u guys think the next 450r will be efi

[2004400exa]

since susuckie came out with that new 450 thats injected i guys think there gonna make a 450r thats injected to

suzuki.

[DieselBoy]

probably, yes...if they dont and yamaha puts it on, honda will fall significantly behind

[quads14589]

ya they will

[Punk'd]

Yamaha will do it for sure.

You have to hand it to them.. They are always with the competition.

Honda if not first, will most likely follow the other companies when they relize they are losing business.

Honda makes great stuff, but they are usually a little slow with releaseing new stuff.

[quads14589]

i think honda should come out with a bigger ute and a 600cc sport quad.

i bet if they made the yamaha 450 injected honda could steal all the competition by doing something easy, and its not keep up with the 450 technology...they could win over most of the competition if they put a Cr250 motor in a updated trx250R frame...can you say monopoly?:D They would move unbeleiable units if they did that, or better yet have a pdated 250R then have the option of having a 2 stroke or 450 4 stroke motor with the same frame :eek2: :) :cool:

[DieselBoy]

most manufacturer's have no intensions of introducing a new 2-stroke quad, they emissions control is just getting too tight.

[quads14589]

thats a good idea

well pretty much every 07 450cc dirtbike has got efi so i say maybe by 08 or 09 most atv's will have em

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by 2004400exa
since susuckie came out with that new 450 thats injected i guys think there gonna make a 450r thats injected to you spelled suzuki wrong.

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
you spelled suzuki wrong.

No, I'm pretty sure it's spelled Susucki.

[Iliketogofast]

Originally posted by Honda86
i bet if they made the yamaha 450 injected honda could steal all the competition by doing something easy, and its not keep up with the 450 technology...they could win over most of the competition if they put a Cr250 motor in a updated trx250R frame...can you say monopoly?:D They would move unbeleiable units if they did that, or better yet have a pdated 250R then have the option of having a 2 stroke or 450 4 stroke motor with the same frame :eek2: :) :cool:

I wish...

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by Iliketogofast
No, I'm pretty sure it's spelled Susucki. and that just shows how absolutely arrogant you are.

[quads14589]

its all the same thing

[450RGNCC]

Do all of you guys honestly WANT EFI??? Come on, more wiring, much more complicated, more parts, heavier, and if you dao any modification, the ECU has to be remapped, and if you mod with a carb, you just put a new jet in. It would be soooo much simpler and cheaper to just stick with carbs. Just think, if you want max power when you put aftermarket exhaust on, you will have to find someone to remap your ECU, and the last time that I checked, there were very few people around that can do that.

[DieselBoy]

I'm happy with a stock machine, and I definatley want EFI, so no worries in that regard. as far as complexity, i think they are pretty durable EFI systems, and they will probably have code reader's someday soon to bring up trouble codes.

The new LTZ looks pretty badass...

i dont want EFI....i dont want aymore technology at all...i wish i was born in the late 60s

[400ex28]

I'm happy with my carb myself.

[DieselBoy]

if you've messed around with outboards you will know how big of a pain carbs are, and how priceless EFI is.

Advantages:

- ADJUSTS A/F MIXTURE ITSELF
- NO "FLOAT BOWL STICK"
- NO REPLACING "NEEDLE AND SEAT" FOR $50
- NO CLEANING JETS, PORTS, FUEL BOWL
- GOOD IF YOUR MACHINE SITS ALOT: PROBLEM FREE STARTING
- NO "REJETTING"
- Additional fuel efficiency
- And so on.


They have disadvantages, but if you're like me and you want something that is hastle free for the most part you will see the light with EFI, with the exception of repairs, and those should not be alot, EFI systems in vehicles has proven themselves very well.

[400exrules]

Originally posted by DieselBoy
if you've messed around with outboards you will know how big of a pain carbs are, and how priceless EFI is.

boats and atvs cant be compared

[DieselBoy]

they both got carbs.:)

talkn' about the CARBURATOR itself.

I had the coice between carb or EFI snowmoblie F7 and i went with carb because i dont trust the computer when im riding over 50 miles from town on a trip, also i know how to work on a carb...i dont trust that EFI "technology"

Originally posted by Honda86
I had the coice between carb or EFI snowmoblie F7 and i went with carb because i dont trust the computer when im riding over 50 miles from town on a trip, also i know how to work on a carb...i dont trust that EFI "technology"


I guess you like walking instead of driving?

Yamaha is deff. next in line. I'd be supriesed if there wasnt a FI YFZ

[DieselBoy]

so far so good with the LTZ, and raptor 700s, ive not heard a complaint yet...

[badvox]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
and that just shows how absolutely arrogant you are.

No bro you meant ignorant. LOL

[badvox]

Originally posted by DieselBoy
if you've messed around with outboards you will know how big of a pain carbs are, and how priceless EFI is.

Advantages:

- ADJUSTS A/F MIXTURE ITSELF
- NO "FLOAT BOWL STICK"
- NO REPLACING "NEEDLE AND SEAT" FOR $50
- NO CLEANING JETS, PORTS, FUEL BOWL
- GOOD IF YOUR MACHINE SITS ALOT: PROBLEM FREE STARTING
- NO "REJETTING"
- Additional fuel efficiency
- And so on.




Cars are using O2 sensors but as far as I know none of the off road stuff is which means you can scratch the A/F mixture off of your advantage list.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by badvox
No bro you meant ignorant. LOL

1. I am not your bro.

2. arrogant- Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

have a nice day.

but you are right about the A/F adjustments...the offroad bikes dont have that, becuase they are an open loop i beleive, wich means they can not adjust to different air flow without being remapped for more fuel. They can although remap themselves for elevation changes.

