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10-05-2001, 03:27 PM
Has anyone seen the Nov. ATV Sport?

It has a picture of the new Suzuki 2003 Quadsport Z400, on the top of the cover, and has a large pic and some specs on pg.40. Looks very interesting! Liquid cooled, reverse, hot DR 400 motor.

Hopefully this will help motivate Honda to release a new Hi-po sport quad before we are all to old to ride it! Things are looking good for quad maniacs like ourselves! Competition among the manufacturers can only mean good things for us!

Clint

Guy400
10-05-2001, 03:31 PM
After frantically scanning the Net for these pics I ran upon the Connection. Some dude over there started a rumor that the Nov. issue has the pic of the Suzuki on the front cover. It's now been confirmed by more than one person that there is on Zuk pic on it nor does the table of contents say anything about it.

300exrider99
10-05-2001, 03:45 PM
i just got that mag today. It kinda looks like a raptor with yellow plastic.

Nausty
10-05-2001, 03:46 PM
i'm suscribed to atv sport and I havn't got it yet.

Guy400
10-05-2001, 03:53 PM
So is there actually a new Suzuki on the cover or not? Any details about this thing?

10-05-2001, 03:55 PM
yes there is a new suzuki , it has raptor plastic with a different headlight and raptor tires, suzuki 400cc engine, 400ex look alike shocks i call it the suzuki raptor400ex

10-05-2001, 04:12 PM
Yes it is on the cover, the top of the cover.

Two desert R's are the main cover pic.

The table of contents does say there is an article on pg. 40

Yes it does sort of look like a Raptor.

The specs say it is:
373lbs. Dry
398cc single cylinder liquid cooled four stroke direct over head cam with four valves
5 speed manual trans w/ reverse
49 inch wheelbase (400ex is 48.4, DS 650 is 52")
Dual arm front suspension with 8.3" of travel
9.1" rear travel with swingarm and fully adjustable piggyback shock
12.2:1 Comp ratio (Dont know how that will be on pump gas!)
Ground clearance 10.3" ??? Where the hell are they measuring that from? Obviously not the rear skid.
31.2" Seat height

Is that enough info for ya?

Clint

Guy400
10-05-2001, 04:19 PM
Thanks man, any hint of a release date?

10-05-2001, 04:33 PM
2003 sometime

EX 80
10-05-2001, 05:28 PM
any of you with the mag with the new suzuki , scan it if you have a scanner

Winged Warrior
10-05-2001, 05:52 PM
here it is

EX 80
10-05-2001, 05:56 PM
plastics are shapped like a raptor, they should of thought of something more original.

10-05-2001, 06:03 PM
Our local dealer of suzuki got the papers and stuff all on it today. Doesnt look to bad at all! Had no idea though of when they are suppose to arrive in stores i figured it shouldnt be to long though if he had the papers on it and the suzuki guy that dropped it off gave him a mid 5000 dollar price range for it also

Nausty
10-05-2001, 06:10 PM
little bit better pic;) I don't like it either it looks like all they did was take the raptor plastic, crossed the 400ex fram with a blaster, and it still looks ugly.

Warrioreater400ex
10-05-2001, 08:06 PM
FRESH MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:macho

Guy400
10-05-2001, 08:28 PM
How about we save the performance comments until AFTER the bike gets ridden? It might suck, who knows. But then again, it might kick the 400's ***. I'll wait and see what time brings. It's going to be close to 400lbs. wet but it is using the DRZ400 motor (that's been proven but we'll see what reverse throws in there) running at 12.2:1 compression. I'm just going to guess at being close to 35hp at the wheels. I personally think the Raptor has much more aggressive and better looking plastic than any other manufacturer on the market so I'm glad Suzuki took styling cues from it. Everyone always said that Yamaha missed the boat with their chassis because they came up with there own design rather than using the tried and true geometry of the 250R/400EX. Well now that Suzuki's new frame looks very similar to the Honda's the tunes are changing. "Looks like they crossed a 400EX with a Blaster" and comments of the like sound like insecurity because there could be a new king of the hill. We won't know the handling characteristics until after people get to ride them.

I'm not saying that it's going to be the ultimate but I'm certainly not going to bash it until after it hits the market and some quality seat time is spent on it.

86atc250r
10-06-2001, 12:43 AM
Interesting...

