race gas revisited

[DezSled]

I just looked through the 14 lt-r450 pages and found 2 posts on race gas. And didn't find out the verdict.... one post said that Yoshi recommended it at 50/50 ratio. One post recommended use only non leaded race gas. And others have said forget it run premium (only 91 octane around here). Well I have been running it in the 250R forever so why not in the lt-r. Depending on supply either VP or F&L race gas are available so ... into the tank it goes 100% no dilution. Is there a risk of running it in the lt-r?

[AL Elks]

The only risk I see of running race gas right now (especially oxygenated race gas) is that there have been some individuals that have had the race gas break down the fuel filters and clog the injectors. With injectors you will also want to filter your fuel when you put it in. Just get some of the outerwears material and pour it through that while filling your tank and you'll be ok.

Of course race gas can actually slow you down also. The only time you really NEED race gas is if you go high compression.

There is no need for race fuel in the LTR. I have the PIM installed and my AFR right now is sitting at 12 which is rich. I plan on moving that closer to 13.1 - 13.3 soon.

[DezSled]

Right on Al for the info and enlightenment. Reminds me I need to get one of them filtered funnels too. Thanks

[ScooterBike]

I run 103 octane leaded racing gas. No problems yet, runs well. But I dont know if this gas is good or not for the engine.

[AL Elks]

There are many types of race gas. Most race gas you get out of the pump from gas stations will not harm your ATV in any way. When you go to Oxygenated race fuel you may run into some problems. It is highly corrosive and there in lies the problem. Your exhaust port will develop crystals on it and become VERY rough. You also have to drain all the fuel from the carb/system at the end of the day so it doesn't corrode your fuel system. It's best to then run some other type of fuel through the system to clean it out thoroughly. I've been running Oxygenated race fuel in my Z for over a year now.

It really depends on the type of race fuel though as there are many types.

Check out this page:

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html

[DezSled]

Wow... 60 different blends of fuel. Now I'm really confused J/K great info on VP

Now why run oxygenated fuels? If theres problems with it ... wouldn't one want to stay away. Leaded has its benefits I know so thats what I buy.

[GPracer2500]

The advantage of oxygen fortified fuel is greater HP. The fuel itself carries a little bit of the all important oxygen needed for combustion rather than relying on intake air to provide all the oxygen.

[AL Elks]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
The advantage of oxygen fortified fuel is greater HP. The fuel itself carries a little bit of the all important oxygen needed for combustion rather than relying on intake air to provide all the oxygen.

EXACTLY. Also it's a step between running pump gas and Alcohol. He HP gains are EXCELLENT. If you don't mind the extra work you won't be sorry.

[Tri-valleyracin]

i dont have a ltr but i have a 300ex and a z400 and i run 91 with a octane booster so it brings it to 104 and i realy helps and it alot cheaper that race gas. the z400 has mods in the motor and runs like crap on regularte and premium but super its ok and the booster makes it run realy nice. my 300ex is stock motor but it is a race quad. it has its benifits of the booster but its not race gas but i helps if u want a cheap way to have a better fuel.

[AL Elks]

Originally posted by Tri-valleyracin
i dont have a ltr but i have a 300ex and a z400 and i run 91 with a octane booster so it brings it to 104 and i realy helps and it alot cheaper that race gas. the z400 has mods in the motor and runs like crap on regularte and premium but super its ok and the booster makes it run realy nice. my 300ex is stock motor but it is a race quad. it has its benifits of the booster but its not race gas but i helps if u want a cheap way to have a better fuel.

What brand of oxtane booster are you running?

[GPracer2500]

There's no way you're turning 91 octane fuel into 104 without dumping tetraethyl lead or huge quantaties of toluene into your tank.

When the bootle of an octane booster says it raises the octane by 6 "points"--or whatever--you must realize that those are not the same points you think they are. In that context 1 "point" = 0.1 octane (RON). So if you think your raising the octane by 13 octane points, you are actually raising it by 1.3 octane points. It's extremely hard to raise low octane fuel by more than 1 or 2 octane points without using lead or toluene.

[AL Elks]

That's exactly why I asked what type of additive he's using. :eek2:

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by AL Elks
That's exactly why I asked what type of additive he's using. :eek2:

Right. I knew that's what you where getting at...I just thought I'd spell it out for him.

Now that I think about it though, it might have been more fun to here him try and explain how he's tuning 91 into 104. :)

Tri-valleyracin: I'm not out to bust your balls--there's just some very common misconceptions about octane and octane booster.

[AL Elks]

Originally posted by GPracer2500

Now that I think about it though, it might have been more fun to here him try and explain how he's tuning 91 into 104. :)


Yep, That's what I wanted to see before I gave him the correct answer. Man they get a pretty penny for that stuff too. :D

[DezSled]

How much extra power are we talking about here? Are there any dyno sheets to show the gains? I'm not saying I don't believe what has been said ... I'm just curious - I could be buying the wrong race fuel presumably

[GPracer2500]

VP claims "...up to 6% more power..." for several of their oxygenated fuels when compared to nonoxygenated fuels. Take that for what it's worth.

My only direct experience was with NuTec oxygenated fuel on my old roadrace bike (this was over 5 years ago). On the dyno I saw a 3.8% increase using the oxygenated fuel. I think NuTec was one of the first commonly available oxygenated fuels. It was the rage around the track at the time. They may have gotten better in recent years [shrug]. And, 3.8% in that particular engine (650cc V-Twin, 3 valve heads) wouldn't necessarily translate into the same increase in todays 450s. Could be more, less, or the same....I don't know.

It's not snake oil though.

[z400clone]

Oxy fuels are easy to deal with on a carbed quad. You can simply jet up a few sizes or so and be good to go. For the LTR, you will have to build a map seperately for the oxy fuel and run it all the time on that map until you are ready to go back to non oxy. And, no one is sure what the oxy fuel will do to the FI system yet. Plus like Al said, you have the crystallization that later turns into pitting in the exhaust side of your head. Also, oxy fuels are VERY expensive. Unless you are hunting for the last bit of HP at any expense, I would stay away from oxy fuels and stick with standard race fuel. JMO.

[AL Elks]

Originally posted by z400clone
Oxy fuels are easy to deal with on a carbed quad. You can simply jet up a few sizes or so and be good to go. For the LTR, you will have to build a map seperately for the oxy fuel and run it all the time on that map until you are ready to go back to non oxy. And, no one is sure what the oxy fuel will do to the FI system yet. Plus like Al said, you have the crystallization that later turns into pitting in the exhaust side of your head. Also, oxy fuels are VERY expensive. Unless you are hunting for the last bit of HP at any expense, I would stay away from oxy fuels and stick with standard race fuel. JMO.

Ditto!

Oxy fuel runs $67 per 5 gallons in my neck of the woods.:eek:

[DezSled]

I won't complain about $300+ for a drum of 'regular' race gas again..... $13+ a gallon *Whew*