Originally posted by Honda86
I had the coice between carb or EFI snowmoblie F7 and i went with carb because i dont trust the computer when im riding over 50 miles from town on a trip, also i know how to work on a carb...i dont trust that EFI "technology"



I guess you like walking instead of driving?

Yamaha is deff. next in line. I'd be supriesed if there wasnt a FI YFZ

^^^no i just prefer to be on something that has been proven to work...would u rather have a new uncertain quad or have something you are used to that you can work on if someting goes wrong?? maybe i am just weird but i alwasy want seomthing that i can work on easy and is proven...in 5 or 10 years if the EFI is going good i might consider it

[PolarisRider]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
1. I am not your bro.

2. arrogant- Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

have a nice day.


PWN3D!

[badvox]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
1. I am not your bro.

2. arrogant- Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

have a nice day.

but you are right about the A/F adjustments...the offroad bikes dont have that, becuase they are an open loop i beleive, wich means they can not adjust to different air flow without being remapped for more fuel. They can although remap themselves for elevation changes.

Damn just trying to make a joke for _ucks sake. It wasnt even directed AT you.

Happy _uckin Easter

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
1. I am not your bro.

2. arrogant- Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others

have a nice day.

but you are right about the A/F adjustments...the offroad bikes dont have that, becuase they are an open loop i beleive, wich means they can not adjust to different air flow without being remapped for more fuel. They can although remap themselves for elevation changes. j00 t0t4lly PWND h1m!!!1!1!1!!!!!!
















































<3

[DieselBoy]

Suzuki LTZ450...

This is what I was talking about:

Suzuki's fuel injection system, (taken directly from their high performance GSX-R motorcycle development) automatically optimizes air / fuel mixture under any situation or condition; including atmospheric pressure, temperature, and even engine coolant temperature.

Since the air to fuel mixture is now controlled by a computer, the guess work of jetting is no longer.

so any significant engine mods will need to be remapped...

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by badvox
Damn just trying to make a joke for _ucks sake. It wasnt even directed AT you.

Happy _uckin Easter well...if you were agreeing with me and calling him ignorant at the same time, then my apologies go too you.

happy egg day:)

[Mxjunkie]

I love carbs my self. I'd rather tune it by hand etc then tune it with a computer, its just more eletrical bs to go wrong..

[DieselBoy]

i hope they are alot like the ones in cars, they were quite reliable from the start. i've just had one too many spits with carbs, but as they're proven I think more people will be convinced they're not trash. HOWEVER, I would like to know what a computer costs for one, and that would be my primary concern. part's for carbs are expensive enough. the linkage cover for a 400ex is $23 :eek2: and is maybe 4x6'' of a pieca' plastic.


anyone know where i can get cheap mudguard replacements for my 400?

[jaredZ400rider]

Originally posted by 2004400exa
since susuckie came out with that new 450 thats injected i guys think there gonna make a 450r thats injected to

uhh its spelled suzuki :D .

[badvox]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
well...if you were agreeing with me and calling him ignorant at the same time, then my apologies go too you.

happy egg day:)

Yeah pretty much in agreement with ya. I just wanted to upgrade your comment to ignorant instead arrogant. :)

I used to own an RM250 way back when and I just cant see calling it a susuckie. It was definitely a bad arse bike.

[TheFontMaster]

I don't want EFI on my quads. Too much wiring to deal with. Go take a look at the ltz-450 and you will instantly know what I am talking about. I know how to tune a carb, I can have it off the quad, and a new jet in it, and have it back on the quad running in about 15 minutes. The fuse box is right on the left side of the motor, shure it may be water tight when it's new, but after a couple years, or a good hit with a stick or rock and water starts getting in everything. I just don't want to deal with that. Shure it's proven. But thats on a street bike. Street bikes are not beaten off road where there is constantly mud, water and rock hitting the quad. I bet that in 5 years or so these so called great EFI quads are going to be hard to sell because there will be problems with the wiring.

[badvox]

Originally posted by DieselBoy
i hope they are alot like the ones in cars, they were quite reliable from the start. i've just had one too many spits with carbs, but as they're proven I think more people will be convinced they're not trash. HOWEVER, I would like to know what a computer costs for one, and that would be my primary concern. part's for carbs are expensive enough. the linkage cover for a 400ex is $23 :eek2: and is maybe 4x6'' of a pieca' plastic.


anyone know where i can get cheap mudguard replacements for my 400?

I wouldn't worry about the computers. If im not mistaken Zuk is using the Keihen ECU which is used in many applications already.
Even the Cannondale ECUs are very strong and very rarely fail.
You'll be messin with alot more before you need to touch that computer for anything or the Injectors for that matter.

[DieselBoy]

yeah how does the cannondales do? they've used fuel injection for a long time, are they pretty durable? that would be a good reference..

[killen them all]

i have a ? me and my buddy were talking in fit and weel and he was saying that efi is not as good as carbs when your bike has a lot of motor mods so my ? is dont alot of racers have alot of motor mods so it would not be very good for them

[DieselBoy]

well if you got the fuel injection set up for it, i don't see why there would be a problem.... but who knows

[Ralph]

Honda does not rush things like efi and other things because they do enough testing so when they do release it, it doesn't set your bike on fire.

