Stage 1 or Satge 2?

[curious george]

i was wondering what would be better for me i like to ride in sand pitts and fly down trails, right know when you accelarate on my quad it fells like you are getting ripped off the machine it has so much accelaration. i dont wont to lose that but more would not bother me, i was thinking stage 2 but will i lose low end to gain that mid range and top end power? i also dont wont to lose my auto decompression, the stage 1 lets you keep that i beliave.m what do you guys think?

[GPracer2500]

Stock piston? If so I'd stick with a stage one.

Hotcams' cams don't use the auto decompress. I *think* you can install the auto decomp on a hotcams cam by pulling the sprocket carrier off and pressing the auto decomp mechanism on--like the stock cam. It's a job for a machine shop.

But, why do you want the auto decompress? You don't need it.

Also, you may want to look at this: http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2316248#post2316248

[hotrodhonda400]

the new stage 1 had most of it's hit mid to top not all on the bottom like everyone thinks the OLD hot cam was for the bottom to mid and the new grind is basicly the old stage two, the new stage two is mid to top as well but more agressive and the stage three is a stroker cam, at least thats the info I got from hot cam. I noticed absolutly no loss in bottom end power but a big difference in mid to top gain , either way you like the gain you get. and why would you want the decompression mech. on there?? it's useless.

[quad9]

i have a stage 2 in min and it is all midrange, and top end
but i have the stock piston, when i put the 12:1 in it i will gain the bottom end back.
right now you have to ride it like a 2 stroke.

[CHEVYZ]

Personally, I would not get a Hotcam at all. I would just save my money and get something better. Out of the two that you are asking about, get the Stage 1. It will work better on a more "Stock" application IMO.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by CHEVYZ
Personally, I would not get a Hotcam at all. I would just save my money and get something better. Out of the two that you are asking about, get the Stage 1. It will work better on a more "Stock" application IMO.

Curious--what cams do you think are better and how are they better?

[CHEVYZ]

HRC cams, for one. They are much more expensive, but well worth it. I haven't tried a webcam before, but I would like to eventually. From what I have seen, Hotcams are built "Cheap." They perform decently, but are just not built to the spec that I would prefer.

Again, JMO, but I won't be using Hotcams again in any of my bikes.

[hotrodhonda400]

:confused: what have you seen go wrong with the hotcams that would make you think their cheap?

[CHEVYZ]

Hotcams are "Loud" and don't seem to be as smooth as the others that I have tried. When comparing the Hotcams with others, I feel that the craftsmanship just isn't there. They look cheap and poorly built. Personally, I haven't had anything go wrong with my bike that I can fully accuse my Hotcam of creating. I can say that I have used others before and much prefer them. Hotcams are by no means a terrible cam, but I think that there are better. Now, have YOU tried anything else and experienced it differently than myself.... or is this only a search for info based on my opinion? I know that the internet can sometimes be misleading with the kind of mood presented by a post.

[quad9]

i will agree that they are loud. but there is nothing wrong with the quality of the cam. everything fits just fine and works just fine.

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by CHEVYZ
Hotcams are "Loud" and don't seem to be as smooth as the others that I have tried. When comparing the Hotcams with others, I feel that the craftsmanship just isn't there. They look cheap and poorly built. Personally, I haven't had anything go wrong with my bike that I can fully accuse my Hotcam of creating. I can say that I have used others before and much prefer them. Hotcams are by no means a terrible cam, but I think that there are better. Now, have YOU tried anything else and experienced it differently than myself.... or is this only a search for info based on my opinion? I know that the internet can sometimes be misleading with the kind of mood presented by a post. man I 'm not pissed off I just ask a question SORRY if it sounded that way. But I was just worried that I put a piece of crap in my bike that is ALL. and as far as it being loud all my adjustments are in spec and its no luder than my stocker honest, maybe the earlier generation cams were made with loose tollerences.

[CHEVYZ]

No worries, I wasn't quite directing the post to you, nor was I attempting to post anything that can be viewed as insulting.

What type of cam are you running in it? I have only ran the stage 2 Hotcams before, but they sounded like bombs. I can only give opinions on what I have ran before... so other peoples opinions ARE going to vary, that is fine. Don't worry, you didn't buy trash. They aren't horrible cams, and your bike isn't going to self-destruct with one in it LOL, but I DO feel that there are better ones out there. Thinking something is better, does not necessarily imply that one is garbage.

[hotrodhonda400]

I'm running the stage 1 (new grind) and I was expecting it to tick like a bomb when I put it in and was really suprised, I just checked the clearances again after 3 tanks of gas from instalation and there was no change so I was happy. I would have loved to have the HRC BUT....a little too $$$ for me as I plan to get a 450r in the spring anyway.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by hotrodhonda400
...stage 1 (new grind)...

The only "new" and "old" grinds I was aware of concerned the stage 2. Can you elaborate on a "new" vs. "old" stage 1?? When did they change it? What are the specs of the "old" version? Etc.

[NCexRider]

Once again more HRC cam talk. Anyone know where to get one for a 400EX?

