sparks timing key

[sburton1]

as any one here installed the sparks +6 timing key? is it hard to do? any notice in power and how long did it take ya thanks guys!

[yfzfelix]

Yes I have done it on our 2 ex's, how long it takes depends on your mechanical experence, should not take more than an hour if you know what your doing, you will feel a slight improvment, they are not reccomended for modded engines, get the white bros rev box with the timing key and you will feel a good improvment , you can buy the rev box from alba cheaper than white bros- go figure, do it!!

[GPracer2500]

I would think adding a timing advance key AND a WB cdi (which also advances the timing) could easily be too much advance.

[sburton1]

i forud the deatiled instructions for the instalation dosent look har d at all! is their a box that just raises the rev limiter +1000 and not the timing that would probly work well with the advance key. im guessing thanks for the help though!

[yfzfelix]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
I would think adding a timing advance key AND a WB cdi (which also advances the timing) could easily be too much advance. the wb rev bow does not advance your initial timing, that is what the offset key does, as your engine revs higher the timing needs to be advanced, thats what the rev box does, the wb rev bow just brings the advance in quicker for better performance, the box and the advanced key WILL work together, trust me

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by yfzfelix
the wb rev bow does not advance your initial timing, that is what the offset key does, as your engine revs higher the timing needs to be advanced, thats what the rev box does, the wb rev bow just brings the advance in quicker for better performance, the box and the advanced key WILL work together, trust me


Interesting. So your saying the WB box does not actually change the degrees of advance; just the RPM that the changeover (initial vs. final) takes place? I was always under the impression that the WB box (and similar) did actually add degrees of advance. Although, I must admit to never being able to find information on precisely what the change consisted of.

With the stock CDI I understand that the initial advance of 8 degrees switches to 27 degrees at 4200 rpm. What is the changeover point for the WB unit? Can you provide any links or contacts that corroborates exactly what the WB cdi does to the igintion curve?

thanks

[yfzfelix]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Interesting. So your saying the WB box does not actually change the degrees of advance; just the RPM that the changeover (initial vs. final) takes place? I was always under the impression that the WB box (and similar) did actually add degrees of advance. Although, I must admit to never being able to find information on precisely what the change consisted of.

With the stock CDI I understand that the initial advance of 8 degrees switches to 27 degrees at 4200 rpm. What is the changeover point for the WB unit? Can you provide any links or contacts that corroborates exactly what the WB cdi does to the igintion curve?

thanks I should have started my post with this is what I have been told and I might be completly wrong, all I know is that we have used the offset sparks key with the wb rev box and have had no issues at all but that was with no internal mods just pipe and jetting at sea level, maybe its different at a higher altitude, sorry if I misled anyone, my bad!!

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by yfzfelix
I should have started my post with this is what I have been told and I might be completly wrong, all I know is that we have used the offset sparks key with the wb rev box and have had no issues at all but that was with no internal mods just pipe and jetting at sea level, maybe its different at a higher altitude, sorry if I misled anyone, my bad!!

Hey, no worries. I've been frustrated by never being able to find out exactly what many of the common aftermarket CDIs do to the ignition curve. I've never considered that they don't actually increase the advance throughout the RPM range; but instead just begin the stock final advance at an earlier RPM without raising the maximum advance at the mid/upper ranges. That could very well be the case.

FWIW, the stock curve goes like this:

0 - 2,000 rpm: 8 degrees
2,000 - 4,000 rpm: linear increase from 8 degrees to ~26.5 degrees
4,000 - 4,200 rpm: increase from ~26.5 to 27 degrees
4,200 - ~6,800 rpm: 27 degrees
~6,800 - 9,100 rpm (rev limit): linear decrease from 27 degrees to ~25.8 degrees



My only evidence that the WB box [i]does actually raise the maximum advance in the mid/upper RPMs is from my experiences on my EX sand dragging with inadequate octane fuel. The engine was detonating fairly heavily with the WB cdi. I switched to my stock cdi and the detonation subsided somewhat. That would suggest the max ignition advance was reduced with the stock cdi. BUT, it is certainly possible that the reason the deto was reduced was not because of ign advance but because the engine had cooled somewhat between the test runs (maybe 2 minutes). Riding later in the day it was certainly continuing to deto with the stock cdi and I just assumed that if I went back to the WB cdi it would have just been worse. Now I'm questioning if my testing of the two boxes was really telling me what I thought it was....