Others may do it first, but not necessarily the best.

[400exrules]

i dont want to see full injection in quads unless it is a closed system that adjusts itself, like in a car. i'd rather use a carb then an open system like whats in the ltr450

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by 2004400exa
since susuckie came out with that new 450 thats injected i guys think there gonna make a 450r thats injected to

let me ask you one question??? how can you call them that when they are seriously the best brand out... when they brought the LT-Z400 into the sport, that was clearly the best bike ever made... then honda and yamaha came out with there "race ready" bikes... and suzuki came out with a REAL "race ready" bike... suzuki is always two steps ahead of the compatition...

[Ralph]

Its not that much better, they are all equal.... it all comes down to the rider.

[400exrules]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
let me ask you one question??? how can you call them that when they are seriously the best brand out... when they brought the LT-Z400 into the sport, that was clearly the best bike ever made... then honda and yamaha came out with there "race ready" bikes... and suzuki came out with a REAL "race ready" bike... suzuki is always two steps ahead of the compatition...

lmfao, it works both ways, tell me how suzuki was ''two steps ahead of the competition'' when the 400ex came out, the 250r came out, and the 450r came out...????? please explain

and just so you know, the ltr isnt all that great, its just wider with smaller tires then the other 450s, it is not ''race ready''

[Ralph]

250r, greatest quad from 86-2003 (about??) 40ex GREAT QUAD (99-03)

And where do u think everyone is getting their geometry from for their frames? The yfz450's frame sure doesn't resemble the forever unchanged geometry of the banshee, much more like a 400ex/250r.

HONDA made the mold for today's race quads.

[Hon300ex]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
let me ask you one question??? how can you call them that when they are seriously the best brand out... when they brought the LT-Z400 into the sport, that was clearly the best bike ever made... then honda and yamaha came out with there "race ready" bikes... and suzuki came out with a REAL "race ready" bike... suzuki is always two steps ahead of the compatition...

they may be 2 steps a head, but there 3 steps behind. yamaha and honda came out with 450s in 04. suzuki released there in 06. thats a 2 year diff. sure it may be better to some, but its 2 years late. i dont even know how much yamaha and honda made on there 450s in that period of time while suzuki was just there watching them. honda released its 400ex in 99. suzuki released its z400 in 03. honda already had 4 years or production with it and its still arguably(sp?) better. suzuki waits to release things even longer then honda. kawasaki on the other hand forgot they are supose to design there own atv's and release them.

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by 400exrules
lmfao, it works both ways, tell me how suzuki was ''two steps ahead of the competition'' when the 400ex came out, the 250r came out, and the 450r came out...????? please explain

and just so you know, the ltr isnt all that great, its just wider with smaller tires then the other 450s, it is not ''race ready''

no... its not just that... there not just equal... have you ridden with a new LTR at the track yet? well here let me tell you my experiance with racing a COMPLETLY stock LTR when i was on a 06 450ER with long travel Jannson AXIS, pipe... oh and let me add this... i'm faster then him any day... BUT this day... that bike out handled me, out powered me... and that bike just strait up RIPED my britches off... and you want mt to tell you comething... he got that bike off show room for $6,500 and that full MX 450R... has about 8-9 grand in it(including bike price) to get it to be like the LTR... so untill i race an LT-R around the track and beat it... i give Suzuki 10 thumbs up...

2 reasons right here... from factory

50 inches wide
Fuel injection
bad as$ motor (wopes honda and yamaha)
racing tires
light
low

oh wait... thats more then 2 reasons... those are all the things that kill the honda and yamaha...

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by Hon300ex
they may be 2 steps a head, but there 3 steps behind. yamaha and honda came out with 450s in 04. suzuki released there in 06. thats a 2 year diff. sure it may be better to some, but its 2 years late. i dont even know how much yamaha and honda made on there 450s in that period of time while suzuki was just there watching them. honda released its 400ex in 99. suzuki released its z400 in 03. honda already had 4 years or production with it and its still arguably(sp?) better. suzuki waits to release things even longer then honda. kawasaki on the other hand forgot they are supose to design there own atv's and release them. 3

was the 400ex any good??? no? it wasnt... suzuki was just sitting there? suzuki was making the bad as$ bike you see wopping the honda's and yamaha's you see today...

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by Ralph
250r, greatest quad from 86-2003 (about??) 40ex GREAT QUAD (99-03)

And where do u think everyone is getting their geometry from for their frames? The yfz450's frame sure doesn't resemble the forever unchanged geometry of the banshee, much more like a 400ex/250r.

HONDA made the mold for today's race quads.


i agree with you a 100%... i'm just saying... the Suzuki is clearly the best quad out... and ya'll need to give them probs for making such an aweosme machine and quit being such douche Honda/Yamaha die hard fans...

[400exrules]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
no... its not just that... there not just equal... have you ridden with a new LTR at the track yet? well here let me tell you my experiance with racing a COMPLETLY stock LTR when i was on a 06 450ER with long travel Jannson AXIS, pipe... oh and let me add this... i'm faster then him any day... BUT this day... that bike out handled me, out powered me... and that bike just strait up RIPED my britches off... and you want mt to tell you comething... he got that bike off show room for $6,500 and that full MX 450R... has about 8-9 grand in it(including bike price) to get it to be like the LTR... so untill i race an LT-R around the track and beat it... i give Suzuki 10 thumbs up...

