Nitrous Purge

[Iliketogofast]

So... My friend's mom bought him a nitrous kit from Boondockers to put on his Raptor (Sweet!)... Does anybody know if I could hook a purge up to it (like a car) and how well that would work?

[sixer3]

well, a purge removes the gas from the lines between the bottle and the solenoid....how long could that line possibly be on a quad, especially one using a dry nos kit going to the air-box, you definately could hook it up, but would it really purge anything?....

[ohsobad_chevy]

Yes you can hook up a purge valve. It is very smart to do so, that way it will clear out the lines before you inject the nitrous.

[organiz3d_chaos]

Yea, wiring should be similar, and if it was me, i would put one on it.

[ohsobad_chevy]

I guess you really dont have to, beens that the purge valve and activation selenoid aren't cheap. You will get a harder hit with the purge installed, definately noticable. My buddies got a vet with 150 shot and he didn't buy a purge valve/selenoid when he first put it on and the shot wouldn't hit very hard, after he got the purge valve, the shots were more noticeable and consistant. ;)

[sixer3]

well, the boondockers kit is a dry-nos kit for one, not sure if their point is to even inject liquid NO2 into the engine, it seems to me by the time the nitrous reached the combustion chamber it would already be close to oxidizing....then by pressurizing the carburetor their adding more fuel to cope with the nitrous added.....in a dry kit, i dont think the tiny amount of gas in the 1-2 feet of line you have is going to effect how hard your shot hits...a purge valve in this application to me would be a waste of money, of course my own opinion

[ohsobad_chevy]

Originally posted by sixer3
well, the boondockers kit is a dry-nos kit for one, not sure if their point is to even inject liquid NO2 into the engine, it seems to me by the time the nitrous reached the combustion chamber it would already be close to oxidizing....then by pressurizing the carburetor their adding more fuel to cope with the nitrous added.....in a dry kit, i dont think the tiny amount of gas in the 1-2 feet of line you have is going to effect how hard your shot hits...a purge valve in this application to me would be a waste of money, of course my own opinion

Your probably right...on a quad, like you said, I don't think that it is necessary. On a car, however, it is very necessary. Nitrous will not oxidize, after all you will be injecting it right into the air flow of the carb.

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by sixer3
well, a purge removes the gas from the lines between the bottle and the solenoid....how long could that line possibly be on a quad, especially one using a dry nos kit going to the air-box, you definately could hook it up, but would it really purge anything?....

That's what I was wondering.... Whether there would be enough in the line to actually create a cool spray.

[400exrules]

some of the banshees at the dragstrip i race at purge their nitrous at the line

[sixer3]

nitrous oxidizes either way, thats why nitrous works so well, when nitrous oxidizes it braks apart basically into pure oxygen which can up to triple the oxygen content in your motor, this is why fuel needs to be a. injected with it such as a wet nitrous kit, or B. pressure through the carb to achieve the same type of thing....


boondockers kit seems to be oxidizing earlier, nitrous oxidizes at a high temperature (forget what temp) but im sure very little if any liquid is making it all the way to the combustion chmber in the boondockers kit, so a purge is un-necessary,

in a car where the lines are up to 10 feet it is VERY necessary to purge lines because the jets set are not set up for pre-oxidized nitrous, which will cause a lean mixture if not purged..

atleast this is how i understan it, i could be wrong but wilkin will clear it up when he reads this...

[ohsobad_chevy]

I understand that nitrous will oxydize, but he was asking if it will be too oxydized by the time it reaches the combustion chamber. At least thats how I understood the question. I shoulda completed the sentence with: "It wont be too oxydized by the time it enters the combustoin chamber"

[sixer3]

ooOO i get it now:)....i was just trying to feel smart, since i know a little about the subject:cool:

[ohsobad_chevy]

Originally posted by sixer3
ooOO i get it now:)....i was just trying to feel smart, since i know a little about the subject:cool:

Roger, I just was trying to correct myself. I just went back and re-read my post and I seen that I needed to make that correction. :)

[MarkyNark]

I worked a Poondocker (sorry) Boondocker for a while. Its not nessesary to purge that system. Nitrous nozzles are located on the back of your K&N, and the EXTRA fuel is forced down the carb via airpressure from the Boondoggle (sorry) manifold. So, since the nitrous is placed so far back from the extra fuel, and not at the intake boot like NX, and Holly, there is no need to purge.

[MarkyNark]

Originally posted by ohsobad_chevy
I understand that nitrous will oxydize, but he was asking if it will be too oxydized by the time it reaches the combustion chamber. At least thats how I understood the question. I shoulda completed the sentence with: "It wont be too oxydized by the time it enters the combustoin chamber"

Nitrous does age, even more in a 4 stroke because the gulping affect from a four stroke. It moves the air back and fourth, eventually reaching the engine. A better way to put nitrous is in the air tube of your ATV, between the air filter and the carb.

Unfortunatly, the Boondoggle manifold is not very efficient in that position.

[bradrenea]

Originally posted by sixer3
nitrous oxidizes either way, thats why nitrous works so well, when nitrous oxidizes it braks apart basically into pure oxygen which can up to triple the oxygen content in your motor, this is why fuel needs to be a. injected with it such as a wet nitrous kit, or B. pressure through the carb to achieve the same type of thing....


boondockers kit seems to be oxidizing earlier, nitrous oxidizes at a high temperature (forget what temp) but im sure very little if any liquid is making it all the way to the combustion chmber in the boondockers kit, so a purge is un-necessary,

in a car where the lines are up to 10 feet it is VERY necessary to purge lines because the jets set are not set up for pre-oxidized nitrous, which will cause a lean mixture if not purged..

atleast this is how i understan it, i could be wrong but wilkin will clear it up when he reads this...

