How old is old enough? [Archive]

FourFiftyFour

08-05-2006, 06:58 AM

There is a website I ran across once while doing some research. I think it was for a school paper, and it was about old crime stories. There was a whole section about kids who killed...it was terrible..there was this little 10 year old girl who murdered a baby and laughed about it. There were also 2 12 year old boys who kidnapped a 2 year old child and then hurt him and left him to die on a railroad track. Stuff like this never crossed my mind as a child... for that to cross the mind of the child they must be mentally deranged. First I think they definitely would need to go through some assessment as one said and then go from there. For children like that, I think they should get a more serious punishment and such...but maybe not tried as adults if they are THAT young...I read on those stories that those kids (now adults) have changed beyond belief. I think it depends on the person, their mentality, and how well they are developed at whatever age they are.

There was my $5 lol

08-05-2006, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
I just watched a show where an 11 year old boy was charged and found guilty of murder.

I know alot depends on the crime, the back ground, the varying degree's of just about every aspect of the case, but what do you feel is the age to which a juvenile is to be held accountable for adult actions?

well i bet he was black and killed whoever at 1pm in the morning

Pappy

08-05-2006, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by mjpridered10
well i bet he was black and killed whoever at 1pm in the morning

Yes, the particuliar show was centered around a case in Pontiac Michigan and the child was black. It could have easily been another case where the child was white. I have read other cases, the child was white and a brick was used on a 2 year old in broad daylight. Lets not over look the rash of white killers and schools. Murder doesnt wear the racist name tag.

derekhonda

08-05-2006, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by mjpridered10
1pm in the morning

:confused:

08-05-2006, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
Yes, the particuliar show was centered around a case in Pontiac Michigan and the child was black. It could have easily been another case where the child was white. I have read other cases, the child was white and a brick was used on a 2 year old in broad daylight. Lets not over look the rash of white killers and schools. Murder doesnt wear the racist name tag.

very true but i cant stand when i hear on the news:

mother and her two sons die when crossing the street at night to go to the laundrimat...and then you hear it was a 11 year old and a 2 year old with their mother and they were going at 1pm

wtf are they doing up at that time? she couldnt do it at another time?

theres also other ones where they die because they were on the street at 2pm and were shot...

what are they doing there at that time??...

idk, sometimes it gets to me, im glad i could blow off my steam :p

Quad Boy 660r

08-05-2006, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Guy400
If he's old enough to pull the trigger than he's old enough to pay the piper.

I agree.

Outlaw 50

08-05-2006, 09:17 AM

If a person is old enough to commit a crime they are old enough to be punished for it. I don't buy any of the psychological crap out there. That stuff is all a bunch of social maxism as far as I'm concerned.
I'm tired of people making excuses for others to do things that we as a society have deemed wrong and illegal!
This crap about looking at each case and analizing each individual is BS! It all looks to me like a way to get away with crap and take the teeth out of our laws.
Without strong laws this society will collapse into anarchy.This is what the ACLU is all about. ( ACLU stands for" Aging Comunist Leftover Union") This organization was founded by an avowed comunist and to this day seeks to destroy our nation by weakening our ability to legistrate what is right and what is wrong.
The entire legal system is based on the 10 commandments and look how far they have gotten in putting them out of the public eye!

All we ever get out of these people is the lie about seperation of church and state and that certain things are in a grey area.(whatever that means)

As far as I'm concerned the world is not grey. It is all very clear and there is definately a difference between what is right and what is wrong.

Nothing against Pappy and meaning no disrespect but the fact that the 1st question on this thread was asked is testiment to the fact that they are doing a damn fine job of blurring the lines between right and wrong in the eyes of the public.
Be careful what you ignore, it won't go away. It will come back around and bite you in the ***! I know my spelling sucks but this kind of crap makes me mad.

Outlaw 50

08-05-2006, 09:21 AM

In addition to my other response I would like to know what tv show covered the story and who produced it if anyone knows?

NorCalRacer

08-05-2006, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by Guy400
If he's old enough to pull the trigger than he's old enough to pay the piper.

Exactly. Dead is dead, no matter who pulled the trigger....

quadsquadron221

08-05-2006, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by mjpridered10
well i bet he was black and killed whoever at 1pm in the morning

Man i hear that. When i was younger and thats not been that long ago. I remember when there we not any blacks in our town. Crime was very very low, people could leave their houses unlocked everything was nice. Then the govt. started importing them from a big city or somthing. And other just migrated with them i guess. Crime is way up. They are always causing problems and breaking into places at all times of the night. Never see them working anywhere, probably just living off wellfare. There always riding around in 200 dollar cars hooting and hollering all the time. I just dont know why the govt. would move people down from a city because they cant behave there. Just bull****. Not that none of the whites dont cause problems. Just not near what these blacks being imported cause. Its not like they are coming in and contributing to the community or working or anything. They are just here to cause problems.