2 reasons right here... from factory

50 inches wide
Fuel injection
bad as$ motor (wopes honda and yamaha)
racing tires
light
low

oh wait... thats more then 2 reasons... those are all the things that kill the honda and yamaha...

k lets see....

50 inches wide - yah, maybe that saves you from buying arms and an axle, but only if you race mx. its way to wide if you want to do anykind of xc racing.
FI - seriously, whats so great about it, its an open system which requires remapping, i would rather have a carb
bad as$ motor - are you sure? from what i hear this thing blows chunks unless you take the lid off, remove baffle, and put on the cherry bomb.......then it is considered equal to the other 450s, stock
racing tires - yet again, only if you race mx (still dont have beadlocks)
light - ok, what 450 is not light?

[400exrules]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
3

was the 400ex any good??? no? it wasnt... suzuki was just sitting there? suzuki was making the bad as$ bike you see wopping the honda's and yamaha's you see today...


are you kidding me:huh ........the 400ex was the only good thing out, too bad it took suzuki 4 years to come out with a 400, that were crackin frames left and right. even though it was liquid cooled, and had reverse for all the grandmas out there, it was never as reliable as the 400ex.

[killen them all]

one bad 400 make good points

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by 400exrules
k lets see....

50 inches wide - yah, maybe that saves you from buying arms and an axle, but only if you race mx. its way to wide if you want to do anykind of xc racing.
FI - seriously, whats so great about it, its an open system which requires remapping, i would rather have a carb
bad as$ motor - are you sure? from what i hear this thing blows chunks unless you take the lid off, remove baffle, and put on the cherry bomb.......then it is considered equal to the other 450s, stock
racing tires - yet again, only if you race mx (still dont have beadlocks)
light - ok, what 450 is not light?

let me get something threw your ear... THAT WAS THE HOLE ****ING POINT IS TO MAKE IS MX READY YOU STUPED MOTHER F*UKNER

1. and to get a honda that wide... thats about 2 grand
2. who gives a crap about bead locks

[JOEX]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
let me get something threw your ear... THAT WAS THE HOLE ****ING POINT IS TO MAKE IS MX READY YOU STUPED MOTHER F*UKNER

1. and to get a honda that wide... thats about 2 grand
2. who gives a crap about bead locks
Enough with the language:grr:

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by 400exrules
are you kidding me:huh ........the 400ex was the only good thing out, too bad it took suzuki 4 years to come out with a 400, that were crackin frames left and right. even though it was liquid cooled, and had reverse for all the grandmas out there, it was never as reliable as the 400ex.

not as reliable? that bike was and is the most reliable thing out... cracking frames? so is the handa and yamaha... if you REALLY ride... you will crack frames... no matter what it is... grandmas????? i'm 16 and i still ride a LTZ400??!?!!!

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by JOEX
Enough with the language:grr:


sorry... :D :D :D he's just makin me mad... i cant stand ignerant people that dont know what there talking about

sorry though.. i'll slow down on the language

[JOEX]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
sorry... :D :D :D he's just makin me mad... i cant stand ignerant people that dont know what there talking about

sorry though.. i'll slow down on the language
Stopping the foul language will be a good start;)

You may want to think about the 'ignorant' argument.......

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by killen them all
one bad 400 make good points

thank you.. lol... you know whats funny??? i ride a 450R... lol.. and these cats are freakin out..

[NorCalRacer]

I have an '05 ATK quad that is basically a rebuilt cannondale. So far, the efi is great. No throttle is needed to start it, no matter how cold. Just bump the starter and the computer controls the idle until it warms up. Several MAPs can be loaded into my ECU such as top end, bottom end, beginner etc. For $300 I can buy a progam to change these maps from my home computer or any dealer can do it. I can also get a "tree" that goes on my handlebars which will hold 3 different maps and deliver them on command. It also reads fault codes.
Bet you carb guys wouldn't mind being able to do all that...:D :D

[Ralph]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NorCalRacer
I have an '05 ATK quad that is basically a rebuilt cannondale. So far, the efi is great. No throttle is needed to start it, no matter how cold. Just bump the starter and the computer controls the idle until it warms up. Several MAPs can be loaded into my ECU such as top end, bottom end, beginner etc. For $300 I can buy a progam to change these maps from my home computer or any dealer can do it. I can also get a "tree" that goes on my handlebars which will hold 3 different maps and deliver them on command. It also reads fault codes.
Bet you carb guys wouldn't mind being able to do all that...:D :D [/UOTE]

im sure its very nice to have but it ceirtanly will not make the avg rider faster.

400exrules. Face it, the Z is better than the EX.

250r-400ex-z400- YFZ- YFZ/TRX- LTR.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
400exrules. Face it, the Z is better than the EX.

250r-400ex-z400- YFZ- YFZ/TRX- LTR.

you rode all of them?

[TheFontMaster]

Everyone that is claiming that the ltz motor is so great, go look in the dyno section. The ltz doesn't make more than a couple horsepower more than ether the 450r, or yfz. Hell my 250r should be putting out more power than that.

Originally posted by Ralph
you rode all of them?

Everyone one but the 250 and LTR. But its not going by how fast one is or w.e. There in order from year. Like in the 80s-90s the 250r was hot shiat then the 400, then the Z, then the YFZ, then the R, and now the LTR is the new hot thing out.

[Ralph]

So ur telling me a 20 year old honda could compete with a brand new lt-r?

Once again, all joking and fueling apart. Its all rider. And drag races dont mean a thing.

