Need more power than a 440Kit . . . Get a 460 or 480?

[300EXGurl]

Okay, here's the deal. I have a 2000 440ex & I flat track. I don't have enough power all around to beat slightly modified to modified 450's & I don't plan to run in the Pro classes so they don't have a ton in there motors. I have too much money in this 400 to buy a 450R & start all over building a whole new bike besides the fact this bike's handling is awesome. It is setup perfect but I just don't have enough power to stay with the 450's. Right now I'm staying up with the 450's basically off of the handling of the bike but I get passed because they have more horse. I've seen several different kits but I don't know what to get into. I've seen the Hot Rod 460 Kit & how it's an advantage to you if you already have a 440 but in that kit what all do you have to do or get worked on if you've got the 440 kit already & FST has a 480 Kit I believe but I don't know much about it or if it holds up. I'd like to get more for the buck but I want something that wont cost me a fortune-something reasonable. If you have any input on these 2 kits or if you know of others let me know. It'd be to much help. Thanks.

[DEVINF450R]

not for sure but I have heard once you go over the 440 kit you have to go to a stroker kit and that is some big motor changes. I am not a mechanic but my brother is and he says that they are not something he wants to do to his 426. you may be able to get enuff for your 440 parted out and sold on ebay to set up an 05 450r (left overs are goin cheap) for the type of racing you do.

[250r4life]

i hate to say it, but it just doesnt pay off taking underdogs and supping them up to beat the 450s... youre much better off in the long run, to sell your 400ex, or lt 400, or whatever, and just getting the new 450...


for one, youre gunna drop a ton on money into your bike, just to get it to where the 450 is stock

2- all tricked out, youre not going to have near the reliability that the stock 450 has, and it sucks sitting in camp with a broken bike

3- youre going to have to continue to drop a bunch of money into your bike to keep it running, so that sucks in additon to the down time

4- youre gunna have to run race gas and that adds up if you ride alot...

and all this just to keep up and not even smoke the new 450s...


the new 450s just start so much father ahead of the 400s... to be honest, this is the realization i have come to with my 250r, and my 250r is leaps and bounds ahead of the 400ex... so im at the point to where im not dropping any more money into my R, and am just waiting till i can get a YFZ and at that time i will actually throw my stock jug back on my bike and keep it as a 2nd bike...

[ohsobad_chevy]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i hate to say it, but it just doesnt pay off taking underdogs and supping them up to beat the 450s... youre much better off in the long run, to sell your 400ex, or lt 400, or whatever, and just getting the new 450...


for one, youre gunna drop a ton on money into your bike, just to get it to where the 450 is stock

2- all tricked out, youre not going to have near the reliability that the stock 450 has, and it sucks sitting in camp with a broken bike

3- youre going to have to continue to drop a bunch of money into your bike to keep it running, so that sucks in additon to the down time

4- youre gunna have to run race gas and that adds up if you ride alot...

and all this just to keep up and not even smoke the new 450s...


the new 450s just start so much father ahead of the 400s... to be honest, this is the realization i have come to with my 250r, and my 250r is leaps and bounds ahead of the 400ex... so im at the point to where im not dropping any more money into my R, and am just waiting till i can get a YFZ and at that time i will actually throw my stock jug back on my bike and keep it as a 2nd bike...

Good point man... I hear a lot of people buying the 400ex and then wondering why they can't beat the 450's and then they want to know how to hop it up, so that it can run with the 450's. People- You are better off buying the 450 and then going from there. They are about 1000 more than the 400ex, you get that in suspension alone, not to mention the extra ponies.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i hate to say it, but it just doesnt pay off taking underdogs and supping them up to beat the 450s... youre much better off in the long run, to sell your 400ex, or lt 400, or whatever, and just getting the new 450...


for one, youre gunna drop a ton on money into your bike, just to get it to where the 450 is stock

2- all tricked out, youre not going to have near the reliability that the stock 450 has, and it sucks sitting in camp with a broken bike

3- youre going to have to continue to drop a bunch of money into your bike to keep it running, so that sucks in additon to the down time

4- youre gunna have to run race gas and that adds up if you ride alot...

and all this just to keep up and not even smoke the new 450s...


the new 450s just start so much father ahead of the 400s... to be honest, this is the realization i have come to with my 250r, and my 250r is leaps and bounds ahead of the 400ex... so im at the point to where im not dropping any more money into my R, and am just waiting till i can get a YFZ and at that time i will actually throw my stock jug back on my bike and keep it as a 2nd bike...

