shes got power..but not where i need it

[bscott6]

I just got my 450r today and it flies for sure with that HRC kit...but I hate first gear it barely pulls up my ramps..and taking off in awkward places is extremely annoying. Everyone that i let ride it was complaining about it. So im gonna go to the Honda shop tomorrow and get a sprocket..should i just get 1 tooth down up front or should i get a few teeth up in the back as well? I have never seen the reason to have a quad go 80-85 mph anyways.

[firefighterjosh]

I have rode some 450rs and yes first gear can be a pain, but I would just ride it, you will get ust to it. If you really want to gear it I would go down a tooth in the front. Cheap way to see if you like it. If it is too much then go with up 4 in the rear. I think every tooth you go down in the front is like going up 7 in the rear.

[Quadster450]

Originally posted by bscott6
but I hate first gear it barely pulls up my ramps..and taking off in awkward places is extremely annoying.

strange. typically honda's are known for the low end pull and the yfz being known to lack. mine has a pretty even powerband, with the mid to top being incredible but not lacking in first. I'd be curious if the gearing helps

[911]

down 1 in front is like going up 2 in the rear!!!!!:rolleyes:

[911]

btw this an 04 or 05 right?? my 04 was the same but my 06 is spot on, and a front change (1 down ) will sig. help

[jtjpilot]

I would highly suggest dropping a tooth in the front. I have an 06 and stock front is 13tooth and I still thought it was bit to high so I dropped it to a 12tooth and now it is perfect. It's alot easier to change the front sprocket than the rear sprocket too.

[Punk'd]

Drop down a tooth on the front sprocket.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by 911
down 1 in front is like going up 2 in the rear!!!!!:rolleyes:

R u sure? I am about positive one down in the front is like going 7 up in the rear.

[DirtDevilBT]

Thought 1=4?

You see people running 2 teeth larger on the rear and one smaller on the front. That way it is inbetween a 13 and 14 on the 04/05.

Don't really know though, maybe. But my 04 with it's 14 was a bit large, the 13 helped a lot. The power is there but the first gear is quite overwelming. You may find yourself going back after you get some more power down low like with a piston.

[d3ktrix]

Dropping 1 tooth in the front should be more then enough.
When I first got my bike I also thought first gear was kind of tall with the HRC cam.
But now that I also have a pipe, the bike is putting out so much power and wants to hit the rev limiter so fast I feel that I could acutally use some higher gearing. =)

[accorracer]

Originally posted by firefighterjosh
R u sure? I am about positive one down in the front is like going 7 up in the rear.

no its not the same 1 tooth in the front is the same as 2.5 in the rear, look at a gearing calculator on line. definetly not the same as 7

[tltcracing]

i have 18's in the rear. would the 13 toother make it too low?

[HAVOK]

My 04 with HRC kit and a 13 is to low. I 'am never in 1st gear and it always revving off the rev limiter. I think one tooth down up front is two much but most people like it. I ride BIG hill cliimbs with stock gearing with no problem. I'am about to order a new chain and sprokets and I 'am going to try 14/39.

[400exrider707]

A sprocket just fools the motor into thinking it has more bottom end, when in reality the power curve hasn't really changed. If you really want to get rid of that problem, try a heavier flywheel from trailtech. Also one tooth in the front is closer to 3, its actually something like 2.7 or somewhere in that area. accorracer was the closest.

[JW450R1]

i changed the front sprocket on my r too.when i went to a full exhaust system and rejetted,thats when i saw the most in that first gear issues.from what i've been told by engine builders that the 450rneed more torue for lower end.well the full exhaust helped me out the most

[bscott6]

so today was busy and i forgot to get a sprocket...hell ive had this quad for 2 days and only rode it about an hour tops...its an 05 found it leftover in my friends honda shop. anyways...is stock 14t?

[jtjpilot]

yep

[DirtDevilBT]

O, I didn't know it was so new. Give it some time to break in a little more. Things will loosen up some and the rings will seat better over the next couple several hours. I remember riding my R for the first time and keep stalling it cause it was so tall and the clutch/engine wasn't worn in yet, but it will get better. I still ended up going to at 13 tooth when I went to Glamis and just never took it off. I am looking to go back soon though when I put a new chain on.

[Smidgy]

knowing what your gear ratio is the key to finding out how many teeth equal how many teeth. It is actually quite simple. You count the teeth on your front sprocket, lets say you got 14. Then count the teeth on your back sprocket, lets say you got 42 for simplicity. that means you got a 14:42 tooth ratio, that can be brought down to a 1:3 tooth so that way you know that 1 front tooth equals 3 back teeth. Trust me I do this wildly hard stuff for a living.

