How wide are you...300ex ?

[Pappy]

Im about to lay out the front end plans for a 300ex, and I would like some measurements. How wide are you and what width arm and offset rim are you running?

[reconmaster]

i'm runnin stock wheels itp 21inch holeshot xcrs and a 400ex front +3 inches on each side and the last time i check i think i am around 45-47inches my rear is 49 with a durablue axle at the narrowest setting
www.racingben.piczo.com to see pics of my ex and the front end set up

[Sjorge450R]

stock axle, stock arms (working on some +2 ASR) stock offset wheels all the way around. Pappy, I think the stock setup is amazing for XC. I am doing very well in D-6 (First place in District, Second in State and First at a track series) I am going to be switching to the +2 fronts because the front is narrower than the rear.

[Pappy]

Well, I need to find out some hard numbers, I already have a new axle here, and id like to see how wide the fronts are running with a 2+1 arm and 4-1 rims.

This 300 will have to serve dual roles MX and XC with a tires and rim change so I need to find the sweet spot.

[wishmasstir]

i think its right around 48 inches in the front...+2+1 a-arms with 3/2 offset rims. thats 2 on the inside and 3 on the outside...rims are wider than we wanted to run on it but the rear was too much wider than the front so with the bigger offset front rims and moving the spacers in on the eliminator axle 1/2" on each side

http://www.geocities.com/wishmasstir/250x.JPG

[Sjorge450R]

Originally posted by Pappy
Well, I need to find out some hard numbers, I already have a new axle here, and id like to see how wide the fronts are running with a 2+1 arm and 4-1 rims.

This 300 will have to serve dual roles MX and XC with a tires and rim change so I need to find the sweet spot.

with +2 and 3-2 wheels, you still wont be as wide as a 450r :). Thats why I am doing it, so that I can get some more stability.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by wishmasstir
i think its right around 48 inches in the front...+2+1 a-arms with 3/2 offset rims. thats 2 on the inside and 3 on the outside...rims are wider than we wanted to run on it but the rear was too much wider than the front so with the bigger offset front rims and moving the spacers in on the eliminator axle 1/2" on each side


46 or so will do me good, thats as wide as his 90 mod and he will be comfortable with that. thanks!

[wishmasstir]

about 44 with just +2's ... so with 3/2's it would be about 46

[wishmasstir]

i think with +3's and 4/1's it'll be at 46

[Pappy]

I think the +3's would hurt him in the woods, he would be fighting it , not too mention TREES:p

[wishmasstir]

yeah keep him away from the trees ... maybe just swap out 3/2s for mx and 4/1s for the woods or something simple like that. good luck on the build though...i'm sure he'll tear it up

[rollie]

+4 axle on the back, 48 inches
+2+1 a-arms with 3-2 offset 48 1/2 in the front

wayy to wide for trails though

[Cody_300ex]

49.5" with Gdh LT +3's and 3-2 rims, by far the best front end on the market for the 300ex....

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Cody_300ex
49.5" with Gdh LT +3's and 3-2 rims, by far the best front end on the market for the 300ex....

how many different 300ex front ends did you test to come to that conclusion? wasnt that arm designed by another manufacture and copied by GDH?

[300ex_#387]

Get some +2 a arms, and some 4-1 and 3-2 rims. I run +2's with 3-2 rims and its to wide for the trails, but the 4-1's are just right.

[red rider88]

i think its 48 maybe with +2 +1 leagers with the shock relocator

[300ex73]

Originally posted by Pappy
how many different 300ex front ends did you test to come to that conclusion? wasnt that arm designed by another manufacture and copied by GDH?

I'm with Pappy on this one. How do you know that it's THE best front end for it? I know it's a very good front end, but without testing every setup available, you can't really pass that kind of judgement. For all anyone knows, a +2+1 standard travel setup could be better than yours when setup correctly. I know I like my Burgards setup really well, but I'm going to be trying a different setup as soon as I can get back to work on my 300.

And besides, the best suspension isn't always what everyone says is the best. It's the setup that work the best for YOU, that you should consider the best. That's why I'm making an effort to try different setups.

BTW, my frontend is 50 inches with stock rims. and like 49-49.5 with 4-1 offset rims.

[Pappy]

Yeah, thats a pet peeve of mine, "The Best"...

