ATVers vs Nature Lovers .

[Quad18star]

Here's an article from our local newspaper . I get home from an awesome weekend , grab the paper and this is what I read . :grr:

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ATVers get bad rap with nature lovers

Date Published | July 27, 2006


While ATVs are fun to ride, they are causing concerns for rural residents and those in the outlying communities.

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BY BILL BRADLEY

Residents and law enforcement officers are becoming increasingly more concerned about the misuse of all terrain vehicles (ATVs) in bush country and Greater Sudbury streets.


“We are seeing a lot of damage by ATVs running rampant all over this area,” said Paul Merrifield, a property owner in the Lake Agnew area.


“On some weekends there are hundreds of machines. This seems to be a gathering place for them. They run roughshod over the area and they don’t care what they do.”


Merrifield said there is a trout stream near his residence that is being affected by ATVs.


“This is a pristine little stream. Around here people really enjoy it for its natural beauty. Now there are these big lumbering ATVs running directly in the stream throwing up sediment and just making a mess out of it. It seems they use the water to clean off their machines but they are probably putting oil and grease into the water too.”


Merrifield has tried calling the Ministry of Environment, Ministry of Natural Resources, and even the police.


“I made calls but got nowhere. Either officials do not have the person power to police the back country or they don’t make it a priority.”


However, Greater Sudbury Police say they are definitely concerned about ATVs.


“We are having problems with ATVs in all outlying areas. We are swamped with complaints about careless driving in the bush, on side streets and on roads in Greater Sudbury,” said traffic Sgt. Guy Lavoie.


“The public is reminded that all terrain vehicles are not allowed on any road within Greater Sudbury. Any person found operating an ATV on a street will be charged. ATVs must be fully insured, plated and the operator must wear an approved helmet.”


ATV riders who think they can just drive off into the bush to elude police may get a surprise.


“Since last year Greater Sudbury police now have two ATVs for our patrols. If we catch you on a highway, you will get a ticket for a $110 fine. Since you will be considered a motor vehicle on a highway, if you don’t have insurance you can get a fine up to $5,000,” said Lavoie.


What concerns police is the rise in ATV accidents and the seriousness of the incidents.


“Our statistics for ATV accidents are doubling. In 2004, we recorded seven accidents. In 2005, there were 13 accidents with injuries, including two major injuries. Now in 2006, already we have seven accidents with one being a fatality on June 18 where a man, Kevin Romansky was killed.


“For us this is unacceptable.”


Lavoie remarked that officers conducted ATV patrols in Valley East and Capreol over the July 10 weekend.


Several ATVs were stopped, resulting in two people being charged with having no plates and one was charged with failing to have insurance. Three other charges were laid relating to documentation offenses.


Canada is second only to the United States in ATV sales worldwide. In 2005, 80,000 were purchased, outselling snowmobiles four to one, according to the Ontario Federation of All-Terrain Vehicle Clubs.


Nature Ontario, a federation of Ontario naturalists, is working with its federal counterparts, Nature Canada, to get action on damage caused to trails by ATVs.


“We have nature clubs all across the province and all are reporting concerns with ATVs. We expect the situation is similar across Canada so we are collaborating with groups nationally to get some action on this serious issue,” said Jennifer Baker, regional projects co-ordinator of Nature Ontario.


The organization has been documenting ATV damage.


“Research has shown that the churning up of stream sediments destroys aquatic vegetation and alters the habitat for fish and invertebrates. Irresponsible ATV riders who are going up and down stream beds crush vegetation and leave ruts behind. The increased turbidity and sedimentation smothers invertebrates and amphibians, and causes increased predation on eggs and adults, physiological stresses, gill damage, and the list goes on,” according to information posted on the Nature Canada website.


The seriousness of the issues regarding ATV use prompted the formation of a local group, which met for the first time earlier this year.


