regularly, piston and rings every couple of yrs, ect...). if u let it go until it eplodes, then yes, they r very expensive th repair. 4 strokes do cost more to modify, i will agree with that as well.

this is all my opinion, not stated fact. feel free to argue me

iamjasyn
12-13-2006, 01:37 PM
Hey Kurt,
I agree. To each his own. THere is an article on LA sleeve's web site that shows a break down of average maintenance cost between a honda 125 2stroke and 250f. THey sited hte main contributing factor to 4stroke longevity is rpm. They stated on average the cost is about 39% higher with the 4stroke - just routine maintenance. So, but bottom line is how much can you afford for that 4stroke power that you and lots of people prefer.

I agree, the 450 is not "mellow". But it is mellow compared to a banshee or ported 250R. I've ridden all 3. My basic bottom line on that issue is that 2strokes are cheaper and easier to get a snappy response from than the comparitively "mellow" 4stroke powerband. Ya hte 400ex revvs slow. I have a bone stock 89R and the difference is HUGE in responsiveness. I've got my friend pondering going back to the R after riding it.

As far as vibration... I couldn't disagree with you more. The 400ex makes my feet and hands numb. I swear... compared to my 250R anyway. The R is counterbalanced by the way and especially in stock cc form has hardly no vibration at all. There is a huge difference between the two. As far as the banshee, I'm not sure, but those pistons counterbalance each other don't they? Either way, I don't remember it making my hands feel like I'm riding a jackhammer.

krt400ex
12-13-2006, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by iamjasyn


As far as vibration... I couldn't disagree with you more. The 400ex makes my feet and hands numb. I swear... compared to my 250R anyway. The R is counterbalanced by the way and especially in stock cc form has hardly no vibration at all. There is a huge difference between the two. As far as the banshee, I'm not sure, but those pistons counterbalance each other don't they? Either way, I don't remember it making my hands feel like I'm riding a jackhammer.


wow, when i rode the 2 stroke back to back with the 400ex it was night and day different...and it was the 2 stroke that made my hands numb....i am suprised. i will say that the 400 does vibrate alot, but it is not at all as bad as the 2 strokes i have rode...but maybe, the ones i rode were in nat as good condition as the ones u rode...lol....i am serious, no one takes care of their bike where i live...most everything is a peice of chit. that makes a difference too....

also...i didn't knw that the 250Rs have counterbalancers...good info

250r4life
12-13-2006, 09:02 PM
most of this thread isnt really worth responding to... ignorance is abundant...

i will say that the "hit" isnt the same across the board of the 450s... that YFZ is a high revver and has a pretty good hit to it- a lot more than the trx or ltr... the yfz is pretty impressive.

i have a buddy that just put the HRC kit on his 06, and he is on his way to the dunes as we speak. i will be there this weekend and have a feeling im still going to be winning... and he is a dang good rider too...

prior to the 450s i wouldnt have even considered having any of the 4 strokes as my primary bike... however, unfortunalely it looks like im going to let go of the R and my YFZ will be my bike... i will say that my R is more fun though, and man it is going to kill me to get rid of that bike...

iamjasyn
12-14-2006, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by 250r4life
most of this thread isnt really worth responding to... ignorance is abundant...

i will say that the "hit" isnt the same across the board of the 450s... that YFZ is a high revver and has a pretty good hit to it- a lot more than the trx or ltr... the yfz is pretty impressive.

i have a buddy that just put the HRC kit on his 06, and he is on his way to the dunes as we speak. i will be there this weekend and have a feeling im still going to be winning... and he is a dang good rider too...