[quad9]

Originally posted by NCexRider
Once again more HRC cam talk. Anyone know where to get one for a 400EX?


from the dealer, but i was told they are like 400.00

[NCexRider]

More like $200, but they are out of production and the only way a dealer has one is if it's left over. Once again, anyone know where to get one?

[curious george]

i am getting a 426 big bore kit and just want to know which cam to get, i dont relly care i would not mind the top end mid range gain with stage 2 but i dont want to lose bottom end.

[hondaboy400ex55]

WELL IF UR GETTING THE 426 GET STAGE 2

[400exstud]

Originally posted by hondaboy400ex55
WELL IF UR GETTING THE 426 GET STAGE 2

Agreed.

[AR15 guy]

Any idea what kind of HP increase the stage 1 will give a stock 400ex with slip on , jet kit, and air filter?

[GPracer2500]

Cam is unknown. Remember, this is just one particular bike on one particular dyno operated by one particular dyno operator. But it does give a pretty good sense....these number jive pretty good with what I would expect.

http://www.geocities.com/gtthunder.geo/400cam.jpg
[graph courtesy of GT Thunder (http://www.gtthunder.com/)]

[AR15 guy]

Not a bad increase. I know that even with the same mods mine may not make the same power. Was just trying to get a general idea.

Right now my 400ex is the slowest of the group. Another friends 400ex is pretty fast. However he bought it used and has no idea whats done internally.

[Honda2000]

i went with the stage 2 hot cam and have never regretted it, even with the stock piston.

[AR15 guy]

How is the low end with the stage 2 and stock piston? What other mods have you done?

I still need some low end since we do lots and lots of trail riding.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by AR15 guy
How is the low end with the stage 2 and stock piston? What other mods have you done?

I still need some low end since we do lots and lots of trail riding.

Personally, I would not get a stage two cam with a stock compression piston. That combination should breath better at high RPM, but I'd be concerned about loosing some dynamic compression--that will hurt torque.

[AR15 guy]

I may just get the stage 1. I plan on rebuilding mine in the future but I think I ruled the 440 kit out for awhile. Seems like a lot of people have problems with them.

So I may just go with the 416 and higher compression piston.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by AR15 guy
...So I may just go with the 416 and higher compression piston.

If you do that then I would go with a Stg2.

[AR15 guy]

I'm not doing it for awhile tho. So I should probably stick with the stage 1.

I'm not tearing it apart until it dies.

[CHEVYZ]

Originally posted by AR15 guy
I may just get the stage 1. I plan on rebuilding mine in the future but I think I ruled the 440 kit out for awhile. Seems like a lot of people have problems with them.

So I may just go with the 416 and higher compression piston. The engine size isn't necessarily what makes the engine less durable. You have to build it to spec when regarding many things... a properly built 440 will far outlast a poorly built 416. However, because of factors such as the access heat genrated with the 440 as compared to the 416, you will almost certainly have to add more (Stronger) parts to get the 440 to hold as strongly. I know many people around here that have had good and bad luck with both.... remember to take your time and do it right (And if there is something that you THINK you should replace during the process, then do it... it will pay off down the road). Sorry, but all big bores can be a pain IMO.

On that note, regarding the cam, if you go with a bigger bore, and a higher compression piston especially, it would be a good idea to go with a Stage 2. That is what it was designed for as compared to the Stage 1. Now, if you are not going to do the above mentioned things and just want a little extra performance, go with the Stage 1. I would not choose the Stage 2... the cam was not designed for the application and will not work as well as a Stage 1 will.

If you plan on doing the rebuild when your engine dies... you are going to be waiting for a long time! I had 7 years on my stock engine, and it still ran BETTER than brand new 400EXs in my area.... you ever get a bike that just runs right? LOL, I tried to kill the thing and absolutely could not. If most other 400EXs are even similar to this, I am sure that you will waiting for a while. ;)

[MAD450r]

From what my dealer told me. They never made a 400ex specific hrc cam. You have to get the xr400's. Try service honda im pretty sure they still have them.

[jordan_m6]

Originally posted by AR15 guy
I may just get the stage 1. I plan on rebuilding mine in the future but I think I ruled the 440 kit out for awhile. Seems like a lot of people have problems with them.

So I may just go with the 416 and higher compression piston.

thats cause those people dont build them right, when you put a hi comp. bigbore in and everything else is left stock your just asking for problems.

[AR15 guy]

My motor does smoke just a tad when first started. Could be the valve seals.

Also everynow and then it will smoke when you let off.

But 3 of my friends have 400ex and all of ours do this. Something isn't right but it must be sort of common.

[400exrules]

Originally posted by CHEVYZ

If you plan on doing the rebuild when your engine dies... you are going to be waiting for a long time! I had 7 years on my stock engine, and it still ran BETTER than brand new 400EXs in my area.... you ever get a bike that just runs right? LOL, I tried to kill the thing and absolutely could not. If most other 400EXs are even similar to this, I am sure that you will waiting for a while. ;)

ya, you might as well just rebuild it now, cuz its not just going to die on its own

my motor is 7 years old. and believe me, i havent babied it.......and she still runs like new

i have a stage 1 cam in now with stock motor....and im about to go to a 10.8:1 416 JE piston, and i might switch to a stage 2 cam and a full exhaust (i have a slipon)