LTR 450 vs 3 450r's

[middleman102002]

not tryuing to start anything just thought i would tell you about the fun day i had first about the bikes

1.a 06 LTR 450 with CB and baffles out and airbox lid removed

2.a 05 450r with K&N white brother proseries HRC cam and lid removed

3.a 06 piped jetted but pretty much stock

4.then a 06 450r fully MX'ed with everything


there was 10 races on a 300' strip and was a mix of grass dirt and a little sand

race one 1,3,2,4(bad start)

race 2 1,3,2,4(bad start)

race 3 1,4,2,3(bad start)

race 4 4,3,1,2 perfect race

race 5 same

race 6 4,3,2,1 LTR is qutting on the slowdown and sputtering

race 7 3,2,4,1 Ltr is running very rough

race 8 2,3,4,1 Ltr still messed up and very slow

race 9 3,4,2,1 Ltr running better but bad start

race 10 this was a perfect race and everyone agreed this was the fastest everyone had been all day 4,3,1,2


so yeah the suzuki is fast but i think suzuki might have some tuning problems but the computer seemed to correct it

anyway very fun day and great group of guys the guy on the LTR was my bro

[KWAD GAWD]

I'm confused. Sorry.

[middleman102002]

sorry thought it would be self explanatory i tried to give alot of info because most of the time people post " hey i beat a raptor cool: or something with no info about the race and that always makes me mad so i tried to give all the info i could so you can see why and how the race turned out


the 1,2,3,4 numbers correspond to the bike explained above the race results

then i gave the results from every race and a descrtion of why the person who lost

sorry its confusing i didnt think it would be

[z400clone]

Seems clear enough to me. Note: the LTR is the only bike NOT piped

Also, if the bike is sputtering, the owner NEEDS to take it to the dealership immediately. They are more perfect than any carbed machine

[goldrims04]

this is coming from a honda past 450r owner,my machine was stolin from me 1 and a half months ago had motor work down to it and modified air box and yoshi pipe loved this machine was perfact even a die hard yamaha yzf 450 guy loved it and wanted to ride it me than me i thought that was a wierd thing and i am guy that didnt care what i was on just able to ride so then it got stolen. wasnt happy.... i got the suzuki because i didnt want to get another honda because if itm got stolen again i would be real pissed off. so here it goes right out of the box the suzuki was faster and a die hard honda guy and a real die hard poleris guy said the same... i run XC ..no problem with the width with my tire set up i can go over any thing. just think when more upgrades come out i tihink and this is coming from a past honda that we suzuki guys are going to have the competition behind us.we have the technilogy in our machines fuel injjection,is the key part,a 40$ part adds how much power people that get motor work done spendtons to get what a tiny part does for us. sorry for the long post but i need to vent this and i am sure people will say bad stuff about this post but remember suzuki was on 4 wheels first.and if u dont beleive i rode a honda my advatar is still a shot of my pipe i had on it sorry to post this on this post of yours just the whole racing thing between the honda just got me think but i repect this site so much and to all the guys that help me and give me new ideas how to spend this weeks pay check thanks

[middleman102002]

yeah we called the dealership and my brother mad the mistake to tell them we added the CB and he told them he was racing it well now they wont cover it they say racing and CB void the warranty this kinda frustrates me cause this is supposed to be race ready
but your not supposed to race it or your warranty is voided

also yes the three 450rs where piped but the CB is supposed to add 8 HP also i must say my brother is probably the best drag racer i have ever seen

also when the fully MX'ed 450r won it won by like 3 or 4 quad lengths and the guy sucked at driving

so my conclusion is the LTR is as fast as the 450r and YFZ stock maybe a little faster depending on driver

and it handles better than these 2 machines stock but i have a MX 450r and i must say if your gonna go aftermarket then stock wont really matter to you so i think all three makers have very comparable bikes i think this is a good thing because it will be rider skill that is the deciding factor

[450rJam]

goldrims,
I am confuse, you said you was a honda guy but you bought a suzuki because "if the honda got stolen again you would be pissed", as if you would not be pissed if someone stole your suzuki ?
the suzuki handles better hands down and everyone agree's
but the suzuki is a little underpowered compaired to the other two 450's (yfz/450r)
I am sorry about your quad being stolen.
there is no excuse for low life scum that cant or wont earn their own money for toys.
middleman, maybe if you called a different dealer they may be easier to deal with (another post said one dealer didnt help and another replace a bent axle under warrantee)
I like the ltr's, but IMO they need to do something to the headlight because it looks like a last second add on.

