if man was made on the 7th day

[One_Bad_400]

i have a question... if God made man on the 7th day... then where were dinasors placed on this time line... because diasors were millions of years before man they say?!?!?!

[Warnerade]

stem cell research

good point... alot of things from the bible dont make sense.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by GingerKid
good point... alot of things from the bible dont make sense.


like the no sex until marriage part!

Originally posted by Ralph
like the no sex until marriage part!

I usally hate posts saying just lol. But....lol :D

Originally posted by Ralph
like the no sex until marriage part!

yeah expeshily that part:devil:

[juanki]

God said that, ok, now if you mix the theory of the big bang, that says that the world was made over 4,500 millions years ago or something like that, then you have a parting point.

if you divide that time in 7 parts you get an amount of millions of years, then you can assume that the man was formed some 642 millions ago. and now the question, at what time was the baby born? acordin to info, man was crated some 1.8 million years ago. so that would be very late at nigth close to midnigth.

dinosaurs were extinc 65 million years ago

there you go.

[nosliw]

basically, from what i understand...

before the flood ( you know, the one that killed everyone but noah,ark,animals,ect ) the people on earth were brilliant. they used 100% of their brains ( we use 10% ) and genetic engineering was huge. these beasts were developed, that we call dinosaurs.

then they died in the flood with the rest of 'em.

that's what a pastor friend of mine said. he went into a lot clearer detail and such, but i just summed it up.

one of the harder things about Christianity to believe.....but what the **** do we know?

[400exrules]

my old science teacher said reptiles never stop growing (which is true i think), so dinosaurs were formed from reptiles that lived to be 200+ years old, back in the day before the flood when people lived alot longer.....so since the reptiles lived longer they just kept growing and turned into dinosaurs:huh .....i guess...:ermm:

[juanki]

dinosaurs and men didnt live in the same time. reptiles as we know are an evolution of them,

as for

" they used 100% of their brains ( we use 10% ) and genetic engineering was huge. these beasts were developed, that we call dinosaurs "

that is insane. dinos died 65 mya, an men has only two.

[nickmelll]

i have a belly button

[One_Bad_400]

i dont get what ya'll are saying?

God made All Animals that live on the earth and the human being on the same day..(the 6th day)

__________________________________________________ __
Day 1: creation of light, and the separation of light from darkness

Day 2: creation of sky, and the separation of the waters above the sky and the waters below

Day 3: creation of earth, and the separation of earth from the waters below; creation of vegetation and the separation of different kinds of plants (each after its kind)

Day 4: creation of the sun, moon, and stars to separate day and night, and to order seasons

Day 5: creation of non-land animals and the separation of different kinds of animals; the command to be fruitful and multiply

Day 6: creation of land animals and the separation of different kinds of animals; creation of human beings, command to be fruitful and multiply, given dominion over the earth

Day 7: God rests and blesses the seventh day

__________________________________________________ __

So it says that the 6th day God created land animals and human beings...?!?!

[nosliw]

Originally posted by juanki
dinosaurs and men didnt live in the same time. reptiles as we know are an evolution of them,

as for

" they used 100% of their brains ( we use 10% ) and genetic engineering was huge. these beasts were developed, that we call dinosaurs "

that is insane. dinos died 65 mya, an men has only two.


well you can't take what i said and apply the evolutionary "65 millions years ago" thing to it. apples to oranges. if you believe what the bible says than you know that God didn't create this stuff that long ago.

[clutt225]

Makes a great story.

[juanki]

i belive in God, i'm roman catholic, what i tried to explain is that

1. the bible says that evething happend day to day. i belive that. but what i dont understand is that a day for God is a day for us humans.
sometime we gat the bible too literaly, some times the words mean diferent things.

2.- if you mix the big bang theory to what the bible says, you can get a ralationship of what a day is in terms of what scientis have dicovered. this can help us to undestand a little bit more.

3.- for what i undestood " the people on earth were brilliant, they used 100% of their brains ( we use 10% ) and genetic engineering was huge. these beasts were developed, that we call dinosaurs " , NOSLIW, you are saying that we, humans crated dinosaurs? if that's so, its insane. if not i apologize and please explain. science tell us that dinos lived until 65 mya, humans have 2my in the earth.

and One_Bad_400, yes God crated animals and humans in the same day, again i just try to figure out what a day means in terms of God.

i do belive in God and i do belive in science. is just a way to try to understand God ways ( i think this is how the phrese is used )

[fatkid400]

Dont ask ?'s just believe. Thats what faith is all about.

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by juanki
iand One_Bad_400, yes God crated animals and humans in the same day, again i just try to figure out what a day means in terms of God.

well i know what you mean by taking it literal... but... He says on the 7th day He Rest... so every 7th day you rest for the Holy Day... so i'm sitting here thinking He means our days

[nosliw]

Originally posted by fatkid400
Dont ask ?'s just believe. Thats what faith is all about.


yeah, but being able to question your faith and still hang on to it is even better.

i dont know about the dinosaur thing for sure. but your leaning to far towards to evolutionist side if you think there was ANYTHING 65 MILLION years ago. that's fine if you think that, but we are trying to understand what the Bible says about it, right?

why is it crazy that man created dinosaurs? deliberate genetic mutation isn't crazy, just look at the farming industry.

if we can clone a sheep now, using 10% of our wal-mart and mcdonald soaked brains, think of what THEY could have done.

[nosliw]

one more thing, theistic evolution has one MAJOR flaw, it kills the sabbath.

Can god himself microwave a burrito so hot, he himself cannot eat it?

[400exrules]

Originally posted by the gangsta
Can god himself microwave a burrito so hot, he himself cannot eat it?

he could eat it

[nosliw]

LMAO!!!

i'm watching simpsons as we speak

[miller821]

Originally posted by 400exrules
my old science teacher said reptiles never stop growing (which is true i think), so dinosaurs were formed from reptiles that lived to be 200+ years old, back in the day before the flood when people lived alot longer.....so since the reptiles lived longer they just kept growing and turned into dinosaurs:huh .....i guess...:ermm:
Yep, I agree.

[juanki]

its hard to undestand the bible, i ll go to my house and rad a book about it, ill tell you tomorrow

nosliw

" why is it crazy that man created dinosaurs? deliberate genetic mutation isn't crazy, just look at the farming industry. "

2000 years ago ther wasnt electricity, non of the tecnological advance that we have today.

today there has been a lot of research and crap, today it is ot crasy, but 2000 years ago?

[nosliw]

how do we know there was electricity back then? all that **** was washed away and destroyed in the flood.

however, none of us know. the bible doesn't have a set answer on it. one of the many things that not even a theology major could answer.

just speculating here, but this idea is the one i find most reasonable (not a conviction, i would change my mind if i found a better explanaition)

[ZSK]

Focused strictly on what a "day" is. For us on earth is it just over 24 hours. One day every 4 years (leap year) is used to adjust the extra time. That is the time it takes to make a single rotation of the earth. A revolution is one circut around the sun 365 days. No **** right? Venus rotates the opposite of Earth. The time it takes to make a single rotation is actually longer than a year, approximately 285 earth days. A single day on Venus lasts 285 earth days. A day is realitive to where you are in the universe, where your center of orbit is, it's all realitive.

Almost everybody will agree that heaven is not on earth, you look up to look to the heavens, at least I do. When you take into account the time differences, it is entirely possible that the 6th day, when God created man and animals, is hundreds of millions of earth years long. It goes along with the idea that our universe could be a single atom in the finger of god.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by 400exrules
my old science teacher said reptiles never stop growing (which is true i think), so dinosaurs were formed from reptiles that lived to be 200+ years old, back in the day before the flood when people lived alot longer.....so since the reptiles lived longer they just kept growing and turned into dinosaurs:huh .....i guess...:ermm: so what the hell was a teradactle...a giant wasp?

[honda350r]

Originally posted by fatkid400
Dont ask ?'s just believe. Thats what faith is all about.

That is BS !! Why even live if you are not alowed to think??

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by honda350r
That is BS !! Why even live if you are not alowed to think?? becuase thats what the book tells us to do.

Why live your life based on nothing more than a good story?

[nosliw]

Originally posted by ZSK


Almost everybody will agree that heaven is not on earth, you look up to look to the heavens, at least I do. When you take into account the time differences, it is entirely possible that the 6th day, when God created man and animals, is hundreds of millions of earth years long. It goes along with the idea that our universe could be a single atom in the finger of god.

so you're saying that the days 1-7 in God creation, weren't consistent with one another? i don't think so. what does the word day mean when he's going to be changing the meaning?

again, saying that the "days" weren't what we conceive days to be (millions of years) is the essence of theistic evolution. you got to explain the sabbath, and you can't with that way of thinking.

[Iliketogofast]

My grandma doesn't believe in dinosaurs because they weren't mentioned in the bible... Lol.

I think that too many people look at the bible as an enyclopedia; something that is completely right with absolutely no fallacy. The bible is more of a guide on moral and ethics - a sort of warmup course to show people how they should live their lives.

I won't get into whether it's contents are true or false for the sake of saving an argument, but I really don't think it's healthy to look to the bible for every single situation you are faced with, like my grandmother does (I love her, but the dinosaur thing was a little ridiculous...)

Just think about it: In Jerusalem people are dying because of religion and the bible. Like I said, I won't get into it's credibility, but I don't think that the people who wrote it intended it to be taken so literally.

[ZSK]

Originally posted by nosliw
so you're saying that the days 1-7 in God creation, weren't consistent with one another? i don't think so. what does the word day mean when he's going to be changing the meaning?

again, saying that the "days" weren't what we conceive days to be (millions of years) is the essence of theistic evolution. you got to explain the sabbath, and you can't with that way of thinking.

The days themselves could be consistant, each could be 65 million years long or each could actually be what a day is to us. The sabbath is god's day of rest, every 7th day for us is sunday. It could be a symbolic day not an actual day. What is a second to you? What can you accomplish in a second? What if a second of our time is a decade to god. Much of religion is speculation and belief of what is said to be true or not true.

[honduh440]

what if nobody had ever read the bible or their was no such thing as religion or anything of that nature and one day you picked up the bible and read it. do you think you could finish it without throwing it in the trash?

[400exrules]

maybe things were left unanswered or unclear in the bible to test our faith...:confused:

[honduh440]

maybe some guy in 1832 made the bible to laugh at you for thinking that

[250R-Dee]

Of course early man used 100% of their brains!! But did you know his brain was 110% smaller than the brain of present day man. :D

Sorry, I couldn't resist!:chinese:

[400exrules]

Originally posted by TRX250RJapan
Of course early man used 100% of their brains!! But did you know his brain was 110% smaller than the brain of present day man. :D

Sorry, I couldn't resist!:chinese:


you mean....90%.....otherwise we would have a -10% brain lol

[250R-Dee]

Nope, I meant to say 110% as an exaggeration:D :D

It is easy to use a brain to it's fullest capacity when it is physically smaller. Early man's cranial cavity was much smaller than the brain of today's erect walking ape named homo sapien :p.

