Trades: Hydraulic excavator operators

[DieselBoy]

I'm looking to get some background info on becoming an excavator operator from someone who's an operator or knows some info about this. I will be attending a school that runs for 8-9 weeks and is full time, and very involved (machine training/in class.) I want to know what you can start out on, and what hopes I may have of becoming hired AS an operator.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Aceman]

I'm curious why you only want to run excavators? Seems like you're really limiting yourself. I know a guy who is doing union work and got training in cranes, excavators, etc (basically all the big equipment) and is making 30+/hr. Unless you just really like digging holes and making trenches?

[DieselBoy]

Well the excavator is something I would like to do, I'm open to whatever pays well, I know the excavator position pays well. But I'm wondering if when you're trained whether or not your hired as an operator, or just as a manual laborer. I've heard your no farther ahead than that-other-guy? seems like a bunch of BS but I want to hear it from some operators first hand.

The excavator would be good enough for me in the meantime.

[bigbadbrad]

well you problay wont get hired, or wont get to good of a payiong job or be stuck with crappy equipment because you wont and dont have much experience, most place dont want just some guy who just took a class to be running their quater of a million dollar piece of equipment

[DieselBoy]

Originally posted by bigbadbrad
well you problay wont get hired, or wont get to good of a payiong job or be stuck with crappy equipment because you wont and dont have much experience, most place dont want just some guy who just took a class to be running their quater of a million dollar piece of equipment

so, what DO they want?

where do the newbies begin?

[LT250RMan]

Originally posted by bigbadbrad
well you problay wont get hired, or wont get to good of a payiong job or be stuck with crappy equipment because you wont and dont have much experience, most place dont want just some guy who just took a class to be running their quater of a million dollar piece of equipment


You have no idea what your talking about man, I'm a heavy equipment operator and i make over $25 an hour. Its not that hard to learn to run a excavator all you do is just sit there and run 2 leavers with your hands, i knew how to operate one really good with in 2 days.

[Chicksdigme423]

i'm only 16 and i've run numerous 9,000-15,000 lb excavators... not very big but they arent complicated to run...

[Giz400ex]

Originally posted by Chicksdigme423
i'm only 16 and i've run numerous 9,000-15,000 lb excavators... not very big but they arent complicated to run... I know.. its just a machine but I've NEVER heard of a school or training for a machine opr???? You do need to get some experience but start by a local construction company and move up from there. If you don't have any experience, you won't get hired. A smaller outfit is more likely to train you but you will have to start at the bottom, like a ground man or laborer. They won't let you jump in a machine with no time in it, gotta start somewhere. Good luck

[MOFO]

Originally posted by DieselBoy
so, what DO they want?

where do the newbies begin?


A good friend of mine has a fairly large escavation business. He starts his guys in the field using smaller equipment and diggin ditches. The guys that run the large equipment have plenty of experience in the field or with the company.

[procircuit406ex]

i know this is off subject,but what kind of excavating is it? it it in a strip mine or a regular counstruction site?:confused:

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Aceman
I'm curious why you only want to run excavators? Seems like you're really limiting yourself. I know a guy who is doing union work and got training in cranes, excavators, etc (basically all the big equipment) and is making 30+/hr. Unless you just really like digging holes and making trenches? There is a lot of money to be made in just digging ditches. A friend of the family owns a fairly large excavating company and his first equipment purchase was a $50k mini excavator. He had it paid off in the first summer digging nothing but downspouts, drains and water lines.

DieselBoy, your best bet is getting a job with an excavating company as an apprentice of some sort and learn the trade for a couple of years. Granted, you'll have a shovel in your hand for the first portion of it but you'll learn the ins-and-outs of the trade. People that claim they jumped in an excavator and learned it in a few hours are full of BS. You may learn how to operate the bucket but not all trenches are the same. I'll guarantee you that their ditches look like roller coasters and don't have the proper grade.

[Quad18star]

Like the others have said , there is good money to be made in the trade . There's also a few of these training centers that will train you in more than just 1 type of equipment ... usually on an excavator , a dozer and a grader , all within a few weeks .

I can't remember the website , but I'll try and find it for you .