[yfzfelix]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GPracer2500
Hey, no worries. I've been frustrated by never being able to find out exactly what many of the common aftermarket CDIs do to the ignition curve. I've never considered that they don't actually increase the advance throughout the RPM range; but instead just begin the stock final advance at an earlier RPM without raising the maximum advance at the mid/upper ranges. That could very well be the case.

FWIW, the stock curve goes like this:

0 - 2,000 rpm: 8 degrees
2,000 - 4,000 rpm: linear increase from 8 degrees to ~26.5 degrees
4,000 - 4,200 rpm: increase from ~26.5 to 27 degrees
4,200 - ~6,800 rpm: 27 degrees
~6,800 - 9,100 rpm (rev limit): linear decrease from 27 degrees to ~25.8 degrees



My only evidence that the WB box [i]does actually raise the maximum advance in the mid/upper RPMs is from my experiences on my EX sand dragging with inadequate octane fuel. The engine was detonating fairly heavily with the WB cdi. I switched to my stock cdi and the detonation subsided somewhat. That would suggest the max ignition advance was reduced with the stock cdi. BUT, it is certainly possible that the reason the deto was reduced was not because of ign advance but because the engine had cooled somewhat between the test runs (maybe 2 minutes). Riding later in the day it was certainly continuing to deto with the stock cdi and I just assumed that if I went back to the WB cdi it would have just been worse. Now I'm questioning if my testing of the two boxes was really telling me what I thought it was.... [/QUOTE do you think it could have been fuel related or were you running race gas?

[GPracer2500]

It was absolutely fuel related. That was the first dune trip on that build and I was not expecting to have deto problems on pump gas. I now run race gas in that engine.

Ignition timing contributes to the onset of detonation so I tested the two boxes hoping that running my stock box would get me by for the weekend.

[sburton1]

so which is better the over rev box or the timing key????

[cals400ex]

just get a gt thunder aggressive curve rev box. it will still start in winter, unlike the WB box. if you know your bike well, you will definatly feel a throttle response gain from this box. plus, you get the extra rpms as well. with the timing key it is a little more difficult to adjust valves because the TDC mark on your flywheel is not exact anymore, with the aftermarket key in place.

[sburton1]

just went to gt thunders web site they dont have a rev box any where on that site for the 400 any one know where i can get one? and i wonder if its better than the sparks rev box? thanks guys

[cals400ex]

infinately better than the sparks box. the sparks box is just like the white brothers.........junk. now, gt thunder makes a few different rev boxes for the 400ex. the aggressive curve will be a little harder to start and will have a little irratic idle but its notthing to worry about. the less aggressive curve box starts and idles perfect and it also has the raised rev limit. so its your call. you will notice a throttle response gain from the aggressive box if you know your bike now. just get on www.gtthunder.com and email or call Laz, the owner. he emails you back pretty quick if he is near his computer.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by cals400ex
just get a gt thunder aggressive curve rev box. it will still start in winter, unlike the WB box. if you know your bike well, you will definatly feel a throttle response gain from this box. plus, you get the extra rpms as well. with the timing key it is a little more difficult to adjust valves because the TDC mark on your flywheel is not exact anymore, with the aftermarket key in place.


agreed!

[81 clark racing]

wont that be to much adv with the key an rev box? i wanted 2 do thgat but everyone told me it wouldnt work an cause my motor to blow do to heat?

Originally posted by yfzfelix
Yes I have done it on our 2 ex's, how long it takes depends on your mechanical experence, should not take more than an hour if you know what your doing, you will feel a slight improvment, they are not reccomended for modded engines, get the white bros rev box with the timing key and you will feel a good improvment , you can buy the rev box from alba cheaper than white bros- go figure, do it!!