I think she understands that. But she doesn't have the money to build a 450 up to racing standards. she may be able to buy a new one, but then she has to do it up.

the 460 kit should give you enough power to beat 'em depending on how badly you're getting beat. if you can keep in the top ten then you probably can beat 'em with a 460. i wouldn't recommend going bigger than that. and stroking isn't that hard. u need to install a longer rod and a cylinder spacer ( i think that's what it's called. correct me if i'm wrong).

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by krt400ex
I think she understands that. But she doesn't have the money to build a 450 up to racing standards. she may be able to buy a new one, but then she has to do it up.

the 460 kit should give you enough power to beat 'em depending on how badly you're getting beat. if you can keep in the top ten then you probably can beat 'em with a 460. i wouldn't recommend going bigger than that. and stroking isn't that hard. u need to install a longer rod and a cylinder spacer ( i think that's what it's called. correct me if i'm wrong).
A stroker setup is a whole new crank.

[400exstud]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
A stroker setup is a whole new crank.

Yup. The only thing that a longer rod and a spacer would do is make your piston farther from the crank.

A stroker crank moved the position of where the rod connects with the crank out farther from the center. This creates a larger circumference; thus the rod carries the piston farther up and down.

[300EXGurl]

Ya I understand what all ya'lls sayin but I don't have the money for it. I've been racin like a year & so I'm kinda just getting REAL into it. So I'm not up in the A or pro classes. I'm 15 & so I'm in the B & C classes. I'm only getting beat on the big tracks & theres only 2 bigger tracks-the others I'm beating due to handling. See I don't have enough rear percentage to get good enough bite off the corners to pull away fast enough or to pass someone. I weigh like 110-116 pounds & it's hard to get the rear weight. I need a -2 swingarm-I think that'd tuck the bike up & give me more rear. Also I think if I jack the front end up a bit w/ messin' w/ the shocks it should add some more rear. But the thing is I'm not lookin' to get a 450R til I got this bike all figured out & until I'm losing just on the extra horse they have. I'm gonna keep this bike until next spring. The indoor tracks I'll be right w/ them cuz' the guy I got it from was beatin' em all w/ it so the indoor it's up there. & I know what you guys are sayin about how stupid it is to try to soup up mine to beat 450's but I got quite a bit of money in this one & none of the parts are interchangable so that's where the problem would be if I did that now. So I'm gonna stick to this until it slows me down.But if you've got any ways you think I could get more rear % than let me know. Thought about hookin up some weights on the grab bar too. Let me know.

[400exstud]

The -2 swing arm is a good idea. I am not sure how much I would monkey around with the front suspension, though, because you said that you have it spot-on.

[Chris S.]

I had a 500 stroker motor from FST in my 400ex and I would have to say it was very close to my 450r before the hrc kit was installed. The 500 FST kit isn't that expensive but dealing with FST can be difficult from what I have heard, hard to contact the main problem. Other than that that motor was great and if I would have expiermented more with changing sprockets, who knows it may have even been faster than it was. You can hop up a 400ex pretty good. I also hear GT Thunder has a 450 kit for the EX and that it performs pretty well. If I were modifying a 400ex motor again I would call GT Thunder and get more info what they have to offer with that 450 upgrade. However, I spent more money on 2 ex engines than I did my whole 450r and I am happier with the 450r.

[250r4life]

i think its hilarious when people say they dont have the money to buy a new quad, but want to sup it up a bunch... thats part of the reason i said buy a new quad- in the long haul it will end up being cheaper... if you sell your quad now, and go and finance a new one, it will end up being cheaper... cuz you will be just as fast if not faster with a stock 450, and you wont have to be replacing and fixing things all the tiem liek you will with a 460 or 480... and you wont have to run straight race gas... lol- if stuctured properly it ends up being cheaper... all the money youve put into it is a sunk cost... cant get it back... so dont go commiting even more into it...