Wake up, find food, don't get killed by other neanderthals while trying to find food, go to sleep. Yep, that was a full brain :rolleyes: :D

[Fasteryfz]

Maybe god is still resting. If man was created 2 mil years ago on the sixth day then we are still currently on the seventh (in god years). That's the only way that theory would work. I don't think the bible lets us know what he did on the 8th day so we can assume we have'nt made to that point yet.


Now where's my prize?

[Alberta_Qaudin]

Alot of my family is religious and when i was a kid i went to church and all that, but as i got older my mom felt it was better for me to find my own beliefs and well i chose not to belive anything written in a book by a MAN, to be "god's word"

I understand why people look at religion the way they do but there is too much it doesnt explain and too much that with science the way it is now can be disproved. its a book, a story someone wrote, with charectors, that someone else took to far and read into as reality.

Or then again maybe juring the time of the Dinosours God was kickin it in heaven on a vaction, and all of a sudden BANG dinosours are dead and he figures he better get back to yee old drawing board. then once he had created man he thought, wow i better get an author to write my book about how great i am, and knock up some virgin while she sleeps so i can have a kid to do my work for me

[juanki]

ok good morning fellas, went to my home and read the book i told you about, it named " the new lions handbook of the bible " lion publishing, oxford england. i have it in spanish. this book is like a guide for the bible, with the research of many teologist, priest etc. it just explain the bible, but it doesnt matter if you are catholic, evangelist, lutheran, or whatever. i got it from a friend that is protestant, so. if you read the bible, then you can read the book and explain words and meanings, back then it was a little bit differetn,people lived til 150 years old, men had many wifes, etc. this is a reason why there is war in the middle east, jews and arabs are decendent from abraham, both, just diferent wifes. belive me it just a matter of pride, well i see it that way. but anyway.

the book explains that the first part of the genesis is wrote in a form so we can undestand it, then it fowords very quik to the flood, it says that the flood happend in mesopotamia, where the black sea is, now its belive by scientist that the flood happend somwhere 7000 years b.C., because of a melt of ice the sea water rised and add the rain and it was a bad scenery, that why the black sea is salted, supposely before it was sweet watter. the bible is not the only book that talk about the flod, there are books of the mesopotamic peolpe that described this part of the history of the earth.

then the genesis goes to the time when abraham was in egypt an that is placed somewhat 2500 years b.C. from then on the time line is more specific.

i write this to try to undertand something that really is allpowerfull and divine. its hard, but it makes it easy.

[NorCalRacer]

Wow, I had no idea people took the bible so literally. I grew up going to church (episcopal) and have a couple of ministers in my family. That being said, the bible does not create answers for every specific question, yet a general guide for those who choose to believe in it. Taking it to literally is comparable to a mental illness. For years christians fought and killed over what "the father, son and holy spirit" meant. If you were wrong, it was believed you went to hell. At one point the church went through a schism and was appointed a french and italian pope at the same times. The french pope was appointed by threat of force and the italian pope was appointed because the council was in Italy. Each pope ex-communicated the followers of the other and the entire church was ex-communicated and going to hell. Everyone who disagreed with the church or king... you guessed it, hell.
I won't even mention the inquisition or crusades:rolleyes: The bible did not come from a divine source, but a violent conquering one. The frist acceptance of christianity was because it was believed the symbol of the cross brought victory in battle, until then, christians were opressed. God didn't personally write it.... People seeking to further their CAUSE did.
Dinosaurs were here before man, not sure what day and time though..... I can tell you they were not genetically engineered by a race of super intelligent, genetic engineering christians that were wiped away in a flood:D

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by honduh440
what if nobody had ever read the bible or their was no such thing as religion or anything of that nature and one day you picked up the bible and read it. do you think you could finish it without throwing it in the trash?

I think that if there was no such thing, the world population would be much higher ;)

If noone ever picked up a Bible or a Quaran or even a damned Jehova's Witness pamphlet, war would be next to nonexistent.

I'm not bashing religious folks, but just think about it. If there was no such thing as religion, terrorists would never have attacked the WTC, right?

Tons of the war and fighting going on in the middle east wouldn't be heard of. I just think the world would be a lot more of a peaceful place without these silly books. It's just like the song by John Lenin, "Imagine".

[Iliketogofast]

Here's another thing to think about and then I'm done.

Okay, not too long ago, I posed this question to a group of several Christians. I asked them how the people who wrote the bible knew what to write, and they told me they were given a message from God; instructions, so to speak, on writing this book.

They say that in these times, people were pure and free of sin, and could communicate with God freely. They said that he doesn't communicate with people these days because others would call them crazy.

Well, when God was explaining to them all of these things, why didn't he include a better story of how people came around, and why didn't he include information about dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals?

The answer is simple. The people who wrote this book didn't talk to God. These people knew nothing of dinosaurs so they weren't included in this book. Most of the stories in the book are either fiction or altered truth

Now this is a fact: Noone in their sane mind believes the Adam and Eve story. How do you believe that a man could be created from the rib of a woman, or a talking snake? It was just made up. Besides, fossil dating tells us that human beings weren't really around for most of the time that dinosaurs existed. They were here before modern humans. Does this mean that Adam and Eve were monkeys, and that the section about the dinosaurs was simply left out?

I'd also like to say that I'm glad noone is bashing me. It's been a long time since I've been able to write about what I thought on this subject without getting *****ed at.

[honduh440]

that wasnt what i was trying to get at even though everything you said i agree with

[miller821]

Ok, Iliketogofast, I agree with some of that, but I believe in the Adam and Eve... I'm not bashing you or nothing, but if you don't believe in that, what do you believe in how we got here? Just a question, and i'm not trying to bash you at all.

[juanki]

every people that lived before had their own belives, like romans had many gods, egypcians had the sun like god, aztecs and mayans had diferent belives and worship many gods also, oriental people, man a dont know, and every one of them had their own story of how men was created. judaism was the first one to center everything in one God, so you can belive in the one that you have faith. at the end is faith is wath is all about, if you have faith in God, he will be there.
i do think that God speak to us, but we are def for many diferent reasons. in those days people in the middle east, were the bible comes from, the jews were a mess, not getting into detail, and a few ones werent all that messed up, and they were the ones that spoke with God, and tried to save them all.

adam and eve, well, that is just faith, and i belive that it happend

[spent21]

well, i grew up in church. i have my beliefs that are based on faith, however, i don't take the bible literally. the bible was written by prophets, or apointed persons to help spread the word of God. so far so good. the bible says that no man shall add or take away from the word of God or his name shall be wiped from the Book of Life. that is supposed to give credibility to the bible. (if you were translating or printing, and you left out or added something for any reason, you are no longer welcome in heaven and who would do that?) however, i believe that the bible HAS been manipulated and corrupted (how old is it?) for the benifit of whatever religious or political beliefs.
i grew up baptist and really began to question everything when i became really close to a Jehovah's Witness. there are holes in both sides.
i have no fear of death or dying. it's a part of life. while i don't push my luck (look both ways before crossing the street kids) i don't run and hide when there's a storm out. if God wants me, where can i run? i KNOW the difference between right and wrong. i may not always do what is right, and therein lies my sin.
the bible is a guide. a foggy history of times past. totally fiction? i think not. totally accurate? i think not. i do think it is open to personal interpretation and different groups interpret it in different ways.
i am a firm believer in thinking for yourself. i'm not a conformist sheep. gather facts and decide for yourself. if someone doesn't agree with me, that's their right. it's my right not to agree with any of you, but i'm not going to insult you, and i expect the same of those around me.

[spent21]

i AM an engineer and have had Boyle's Law beaten into my skull, so i find this funny. since we are looking at religion as a whole, and on a personal level, i thought this was somewhat fitting:


The following is an actual question given on a
>University of Washington chemistry mid term. The
>answer by one student was "so profound" that the
>professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet,
>
>which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of
>enjoying it as well.
>
>Bonus Question: Is "Hell" exothermic (gives off heat)
>or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students
>wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas
>cools off when it expands and heats up when it is
>compressed) or some variant.
>
>One student, however, wrote the following:
>
>First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is
>changing in time. So we need to know the rate that
>souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are
>leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a
>soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no
>souls are leaving.
>
>As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at
>the different religions that exist in the world today.
>Some of these religions state that if you are not a
>member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since
>there are more than one of these religions and since
>people do not belong to more than one religion, we can
>project that all souls go to Hell.
>
>With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect
>the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.
>Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in
>Hell because Boyle's law states that in order for
>the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same,
>the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as
>souls are added.
>
> This gives two possibilities:
> 1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the
>rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature
>and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell
>breaks loose.
>
> 2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the
>increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and
>pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
>
>So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me
>by Teresa Morrison during my freshman year, "...that
>it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with
>you," and take into account the fact that I still
>have not succeeded in having sexual relations with
>her, then #2 cannot be true,
>And thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will
>not freeze.
>
> The student received the only "A" given

[juanki]

in fact, there are many diferent bibles, for us roman chatolics, we have books that our pope and other people of faith choose according the guidelines of their belives, the greek ortodox have the same books, plus some more. and so on.
so its a matter of what you belive and have faith in it. and yes, i think the bible is a book that is a guide of how a person should act in sertain circunstances and try to be as close as the life that the Son of God lived.

[Craig02]

A great source to find some of the answers people are searching for is http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

In short, we are to take the Bible literally. Creation was in 6 days and the earth is only about 6000 years old. Think about it - as trees, grass, and other vegitation grow and die they decompose and turn into what we call top soil. If the earth really was millions of years old, we would have an abundance of top soil and we could see this in rock layers such as the grand canyon. It is hard to wrap our minds around all of the truths in the Bible, but we have to remember that our minds are finite and God's mind is infinite. We will never understand everything, but through faith and unbiased research we can understand more.

[Iliketogofast]

Okay, first I want to say to Ride Hard that I appreciate your grace in this. Normally if I said something like that about someone's beleifs, they would have attacked. Your a good guy.

Anyways, before I start I want you all to know that by no means am I a religious historian.... I'm just a writer. Feel free to do you research, look it up, or whatever and post it on here if I'm wrong cause you aren't gonna make me mad. If you don't like what I'm saying give me something that proves me wrong. I'm open to all opinions and I understand that the majority of you probably don't believe the same things that I do.

I also want to let you know that I don't think I can, nor am I trying to change your beliefs on this subject. It's hard to uproot ideas that have been reinforced for years and years since early childhood unless you start early and provide concrete proof, which I cannot provide. I can only give you my ideas.

Okay, now down to buisiness.