The ground clearance quoted is frame to ground & is very similar to the Raptor and 400EX. This is also how Yamaha specifies ground clearance for the Raptor

The DRZ engine is a good engine. 12.2:1 will be fine on pump premium in this engine, just like the bike. Let's hope they use the FCR, like they do on the DRZ.

If that's the case, this engine will be easy to extract 40hp from. Then we'll just have to hope Suzuki didn't screw up the chassis.

Don't care for the plastic, looks like a poorly executed Raptor, the headlight looks cheezy as well. Oh well... Suzuki was never known for their attractive plastic design.

It's good that there is going to be another choice out there. I especially like that it is a 400 class machine, that's the direction sport machines need to go. It will be interesting to see some detailed pics of the chassis and some measurements. If there are any in the article, I'd like to see them (I don't subscribe to any of the rags).

If Suzuki did their homework and didn't do anything screwy, this thing will put a pretty hefty dent in 400EX sales - then maybe Honda will shoot back with the machine we all want - the TRX450EX-R

If Suzuki is really smart, they'll make things like the control arms, shocks and wheels compatable with Honda (I believe C-Dale has done this) - then it will be an instant hit with people wanting to retire old race chassis's but not lose thier full investment in parts.

86atc250r
10-06-2001, 05:09 AM
Here's some specs I pulled from the connection from a guy who's wife works at a dealership that received info:

2003 quadsport z400
398cc
dohc 4 valve
90mm x 62.6mm bore/stroke
comp ratio 11.3:1
carb mikuni bsr36
dry sump oil system
5 speed trans with rev
22x7x10 front radials
20x10x9 rear radials
holds 2.7 gal
length 72in
width 45.3in
height 43.9in
wheel base 49in
seat height 31.2in
dry weight 380lbs
29mm exhaust valves
36mm intake valves
nickel-phosphourus-silicon-carbide coated cylinder
front travel is 8.3in
rear is 9.1in - fully adjustable

Preliminary thoughts - everything below is opinions from only having seen stats and having a lot of seat time on various machines - only a test ride will tell the true tale - given I was pretty close on my preliminary thoughts of the Raptor, take this for what it's worth....
------------

Sounds like it follows in the footsteps of all other ATV's - fairly seriously detuned. My guess is that it will make slightly more power than a stock EX - probably very low 30's.

The Mikuni BSR is the same carb used by the Raptor - it's a CV (i.e. Piece of CRAP) carb. This carb will make the engine feel dull and unresponsive compared to what it could be, no instant tire spinning throttle response like an EX - more smooth rolling power like a Raptor. They've lowered the compression ratio over 1 point over the stock DRZ and I'm sure they've used a less aggressive cam.

The width/height/seatheight specs all sound very similar to a 400EX, so as long as they didn't screw up the geometry (from what I've seen so far, it looks like they did a lot of copying), it will likely handle similar to a 400EX.

This machine will need all the same mods as a 400EX to develop any real power though. Carb, higher compression piston, cam, and exhaust. So figure on the same amount of money to modify to bring it up to par.

Like I said, as long as they didn't screw up the chassis itself, it should end up being a personal preference thing with the Suzuki's engine having a little more stock and unrealized engine potential & a reverse gear.

I absolutely hate CV carbs though, so for me, the nod still goes toward the 400EX, stock for stock... Too bad they had to go and screw up a perfectly good engine again for the ATV crowd & cause us to have to spend approx $1000 to bring it up to stock DRZ power levels (BTW, a bone stock DRZ puts out approx 36 hp - 39 hp with a good exhaust)....


DRZ Dyno / stock - red trace / exhaust - green trace / ignore the blue trace, unrelated bike (http://www.mcnews.com.au/images/dr400dynocropped.gif)

Leo
10-06-2001, 05:40 AM
anyone that has the article scanned any pics yet?

Leo

86atc250r
10-06-2001, 05:51 AM
There's pics within this thread Leo...

Nausty
10-06-2001, 08:34 AM
yeah if those specs are right the sales are going to be low cause everyone will be sticking with their 400's or raptors. I think they should of definatly used the fcr carb but I can see why they would lower the compression. I just want a race ready trx450ex not detuned and if so very little. If they did that in a 400ex or 250r frame then the 250r would be just a waste of garage space. It is the perfect motor since honda can't use the cr250 motor and the only other motors are the xr's (bla) and the 450f now are xr's arn't so bla in the quad world right now but if you can imagine twice as much hp and not to mension its lighter. Then if honda decides to put a 650 in a quad it should be a turned into something like the bombadier or banshee since honda doesn't have a good dune quad.