[goldrims04]

ya i didnt mean to confuse anyone but what i meant was time for a change.i love the suzuki better in the woods and mountians ...FOR ME....with my current set up.i still love the honda 450r but to me the ltr handles better and id just a better bike and to me is faster but if my honda didnt get stolin i would be talkin crap to all the suzuki guys cause thats life but honda has quility in their stuff like for example the only thing on the suzuki i found crappy was the tool kit weak.and the nuts and bolts on the machine strip real easy but hands down love the bike and honda will of course always be a great bike...:D

[AceLtz]

Originally posted by 450rJam
but the suzuki is a little underpowered compaired to the other two 450's (yfz/450r)
[/B]

I really think you are 100% wrong right there. It is not underpowered, it is even if you want to say the least. Underpowered, Bone stock maybe, but not when uncorked. Whether you think it is or not. Ive ridden all 3 06s, stock and piped. Comparing them all the yfz and the ltr are faster than the honda. I dont have any bias toward any company but thats the god honest truth. Dynoes from Rossier, KBR, and 3 other independent people also show the hp is above it. The honda isnt far behind or anything but piped vs piped, The honda just isnt all there with the yamaha and suzuki. I still think the honda is a great bike, two of my friends have them and i dont have anything against them. I know you guys are going to get mad but i really dont care. You need to accept the facts. Maybe honda will step it up even further next year.

[CFRacer03]

Originally posted by AceLtz
I really think you are 100% wrong right there. It is not underpowered, it is even if you want to say the least. Underpowered, Bone stock maybe, but not when uncorked. Whether you think it is or not. Ive ridden all 3 06s, stock and piped. Comparing them all the yfz and the ltr are faster than the honda. I dont have any bias toward any company but thats the god honest truth. Dynoes from Rossier, KBR, and 3 other independent people also show the hp is above it. The honda isnt far behind or anything but piped vs piped, The honda just isnt all there with the yamaha and suzuki. I still think the honda is a great bike, two of my friends have them and i dont have anything against them. I know you guys are going to get mad but i really dont care. You need to accept the facts. Maybe honda will step it up even further next year.

well thats weird, most will say that the revamped '06 honda motor is the most fastest stock, dynoes don't mean everything. riding them doesn't always tell you either, I used to have a 416ex that FELT fast as heck, but it obviously didn't even compare to my z450 at the time, which kinda felt slow, but only because the power was so smooth...

Plus, the honda apparently has a lot more potential, a honda is getting the holeshot almost every moto of every national so far. every rider who rides a sparks motor is riding a honda

i'm not saying which one is faster because I haven't personally done drag race testing, but I will tell you one thing, in a real race(MX or TT) more rider skill and suspension is involved considering how closely match these bikes all are in power

[CFRacer03]

oh and to middleman:

it looks like you're riding the #4 bike from your signature and it seems like you claim to have a "bad start" everytime you lose, but then all the sudden when you win its a "perfect race"

[Mike Jones]

My buddy has an 06 TRX450 with an HRC cam, Trinity header and silencer, and an ESR intake.

I pull away from him every single time. Dunes, dirt, asphalt...dead stop, 1st gear roll, 2nd gear roll, 3rd gear roll etc etc etc. I'lll even let him hit it first and I will pull him in and pull away...

The Honda does have a higher top speed because of gearing...he will pull me when Im bouncing of the limiter in 5th but as far as Im concerned the race was over with a while ago.

Im not hatin on the Honda...its a nice bike and like it was said has a lot of potential, but its definately not faster than mine with equal mods(****, he even has a cam compared to my stockers).:ermm:

A lot of the reason Honda dominates professional racing has more to do with Honda's limitless bank account rather than a superior platform.

[need2ride]

i will say this

i owned a 05 honda
ported(sparks)
13:5-1 piston
cam
dyna ign
esr intake
rossier pipe

that thing was scary fast uptop


i put the yoshi on my lt the other day and ran it out on the same road i ran my honda out on felt almost the same to me except maybe the lt hit the rev limiter alittle quicker
witch like stated above is gearing.


just my opinion

by the way i came around and passed a pipe and jetted trx this past weekend on the tt track:D

[450rJam]

the ltr handles better because its wider.
extend the A arms and axle and the handleing advantage is gone
put the cb on and uncork the ltr
put the hrc on the R
now compair them both, price , power, handleing...........
the 450r is not that fast up top (it comes stock with 13 tooth)
the zuki is fast, its real fast but not compaired to the other 2 450's
thats just the quads..........
all that said, the rider will make more difference than an full exhaust system on any of these.
the ltr I rode felt great and the power came on smooth compaired to the hrc R. suzuki does need to pay a little more attention to details for you guys, and the dealerships really need to take care of you better, after 3 years of developement.
zuki is handles (dugh its wide)
honda's motor is better (IMO and it backs what the mags say)
the yamaha is pretty much best of both worlds
I would love to see a shoot-out of the ltr-yfz-r with the standard mods everyone puts on.

[AceLtz]

Originally posted by 450rJam

I would love to see a shoot-out of the ltr-yfz-r with the standard mods everyone puts on.

already done that...as i said. All 3 had full pipe, the honda and yamaha had an intake, my ltr did not. Mnay runs up the hill, the results were the same. Ltr and the yfz about 1 bike legnth apart most of the time and the honda a few lengths behind. al had same tires, with sprockets. You cannot compare adding a hrc cam to the honda, add some cams to the yfz and ltr when they come out. Piped vs piped thats how they come out. Adding a cam is not fair if you want to compare engines.

if your wanting to add the hrc because of the price difference, add it up. the price difference between the ltr and the honda is the suspension. Wider a arms, axle, somewhat better swingarm, and better shocks for sure. the money you pay over the honda is just to pay for those parts.

[450rJam]

ok you must have misunderstood me.
these are the upgrades everyone starts with.
and im thinking something with more exact results
than the owner of one of them commenting on race results that could be slightly missleading or clouded by wishes instead of facts
yammy with GYTR kit
honda with HRC kit
zuki with cb/no lid/no sparky(and what ever everyone is doing)
run them in drags/mx/cc
and post results.
Im not after a controlled group that will result in a honda winner just because I ride red.
I would guess the zuki would rule the mx
I am just stating that shootouts would please ME more if they where compaired with the upgrades most frequently added.
maybe im alone in this thought but seems we would have a more realistic view of what your going up aginst in the real world.

[middleman102002]

"oh and to middleman:

it looks like you're riding the #4 bike from your signature and it seems like you claim to have a "bad start" everytime you lose, but then all the sudden when you win its a "perfect race" "





no i wasnt riding number 4 i was watching my motor is pretty much stock other than pipe jet filter

i was watching because i needed to change my oil

but losing a race could be a combanation of things it doesnt mean you have a slow bike you could be jetted wrong you could be a bad driver you could have had a "bad start" or many other things

and the reason those races where perfect was because no one had any excuses like i had a bad start or missed a shift

i was trying to be very open about this and tell you a cool experience i had i think its awsome a ltr 450 can hang with a fully built motor on a 450r ( well 3 to 4 nike lengths)

like i said i think there all great bikes but if your into racing as much as i am then your stuff wont stay stock long on it so until they make one setup with long travel and nerf bars and antivibe stem and dampner and 50 hp. i dont really care what stock is or that its better than every other maker every bike i get is gonna get LT suspension and motor work so comparing the suz. yam and hon stock doesnt really matter to me and i dont care which one is better

[450rJam]

4 bike lenghts is not close, if I lose by 4 lengths I consider myself smoked/waxed/blown away etc.
just my opinion but anything over 1 full lenght isnt close.
and im not flaming you but the oil change excuse sounds like
your girl friend blowing off a date saying she had to wash her hair
if your going to drop cash for true long travle suspension your replacing the stock advantage the ltr has, so it would make more sense and dollars to buy long travel suspension and put it on a YFZ or an R
I really think the suzuki will be much improved next year with a
full season of owner R & D

[middleman102002]

yeah but if your comparing stock to cammed ported polished blueprinted bigger carb and 470 kit then i think 4 lentghs is pretty good
but granted stock for stock 3 bike lengths would suck

also yeah i understand it sounded like i was being chicken but i have alot of money in my bike and i want it last a while because i dont have the money to replace the engine and all it takes it bad oil to screw that one up beside i know i would have lost

[railroader77]

Hey guys i drag raced a 450r with HRC kit and smoked it by 5 bike lengths. I have a ltr-450 with Dmc pipe, cherrybomb and prodesign pro flowkit with k N. He kept complaning that he couldnt hook up so we went to a few different places with the same results.