We know that when Adam and Eve were around, noone else was. They were the first. That means that there is noone who knows whether they are real or not except the being that created them, God. Now, Adam and Eve had sex and produced children. Muslim children. In order to procreate, these children will have had to inbreed with either their siblings or their parents. Either way you cut it, that's gross. So let's assume it was their siblings and pause right there. I don't know if there is anything about inbreeding within the bible, but if there is that's the first contradiction in it. Although it was obviously God's will for them to procreate, it is later in the book pronounced a sin (And I don't know if that's in there or not, I never read it because it's poorly written and I can't stand that... You would think God would have given them just a little bit of skill).

Okay, so there that is. Now we have the other obvious issue, which is of ethnicity. If the orginal humans were Muslim, where did the African Americans, the Caucasions, and the Japanese with their slanted eyes (I apologize for the stereotype) come about? That is especially true for the Japanese, who live on an island and especially some of the native islanders that are still being discovered today. They couldn't be Muslims that traveled to the island of Japan and reproduced, because they have a completely different culture and language. Wouldn't they have kept Hebrew as their language when they went there (perhaps with a dialect change, but still at least somewhat similar to Hebrew)?

Okay, so there you go. That, along with the dinosaur thing, is why I don't believe in that particular story. I don't believe in Noah's Ark, either. These parts of the bible, to me at least, seem like they were intended as a story to pass on to children. Maybe that's what they were, but they somehow got changed to an acceptable belief among adults. I don't know, I wasn't there when any of it happened.

But, like I said, you can believe what you want. I'm just putting these ideas out there for you to read and maybe you will see things differently, but probably not, and that's okay. You aren't hurting anyone by believing these things, and it really doesn't make you look foolish in my eyes, because it's what most people believe.

Okay, now on to what I believe, if you care to read about it that is.

I believe in a God. I don't think that god is in the same image as humans, that is I don't really think he looks like us. If you think about it, we're just a really smart animal. If we had just a little less intellegence we would be just as filthy and stupid as the rest of the animals on this planet. Why would he want to look like us? I don't beleive that God created us and this planet for us to worship him. In fact, I think that is completely ridiculous. He sees and knows all. He doesn't need us to tell him that he is great. I really don't even think he would care if we didn't acknowlege him at all. I also don't think that his consciousness is the same as ours. I think that he is everywhere at the same time, sort of. That's just what makes sense to me. I just have a hard time believing there is absolutley no god. Everything on this Earth and in this universe works too copesthetically for there to be no intelligent creator; no designer or guardian.

I'm unsure about heaven and hell. I definitely don't believe in their traditional forms. Maybe we will be born again as another human or an animal, but it is just as likely that we would go to a paradise. It is just as likely again that we will die and just not know... That we will die and that is it, buried under the ground and never know another thing after death. No consciousness. That is uncomfortable to think about, so most don't take that on as a belief but it is very possible.

I don't believe in divine intervention. I think that our designer and guardian simply watches us. There are quite a few things that make it seem like there are miracles and that god does give us his strenght or his hand to help us sometimes, but I think it is all coincidental.

That's just what I think, and I know I'm not completely right. I know the same as anyone else about this: nothing.

What Craig just said gives me another good argument. If everything in the bible is said literally (as in all of it is true), that would mean that this planet is only 6000 years old(that really isn't a very long time), therefore the dinosaur fossils and all of the dating we can perform, all of this scientific discovery, is simply false. Fake. A fraud.

I just don't believe that, and I don't think very many other people do either. (But once again, it's fine for Craig to) It's sort of ridiculous to say that the Earth is only a few thousand years old because if it weren't there would be too much topsoil when there are so many other facts that prove it is much, much older.

Now, if you are very persistent you could say that God put dinosaur fossils on the Earth to give us doubt (like a test of faith). If that's true, doesn't that kind of make him a kid with a magnifying glass, and us a bunch of ants? Sort of like an experiment to sort out the good from the bad, huh?

I believe there is also a story in the bible where a man has lots of bad things happen to him as a test of his faith. He believes in God throughout his misfortune. God smites his wife, children and wipes out all of his property just to see if he is faithful. Would an all knowing and all loving God really torture his child in such a way?

[motox450]

I have to agree that the bible was written by man with man's agenda involved. Thats why there is an update to it Old testament vs new. Christianaty was formed or suppose to be formed 2000 or so years ago. Now based on the info at hand that humans have been around for well a lot longer than that. One would have to think (where the hell was god for the first million years of human evolution) did he just up and deside after all that time that 2000 years ago was the best time to intervene?? I believe there is something out there a lot smarter than what we are. I think it is foolish to believe that we are the only living creatures that exist in this entire universe. Now I am not saying there are little green men walking around somewhere. But if we can be survive on earth and every star we see is a sun just like ours then shouldn't there be one out there that could have a planet similar to ours orbiting around it? Now this is soley my opinion. So take it for what its worth.

[honda350r]

Nice :macho

[Iliketogofast]

If there's anybody who read every word of what I posted let me hear about it :D

I gotta keep my writing skills polished if I wanna be competitive in college, you know ;) What do you think?

[honduh440]

honestly i couldnt agree with you more untill you stated your beliefs that are just as weird as every normal persons

[400 SS EX]

Basically there is going to be a Hell of alot of people going to Hell and only when I die will I find out what is going on. I go to a Catholic school and because of certain events that have happened I am borderline Athiest, just because it's so much easier to say I dont really give a ****. Our priest/superintendent has filed a lawsuit against a kid in our school because he has an upside cross on his MYspace account !!!!! Kids are now getting expelled from school for having a myspace account, and the parish mailed letters to the community informing them of the 'negativity' and just plain ' badness' that myspace is. I witnessed the priest call our Valedictorian a slut because she had a picture of her dancing on a picnic table at a class party. Priest saying that is wrong! I could go on for days about the myspace fiasco in my community at the moment but its off the subject. And our religion teacher is a everything is beautiful because go made it kind of person, personally she needs to get a grip on reality and face the fact that not everythign is good!! Oh by the way the priest's name is Father Kevin Fausz in Perryville, MO at ST. Vincent de Paul Parish ( he really gets mad when you mention his name on the internet ) -- hahaha

[Atkins]

There is nothing more humorous then creationists attempting to fit dinosaurs in with their 7 day theory.

[Punk'd]

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c004.html

Maybe the bones arnt as old as we think they are?

[Craig02]

Originally posted by Punk'd
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c004.html

Maybe the bones arnt as old as we think they are?


You got it. Here is an explaination for Carbon 14 dating.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/carbon_dating.asp

[Iliketogofast]

I really don't see a site like that as an accurate source of scientific information. I think I think that if all of those people took all of that time to write all of that, they might be insecure about what they believe. I sure am, and that's probably a deep down explanation to why I wrote all of that. I get pretty nervous about what I think very often. With so many other people living a devout religious life, sometimes I wonder whether I'm really right.

Originally posted by GingerKid
yeah expeshily that part:devil: rofl, expecially?

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by Atkins
There is nothing more humorous then creationists attempting to fit dinosaurs in with their 7 day theory.

It really is a joke. I had no idea that these people actually believed that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

"This means that the dinosaurs must have died after sin entered the world, not before, so dinosaur bones could not be millions of years old, because Adam lived only thousands of years ago."

I mean, I might be unsure about a lot of the stuff above, but I know this place isn't only 6,000 years old. I mean, they could be a little off with the carbon dating thing, but they aren't going to be that far off. That's millions and millions and millions of years that they are just wrong about, and I just don't see any possible explanation to that

I mean, I'm reading it trying to believe this stuff. I really am, and I just can't. It just looks like a joke to me.

[Iliketogofast]

One more and then I'm done...

"This means that even T. rex, before sin entered the world, ate only plants. Some people object to this by pointing to the big teeth that a large T. rex had, insisting they must have been used for attacking animals. However, just because an animal has big sharp teeth does not mean it eats meat. It just means it has big sharp teeth.46"

Okay, so if all animals ate plants what is the purpose of the stegosaurus' big spikes, the turtle's hard shell or even the skunk's ability to spray?

[juanki]

iliketogofast

i read all that you wrote, and its very well written, but...

when you said adam and eve had children, muslim children, i understand that you mean muslim like the religion. if thats so, muslim religion was created after jewish religion.
the 5 five books of the old testament are te basics of jewish religion, in there is says that God spoke to abraham and told him that his decendats were going to be a great nation and such, but abrahams wife coudnt have children, so the wife gives him the maid to have a child, then God tells to the wife that what she did was ok, but it was not what he ment, so God gave the wife a chance to hava a kid, at 90 years old or so. so now abraham has two kids, the first one, is gone with the maid and taking care by God, this is were muslim religion is born. and the other kid continues with abraham and jewish religion. then Jesus is born, in jewish belifs, and cristianity is born.

so jews, arabs (muslims) and cristians belive in the same God.

as for ethnicity, there were many many people before this hapend, so i belive man was created before that and spread all over the earth and developed and crated graet civilizations. like i posted before, thera are studies that tell men has about 2 my in earth, developing and adjusting to its enviroment.

for the flood, like i posted before, there are scientistic research wit carbon 14 and that, that said it happend like 7000 years ago, and not only ion the bible is written, ther are other religion books that talk about that, i think it happend, but it happend in one region of earth, not all earth was flooded, (i'm assuming this), as for noas ark, i belive it happend also, we need to post ourselves back in that time, they thougth that earth was plane. so fuigure that out.

what i posted mixing the big bang and the 7 days is just a way to understand, or try to undesrtand what the genesis says.

[PeeWee21]

Wow, talk about un-informed people! lol The word "dinosaur" did'nt come out until the early 1800's so there would be no mention of "dinosaur" in the Bible....but, Dragon is mentioned several times. Look in the book of Jobe and read how God defines "Behemoth". Alot of peeps compare it to an elephant or hippo but you tell me where an elephant with a tale as big as a cedar is! The T-Rex was a "Scavenger", modern science has proven that the way it's teeth were inset into it's jawbone that if it would have latched onto another dinosaur that it would have probably ripped all of it's teeth out because.....there was very little root to keep them in the jaw.

Science has also EXTENSIVELY deliberated of whether the was a "Water Canopy" that surrounded the earth, they say that's how the palm trees are found in Antarctica. Now with that said, the Bible descibes a "firmament of water" surrounding the earth which is....a water canopy...imagine that! Back then while man lived under that "water canopy" all of the Sun's UV,X-Rays and such could not PENETRATE that canopy, i know some of you are thinking ' x-rays ', yep, the sun provides them and we get hit with them. Read a science book and you'll see. Also the oxygen level would have been triple to quadruple what it is to day. Does anyone here know what a "Hyperbarric Chamber " is? It's a chamber that they put you that increase the oxygen level in the air 3 times that of outside air. They're using it to treat Ahlzimers(sp), Cerebral Palsey, Autism and it's showing EXCELLENT results. There are numerous sports teams that use them to promote faster healing after injury's.....imagine that, with a water canopy around the earth we would have the same conditions. Guess what else, you have less sickness, disease, healthier bodies, healthier animals, healthier plantlife. O.k., since reptiles NEVER quit growing and that's a proven fact and with the healthy conditions of yesteryear...it IS possible for animals to grow to enormous sizes...along with man also. They find bones ALL the time of people 10 12 feet tall!!

What's with "Pre-History"? History is...well....history is it not? How can there be a pre-history to history? Answer that for me.

Evolution CANNOT be reproduced, so therefore it can only be speculated on. Therefore, it is a "religion" just like christianity. It can't be reproduced, you either believe (faith) or you don't. I myself believe in the devince creator.

Carbon 14 dating is a THEORY!!!! It has never been proven to be a FACT!!! They miss as many guestimates on the ages of things as they get remotely close.

This is a good part here....does anyone know what "color" the dominate gene is? For those of you that don't know....black is the dominate gene. Science has PROVEN that the "white" gene is not at all dominate, you CANNOT take a caucasion coulpe and produce black offspring...period, but...black people can produce white offspring and they do it in MASSIVE numbers!

Here's to all the evolutionists out there.....when have you seen a dog produce something other than...well...a dog? When was the last time you see an Ape have a human baby? If we are still "Evolving" why are we born "Healthy " and then die? Would we not "Adapt" to our surroundings and live forever? Last but not leat the best of all.......

Science has proven that our bodies reproduce ALL, not some or few but ALL of our cells every 7 years. Can some one explain why we die? Did anyone ever think that we were not SUPPOSED to???

[NorCalRacer]

Hilarious:devil: :devil: :devil:

[juanki]

Originally posted by NorCalRacer
Hilarious:devil: :devil: :devil:

[Iliketogofast]

I meant Muslim as in middle eastern people. People of a tan color.

First I want to tell you that evolution doesn't mean that an ape gives direct birth to a human out of nowhere. It means that over time, slight mutations add up. Now keep in mind I'm talking about a LOT of damned time here. It couldn't happen over night. I think there is some truth to evolution... I believe that over a very long period of time a species will begin to adapt to it's environment.

And the guy above gave a lot of answers if you could scavenge it from his murderous typing skills (sorry ;)); But there is one more thing I want to hear from him. What are your ideas on how people got to Japan and the Phillipine Islands in such a short period of time?

I also think that someone should be able to calculate the possibility of the human race existing for only 6000 years by taking current population and comparing it to growth rate over the years. If anyone could find some statistics on that, it would be a nice contribution to the thread.

[juanki]

Originally posted by Iliketogofast
I meant Muslim as in middle eastern people. People of a tan color.

ok, i was wrong.

at the end of things, doestn matter what you belive, but you have to have faith in what you belive.

[Fasteryfz]

So many opinions, so little time! I wonder if people living on remote islands that never got the chance to hear about the one god we are supposed to believe in just automatically went to hell?

Many of these tribes worshiped many gods and the bible clearly says that is a sin. So these poor guys go to hell by default! Just because they don't have access to the bible.

Give me a break!

I think if you live your life right, treat everyone with respect, give to the needy when you can, and basically just have good clean fun while your here then you deserve a spot in heaven if there is one. If I go to hell when I die then god's rules suck, and burning in hell for eternity seems a little harsh, LOL!

[PeeWee21]

Study that subject in the Bible Fasteryfz and you'll find that anyone that "lacks ANY knowledge of God is'nt subject to hell", it's just for the people that know about God and choose not to follow him.;)

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by Fasteryfz
So many opinions, so little time! I wonder if people living on remote islands that never got the chance to hear about the one god we are supposed to believe in just automatically went to hell?

Many of these tribes worshiped many gods and the bible clearly says that is a sin. So these poor guys go to hell by default! Just because they don't have access to the bible.

Give me a break!

I think if you live your life right, treat everyone with respect, give to the needy when you can, and basically just have good clean fun while your here then you deserve a spot in heaven if there is one. If I go to hell when I die then god's rules suck, and burning in hell for eternity seems a little harsh, LOL!

This is exactly what I think. If God is similar to the God described by Chrstians and similar religions, he is very forgiving and loves us as his children.

If he is our God, I think all he wants us to do is live the lives that he gave us here to the fullest extent that we can, and not to interfere with other's quality of life while we're at it. If I was God, that's what I'd want; for my creations to be able to enjoy the lives that I gave them and to behave intelligently not because they were afraid I would send them to hell, but just because they enjoy it.

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Study that subject in the Bible Fasteryfz and you'll find that anyone that "lacks ANY knowledge of God is'nt subject to hell", it's just for the people that know about God and choose not to follow him.;)

By that line of thinking christian missionaries are evil, they should all stop spreading word of jesus, burn all the bibles and we should just forget the whole christianity thing ever happened and everyone will go to heaven because no one will no about the bible and we all get in by default lol.

[Fasteryfz]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
By that line of thinking christian missionaries are evil, they should all stop spreading word of jesus, burn all the bibles and we should just forget the whole christianity thing ever happened and everyone will go to heaven because no one will no about the bible and we all get in by default lol.


See! I knew there was a back door to all of this mumbo jumbo. Pismo Local just gave us all the answer on how to get there without even trying, and why wouldn't it work? I mean the bible says those that don't know about it go to heaven right?

There are a so many contradicting things like this in the bible it's not even funny.

[PeeWee21]

See, there's what everyone fails to see. Give me an HONEST check of all cultures, races, you name it and ALL of them have a reference to God in them. It requires alot of searching but those of us that HAVE spent that time searching knows these things. There's no loopholes fellas, either you believe or you don't. I know you think the Bible contradicts itself. To the naked eye it does. If you just read it and take any scripture as truth and true meaning with out studying it out, well, you've already been decieved.

[miller821]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
By that line of thinking christian missionaries are evil, they should all stop spreading word of jesus, burn all the bibles and we should just forget the whole christianity thing ever happened and everyone will go to heaven because no one will no about the bible and we all get in by default lol.
Ya but you already know about it, and it would be your own fault because you can't just burn it and expect God to forgive you:ermm:

[juanki]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iliketogofast
[B]

And the guy above gave a lot of answers if you could scavenge it from his murderous typing skills (sorry ;));

if you ment me, i'll be happy to see yours skill in spanish. talking english and writting english its very different. but thats other subject.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iliketogofast
[B]

But there is one more thing I want to hear from him. What are your ideas on how people got to Japan and the Phillipine Islands in such a short period of time?

walking.

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by ride hard man
Ya but you already know about it, and it would be your own fault because you can't just burn it and expect God to forgive you:ermm:

I'll sacrifice myself for the good of humanity.:cool:
God will realise how pious my intentions are and save me.

[Fasteryfz]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
See, there's what everyone fails to see. Give me an HONEST check of all cultures, races, you name it and ALL of them have a reference to God in them. It requires alot of searching but those of us that HAVE spent that time searching knows these things. There's no loopholes fellas, either you believe or you don't. I know you think the Bible contradicts itself. To the naked eye it does. If you just read it and take any scripture as truth and true meaning with out studying it out, well, you've already been decieved.


If I take any scripture as truth and true meaning then I've already been decieved?

You sure you don't want to re-word that?

If the bible is the truth, then shouldn't it read like the truth? Or is it a lie containing the truth?

[PeeWee21]

In the Bible it says to read and STUDY to show yourself worthy. This is what happens when people just read the Bible and claim that they have "revelation" on the scriptures they read. If just reading it was all that was required we end up with 50 million different interpretations as we do now. God tells us in scripture that if we read and STUDY he will give us TRUE revelation of the word. Do i enjoy spending countless hours reading things i don't understand...not a bit! It's when i read it and STUDY it using concordances that give the Greek and Hebrew meaning that i understand what is meant in that scripture.

What gets me is how people can ACCEPT the fact that we came from a 1 celled amoeba but they can accept the fact that we were "created".

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Wow, talk about un-informed people! lol The word "dinosaur" did'nt come out until the early 1800's so there would be no mention of "dinosaur" in the Bible....but, Dragon is mentioned several times. Look in the book of Jobe and read how God defines "Behemoth". Alot of peeps compare it to an elephant or hippo but you tell me where an elephant with a tale as big as a cedar is! The T-Rex was a "Scavenger", modern science has proven that the way it's teeth were inset into it's jawbone that if it would have latched onto another dinosaur that it would have probably ripped all of it's teeth out because.....there was very little root to keep them in the jaw.

BINGO

People think the word DINOSAUR will be used in the bible.. lol

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c004.html


"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..."(Job 40:15-19)

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by juanki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iliketogofast
[B]

And the guy above gave a lot of answers if you could scavenge it from his murderous typing skills (sorry ;));

if you ment me, i'll be happy to see yours skill in spanish. talking english and writting english its very different. but thats other subject.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iliketogofast
[B]

But there is one more thing I want to hear from him. What are your ideas on how people got to Japan and the Phillipine Islands in such a short period of time?

walking.

They walked to the phillipines? Nice. I thought Jesus was the only one who could walk on water.

[Iliketogofast]

Let's talk about that Behemoth. Couldn't it be anything else? It could be an elephant, a hippo, anything.

And also, there were several different types of dinosaur. They came in all different sizes, most of them were small but there were several very large animals. Also, I am supposing that these behemoths were gathered onto the ark with the rest of the animals. How did they get them (or lions or tigers or any predatory animal) to behave?

[honda350r]

Religion isn't found on evidence,if it was that would be called science and no one would believe it !!

[bwamos]

I do not have enough faith to be an athiest.

Instead of relying on some wild eyed hypothesis with out any connecting evidence, I'd rather rely on historical evidence and thousands of manuscripts.

I do not have a blind faith. My faith is backed up by historical evidence.

What proof does an evolutionist have of Macro-evolution?
What proof does an atheist have of their version of the beginings of the universe?

The measured deceleration of the earths rotation run in reverse dictates that life as we know it could not have existed on earth 100 million years ago. Yet, it is beleived without question.

[Iliketogofast]

Got any links Bwamos? And please, no Christian websites. Those last links were full of so much crap! Who are their researchers, the kids from Bill Nye?

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Iliketogofast
Got any links Bwamos? And please, no Christian websites. Those last links were full of so much crap! Who are their researchers, the kids from Bill Nye?

I really don't like to use the internet as a basis for fact or qualified research. Thake this site as an example, if you didn't know better, you could easily leave beleiving that a Polaris Trailblazer can do 95mph in stock trim.

1st you need to build a verification of historical facts in the bible.

Archeological evidence of places that existed.
Historical evidence of people in the bible. Documents from Rome's first century historian Josephus would be an example.

Once you'ce confirmed the historical fabric of the scriptures you can then start digging in to the claims.

Once common claim would be the destruction of Jerusalem. Many historians testify to the fact that jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. The most obvuios claim being in the book of Mathew (chapter 24 I beleive). Previously, manuscript evidence (copies of the origional) only dated back to the 2nd centiry BC (100AD+). However, in the 1990's earlier manuscripts were recovered that can be dated to around 60AD. The original had to be written before the copy was made correct? ;) Therefore, the evidence points to the fact that the book of Mathew was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, and therefore it was a prophecy that was fufilled before that generation passed, just as written.

As far as the accuracy of what we have availible, vs the manusript evidence. It's amazingly accurate. They can take the 100's of manuscripts for a specific book. Compare them to each other, and to the oldest manuscripts and you have very few differences. Were talking typo's here not paragraphs.

Basicly, you need to build a case on the facts, not blind faith. Blind faith does noone any good.

If you want to do some research, you may want to get some books on appologetics. That's the big word that the writers use to say, "proving what we beleive". As with any subject though.. you have to be careful. There are good ones, and there are weirdo's... lol. Balance that with historical facts from a non-biased source and you have a good "start".

[GE4x4]

Well according to 2 Peter 3:8, a thousand years to us is like a day to God. So that would put a creative day to at least a 1000 years. But it could be longer. The bible also says after the sixth day was finished. he rested on the 7th day. And with no mention of a 8th day in the bible, it would be safe to say were still in the 7th day. Now going on Chronology from the bible, it shows humans have been on earth for around 6000 years +-. So with that in mind a creative day could be around 6000-7000 years. So the earth from the start would be around 42,000-49,000 years old.

[honda350r]

Originally posted by GE4x4
Well according to 2 Peter 3:8, a thousand years to us is like a day to God. So that would put a creative day to at least a 1000 years. But it could be longer. The bible also says after the sixth day was finished. he rested on the 7th day. And with no mention of a 8th day in the bible, it would be safe to say were still in the 7th day. Now going on Chronology from the bible, it shows humans have been on earth for around 6000 years +-. So with that in mind a creative day could be around 6000-7000 years. So the earth from the start would be around 42,000-49,000 years old.

Well I have Dinosaur tracks right down the street from my house that are over 200 million years old ..

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by honda350r
Well I have Dinosaur tracks right down the street from my house that are over 200 million years old ..

We've already had that argument. ;)

[Iliketogofast]

You know, this is one of the most intelligently debated threads on the net, anywhere. Most of the time when you get into stuff like this, it gets really messy really fast. We're at almost 90 posts now with no bloodshed in sight. It's almost like the internet has matured in this thread, but not in the rest! :D

[ATV Father]

The bible has way too many translation issues. We should all learn Hebrew and read the orginal :)

[PeeWee21]

Originally posted by ATV Father
The bible has way too many translation issues. We should all learn Hebrew and read the orginal :)

Amen!!! lol

[PeeWee21]

Originally posted by Iliketogofast
Let's talk about that Behemoth. Couldn't it be anything else? It could be an elephant, a hippo, anything.

And also, there were several different types of dinosaur. They came in all different sizes, most of them were small but there were several very large animals. Also, I am supposing that these behemoths were gathered onto the ark with the rest of the animals. How did they get them (or lions or tigers or any predatory animal) to behave?

Most people say that it was an elephant or hippo but the description of it's tail and a few other things that rules out it being a hippo or elephant. I believe it was a Brackiosaurus (sp).

As far as getting animals on the Ark, here is what i TRULY believe Noah did. First, he did'nt get very "species" of animal, example...a wolf, dog, are both "canines"...so he would have only got male and female of them....with that said....he probably got "baby" canines simply because they were smaller, healthier and could reproduce more in the're lifespan. I think he done this with "ALL" animals....he got ever kind.....canine, feline, reptile,yada yada, not every species of canine, feline, reptile, so forth and so on. I think because they were so small, and because they were very young...that's how they were behaved!

As for how people got to Japan and the Phillipines? Yes they walked.....and they did'nt walk on water! lol In the Bible it says it rained for 40 days and 40 nights......it also says "the fountains of the deep broke open spewing forth water", there are STILL fountains shoving water out of the ground on land AND in the ocean.

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by honda350r
That is BS !! Why even live if you are not alowed to think??

You can do what you want. God gave you free will, Walk the path less traveld or take the down elevator, Its completely up to us. What I was trying to say is, You cant look to the bible with scientific eyes, If you try " wisdom is the undoing of faith " They call all that God has done and all he will do "miracles" because there is no scientific answer to what you are seeing. Look at Gods work with your eyes and heart, Not your eyes and mind.
I'm sorry I just cant see how all of you and myself came from a stagnit pond and grew legs through evolution, Its easier and more comforting to think we are created by a truly loving God than frog pee on a lilly pad.

[PeeWee21]

I hate bumping an old thread but man...^^^^^ i totally agree!!!

[250R-Dee]

Put 20 people in a room and sit them along the wall.
Whisper something in the first person's ear and then go over the 20th person so you can hear the final bungling of your orginal commment. It will most likely be something totally different.

The bible was pretty much passed down by word of mouth for way too long. Even after it became a written compliation many still people had their own versions of it.

There is nothing wrong with having faith in some higher being because this belief in deities has been a part of human culture since the dawn of time. Narrow minded blind faith may sooth your conscious but in the end all it is doing is lining the pockets of some church offical. That brings me to another knit picking gripe!! Why does a preacher/religious figure need a $500k house, a Benzo and servants? Doesn't that seem to be going against the preachings of the bible?

Now on to the scientist - look up the word theory. Theories leave entirely too much room for doubt since they are nothing more than educated guesses. For many years it was theorized that the T-Rex was one of the meanest Dinos to room this Rock that will eventually because of civil strife related to religious intolerence, racial intolerance and just plain old stupidity (North Korea). Now they are saying the T-Rex was a wimpy scavenger who waited for larger Dinos to die or scooped up scraps left by larger predator dinos. Even when scientist produced supposed conclusive evidence it should be scrutinized because with technology evidence can be created.

Am I playing both sides of the battle? Nope, I'm just looking at both sides from the other side's perspective. I can add more but I will stop for now :D

[bwamos]

I do agree with you on the corrupt pastors, etc. That is why we are to be good stewards. We should be involved in our church. Not giving blindly, but require an accountability of all monies given to the church and how they are being used. Most churches will have financial meetings open to the entire church membership. If you do not hold the pastorate accountable, then corruption can set in. It is our job as christians to be good stewards of our money. This includes our tithes. We don't need to control every aspect of the money.. but we dang well need to make sure it's going toward God's work, and not a Bently. ;)


Originally posted by 250R-Dee
Put 20 people in a room and sit them along the wall.
Whisper something in the first person's ear and then go over the 20th person so you can hear the final bungling of your orginal commment. It will most likely be something totally different.

The bible was pretty much passed down by word of mouth for way too long. Even after it became a written compliation many still people had their own versions of it.

I will semi disagree with you on this point. This is a common misconception taught by the secular school systems to discredit the scriptures. As far as I'm aware, all of the books were scribed by the origional authors. None were by word of mouth. Some books that may cause some confusion are Genesis, Job, Song of Solomon, and Psalms. These are literary in nature and should be read in that sense. Books like Numbers are from historical documents such as a Census written by scribes which is what numbers is.

The fact is that there are thousands of manuscripts of the original scriptures. Not hundreds.. thousands. Many of which are within 30 years of the original writings, especially the New Testament writings.

A hypothetical example of what I am talking about here is the following:

Take an original manuscript of a book (Of Mice and Men for example). Have 20 people make a hand written copy. Then for each of those copies have another 20 people make a hand written copy of each. Destroy the first 20 copies.

You are left with 400 hand written copies. Each may very well and most likley will have errors in them.

However, if you meticiously compare those copies against each other you can quickly find the discrepancies (typo's, redifinitions, etc.) and choose the correct writings. Once you have meticiously compared the 400 copies against each other and combined them back into a single book compare that to the origional. I bet your copy will be very very close. There may still be some minor differences, typos, a couple word changes (using and instead of including, but the message of the book will be unchanged.

The scribes, and monks that copied the early manuscripts took painstaking efforts to keep as accurate as possible. As they copied a page.. they would count every letter to make sure they had the exact number of letters on the page, they would count in a certian number of letters to make sure that letter was the same on both copies, etc...

Take the King James version for example.. written long before many of the oldest manuscripts had been found. It is amazingly accurate. There are actually very few errors, most of which were very minor. A few places had some extra information added. But, even in those areas the message was never changed, only to help add clarity.

Many of the more modern versions of the Scriptures such as the NIV (New International Version) do not have these extrabiblical passages, and are true to the oldest manusrtipts known. When they are translated form the original Aramaic, Greek, or Hebrew some of the translation is lost. We don't have words for many of the greek words. For example, greeks have what is called the perfect tense. We do not have that.. and that word has to be described the best it can in english. This is where we get the different translations from. NIV, NKJV, NASB, NRSV etc.. The message is still the same, just the translations vary ever so slightly. Granted there are some versions out there that are skewed, and you need to be wary of those.

There is no other book in the world that has withstood more research, scruitny, or testing. It is also one of the most historically accurate books written.

It is important to read the stories of the Bible. Don't get too hung up on "verses". This is where Christians, and non-christians get off on the wrong path.

As an example.. you could read Luke 6:43
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit; for each tree is known by its own fruit."

Now, if you only read the verse.. and didn't read the whole story.. one could skew this into saying that a good person cannot sin, and a sinful person can not do good. This would be WRONG. This is not at all what the story is saying.

Read the story and you'll see what it is actually saying.

People get too involved in individual passages, and they miss the whole point.

Would you pick up the Lord of the Rings book, and read a single sentence in the middle of the book, and think that it was all inclusive? People are being missled by ignorance.

Read the stories. Learn the characters.
Matthew for example. Matthew's Hebrew birth name was Levi. It was common for the Jewish people to have both a Hebrew name and a Greek name. It is beleived that the name Matthew was given to Levi when he became a disciple. Matthew (Maththaios) means "gift of the lord", among other similar translations. Mathew was a jewish tax collector for Herod before he became a disciple, and is the same Levi mentioned in the books of Mark and Luke. Once you know some of the history of the characters their writing styles and messages make more sense. His former profession was very record keeping intensive, and it shows in his writing, with the tracing of Jesus' lineage, and many other places. Once you get a feeling for the character, his story will open up to you in a way it never could before.

[PeeWee21]

WOW!! Excellent post!!! We need a hand clap smily!! lol

[250R-Dee]

I treat the bible just like any other book! I do not have to believe the words just because somebody put them on paper and distributed copies!

As you bible thumpers would say: "that's my god given choice!" hahahahaha

Next!!:rolleyes:

You are telling me I have to think like you but I am saying I have my own brain and I am going formulate my own opinions regarding religion, evolution and life in general. Fanaticism is the biggest problem that plagues religion and is a huge turnoff for me.