Actually, the nitrous will bleed pressure off, which will cause a RICH condition if the lines are not purged, not lean. And it's not VERY necessary to have a purge kit on a car, it's just helpful. If you don't purge it, it will cause a rich condition for a VERY short period of time, then it will run fine.
I have a camaro with 17' of nitrous line, and it will clear up within 15 feet of the starting line at the track. Timewise, I don't really know, but I am running 1.40 60 foot times, so I would guess that it is clearing up within 2-3 /10th of a second.

[MarkyNark]

With a boondocker kit, nitrous pressure is actually what drives the fuel pressure. So, if you dont have pressure in the lines, no extra pressure in the carb and no rich condition. I dont much care for Holly or NX, which does indeed need to be purged when too much pressure builds up in the nitrous bottle and can cause a LEAN condition. By bleeding off the bottle (purge), temperature is reduced dramatically.

To those that may not know about nitrous - this is the entire problem with Holly and NX. If the bottle pressure is to high, its run lean, if its too low it runs rich. Which is why people bleed off pressure (too hot) or use a bottle heater (too low).

The Boondocker is second generation. They use the pressure from the bottle to drive air pressure back to the float bowl(s) of the carb to try and compensate for the nitrous bottle pressure. While the attempt is to keep in balance the Air/fuel ratio, it really doesnt even do that very well, plus it surges and sometimes give high horsepower and low horsepower. And, because it pressurizes your float bowls on your carbs, you have limited nitrous button time - usually no more than 7 seconds.

The best system on the market at this time is the Gen III BOSS Nitrous system that utilizes a pressure regulator. So, the nitrous is always the same - hot, cold, low elevation, high elevation - it never changes. So, there is no longer a need for not only purging, but the silly manometers that Boondockers use. And no limit on button time.

If you have to purge, that should tell you alot right there about what kind of system you have. If you dont understand the reasons for purging, why you need it, and why you dont, then you will run the risk of running to rich or too lean. - You have to be the regulator, unless you have a system with one. :eek2:

[bradrenea]

I have to disagree with you about the part where you said the purge is to bleed off bottle pressure. It simply purges the air out of the lines, hence the name "purge valve". That is why you hear racers purging the system on the line, and they stop when the white fog appears. Most cars have the bottle in the trunk and the pressure guage is on the bottle, so they can't even read the guage at the time they are purging the lines. Most racers (talking cars, not quads) use a bottle heater to raise the bottle pressure so the system is more consistent.

But that is just the typical use for the purge valve, you are right that it CAN be used to bleed off bottle pressure if it gets too high.

[MarkyNark]

Originally posted by bradrenea
I have to disagree with you about the part where you said the purge is to bleed off bottle pressure. It simply purges the air out of the lines, hence the name "purge valve". That is why you hear racers purging the system on the line, and they stop when the white fog appears. Most cars have the bottle in the trunk and the pressure guage is on the bottle, so they can't even read the guage at the time they are purging the lines. Most racers (talking cars, not quads) use a bottle heater to raise the bottle pressure so the system is more consistent.

But that is just the typical use for the purge valve, you are right that it CAN be used to bleed off bottle pressure if it gets too high.

I stand by everything I said.

Tell me something bradrenea, have you ever owned a nitrous sytem for an ATV?????

[bradrenea]

No I have not owned a nitrous system for an ATV, but I do have one on a pro street 67 camaro. The way I see it, a purge valve is a purge valve, and it does not matter if it is on a race car, an ATV, or a golf cart for that matter, it serves the same purpose.

[MarkyNark]

He's talking about a purge valve for a BOONDOCKER nitrous system - HELLO? Your are saying that you've never used a purge valve on YOUR system to lower the bottle temp? Further, the distance between the bottle and the nitrous spray (fogger on NOS, and Manifold on Boondocker) is very small on an ATV. This eliminates the need to purge a nitrous line on an ATV. Think about it. You are using your 17 feet of nitrous line on a car to give advice on 3 feet of nitrous line on an ATV. Bad advice.

This is EXACTLY why Holly NOS does not include a purging system on their ATV kit.

:grr:

[bradrenea]

uhhh, the line distance thing has already been discussed, and it has already been stated that the purge valve is not needed on an ATV. I have in no way argued with that statement.
If you would have read my first post, I was not talking about an ATV, I was replying to Sixer3's post where he said it is VERY necessary to purge the lines on a car, and I in turn stated that it was not necessary, it only helped. I was talking about cars, not atv's. And no, I have never used a purge valve to bleed off bottle pressure on my car, there has never been a need to.

[MarkyNark]

I rest my case. This is an ATV thread and forum NOT a automotive forum. They are indeed different systems, not only on different vehicles but different brands altogether. I just wanted to clarify this because people will read your post and make decisions based on it. Quite simply, its really bad to compare something on an ATV to something on a car - even worse when its not even the same brand.

The application is different, the brand is different the the environmental conditions are different.

[bradrenea]

I am glad you feel better.

[MarkyNark]

I always feel good when I debate the facts rather than stoop to a personal level. ;)

Im ready when you want to debate nitrous for ATVs anytime. :devil: