pump or race gas

[norcalduner]

i checked compression using 2 good testers on my ct 350 and got a reading of around 180psi give or take 5 psi. my question is can i run 91 octane pump gas ONLY ?:confused:

[GPracer2500]

Barely

Really, you'd be pushing it too close to make it worth it.

I've got a jetski that pumped to 180psi on the nose. I ran 109 gallons of 91 pump through it with no issues. One day I mixed 1 gallon of 87 with 4 gallons of 91. This was the result:

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/8164/p1010030cropthumb21mh.jpg

Can you say detonation? The ring lands at the exhaust ports gave way and toasted the engine. The other piston wasn't quite as bad but showed signs of piston errosion. I think I may have been getting a tiny amount of deto for a while with 91. You just can't hear it on a ski like you can on a quad/bike. The 87/91 mix pushed it over the edge.

Now, maybe your 250r isn't as prone to detonation as my ski--I don't know. But I wouldn't risk it. Get one batch of old gas that's lost some octane....

Your CT350 deserves better.

my $0.02

[zedicus00]

i run 91 oct an im at about 203lbs psi. mixing 87 with race gas is not a good thing. it will give you something lower then 91 octaien with worse burning characteristics. some places sell 93, that would be quite safe on 180psi. theres a place here that sells 10% ethonol blend fuel, it doesnt work for crap in highcompression 2 strokes. doesnt ping, just doesnt have any power.

[fireburns99]

I also run 91 with over 200psi of compression. No detonation at all. I heard that it has to do with your squish.

[GPracer2500]

Huh. You guys are running 91 with 200psi? I guess my experience with my ski may not be relevent then [shrug].

[dober250R]

ski motors are a little different animal than a quad motor. I've heard that anything over 200 you should run race gas. So i'm guessing 180 should run 91 or higher. I used to take 93 octane and dumb a whole bunch of octane booster to raise it to 110. this was a bad idea!!! 15 min at the dunes and my piston became a dust collector on my shelf!!!! do not cheap out on gas, it will be a larger headache in the long run. Do a little research on which octane is recommded and buy that octane.

[GPracer2500]

Yeah, I guess they're different (although I'm not sure exactly why). I've since heard from ski tuners that 180psi is the rule of thumb race/pump threashold for skis.

So 200psi is a typical race/pump threashold for 250rs?

[zedicus00]

theres too many variables to say '200 is cut off garunteed' it depends on everything from jetting, to the whether that day, how cool yur engine is running, list goes on. push it till it pings then back off a little... 200 is usually a safe place to start but by no meens is it a golden rule.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by zedicus00
theres too many variables to say '200 is cut off garunteed' it depends on everything from jetting, to the whether that day, how cool yur engine is running, list goes on. push it till it pings then back off a little... 200 is usually a safe place to start but by no meens is it a golden rule.

Gotcha. I understand there's no golden rules.

[norcalduner]

anyone else running 91 octane at around 180 psi compression without any problems ? thanks for all you guys response.

[Scott-300ex]

I heard 180 and up was time to use race gas.

But if you do mix 50/50 and your oil. Or mix 60-91/30-race.

[250r4life]

i had 215 and ran fine on av gas

[Scott-300ex]

I heard your not supposed to run Aviator gas.

Its made up of stuff that will damage your cylinder.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
...Its made up of stuff that will damage your cylinder.

Care to elaborate on that?

[250r4life]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Care to elaborate on that?


:D

[Scott-300ex]

Um its just wut I heard, May be right, May be wrong, but cuz Airplanes can go upside down the fuel is made different or somethin...........I don't know.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Um its just wut I heard, May be right, May be wrong, but cuz Airplanes can go upside down the fuel is made different or somethin...........I don't know.

what???







note to you... dont listen to anything whoever told you that says... :devil:

[beerock]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Um its just wut I heard, May be right, May be wrong, but cuz Airplanes can go upside down the fuel is made different or somethin...........I don't know.

lol um if you dont know then dont spread false info......


av fuel is fine the only thing is trying to jet with av fuel is kind of hard because of the aditives in it which will USUALLY make your plug look like its LEAN even if its rich..

[250r4life]

are you sure Beerock?
I think Scott-300ex was onto something :devil: :D :devil:

[BLACKeR]

I heard your not supposed to run Aviator gas.

Its made up of stuff that will damage your cylinder.


always said never backed up with any fact. i run av gas my bro runs av gas in the R's and he also ran it in his 75hp+ banshee. never han an issue, and at around $4 a gal you can beat it. i have heard that its octain rating is different that the automotive rating system, if av gas was rated the same as cars it would be around 120 dont know how true that is, but i did hear it from a reliable source.

[matt250r21]

Guys av gas is for airplanes!! It may work for you ok, but that fuel is designed to run at a constant RPM range. I've read somewhere in MXA, a gas shootout that av gas is not the hot setup for MX or quads. Just my 2 cents.

[250r4life]

yes ive read several articles as well... and heard several things as well... ive heard/read people saying UNI's are better than K&Ns and vice versa, ive heard people saying run 32:1, others 40:1, others 50:1, and others 100:1... some people say haulers are the best, while others say sand stars... some people like Klotz, others like Maxima.... shoot, in my industry, some people say interest rates are going to keep going up and will not be how they were, others say they will hover around where they are at, others say they will go back down... some say the AZ housing market is going to crash...


but the point is, everybody has their opinions, and even scientific "facts" are disputed and not universally accepted... through years and years of use AV gas has been great to me and several of my close friends... and the moral is... dont beleive everything you read...

[beerock]

Originally posted by 250r4life
and the moral is... dont beleive everything you read...

great freakin post i especially like the end..

[250r4life]

Originally posted by beerock
great freakin post i especially like the end..

lol :D

[matt250r21]

Its called av gas for a reason, i.e. airplane, not "run it in your quad gas"! But run what you want. I don't care, just wanted to help with my opinion, not start a pissing contest.

[250r4life]

ive never heard of "atv gas," so what am i supposed to run in my atv?

im not and wasnt trying to be a prick, im just saying so many people have so many views on here and in general, that you cant beleive everything you hear/read... i take everything i read/hear with a grain of salt... even like with Wilkin, or Beerock, or my good buddy who has taught me tons about R's... there are a lot of things that i totally agree with them on, but there are other issues where my opinion differs...

[BLACKeR]

Its called av gas for a reason, i.e. airplane, not "run it in your quad gas"! But run what you want. I don't care, just wanted to help with my opinion, not start a pissing contest.

most automotive gas contains 10% ethanol which is on the border of running like crap in high performance 2-strokes. i wonder what kind of gas they run in the freestyle/racing airplanes, probly automotive gas theres no was AV gas could handle being put into a stall, and then pitched down twards the earth with the engine screaming, do a couple barrel rolls and climb till it stalls again.

[Scott-300ex]

Originally posted by matt250r21
Its called av gas for a reason, i.e. airplane, not "run it in your quad gas"!

Thats halarious. Man I'm still laughin.




And don't tell me I'm spreading false info and I'm wrong cuz I heard it from someone, just becuz you've never heard it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

[rebelbanshee]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Um its just wut I heard, May be right, May be wrong, but cuz Airplanes can go upside down the fuel is made different or somethin...........I don't know.

wow that is going on my list of hilarious reasons not to run AV gas its right up there with "it burns colder so it will crack your piston skirt"

AV gas is made to much higher consistancy standards than pump gas, Stores longer, Has lots of octane, costs less than race gas (which using some peoples logic shouldnt be used unless you race) and I have never experienced any negative side effects from using it.

I have never read or heard anything along the lines of "I acually put AV gas in my quad and it ran really bad unless I held a constant RPM and drove upside down" Ive only heard hear-say about it being bad. I actually run it and my bike FLYS!!

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Thats halarious. Man I'm still laughin.




And don't tell me I'm spreading false info and I'm wrong cuz I heard it from someone, just becuz you've never heard it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

holy cow, i cant beleive you even had the nerve to post after your insanely retarded comment at the top of this page... im in awe...

ive heard a lot of things and a lot of theories on av gas, and that by far has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard... im sorry but i mean that in all sincerity

[250r4life]

Originally posted by rebelbanshee
wow that is going on my list of hilarious reasons not to run AV gas its right up there with "it burns colder so it will crack your piston skirt"

AV gas is made to much higher consistancy standards than pump gas, Stores longer, Has lots of octane, costs less than race gas (which using some peoples logic shouldnt be used unless you race) and I have never experienced any negative side effects from using it.

I have never read or heard anything along the lines of "I acually put AV gas in my quad and it ran really bad unless I held a constant RPM and drove upside down" Ive only heard hear-say about it being bad. I actually run it and my bike FLYS!!

thank you... exactly... someone who thinks along the same lines...

like he said, it is much more consistent, and you can get a batch of bad gas at the pump... last longer... i wouldnt run any pump gas that is more than 3 weeks old in my R, but i trust AV for up to two months...

whatever... ya'll go spend your $7 or $8 dollars on gas, and i'll stay with my AV, and i'll still beat you and even have money left over to take your girlfriend out after :D lol :D

[BLACKeR]

personally I liked how he spelled because (becuz) it really lends credibility to his argument....

[Scott-300ex]

Originally posted by 250r4life
holy cow, i cant beleive you even had the nerve to post after your insanely retarded comment at the top of this page... im in awe...

ive heard a lot of things and a lot of theories on av gas, and that by far has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard... im sorry but i mean that in all sincerity

Ok, I'm just saying this cuz Its wut I heard and you call me a retard, cuz I'm just letting you know.

Man If I say this about the gas your running just think wut you would do If I said your bike was SLOW, you'd prolly go kill someone.

Your not perfect, just cuz someone has a negative comment about wut your doing you gotta go act like a baby, whine, and cry just to make yourself feel good? Ok dude, thats up to you, but don't mess up this thread just BECUZ you can't deal with it.

[novaracr70]

so me fuel info im going to try and find a page on av vs race i read http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/rick/gas2/

[novaracr70]

not the 1 i was looking for but good info on av gas ( We are constantly approached by owners who are trying to craft a way that can allow them to get race gas horsepower, without having to run expensive race fuel. Sadly, it just can’t be done.

Normal “octane boosters” are capable of making really poor gas into decent gas, but they cannot make good gas into race gas. That is, normal boosters can make 86 octane to 89. However the same booster can only make 91 into 91.5 or 92. Keep in mind that most octane boosters do not turn bad gas into high performance fuel … they make bad gas into a fuel that is “less likely” to harm your engine. We discourage the use of octane booster except in emergencies (even in 87 octane 1390s).

One alternative used by many owners is to run a mix of aviation fuel (aka “av gas) with their 91 octane pump gas. Av gas is usually around 100 octane, but av gas has other properties that are important.

One of the main qualities that makes av gas desirable for aircraft use is that it is actually lighter (per gallon) than conventional gasolines. This reduced weight is important for small underpowered planes that need to be as light as possible to take off. Normal gasoline molecules have two “ends”. The “light” end of the molecule ignites easily, and burns with a quick low temperature flame (as a piece of newspaper would burn). The “heavy” end of the molecule is harder to ignite, but burns with a much hotter flame (as a log would burn). To make av gas lighter, the heavy end of the molecule is omitted to reduce the weight of each gallon. Since most aviation engines are low rpm motors, they experience little power loss. However if 100% av gas is used in a high output pwc engine made for race gas, there is a visible loss of power because the “heavy” ends are not there to contribute to the making of power. All that said, we consider it a great idea to mix 50/50 av/91oct fuel for 91 octane 1390 owners who want a little extra temperature protection during exceptionally hard operation. A 50/50 mix still contains enough “heavy” ends” to allow for good overall power and has a much-improved octane (about 96).)

[Scott-300ex]

Oh so wait, AV gas isn't as good as race or pump? Cuz it doesn't have heavy ends?



:D


Thats sarcasm for those who won't understand.

[novaracr70]

atleast it was read lol

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by novaracr70
atleast it was read lol

Are you kidding? I love that technical stuff.

Are you with GroupK?

[wilkin250r]

I know a lot of people that have run AV gas for a long time without any problems. Me, personally, I won't do it, but that doesn't mean it's "bad". I just prefer to run actual race gas. Av gas is more consistent than pump gas, but race gas is even more consistent still.

Now, the post about the heavy molecules IS true. AV gas has a lower specific gravity than pump gas. However, I don't think the reason is for weight savings during take-off, the reason is high-altitude operation. The lighter fuel will atomize better in thinner air.

This also poses a small problem with 2-strokes. Because AV gas has a lower specific gravity, premix oil is more likely to separate. Premix oil is specifically designed to mix and stay suspended in pump gas or race gas, something that DOES have those heavy molecules. It won't separate within an hour, but it might over several days. If you're running AV gas, be sure to shake up your can before you refuel, or shake your quad if it has been sitting for days. A few wheelies should do the trick.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Ok, I'm just saying this cuz Its wut I heard and you call me a retard, cuz I'm just letting you know.

Man If I say this about the gas your running just think wut you would do If I said your bike was SLOW, you'd prolly go kill someone.

Your not perfect, just cuz someone has a negative comment about wut your doing you gotta go act like a baby, whine, and cry just to make yourself feel good? Ok dude, thats up to you, but don't mess up this thread just BECUZ you can't deal with it.

1- i did not call you a retard, i said your statement was retarded, and i still feel that way
2- my response has nothing to do with me running av gas... my response is because you said something completely retarded and you have no idea what you are talking about, and then when somebody else says that av gas isnt for quads, you start laughing like you know any better... "see, told you so" when you have no idea what youre talking about...

so yes, you get clowned on for trying to talk like you know something when you have absolutely no idea what youre talking about, and then when people notice you have no idea what youre talking about you still try and maintain like you had an idea in the 1st place...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Oh so wait, AV gas isn't as good as race or pump? Cuz it doesn't have heavy ends?



:D


Thats sarcasm for those who won't understand.

i thought cuz it was meant to run upside down? oh, so the heavy ends work good running upside down... is that what you meant... oh, silly me... boy dont i look foolish? :devil:

[250r4life]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Are you kidding? I love that technical stuff.



im with him

thanks for the input- from somebody who actually has an idea what he is talking about...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I know a lot of people that have run AV gas for a long time without any problems. Me, personally, I won't do it, but that doesn't mean it's "bad". I just prefer to run actual race gas. Av gas is more consistent than pump gas, but race gas is even more consistent still.


now im not saying and havent said that AV gas is better than race gas... if i had the two i would definately run race gas...
im am saying that AV gas is better than pump gas however...

as Wu Tang once said (not exactly the most intelligent people to quote, although their theory is accurate) C.R.E.A.M- Cash Rules Everything Around Me! its all about the dough... and as they say in the accounting world, you have to do a cost-benefit analysis...

i do not run pump gas in my bike, and av gas is a great low cost alternative to race gas... in fact, in regards to mixing, i have been known at times to mix av gas with race gas...

for my needs, i do not need a full 110 octane with my bike, and i will not own a bike that needs that... and for as much as i go riding and for the fuel that i burn in the course of a year, the savings from running race gas amount up to a pretty penny, with no side affects...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by wilkin250r

This also poses a small problem with 2-strokes. Because AV gas has a lower specific gravity, premix oil is more likely to separate. Premix oil is specifically designed to mix and stay suspended in pump gas or race gas, something that DOES have those heavy molecules. It won't separate within an hour, but it might over several days. If you're running AV gas, be sure to shake up your can before you refuel, or shake your quad if it has been sitting for days. A few wheelies should do the trick.

i think its a good idea with any two stroke to shake up your can before each fill up, no matter what gas and oil you use... and i usually dont fill it up till im about to go for another ride, so i can make sure mixed up gas is in there... and if not i'll rock it pretty good...

its a good habbit to be in and ive passed that on to whoever i have helped with two strokes...