Just in case you are wondering: yes, I have read the bible several times but not of my own desire. Having southern Baptist grandparents meant I had no choice but to learn something about the bible. Notice there wasn't a choice to not learn but there was a choice to believe or not the fables that are told.

I glanced down at your previous reply and I got a good laugh from your historical evidence remark! There is too much the bible does NOT explain, but that's ok because I understand. Having blind faith means you can ignore the issues that can not be explained by the holy book:blah: and as long as you can quote or misquote a scripture nothing else matters:D

[bwamos]

Originally posted by 250R-Dee
I treat the bible just like any other book! I do not have to believe the words just because somebody put them on paper and distributed copies![/b]

Nope you dont! :) I would reccomend you do historical research, etc before you make up your mind.

I very clearly state this in my post on the previous page. I too am a skeptic of all things, until I can prove it one way or the other for myself.

I do not beleive in blind faith. True faith is not blind, in my opinion.

This is the definition of faith that I live by.
Faith
1) Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

[quote]You are telling me I have to think like you but I am saying I have my own brain and I am going formulate my own opinions regarding religion, evolution and life in general. Fanaticism is the biggest problem that plagues religion and is a huge turnoff for me.

I never, anywhere, said you have to think like I do. It's your choice to make not my own. I am simply sharing my beleifs on the matter. I have no desire to force anything on anyone. That does not work, and it never will.


I glanced down at your previous reply and I got a good laugh from your historical evidence remark!

The historical accuracy is not solely my own opinion. Many non-christian historians will coroborate it's historical accuracy.


Having blind faith means you can ignore the issues that can not be explained by the holy book:blah: and as long as you can quote or misquote a scripture nothing else matters:D

As I have mentioned before.. I am against blind faith, and most definatly against quoting scriptures out of context with the story that is written. I feel that is pretty aparent in my previous posts I have made. If it was not, I appologize. And, I will state know that I do not live by blind faith, nor do I condone quoting scriptures out of context with the story the author was trying to tell.

I'm by no means perfect. I will never say I know it all, nor will I ever be able to say I do. I can only communicate my beleifs. I understand your side of the issue. I am also a very skeptical, and I am a very very stubborn person. No one is going to make me beleive something without me doing research an making my own mind up on something. I was raised RLDS. I am no longer RLDS, I dod my own research and can not support their doctorine (but that's a whole other can of worms, lol) I'm also not here to try to convert you. That's not my job. My job is to share the message in word, deed, and my everyday life, not ram it down your throat.

I hope this helps clarify my side. :D

[PeeWee21]

This is a discussion so do not turn it into a flamefest with rude and sarcastic remarks. Yes your entitled to your opinion as am i, i never degraded you for that opinion and neither did Bwamos, so don't take as i look down on you for your disbelief. With that said..

The biggest portion of the Bible requires faith, if it did'nt require that faith then everyone would believe it and we would'nt be discussing it right now. LOL No offense but "without" faith, then you did'nt learn anything from the bible, you can only recite what it says.

Evolution HAS NOT, WILL NOT and CAN NOT be reproduced so therefore it can only believed (faith) in. There is yet to be a scientist to prove it real. So Evolution is as much a religion as the Bible is because it requires that you "believe" in it.

As i stated before...if we descended from apes then why are apes not still evolving into humans? Why does a dog produce only dogs as offspring? Why does'nt it "evolve" into something else? Why is it so easy to belive we came from a a single celled organism lying on the ground than it is to believe that we were created? Why does our bodies reproduce all of it's cells every 7 years but we end up dying and "science" cannot explain why? How can you explain people being healed of illness that they've had all they're lives by the touch of a mans hand? Why does the big bang theory say we derived from nothing? It says "nothing" came together with "nothing" and formed "something" that exploded! And that something was smaller than a period at the end of this sentence. Now THAT is far fetched.

[Ralph]

Evelution makes a hell of alot more sense to me. Evelution can be very small changes.

Lets ASSUME humans started in africa. Scorching hot, skin pigments get darker and darker. or start dark, either way.

Now some of the humans are starting to move into asia and moving west. Their eyes get wider and open less. Could this have something to do with the sand winds of the desert, over the generations the eyes adapted to help fight off the sand? Did u notice they got lighter too? further up north not as hot.

That is just a POSSIBLE example of adapting/evolution. Yes, it hasnt been proven, well what proof do you need? but it makes alot more sense and it helps support our "Faith" in evelution because it makes sense.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Ralph
Evelution makes a hell of alot more sense to me. Evelution can be very small changes.

Lets ASSUME humans started in africa. Scorching hot, skin pigments get darker and darker. or start dark, either way.

Now some of the humans are starting to move into asia and moving west. Their eyes get wider and open less. Could this have something to do with the sand winds of the desert, over the generations the eyes adapted to help fight off the sand? Did u notice they got lighter too? further up north not as hot.

That is just a POSSIBLE example of adapting/evolution. Yes, it hasnt been proven, well what proof do you need? but it makes alot more sense and it helps support out "Faith" in evelution because it makes sense.

I also beleive in micro-evolution (aka adaptation). Scientific evidence proves it. Simple observation proves it. But, I do not beleive in Macro-Evolution (Darwinian theory). There is not a single piece of evidience in the fossil record to support macro-evolution. Darwin even admitided this himself. Between the time of Darwin and the present, they still have not found a single link, linking the changes in the fossil record. Darwins theory says that there should be 10's of thousands of variations of creatures between the subtypes. But, he nor any other archaeologist has found any of these since his day. Yet, millions beleive this theory, and it is taught as gospel in the school sytems.

All of the evidence points against the theory, but the naturalistic society can not accept anything other than random chance. If anything is obvious from scientific data. Nothing is random. Nothing. Every effect has a cause.

[PeeWee21]

That's "adapting" to your surroundings not "evolving" from one form to another. How can you say "something" derived from "nothing" makes any sense at all? With your theory then why are Arabic peoples eyes not slanted like a Japanese? It makes more sense "theoretically" for Arabic people to have the slanted eyes than Japanese since they practically live in the desert.....yet they don't.

Since evolving makes more sense then why can the "evolutionists" not answer why we can only produce our own kind. Why don't dogs have cats and cat have dogs? Why don't humans have apes as offspring since we are descendants of them? Give me an true answer, if there is one.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
That's "adapting" to your surroundings not "evolving" from one form to another. How can you say "something" derived from "nothing" makes any sense at all? With your theory then why are Arabic peoples eyes not slanted like a Japanese? It makes more sense "theoretically" for Arabic people to have the slanted eyes than Japanese since they practically live in the desert.....yet they don't.

Since evolving makes more sense then why can the "evolutionists" not answer why we can only produce our own kind. Why don't dogs have cats and cat have dogs? Why don't humans have apes as offspring since we are descendants of them? Give me an true answer, if there is one.

It was a small example. But dont you think over the millions of years people make so many small adaptions over and over until they look like something else. But, the origional creature is still existent because they could have not required to adapt because they were in a seperate location etc.

IT IS JUST THEORY, BUT IT MAKES ALOT MORE SENSE THEN SOME BEING MAGICALLY BEING ABLE TO PLAN BILLIONS OF LIVES AT ONCE AND ALSO LISTEN TO BILLIONS OF PRAYERS, AND THEN MAKE MIRACLES HAPPEN ALL AT THE SAME TIME.THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.


As for why we cant have cat babies, i dunno why you would! Anyways, our DNA Makes us up. Our DNA Controls every feature of our body. When there is a big enough gap then maybe the two cant combine because if one piece strand comes from the cat and says "Big *** claws" and then the humans side to that piece doesnt match up as "big *** claws" then they prob dont combine. Im not a scientist, this is just my educated guess. But your question had little relevence so i would not worry about it.

[Ralph]

also im dropping out of this thread, because if you were as smart as you think u are, and i though i was as smart as i thought i was then there wouldnt be an issue and the problem would be solved.

Both sides have gaps. I just believe in mine more and it makes more sense to me.

ALSO, i dont use the evelution theory to make decisions. You have never heard anyone say they were on a mission from evelution.

I think there are alot bigger problems with religion and they have nothing to do with evelution.

[PeeWee21]

LOL I was'nt saying i wanted to have cat babies but you did'nt answer my question either. You seemed to get irritated by my questions. Yes i know dna controls every aspect of our make up....but science says we come from evolution which means we come from a single celled micro organism and as you said the original creature is still there then why do all animals only produce the same kind of animals? They should be producing i wide variety of animals not just the same thing. You talk about my questions have little relevance and just a fyi they're not a question of religion....it's a question of sceince.

I never stated that i thought i was smart, i simply asked questions that no one seems to be able to answer. I'm no scientist but i have alot of research to back up my questions. Take the bible completely out of the question and still answer my questions.

I did'nt mean to offend you or anyone else so if is the case then i apologize.

[angry450r]

first of all everything that is being said on here is "opinon" right?... right. well I would like someone to show me anything in the bible that talks about dinosuars millions of years ago? the bible does not use times like that. I personally do not believe that. thousands of years is what is stated in the bible thats what is stated. now Im not a big bible bouncer but my wife is a lutheran school teacher and could recite the bible front and back. now one debate I got into with her and some friends is "dinosuars" there is no actual proof she told me when they lived. well I investiagted this myself and she is right. scientists claim the age of the bones that they have found using carbon dating from the carbon in the bone mass. well carbon dating is a therory not a fact. so nobody actually knows when dino's lived. and some will tell you they never did. that god put the resources in the ground that they never lived. just my opinonated .02

[NorCalRacer]

Evolution didn't happen overnight. People and animals do evolve, from generation to generation. To the people who say "then why are there still monkies?", maybe they evolved from something below them. Both sides have gaps, but I can't bring myself to believe in creation, no matter how hard I try. I think it was a wonderful thing for people to believe back when drilling through your head was a way to cure a headache but it's usefulness might be outlived. If there was no scientific basis for evolution it would not be taught in schools, if there was ANY scientific EVIDENCE, not speculation, to prove truth to anything in the bible besides it's accuracy in history and politics it would probably be taught as well. There are many accurate history books, but only one is considered a religion.
I am not bashing christianity ar even saying it is incorrect, I could easily be wrong as well.
Guess we'll all know someday.......maybe

[PeeWee21]

We went through this before, Dinosaur did'nt become a word until the late 1800's, but look up dragon in the bible and you'll find the answers you need.;)

[bwamos]

My opinion is that the Bible doesn't talk much about the dinosaurs, not because they didn't exist, but because they are irrelevant.

The bible claims that God created the creatures of the earth before he created man. Who says that didn't include the reign and demise of dinosaurs? Wether they existed or not, is irrelevant to anything in the Bible. Science confirms that man did not exist during the time of the dinosaur, so why write in detail about something completely irrelevant to the story at hand?