Originally posted by Ralph
So ur telling me a 20 year old honda could compete with a brand new lt-r?

Once again, all joking and fueling apart. Its all rider. And drag races dont mean a thing.

Im not talking power wise. Im talking like what was the "hot new thing".

[Ralph]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
Everyone one but the 250 and LTR. But its not going by how fast one is or w.e. There in order from year. Like in the 80s-90s the 250r was hot shiat then the 400, then the Z, then the YFZ, then the R, and now the LTR is the new hot thing out.

Newer doesnt mean better. I think they are all great quads. And happy to see the direction the market has taken.

I just wish the consumers would realize that the quad wont make or break the rider. ATV Mx racing is a sport that has alot to do with how big your huevos are. Ive seen stock 400ex's do 80 foot step downs. The riders were just insane, the less fear you have the faster you will go.

[prepracing]

my guess is honda will wait till 2008 untill they make the 450 EFI, just to give an extra year to get any bugs out of the different 450 engine. Plus I think the 450er needs some work on the starting system before it goes EFI. Then again they may just say the hec with it and make the 2007 EFI. The 2006 rincon is EFI so you never know. I would think the 2007 yfz450 has the best chance of going EFI since the raptor had it this year

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by Ralph
So ur telling me a 20 year old honda could compete with a brand new lt-r?

Yes. You can get a used 250r that is all set for MX for 4-6 grand. And that can have a big bore motor that will have more power than any of the new ones.


And yes Ralph your right it's all rider, and rider prefference.

[JIMTED79]

I have rode the LTR450 and was not impresseed at all. I'll hang on to my honda.

Originally posted by TheFontMaster
Yes. You can get a used 250r that is all set for MX for 4-6 grand. And that can have a big bore motor that will have more power than any of the new ones.


And yes Ralph your right it's all rider, and rider prefference.

I agree that its all rider, i wasnt saying a person on a LTR will be faster then someone on a 400

[Warnerade]

I am honestly ready to call 95% of the people in this thread all complete idiots.

So hey, 95% of the people in this thread, your all idiots.

the z400 was terrible...the ONLY advantage over the 400ex was liquid cooling...and 400ex's didnt exactly run hot in the first place, so eh...i'd say they were about even.....AFTER suzuki fixed the weak frame problem.

The lt-r 450 was MADE for MX RACING, if your going to ***** and gripe about it being to wide for XC...buy a honda, every stock bike is realy made to go right out on the trails, let us racers have this bike.

I rode a YFZ for damn near 3 years, i came out on the LT-R and i could instantly tell it had more seat of the pants power than my yfz with a pipe did, did the cherry bomb mods and it rips now.

To you people complaining about the FI...thats personal preference. I personaly love it...while your float is sticking 5 minutes before the gate drops, and my bike wont start...all i gotta do is find a loose connection and plug it in, while your stuck taking the carb apart while your class is racing.

WHO cares when each company released what..sure everyone wants the best bike to be out the soonest...but do you honestly think each manufacturer is 100% concentrated on quads? hell no...they are all doing their own thing, suzuki did not NEED the release of this lt-r to be competitive....honestly, just look at gust and jones last year...

and 400exrules...im going to single your *** out, simply becuase your ignorant post realy stood out to me over the rest. How can you sit behind your monitor and say the LT-R isnt that great? This thing will out handle a yfz or 450r anyday (yes...i've ridden all 3), the motor, stock for stock, beats the other 2 450s..and after the cherry bomb..it will beat modded 450's all day. (I should know, I have pulled the holeshot on a very well built yfz 450 twice already this year, and he is a much faster racer than I am).

At redbud this weekend, they have a huge tripple that only the a-class quads and above hit...there was only 6 people doing it this weekend, 1 of wich was pro rider Harold Goodman, 4 of them were all A class, with completely decked out YFZ450's..and the last was me, on my basicaly bone stock lt-r...a stock bike hitting the same jump that only decked out YFZ's and 450r's were hitting, pretty impressive if you ask me....the jump is the picture i attached.

and for all of your info, the bike is only 49 inches wide, not 50.

[DieselBoy]

why doesn't everyone quit bashing the god damn LTR's? The bike isn't a bad bike, it looks pretty damn good however i've never riden one, but for the sake of christ dont bash it if you can't back it....

Originally posted by NacsRacer027

The lt-r 450 was MADE for MX RACING, if your going to ***** and gripe about it being to wide for XC...buy a honda, every stock bike is realy made to go right out on the trails, let us racers have this bike.



I agree, I hate when people say that LTR sucks because its too wide for trails. Simple answer, don't buy and MX quad for trails. If I wasn't so impatient I would probably have a LTR in my garage right now instead of the YFZ.

i hate when people say or dont do alot of things...but the LTR is a good bike, s t the 450R and yfz...each company is getting their time to shine and have the hot thing out, yamaha was first, then honda, and now suzuki...next itll probally be yamaha then honda and can u guess the next one?? suzuki! good job... now what really makes me mad is i beleive they have way better bikes or quads that they COULD build but choose not to to they can keep on realesing the HOT THING next years and get your 7 grand once again, its all about business....i beleive the compnays are already looking past the 4 strokes and 2 stroke and looking into rotary motors and what not...that would truly be amazing if they started producing those...i wont buy a new 450 because they arnt even ahead of a 20 year old machine by much...get a nice built R and youll be faster then them all for a fraction of the price...so untill rotary motors come out in like 2025 i wont bother and stll be riding the proven machines, the 250R and banshee are two of the best quads built PERIOD!