prior to the 450s i wouldnt have even considered having any of the 4 strokes as my primary bike... however, unfortunalely it looks like im going to let go of the R and my YFZ will be my bike... i will say that my R is more fun though, and man it is going to kill me to get rid of that bike...
Why don't ya sell that YFZ, put a 310PV ported for duning on that SOB, keep your R chassis and save some money in the long run to boot! That's just me :D

dunkin racer-x
12-14-2006, 02:38 AM
And the 250r is still being made its not one of the first ones built but its a new one . Its being made by service honda and it is pretty sweet quad .If you'd like to see it go to www.servicehonda.com and look at the lower left corner of the page and you will see it .. honda mfg made a deal with them to make the quads with all the extra cr250 motors and for a price you can get one with a cr500 motor in it aswell. and you do get the factory warranty aswell . I have a shop close to them . dirt wheels did a reveiw on the quad aswell and gave it a thumbs up with all the upgraded stuff on it compaired to its older counter part . like .. ohlins ,zero preload shocks with reservoirs ,cnc'ed case half , all kinds of upgrades .. And I'd like to see a 450 keep up with the trx500cr there making ... That would be fun to see ..

450rJam
12-14-2006, 04:33 AM
250r4life,

Im currious to see how it does up the hills also, mine did great on the flat sand drags and hill climbs but we didnt race up the hills.

LS oklahoma is the only dunes I have been to.

let me know how it goes, thankx

firefighterjosh
12-14-2006, 07:00 AM
I guess when it comes down to it.....Its what you feel comfortable on.


For me....

Hillclimbs - gotta have the banshee

Drag - Duh banshee

XC Race - 400

MX tight indoor course - 400

MX outdoor - banshee

GP - Banshee

Mud - my 4x4:devil:

250r4life
12-14-2006, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by iamjasyn
Why don't ya sell that YFZ, put a 310PV ported for duning on that SOB, keep your R chassis and save some money in the long run to boot! That's just me :D

why? i couldnt tell ya how many bigger bore R's i smoked with my 265...

my 265 kit frickin cooks... i know a lot of people thought i had a lot bigger bore than what i had...



i love my R... i mean i love it... but its just nice going through 5 gallons of gas in a whole weekend... having that killer yfz suspension... and having the peace of mind that everything is under warranty...

if i had tons of money i wouldnt even consider selling the R... but...

250r4life
12-14-2006, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by dunkin racer-x
And the 250r is still being made its not one of the first ones built but its a new one . Its being made by service honda and it is pretty sweet quad .If you'd like to see it go to www.servicehonda.com and look at the lower left corner of the page and you will see it .. honda mfg made a deal with them to make the quads with all the extra cr250 motors and for a price you can get one with a cr500 motor in it aswell. and you do get the factory warranty aswell . I have a shop close to them . dirt wheels did a reveiw on the quad aswell and gave it a thumbs up with all the upgraded stuff on it compaired to its older counter part . like .. ohlins ,zero preload shocks with reservoirs ,cnc'ed case half , all kinds of upgrades .. And I'd like to see a 450 keep up with the trx500cr there making ... That would be fun to see ..

so youre trying to say you own a shop again, after you already said in other posts "the shop you go to?"

250r4life
12-14-2006, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by 450rJam
250r4life,

Im currious to see how it does up the hills also, mine did great on the flat sand drags and hill climbs but we didnt race up the hills.

LS oklahoma is the only dunes I have been to.

let me know how it goes, thankx

cool... i'll let you know...

it'll be a pretty even race too, as we both weigh pretty much the same, both have sand stars on C series all the way around, and he is a good rider as well... he has been riding for 20 years...

krt400ex
12-14-2006, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by 250r4life
why? i couldnt tell ya how many bigger bore R's i smoked with my 265...

my 265 kit frickin cooks... i know a lot of people thought i had a lot bigger bore than what i had...



i love my R... i mean i love it... but its just nice going through 5 gallons of gas in a whole weekend... having that killer yfz suspension... and having the peace of mind that everything is under warranty...

if i had tons of money i wouldnt even consider selling the R... but...


if u had tons of money.....

r u saying that it is more expensive to run the R.....hmmm.....didn't i hear just the opposite from u?

250r4life
12-14-2006, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by krt400ex
if u had tons of money.....

r u saying that it is more expensive to run the R.....hmmm.....didn't i hear just the opposite from u?

its a lot more expensive to run the R... no, you didnt hear the opposite from me...

in a good weekend at the dunes i use 15-20 gallons of gas on my R... on my YFZ i use 5-7...

iamjasyn
12-14-2006, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by 250r4life
its a lot more expensive to run the R... no, you didnt hear the opposite from me...

in a good weekend at the dunes i use 15-20 gallons of gas on my R... on my YFZ i use 5-7...