A book about the life of Augustus (sp?) isn't likley to talk about the Hawian islands. It's not that they didn't exist, but that it is completely irrelevant to the story.

[PeeWee21]

That's just it, there is NO scientific evidence for evolution, it's all theory. All they can say is we formed from sludge in a pond millions of years ago.....that's funny....were they there millions of years ago? Did they see us evolve from that? They say they can prove it with carbon 14 dating and yet is wrong as many times as it is right.

As for evolving from monkeys or any other animal....it still does'nt explain why it's not happening today. Why do monkey, apes, gorillas, or ANY OTHER animal produce something other than it's kind.

Look at the population increase, we have accurate dating to judge this by. In 1920 there was only half the amount of people on earth that there is today, it's less than a 100 years and we've doubled that number. Hmm.....

In order for sciences theory that all the continents were connected then we'd have to shrink Africa 35-40% in order to fit it there. What is at the bottom of the ocean? Land, what is that land connected to? Other land...so how did it move if the land under the water is connected to the land above the water?

Science proves that the earth move away from the sun at a rate of 1.2 feet per year.....billions of years ago the earth would have been against the sun if this was correct.

Why do they have fossils of dinosaur foot prints and human footprints together if they lived way before our time?

If you put people on a merry go round and spin it to where people fly off....they spin the same exact way the merry go round was spinning.....if the big bang theory is true then why does Jupiter have moons that go backwards? There are other plants that have the same thing.

Have you ever seen a star born? There not a record anywhere that anyone has evidence that a star has been born....they only have records of them burning out and dying.

I've got a bunch of questions that no one can answer.

[NorCalRacer]

LOL

Carbon Dating is more accurate than folk tales. We have found humans in various stages of evolution, I guess that is not enough. Generations in animals do evolve, just not overnight. Humans constantly evolve as well, each generation slightly different than the last. No-body gives birth to their clone.

I am not even going to respond to your claim that man walked with dinosaurs:eek2: As far as the earth hitting the sun, that is also hilarious. Out of all the arguments I have heard, your's are by far the most entertaining.
Oh yeah, the earth is made up of plates that shift, but I guess that is theory as well:devil:

[bwamos]

Originally posted by NorCalRacer
If there was no scientific basis for evolution it would not be taught in schools

Not to discredit you in anyway. But, that isn't sound statment. It would be nice if it were true, but it is not.

I would like to challenge you to read Darwins book on the theory of evolution. Then dig through the palentological data over the last 500 years and find me a single example of a creature in the mid stages of evolving from one species into another.

No fossil record exists to support macro-evolution. Not a single piece. In fact as said before the scientific data refutes Darwins theory of evolution. But it is still taught because it is easy to swallow, and they don't have any other explanation.


If there was ANY scientific EVIDENCE, not speculation, to prove truth to anything in the bible besides it's accuracy in history and politics it would probably be taught as well.

Outside of it's accuracy to the origional manuscripts, history, and local polotics, what scientific data are you looking for?

I also disagree on it being taught if they thought it had any evidence. The Bible is an offense to anyone who doesn't want to beleive. No one wants to be told that the there is only one way to heaven. No one wants to that they should live a live of service rather than a life of self gratitude. Just like teenagers rebel against their parents, and don't want to listen to what they have to say (especially if it is right), it is our nature to rebel against what doesn't give us immediate satisfaction.


I am not bashing christianity ar even saying it is incorrect, I could easily be wrong as well.
Guess we'll all know someday.......maybe

Didn't take it as bashing. ;) Good, healthy, debating.

[PeeWee21]

If Carbon 14 dating is that accurate how come there are hundreds of thousands of cases where it was incorrect. If they evolve so much then why does a Collie from the 1800's look identical from the Collies of today? Why do humans still look like humans?

As for not reponding to my man walking with Dinosaurs? Why to cultures after cultures have drawings, heiroglyphics, paintings, carvings of man slaying dinosaurs, walking with dinosaurs, riding dinosaurs.......if they never actually seen a dinosaur? These are relics that are supposed to millions of years old but they have dinosaur pictures on them?????? How is that?

[NorCalRacer]

Lucy? The ice-man? Just a few paleontological specimens of the SLOW process of evolution.
I just want evidence the bible is anything other than a semi accurate history book. They say the red sea can part, they think they have found the ark and there was a huge flood. Nothing in there makes me question evolution. I want evidence man came from nothing.
I agree, this is a good debate. It's nice to be able to discuss such a controversial topic without any petty flaming.

[400exrules]

i dont think we are meant to have all the answers.....we're just supposed to have hope and be faithful to the Lord........think of it all as a big test




now.......lets talk about bigfoot!

[PeeWee21]

It extremely surprising that it isn't a flamefest!! lol Good job guys!!!

[honda350r]

Check this out .. I bet alot of you did not know that our paper money did not used to say " IN GOD WE TRUST" Someone decided to put that on our money after 1957 ! Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me .. Just food for thought ..

[bwamos]

Originally posted by NorCalRacer
[B]Lucy? The ice-man? Just a few paleontological specimens of the SLOW process of evolution.

I agree 100% with micro-evolution.

Macro evolution.. changing from one genus into another is where i have the problem, and where the scientific data is lacking.

The future may find these evidences. I'm not saying it can't be found. But, I'm not going to blindly beleive a scientific theory without sufficent evidence. As I said I'm a stubborn skeptic.. lol.


I just want evidence the bible is anything other than a semi accurate history book. They say the red sea can part, they think they have found the ark and there was a huge flood. Nothing in there makes me question evolution. I want evidence man came from nothing.

Nothing in the Bible truly refutes evolution or confirms it. All Genesis really says is:

Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind: and it was so.

Genesis 2:7
And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

So really this is completely a side debate that christians and non-christians alike have made the main debate. Wich is sad, honestly.

How life came to be, is still as much as a mystery, as it was a thousand years ago.

How God chose to create his creatures and mankind I'm sure is as creative as the creation itself. I don't doubt that God could turn dust into man. But, I also don't doubt that god could evolve a man if he so chose.

In all honesty the whole debate is completely irrelevant to the message of the Bible, lol.


I agree, this is a good debate. It's nice to be able to discuss such a controversial topic without any petty flaming.

I agree, it's amazing how long this thread has lasted. They are usually toast within an hour.. lol.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by honda350r
Check this out .. I bet alot of you did not know that our paper money did not used to say " IN GOD WE TRUST" Someone decided to put that on our money after 1957 ! Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me .. Just food for thought ..

Wrong again.. ;)

[Ralph]

Maybe we arent evolving into anything else shape wise because we are sufficiant for the areas we live in. We dont need to grow fur anymore because we stay warm with technology.

Did u ever think that our species is slowly evolving brain wise. Our brains get stronger. That could be something. Dont we only use 10% of our brain right now. Maybe our bodies will evolve to beable to use way more of our brain.

We have no reason to evolve right now. Except for global warming. Maybe we will slowly evolve to disperse heat better. Maybe dogs will start getting sweat glands because drolling out of their mouth isnt getting the heat out good enough anymore.

Maybe if we start to move into space and onto other planets our bodies will evolve to live better in those areas.

I think we evolve so we can best live around our surroundings. Thats why the monkeys in the rain forest arent evolving anymore. Because i know sure as hell a monkey will survive alot longer than we would out there. They are more mobile, etc. Perfect for their surroudnings. Maybe they will start getting smarter. I dont see why a monkey will evolve into something more human like, it would not beable to get around as fast, etc.

Also, people not believe it can go from species to species. If you make enough small changes from species to species it will change. If you never used your legs because you did not have to what would happen? They will get small and frail. Over time they should start to go away. Then the dna is changed telling the body not to even make legs. And a new species is born.

But similarities can still exist between the two species. Pigs for example. Our hearts are extremely similar to a pigs.

[Pappy]

Congradulations, this is the longest running thread on this site dealing with religon.

I geuss that dude got laid, because I figured it would be when hell froze over for this type of thread to go so long without the BS normally associated with the topic.

Its a good read...

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Ralph
Did u ever think that our species is slowly evolving brain wise. Our brains get stronger. That could be something. Dont we only use 10% of our brain right now. Maybe our bodies will evolve to beable to use way more of our brain.

Point in case of unfounded non-scientific information that they teach in schools. ;)

The fact is that we use 100% of our brains, but at any given instant in time it could be as little as 10%.

You're not going to be using the part of your brain that controls walking if you're sitting. ;)

http://www.csicop.org/si/9903/ten-percent-myth.html
quickie link for you.

Just one of my pet peve pieces of misinformation out there. ;)

[honda350r]

Originally posted by bwamos
Wrong again.. ;)


UHHH ,,, I said PAPER MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!

Still Right !!!

[Ralph]

Originally posted by bwamos
Point in case of unfounded non-scientific information that they teach in schools. ;)

The fact is that we use 100% of our brains, but at any given instant in time it could be as little as 10%.

You're not going to be using the part of your brain that controls walking if you're sitting. ;)

http://www.csicop.org/si/9903/ten-percent-myth.html
quickie link for you.

Just one of my pet peve pieces of misinformation out there. ;)

Ok, maybe our brain power will get bigger. And with the ten percent at once. I know im really not good at tapping my left foot while doin a circle with the right while writting a letter with my right hand and changing the channel with the left and watching tv. Maybe we will beable to use more of our brain at once to multitask.

I know that is a likely thing that would benefit people because of our demanding society today.

It was just an example. What do you think about the other things i wrote.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by honda350r
UHHH ,,, I said PAPER MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!

Still Right !!!

My, bad I must have missed that part. ;)

It has been on coinage since the 1800's though.

I don't know about paper currency before that period.. so I'll accept your point.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Ralph
It was just an example. What do you think about the other things i wrote.

I agree with many of your observations. It's not really the small changes that's the issue.. it's the large transitions that aren't logical, nor do they have any palentological evidence to back it up. The fossil records just "jump" as you will, with huge gaps in what should be there according to the theory of macro-evolution.

I have to go to work.. but I'll expound on what I mean as soon as I can.

I definatly don't consider myself an expert by any means on the evolution/creation debate. But, it's fun to debate. ;)

[250r4life]

i dont have the patience to go and read all the posts... but i did read the 1st page... for 1- a day to God is not a day for humans...
2- there is a lot of stuff that isnt covered in the scriptures...
3- the bible has been jacked with a lot
4- what does that have to do with your salvation?

:D :D :D

[juanki]

the bible is not a history book, its a book that any one can read and find confort and teach us how to deal with life, how to be a better person and how to be among others. its the real history about a nation that was opressed and found a way to be better, no matter how hard they had it. and they had it really bad, still. but anyway.

the fisrt part of the genesis is not well detail, and never ment to be, never was the point of it. it is just a way of how people in those time, and now, belive how everthing in the world is. from adam to moses, it doesnt tell you how long it was, and it doesnt matter, the important is the thing that happend in this time, like noas arc, it was a punishment for humand kind, like i posted before, there are writtings about this flood in other books from mesopotamia and other regions.

i dont think you have to folow the bible to the point and comas, but if you get the whole picture you can learn a lot, that is if you choose to.

