Which cylinder... between these two??

[stever250r]

These are my two options for cylinders.. I need to make a decision fast or the one will no longer be available to me.

The LRD cylinder is supposedly tommy Elza old cylinder. It is at 69.50mm which I think is a 270. Non PV. The high bidder on ebay never paid so the owner has sent me a second chance offer for $400.00.
Includes new piston and rings.. but I will need to purchase a PR0-X head for 199.00.

The second is the ESR 265 PV cylinder with the x-9 port. It still looks brand new.. but is locked up and the owner has not checked the damage yet. It may need to be resleeved but Im not for sure. I can get this one for the same price but if it needs to be resleeve Im looking at an additonal 325.00 plus a new piston kit.

What would you do??? I've never ridden a bike with either of these cylinders.

Please help me decide.

[Scott270R]

I would get the ESR 265PV all the way. Engines that small really benefit from having a powervalve the most. Just because its seized up doesn't mean its junk. I bet its the faster cylinder anyway. Eddie Sanders sells what he races and LRD has been know to sell "production" port jobs that work O.K. but not as good as their sponsored riders stuff.

[stever250r]

Do you think the trx-9 porting will still be ok for MX. That is the midrange to topend porting?

I was a little concerned about that.

[zedicus00]

out of thouse 2 i would pick the LRD for several reasons. first with it you know what yur getitng into and what you need to buy, i dunno bout you but i dont have crap for luck. second imnot a fan of ESR's porting... somedays its good, somedays its not, third, i actually dont like powervalves, they hinder the top end (trx-9 porting is mid to top porting) if yur use to running a 4-stroke that you can lug around then powervalves make the transition to 2-stroke easier. but its just one more thing to break and cause other problems....

rember though these are all just my own thoughts and personall opinions, take it as advice, not the answer.

[Meat]

powervalves dont hinder the top end power at all, its quite the opposite. By design they can only increase top end power over a non PV jugg. The PV design allows for a higher exhaust port duration, which equals more power on the top of the power curve.

[zedicus00]

MYTH: powevalves increase power.

the only purpose ofa pv is to smooth out the power band. their will be LESS HP on the pv cylinder of 2 equally ported jugs.

and also its just the opposite, you can run more exhaust port duration but by the way the pv works it actually takes a little top end power off of how a jug would run withought the pv.

[Tom TRX250R]

I would go with the ESR Powervalve cylinder by far, the powervalve alone impacts the decision by helping with low end. If you have ever ridden a p/v cylinder on the track they really help out with smoothing the transition of the powerband and makes the power more usable. Don't get me wrong, Zedicus is right on the fact that you can pull more HP numbers out of a non powervalve motor, but is that cylinder very usable? No, unless you are doing simply drag racing. For MX and recreational riding, you get the best of both worlds with a powervalve cylinder, low end grunt and top end screamer!!! With a powervalve, you can port it more radical with exhaust port duration and still allowing for a more usable powerband whereas for a non powervalve if you do the same porting it will be a light switch on top, and best of luck with riding that on the track. I've done it and it wears you out QUICK!!!!

[WareRacing]

i have the 370 esr PV, can a PV be removed and blocked off?

[Scott270R]

Chris don't do that just trade me for MY 330 and we can both be happy.

[250r4life]

you never said how much the 2nd option could be purchased for...

[250r4life]

also we need to know what exaclty youre looking to do with the bike... mx, dunes, what...

[stever250r]

The second option can be purchased for the same price as the first option.

I will be using the bike for Motocross and Supercross.

[250r4life]

actually you did say how much it was for... my bad, i was just skimming over it... um, the PV would be better suited for what you want to do... i dont know why the owner hasnt pulled the top end off though, thats suspect... but it may just need a bore... course i dont know if it is a nikaseeled cylinder or whatever...

[Meat]

Zed I think we're on the same track, its just that I didnt eloborate enough.

The physical powervalve part does not give you any power, its the ability to run an high exhaust port that produces the HP. I think we all realize that.
Sure, you can run the same high exhaust port duration numbers on a non PV jugg, but your bottom end will be terrible, the power curve will be a "lightswitch", and the engine would only be good for one thing, drag racing. I might be exaggerating a bit when I just described a drag ported non PV motor, but Im tryin to make a point :). So.... both style juggs can run a high exaust port duration, but one jugg will awsome, while the other will be a handfull that only 2% of the public can use, the drag racing guys. And im pretty sure the vast majority of 250r guys are not building drag racers like the Banshee crowd does. So you are correct, you can port a non PV exaust port to put out the same peak HP numbers as PV motor puts out, but not many people want or need that.

The exahust port duration on my powervalved RZ350 streetbike is very similar to a drag ported non powervalved Banshee.

I know you know all this stuff, but I don't want you thinkin' im a dummy who believes powervalves will always put out higher HP numbers. I should have eloborated more on my first reply :ermm:

-denny



Originally posted by zedicus00
MYTH: powevalves increase power.

the only purpose ofa pv is to smooth out the power band. their will be LESS HP on the pv cylinder of 2 equally ported jugs.

and also its just the opposite, you can run more exhaust port duration but by the way the pv works it actually takes a little top end power off of how a jug would run withought the pv.

[stever250r]

Well.. I went with the ESR PV cylinder. Here are the pictures that were sent to me after teardown.

Looks like it can be repaired by having it re-nikasil.

Does anyone know of a good place to have this done??

[stever250r]

pic

[zedicus00]

i see what yur saying but trx9 porting is by no means a drag port. and it is not entirely impossible to run a drag ported engine through trails, the difference being you REALLY hafta be on yur game and no yur quads shift points and power band to run with out a PV. which is the way i prefer it. i think of PV's as an idiot option like ABS brakes and traction control.

as for that cylender are you sure its nikasiled? it looks like an iron sleeved cylender in the pic? is it nikasiled over iron to save it from being bored again??

if you do need it nikasealed check out Power Seal USA and or U.S. Chrome.


Originally posted by Meat
Zed I think we're on the same track, its just that I didnt eloborate enough.

The physical powervalve part does not give you any power, its the ability to run an high exhaust port that produces the HP. I think we all realize that.
Sure, you can run the same high exhaust port duration numbers on a non PV jugg, but your bottom end will be terrible, the power curve will be a "lightswitch", and the engine would only be good for one thing, drag racing. I might be exaggerating a bit when I just described a drag ported non PV motor, but Im tryin to make a point :). So.... both style juggs can run a high exaust port duration, but one jugg will awsome, while the other will be a handfull that only 2% of the public can use, the drag racing guys. And im pretty sure the vast majority of 250r guys are not building drag racers like the Banshee crowd does. So you are correct, you can port a non PV exaust port to put out the same peak HP numbers as PV motor puts out, but not many people want or need that.

The exahust port duration on my powervalved RZ350 streetbike is very similar to a drag ported non powervalved Banshee.

I know you know all this stuff, but I don't want you thinkin' im a dummy who believes powervalves will always put out higher HP numbers. I should have eloborated more on my first reply :ermm:

-denny