There are so many techinical things that go into making a front end work at a level I want it too, that i cant accept "Its the best" without some proof. The arms he mentioned have problems albiet they could work quite well for someone who has not had a chance tto try alot of different set ups , or who has never had a shock builder work specifically for them to get the shocks dialed in.

The tuff part about our set up is that we really wont know what we will be running. It could be a MX race one day, a XC the next. National XC races are getting wider all the time, but locals are still tight as a bulls ***. the kid will have enough issues learning the ropes of racing with adults much less battling a wide front end, or one that keeps the quad "tippy".

I have the shock relocator ordered, as per my conversation with my shock company, the relocator manufacture and more then one high level 300ex rider. The hard part is deciding the width. Ideally it would be no wider then 46 inches yet wider then 44. i reckon a tape measure and some more questions will get it resolved.

if I run 400ex arms, i will run Burgards withe the HD joint and I will add plates to the bottom similiar to LSR. This set up will get us the 2-1 ratio that I keep being told is ideal on this set up, but I am by far a shock expert so I will try not to dwell on that.


Now on to stabilizers:p

[red rider88]

hmm stablizers i like my PEP

[300ex73]

I'm pretty well against the idea of running a 400EX frontend on a 300EX. I actually took the time to measure them both out, stock for stock, and found the differences in both. The front geometry of both is VERY different. But, that's not to say a caster/camber adjustable front setup couldn't be dialed in to work. But I do know that on arms that are only camber adjustable, that it won't work quite right.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by red rider88
hmm stablizers i like my PEP

I will never run a stick dampner again, I will call Precision and have one made for the 300ex.

[red rider88]

i didnt no they could make them for u ...i think ill have my dad give them a call

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
how many different 300ex front ends did you test to come to that conclusion? wasnt that arm designed by another manufacture and copied by GDH?

Nooo, John worked over a year and a half on designing them. I've rode on 400ex stock front ends, 250r stock, bugard std travel, a few 400ex aftermarket front ends, ect ect... I ride more than people think on this site.

[Pappy]

how come i remeber him pm'ing me to see if i could help get his arms from burgard? when they shipped he started posting pics and then gdh started up.

maybe i have it wrong, but i have a feeling they just took burgards arms and either copied them or maybe are even selling them under thier own name. in either case, if they are the same arms i have been told to avoid them, no matter whos name is on them.

[elementryder]

hey its a very bad idea to run the relocator and burgard +2 300ex a arms you have to actually compress the shock to fit it in and then the front end is jacked in the air i ran this for one race and broke a ball joint i now have GDH +3 lt i love this set up have about 11 in of travel with works shocks and am about 47 with 3-2 but am looking in to getting 2-3

[300exOH]

Originally posted by elementryder
hey its a very bad idea to run the relocator and burgard +2 300ex a arms you have to actually compress the shock to fit it in and then the front end is jacked in the air i ran this for one race and broke a ball joint i now have GDH +3 lt i love this set up have about 11 in of travel with works shocks and am about 47 with 3-2 but am looking in to getting 2-3

I have a relocater bracket w/ burgard +2+1 arms and never had to compress the shock to put it on. My ride height in front is where it should be. :confused: I did custom order my shocks from elka though. I had to fill out a build sheet so the shocks I have may not be the same length as 400ex shocks.

Pappy- I can measure mine if you need. I have 3-2 offset stock wheels also.

[bustedknuckle]

My Son Uses JB Racing Plus, Two ,Plus One Arms, With His Relocater.It Works Great It Measures The Same As A Stock 450.We Run AWorcs And The Pelton.He Loves Them.With JBs Arms You Dont Need To Change Steering Stem.And Can Run 400 Shocks,Or Any Other Brand.We Use Elkas XC Shocks They Work Great.

[300ex mxracer]

400ex +2 asr a arms with 400ex works pro series triples w/ reb. and comp. adj. works awesome. im right at 49inches wide

[bwamos]

Not to derail the subject Pappy. But the 300ex has a really light front end in the air, as is.

If you're going with a +1 forward setup on the arms, you'll really need at least a +2 swinger to in the rear to balance it back out while still maintaining good straight line traction.

Note: this is NOT from personal experience with +1 forward arms. I have stock swinger and arms, but it is just an observation from what I see as a potential issue with the +1 forward arms, on a stock length swinger.

I'm sure you're already aware, but I didn't want to let it past without a heads-up.

Nothing worse than jumping a quad that wants to go rear end first everytime you leave the ground, or hit a whoop section.