[lostcreekz450]

this tells you its all lies i mean i hate to sound like some anti christ or somthing i belive in god and jesus and all that but i dont think its all true i think they said a ****load of white lies like forestgump and published it in a bible to make us behave threw out life



Originally posted by One_Bad_400
i dont get what ya'll are saying?

God made All Animals that live on the earth and the human being on the same day..(the 6th day)

__________________________________________________ __
Day 1: creation of light, and the separation of light from darkness

Day 2: creation of sky, and the separation of the waters above the sky and the waters below

Day 3: creation of earth, and the separation of earth from the waters below; creation of vegetation and the separation of different kinds of plants (each after its kind)

Day 4: creation of the sun, moon, and stars to separate day and night, and to order seasons

Day 5: creation of non-land animals and the separation of different kinds of animals; the command to be fruitful and multiply

Day 6: creation of land animals and the separation of different kinds of animals; creation of human beings, command to be fruitful and multiply, given dominion over the earth

Day 7: God rests and blesses the seventh day

__________________________________________________ __

So it says that the 6th day God created land animals and human beings...?!?!

[Ralph]

what did he do on the 8th day?

[400exrules]

Originally posted by Ralph
what did he do on the 8th day?

some people think we are currently living in the 7th, or 8th day......but you have to think, a "day" could be any amount of time, so its possible

[300exMarc]

Originally posted by Ralph
like the no sex until marriage part!

You have to test the car before buying!:D

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by Ralph
what did he do on the 8th day?

Sat back , had a beer and played poker with some buddies !!!:blah:

300exMarc ... where you from ?? As soon as I saw your screen name , I knew you were from somewhere in Canada ..... seems only french Canadians spell Marc with a "C" ... everyone else uses a "K" . I'm guessing you're from either Quebec or have a french background .

[Ralph]

well if he rested on the 7th day and we might be on the 8th day now. What is he doing if he rested yesterday? Dont seem like he works too much

[juanki]

Originally posted by Ralph
well if he rested on the 7th day and we might be on the 8th day now. What is he doing if he rested yesterday? Dont seem like he works too much

yes, His work is done, is up to us to live these days to the best we can, He gave us everthing we have in this planet,and again, is up to us to live in harmony, until He returns and take us to a better place. well, thats what i think.

[conway400]

I would jump in by just saying that science and the Bible are not in conflict. God is not in the least afraid of what you will find. God even says in scripture that you are to reason with Him. You are to study and find out what is true. Everything is riding on it.

Micro-evolution is true - and proven. It is easily seen in all the unique dog breeds we have. Not new species - only differences within the same kind. This is called natural selection.

Macro-evolution, as described above, is at best a religion. Why? because almost all theories about it have been disproven or show to be intentional fabrications. I would never ask you to believe me, but to study and see. Darwin even said that if a few, certain things were discovered, he would, without hesitation, abondon his theory. Well - they have been discovered.

It takes more faith to belive in the millions of year stuff and evolution than it does the Bible. The very laws that govern this theory must be abandoned to make it work. You must suspend natural laws (conservation of energy, entropy) in the beginning to make it work. Suspention of natural laws if the definition of a miracle.

Carbon dating can date living things as being tens of thousands of years old.

Also, on the fossils of 'early man', most everyone of these is described or sculpted or painted from only a fragment of a jaw bone!

Don't believe anyone without studying for yourself. If your motive is truth, you will find it. If it is to find what you want to hear, you will find that, too. the Bible doesn't answer every question. it doesn't need to. But it answers way more than you think.

Also, why abandon the Bible because you don't get all of it? I don't get all of how an airplane flys, but I studied enough (maybe just from watching them) that I wouldn't hesitate to take a trip in one. I would never go anywhere if I waited until I understood all of aerodynamics and mechanics before I jumped in! :)

[NorCalRacer]

How do you have to suspend natural laws to support evolution? I'm all ears.

[bwamos]

How is a bat with long gangly fingers and large skin flaps not quite large enough yet to fly, yet too cumbersom to crawl efficently going to survive the process of natural selection? It can't crawl effectivly, nor fly effectivly to escape predators. The mutation would get gobbled up, while the ones that could crawl faster would survive.

The midpoint of evolutionary stages are not fully efficent in either arena, therefore they are not the best suited for survival.

There is a point where they can mutate up to and still be effective in survival.. but there is that large gap in the middle where they are innefective and the least likley to survive of the species.

These are the creatures that are missing from the fossil record.

Either a massive mutation must occur (which isn't all that unreasonable, I've seen some pretty massive mutations), or some other process must have occured. But the tiny steps of Darwinian theory isn't feasible in many situations if you truly think about it.

Also, evolutionary theory is honestly irrelevant to the integrity or truthfulness of the Bible. For some reason everyones gotten into their head.. if evolution is true or false it refutes/confirms the Bible one way or the other. This simply is not true, as the Bible as far as I am aware does not have anything to say on the subject one way or the other. It says that god created man and animal from the earth/dust of the fields. Lord only know's what his process was. Simply, it's human pride on both sides of the fence that has created this "debate".

[conway400]

I'll try a little without any books in front of me. :)

Evolutionary theory depends on the millions (billions) or years theory for the age of the earth and universe. If you follow the arguments to justify this kind of age, the arguments and observations lead to a point back in time where everything started at once from nothing (the big bang). If energy can neither be created or destroyed (only change form) then how did nothing become the tremendous amount of energy and matter in the universe today?

Also, the natural order of anything (without intelligent input) is always to degenerate into less order. An ice cude which melts can never become that orderly cube shape again without some outside input (a human) putting the water back into a cube shaped container and refreezing (adding energy). However, evolution demands that order becomes the norm from raw materials - on their own. This violates entropy laws.

BTW - when energy changes forms, it always becomes a less 'useful' form. Burning gasoline in your car, for example, produces energy (not created - just released from matter). Much of it is wasted as light and heat that you cannot reuse to the degree it was in before - if at all. if the universe is billions of years old, most of the useful energy should be almost gone.

[conway400]

Oh yeah, this is cool too - especially considering that all these books were written by different people over hundreds and hundreds of years and there is not an even distribution between Old and New Testaments at all. I haven't verified all of this - but...


Q: What is the shortest chapter in the Bible?
A: Psalms 117

Q: What is the longest chapter in the Bible?
A: Psalms 119

Q: Which chapter is in the center of the Bible?
A: Psalms 118

Fact: There are 594 chapters before Psalms 118
Fact: There are 594 chapters after Psalms 118
Add these numbers up and you get 1188.

Q: What is the center verse in the Bible?
A: Psalms 118:8

Q: Does this verse say something significant about God's perfect will for our lives?

The next time someone says they would like to find
God's perfect will for their lives and that they want to
be in the center of His will, just send them to the
center of His Word!

Psalms 118:8
"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

Now isn't that odd how this worked out (or was God in the center of it)?

Personally I believe that everything happens for a reason, and I've had a few cases where it freaked me out how true it was. Maybe God did do all this in 7 of his days and that was the starting point. Why is it so hard to believe that God (who is referred to all knowing) didn't think of this before hand, and gave the creatures the ability to enable itself to survive in a different habitat? Maybe the Bible is wrong about a few things, maybe Adam and Eve was really the earliest ancestors of the modern day humans..Not exactly alike but we evolved from them. Why do people have to be picky in what they believe in? Nothing is perfect, everything has flaws. That's why it's called faith.

[honda350r]

Note: the following is an "Urban Legend." It is Not true:

Q. What is the shortest Chapter in the Bible?

A. Psalm 117

Q. What is the longest Chapter in the Bible?

A. Psalm 119

Q. Which Chapter is in the exact center of the Bible?

A. Psalm 118

Fact: There are 594 Chapters before Psalm 118. (Not true.)

Fact: There are 594 Chapters after Psalm 118. (Not true.)

...Add these Chapters together and the total is: 1188.

Q. What is the Center Verse in the Bible?

A. Psalm 118:8 (Psalm 118:8 is Not the "Center Verse" of the Bible.)

Q. Does this Verse say something significant about God's Perfect Will for our lives?

A. The next time someone says they would like to find God's Perfect Will for their life, and that they want to be in the Center of His Will...just send them to Psalm 118:8!

"It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."

-Psalm 118:8

________________________________

Note: the actual Chapter count totals are:

Genesis
50


Exodus
40


Leviticus
27


Numbers
36


Deuteronomy
34


Joshua
24


Judges
21


Ruth
4


1 Samuel
31


2 Samuel
24


1 Kings
22


2 Kings
25


1 Chronicles
29


2 Chronicles
36


Ezra
10


Nehemiah
13


Esther
10


Job
42


Psalms 1-117
117




Total: 595 Chapters







Psalms 119-150
32


Proverbs
31


Ecclesiates
12


Song of Songs
8


Isaiah
66


Jeremiah
52


Lamentations
5


Ezekiel
48


Daniel
12


Hosea
14


Joel
3


Amos
9


Obadiah
1


Jonah
4


Micah
7


Nahum
3


Habakkuk
3


Zephaniah
3


Haggai
2


Zechariah
14


Malachi
4


Matthew
28


Mark
16


Luke
24


John
21


Acts
28


Romans
16


1 Corinthians
16


2 Corinthians
13


Galatians
6


Ephesians
6


Philippians
4


Colossians
4


1 Thessalonians
5


2 Thessalonians
3


1 Timothy
6


2 Timothy
4


Titus
3


Philemon
1


Hebrews
13


James
5


1 Peter
5


2 Peter
3


1 John
5


2 John
1


3 John
1


Jude
1


Revelation
22



Total: 593 Chapters

Note: As you can see, Psalm 118 is therefore not the center chapter of the Bible. There are 594 chapters up to (and including) Psalm 116, and 594 Chapters from 118 on (including Psalm 118).

This makes Psalm 117, (not Psalm 118) the center chapter of the Bible.

Psalm 117 is the shortest Psalm. It has only two verses, and therefore no "center" verse. ___________________________________

Psalm 117:

1. O praise the Lord, all ye nations: praise him all ye people.

2. For his merciful kindness is great toward us, and the truth of the Lord endureth forever. Praise ye the Lord.

___________________________________

There is in fact No Center Verse of the Bible---the Bible has an Even Number of verses.

The King James Bible has 31,174 verses — an even number — so there is no one "center" verse: the center would be a combination of the 15,587th and the 15,588th verses, which do fall within Psalm 118 (Psalm 118:8-9, to be exact).
___________________________________

[6.0Powerstroke]

That was the longest post i have ever read, but it was quite insiteful.