“We did work with the City of Greater Sudbury and local ATV users to help them get organized as a group so they can inform each other of their responsibilities. I think ATV users do want to present a better image of themselves to the public and police,” said Deb MacIntosh, co-ordinator of Rainbow Routes, a non-profit group promoting the use of trails for walking and hiking.


“Last February we organized a meeting in Walden. Despite their being a snowstorm at the time, we had more than 70 people attend. Right now a group is being formed, chaired by a former bank manager, with representation from police and other interested bodies.


“I think positive change is coming for all concerned.”



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The city just recently passed a by-law restricting ATVs from road use within the City Limits . I just went to a meeting last week to form a group to fight these laws . We'll see what happens .

[JRP]

always the quads fault, never the bikers:grr:

[brapbrap13]

oh spare me. always us.

[firefighterjosh]

Atleast you have something. We have nothing at all. The nearest riding park is 3 Hours away. We can ride down the back roads for $30 every 3 years. But what is the fun it that.

[quadrcr161]

i hate to say it but it dosent surprise me and it is true. with the new sport quads and the bigger utilities and the growing aftermarket support for people to modd them just to go out and see if they can sink them, the problem dosent look like it is getting any better unless either the factorys cut back, the law makers ban them all togeather or we police our own sport.

[DieselBoy]

This is total bull-effin-shyt. I've had so many heated arguements with people about this, We start out civil and friendly and quickly I'm treated like a criminal because I support ATVing, and they dispise the sight of an atv, and even the thought.

What the hell is this? My neighbor is one of these pricks. She doesn't mind ripping apart a forest to put in a god damn childrens school in our area which we already have right down the bloody road (x2) and or ANYTHING commercial. So what's the big deal with atv's riding in the forest, and roosting dirt? it's not like they're plowing over trees (usually, anyway) and destroying everything in sight.

These people seem to have nothing better to do than cry wolf about ATVs "destroying" the land... yet more people die in car accidents and what not... but OH, when an ATV crash happens MAKE A HUGE FUSS!!! Put it in the newspaper, call the Ministry, call the police, call everyone, make it out to be a crisis because someones riding in the woods. We're not welcome anywhere it seems. Except for the designated riding locations which I would like to add are few and far between.

I mean, usually, ATV's make a "path" if you will, and they use that as the primary riding section, generally only riding on that, but it's a huge crisis and the insurance thing is just rediculous. You should be responsible for what YOU'VE done and you should not have to purchase expensive insurance (up here it is) for a small single cylinder powered ATV to ride on the dirt. Next they're going to want you to get an annual inspection on your machine, and pay all their government fees and take you for whatever your worth. I mean, up here in Ontario, where the hells a quad welcome besides eagles nest, and gopher dunes and select few other riding locations? NO WHERE.

It makes us look SO BAD when these people cry wolf, because ATV riders are such an easy target because apparently so many people hate them, and it makes any mature civil rider's life a living hell.

Sorry...I needed to vent...

[DieselBoy]

as for riding on the roads and the noise issue i would like to castrate anyone who rides on the road and has an excessively loud exhaust because that destroys our reputation as a whole. It reflects anyone who rides, and they're quick to assume I'm an immature, rebel prick who doesn't give a frig cause some kid was rippin up and down the roads givin people the finger riding in odd hours making all the noise they can.

[DieselBoy]

All they want done is to see ATVs banned additionally more than they are already banned from most places. Can you imagine if we got hiking and bicycling and walking banned (just an example) they would be furious.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by quadrcr161
i hate to say it but it dosent surprise me and it is true. with the new sport quads and the bigger utilities and the growing aftermarket support for people to modd them just to go out and see if they can sink them, the problem dosent look like it is getting any better unless either the factorys cut back, the law makers ban them all togeather or we police our own sport.

well said

[clutt225]

Some of the concerns of these so called tree huggers are true. If you think that you can plop these big as utes or your ripin sport quad in a river bed and not do ecological damage you my friend are an idiot. Take a look at a hill that gets climbed on a regular basis the top wears off on the trail we dig down to the roots of the tree. We affect the area we ride in it is a fact. I am not saying that we should not ride all I want to say is ride responsibly and tread lightly. IE ride across the steam not up the stream, climb the hill once or twice and carry on not 30, 40, times in one outing. Just ride more responsible in general. When you come across a person walking thier dog slow down maybe even wave even if they don't. Don't just flip them the finger and roost them.