Name a quad that is better for decking out in the sand then a banshee?

and Name one that has dominated the track for 20+ years

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
To you people complaining about the FI...thats personal preference. I personaly love it...while your float is sticking 5 minutes before the gate drops, and my bike wont start...all i gotta do is find a loose connection and plug it in, while your stuck taking the carb apart while your class is racing.


Carbs are easy, the stuck float, if you really hurry to fix it could probably have that fixed in 10 minutes or so. It could take that long just to find the wire that cam loose.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by Honda86
i hate when people say or dont do alot of things...but the LTR is a good bike, s t the 450R and yfz...each company is getting their time to shine and have the hot thing out, yamaha was first, then honda, and now suzuki...next itll probally be yamaha then honda and can u guess the next one?? suzuki! good job... now what really makes me mad is i beleive they have way better bikes or quads that they COULD build but choose not to to they can keep on realesing the HOT THING next years and get your 7 grand once again, its all about business....i beleive the compnays are already looking past the 4 strokes and 2 stroke and looking into rotary motors and what not...that would truly be amazing if they started producing those...i wont buy a new 450 because they arnt even ahead of a 20 year old machine by much...get a nice built R and youll be faster then them all for a fraction of the price...so untill rotary motors come out in like 2025 i wont bother and stll be riding the proven machines, the 250R and banshee are two of the best quads built PERIOD!

Name a quad that is better for decking out in the sand then a banshee?

and Name one that has dominated the track for 20+ years I dont see rotary engines ever making it into the atv and bike world...I am guessing you have never rode a 450 if you still think the banshee is up in the top ranks as the best quad ever built...

and font...ok, you defended one of my arguements, what about the rest? and there is still the aspect that i can simply plug mine into a little digital readout from yosh and remap mine in less than a minute, where as tuning a carb can be a serious pain in the ***.

have fun on your 20+ year old fourwheelers.

[hondarider2006]

I think that they will get around to it...by the time other companies already have new quads out. I mean look how long it took them to realize that the 400 needed reverse:confused: Thats a no brainer....so I think EFI will take some time for them to put on the 450.

[250R-Dee]

I skipped a lot of the ignorance in this thread so please excuse me if I repeat something that has already been posted.

As far as cars are concerned, I love EFI but when it comes to ATV's and dirtbikes I will stick with a carb. Why? I do not want to use a generic ROM on my bike/quad after I make upgrades. I would want to tune the IG/Fuel curves myself! How many of you know how to tune EFI computers? I do and it is tedious. You need to be able to datalog information and then make the correct adjustments. Sounds easy right?? Add too much fuel in one area and you'll wash your cylinder or kill the ringlands. Add to much ignition in another area and you'll turn your pistons into lava.

Closed loop sucks if you do not have the means to retune the ECU yourself. The best closed loop system for small changes (air filter & exhaust) would be one with a MAF sensor and an O2 sensor. MAF's are more forgiving than MAP sensors and will allow more leeway to make small changes but they are also more restrictive.

Open + map + good O2 sensor + the ability to make changes = a damn good unrestrictive setup that is capable of making mucho power.

I have been tuning EFI cars for a quite a few years so I do know a few tricks.

For tuning only a datalogger plus a wideband O2 sensor is a must. The normal narrow band OEM sensors are only meant to keep your engine at a ratio of 14.7:1. That ratio doesn't always produce the best power. At WOT on the topside of the RPM range sometimes, depending on the motor, a little richer mixture will produce better power and a cleaner power curve.

Oh yeah! I own an RMX250 and a TRX250R. My 250R is gonna need some serious work to beat my 51+hp (stock horse power) Susucki:eek2:. My RMX250 is ported & piped.

Carbs rule!!!

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
At redbud this weekend, they have a huge tripple that only the a-class quads and above hit...there was only 6 people doing it this weekend, 1 of wich was pro rider Harold Goodman, 4 of them were all A class, with completely decked out YFZ450's..and the last was me, on my basicaly bone stock lt-r...a stock bike hitting the same jump that only decked out YFZ's and 450r's were hitting, pretty impressive if you ask me....the jump is the picture i attached.


Ok lets see what other arguments of yours I can defend.

In this case you pretty much desputed your own argument. Everyone except you was an A-class, or above rider. Shure you were on a ltr, but you also have the SKILL to hit the jump. You put those A-class riders and an LTZ, or a stock, or just piped 450 I'm shure they could still hit it. Rider, not quad.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
and 400exrules...im going to single your *** out, simply becuase your ignorant post realy stood out to me over the rest. How can you sit behind your monitor and say the LT-R isnt that great? This thing will out handle a yfz or 450r anyday (yes...i've ridden all 3), the motor, stock for stock, beats the other 2 450s..and after the cherry bomb..it will beat modded 450's all day. (I should know, I have pulled the holeshot on a very well built yfz 450 twice already this year, and he is a much faster racer than I am).


I can also say that the LTR450 isn't that great. Yes it will out handle a yfz, or a 450r. It's about 4 or 5 inches wider, and sits lower to the ground. You can't expect it to NOT handle better than the other quads. You put wider a arms, an axle, and re-valve the stock shocks and it will handle just as good. Yes it will cost a little more, but the 450r isn't set up for MX like the LTR. As for the power. I said earlier go look in the dyno section. The strongest dyno run with a stock LTR is 40 HP Nothing spectacular. It is just about even or a little behind a piped yfz.