3 times the fuel!?!? That sounds odd. I burn about twice as much with a 38mm PWK as a 400ex which is smaller than the YFZ.

Anyway, ya, I run a 270, but even when it was a 261, it smoked. Beat a zilla up China Wall even. the stock cylinder cna be pretty fast when treated well. I know though too that the right porter can make an Al bore 290PV turn low 60's hp with a pretty broad tq curve. That should be cheaper It's all in the porting. So, my guess is the big bores you stomped weren't tuned in one way or another.

250r4life
12-14-2006, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by iamjasyn
3 times the fuel!?!? That sounds odd. I burn about twice as much with a 38mm PWK as a 400ex which is smaller than the YFZ.

Anyway, ya, I run a 270, but even when it was a 261, it smoked. Beat a zilla up China Wall even. the stock cylinder cna be pretty fast when treated well. I know though too that the right porter can make an Al bore 290PV turn low 60's hp with a pretty broad tq curve. That should be cheaper It's all in the porting. So, my guess is the big bores you stomped weren't tuned in one way or another.

a combination of a- my bike was built and tuned very well b- who knows about the other guys c- my riding ability versus that of others...

i dont have a problem with being beaten up the hills... that isnt at all why i got the yfz, as my 250r was faster... you guys tell me to go get a 310 like i was getting beat... i wasnt getting beat on my R, and im not getting beat on my YFZ...

iamjasyn
12-14-2006, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by 250r4life
a combination of a- my bike was built and tuned very well b- who knows about the other guys c- my riding ability versus that of others...

i dont have a problem with being beaten up the hills... that isnt at all why i got the yfz, as my 250r was faster... you guys tell me to go get a 310 like i was getting beat... i wasnt getting beat on my R, and im not getting beat on my YFZ...

oh. I assumed the reason you were selling the R that you said was the most fun was because the R wasn't strong enough. So the main reason is fuel cost? If so, those are crappy times when fuel cost forces you to sell your favorite machine.

Sounds like it rips. You gonna sell it or part it? I might be interested in that PV and frame.

--
Ah, I just remembered that you already sold the cylinder... Can I ask who did the good porting?

250r4life
12-14-2006, 07:33 PM
no, the main reason that i got the YFZ is not because of fuel cost... you can buy a lot of fuel for what i paid for the YFZ...

here is the story... in june of 2002 i buy this stock original 89 R- had the stock filter and everything... i go ahead and put a paul turner pipe, rad valve, K&N, and take the lid off and rejet and everything... the bike is strong, fast, and it takes a ported banshee to beat me... the raptors, 400s, etc... are all fine... i have good races... so i keep it like that, still original engine that has never been touched... fast foward a few years, to 2005. i still have my R set up the same way, its still reliable as a rock, and ive just become so familiar with my bike and ride the heck out of it... im down at the dunes, and even though i get out on people at the launch, and beat them through the whoops, my lead is quickly eliminated by LESSOR RIDERS on these 450s... so i still would beat quite a few, but it just kinda sucked losing to people who i know i was a better rider than... so, i decided i would mod my bike a little, and then came the 265 kit and the carb and etc... i finished that in like aug of 2005. so i went down to the dunes in october, and its great... im no longer getting pulled by the modded 450s... go through entire weekends without getting beat by bikes that werent pretty dang modded out... in december of 05, down at the dunes and i locked up my rear end... the 1st REPAIR that was ever done to my bike... Mid Jan 06, for some reason which im still not sure why, my wrist pin bearing goes out and takes out my top end... so, re-niksail and new piston yada yada, she is back and screaming... easter weekend, my rod bearing goes out and takes out the top end again... so, new entire top and bottom end... new everything... i check out the tranny at that time, and gears look brand new.. ship shape... get it back and screaming like a champ... smokin all kinds of people... my buddy has his raptor 700 done up at dynoed at 55hp, i pull away from him up the hill... 1st weekend of november- racing at the hill, go to launch and i grenade 2nd gear.

