Hey guys...need your help

[deepcj7]

Thanks for stopping by and helping me with my problem. I ran a search and found someone with a similar problem, but they never posted a solution or contacted me back.
Anyways, I just installed new clutch fibers and springs, my steel plates where in good condition. I also use a magura clutch but I don't think that is the problem. My symptoms are that I can't find neutral while the engine is running, it pops from first to second gear no matter how light I try to shift it. Also the clutch starts to disengage(let out on the clutch) way to early....say if I had the lever squeezed all the way in to the grips, and I go to let it out it, the quad starts to move when the lever is about an inch out from the grip. Also while in gear with the clutch engaged and idling the quad wants to creep.
So I think that my clutch is not totally engaging, I did use a maual....the only thing that I can't remember is if I torqued the springs or not (7 ft. lbs), I don't remember my manual saying that I had to....could that be a problem? Thanks very much for your help and it's on a 00 400EX.

[GPracer2500]

Your Magura clutch lever is hydraulic right? What make you think that isn't the source of the problem? Sounds to me that your clutch is not fully disengaging becuase your Magura is out of adjustment.

BTW, when you pull in a clutch lever you are disengaging the clutch. Releasing the lever engages the clutch.

[wilkin250r]

I'm not entirely sure your problems are related.

There are a few things that could cause your quad to "creep". It could be that the clutch basket is worn, or that your clutch isn't adjusted properly. You said that your clutch begins to grab really early, so I'm leaning a little towards the second reason.

Not finding neutral usually isn't a function of the clutch, which is why I say the problems aren't related. Have you tried finding neutral without the engine running?

The neutral problem might be a bent or worn shift fork.

[Iliketogofast]

I had a similar problem with the 400EX and now with the 250R; I can't find neutral unless I'm rolling... It's hard to shift into it when I'm easy, then it just pops into 2nd. I can get it when the bike is off, too.

I just think it's weird that the only time I can't get it is when the bike idles. It isn't a problem to me unless something is going wrong inside the motor - anybody know?

I'll say about your problem that I concur with Wilkin. It's probably that your clutch isn't adjusted properly, or maybe you need to bleed it. I'm not familiar with the hydraulic clutches but I'm willing to bet that's your problem.

[deepcj7]

Thanks for the response guys.
I to would blame it on clutch adjustment, but since I cant adjust the magura hydraulic clutch it is throwing off my reasoning. I did bleed the clutch lever prior to reinstalling it but maybe I didn't get all the air out. It did appear like I was getting the normal travel out of the clutch actuating arm, but I will try it again. What do you guys think about what I said about the clutch springs, what happens if there to tight? Prior to replacing my clutch everything was working properly. Also, it shifts into neutral like normal when the engines is off. Any other ideas?

[deepcj7]

Alright, what about a simple question....when looking down on the clutch actuator (part where the cable attaches at the engine side), with the clutch lever out, the actuator points toward 11:00, and 12:00 with the clutch lever pulled in. Is this what you guys are seeing on your quad? Right now I have the magura disconnected and the cable reconnected to troubleshoot my clutch problem....it's getting better, but I suspect it's suppose to move near 1:00 with the lever pulled in, please help. Thanks

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by deepcj7
What do you guys think about what I said about the clutch springs, what happens if there to tight?

I know that many people regard me as a guru of technical information (and well they should). This title also comes with responsibility, I'm VERY careful not to give out bad information. I almost always double-check my answers before I post them so the information I give is infallible.

However, I have to admit, I didn't do that this time. I'm going from memory, I didn't double-check this, so I'm not 100% certain on this.

But I believe the bolts that hold the clutch springs tighten down against the inner clutch hub. You need the bolts and washers to seat down firmly on the clutch hub, and that's it. The bolts don't compress the springs all the way. The bolt only provides a stopper to trap the spring between the clutch hub and pressure plate.

This would mean that it would be impossible to make them too tight. Whether 5ft. lbs of torque, or 500ft. lbs of torque, it's all the same to the springs. Now, obviously 500ft. lbs would break the bolts, but it's not going to affect the springs at all, or the operation of the clutch. As long as they are seated firmly, and not broken, the actual torque on them doesn't matter.

The only reason you have a torque of 7ft. lbs. is to ensure that it's tight enough that they won't back out, but not so tight that they'll strip the threads out of the hub. In reality, they would probably work just fine anywhere from 5 to 12 ft. lbs. Heck, it would even work fine if one was 5, another was 7, two of them were 12, and one was 10 ft lbs.

So put that notion out of your head, the torque on the springs is not your problem.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by deepcj7
Alright, what about a simple question....when looking down on the clutch actuator (part where the cable attaches at the engine side), with the clutch lever out, the actuator points toward 11:00, and 12:00 with the clutch lever pulled in. Is this what you guys are seeing on your quad? Right now I have the magura disconnected and the cable reconnected to troubleshoot my clutch problem....it's getting better, but I suspect it's suppose to move near 1:00 with the lever pulled in, please help. Thanks

Mine moves from ~8:00 to ~9:00 (give or take 10 minutes). Total movement isn't much more than one "hour" (maybe a tad less, if anything). If you hear from a few others and find 8-9 is normal, than perhaps something is amiss with the lifter arm mechanism. :confused:

I think wilkin is right about the clutch spring bolts--they tighten against the inner hub. The service manual just says this about those bolts: "Install the clutch springs and bolts. Tighten the bolts in a criss-cross pattern in several steps". And that's it. Oddly, no torque values are specifically mentioned. They must fall under the "Standard Torque Values" specs--9lbs for a 6mm flange bolt (8mm head, large flange).