[Pappy]

Around here, if you are trying to get hired by a private, small excavating company it comes down to your expierence. The larger companies look upon those with expierence and training more then someone they think will do good. As others have said, there is good money for a qualified operator

[bigbadbrad]

i never said anything about them beung hard to run, i said that most places will not hire you unless you have some sort of experince. I fyou are apllying for a job, and there is someone else aplying for it and you went to that school and they did not, but they have a year or two of experince they will most likely get the job not you. best way to learn, going to that school is a good way, maybe rent one if you got some work to do around your place, do you know anyone who owns one, ask them if they could show you how to run it, and ask them for some tips. Like some one esle said , you could go for an apprentce ship, you most likely will be behind a shovel ,but if you show them you want to run the excavtor, they will probally let you, over time. you cant just start at the top you have to start at the bottom and go up

[hskers82]

The union I am in has an apprenticeship program to run all different types of equipment(it is a 3 year apprenticeship).Once you are done with your apprentice training you will more than likely get paid scale(it varies from state to state).I have applied for a job in Temecula(not far from you) and they start out at $25 hour for some experience and goes all the way up to $33 an hour for more experience.I got all of my training through good ol' uncle sam.I am not saying it was the best but it got my foot in the door.I would go to the school or check with the IUOE in your area(IUOE is International Union of Operating Engineers) and see what they have to offer.Just like everyone has said in this post experience is going to be the big factor.As far as learning an excavator in a day or two ,how many utilities were you digging by that were ripped out,I am sure it was all clear.That is one major part with getting experience is the longer you are on a machine the better you can "feel" anything underground.I dig water mains and can feel a 3/4" lead water line it just takes time and plenty of practice

[TCracin440ex]

i work construction....operating equiptment....pans, trackhoes, backhoes, dozers etc.....ill tell you what...i hardly ever say no to schooling, but in the field most men will laugh you off their crew if you tell them you went to school to learn how to be an operator...the best learning tool is the hands on experience...and i also believe the skills and nitch for operating and being graceful with a piece of equiptment has to come natural....i work with 2 guys one has been to school to learn how to be an operator, and the other guy has never had schooling at all...and the guy that has never had schooling at all can work circles arround the guy that has had the schooling....

and i can verify that most people aint gonna hire you right off the bat as an operator...you are most likely going to be a bank man/chineese backhoe operator/and a laboror....

i can also verify that there is not really good money to be made in this line of work....the only way to make money in my field of work is working alot of hours and plenty of o/t...i put in 70 hours in 1 week....its alot of hard work i can tell you that you will sweat your balls off in the summer, and freeze your *** off in the winter...but if you are a dirt warshiper then thats the trade for you then

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by DieselBoy
so, what DO they want?

where do the newbies begin?


newbies and green help begin right where i began...working on the ditch...most likely any construction comany you get hired at will not put you on an excavating/grade crew right off the bat...you will start off being a pipe layer...i know this is where i started out...laying pipe...sewerline, waterline, and storm line...and i had the opportunity of bein with a good foreman that gave me a chance to learn and showed me what to do and let me get some hands on experience...then we got moved to a grading crew building a subdivision and roads and he let me get on the pan and cut in roads, and move dirt...

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by hskers82
The union I am in has an apprenticeship program to run all different types of equipment(it is a 3 year apprenticeship).Once you are done with your apprentice training you will more than likely get paid scale(it varies from state to state).I have applied for a job in Temecula(not far from you) and they start out at $25 hour for some experience and goes all the way up to $33 an hour for more experience.I got all of my training through good ol' uncle sam.I am not saying it was the best but it got my foot in the door.I would go to the school or check with the IUOE in your area(IUOE is International Union of Operating Engineers) and see what they have to offer.Just like everyone has said in this post experience is going to be the big factor.As far as learning an excavator in a day or two ,how many utilities were you digging by that were ripped out,I am sure it was all clear.That is one major part with getting experience is the longer you are on a machine the better you can "feel" anything underground.I dig water mains and can feel a 3/4" lead water line it just takes time and plenty of practice


yea i know there might be money to be made out there somewere running stuff like trackhoes...but not here in va...most big companys will want to send you out of town...English construction is a big company here on the eastcoast....they work pretty much the entire east coast...they do major roads, and big plant jobs...the company i work for we do no major work just local work...minder there is alot of money being shucked out...but our foremans are on salary...and most of our laborors are convicts or mexicans....


im just telling you that even with the schooling that aint gonna keep a shovel out of your hand...the one boy i was talking about in a previous post had schooling and right now the only thing he is operating is a shovel or a remote control trench roller...


and another thing if you dont like working in live sewage this is not the job for you because i have laid sewerlines with shyt and piss water pouring in on us...and its nasty to be perfectly honest with you...ive had to get down in the manholes and mortar them up...

