Synthetic oil??

[ohsobad_chevy]

I have a 2004 400ex. I have rode about 100 hours on it. I have been using the GN4 honda oil since i bought it. Should i switch to synthetic oil. I am curious to know what brand of synthetic oil and what weight is the best for summer time riding. Temps here go from 70 to 100 in the summer.

[400exrules]

run this

[bwamos]

I run exactly the same thing in my 330ex.

[Chris S.]

If you change your oil reguarly GN4 is just fine. In fact honda doesn't recommend synthetic use in the 400ex. I wouldn't spend the extra money on synthetic unless I was really strectching the oil change intervals. Synthetic is completely over rated and over priced. Its like putting premium fuel in something that is rated for 87 octance. Synthetic should be cheaper being that it is man made and not petroleum based. Also with your air cooled engine, it will run hotter than with synthetic. Synthetics have a place and are the right oil for somethings but not a 400ex. Most motors where the engine and transmission oil are in one capacity synthetic is very rarely the right oil to use. Most parts counter guys will sell you synthetic because of price but do some research . I was a synthetic believer but now it only gets used in my generator. Its funny how many guys change there oil every 2-3 rides and use synthetic. Don't take my word for it and do your research and look at your owners manual.

[idontknowwhoiam]

i use amsoil in almost everything i own..hahah

[gojufist]

My manual says to use pro honda gn4 or hp4 10 w 40 without molybdenum additives, i believe the hp4 is an synthetic blend i'm not shure i'll check next time i go to the dealer

[ohsobad_chevy]

Originally posted by gojufist
My manual says to use pro honda gn4 or hp4 10 w 40 without molybdenum additives, i believe the hp4 is an synthetic blend i'm not shure i'll check next time i go to the dealer

I have an owners manual too, bro...I was asking about other synthetic oils people are using...:D

[deathman53]

I usually find that synthetic oils run cooler, atleast it does on my xr250r. I usually use klotz oil and it runs cooler. I used to use honda oil and the bike ran hot about 230, since I used klotz it runs about 180-200 and I get longer life from a oil change. I have a temperature guage on my xr250r, thats how I know the operating temps. I notice a similar thing on my crf450r quad, honda oil tends to run hotter than klotz.

[400exrider707]

A good quality synthetic is good, just make sure its for wet clutch systems (basically any synthetic not containing moly). It will help the engine maintain cooler temps and it doesn't take as long to break down like dino oils. I too run klotz MX4 in all my quads. I always ran it in my 400ex. I would more likely to run it in a 400ex. Why not? Its air cooled and needs all the cooling help it get.

[guinness77]

I've run many many types of oil in my 2004 400ex. The synthetics DO last just a little bit longer. But not enough to justify the price. They are grossly over-rated and at 7.50 per quart; grossly over-priced. I find the best value to be Catroil 4-stroke motorcycle oil. They have all the wet clutch additives you need and cost about 2.40 per quart.

[400exrules]

dont listen to them, synthetic is 100 times better then crap crude oil, which is what your buying with GN4. if u use synthetic, it has to be wet clutch compatible, which amsoil is....use it!

[Chris S.]

I hopped off the synthetic bandwagon about 6 months ago. Main reason is I change my oil every 6-10 hours of use. The other reason is Honda recommends GN4 or equivialent. Why wouldn't honda recommend synthetic if it is better for the motor? They warranty it and have a big reputation to maintain for reliable, long lasting motors. Also, when I bought my web cam for my 400ex, it came with instructions that said not to use synthetic. Never asked them why but a local tech told he sees cam failure occassionally due to synthetics. Only read one other statement similar to his from a engine builder on this site. I see no benefit from having a oil that extends oil change intervals for use in a quad. Quads are ran in dusty, muddy, sandy, wet enviroments and putting new oil as often as you can is the best thing you can do to prevent premature wear. I think changing your oil more often is better than using synthetic and extending your oil changes. Guys with extremely built race motors, I could see where there are some benefits of synthetics but for the average rider and mostly stock motor, I'm not convinced that synthetics are the better investment.

[400exrules]

Originally posted by Chris S.
I hopped off the synthetic bandwagon about 6 months ago. Main reason is I change my oil every 6-10 hours of use. The other reason is Honda recommends GN4 or equivialent. Why wouldn't honda recommend synthetic if it is better for the motor?

durrrr because they sell it!


and your not supposed to use synthetic during cam or piston break-in...but after that you should use it, its alot better then the crude oil your buying

if you dont trust me, just ask Rico, he will fill you in

[Chris S.]

Honda also sells synthetic oil that is more expensive. So why wouldn't they promote that? You seem irratated by my opinion on synthetic oil. Don' take it personally, that was not my intention.

[gojufist]

they know more than the engineers,they probably are engineers Buy some Royal Purple

[400exrules]

fine, if your that hooked on crude oil then thats your choice

but read this first, maybe it will change your mind,
this is a direct quote from Rico:

"Best thing you could ever do to your motor is run synthetic in it. IT is more expensive but offers so much more protection that it's worth it to me.