[bigH]

okay dirtwheels said honda was the fastest stock......ATV rider even crowned suzuki the ATV of the year (which it is) but they said it suffered in the drags agianst the honda and yamaha.....end of story suzuki needs more powwer but the other 450's need 2 b wider

[bigH]

okay dirtwheels said honda was the fastest stock......ATV rider even crowned suzuki the ATV of the year (which it is) but they said it suffered in the drags agianst the honda and yamaha.....end of story suzuki needs more powwer but the other 450's need 2 b wider

[Ride1Rob]

Originally posted by z400clone
Seems clear enough to me. Note: the LTR is the only bike NOT piped

Also, if the bike is sputtering, the owner NEEDS to take it to the dealership immediately. They are more perfect than any carbed machine


That's the difference between your fuel injection and my carb... You have to take yours to the dealership and be at their mercy to figure out what's wrong with it (May take days or weeks). I take mine to my truck, pull off the carb, clean it or tweak my jetting... I'M THEN BACK TO RIDING ;) . That's the main reason that I don't want fuel injection.

In terms of which bike is fastest... They're all good bikes. Does it really matter if stock for stock one wins by half a bike length? If I had the money I'd have all three and a Kawi when it hit the floor ;)

[yamadjs08]

Originally posted by Ride1Rob
That's the difference between your fuel injection and my carb... You have to take yours to the dealership and be at their mercy to figure out what's wrong with it (May take days or weeks). I take mine to my truck, pull off the carb, clean it or tweak my jetting... I'M THEN BACK TO RIDING ;) . That's the main reason that I don't want fuel injection.

In terms of which bike is fastest... They're all good bikes. Does it really matter if stock for stock one wins by half a bike length? If I had the money I'd have all three and a Kawi when it hit the floor ;) Not nessecarily... All that I have to do is plug in my ecu to my laptop and within a few keystrokes Im done and rejetted... Didnt even have to get my hands dirty... Along with all the different combinations of maps for different ranges of power, low end maps, top end maps, throttle sensitivity snappy or mellow. I can change the rev limiter to what I want, if a friend wants to ride it, thats ok, a few key strokes later the rev limiter is set to 8000rpm and he cant hurt a thing. When hes all done a few keystrokes later and its back up to 11,500rpm.
Not trying to start anything, but EFI does have its advantages, and carbs have a few advantages not many as many though... But I guess if you are real good with carbs and computer illiterate than carbs would be your best bet.:p

Also when it comes to the 3 450's, its all in preference, not one of them is greatly better than the other stock for stock. Or even modded... Just try and get a ride on all 3 and pick which feels most comfortable...

[outlaw450r]

Whoever spends the most money will have the fastest quad. Whoever is the best rider will win most races.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by outlaw450r
Whoever spends the most money will have the fastest quad. Whoever is the best rider will win most races.

yes but the yfz starts off wtih the fastest foundation

[450rJam]

yfz may be the best cross between power and handleing of the current 450's, but it has less power than the TRX and less handleing than the LTR.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450rJam
but it has less power than the TRX

im not trying to disrespect you 450rjam, but ive heard this so many times, and im not sure where people get this idea from. i know the 06 honda is leaps and bounds ahead of the 04-05 hondas, but from everything i have seen and done, it just doesnt add up... i know dirt wheels wrote it, and i dont know if that is where the claim came from or what... i have ridden several of the 06 450s, right after one another, and me and several buddies hopped around from machine to machine, and the yfz was hands down faster... this is all at the dunes by the way...

and im not just a guy who is partial to one brand... in fact, i am a honda guy, have owned my R for several years... i thought the trx450 felt much more like my 250r, and it woulda been great to be able to use all my parts on my new 450, but in my experience the yfz was much faster, had much more top end, and had better suspension, that i had to go with the yamaha... i just bought my yfz 3 weeks ago also... and the honda was much cheaper- even more reason to why if i really had seen the honda was better i would have purchased it...

i dont know where you guys are riding, or who is riding the 450s, or how they are setting them up in other areas of the country, but down around the imperial sand dunes, the yfz is hands down the fastest... stock for stock, baffle and lid for baffle and lid, pipe for pipe...

