Im stumped ???

[culookn]

Here'swhat I have going on. Just installed a Je 13:1 piston, hrc and tc exhaust on my 450r. My jetting is correct , and I know I timed the engire correctly. Now when I go to start it up the head pipe starts smoking as well as smoke coming out of the air filter. I know its not oil burning b/c its white, but it doesnt smell like antifreeze burning either. Is it running to hot or is it something else??? The smoke that comes from the head pipe and air filter doesnt smell like the valves are burning up either. However it seems like its running way to hott. Any help is appreciated.

[450 Racer R]

did you adjust your clearances after installing the new cam? with the bigger cam you might need smaller shims. maybe the valves aren't closing all the way.

[Bomby650]

1. is it running at all? if its running and running right.. thurs no possible way u can have smoke comming outta the air filter.. unless 1. its outta time.. if.. its jus smoking u could of have a ring busted.. or maybeeeeee the head gasket.. i cant really tell u without more info.. is it running.. dose the timing seem right? more info please and ill try to help

[culookn]

yes it runs and idels fine. just after a few seconds of running the head pipe starts to smoke as well as white smoke come from the air filter. i still cant figure this out. the valves seem to be tight as well. after i installed the piston i made sure all of the timing marks were lines up.

[MR.BIG]

Are you sure its just not the metal getting hot since everything is new.

[Bomby650]

Ok how long have u ran it.. it could jus be becuz it was new
MR.BIG "Are you sure its just not the metal getting hot since everything is new."

he is very much right.. thur shouldnt be no possible way.. smoke will come OUT of the aircleaner.. while its running right.. it should be taking in air.. if it was blowing it out.. it would not be running right..

[Hammer trx450r]

Originally posted by culookn
yes it runs and idels fine. just after a few seconds of running the head pipe starts to smoke as well as white smoke come from the air filter. i still cant figure this out. the valves seem to be tight as well. after i installed the piston i made sure all of the timing marks were lines up.

What is your jetting at? pilot, main?

[Bomby650]

Will jetting cause smoke to come OUT of the aircleaner? this really inst making sence to me :( i wish i could help out more..

[MR.BIG]

I wouldn't think so. YOur main jet should be around a 185-190 depending what year you have 04-05 and what carb you are running.

[culookn]

i thought the tc should be jetted around 165 main, hrc on 3rd clip. the smoke that comes out from the air cleaner doesnt shoot out like it is being forced. if it was timed wrong would it still run or run like crap

[Hammer trx450r]

Sounds like you might have broke a ring or something

[culookn]

if the valves were to tight could that be the source of the problem? i think my exhaust valves were at 007. shouldnt they be at .011 +/- .001

[jhoppa]

Do a compression test... wet and dry... that should tell you if it is a ring...

Don't know what year, but I thought the 04 and 05 had a breather that comes into the airbox??? If so, is the smoke coming from that breather? Water in the crankcase?

[Chango]

Sounds like you trimmed the oil ring...Mine did the same thing when the oil ring had a little tweek we trimmed it and smoked like a old 250

[culookn]

Originally posted by jhoppa
Do a compression test... wet and dry... that should tell you if it is a ring...

Don't know what year, but I thought the 04 and 05 had a breather that comes into the airbox??? If so, is the smoke coming from that breather? Water in the crankcase?

i thought about that so i drained the oil. no signs of water being in the oil. if there was, would it smoke out of the pipe too?

just took it all back apart. no broken rings or signs of scoreing in the cylinder. just double checking myself but the top rings faces the intake, second faces exhaust. one oil rings faces to the right and the other to the left. any other ideas guys? if i let the timing chain get slack can it come off the bottom gear and be off timing to the crank?

I never shimmed the valves for the new cam, could that be a problem?

[Bomby650]

okie.. if u let it get off time.. it wouldnt idel right.. and it would be miss fireing.. but.. what might of happened is.. maybe a head casket.. its very possible.. u hafta be burning water some where.. u wouldnt notice if it was a little bit it dont take much water to cause a motor to smoke.. if its white smoke thats the only thing i can think of.. maybe a headgasket.. cheak that.. is it running hott or ne thing..? and how long have u ran it like this

[Bomby650]

rember u gotta have them torqued to a spec.. and do it EVENLY all u needa do is pinch tha head gasket.. im sorry ive never dealed with a TRX ima DS rider.. so.. i cant help much jus giving info that i know...

[Bomby650]

sorry another idea jus came to mind.. how long has it been sitting.. i hadda buddy.. that got water in his gas.. THAT WILL CAUSE IT TO SMOKE from the air filter AND pipe..