so, if i went through and replaced all my gears, my bike should be rock solid now...i would have a new bottom end, new tranny, etc... and if i would have done it all at once when i 1st got my top end, it would have probably been better... hind sights 20/20... but i needed a new bike for thanksgiving... and if i was to keep my R, i would have needed to get new suspension as i have nerve problems in my elbows... i just didnt want to dump a whole lot more money into my R... after i did it coulda been rock solid, but then again i could have had more problems with it...

with the YFZ being as fast as it is and my riding ability, its going to take some pretty modded bikes to beat me... i went down at thanksgiving with my bike how it is, and you wouldnt beleive my if i told you how few races i lost... and thats with a bike that is stock so i should have good reliability, and if not i have a 4.5 year warranty... the suspension on my YFZ is already where my R would be if i dropped 1500 into my R. I could run 91 if i wanted ( i dont) and like i already said the yfz uses like no gas...

so there you have it... and i would love to keep my R as a second bike, but you have to know how to ride to be able to ride an R... thats not a good bike for my woman or my heavy and unexperienced brother in laws to ride... so, unfortunalely, it looks like i will get rid of my baby and purchase a raptor...

dunkin racer-x
12-14-2006, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by 250r4life
so youre trying to say you own a shop again, after you already said in other posts "the shop you go to?"

Not saying that mines the one to go to in no way . Just saying that service honda dose have those and they are a great shop . They deal in honda only were my shop deals in yamaha,kaw,suz,pol,.. We the 2 shops kinda help each other out we are about 35 miles apart so there is no big deal . If we have some thing they need it's there and if they have some thing we need it's there. Just good people all in all .. Taking care of customers and doing whats right ..

iamjasyn
12-15-2006, 10:07 AM
250r4Life. I sent ya a PM.

250r4life
12-16-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by 450rJam
250r4life,

Im currious to see how it does up the hills also, mine did great on the flat sand drags and hill climbs but we didnt race up the hills.

LS oklahoma is the only dunes I have been to.

let me know how it goes, thankx

well that sux... i came down with whatever is going around, and my stomach has been all messed up... been leaving all sorts of crazy junk in the toilet- coming out both ends... looks like i'll have to wait till new years to race...

450rJam
12-16-2006, 12:08 PM
it sucks to be sick, and even more to miss out on a dune trip.

I just put on my rossier, and waiting to start it up for the sylicone to dry is killing me.

250r4life
12-16-2006, 01:44 PM
youre telling me... i was still trying to swing the dune trip, but i would have just been miserable..

that rossier is a good pipe- you'll like it...

m.h.s.c.#527
01-13-2007, 11:50 AM
dude the only thing yamaheas eer had is the banshee honda has had something to compete with eveything else so suck it

broke
01-13-2007, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by m.h.s.c.#527
dude the only thing yamaheas eer had is the banshee honda has had something to compete with eveything else so suck it

I'm not even 100% sure exactly what you said.

I think we can all agree, you can't win on a stock quad. Once you are done dumping all the money into it, it can hang with everything else. If any of these brands were so dominant, all the others would quickly fade away. But as everyone knows, that hasn't happened. Quads have gone the same way as bikes, they pretty much all evolve into what is agreed to be the best, and basically just paint them different colors.

If your quad is so much better than everyone elses, how come everyone changes all the same parts to make them handle exactly the same way and run just as fast as the rest?

TWILES
01-13-2007, 09:41 PM
I don't know why people argue things like this.
From my past units, what I've seen is the following:

Yamaha: more stock power, MUST be ridden at their max to be appriciated and WILL blow if not properly maintained and normally faster out of the box than a Honda. The downside is that with the Banshee you have to really know how to ride to override it and thats where it shines.

Honda: can't break them unless you REALLY try and usually mod a little better then Yamaha's. The downside is they are weak stock and basically MUST be modded to truely be enjoyed. I bought a 2004 450R new and cried inside and after selling my Banshee.

Suzuki's JUST SUCK. I don't have to agrue that one. 90% of the mids 20 to late 30 yearolds who have been around will agree without ever sitting on a 450. We remember the original quadracers.