[Pappy]

I had the wife a 300 a few years back and we installed +2 +1 arms with a stock swinger. I never really paid attention but it seemed to me that it helped with the front end being too light feeling?


I called Burgard today and he is building a set of +2 LT that use a 16 1/4 shock built by elka. I know a local B class rider running this and it seems to do well, but hands on expierence will tell us for ourselves. I will hold off on the swinger for now, but I do appreciate the advice.

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
how come i remeber him pm'ing me to see if i could help get his arms from burgard? when they shipped he started posting pics and then gdh started up.

maybe i have it wrong, but i have a feeling they just took burgards arms and either copied them or maybe are even selling them under thier own name. in either case, if they are the same arms i have been told to avoid them, no matter whos name is on them.

You may be thinking im trying to get you to buy the a-arms, Im not, I could care less(no pun intended). Im just trying to defend John, the owner of GDH racing. Here is bugards design, gullwing.

[300exOH]

Originally posted by Pappy
I had the wife a 300 a few years back and we installed +2 +1 arms with a stock swinger. I never really paid attention but it seemed to me that it helped with the front end being too light feeling?


I called Burgard today and he is building a set of +2 LT that use a 16 1/4 shock built by elka. I know a local B class rider running this and it seems to do well, but hands on expierence will tell us for ourselves. I will hold off on the swinger for now, but I do appreciate the advice.

My 300 with the +2+1 arms and stock swingarm seems fine. I think it would help to add an inch to the swinger for better higher speed stability but it isn't needed IMO. I did notice that the light front end is no longer a problem compared to stock. I'm not sure if its the aftermarket shocks or the extra inch forward on the a arms though. I don't have trouble keeping the front end down but I'm not nearly as lightweight as Cody. Either way the quad feels very balanced to me.

[Cody_300ex]

John was going to go with one very similar to this but he found a few things he didnt like so he started from scratch designing these, wayy different than bugards design.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Cody_300ex
John was going to go with one very similar to this but he found a few things he didnt like so he started from scratch designing these, wayy different than bugards design.

glad you cleared that up....i was unclear


now i know to avoid them (GDH) based on the shock builders advice due to the motion ratio? i think thats what it was called. if you could clear that up id feel a bit better;) and i am not trying to bash GDH...but when i am told to avoid a product and why, i tend to listen.

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
glad you cleared that up....i was unclear


now i know to avoid them (GDH) based on the shock builders advice due to the motion ratio? i think thats what it was called. if you could clear that up id feel a bit better;) and i am not trying to bash GDH...but when i am told to avoid a product and why, i tend to listen.

I know your not bashing, im just standing up for a friend, lol. You would have to talk to john himself about the motion ratio, Its just fine as far I know from the seat of pants, and compared to the other front ends I have ridden on. It may not be right.

[Pappy]

these were the pics emailed to me when john?gdh? first recieved them from burgard some time back...but i never did hear how they worked?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Cody_300ex
I know your not bashing, im just standing up for a friend, lol. You would have to talk to john himself about the motion ratio, Its just fine as far I know from the seat of pants, and compared to the other front ends I have ridden on. It may not be right.

seat of the pants is more then fine for me:p and i dont get into alot fo the tech stuff, but 3 different shock builders knew of these arms and all 3 basically said the same things. why...i dont know.

i would prefer to not use a shock relocator but i do know of several XC GNCC riders that have with much success so i know a decent set up can be obtained.

[reconmaster]

my set up
http://pic.piczo.com/img/i70051820_77205.jpg
http://pic.piczo.com/img/i179954615_7150.jpg
shes 43inches up front and 49 in the back

[bwamos]

Originally posted by Pappy
I had the wife a 300 a few years back and we installed +2 +1 arms with a stock swinger. I never really paid attention but it seemed to me that it helped with the front end being too light feeling?

Aye, I'm sure it helps keep the front end down on the ground when accelerating. I was just concerned with how it would handle in the air and in the whoops. But, now that I think about it, moving the front wheels forward 1" would only move the center of gravity rearward 1/2". I know my rear end likes to try to come around in the really rough stuff in the stock stance. I was picturing the 300 with forward mounted arms jumping about like tossing a half empty icecream carton through the air.

But, as I said before, it had nothing to do with actual experience on +1 forward arms. Obviously pure speculation, on my part.

[hard one]

with my plus six kit 54 inches