08-05-2006, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by derekhonda
:confused:

sorry smart***** ...1am in the morning

nosliw

08-05-2006, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Guy400
If he's old enough to pull the trigger than he's old enough to pay the piper.

yep.

if we don't catch and convict them young, we'll just be waiting on the killing-spree he will no doubt have in the future.

<DRS>GPF

08-05-2006, 11:49 AM

How old is old enough?

hard to say.. i could see children that just dont have the concept of life and death until that moment..

accident? on purpose? call it bad parenting, call it pre-psychotic behavior.. whatever it is, the child may not have understood the difference from their video games or television.. until just then..

are they still guilty?

im not there to say.. ill have no idea, what the mindset of the child had been before that moment..

you can be sure theyll never be the same..

earlier someone mentioned the 2 boys that took the 2 or 3yr old, beat him and threw the body on the tracks was in England years ago.
I remember that they beat him with rocks.

without question they were guilty of a heinous crime..

i remember a few years back there was controversy over their release under new identities etc.

life is truly not fair..

Plante400

08-05-2006, 11:57 AM

lol so there is some racism going on here....

quadsquadron221

08-05-2006, 12:28 PM

whites who dont like sombody that not white= racism,hate

blacks who dont like anybody thats not black= socially acceptable

Bull**** like that makes me so mad. An example, i was in class one day and there were five or six black kids in the back making all kinds of noise. Two had on headphones and were rapping. The others were just hooting amoungst themselves very very loudly. I was in the front of the room and it was so distracting and loud that i couldnt hear the profs lecture. The prof asked them several times to be quiet because people couldnt hear and they were dissrupting the class. After several warnings the nonsense didnt stop. The prof asked them to leave the class. They try to charge him with some kind of hate crime racist crap because they were kicked out of class. Luckily it didnt work. I just dont understand why you are a racist because you asked trouble makers to leave your lecture and they happend to be black.

One last example. We hired a black employee one time. We fired him two weeks later and he tried to do some discrimination ****. Of course we fired him because he was black. He failed to mention the fact that he never made it to work on time and continued to do things against company policy even after being warned several times. Or the fact that he inapropriatly touch a female customer who could have sued us for harrasment. No it must be that im just racist and thats why i fired him. Not that i would have had to fire anybody no matter what color they were had they acted in the same way.

bruteforce750

08-05-2006, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Guy400
If he's old enough to pull the trigger than he's old enough to pay the piper. exactly:chinese:

coolex

08-05-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Plante400
lol so there is some racism going on here....

yup

and i would have to know the circumstances to know how old is to old

Warnerade

08-05-2006, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by mjpridered10
sorry smart***** ...1am in the morning I would not call him a smartass...honestly BOTh fo your posts confuse me...

what is a mother and her two kids doing out on the streets at 2pm? Doing her luandry in broad daylight, bucko. You mean late at night or early in the morning, say AM. The keys are on other sides of the keyboard...

JKWGA400EX

08-05-2006, 09:04 PM

i agree,a bit racist is an understatement,but hey,atleast people change sometimes.

-jared

LTZ400rider

08-05-2006, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by derekhonda
:confused:

if your black 1pm is when you wake up, so he is right it is morning

quad2xtreme

08-06-2006, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Ralph
i think 11 is just fine, most kids should have better reasoning than that. Especially at the rate kids are growing up today.

I think it also has to do with how they are brought up. But if they are that screwed up at such a young age, imagine what they would do if they were older?

Not picking on you Ralph but I disagree with your implying kids today are growing up at a faster rate...

I think it is the opposite...kids have more knowledge about sex and drugs but they are not growing up faster. I was a fairly responsible adult when I was 13 and pretty much self-supporting by the time I was 16 except for paying rent. I wasn't an extreme case...most of my friends and others I went to school with were the same. I left home by 19, put myself through college by working and borrowing, and have never moved back home. Even the kids today who go to college often return home, still can't grasp the idea of having a boss or a job, etc. Kids of today are far from growing up faster than those in the 60s & 70s.