Kawasaki: Never saw a mojave on a track or trail ...? I saw a few tacates at Nationals with older guys on them. If they handled good they would be great. They had an awesome motor. They just couldn't take a hit or turn. I've heard from #'s of people that the 4x4's rule.

2-strokes are living on with those who chose but as far as the 450's go, pick your color. I like the Honda in the end. I think the motor is better. But ANYONE who really believes a 450 of any color with the same mods as a Banshee would outrun it in a drag race or top speed is 15 years old. If you fall into that catagory and you are physically older than 15 years, you're not mentally. Those of us who can grow a beard think you guys have some real issues in your lives that can't be helped. Arguing with me would be stupid. I own a 450R that can't hold a fart in the wind to my WR450F dirtbike even with a rider 100lbs lighter than me on it and the WR would get eat'n by my old Banshee with stock cylinders, pipes, no airbox, and proper jetting, stock gearing and 18" rear tires. I've been there and I know.

450rJam
01-13-2007, 10:08 PM
alot of generalizations, good points/opinions

there are exceptions

glad your banshee left a smile on your face, after mods they are hard to beat (in a straight line)

no one atv is best at everything (250r w/mods close)

banshee w/pipes k&n opened up a bit is still no match for a
06/07 450rw/hrc.

yamaha/honda seem to be neck in neck
suzuki is trying hard (efi, stock wide width)
kawasaki is yet to be seen

there will always be 2 strokes, but as time passes they will
be seen less and less. but like a 67 SS chevelle on a summers
day...................will always be cool.

krt400ex
01-14-2007, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by TWILES


Suzuki's JUST SUCK. I don't have to agrue that one. 90% of the mids 20 to late 30 yearolds who have been around will agree without ever sitting on a 450. We remember the original quadracers.




i couldn't agree more

sandmanblue
01-19-2007, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by 500Sabertooth
Hey sandmanblue, Those are some impressive dyno charts...especially of that big 570...I bet it's a blast to ride. I have a 450R that puts out 54hp on it stock bore and stroke and I know how that feels...yours must be a real kick!

Here's a dyno of my 496 Sabertooth to compare 2 bangs to 4 bangs! ;)
:eek2:

Hmmmm. A turbocharged 500cc two stroke at over 100 hp.

What happens when there's no turbo? Would you like to see the dyno of the 100 hp turbo 450 that's floating around??? Or the 500+ hp turbo Huyabusa?

As long as we are using turbo's why not nitrous as well.... This thread is long past silly...

sc400ex_rider
01-20-2007, 11:38 AM
i rode with a shee and my mildly moded 400ex was faster. he did not pass me all day,hell his buddy had a crf450 and he only passed me a couple times ...but thats just how i roll. :) i rode a stock ragdout shee one time i was not impressed and qiuckly got off... :blah:

450rJam
01-20-2007, 11:46 AM
the reason the banshee is discontinued is because the yfz450
is faster, a stock yfz will eat a piped banshee

and so will a 450r

Ruby Soho
01-20-2007, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by 450rJam
the reason the banshee is discontinued is because the yfz450
is faster, a stock yfz will eat a piped banshee

and so will a 450r

your kidding, right?

450rJam
01-20-2007, 01:07 PM
dead serious, it takes some porting/reeds/cool heads/etc to make a banshee fast.

my buddy has a banshee with pipes and filters and he also has a bone stock 700rappy. the rappy wins
(same raptor I smoked at the dunes so bad there was only one race)

yes rider can help.

krt400ex
01-20-2007, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Ruby Soho
your kidding, right?

he must be because a stock banshee will beat a stock yz250...which is faster than any stock 450 race quad

450rJam
01-20-2007, 04:19 PM
dont know about the yz250 but I have gotten the best of a rm250
by prob. 2 lengths (it wasnt stock either)

are you saying a stock banshee will beat a stock 450 ?

now YOU must be kidding !!!

Im not going to argue with you over the obvious.
you will be educated in time.

krt400ex
01-20-2007, 04:21 PM
i rode a guys stock 450r with 2 stock banshees, and they had no problem smoking me. on the top end, not just acceleration