czrider263 DRG build

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 44oEX
how tho? I mean he did port this motor to work with this cam.

Chad can you please explain

thanks

exactly!! esentially, I did port for this cam. a 208 is the same timing as the 943, except for 0.050" less intake lift... These two cams are almost TWINS except .050" in intake lift.

Dont confuse port timing with port velocity.....

the port was timed for 208 and it just happens to be exact port timing as the 943, just now with more intake velocity due to .050" lower lift on the intake...

the lower the lift, the more velocity into the cylinder... This is why HVP works soooooo well for me.. :D



if you look how linear the 208 curve was, you should be able to see how the power was inhibited because of intake velocity being slower than the 943. Furthermore, the 208 power curve was stopped at 9400 rpm and still climbing.... if we had ran out the 208 to 11k the power would have been much higher than reported....

the point is that with the 943, it made more power under the entire curve (integrating under the curve- more average) from bottom to peak, where the 208 would have the gain from peak to 11k if we had ran it out on the 208 test...


here's the 943 specs.... compare with 208 cam card...
-------------------------------------
943/921
0.356"in 0.342"ex
dur 277 298
110in 104ex
dur@ .050 is 257*in/258*ex
inop 18.5* BTC/incl 58.5*ABDC
exop 53*BBDC/excl 25* ATDC
-------------------------

[xsr_racing28c]

Great explantion!!!

[czrider263]

So we got 53 and change last night!! now lets sqeez it under the 943 to really wee what it will do LOL:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[czrider263]

Well i just got off taking the 06 for a ride and all i can say is good GAWD !!!!! This thing is just nasty. I felt a stronger pull all around. most notable coming out of turns and holshots. i don't even what to know what another 3 would be HOLY S%&T

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Well i just got off taking the 06 for a ride and all i can say is good GAWD !!!!! This thing is just nasty. I felt a stronger pull all around. most notable coming out of turns and holshots. i don't even what to know what another 3 would be HOLY S%&T

:macho

well, it'll happen real soon after i get it machined down to the 943... hehe

[44oEX]

thanks alot for clearing that up....i'm taking mecanical engineering right now, almost done....an I'm just the type of guy that like to know the WHY of this sort of thing....thanks


so, do you think the 493 would be better on most other motors? it would have the greater velocity on all the other motors to....where "should" the 208 be better?

thanks

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 44oEX
thanks alot for clearing that up....i'm taking mecanical engineering right now, almost done....an I'm just the type of guy that like to know the WHY of this sort of thing....thanks


so, do you think the 493 would be better on most other motors? it would have the greater velocity on all the other motors to....where "should" the 208 be better?

thanks

well, if your looking for peak top grag hp the 208 would muscle up top, and for mx the 943 would be better.

[44oEX]

ok thanks, thats just the information I wanted to hear.

[MAD450r]

those that know all this good stuff. I see talking alot about web cams. How does the hrc 04-05 cam compare on top?

Also without a piston is is possible to change timing on my cam to get more power out of it?

[czrider263]

Originally posted by MAD450r
those that know all this good stuff. I see talking alot about web cams. How does the hrc 04-05 cam compare on top?

Also without a piston is is possible to change timing on my cam to get more power out of it?

I think the HRC would make more top end maybe becuase it has more lift than the 943 web. the 943 has like 356 lift while the hrc i think is in teh 390's? thats a gusse i don't really know LOL ask chad!

as for more power i don't think so? you can advance and retard your timing with a adj cam sproket but i think that just moves where you make the power?

[MAD450r]

thanks ill ask chad when i can afford a piston and install since i cant do the work myself

[chad502ex]

port cross sectional is considered when porting it to a cam... in the case of czriders263 06 build, the port wasn't nessecary hogged out for huge cross-sectional area required for larger lift cams... the 06 ports are designed for high velocities up to about 0.350" lift, which is why the 943 works so well.... the bigger the lift the better the engine will perform in the top end when the engine is really breathing with larger hogged out ports. I didn't want to hog out the ports on this build... as you can see with the installation of this cam, the porting i did worked well with the timing, but i was hoping to get more cfm with the larger 208... the port cross sectional prohibited that...