[DieselBoy]

NO! NO! NO!

Just buy a 450.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by 250r4life
i think its hilarious when people say they dont have the money to buy a new quad, but want to sup it up a bunch... thats part of the reason i said buy a new quad- in the long haul it will end up being cheaper... if you sell your quad now, and go and finance a new one, it will end up being cheaper... cuz you will be just as fast if not faster with a stock 450, and you wont have to be replacing and fixing things all the tiem liek you will with a 460 or 480... and you wont have to run straight race gas... lol- if stuctured properly it ends up being cheaper... all the money youve put into it is a sunk cost... cant get it back... so dont go commiting even more into it...

no, a big bore kit is only 1k-1.5k. a 450r is 6.5kplus the cost of hopping it up. you do the math.

[DieselBoy]

no need to buy brand new if you cant afford it, buy an-almost new for MUCH CHEAPER. IT'S NOT WORTH PUTTING THAT KIND OF MONEY INTO AN OLD DOG.

[DEVINF450R]

I repeat. part out the 400ex w/ all your hop-up parts and sell it on e-bay. then buy a used 450r that is in like new condition or get a left over '05. the difference between the two will be around 1 to 1.5k. the 400's are obsolete in the race business these days. not totally but you catch my drift.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by krt400ex
no, a big bore kit is only 1k-1.5k. a 450r is 6.5kplus the cost of hopping it up. you do the math.


are you some kind of freakin idiot?!?

[250r4life]

know what the hell youre talking about before you say stupid ****

[DEVINF450R]

HAHA. dude chill out first thing. and I said the difference. you can buy a modded 450r on ebay for about 4-5k. you can part out and sell a 400ex for about 4k so if you want to do math here it is... used 450r 5k
- sold 400ex 4k
___________________
= 1k


now that we all no how to do 1st grade math it is about the same
if you sell what you have and then buy a like new used 450. how does that make me an idiot???

[DEVINF450R]

haha wait 250r4life. sorry thought it was a response to me....i didn't see the quote you had...

[250r4life]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
HAHA. dude chill out first thing. and I said the difference. you can buy a modded 450r on ebay for about 4-5k. you can part out and sell a 400ex for about 4k so if you want to do math here it is... used 450r 5k
- sold 400ex 4k
___________________
= 1k


now that we all no how to do 1st grade math it is about the same
if you sell what you have and then buy a like new used 450. how does that make me an idiot???

i read your post below this one... no- youre dead on- right on the same page with me... i just was too upset/frustrated with krt400ex to do the math for him... so yah, if its 1k difference, and the bigger bore is 1k-1.5k more, then youre actually saving money.... and if not, if you consider the upkeep and what not and all that it takes to keep a 480ex to keep running, the 450 will before too long become cheaper...

krt400ex- im a senior accounting major at ASU and am a mortgage broker- i do this stuff all day long... this is what i do...

[DEVINF450R]

yeah for 500 bucks (CDI, cam, piston) you can make that thing scream. then get a used pipe

[300EXGurl]

Okay guys I understand what you're saying but I bought this bike for $3200 from a friend of mine (it was already all souped up w/ the parts & everything) so the only money I have spent on this bike is for tires. I got the bike for a steal-it's in great condition. So I don't have any money in the bike & if you skipped over the part where I told you I was "15". So I can't ride a 450R til I'm 16 due to the rules, you all know em'. I think I might just get the -2 swingarm & wait til I can get a 450R. So the idea of parting mine & selling the bike is useless cuz' I can't race it.

[GPracer2500]

Why can't you ride a 450r at age 15? Is that a rule imposed by your racing organization?? Seems strange that a 400 is ok but a 450 is not??