[culookn]

just put fresh gas in it.i could have sworn i torqued everything to spec but ill check everything once i put it back together. im thinking maybe it got moisture in the crankcase when i had it apart over a few nights. but when i drained the oil it came out dark with no signs of water...

[culookn]

Also, inside the cylinder I noticed that the kicker side of the cylinder had some dark marks up and down it. Like a ring was rubbing or something. Could this cause the smoking if a ring was rubbing?

[MR.BIG]

Did you check your ring endgap?

[culookn]

When i get home from work today Im going to take the rings off the piston and put them back into the cylinder to check my gaps again. Just so Im not crazy what did you guys use for a gaps on the upper, 2nd, and oil rings.

[red2004 TRX450R]

Originally posted by culookn


I never shimmed the valves for the new cam, could that be a problem?

I would check them!!!

[culookn]

any other help or ideas?

[tltcracing]

I dont know if the valve shimming would cause the smoking but I would deffinetally check the clearence and re shim if nessasary.

[pitcrew14]

when you installed the piston did you hone the cylinder?

[450 Racer R]

I thought everyone agreed on not honing the cylinder since it's got that coating. I forget what it's called.

[dunebuggie66]

when you install a new piston/rings you need to hone the cylinder a little so the rings will seat properly!

[Chango]

Nikasil

[Hammer trx450r]

You dont need to hone, you need to shim the valves after new cam. And i'd like to see a pic of the black marks you speek of.

[culookn]

it looks like the sides of the pistons re rubbing against the cylinder. not the part with the rings but the area rigth below that

[Hammer trx450r]

I need pics dude sorry.

[TheBlasterMan]

maybee the smoke is coming from the crank case breather tube????

[MD450r]

Im with blasterman on the intake smoke. To much blow by the rings will cause a oily mist to come from the breather.

If the rings are gapped properly and piston is good, you should check the piston to cylinder clearance to make sure it is in spec. If the piston to cylinder clearance is good you should hone the cylinder, then clean the cylinder with oil and recheck the clearance. Honeing will allow the new rings to seat to the cylinder.

If the valves were too tight and being held open the motor would not want to start without pull starting the quad, atleast until the motor was warm.

If the smoke on the new exhaust system is coming off of the metal surface, then it may be some oil residue. If the smoke is coming out of the outlet of the pipe then the motor may be burning oil from piston ring blow by or have leaking valve seals or worn valve guides.

Just so we can understand where the smoke is coming from at the air filter. Move the breather tube off of the air filter with the motor running and see if the smoke is coming out of the tube.

Hopefully some of this can help.

Aaron

[culookn]

Originally posted by MD450r
Im with blasterman on the intake smoke. To much blow by the rings will cause a oily mist to come from the breather.

If the rings are gapped properly and piston is good, you should check the piston to cylinder clearance to make sure it is in spec. If the piston to cylinder clearance is good you should hone the cylinder, then clean the cylinder with oil and recheck the clearance. Honeing will allow the new rings to seat to the cylinder.

If the valves were too tight and being held open the motor would not want to start without pull starting the quad, atleast until the motor was warm.

If the smoke on the new exhaust system is coming off of the metal surface, then it may be some oil residue. If the smoke is coming out of the outlet of the pipe then the motor may be burning oil from piston ring blow by or have leaking valve seals or worn valve guides.

Just so we can understand where the smoke is coming from at the air filter. Move the breather tube off of the air filter with the motor running and see if the smoke is coming out of the tube.

Hopefully some of this can help.

Aaron

thats some of the best advice ive received yet. thanks for all of the help. i never knew to check the piston to cylinder clearence. what would cause it to be out of spec?

[culookn]

ok heres another thought. say if everything was to spec. but there was wayyy to much oil in the engine, could that make it have blow by or even make it smoke out of the air vent tube.

[Hammer trx450r]

Definatly

[culookn]

Well i ran it today for about an half hour and the smokeing pretty much stopped. However when I let the engine start to bog it smokes a little. But it looks like black smoke.

[MD450r]

To your question about what would cause the piston to cylinder clearance to be out of spec. Normal wear and tear on the nakasil coating or even excessive wear from dust getting by the air filter. Or even the possibility the manufacurer messed up on the piston.

I agree, if it is overfilled with oil it could cause the problems you described. Ive ridden with other people on 450rs before that were overfilled and they smoke constantly.

With the black smoke it may be a little rich, but atleast if it is black its gonna be fuel and not oil.

You can try and tell what the smoke smells like. If you know what a motor smells like when it is burning oil you can determine what it is.

Aaron