[tw1976]

I am a member of the Operating Engineers Local 150. I think the best way to get training is through the apprentiship program or training site of a union hall. Going this route you learn to run many different pieces of equipment and you are much more valuable to an employer. And contrary to some other posts there is very good money to be made in this profession. In my district the current pay/benefit package is $55 an hour with nearly $40 an hour being on the check.

I work for one of the largest underground utility contractors in the country installing gas pipelines. I have run everything from trackhoes, backhoes, sidebooms, trenchers, cranes, skid loaders, and directional drilling equipment. I started at the bottom as a labor and worked my way up to operator and now to foreman. There is definately something to be said for going that route as well. If you start in the trench and then move up to operator you know what is being done and you can operate the machine in a manner to make the bottom mans job much easier.

There are also some people that should never operate equipment. It is hard to explain, but you just have to have a knack for it. You can try to teach some people but they never pick it up. For others it just comes much more naturally.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by tw1976
I started at the bottom as a labor and worked my way up to operator and now to foreman. There is definately something to be said for going that route as well. If you start in the trench and then move up to operator you know what is being done and you can operate the machine in a manner to make the bottom mans job much easier.

There are also some people that should never operate equipment. It is hard to explain, but you just have to have a knack for it. You can try to teach some people but they never pick it up. For others it just comes much more naturally.

exactly you started as labor now your a foreman....so you know what the man in the ditch goes thru and what a crummy operator can do to the man in the ditch...the wrong operator can work the hell out of the man in the ditch...and you know what its about...and like i said 2 you gotta have a knack for stuff like this...

i retract my prevous statement bout the pay aint that great...the pay is good depending on alot of things...

[Mechanix311]

I also run many different types of machinery. Their is hardly any money in it. I run the business with my father in law and things have deffinetely changed in the past years. With the price of fuel and insurance it is hardly worth it. Granted you just want to operate for another company so your situation will be different. It is alot of hard work even if you are an operator and you are responsible for alot of things. Their is cable, gas lines, water lines, sewer lines, power lines, thousands of pairs of phone cable and fiber optic lines in the ground and they all cost alot of money and can get you fired if you hit one. If you dont have a good locate company working by your side you could get harmed in a matter of no time. You do need practice but it will come and yes you will mess up. Its all part of the game. It is long hours and poor pay at first but i have seen guys making 25 dollars an hour. You will grow to hate everything yellow, deere, cat , case but they all make you a living. Learning is easy even if you switch from machine to machine. Almost all of the new backhoes and excavators have control pattern changers and are all pretty much going to the same two styles, John deere and cat controls. A very good machine to run and people who can run them well are rare is a blade or road grader. If you can blue top quick and are accurate you will be well off and in demand. Just my opinion

[DieselBoy]

how long were you the b1tch before u got put on the machines?

what other careers should I look into?

[RIDER11X]

Like any trade, you got to work through the ranks, unless you really know somebody. I'm an Electrician with 10 years on the job experiance. When I came out of school, I had a tough time getting my first break. when it came, it came with low pay and experiance. I was the guy working the crappy jobs, and making mistakes. But, I was fortunate to work with a really good electrician, that I learned alot from, and I was around alot of really valuable work experiances. By my 3rd year, I was responsible for my own crew, and the pay came along with it.

What I am saying is, put in your time in the trenches.....It's not fun, but down the road you will be glad you did, as you will have learned alot of valuable knowledge.;)

[MOFO]

Originally posted by DieselBoy
how long were you the b1tch before u got put on the machines?

what other careers should I look into?



Work you butt off... its different for everyone!

One guy might just cruise along and it will take him years and years...

Another guy might bust his arse and move up much faster.