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Why can't you ride a 450r at age 15? Is that a rule imposed by your racing organization?? Seems strange that a 400 is ok but a 450 is not??

i agree

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by 300EXGurl
Okay guys I understand what you're saying but I bought this bike for $3200 from a friend of mine (it was already all souped up w/ the parts & everything) so the only money I have spent on this bike is for tires. I got the bike for a steal-it's in great condition. So I don't have any money in the bike & if you skipped over the part where I told you I was "15". So I can't ride a 450R til I'm 16 due to the rules, you all know em'. I think I might just get the -2 swingarm & wait til I can get a 450R. So the idea of parting mine & selling the bike is useless cuz' I can't race it.

why get a -2 swingarm? with the power your bike is already putting out, a shorter swingarm will noly make your bike wheelie easier. and it wiill make it less stabil at higher speeds. leave the swinarm alone. if your machine has aftermarket a-arms and an aftermarket axle AND HUBS then just get wheelspacers and widen it so u can corner faster. you'll be able to make up more time that way. the reason i say that u have to have stronger hubs, is because if they are not stronger than stock then u will bend them with wheel spacers.

[440_Turtle]

Have you considered swapping in a CRF or 450R engine? Add a Radiator and mounts and your in business

[300EXGurl]

Well, the race promoter allows me to ride the 440 because he knows I can ride & that my parents approve it too. I went from a 300 to a 440 & I haven't had this bike for a year yet & I'd like to be winning w/ it b4 I get a 450R & by that time I should be 16.
-krt400ex-I have wheel spacers but not stronger hubs ( Instead of spending money on stronger hubs I could buy make handling or power gains to the bike. ) Also I only weigh like 113 pounds & getting a shorter swingarm would give me more rear % & I wouldn't spin. I spin off the start & coming off the corners. & I can mess w/ the suspension & the swaybar so it wont wheelie. Plus I don't think it would anyway due to hardly any weight back there.
-440_Turtle- No I haven't considered that but that's alot of trouble for the time I'm gonna have this bike. Prolly til' April. Thanks tho.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by 300EXGurl
Well, the race promoter allows me to ride the 440 because he knows I can ride & that my parents approve it too. I went from a 300 to a 440 & I haven't had this bike for a year yet & I'd like to be winning w/ it b4 I get a 450R & by that time I should be 16.
-krt400ex-I have wheel spacers but not stronger hubs ( Instead of spending money on stronger hubs I could buy make handling or power gains to the bike. ) Also I only weigh like 113 pounds & getting a shorter swingarm would give me more rear % & I wouldn't spin. I spin off the start & coming off the corners. & I can mess w/ the suspension & the swaybar so it wont wheelie. Plus I don't think it would anyway due to hardly any weight back there.
-440_Turtle- No I haven't considered that but that's alot of trouble for the time I'm gonna have this bike. Prolly til' April. Thanks tho.


u'd only need stronger rear hubs. since the front end moves independantly there is les stress, unlike the rear end. if u only do flat track then u'd be fine with stock hubs since u wouldn't be doing any jumping.

[300EXGurl]

Yea the biggest jump is like maybe 3 feet & usually theres only like 2 jumps so I don't have to worry bout that. I don't have an aftermarket axle & I want one & I was gonna wait until I had enough money to buy an axle & a swingarm so I could switch em' out @ the same time you know. I'd like to get a G-Force axle but Rocky Mountain ATV is Out Of Stock until like July 15th & I don't think anyone one else carries them. & i figured if Rocky Mountain was out then IF anybody else had them they'd be out too but i dont know. & I've thought about used axles but I could buy a new one for the price of the used one.

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by 300EXGurl
Yea the biggest jump is like maybe 3 feet & usually theres only like 2 jumps so I don't have to worry bout that. I don't have an aftermarket axle & I want one & I was gonna wait until I had enough money to buy an axle & a swingarm so I could switch em' out @ the same time you know. I'd like to get a G-Force axle but Rocky Mountain ATV is Out Of Stock until like July 15th & I don't think anyone one else carries them. & i figured if Rocky Mountain was out then IF anybody else had them they'd be out too but i dont know. & I've thought about used axles but I could buy a new one for the price of the used one.


g-force is the rocky mtn "walmart brand" if u get what i mean, so i dought that anybody else carries them. i don't know how good they are, but dirt whells just built a project yfz and they used one and said that it worked great. for flat tracking that will prolly work just fine. i wouldn't get a used axle because if it was bent and restraightened then it will be weaker. u never can tell if a person is being honest or not.