[Smidgy]

The hole reason that we have different size sporckets is to keep the strain off of the gearbox. When you go 2:1 or 3:1 through your sprockets, you are there by reducing the output speed of your gearbox, this will allow you to run a LIGHTER AND SMALLER(witch is extremely important on quads) gearbox. It also increases the output torque throught the sprockets(NOT ENGIONE TORQUE), so if your gearbox will only handle say 500 ft- lbs of torque on the output shaft. Going through the sprockets will actually multiply your gear ratio to that. so if you have a 2.7:1 gear ratio then you gearbox could now handle 500*2.7=1350ft-lbs. This is extremely important to people who race on ashpault or drag there bikes, because if you mod your sprockets then you may be into breaking your gearbox, which can be very expensive.

Originally posted by Smidgy
The hole reason that we have different size sporckets is to keep the strain off of the gearbox. When you go 2:1 or 3:1 through your sprockets, you are there by reducing the output speed of your gearbox, this will allow you to run a LIGHTER AND SMALLER(witch is extremely important on quads) gearbox. It also increases the output torque throught the sprockets(NOT ENGIONE TORQUE), so if your gearbox will only handle say 500 ft- lbs of torque on the output shaft. Going through the sprockets will actually multiply your gear ratio to that. so if you have a 2.7:1 gear ratio then you gearbox could now handle 500*2.7=1350ft-lbs. This is extremely important to people who race on ashpault or drag there bikes, because if you mod your sprockets then you may be into breaking your gearbox, which can be very expensive.

With all that technical talk, it sounds like you know what you're talking about. Although, I'm not sure what an "ENGIONE" is. Lol. J/K.

Anyway, the guy is not looking at dropping 3 teeth on the front, or going 40 on the back. We're only talking a couple teeth. Yes, yes, I know. A couple teeth can make a huge difference. But, I haven't seen any tranny's break due to a slightly smaller sprocket.

So, go down 1 tooth on the front and up 1 on the back. That's what I did. Still clears the skid plate and has better low end power without losing as much top end as going down 2 on the front.

[Pappy]

1 tooth down on the front sprocket seems to make most folks happy, especially if they trail ride or do not find themselves at WFO in 5th gear very much.

On my 04 I did like it at first, but felt it took too much speed away...again, thats seat of the pants at work nothing scientific:p

[bscott6]

yea i agree about the 5th gear WFO...i just picked up a 13t. If i really feel the need to outrun someone on the highway or a huge field ill swap the 14t sprocket back on. Besides..what is peoples obsession with top speed? if i lose 5-10 mph top speed I wont ever notice it on a trail or track. I would notice if i lost 10-15 ft/lb of output torque though.

[Smidgy]

Originally posted by force
With all that technical talk, it sounds like you know what you're talking about. Although, I'm not sure what an "ENGIONE" is. Lol. J/K.

Anyway, the guy is not looking at dropping 3 teeth on the front, or going 40 on the back. We're only talking a couple teeth. Yes, yes, I know. A couple teeth can make a huge difference. But, I haven't seen any tranny's break due to a slightly smaller sprocket.

So, go down 1 tooth on the front and up 1 on the back. That's what I did. Still clears the skid plate and has better low end power without losing as much top end as going down 2 on the front.

Sorry about the spelling, but yea there is a reason that nobody breaks trannies, but I am not going to get into that tho right now. A lot of engineer mumbo jumbo factors of safety and such, but one tooth isn't very substantial. I wouldn't worry in the slightest about hurting anything in your tranny. But if you were running a pumped up 520r on the drag strip or something stupid, and had it so it hooked up on the line, then gearing becomes a pretty big issue, but this is besides the point.

What is actually happenign is that you are increasing your gear ratio thru your sprockets, therefore lightening the load on your gearbox. Moral of the story going down a tooth in the front is actually easier on your gearbox.

[Kenpo1]

My 05 had the same 1st gear lug when I bought it...it sucked. A 13T front sprocket and a jet kit for the stock carb fixed it right up. FWIW I have been told that 1 down in front is equal to 3 up in the rear.

[fatkid400]

I have an 06 with a FMF full system a first my bottom got alot worse when I put the pipe on.Dropped 1 tooth on the front and its perfect:D And 1 tooth on front = 2 on rear.

[35charlie]

Originally posted by fatkid400
IAnd 1 tooth on front = 2 on rear.

Actually, like 400exrider707 said, it's more like 2.7 on the rear.

Say you start with 14T on the front and drop 1. That's loosing 1/14 or 7.1%. 7.1% of the 38 teeth on the rear is 2.71.

If you start with 13T (isn't the 06 stock with 13?), 1/13 is 7.7% or 2.92 "rear" teeth.

[450rkydude]

what the one guy said was dead on about it being new and not broke in,mine was the same stalling out everywhere on everyone that rode it,give her a good 2 days rideing and it will be a lot better.bone stock 13t front and 38t rear is a great combo,but when you pipe and jet you will be in the revlimiter all the time and will actually slow you down,trust me on this ive tryed both and the 14/38 gearing is the winning ticket for drags and topend,maybe not for mx though not sure what you ride.but as long as your bone stock i would def buy a 13t front,best of all its only a 5-10 change,and will only affect your topend 3 maybe 4 mph.