essentially,...
cfm = velocity x area

now,..
an adjustable cam sprocket will push the power up the rpm curve; so, by calculation

hp = tq * rpm/5250

so by looking at the equation- tq and rpm can really drastically increase the hp...

for example,, this build produced 30ft/lbs of tq at 9400 rpm and made 54hp....

using the equation again and installing an adjustable cam sprocket -6 degrees would very possiblly push the entire curve upward so that the 30ft/lbs of tq at 9400 rpm with the 208, would now make 30ft/lbs of tq at 10000 rpm... so, 30ft/lbs of tq at 10000 rpm using the equation (as the dyno does) would yeild 57hp.... this was just an example, but more than likely i will be retarding the 943 when i squish it down.. ;)

[xsr_racing28c]

Wow, that really is starting to make more sense to me.

Its amazing how much **** i've learned in the last 3 months while doing this DRG build..

I can't wait to see what this dyno shows once you get that cam sunk in and back on the dyno...

~Jay

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Wow, that really is starting to make more sense to me.

Its amazing how much **** i've learned in the last 3 months while doing this DRG build..

I can't wait to see what this dyno shows once you get that cam sunk in and back on the dyno...

~Jay

I think this is why these threads are so popular, people are actually learning a great deal on these builds, whether we were a part of it or not. The Q & A alone are priceless:macho

[44oEX]

hey Chad, I was just checking on WEBCAM's web site....you said that the 208 has 0.050 more valve lift on the intake and that the exhaust is the same....well acording to them the 493 has MORE lift in the intake then the 208....0.415 for the 493, and 0.408 for the 208, so that would turn everything around, the 208 would have more port velocity do to the now less valve lift on the intake, and you also said that the 493 is more of a drop in, but if the 208 is really hard on valve springs, the 493, that has more lift would be even worst....so drop in would not work, it would need even better springs then the 208.....and the 493 has less duration then the 208 witch would mean that it would have even more aggresive curve then the 208, to be able to go to more lift and back to close, in less time.

Could you explain this? is this just a mistake on there site? Or am I just seeing this all wrong? according to what you said, the 493 should only have 0.382 in intake lift to be 0.050 less then the 208 like you said.

HELP lol :huh

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 44oEX
hey Chad, I was just checking on WEBCAM's web site....you said that the 208 has 0.050 more valve lift on the intake and that the exhaust is the same....well acording to them the 493 has MORE lift in the intake then the 208....0.415 for the 493, and 0.408 for the 208, so that would turn everything around, the 208 would have more port velocity do to the now less valve lift on the intake, and you also said that the 493 is more of a drop in, but if the 208 is really hard on valve springs, the 493, that has more lift would be even worst....so drop in would not work, it would need even better springs then the 208.....and the 493 has less duration then the 208 witch would mean that it would have even more aggresive curve then the 208, to be able to go to more lift and back to close, in less time.

Could you explain this? is this just a mistake on there site? Or am I just seeing this all wrong? according to what you said, the 493 should only have 0.382 in intake lift to be 0.050 less then the 208 like you said.

HELP lol :huh


no, your confused... the 493 is not the 943/921 or the 943/729 or the 208/921....

there are many master grind numbers... the two i compared on this build was the 943/921 and the 208/921.

the 943 is not advertised on Web Cam's website...

rumor has it the Web 943/921 was gotten from Ron Hamp Web 187 grind...

[stocktires]

Originally posted by chad502ex
no, your confused... the 493 is not the 943/921 or the 943/729 or the 208/921....

there are many master grind numbers... the two i compared on this build was the 943/921 and the 208/921.

the 943 is not advertised on Web Cam's website...

rumor has it the Web 943/921 was gotten from Ron Hamp Web 187 grind...

Ha, kinda figures. I've heard RHC's 187 web cam is sick. He's one awesome CRF builder.

[44oEX]

yeah ok your right I was all mixed up with the 943 and the 493 :huh I should have figured it out.

ok so know that I have all this straight again lol, would the 493/729 be better or close to the 208 in power? more lift, be harder on springs? would you recommend the 208 or 493 for mx/ fast trails? how about reliability?

thanks for clearing that up

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 44oEX
yeah ok your right I was all mixed up with the 943 and the 493 :huh I should have figured it out.

ok so know that I have all this straight again lol, would the 493/729 be better or close to the 208 in power? more lift, be harder on springs? would you recommend the 208 or 493 for mx/ fast trails? how about reliability?

thanks for clearing that up

you'll like the 943 for trails for sure.... very fast hard pulling cam.. i was rather impressed with its performance to say the least...