Second the biggest complaint around my area is niose. I can't see why this is such a problem, Get a quiet core pipe. You can't tell me that in the woods you need every last .5 of a h/p. If we all kept the niose down there would be less complaints.

This post may make me out to be an ATV hater but rest asured I love this sport like the rest of you, but we will lose the few spots that we have if the idiots out there continue to tear up private land destroy creek beds and run 114db pipes.

I curently have an alba pipe on my race 450r that has been tested at 114 db they have an end cap that will take this down to 92db at very little power loss. If mine is not in I will trail ride with my stock pipe. If we stay quiet they might to.


ride on
just my 2 cents

[DieselBoy]

If you think that you can plop these big as utes or your ripin sport quad in a river bed and not do ecological damage...............

i totally agree about the river. I've never had any desire to ride in rivers or bodies of water, and infact, I don't think anyone should be. What I'm basically getting at is everytime someone makes a boo boo on a ATV, we (riders) are at a huge loss.

I'm not saying quads don't tear up land, but the amount that quads tear up is far less than plowing the entire property up, and planting whatever they can think of on it, by completely removing the nature (trees,plants,animals,etc) in my opinion that's far worse...

I just don't want my right to ride taken away any further than it already is.

[firefighterjosh]

At my grandmas we ride the trails like crazy. This beats down the veggitation and you can see the roots on the hills. This does now hurt the tree at all. Also it makes trails for the deer. I see them all the time walking down the quad trails. She has a creek we ride down the creek in 4x4s. Yes we get stuck, but does it hurt the creek? No it dosen't. Its fun going out in the mud seeing what you can do. Now that is private land.

If I was riding on somone elses land I would take more care and not ride down there creek without permision.

Sometimes we will go for a night ride. Its summer and nice out. We ussualy go around dark 10pm. SOunds late But I live in the country. Not very many houses and we have hundereds of miles of back road and we never ride down the same road except to get home. We are all registered and most of us have stock pipes. Anyways a few ppl out of like 100 complain everytime they here the quads start up. They call the cops the cops come and see we have registration and we go on are way. The thing I hate the neighbor down the road has a street bike that is just as loud if not louder than my quad and he goes ripping down the road at like 100mph and he still calls the cops.

I feel better...I hope it made some sense.

[jcv400ex]

Utility quads do tear up terrain more than sport quads. When you have a 600 lb quad tearing through mud and creeks, yes it's going to do damage. I have mixed feelings about these new Utes for that reason. It's like driving a car through the woods.

One thing I found interesting was this statement:

Canada is second only to the United States in ATV sales worldwide. In 2005, 80,000 were purchased, outselling snowmobiles four to one, according to the Ontario Federation of All-Terrain Vehicle Clubs.

That's weird for Canada.

[400exchick]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
Utility quads do tear up terrain more than sport quads. When you have a 600 lb quad tearing through mud and creeks, yes it's going to do damage. I have mixed feelings about these new Utes for that reason. It's like driving a car through the woods.

One thing I found interesting was this statement:

Canada is second only to the United States in ATV sales worldwide. In 2005, 80,000 were purchased, outselling snowmobiles four to one, according to the Ontario Federation of All-Terrain Vehicle Clubs.

That's weird for Canada.

It is sad. We don't get as much snow as we use to but people still need to work in the bush or like doing outdoor activities. Because ATV's can easily be used year round they've become the more popular choice, wether it be for work or play. Personnaly, I'm still a sledder at heart. Will always own a sled, even if it can only be used a couple weeks out of the year. Money is also an issue. With rising prices for everything, not many can afford to buy both quads & sleds and quads are the more practical choice now.