[Kenpo1]

Originally posted by 450rkydude
what the one guy said was dead on about it being new and not broke in,mine was the same stalling out everywhere on everyone that rode it,give her a good 2 days rideing and it will be a lot better.bone stock 13t front and 38t rear is a great combo,but when you pipe and jet you will be in the revlimiter all the time and will actually slow you down,trust me on this ive tryed both and the 14/38 gearing is the winning ticket for drags and topend,maybe not for mx though not sure what you ride.but as long as your bone stock i would def buy a 13t front,best of all its only a 5-10 change,and will only affect your topend 3 maybe 4 mph.

I played with gearing and when I had a pipe and jetting my bike would have trouble pulling a big hill in third with 14/39 gearing. I now have a 52WHP combination and the bike still rides better with 13/39 over 14/39. Like you said, its all a matter of riding style and preference.

[korniev]

I have the opposite problem! I had 14/38 setup on my YFZ with 20 tires so when I changed to 19 tires I completely stopped using first gear on my bike! Do you think changing that rear to 37 will help?

[Smidgy]

yes it will help, I could tell you if a 37 is the answer if you told me the exact front gear you have, and what you had when you liked it(tire size plus gearing) I will work it out for you and post it if u can give me the info

[Smidgy]

Right now from the info i got here is what I suggest

14/38 = 2.71 gear ratio

14/37 = 2.64 gear ratio

19" tires have a circumference of 59.69"
20" tires have a circumference of 62.83"

First you had an axle rpm of 100rpm/2.71 x 62.83 = 2318.45 we will call this number "X"

If you goto a 37 tooth rear you will have with your 19" tires 100rpm/2.64 x 59.69 = 2260.98 for an "X" number which is still a little ways off.

if you went with a 14/36 tooth setup with your 19" tires you would get
14/36 = 2.57 gear rato

100rpm/2.57 x 59.69 = 2322.56 which is smidgin higher than what you had with 20" tires.

So this is what we have learned here, with a 37 tooth rear sprocket you are only going to get about half way to where you were with 20" tires, a 36 tooth rear will pretty much be the same as what you have with your 20" ers

[35charlie]

There's a simpler way to get there. Start with 20" tires and lose 1". That's almost the same as starting with a 38T sprocket and losing 2T.

In other words, 1/20 is about 2/38.

[Smidgy]

That actually doesn't work, because you are actually loosing a difference in circumference which justifies the gearing from tires.

a 19" tire has a circumference that is 59.7"
a 20" tire has a circumference that is 62.8"

So really you are loosing 62.8 to 59.7 or about 3.1"

That means that you could do this, 3.1/62.8 = whatever that does but i no longet think that it is simpler

[CMPX3]

If I can i'll throw one more ? in there since we are on the subject. I havean '06 that came W/ the stock 13 front. My ? is did they change the internal tranny gearing also or is it geared jut like the04/05 but just comes w/ the 13? I have the same prob. w/ my 1st gear but would me going to the12 be like you guys w/ the04/05 going to the 13?

[Smidgy]

are you saying that you don't use your first gear. If you are, going to a 14 would make a substantial difference. I am unsure if they changed the gearing in the tranny, but I imagine that they are atleast similar

[CMPX3]

No I use my 1st gear, I just knew 04/05's came w/ a 14 and the'06 a 13 and I have the same prob with my 1st gear being to high and riding the clutch all the time. So I was wondering if the guys that are putting 13's on thier 04/05's to fix thier "too tall first gear" were then at the same ratio as the '06.

[Kenpo1]

Originally posted by CMPX3
No I use my 1st gear, I just knew 04/05's came w/ a 14 and the'06 a 13 and I have the same prob with my 1st gear being to high and riding the clutch all the time. So I was wondering if the guys that are putting 13's on thier 04/05's to fix thier "too tall first gear" were then at the same ratio as the '06.

The internal gearing on an 06 is different than on the 04/05. The internal gearing on the 06 is closer together than on the 04/05.

[trost66]

On my 04 the first gear was way to tall but when I put he 18 inch tires on I didn't even use first any more. I always started out in second holeshots and everything.

[35charlie]

Did you mean my 1/20 to 2/38 comparison doesn't work? Of course it does. Circumference scales exactly the same as diameter (hence the 'pi' constant). So 1/20 is about the same as 3.1/62.8 which is close to 2/38. Seems quite simple to me.



Originally posted by Smidgy
That actually doesn't work, because you are actually loosing a difference in circumference which justifies the gearing from tires.

a 19" tire has a circumference that is 59.7"
a 20" tire has a circumference that is 62.8"

So really you are loosing 62.8 to 59.7 or about 3.1"

That means that you could do this, 3.1/62.8 = whatever that does but i no longet think that it is simpler

[korniev]

Originally posted by trost66
On my 04 the first gear was way to tall but when I put he 18 inch tires on I didn't even use first any more. I always started out in second holeshots and everything.

I think this is also wrong! U need to have 1st gear otherwise your 5th gear becomes inefficient (especially on a streight parts of a track)

[Smidgy]

Yea It works good if you are going down in gearing. What about if you are going up