Amsoil 20w-50 is my choice of poison................


Here's a little reading taken from the Oil Bible. IT will clearlyl state the difference between Synthetic vs. Petroleum oil and why synthetic is better. It's written about vehicle motors but it still applies to ATV motors that run on gasoline. It's good reading and worth the time to go over.

Synthetic vs. Petroleum
Oil is the lifeblood of your vehicle's engine. Without motor oil, there is little likelihood that any of your
vehicles would make it past the end of your street each morning. For decades conventional petroleum
oils have been providing adequate protection for all of our vehicles.
Notice the key word here: adequate. Petroleum oils, for the most part, have done an adequate job of
protecting our engines from break down. If you change it often enough, you can be relatively sure that
your car will last 100,000 to 150,000 miles without a serious engine problem - maybe even longer.
My question is this: Why are you settling for adequate when something better has been available for
about 30 years? Do you ask your mechanic to simply keep your vehicle from breaking down, or do you
want him/her to keep it running in tip-top shape? The fact that you are reading this book suggests the
latter.
It is perfectly reasonable to expect top performance from your vehicles. You are certainly paying for it.
It's tough to buy a vehicle for less than $15,000 to $20,000 anymore. That's a great deal of money to
shell out for adequate performance.
Today's engines are built for better performance, and, although petroleum oils are designed for better
protection and performance today than they were 10 or 20 years ago, there is only so much that can be
done. Today's engines need high performance lubricants, and synthetics are the only ones that fit
the bill.
Conventional petroleum oils are insufficient for use in today's vehicles primarily because they are
manufactured from a refined substance, as was discussed in Chapter 2. Petroleum oil basestocks
contain paraffins (wax), sulfur, nitrogen, oxygen, water, salts and certain metals. All of these
contaminants must be refined out of the basestock in order for it to be useful for use within a lubricant.
Unfortunately, no refining process is perfect. Impurities will always remain when any refining process is
done. It simply isn't economical to continue to refine the oil again and again to remove more impurities.
If this was done, petroleum oils would cost as much as synthetic oils do.
Thus, there are many components of petroleum oil basestocks which are completely unnecessary for
protecting your engine. They do absolutely nothing to enhance the lubrication properties of the oil. In
fact, most of these contaminants are actually harmful to your oil AND your engine.
PRONE TO BREAK-DOWN
Some of the chemicals in conventional petroleum lubricants break down at temperatures well within the
normal operating temperature range of your engine. Others are prone to break down in these relatively
mild temperatures only if oxygen is present. But, this is invariably the case anyway, especially since
oxygen is one of the contaminants within petroleum basestocks.
These thermally and oxidatively unstable contaminants do absolutely nothing to aid in the lubrication
process. They are only present in conventional petroleum oils because removing them would be
impossible or excessively expensive.
When thermal or oxidative break down of petroleum oil occurs, it leaves engine components coated
with varnish, deposits and sludge. In addition, the lubricant which is left is thick, hard to pump and
WHY PETROLEUM OILS ARE INSUFFICIENT
maintains little heat transfer ability.
POOR COLD TEMPERATURE STARTS
In addition, as was previously mentioned, petroleum oils contain paraffins which cause dramatic oil
thickening in cold temperatures. Even with the addition of pour point depressant additives, most
petroleum oils will begin to thicken at temperatures 10 to 40 degrees warmer than synthetic oils.
As a result, petroleum lubricants will not readily circulate through your engine's oil system during cold
weather. This may leave engine parts unprotected for minutes after startup. Obviously, significant wear
can occur during this time frame.
MARGINAL HEAT CONTROL
Even when all conditions are perfect for conventional oils to do their job, they fall far short of synthetic
oils. Part of the problem is that (because of their refined nature) petroleum oils are composed of
molecules which vary greatly in size.
As the oil flows through your vehicle's lubrication system, the small, light molecules tend to flow in the
center of the oil stream while the large, heavy ones adhere to metal surfaces where they create a
barrier against heat movement from the component to the oil stream. In effect, the large, heavy
molecules work like a blanket around hot components.
There is also another effect of the non-uniformity of petroleum oil molecules which reduces their
effectiveness. Uniformly smooth molecules slip over one another with relative ease. This is not the case
with molecules of differing size.
Theoretically, it might be somewhat similar to putting one layer of marbles on top of another (if this
could easily be done). If the marbles were all of the same size, they would move over one another fairly
easily. However, if they were all of differing sizes, the result would be much less efficient.
In the case of petroleum oils this inefficiency leads, ironically, to added friction in the system (the very
thing that lubricants are supposed to reduce). Hence, petroleum oils are only marginally capable of
controlling heat in your engine. Considering that motor oil does nearly 50% of the cooling of your
engine, that's not a good thing. But, I'm sure you've already guessed that"