Can parents be over involved in their children's lives? Hell Yea! The reason I was so independent is my parents weren't there solving all of my problems for me. I wasn't the center of my parents lives...they had plenty of other interests and kids. All I can say to all the parents out there is think about how your life revolves around your kid's life. And then when you are away from your kids...all you can talk about is them. You suck and that is why your old friends don't like being around you any more!!!

/Jon

Iliketogofast

08-06-2006, 06:45 AM

I think it depends heavily on the context of the crime. If this kid murdered someone just to be doing it, then yeah. He really should be put into corrections, at least until he is 18.

However, if this kid was killing in self defense, or to protect himself from mental anguish, or something along those lines (like if he was molested all of the time by the person) then he should not have been guilty.

True, he still killed someone no matter what the context. But, we don't know the circumstances.

Warnerade

08-06-2006, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Not picking on you Ralph but I disagree with your implying kids today are growing up at a faster rate...

I think it is the opposite...kids have more knowledge about sex and drugs but they are not growing up faster. I was a fairly responsible adult when I was 13 and pretty much self-supporting by the time I was 16 except for paying rent. I wasn't an extreme case...most of my friends and others I went to school with were the same. I left home by 19, put myself through college by working and borrowing, and have never moved back home. Even the kids today who go to college often return home, still can't grasp the idea of having a boss or a job, etc. Kids of today are far from growing up faster than those in the 60s & 70s.

Can parents be over involved in their children's lives? Hell Yea! The reason I was so independent is my parents weren't there solving all of my problems for me. I wasn't the center of my parents lives...they had plenty of other interests and kids. All I can say to all the parents out there is think about how your life revolves around your kid's life. And then when you are away from your kids...all you can talk about is them. You suck and that is why your old friends don't like being around you any more!!!

/Jon to sum that up in a few words...

kids today THINK they are growing up faster.

xXx*PREDATOR*xXx

08-06-2006, 10:19 AM

It all depends on the child and the parenting, the way it always has. If you have a parent pushing the child to work and show responsibility, of course they are going to mature more quickly. Just in many cases (not all) parents aren't as hard nosed as they used to be. I really cant critisize parents because I am only 18. I am just saying I somewhat understand what you guys are saying. My father has pushed me to work and show responsibility since I was 13. Whether it be from showing extra work in the class room, taking extra time to practice sports, doing yard work, or when I was 16 I got a job. I always had to work more than others to prove not to everyone else, but to myself, when it is time for me to move into my college dorm this Friday, I will be able to make it on my own.

quad2xtreme

08-06-2006, 10:27 AM

Kudos to you and your parents Predator, you will thank them when you arrive at college and realize how far ahead of the game you already are. Unfortunately, your parents are in a major minority nowadays.

/Jon

wilkin250r

08-06-2006, 03:55 PM

There are a lot of issues to look at. I think most of us can agree that an 11yr old is capable of understanding right and wrong, so punishment is indeed in order.

But is he able to be tried as an adult? To answer that, you may need to take it a step further. Is he capable of being punished as an adult? Can you throw an 11yr old into a prison along side full-grown rapists and murderers? Those people aren't nice, they're not going to nuture him or take him under their wing. An 11yr old simply does not have the mental capacity to defend himself in that environment.

Yet, at the same time, I don't think it's an issue you can ignore. Ordinarily, when somebody is tried as a juvenile, those records are sealed and cannot be accessed when the child becomes an adult. I don't think you can allow that to happen. A crime this heinous cannot simply "dissapear" when this child turns 18. It has to follow him the rest of his life, so that the proper measures can be taken if a pattern emerges. If he is convicted of stalking at age 20, this crime has to be there in order to protect the potential victim. Authorities need to know how dangerous he is, or else he may only get a slap on the wrist and be set free.

Pappy

08-06-2006, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Outlaw 50

Nothing against Pappy and meaning no disrespect but the fact that the 1st question on this thread was asked is testiment to the fact that they are doing a damn fine job of blurring the lines between right and wrong in the eyes of the public.
.

LOL..I didnt take a position either way on the issue, I just merely was looking for other views:p You may have read into my asking as me being someo how sympathetic, and you would be incorrect.

Pappy

08-06-2006, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
In addition to my other response I would like to know what tv show covered the story and who produced it if anyone knows?

It was called American Justice, not sure of the channel.

The boy in the show was a suspect in 22 other "incidents" involving the police. They ranged from robbery, to arson and home invasion. At that point I knew there was alot of issues with this kid.

The judge in the case took the guilty verdict from the jury and told the court that he would be sent to a juvenile detention center until he was 18, and then the case would be re evaluated.