[Prey]

Originally posted by jcv400ex

Utility quads do tear up terrain more than sport quads. When you have a 600 lb quad tearing through mud and creeks, yes it's going to do damage. I have mixed feelings about these new Utes for that reason. It's like driving a car through the woods.

dont start segragating quad types, this makes no sense at all, dirt bikers have been making a distiction of themselves for years from us atv'ers and where has it gotten them, right....... nowhere

maybe 12 yr olds could make the distiction based on their trx90's are not near as destructive to the environment as 400/450s

there are strength in numbers, and as someone said, we need to police ourselves before someone starts doing it for us

I give it another 5 years and all ATVs will be banned. Another great sport lost :( All because some people does not give a **** about other peoples land:ermm:

I have to say something, my CR125 dirt bike does more damage to the ground than my YFZ.
And all I hear is bad stuff about ATVs.
More people get hurt on Dirt Bikes than on ATVs and ATVers still get *****ed at by the government

[jcv400ex]

I'm not "singling" anyone one out, but think about it. Who is more likely to go "play" in the mud? A guy on a sport quad, or a Ute? I go around mud, because it's no fun dragging a quad out of a mud hole. Who's going to "free wheel" through the woods more? Ute's! They have the power and the 4 wheel drive.

Utility quads are practical, but with larger engines and heavier machines, more damage is going to be done. I think the latest crave in larger displacement and heavier Ute's will HURT us more as a overall, than help. They'll do more damage, more in-experienced people will get hurt on them, etc,etc,etc.

Believe me, I am NOT for banning ATV's or anything, I've been glued to a motor and atleast two wheels since I was 2 1/2......

Sorry for taking a deeper look into it and expressing my opinion. But with the need for having the baddest and biggest machine out there and add stupidity, we are our own worst enemies.

[Pappy]

We are our own worst enemy, its not just the "tread lightly" issue. 10 people in an area can ride with no issues for years, it just takes 1 15 year old on a piped sport quad or riding wrecklessly on the road to ruin it for us all.

[Prey]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
I'm not "singling" anyone one out, but think about it. Who is more likely to go "play" in the mud? A guy on a sport quad, or a Ute? I go around mud, because it's no fun dragging a quad out of a mud hole. Who's going to "free wheel" through the woods more? Ute's! They have the power and the 4 wheel drive.

Utility quads are practical, but with larger engines and heavier machines, more damage is going to be done. I think the latest crave in larger displacement and heavier Ute's will HURT us more as a overall, than help. They'll do more damage, more in-experienced people will get hurt on them, etc,etc,etc.

Believe me, I am NOT for banning ATV's or anything, I've been glued to a motor and atleast two wheels since I was 2 1/2......

Sorry for taking a deeper look into it and expressing my opinion. But with the need for having the baddest and biggest machine out there and add stupidity, we are our own worst enemies.

and all i was trying to say from the beggining is ...... WHO CARES!!!!!!!, do you think anyone outside of you is making a distinction between utes and sport quads

do you really think if there is a ban or new regulations on quads it is only going to apply to utes

do you really think the guy hitting mud holes (and not every ute rider shoots for the mud holes, thats like saying every sport quad has a stupid loud pipe) is anymore destructive to our sport than the people who put insanely loud pipes on their sport machines, ride through peoples front lawns/chase land owners with their sport machines, run from the cops on sport machine

you are using the same logic dirt bikers have been making for years "quads are more destructive than dirt bikes", and again it has gotten them no where, they are in the same pickle as we are.