[xsr_racing28c]

Maybe i missed it but was the 943 web run strait up or was the timing messed with on the dyno??

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Maybe i missed it but was the 943 web run strait up or was the timing messed with on the dyno??

straight up.

[xsr_racing28c]

Now, are you going to be twisting it back to try that out also, or just run it like it is?? I suppose it will change when you machine the head....

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Now, are you going to be twisting it back to try that out also, or just run it like it is?? I suppose it will change when you machine the head....

i will be balancing the P-V clearance out so when the head/cylinder is decked then the cam timing will have to get degree'd..

[xsr_racing28c]

Alright thanks man!! I'm learning!!!! :D

I can't wait to see more!! ~Jay

[czrider263]

Two funny pics i made LOL injoy

[czrider263]

DRG STYLE

injoy chad :D

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
DRG STYLE

injoy chad :D

thanks alex... this will be uploaded to my website when i complete the "Featured Builds" page..

:macho

[czrider263]

Brent Becker WA WA WA

[czrider263]

Added one pics that he liked

[Kilabanshee]

You made some horrible pictures into something decent.... Looks good Alex!

[czrider263]

Kila made a sick rasuch vid for yea i know you always wanted one.... we need to do a full day of shooting next time.

Injoy

[Kilabanshee]

I remember alot more video of me being taken. Maybe Ryan has it on his camera. Or maybe I'm crazy:eek2: :devil:

[czrider263]

4 more min

[Kilabanshee]

Next time you're on aol send me all the video you have.....

[czrider263]

When it uploaded it shifted all the timing:( :( :(

so here it is

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/th_myatvvid.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/?action=view&current=myatvvid.flv)

[czrider263]

Got my KICK START TODAY!!!!

i will have pics later

[Over-land 450r]

Alex Pm me your number.

[czrider263]

Kick start almost on



chad there should be a head on the way to your house LOL

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Kick start almost on



chad there should be a head on the way to your house LOL

kewl.. I'm waiting on pistons, then I'll measure for machining before i start porting... :D

[czrider263]

got the kick start on YEAH

[czrider263]

another

[czrider263]

Vid i shot

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/th_MyMovie15.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/?action=view&current=MyMovie15.flv)

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
got the kick start on YEAH

very kewl picture and video alex. I like your DRG 450ER/R its sweat seeing it still kick arse. After your TT build, lets get it to 60 flowing it in on my new flow bench... can't wait!

[czrider263]

O it def still RIPPPPS.......


Yeah i can't wait to be close to 60! HURRY UP AND GET THAT FLOW BENCH.lol

[lumi]

wow awesome quad man.... i really like it and the DRG work. awesome guys this thread was def. the most favorite ie ever seen





-lumi

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by lumi
wow awesome quad man.... i really like it and the DRG work. awesome guys this thread was def. the most favorite ie ever seen





-lumi


Alex, awesome to hear your 06 is still thumping hard. Everytime I ride that beast i'm extremely impressed with its lighting acceleration.

thanks lumi- we are glad you enjoyed it and participated. Thanks again.

[czrider263]

check this one out.

[dober250R]

czrider, how much do you weigh?

[czrider263]

Im not a stick if thats what you asking LOL.....


Lets just say im a high school football lineman and i am like 6ft 2 LOL.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
Im not a stick if thats what you asking LOL.....


Lets just say im a high school football lineman and i am like 6ft 2 LOL.

good thing your on DRG!!!! wahooooo.. :Macho LOL.. :D

[czrider263]

Yeah doesn't matter when you have a DRG monster under ya.

[lumi]

hey CZ clean ur mail box up man i got something for ya.




-lumi

[czrider263]

Ok i did!

[czrider263]

Ok... this monster is going through another phase. I decided to update the motor and some other parts of the quad during the winter for next season. The motor is getting more compression, ex vavles, and some new porting all thanks to DRG. :devil: . The motor will be picked up tomorrow and the rest of the rebuild will be covered here...

This is what it looked like at the last race....