[hskers82]

I was in the ditch for two years before I was able to get in the backhoe.Like everyone has said it takes time and the experience will come.Try to get "seat time " whenever the opportunity arises.As for the pay,I know for a fact here in St.Louis if you are a union operator you will start out making $22-$25 an hour.That is pretty good pay but you will work your **s off to earn that money.Long hours(sometimes 7 days a week) in hot or cold temps.I am lucky that all of the backhoes I run are air conditioned and heated but we also can work 16 hour shifts.I am on call right now(regular work day is 8am-4:30pm,and you can get called in at 12am and work until 4:30pm the next day),so you see it is not just sit in the seat for 8 hours and then go home.You will work alot.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by MOFO
Work you butt off... its different for everyone!

One guy might just cruise along and it will take him years and years...

Another guy might bust his arse and move up much faster.

Don't you mean "Another guy might kiss arse and move up much faster."????:confused: :devil:

[mrusk]

DO NOT GO TO ONE OF THOSE SCHOOLS! If you want to get alot of experience, do not go to the largest company and get a job. Look for a small company with 3-5 guys and you will proably get machine time in the first week unless you are a real knucklehead.

Matt

[jfarrar30]

i work for a decent size excavating company here in cleveland.when we hire we look for experiece mostly but training iss a big plus here as the goverment is requiring more and more certifications.the union hall i belong to (operating engineers local 18)has an apprentice program and a huge training facility to keep guys up to date.if you are looking to get into the excavating end of it there is ALOT to learn.it looks easy but to be a mainline hoeman you got to know every aspect of what you are doing.i started out in the laborers union for ten years laying pipe and that is what makes me one of the best mainline guys out there because i know what needs to be done down in the hole as well as digging it fastly and safely.theres alot to know from shoring to shelfing digging and locating utilities etc. etc. that you can not learn in a short period of time.digging a 30ft deep hole isnt as easy as it looks.not if everyone wants to go home safely.if your not into laboring and want to still be a hoeman my next reccomendation would be to start out as a loader man.a loader man has a lot of responsibilty to but atleast you will get some hands on training as how things go down.i would say definetly take the cours if you are looking to be on any goverment jobs specially if part of the course gets you certified in the osha training.good luck man.

[DieselBoy]

Thanks for the input everyone. The company who dug our pool hole said the difference with a trained operator with a certificate (issued by the government) is night and day for a company. He told me basically without the training it's much much too time consuming and dangerous to train someone who's never been in one, though he's had success, he trys to avoid hiring an untrained operator (unless they have experience. He almost never does.

He says just training someone to use the controls efficiently and safely take a considerable amount of time, and after that they're still at step 1 of 20. He just basically said for him to spend weeks training a guy to just operate it is not something they have time for, and the safety concerns are too high. Does this seem valid? To me, it does.

i've had experience on numerous skid steer loaders/tractors/transports/etc. I can operate a skid steer loader very, very efficiently. I operate one of the largest available. CASE 90XT/ASV R50/BOBCAT 753/Belarus/David brown/ford/international/etc.

[Mechanix311]

i was only in the ditch for a week or two. They gotta let you in the machine sometime. Just dont be a gustapo operator and you will be fine. The machines will break so dont beat them up. Most guys beat the hell out of these machines causing them to lose their positions.

[yamahonda]

when you go for a operating job you can bring a truck load of papers saying you are a cert operator ..but you wont get hired unless you can run a machine... cus they will say let go out see what you can do.. so the guy that has a natural talent will always get the job first.. ive seen guys go to school to run machines and the3y suck i dont think you can teach it .. it just have to get in there and learn it on your own.. as a say you either got it or you dont.. i had a city guy ask me one on a job "how long you go to school to run that.." i said never i just know how.. he said ohh i had to go to school to run this skidder.. i said either you have it or you dont no schooling here other then spending time with dad when i was lil...
i would do like the one guy said just go find a small company put time in and eventually they will slowly put you on machines...

[DieselBoy]

as stated before i'm experienced on a variety of machines. I think I was born to operate these machines, I therefore think I have the nick as i've been complimented many times on my ability to efficiently and effectively operate hydraulic machinery.