He also blamed society for allowing the type of life the child grew up in...which I geuss is another issue in itself.

I also left out alot of the details because i figured I would get the responses we have here. This could have ended with the details being he found his dads rifle, was playing with it and fired it where upon it struck someone a block away. Funny how our true feelings come out when all the facts are not known.

Pappy

08-06-2006, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by mjpridered10
very true but i cant stand when i hear on the news:

mother and her two sons die when crossing the street at night to go to the laundrimat...and then you hear it was a 11 year old and a 2 year old with their mother and they were going at 1pm

wtf are they doing up at that time? she couldnt do it at another time?

theres also other ones where they die because they were on the street at 2pm and were shot...

what are they doing there at that time??...

idk, sometimes it gets to me, im glad i could blow off my steam :p

Do you realize that a large portion of the lower class works nightshifts? 1 am is not unusual to find people from all classes out and about. Are you astonished when you read that at 3 am a drunk crossed the line and killed a man that was on his way home from work, or a nurse on her way to work? Using your logic, both had no business even being anywhere but at home.

440racer66

08-06-2006, 06:59 PM

no because if they are gonna treat kids like adults they should have the same rites to marrage smoking drinking armed forces and wel guns if you are gonna trya minor like an adult then minors should no longer have to be held back by anything else

Outlaw 50

08-08-2006, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
It was called American Justice, not sure of the channel.

The boy in the show was a suspect in 22 other "incidents" involving the police. They ranged from robbery, to arson and home invasion. At that point I knew there was alot of issues with this kid.

The judge in the case took the guilty verdict from the jury and told the court that he would be sent to a juvenile detention center until he was 18, and then the case would be re evaluated.

He also blamed society for allowing the type of life the child grew up in...which I geuss is another issue in itself.

I also left out alot of the details because i figured I would get the responses we have here. This could have ended with the details being he found his dads rifle, was playing with it and fired it where upon it struck someone a block away. Funny how our true feelings come out when all the facts are not known.
I have watched that show on A&E before.(American Justice)
Knowing the rest of the story doesn't change my opinion on this subject.
Some of the responses on this thread are very enlightening and give insite into the character of some of the people who have posted on this thread.
The way this subject was changed to a racial problem is pretty scary!
IMO some of these guys should keep there mouths and keyboards shut! Sometimes the best response to things that you don't have all the details on is no response.

Outlaw 50

08-08-2006, 05:40 AM

The fact that the show, American Justice is shown on the A&E channel is enough to make any opinion expressed on the show subject to question.
This network is a joint venture between the Hearst corp, ABC inc, And NBC. All of these entities are pretty much pro world and anti American in the majority of there products.
Hearst Corp is about as left wing and liberal as a newsprint company can be. As far as ABC and NBC talk about propaganda networks, these 2 as members of the drive-by media, have no credibility whatsoever!
IMO anything that is produced by them is generally skewed so far left that it lacks any amount of credibility!

gbcap

08-08-2006, 06:42 AM

if they are old enough to commit the crime they are old enough to do the time.

on the other hand. at 11 years old it might still be possible to get a decent person out of that head. with the right therapy and upbringing from this point on he might have a chance. i wish we tried more to 'cure' people of these kind of actions instead of just writing them off. atleast at that age. i mean there is a point at which you just can't do anything more and just need to keep that person in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. BUT MAKE THEM WORK FOR THEIR INCARSIRATION. they need to do jobs to pay for thier housing of we should be able to put them to death. why should we have to pay to keep them behind bars and give them cable and a college education and 3 square meals a day when all they have done for society is harm.

get that kid help and see if we can do something about it.

back to the age thing. i hate to see that a kid can steal something at 17 and get away with minor punishment and then it is wiped clear 'essentially' when he turns 18. cause we can't look back at his record anyway. screw that, if they can drive they can make rational decisions. so we are starting kids driving at 15 right? so a 'juvinelle' should be 15....but wait we can start working at 14...so maybe it hsould be there. if we can work we can make our own decisions.

NorCalRacer

08-08-2006, 10:10 AM

I agree with Wilkins, we can't put them in normal jail, maybe a youth authority? But, I don't think the age matters so much as the intent. A boy playing with a gun is not malicious, while a child beating a toddler and leaving him on the train tracks is intentional. I don't care about the age, It's all the same if your wife is shot by a 10 year old or senior citizen , she's still dead. The outcome is the same, so the punishment should be the same. This sounds harsh, but murderers are pretty harsh themselves.