Race Fuel/high Octane

[buck naked-r]

does any one know who makes red 110 fuel.............there's a station down here that sells race fuel from the pump..[$6.00..a..gallon],but the guy at the store doesn't know the name of the fuel.

any ideas?

i think vp is red not sure tho

[GPracer2500]

VP Red is red but it's 105 MON. VP-110 is 110 (R+M/2) but it's purple. Sunoco's 110 (R+M/2) is also purple. There's a whole slew of racing fuels out there, so who knows...

If you really want to know (and I would before I used it) than just tell the guy to find out from the station owner/manager/whatever what the heck it is.

[brandonhtrx450r]

i dont know but it went into my bike so i hope that it around 110.. the guy didnt know what kind of fuel it is....he from a different country so it was kinda hard to understand him.. i gonna go back this week to c if someone else is working and they might know!

[buck naked-r]

sound like it may be vp-red,if so i don't think i can run that on 14.1 compression...

what color is klotz?

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Im not hijacking your thread.

But, do they make 416ex kits with a 10:8 piston? Because I dont want to use race fuel, because that cost alot.

[FHKracingZ]

lol 105 octane is plenty high for 14:1:D

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
Im not hijacking your thread.

But, do they make 416ex kits with a 10:8 piston? Because I dont want to use race fuel, because that cost alot.

They do.

I have one, but I still have to run a race/pump mix. 91 is the highest available in my area and that doesn't cut it for me. For some types of riding I can get away with 91 without too much trouble--but when I'm really pushing the bike it detonates. When I chose that piston (JE 416 10.8:1) I wasn't expecting to need more than 91, but under high load, high heat conditions it detos pretty bad.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
lol 105 octane is plenty high for 14:1:D

Remember that the octane requirements in a 400EX (air cooled) are NOT the same as a 450R (or any other liquid cooled engine). The static compression ratio of a piston isn't the only consideration for the likelyhood of deto taking place...

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Do I get higher octane from another Gas Station, or do I buy Octane and mix it?

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
Do I get higher octane from another Gas Station, or do I buy Octane and mix it?

I don't understand what you mean.

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Do you buy higher octane from a gas station pump.

Or

Do you buy bottles of Octane and mix it with gasoline?

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
Do you buy higher octane from a gas station pump.

Or

Do you buy bottles of Octane and mix it with gasoline?

In this context, octane is the rating of a gasoline's resistance to detonation (deto is an abonormal combustion phenomenon you want to--no, must--avoid). You can't buy octane in a bottle. There are octane boosters that can be added to gas to raise the fuels octane rating. But there are plenty of misconceptions about the effectiveness of ocatane boosters and they are NOT a solution for high performance, high compression engines that demand high octane fuel.

Sometimes you can find gas stations that sell high octane fuel straight from the pump. More often, you buy high octane fuel from a motorcyle shop in a 5 gallon pale or something. In this context, high octane fuel = race gas. A race-gas/pump-gas mix would be regular premium pump gas (ususally 91 or 93 octane) mixed with a racing fuel that has an octane rating considerably higher than 91 or 93. You do this mixing yourself.

There's a lot more to octane ratings and racing fuels, but hopefully that clears up the basics of what you need to know.

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Thanks that helped ALOT!


I have another question also.
With a J.E 11:1 88mm piston, what else would I need to get with the piston. It says I do not need to sleeve, just bore and hone. What exactly does that mean? Also what Octane gas would I need to run?

[buck naked-r]

Originally posted by FHKracingZ
lol 105 octane is plenty high for 14:1:D

have you tried this?


105 seems low for that compression.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
Thanks that helped ALOT!


I have another question also.
With a J.E 11:1 88mm piston, what else would I need to get with the piston. It says I do not need to sleeve, just bore and hone. What exactly does that mean? Also what Octane gas would I need to run?

The stock cylinder sleeve can be bored for an 88mm piston (426cc). The sleeve starts getting pretty thin though....Some say an 88mm piston in the stock sleeve leaves the sleeve so thin that reliability suffers. I don't have any direct experience with that so I couldn't say...the theory seems to make some sense though [shrug].

Boring is just that--cutting material out of the cylinder sleeve so it's large enough to accept a larger piston. Honing is the second step of a bore job. Honing is a process of scraping/cutting a tiny amount of material out of a bore. Honing leaves behind a cross-hatch pattern of scratches in the bore. This "roughening" of the cylinder is necessary to provide a surface for the new piston rings to burnish (basically, file down the high spots on the rings so they mate up nearly perfectly to the surface of the cylinder).

With an 11:1 88mm piston you would be foolish (IMO) to not install Heavy Duty head studs in replacement of the stockers. The stock studs like to pull out of the cylinder with high compression, higher HP builds. The result is blown head gaskets. I had a 10.6:1 86mm pistion (406cc) that lasted for about five years with stock studs before by head gasket finally gave way. That build was getting a little tired all the way around by that point....

Common wisdom is that in an EX you can go up to 11:1 compression and still use premium pump gas. That's an acceptable guidline in my book, but it's only a guideline. Like I mentioned before, I've got a 10.8:1 and 91 octane fuel doesn't cut it. Maybe I'd be OK if 93 was available in my area....

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Where can I get a 416 kit like yours? I never saw any 416 with 10.8:1 piston on ebay.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 400eXr1d3rZ
Where can I get a 416 kit like yours? I never saw any 416 with 10.8:1 piston on ebay.

JE makes a 10.8:1 416. If your shopping on ebay, than item #290004231912 is one.

1mm over = 406
2mm over = 416
3mm over = 426
4mm over = "440"

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Ok, thanks your a big help!:)

[Brademay]

citgo makes 110 octane red race fuel.

[EXevan91]

to bad they dont sell it around here...

[brandonhtrx450r]

would you happen to know what kind of fuel citgo sells.. one of our citgo's sold 110 but they quit selling it for some odd reason.

[motomanmike]

just another addition GPRacers post on the fuel topic. Be very careful with buying race gas with an octane rating over 100 or 105 at the pumps. Sometimes it is NOT oxygenated this is why people mix it 50-50 with pump gas. Pump gas has oxygen in it some race fuels do not. A guy i ride with has a highly modded 400ex he runs 100 octane race gas and seems just fine.

[buck naked-r]

i went to the station that sells the red fuel and ask them the name of the fuel and they say it has no name["it 110-race-fuel"]-they said this is what its called:huh

there from another country...arab or something so i think they couldn't understand what i was saying

[05trickedrappy]

citgo sells 110 octane race fuel that is red it is provied by a company called rocket fuel.

[buck naked-r]

Originally posted by 05trickedrappy
citgo sells 110 octane race fuel that is red it is provied by a company called rocket fuel.
is it a good fuel?

[400eXr1d3rZ]

Originally posted by buck naked-r
is it a good fuel?

Rocket Fuel is expensive, and its really good, I think its what some race cars use, not sure though.

[05trickedrappy]

yeah its really good fuel, just make sure you make sure its fresh because at gas stations it sit therer because its soooo high and its not bought often. Yeah we use it in our dirtcars it really good fuel.

[stuntjake7]

where i live i have VP at the pump(105), CP in gallons(110), and Turbo Blue at the pump(115). Im over 2mm and I mix Turbo Blue with Premo reg. but a lot of people dont relize a lot of race fuels are leaded fuels. I run 130+ in my drag bikes. hahaha I used to sell race fuel too. 105-130 octane. vendor lisence is a great thing. 55 gallon drums of fuel cheep.