Give me more arguments to defend, and I will.

And yes I will have fun on my 20 year old quad:blah:

[rbgnwa45]

I would like to see a car-like EFI on sport quads. It would appeal to me because I wouldn't need to change the mapping. How dare someone say susucki! My friend has an 04 RM125, and a lighter kid on an 06 RM85 beats the 125. They make super fast 85's, as do all companies. Instead of pointing out the manufacturer's shortcomings, I will point out what we can all agree on: these quads are all fast, nimble, very moddable, and are starting to be stereotyped for different kinds of racing where the trx is trail suited and the yfz/lt-r mx suited. Wheres the beef?

[dober250R]

Didn't nacsracer027 own a 250R??????:macho hmmmm interesting.....

[STEVENJANNA]

To answer the original topic for this thread, I think that at least Yamaha will put EFI on the 450 this year. I love when threads spin into POOH slinging constests, just like the monkey cage at the zoo.:D :D

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by dober250R
Didn't nacsracer027 own a 250R??????:macho hmmmm interesting..... no i have never owned a 250r..beaten many, never owned.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by TheFontMaster
Ok lets see what other arguments of yours I can defend.

In this case you pretty much desputed your own argument. Everyone except you was an A-class, or above rider. Shure you were on a ltr, but you also have the SKILL to hit the jump. You put those A-class riders and an LTZ, or a stock, or just piped 450 I'm shure they could still hit it. Rider, not quad. your right...it is rider, not the quad...but I have yes to see a stock 450r or yfz even attempt it. not saying it is impossible...but stock for stock...this quad is set up the best, by far.


I can also say that the LTR450 isn't that great. Yes it will out handle a yfz, or a 450r. It's about 4 or 5 inches wider, and sits lower to the ground. You can't expect it to NOT handle better than the other quads. You put wider a arms, an axle, and re-valve the stock shocks and it will handle just as good. Yes it will cost a little more, but the 450r isn't set up for MX like the LTR. As for the power. I said earlier go look in the dyno section. The strongest dyno run with a stock LTR is 40 HP Nothing spectacular. It is just about even or a little behind a piped yfz.Besides the handling aspect on the ground, Im talking about in the air. the LT-R handles 10x better in the air, much easier to manuever....and i still dont see how you can sit behind your monitor, and say the engine is nothing spectacular...stock it is almost up to par with a yfz and 450r with pipes and rejetted....now, pay 40 bucks for the cherry bomb, and you got roughly 5 more HP than the yfz who just spent 400-600 dollars or more on a pipe.

Regardless of what the numbers are anyway, I've ridden the yfz for 3 years, they have nothing on a lt-r.

whats realy funny is, the 2 people in this thread who stood out to me, as morons for saying the lt-r is basicaly a "mediocre" quad...have been 2 people I have never cared for. your both morons, 400exrules is just dumb..and font, I'll admit that you know what your talking about, but it seems like you only deal with numbers, statistics..whats on paper...you need to learn when to ignore that stuff, and simply look at the big picture, maybe then you will have a better understanding of things, and not just the statistics.

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
but it seems like you only deal with numbers, statistics..whats on paper...you need to learn when to ignore that stuff, and simply look at the big picture, maybe then you will have a better understanding of things, and not just the statistics.

Good point. A perfect example is Dyno horsepower numbers. You can have 2 quads or MX bikes, they weigh the same, bike (A) makes 45 HP and bike (B) makes 50 HP, funny thing is bike (A) is faster on the track, much easier to ride, revs faster and pulls faster lap times. Dyno's don't tell how fast an engine revs, how well the horsepower that unit makes is put to the ground. There is whats on paper, and what is real.

[400exrules]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
have been 2 people I have never cared for. your both morons, 400exrules is just dumb..and font, I'll admit that you know what your talking about, but it seems like you only deal with numbers, statistics..whats on paper...you need to learn when to ignore that stuff, and simply look at the big picture, maybe then you will have a better understanding of things, and not just the statistics.

good, glad you dont like me, i could care less.....i dont like suzuki and your not gonna persuade me to like them....sorry, i think they're crap

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by 400exrules
good, glad you dont like me, i could care less.....i dont like suzuki and your not gonna persuade me to like them....sorry, i think they're crap wanna do me a favor and prove how ignorant you are one more time? I just cant get enough.

[JIMTED79]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
Good point. A perfect example is Dyno horsepower numbers. You can have 2 quads or MX bikes, they weigh the same, bike (A) makes 45 HP and bike (B) makes 50 HP, funny thing is bike (A) is faster on the track, much easier to ride, revs faster and pulls faster lap times. Dyno's don't tell how fast an engine revs, how well the horsepower that unit makes is put to the ground. There is whats on paper, and what is real.
If you have ever seen a dyno chart than you would know that it shows how fast a bike revs. I do agree that its not that accurate trying to campare two bikes power. And NACSRACER027 do you have a picture of you hitting that jump because the one in the air looks like a honda to me.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by JIMTED79
If you have ever seen a dyno chart than you would know that it shows how fast a bike revs. I do agree that its not that accurate trying to campare two bikes power. And NACSRACER027 do you have a picture of you hitting that jump because the one in the air looks like a honda to me.

He said it was a picture of the jump, not of him hitting it.

[JIMTED79]

Originally posted by Ralph
He said it was a picture of the jump, not of him hitting it.
Gatcha, still want to see a picture if he has it.

