my 416 vs his 440

[PsychoDave]

my friend who has his 440 done and (broken in) with a high lift cam, 11:1 comp, hardened rockers and HD springs WB rev box and full exhaust (cost him about $1500+) and me with my 416,
xr cam 10.8:1 comp, WB r exhaust (cost me $500) raced today!!!! I won 9 out of 10 races. My 416 was faster off the line through all of the gears and the one race i lost (bad start) i was gaining on him but we ran out of room. my friend was soooooo upset. He is an excellent rider and we both weigh about the same.......

i guess it is safe to say a 416 IS faster. (i can hear all the 440 owners yelling at me now!!!)

[twisted threads]

lol... I promise I wont yell. I would half to say that the 416 is a great motor combo. for the Ex and if someone cant afford a 440 kit I would get a 416. Does your friends 440 have any head work done(ported)? I know one thing your bike can be a 440 and if you don't have some work done to the head it won't even make a diference. Im glad to here your bike ran good! :) One day I was down at Coos Bay (dunes) at box car hill and there was a bunch of 4 strokes racing so I went over there and spanked them and there was a guy watching me and he had a 400ex so he came over and raced me and to my surprise I only beat him by a half of bike. So next time out of the hole he got me but I ran him down and beat him by about a half of bike again. Last race I got him out of the hole and beat him by about 1 1/2 bike lenth. He was Pissed!!:D I asked what he had and it was a decked out 416 built by Four Stroke Tech (FST) so I was very happy about that. :cool:

[L.Vegas400]

is this a good theory to not. i want to up my stock 400, but i think what im going to do is start off with a 416. if something goes wrong go to a 426, then eventially a 440. does this sound reasonable? instead of going directly with a 440 adn not be able to downsize.

[PsychoDave]

heres where i am confused! my friend with the 440 has bigger valves and a LITTLE porting done! when we raced we were side by side for a while then i would start to pull away. i expected to be beaten, but it was the other way around. i know i dont have super quad.....i think the no name who built his quad did something wrong.

L.Vegas400 i think what you said makes sense.....thats why i did a 416 first, then if needed a 426 then i either get a new cylinder or go to a 440.

[Dave400ex]

That`s good to hear. That means a well built 416 can beat a 440 some times.

L.Vegas400, Yes that does make sense and that is why I really want to do a 416 first then go to the 425.

[L.Vegas400]

what have the average costs of a 416 kit been? nothin to fancy just the basics. trying to get an idea of how much to save.

[PsychoDave]

the kit from marcums was 285 w/ all the gaskets and an XR400 cam. the cylinder boring was 65 bucks. so your looking at about $350. plus you have to do the work to install it. if you take it somewhere they will prob charge 200-300 bucks.

[L.Vegas400]

basic maint. will be done by me. assembly and such. so average under $400.

[Smoker]

That's why I did the 416 first, longevity. One bore over to the 426, then when it eventually needs rebuilt the 440. I'll put a heavier rod and have the crank pins welded at the same time I do the 440. A lot of people say it's unnecessary to reinforce the rod for a 440 but too much is just enough, I hate worrying about stuff coming apart when I beat it. :p

[honda400exrider]

this might sound weird, but i can beat my frenz 416 with a tc cam, k&n high flo, jetting, and a yoshi 14 out of 15 times. i can also beat my friend on a 440. the 1 with a 416 weighs the same as me. i do have to admit, he has a **** of a lot more mid-low end then me, but thats weird as ****. also i beat him in the start, then he catches a lil in mid and i beat him by a lil at the end. the 440 we both kill, in all ranges (he weighs like 170-180 compared to us, around 125).

[Crypted1]

I recently talked to Scott at Pro Fab ATV. He said the baddest motor out there is a 426 13:1 comp. He said they quit building the 440 because the 416s and the 426 will beat them hands down. Of cource this is a full race motor set up with bigger valves, and cam, ported and polished, 39mm FCR, and a pipe. I was kinda suprised that he recommended the 426 for MX to me. He also said the 440 was not a good choice for MX because it took so long to reach max power. I'm rebuilding my engine to a 426 now.

[honda400exrider]

who makes the 426? i think that tc makes the 425.... unless thats what yer talking about??

[Dave400ex]

The 425 and 426 are difference in Piston brands. The 425 is a Wiseco and the 426 is a JE. I think that`s why.

[Ricky g]

I would have to see it to belive it, a 416 or 426 beating a 440, the only way this is happening is if some one screwed up that 440 kit when installing it,(very possible), my 440 with head work and a stroked crank will beat 90% of the quads that try to race it.

Ricky g

[TRX250XFIRE]

Crypted1- u just made my day. my motor is out right now getting bored to a 426 and my buddy is doing his to a 440. i hope all this talk is true, me and him race MX to so im really happy i went with the 426--just a quick Q what do u guys think is the better piston, wiseco of JE??
thanks- cody

[Dave400ex]

I like JE but TC told me I would be using a Wiseco in his 425.