I've seen kids go to truck school for training, and some of them just don't have the nick for it, and they do miserable. The school will not give you the certificate (issued by government) unless you can demonstrate through testing that you can effectively operate it in a safe, and effective fashion. I would think 8-9 weeks in a trackhoe would be plenty to get the feel, the know how, and the basics to begin operating. Like the guy told me, you either got it or you dont. And its 1 very large step of 20 in operating these machines. And you don't just learn how to run it. you dig actual trenches, load actual dump trucks, do actual surveying, you do actual grading, and you do actual jobs.

I can feel small pipes, and what not while i'm in the loader just by feeling. i've watched coworkers rip stuff out and say oops, didn't see it, cause you can't see it until its too late most of the time.

And you can't tell me that one day your boss says heres the keys, go dig me a hole when youve never even sat in one, and had complete success. just the movements and manouvering takes alot of practice.

[x.system]

I went to one of these schools for training, I did more book work than anything. I think I spent maybe 40 hours on each machine over a years time. This included graders, scrapers, dozers, and excavators. 40 hours is nothing on a piece of equipment. It takes years to be eficient with a piece of equipment.

The schooling wasn't all bad, there were some things I learned that I now know as an operator I wouldn't have time to teach to a newbie like reading grade stakes or laying out a parking lot with correct grades for drainage. They were also very good at hounding you on maintainance and walk around inspections. A company that sees you taking very good care of their equipment is going to keep you around.

I also learned how to read and understand blueprints so that was a nice plus to the schooling. I think the schooling was way overpriced and if I had to do it over again I would have passed. I know the schooling did not open any doors for me. I ended up starting with a small company running scrapers, dozers and excavators, all of it was old junk to I might add. I really didn't care though, I was new and on a piece of equipment. I think I started at $9 an hour and spent the first summer digging lakes and ponds, pretty safe area to learn equipment. I moved on to learn road building for private sub divisions, laying pipe and catch basins. I was lucky, I had seniority by this time so I was the crane operator. I had a very good pipe crew that tought me what they expected of me. The less you make them work the better it is for you. I spent 7 years with this company, learning the ins and outs and when I left I was up to $18 an hour. I had stopped learning anything for a good year so I figured it was time to move on and learn something else in the field. Now I'm doing mostly basement digs, sewer and water hookup to new homes and new road construction. We do mostly residential but take on a comercial job here and there to keep it interesting and change it up a bit.

I only run excavator and dozer now and we mainly do $500,000 and up homes so a basement takes me a good 2 days to dig. My grade is always within a 1/2" to save the builder on concrete and to save the concrete crew lots of extra work. I know the concrete crews love coming to my digs, they hardly ever have to pick up a shovel. Everyone in this field knows how fast word spreads on a bad company or operator so you have to stay on top of your game.

I know most operators will not train anyone, Its a job security thing I think. I have trained 2 people sucessfully and another 2 or 3 that did not make it. It takes alot of time and patience to do it correctly and most people can't grasp what is actually needed for this type of work. I knew when I was 10 years old I wanted to do this type of work and when I finally got on a piece of equipment I was a natural. Now that I've been doing it for almost 20 years I make it look easy and it shows. I have people coming up to me all the time saying I make it look easy. I've had that happen before with a homeowner and then had them jump in the excavator and give it a shot, its fun to watch someone like this try to even get a full bucket of dirt in their first few tries. They definatly get out and know its not as easy as it looks.

Eficientcy is the name of the game these days with gas prices the way they are. We burn up hundreds of gallons of diesel every day so we have to make the equipment work every minute its running.

I will say anyone can run a piece of equipment, you could even learn it in a day but i can garantee you wont be eficient at it for a long time. I've seen other posts where someone can feel stuff underground while digging, this is true and takes many years of seat time.

My main machine is an excavator now, thats what I prefer to run. Anyone that runs one knows its fun to try and pick stuff up without damaging it. Finding old glass bottles underground and picking them up witout breaking them with a thumb attachment or setting steaks is a good challenge. Our Cat dealer puts on a compatition every year where we have to drop a bowling pin in different sized tubes with a excavator or pick up a basket ball and make a basket with it.

[RIDER11X]

I was on a job site where an excavator operator had to dig up and sort tires from inner tubes by picking each up and putting them in their own hoppers. He made it look very easy.:cool:

There was rubber over 12 feet deep in the ground about the size of a football field. Looked very tedious.