[BLACKeR]

Oh so wait, AV gas isn't as good as race or pump? Cuz it doesn't have heavy ends?

no one said it was as good as race gas. the original post was my quad kicks over 180psi can i run pump? a "loss in power" over race gas is a lot better than the detonation you have a good chance of experiencing running 91. and at $4 a gallon savings most people would save $10-20 a weekend. for every builder the says AV gas is bad i bet you can find one that says its good. the fact of the matter is you have had a half dozen peopel who run it say its good great fine. a couple technical write ups saying it might be sketchy and someone saying it'll only work if you drive your quad upside down. feel free do draw conclusions

[norcalduner]

hey guys, i did not mean for this to be a pissing match but all i really want to know BOTTOMLINE is :

can i run 91 pump gas @sea level with around 180psi cold without getting any detonation ?

and what is the max compression number before the need to run at least a 50/50 mix ?

[DezSled]

Hey does that mean if I want to jump higher I should run AV gas because its lighter? Or should I not eat that carne asada burrito for lunch ....

[250r4life]

Originally posted by BLACKeR
no one said it was as good as race gas. the original post was my quad kicks over 180psi can i run pump? a "loss in power" over race gas is a lot better than the detonation you have a good chance of experiencing running 91. and at $4 a gallon savings most people would save $10-20 a weekend. for every builder the says AV gas is bad i bet you can find one that says its good. the fact of the matter is you have had a half dozen peopel who run it say its good great fine. a couple technical write ups saying it might be sketchy and someone saying it'll only work if you drive your quad upside down. feel free do draw conclusions

well, thats the thing- the technical write ups say themselves that if your bike only needs 100 octane, you are not doing anything but throwing money down the drain running 110 octane, as there is no power gained...

and over the course of a good dune weekend, i save more in the $35-45 dollar range...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by BLACKeR

and someone saying it'll only work if you drive your quad upside down. feel free do draw conclusions

lol... now thats funny... i dont care who you are :D

[250r4life]

Originally posted by DezSled
Hey does that mean if I want to jump higher I should run AV gas because its lighter? Or should I not eat that carne asada burrito for lunch ....

no... carne asadas are a great thing... its worth the extra weight...

of course if you eat carne asada, we will have to have a whole seperate discussion about gas :devil: :D

[DezSled]

putt puttt putttt..... its not the carne asada its the jalapenos that burn so goood...putt pputt ppputtt

great discussion guys

I just love the smell of race gas the morning...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by DezSled


I just love the smell of race gas the morning...

and in the afternoon and evening... i just dont like to be the one shelling out $7-8 a gallon for it...

but race gas with 2 stroke oil... nothing like it...

[BLACKeR]

Originally posted by norcalduner
hey guys, i did not mean for this to be a pissing match but all i really want to know BOTTOMLINE is :

can i run 91 pump gas @sea level with around 180psi cold without getting any detonation ?

and what is the max compression number before the need to run at least a 50/50 mix ?

if you could find 93, sunoco usually has it, then you might be fine, but 91 would be kinda sketchy. but you can always try it and see if it pings. engins are built different, and theres not always a set number for what works and what doesnt.

and i think we're all enjoyign our pissing match:D

[265RGUY]

a few of your statments and have facts to back it up , sounds like you've done your home work. the rest are just repeating them selfs. all i can add to this is that i run turbo blue(110oct) mixed 50/50 bell ray race oil no problems with that. i have run 91 oct. but felt like it was loading up and sputterd alot. my 2 cents

[krazykarl]

ya im running sunoco 93 with 40:1 klotz and i got 185 psi of comp. and i've had no problems, and i run her hard (knock on wood) but i also got a cool head, so that helps keep the cylinder temp down

[beerock]

Originally posted by beerock
lol um if you dont know then dont spread false info......


av fuel is fine the only thing is trying to jet with av fuel is kind of hard because of the aditives in it which will USUALLY make your plug look like its LEAN even if its rich..

i know this post of mine is very vague but this is the only reason why av gas is troube some.. the separation of the oil and gas is really not an issue so long as you rid your bike on rough terrain(it will shake it up and mix it)

its better then pump, not as good as race gas but easier on your wallet


for 180 psi, you need 93 octane

BUT if you choose to use a/v gas or race gas there are sdome properties that will actually EXTEND the life of your motor.

for example alot of a/v gas has LINKITE in it which is a molecule 5 times smaller then an oil molecule and will actually absorb into the motors metal and cause less resistance..

in race gas they use alot of lead which also forms on all metal and provides a layer of lubrication which helps the motor last longer...



scott, when you say things like YOU HEARD this, its not factual just understand that. unless YOU KNOW first hand I HEARD doesnt cut it..