I am trying to make the point, if we do not stand as a team (this includes all off-roaders, not just quads) we will continue to loose riding areas until there are none left

distinctions between off road'ers does absolutely nothing except make the people making them feel more secure until they get hammered with a new regulation or closed riding area (and BTW, you are trying to draw lines of distinction between utes and sport quads when the last statistic i saw said that ute riders out-number sport riders by something like 11:1)

again i say, strength in numbers

Originally posted by Pappy
We are our own worst enemy, its not just the "tread lightly" issue. 10 people in an area can ride with no issues for years, it just takes 1 15 year old on a piped sport quad or riding wrecklessly on the road to ruin it for us all.
Couldn't of said it better:o I hope that 15 year old wasn't me you was talking about:p

[jcv400ex]

I don't know what else to say other than we're in deep **** and everyone's firing at us. It is going to take a united stand and alot of man hours to get anywhere. This is the reasoning for the AMA and ATVA.

Support these organizations, do a gut check and see how responsible your riding and spread the word......and we'll all hold hands and prance through the daisies.....

[clutt225]

I am a racer and trail rider. I live this sport 24/7. I am also married into a family with very educated "nature people".
My sister in-law has spent 4 years in university for enviromental studies of some sort "professional tree huger" I think. My father in-law works for the conservation authority in this area. He looks after the forest that thousands of atv's use every weekend. He sees first hand the damage done by irresponsible riders and general traffic. You may not think that you are doing damage but you most likely don't know ****. We affect the enviroment with every move we make. All I am trying to say is think before you do.

[Pappy]

Yep, ya gotta love the tree huggers. They complain about anything anyone does, yet fail to do anything about the concrete jungle they have helped create. The very conservatives that say i cant ride on my land are the very ones who now live on the ground I walked as a kid, hunting, fishing, and riding.


The land will reclaim where I have tread, they can not say the same thing about what they have done.

[DieselBoy]

Originally posted by Pappy
Yep, ya gotta love the tree huggers. They complain about anything anyone does, yet fail to do anything about the concrete jungle they have helped create. The very conservatives that say i cant ride on my land are the very ones who now live on the ground I walked as a kid, hunting, fishing, and riding.


The land will reclaim where I have tread, they can not say the same thing about what they have done.

Exactly what I'm trying to convay.

The amount of people against ATVing is exceptionally higher than those in favor it seems.

[jeremy_283]

phuck em'......... ride....... i ride..... i admit i tear up grass........ but when i rode at my neighbors field me and my friend always took it real easy on like the 200 acres my neighbor had then on like 1/4 an acre we just did a short track race to get our energy outta us...... he *****es at us we leave....... that has not much to do with this........ but just ride.... defend yourself..... pour antifreeze on the trees in their front yard if they complain..... or bleach

[quadfamily]

Great attitude extremejrowe. So you tear up peoples grass and you want to go and purposely damage their property by poisoning their trees. What a wonderful idea! That won't make them hate ATV riders any more then they already do now will it? What an IDIOT! Think before you speak child.

[firefighterjosh]

Originally posted by quadfamily
Great attitude extremejrowe. So you tear up peoples grass and you want to go and purposely damage their property by poisoning their trees. What a wonderful idea! That won't make them hate ATV riders any more then they already do now will it? What an IDIOT! Think before you speak child.

Agree:scary:

[Rider-trx_250ex]

If the use of ATVs and dirtbikes have become such an issue, why doesn't our communities take positive actions instead of complaining???? Fix the problem where it starts, with GOOD actions. Like why not make quads street legal on country roads and back roads. Have signs stating on this road ATVs are permitted. Have them pass all inspections as a motor vehicle should IF they want to become street legal, since quads are considered motor vehicles. Quote from the article, "Since you will be considered a motor vehicle on a highway....". I was talking to my old teacher who is also a cop, and I asked him if you would take an atv to an inspection station and have it pass all tests that motorcycles have to pass, why can't they become street legal? Do u know what he said? He said If they pass all tests, I don't see why not they can't be ridden on streets if the inspection station passes them. That was his opinion.