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/dutchman/7thgrade038.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/dutchman/7thgrade032.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/dutchman/7thgrade043.jpg

[pro-rider46]

sweet keep up updated

[czrider263]

Ok!!!!!!!!! i got the motor back yestarday. Looks amazing chad! :macho

I will put the motor in the frame and so other things this weekend. I will be sure to post pictures along the way.

[eastside 400]

hey alex, havent seen u at the races much lately, where have you been? did you ever end up selling the 05?

[czrider263]

Originally posted by eastside 400
hey alex, havent seen u at the races much lately, where have you been? did you ever end up selling the 05?


Iv been around, and no i haven't sold the 05....

[eastside 400]

do you happen to have any stock 06 airbox's or 06 swingarms?

[czrider263]

No i don't have any spares sorry....


Ok... well I got to start working on my quad. I made some good progress today. Here are some pictures.

As it sat before today. I did alot of work before this picture. I tore down everything and greased it. I sent the link to JB to be rebuilt too.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1020.jpg

I also sent my shocks to fox to be rebuilt. While they were there I had them put on the high and low speed compression adjuster.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1021.jpg

DRG motor back from chad! :devil:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1022.jpg

[czrider263]

Motor in the frame..

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1023.jpg

Carb attached

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1024.jpg

A little DRG shot

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1025.jpg

Pipe on..

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1028.jpg

Another shot

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1029.jpg

Well thats it for today... I will post when i do more. Im expecting my new pro amor nerfs soon as well as my airbox. when i get these things I will button up the build and fire her up. :macho

[TWISTED DINLI]

looks good! cant wait to see it finished!

[czrider263]

Thanks.... I can't wait to feel the new motor!

[chad502ex]

looks great alex.

your airbox should be at your house on tues.

Don't forget the oil in your engine.... :D

[czrider263]

Originally posted by chad502ex
looks great alex.

your airbox should be at your house on tues.

Don't forget the oil in your engine.... :D

HEHE i noticed that there wasn't any in there.... BTW did you retard the cam timing? Or put in a new plug?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by czrider263
HEHE i noticed that there wasn't any in there.... BTW did you retard the cam timing? Or put in a new plug?

I used your old plug that i know worked... ;)

.retarded a few degrees to balance P-V...

i've indicated two timing marks on your cam sprocket... stay in between those two marks.... :D

[czrider263]

Ok... I did a lil more work. put some plastics on, hood, fluids, chain, and some other little things. I will have pictures soon.

[czrider263]

PHEW... well the build is ALMOST done.... Still waiting on new plastics, new MCC graphics(sponsered by them now :devil: ), and Pro amor bumper and nerf bars (sponsered by them now too :macho ). Other than those few things the build is done. Well done enough to break it in and get some ride time on it. here are some pictures.

Heres a picture of it almost done.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1034.jpg

And here it is after a few laps around my house
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/08%2006%20rebuild/IMG_1036.jpg

OK... as for the motor... A BIG TUMBS UP TO CHAD AT DRG!!!! This motor has changed alot. It revs very similar to when it went down to him, but it came back with more grunt. It has alot more power pulling through the wheels. I notice the power difference the most from mid to top end. I haven't even gotton the chance to really open her up. I can't wait to tune in the suspension and get to see what the motor really has in it. THANKS ALOT CHAD. I love it. I think it will really help me this year racing.

[chad502ex]

I am glad you like it Alex.

Be safe on your new machine.

Good luck... Let me know if you need anything.

[czrider263]

Got to hit up Breezewood today for a little riding. Its been so long since i threw a leg over a quad. so it took some getting used to it. Chads motor worked great like always. still a huge DRG fan. im hoping i can hit up some mx races in the next few weekends.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/breezewood08/IMG_1248.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/breezewood08/IMG_1258.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/breezewood08/IMG_1293.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/breezewood08/IMG_1278.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/breezewood08/IMG_0994.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/czrider263/breezewood08/IMG_1276.jpg

[pro-rider46]

good to see your out ripping it up, been a while since you last visited the site

[ab420]

That looks sweet, nice work!

[czrider263]

Originally posted by pro-rider46
good to see your out ripping it up, been a while since you last visited the site

Thanks man. I know its been a while. Between school, football, and girlfriends it was hard for me to find time to ride. I hope to ride every weekend from now on.