[Scott-300ex]

Originally posted by beerock
scott, when you say things like YOU HEARD this, its not factual just understand that. unless YOU KNOW first hand I HEARD doesnt cut it..

I never said it was a true fact or statement, I just said "I HEARD!"

[number5]

Ive been using av gas for five years. I think it runs a little cooler. I always wondered why nobody has made a conversion to run diesel mixed with nitromethane. Drones with two stroke engines use it. Well they use jp5 mixed with nitro and castor oil. No spark plug needed just be a pain to adjust compresion timming every time you start it. Then once warmed up its great. Need a head with an adjustable dome that can be advanced while running.

[BLACKeR]

Well they use jp5 mixed with nitro and castor oil. No spark plug needed just be a pain to adjust compresion timming every time you start it. Then once warmed up its great. Need a head with an adjustable dome that can be advanced while running.

i think that those are all reasons why no one has made a conversion kit for it lol...

[number5]

Ya just kidding.

[TwistedWrangler]

Racing Gasoline Verses Aviation Gasoline
written by, and thanks to
Tim Wusz
76 Products Company

I am going to attempt to address the controversy of aviation gasoline verses racing gasoline for use in race cars. Some racers use aviation gasoline which is fine for some applications but does have shortcomings. There are several grades of aviation gasoline (avgas) that we must identify before going any farther.

1. Avgas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80.

2. Avgas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. Avgas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find.

3. Avgas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously discussed. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer.

4. Avgas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in world war II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple.


The remainder of this discussion will assume that our basis for comparison with racing gasoline is avgas 100/130 and/or 100 LL since they are both available and have acceptable octane quality for limited applications. When the word "avgas" is used, it will refer to avgas 100/130 or 100 LL.

Avgas is less dense than most racing gasolines. Instead of weighing about 6.1 to 6.3 pounds per gallon like racing gasoline, it weighs 5.8 to 5.9 pounds per gallon. The racer must compensate for this by changing to richer (larger) jets in the carburetor when changing from racing gasoline to avgas.

The other major difference is octane quality. Avgas is short on octane compared to most racing gasolines. Many racing engines with "quick" spark advance curves or with no centrifugal advance have more spark advance at low rpm than avgas and some racing gasolines can handle. The result is detonation, especially during caution periods in circle track racing because all of the spark advance is "in", rpm is low, and part throttle air fuel ratios are too lean for the operating conditions. If the driver does not "work" the throttle back and forth, pistons can be "burned" which melts away part of the aluminum piston material. Inadequate octane quality is one of the quickest ways to destroy an engine. Pistons can be severely damaged during one acceleration where detonation is present and the racer may not know what is happening until it is too late.

For maximum performance and power from a racing engine, racing gasoline will normally provide better performance than avgas. Avgas can be a good gasoline for some applications, but since most racers do not know the octane requirement of their engines, they would be better off with a "real" racing gasoline that will give them the overall resistance to detonation that they need to protect their investment. If someone has spent from $15,000 to $50,000 or more on their racing engine, it is foolish to cut corners on gasoline be sure you have a gasoline with adequate octane quality.

Other facts about Av gas (seperate from this article)
1. Av gas burns "drier"
2. Lead content lower than race fuel
3. Meant to burn at high altitudes
4. Not meant for acceleration
5. Meant to burn at a constant 3000 RPM
6. If rated with a true octane number it would be around 104

I know that race gas is more expensive than av gas but, you should compare the two on the dyno. I know many people that run a high octane fuel when not needed. They feel like they are making more power because it runs crisper but in all actuality on the dyno probably losing hp. VP makes a lot of fuels specifically for different types of motors. For all you four stroke guys run LOW octane. You only want enough octane to resist detonation, 2 strokes can run higher octane than needed due to the higher RPM. Contact your nearest VP office for more info. www.VPRacingFuels.com

[matt250r21]

Thankyou for your post TwistedWrangler.