Or if our communities are willing to waste money on stupid things why not spend some money wisely on atv'ers. I mean if your community wants to spend money on a playground, so children have a place to have fun and be happy, why not spend some money on the atv'ers for a place to have fun and be happy? Like designate A LOT more riding areas so we always have a place to ride. Or You know how there is always like 3 or 4 feet of nothing on each side of the road? Why not put a cement barrier seperating the road from that 3 or 4 feet of dirt or rocks and designate that for quads so we are off the road and the barrier prevents rocks and dirt from hitting cars an have someway to get to trails without riding the road??????????????????????????????????????????? Or just extend the road to widen it with some dirt and put a barrier up so cars still have room to pull off. Now that would stop a lot of complaining people.

And for the "quads tear up the land", yes. That is why you respect where you ride and tread lightly. It's those idiots that care for nothing that give us bad names. Not every atv rider is out there to tear chit up and do bad things. But comes on, everyone has to admit that a quad with leave some sort of path behind it no matter what or how you ride. Come on, saying that atv's cause damage to the land by making trails????? That's sort of stupid in my opinion. Deers and other animals make trails in the woods, are we going to have signs saying, NO DEERS ARE ALLOWED IN HERE? Or have signs saying, YOU MAY WALK ON THIS LAND AS LONG AS YOU DON'T WALK ON IT REPEATDLY AND DON'T MAKE A TRAIL? I don't think so.

On the other hand, riding in streams is bad. Ride next to it, or if you wanna wash your quad off, go home and do it. There is no need to ride in it, maybe crossing one but not riding in it.

......my 2 cents

[LittleMissE]

A couple rules everyone should think about...
1st: We all need to use the trails that are already there and not make new ones
2nd: The people that havent rode a quad shouldnt run off b/c they have the money and buy a fast quad that they cant control
3rd: No one should ever ride above there ablity b/c thats what gets people really hurt



Reasons why people dont like quads...
1st: Someone that they know got really hurt on a quad and now they think that a quad is bad for everyone
2nd: The people who cant afford a quad may make up reasons for why they are so bad( but once they get a quad life is good)
3rd: People that want to try and save all the forest and the land dont like us riding on what they are trying to save


All in all I think that us as quad riders need to think harder about what we do before we do it and think about the safety of others as well as ourselfs. Dont take people who dont ride somewhere that is to hard for them! Always wear helmet!! Dont drink and ride!!



By the way I know it doesnt really matter what I say the teenages and people in there 20s are still going to get money and go out and buy a quad to fast for them just to say that they have a fast quad and then on top of it that add a passenger, finally end up wrecking and hurting themselfs the passsenger and possibly someone else!!


I cant think of anything else so theres what I think!!

I bought an ATV cuz I love nature, and want to be OUT IN IT, not sitting in my house thinking "Boy, how cool is nature ....I wonder what it looks like."

[NorCalRacer]

I grew up on 40 acres. My family sold it about ten years ago. The people stopped abating, living on the property entirely. (Rich Californians buy lots of land so nobody else can, makes them feel good about themselves:rolleyes: ). I rode a dirtbike on that land for thousands of hours. Driving by it the other day, I couldn't even see most of my old trails let alone the driveway:blah: As long as we tread somewhat responsibly, nature will be able to cope and our sport will have a future. And to the loser who says trespassing is his right, you are a grade a piece of chit. Next time you have a thought, STFU and do everyone a favor. You have absolutely nothing to contribute here:rolleyes:

[Alberta_Qaudin]

Originally posted by Quad18star

“The public is reminded that all terrain vehicles are not allowed on any road within Greater Sudbury. Any person found operating an ATV on a street will be charged. ATVs must be fully insured, plated and the operator must wear an approved helmet.”




now before i say anything i NEVER ride with out my helmet BUT there is no canadian law stating you must wear a helmet on an off highway vehicle. i was told this by an RCMP officer. wether off the road or on the road by law you are not required to have a helmet on any vehicle designated (sp) as an off highay vehicle.

just figured i'de throw that out there for any of you who might get stopped putting through a ditch or from point A to point B with out one. they cant ticket you for that

[Prey]

Just my take on it:

Absolutely nothing gets better for us until the laws reflect we are responsible for our own actions. Back in the 80s precedence was set that landowners and manufactures were responsible for the harm that came to us as a result of our actions and they were found legally and financially responsible for this. IMO 1 of the reasons you see posted signs all over the place, without them, the landowners are still responsible and may be sued.