A 416/426 will out run a 440 in a drag race. this is becouse the smaller ones canrev quicker meaning you get to the top of each gear quick meaning you will out accerlate a 440. a 425/426 is actually 425.7cc's no matter what piston you run most 440 are 432cc's not that much of a differnce. that's my $.02
warriorman FDO will usr a JE piston

[skemp]

I like JE pistons.

Who would u guys suggest going with on the 426 kit.

my pic would be For Dirt Only, but i guess some of you guys could have guessed that. look at the pic in the 465 stroker post to see what there 426 can do, the white quad

[Ricky g]

This is what i've read and heard about bore and stroke mods, endurance racing engines favore long rod strokers with small bore cylinders, endurance orientated engines add more cylinders to get more displacement and power. Engines with short rod strokers and big bored cylinders favores closed course Mx racing.

Ricky g

[FullBore52]

Ok...answer me this...If that 13:1 426 with porting, big valves, carb, cam, and all the stuff that goes with it is faster than EVERY other 400ex setup, why doesnt someone take one to FSW and spank all the EX's with it? I would be willing to bet a 13:1 sparks 505 would whip its butt up olds...

[Ricky g]

Originally posted by GNCCer
A 416/426 will out run a 440 in a drag race. this is becouse the smaller ones canrev quicker meaning you get to the top of each gear quick meaning you will out accerlate a 440. a 425/426 is actually 425.7cc's no matter what piston you run most 440 are 432cc's not that much of a differnce. that's my $.02
warriorman FDO will usr a JE piston

Are you sure 426 can rev quicker than a 440, they both have the same stroke?(if no stroker mods are done), I bet they rev the same, but the 440 will have more hp.

Ricky g

[FullBore52]

Originally posted by Ricky g


Are you sure 426 can rev quicker than a 440, they both have the same stroke?(if no stroker mods are done), I bet they rev the same, but the 440 will have more hp.

Ricky g

The piston has more mass to move (not much, but some) and a little more weight...

[Blackguywithouta400]

Lets start off by saying that the smaller bores 87mm = 416, 88mm = 425 will in some cases depending on the motor rev out faster then a 440 = 89mm due to the lower weight of the piston, this all comes down to reciprocating mass in the motor. Now if I took a 440 piston and lighted to match a 425 piston I could have an even better combo. I could have the torque of the 440 and reving ease of the 425. Now also another very important thing in the 400’s is the cam his can make a world of difference on how a engine runs and revs out. Now givin that each engine has the same cr, cam, exhaust, carb setup I would be willing to say the 416 will rev faster then the 440 now if the 440 develops more toque down low then the rider will have to gear his different and learn to shift in his power band. Another problem ive seen is when engine builders build motors that make very good power gains but in a very small area of the power curve. The problem with this is that when your drag racing and your in the meat of the power and u shift gears the motor falls out of the meat of the power band and is perceived to be slower cause it takes that much longer for him to get back into the meat of the power we cant control this on the 400 since we cant change the transmission gearing, so the goal would be to build a motor that not only produces great peak HP but has a very wide power band I hope this makes since.

[Ricky g]

Originally posted by Screamin 'Shee


The piston has more mass to move (not much, but some) and a little more weight...

The only thing different is the moment of inertia for the bigger piston, it takes more force to get it moving, but this is compensated for with the bigger draw of charge that the bigger piston draws in.

Ricky g

[Blackguywithouta400]

only if it can breath that much with the cam and exhuast will it get the max charge/draw

OK here we go again :grr :grr

How many times you guys going to go through this? :confused:

There are prob like 20 good threads explaining this issue with the 416 or 425 or 440 etc.

In short the reason why so many 440's dont perform to their ability is that they are not set up correctly.

This motor makes more low end power even in its worst (wiseco kit) configuration but if not set up properly it will fall off way fast. This is why so many people will tell of the 440 they raced getting the jump and then they just powered past them, well this and the rider of the 440 shifting too late.

You need to remember that the changes is volume (cc's) from the various over bores is small, and seem even smaller when looked at in % so how much diff can you expect?

I have said this before but if the smaller higher rev theory was correct then we should all update our motors to the stock bore with a high comp piston.

:blah :blah

[Ricky g]

Originally posted by Blackguyona400
only if it can breath that much with the cam and exhuast will it get the max charge/draw

Putting in a 440 kit without changing the cam, exhaust, and intake, is a waste of time and money, if your going to change the bore size by that much, you may as well let the engine breath so it can produce hp, 426's may beat 440's if they're not set up right, but a properly set up 440 will beat 426 all the way through the power band. I'd race for pink slips I'm so sure of this.

Ricky g

[Dave400ex]

I think if a Sparks 416 and a Sparks 440 were the exact same expect for the one being a 440, I think the 440 would waste the 416. Same for a 440 and a 465. Is that right? lol