[Warnerade]

i have 2 videos of it, it was my gf's first time at a track, so she wasnt realy sure how and where to stand to get the best shots. I could load both up on my myspace if it is that big of a deal to you.

[JIMTED79]

I'm still living in the stone age with dial up so don't worry about it.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
whats realy funny is, the 2 people in this thread who stood out to me, as morons for saying the lt-r is basicaly a "mediocre" quad...have been 2 people I have never cared for. your both morons, 400exrules is just dumb..and font, I'll admit that you know what your talking about, but it seems like you only deal with numbers, statistics..whats on paper...you need to learn when to ignore that stuff, and simply look at the big picture, maybe then you will have a better understanding of things, and not just the statistics.


I never said it was a mediocore quad. All I am trying to do is show people that are raving about this quad being the best thing ever made that it really isn't. Yes it is a great quad. And stock for stock it's set up best for MX. Back to where all this originaly started, I just don't have faith in this quad being reliable in the long run. In 5, 6 years it has prooven to be reliable, then I will give it credit. The c-dales have prooven themselfs, and I would buy one in a heart beat. But I will stick to my 250r that has been prooven to have the best handling chassis, prooven to have a reliable motor, and that has been prooven something that can win and dominate on a track. The thing that I love is that I can go out, buy a 250r almost compleatly MX ready for about 4 grand, drop 1-2000 into the motor, and I will have a quad that can out handle and out power any of the new quads for less than the new ones.

[Warnerade]

if the 250r's were soo good for so cheap...i just think its funny that every year it seems less and less show up for race day.
I am in no way discrediting the 250r...it had its time to shine...that time ended with the release of the yfz back in 04.

difference strokes for different folks i guess

[TheFontMaster]

Because unfortunatly people want to buy new stuff. They buy what they see the pros racing. I would bet that if the 250r's were still alowed in the pro class that you would be seeing them on the podeum. And I know that there are pros out there that would rather be on a 250r.

[JIMTED79]

What about the dirt bikes, when it was about 50/50 on the track before the four strokes took over they were still winning.

the reaosn less and less 250Rs are showing up becasue it is EASIER to be faster on a 4 stroke and the majority of the people now days cant ride like they used to as a whole...how many people ont eh board can honestly say that they can ride a dirt bike, quads, 3 wheeler, snowmoblie and wave runner as good as they can ride a quad? people dont even want 6 gears anymore, everyone wants simple and lazy things...i give credit to those people that can keep up with any 4 stroke on the trails whiel they r on their banshee LT or R...i especially credit those that can/ do still ride the trikes as well

as for me, i am not a pro racer and never will be...i love the clutch work and grabbing gears on my banshee and R...whats more fun to ride a piped banshee or a piped raptor...my banshee makes me smile everytime :D

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
I am honestly ready to call 95% of the people in this thread all complete idiots.

So hey, 95% of the people in this thread, your all idiots.

the z400 was terrible...the ONLY advantage over the 400ex was liquid cooling...and 400ex's didnt exactly run hot in the first place, so eh...i'd say they were about even.....AFTER suzuki fixed the weak frame problem.

The lt-r 450 was MADE for MX RACING, if your going to ***** and gripe about it being to wide for XC...buy a honda, every stock bike is realy made to go right out on the trails, let us racers have this bike.

I rode a YFZ for damn near 3 years, i came out on the LT-R and i could instantly tell it had more seat of the pants power than my yfz with a pipe did, did the cherry bomb mods and it rips now.

To you people complaining about the FI...thats personal preference. I personaly love it...while your float is sticking 5 minutes before the gate drops, and my bike wont start...all i gotta do is find a loose connection and plug it in, while your stuck taking the carb apart while your class is racing.

WHO cares when each company released what..sure everyone wants the best bike to be out the soonest...but do you honestly think each manufacturer is 100% concentrated on quads? hell no...they are all doing their own thing, suzuki did not NEED the release of this lt-r to be competitive....honestly, just look at gust and jones last year...

and 400exrules...im going to single your *** out, simply becuase your ignorant post realy stood out to me over the rest. How can you sit behind your monitor and say the LT-R isnt that great? This thing will out handle a yfz or 450r anyday (yes...i've ridden all 3), the motor, stock for stock, beats the other 2 450s..and after the cherry bomb..it will beat modded 450's all day. (I should know, I have pulled the holeshot on a very well built yfz 450 twice already this year, and he is a much faster racer than I am).

At redbud this weekend, they have a huge tripple that only the a-class quads and above hit...there was only 6 people doing it this weekend, 1 of wich was pro rider Harold Goodman, 4 of them were all A class, with completely decked out YFZ450's..and the last was me, on my basicaly bone stock lt-r...a stock bike hitting the same jump that only decked out YFZ's and 450r's were hitting, pretty impressive if you ask me....the jump is the picture i attached.

and for all of your info, the bike is only 49 inches wide, not 50.

BRAVO BRAVO!!! thank you so much... thats what i've been tring to get threw to that idiots head this hole time... lol i'd also like to thank myself for not being one of the 5% that he called an IOIOT!!! yes...

[Warnerade]

ah well im bored as hell anyway, and the videos would have ended up on it anyway.

they are called "tripple at redbud"...fast forward to about 35 seconds unless you wanna watch about 30 quads just double it. My girlfriend is not the best behind the camera as it was her first time.

www.myspace.com/nacsracer27

click on the video word under neath the main picture next to "pics"

[2004400exa]

i wrote that cause suzki sucks