A new nation-wide law needs to be put in place holding ATV’ers/parents responsible for their actions on ATV’s and that manufacturers and landowners are not liable in the least except in cases involving true malice (ie booby trapping the land)

Then and only then will we make any real progress.

Should this happen, there is already a nation wide interstate trail system in place by virtue of the power lines. There would need to be an annual registration and trail pass (my abbreviated plan here would also call for liability insurance). The proceeds from registration and trail pass would go to fund 2 groups within each state. 1.A trail maintenance group, for a. to address one of the power companies big concerns in uncovering under ground cables and b. keep the trails in good condition from wash out and at creek crossing 2. A full time ATV based police group to ensure safety, that we are using only the marked trails, and sound ordinances (with ticket revenue going back into the funding pot for these 2 groups)

Lastly, open trails and short sections of paved road so that ATV’ers can get into the smaller, less financially stable towns for eating, gas and water.


IMO, the almighty buck is the ruler of the nation, this is no different for ATV’ers, I believe our future depends on our ability to show ourselves as a viable source of revenue and jobs.


Again, this is just my thought on it

~Ken

[clutt225]

Ken this system that you describe is all over Ont. in Canada. Now get this, it is inplace and governed by the Ontario federation snomobile club OFSC. Thats right snowmobile club but snow is seasonal and in short supply the last 8 years or so. The price for a sled pass has gone through the roof because of less sleds do to less snow and insurance on the trails. Now if the snowmobile club would allow ATV clubs the use of the trail in the off season or when the groomers aren't running, to use these trails and buy a pass the cost would be shared and would drop. But they continue to fight the ATV clubs.

Can some one explain this to me?

[DieselBoy]

lets face it...there's alot of irresponsible riders period. And they seem to always be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Whether we'd like to admit it or not, accidents both minor and fatal will occur no matter whether the rider is immature, responsible, etc. They just happen...

I live in southern ON, and the amount of "legal" places to ride is few next to none. By planting insurance on ATV's, I believe, is a dasister. Why? Because this type of situation is very comparable to the situation we have with car insurance. Now, being a good driver with a squeeky clean record I still pay excessively high insurance costs. This is all because they've taken the average male my age who screws up, and I'm left paying for their mistakes, along with everyone else. The same thing's going to happen with ATV insurance I would say it's safe to assume. Insurance company's aren't the only ones who think ATVs are an extremely high liability, people in general think this. This all makes for a very bad storm that's probably never going to pass. The responsibility of riding somewhere should immediately exempt the landowner from responsibility of a person on an OHV. Just my opinion....

There's just not enough support in favor of ATVs to make it positive. It's quite sad. From my observation, most people who i talk to that don't ride don't hesitate to say how dangerous they are, and how they always hear about injuries and deaths.

[Prey]

the irony, you complain about insurance costs which is kinda goofy IMO, facts are facts and stats are stats.

so, if you are too cheap to pay insurance and that is your way out, then what would make anyone think you would pony up the potential 100,000s of dollars you may cause in an accident (uhhhh, kinda duhhhh, that is one of the reason your are required to carry car insurance, why should you be any less liable if you cause injury to somone on an atv vice a car?)

i dont mean to rag on ya man, i just thought that was a pretty irresponsible, lazy, pathetic excuse

[Prey]

P.S. I dont know how it is in canada, but here in the states, there are already states requiring registration and insurance if the quad id riden off of private property.

That would not be that big of a blow to us, not to mention, you did notice where i said interstate, NOT international