[motochamp250]

the honda is not really all about raw power....never really was..its more about how the power comes on and the smooth powerband..mch like the dirtbike...it has good torque which is what gets u movin anyways ...id rahter have torque then HP anyday..

[450rJam]

on dirt at the local drag strip, the 450r's consistantly pull the other 450's and 660/700 rappys (usually by a couple lengths)


perhaps instead of calling it power I should call it quickness or
better exceleration.

with just the hrc kit, I am always right up front (Im 215 lbs)
maybe I got a freak, maybe I get lucky alot.

I launch in 2nd, and short shift to 3rd, (at the shift I usually pull a length here), then 4th slowly pulls another. by 5th everyone pretty much holds ground (except one banshee that closes hard)

aginst other 450r's I trade back and forth with the exception of one 05 450r (I know he has some extreme porting, and bolt ons but he wont say much else)
he pulls everyone around here.

this is just my experiences

while im patting my 450r on the back I might as well tell the bad.
the starter is acting up, it wont go into 5th at times, and my tank graphics wont stay on.

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450rJam
on dirt at the local drag strip, the 450r's consistantly pull the other 450's and 660/700 rappys (usually by a couple lengths)


perhaps instead of calling it power I should call it quickness or
better exceleration.

with just the hrc kit, I am always right up front (Im 215 lbs)
maybe I got a freak, maybe I get lucky alot.

I launch in 2nd, and short shift to 3rd, (at the shift I usually pull a length here), then 4th slowly pulls another. by 5th everyone pretty much holds ground (except one banshee that closes hard)

aginst other 450r's I trade back and forth with the exception of one 05 450r (I know he has some extreme porting, and bolt ons but he wont say much else)
he pulls everyone around here.

this is just my experiences

while im patting my 450r on the back I might as well tell the bad.
the starter is acting up, it wont go into 5th at times, and my tank graphics wont stay on.

how many bikes are you racing against? are they the same bikes everytime?

i was referring to quickness and acceleration- i couldnt care less about top speed.

most of my experience is in the sand, and it may be that that top end oriented YFZ can just pull harder than the torquey 450r... but up the hill, over tons and tons and tons of races, there isnt even a question in my mind that the YFZ was faster...

who knows....

[450rJam]

I was talking quickness also, and I dont have much need to do over 80. (any of the 450's can pull over that with gearing)

I didnt do much racing in the sand (I only get down to waynoka once/twice a year) but I did like the 450r over my old 250r there.
I raced my buddies (totally stock) 700 raptor, and took him by more than I normally do on dirt.

where I ride locally there are only 3 ltr's 6 (maybe 7) yfz's and 20+ r's (another 20 or so banshee/250r/rappys that hold their own)

but yes its usually the same people (the drag strip is starting to get pretty ruff also, so suspension is really making a diff lately)

I am putting on my rossier exhaust this weekend and Im hoping
this will be worth an extra length in 300'

there is room to run 6-7 wide but only 2 good lines lately.
usually run 3-4 at a time (I have seen them running 12 wide but its not safe, they end up running in the return drive)

Like I said this is just the outcomes around here, there are more trails than anything, so alot of people run their power low to mid
I have read alot of your posts and have respect for you so Im not trying to argue with you at all, it just seems we have diff experience, (the sand vs dirt may have alot to do with it also)
have a good weekend, this is getting too wordy

[250r4life]

Originally posted by 450rJam


I have read alot of your posts and have respect for you so Im not trying to argue with you at all, it just seems we have diff experience, (the sand vs dirt may have alot to do with it also)
have a good weekend, this is getting too wordy

no no- i dont feel you are trying to argue with me, and im not trying to argue with you... there is a lot of misinterpretation that can happen over the internet...

thats why i said "who knows" at the end...

no worries...