Leo
10-06-2001, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by 86atc250r
There's pics within this thread Leo...

LOL.. I must have been asleep at the wheel :)

This dialup is killing me, didn't wait for it to load long enough first time around... c'mon DSL (they are switching our local telephone system over to fiber optic as we speak, so DSL can't be to far away...)

Nausty
10-06-2001, 07:03 PM
we got a cable modem and make sure you tweak it because we got 2 1/2 times more speed out of it. Go to speedguide.net or .com don't remember and go to patches. Be sure to back up your registry and also download the program to make explorer to not take so long.

stocktires
10-06-2001, 09:59 PM
anyone think zuki might sponser a racing team!?!?!?!

RideRed04
10-06-2001, 11:09 PM
Maybe the c-dale scandle is fresh in my mind, but I smell some fake pics. It deffinately looks like a raptor with some tweeking (odd how the headlights have the angled pice between them, shaped just like the raptor's grille. I also find it weird that it has raptor tires, and the same shape front bumper. It looks to have a very high seat hight, and doesnt seem to go with the specs. the shocks seem to be the wrong contrast (they are brighter than the rest of the machine). Just a thought, before you post a for sale sign.

Nausty
10-06-2001, 11:40 PM
doesn't that seem a little bit outlandish to you ridered04 I mean that would probably cost them a lot of money to plan this all out and not to have anyone find out about the scam.

RideRed04
10-07-2001, 08:42 AM
If they did, and it is brought to the attention of the public, they could just say that they wanted to give you an idea of what it would look like.

Nausty
10-07-2001, 10:30 AM
who knows what this could bring if the other manufactures started to make quads to compete with the zuke, We will probably see a 450ex in a few years if we are lucky, maybe a new type of performance fourwheeler from yamaha. Plus I think honda should make their version of a little bit smaller ds650 with there xr650 motor. It could be sweet for a desert quad since the xr400 and cr450f arn't the best motors for the dunes.

RideRed04
10-07-2001, 06:01 PM
I dont think the z400 will revolutionize the industry. It wont replace the 250r, it wont outrun the c-dale, and wont have the reliability or handling of a 400ex. I see it as a replacement for the raptor, well rounded, but not the best at anything.

Guy400
10-07-2001, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by RideRed04
it wont outrun the c-dale, and wont have the reliability or handling of a 400ex. I see it as a replacement for the raptor, well rounded, but not the best at anything. How do you know that? Nobody's ridden the bike yet. How can you speak of it's reliability or handling when NO information has been made public yet. We've already established that the frame looks very similar to the 250R's. The Z400 has the same width as the 400EX but has a .7" lower seat height and is .6" longer. On paper this bike appears to handle just as well as the 400EX, if not better do to it lower seat height (resulting in a lower center of gravity). It's too early to say exactly what this bike will do and it's definitely too early to start saying what it can't do. Sounds like someone might be a little insecure because they just bought a new EX and now there might be a contender to the throne.

stocktires
10-07-2001, 06:16 PM
I do belive the z400 has alot of potential with the drz400 liquid cooled motor as of now its got my vote! I wanted a 400ex but there underpowered for the nationalS and the 400ex was air-cooled! If I put $3-4000 into the z400 its gonna ROCK!!!! :devil

Nausty
10-08-2001, 06:14 PM
yeah but big-bore kits, pipes, a-arms, cams, won't be out for a long time.

Guy400
10-08-2001, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Nausty
yeah but big-bore kits, pipes, a-arms, cams, won't be out for a long time. Wrong ,they were out almost instantly for the 400EX. The aftermarket was already well along (in terms of exhaust and suspension) for the Raptor's release also. Don't worry, the exhaust companies will be ready.

stocktires
10-08-2001, 07:11 PM
u can already get the z400 ported, bored .80 over, ported & polished, 39 fcr carb, & cam cuz of the drz motor! Im just gonna wait a while till DW says what they thing bout it!

Taco
10-08-2001, 07:32 PM
http://www.suzukicycles.com/sr_02/atv/bp_quz400.htm

Guy400
10-08-2001, 07:43 PM
Looks like Suzuki did what the Honda faithful said Yamaha should've done, copy the 250R/400EX frame. This was the first good pic of the side that I've seen. Look like a Honda frame?

Nausty
10-08-2001, 08:00 PM
The subframe even looks like its from a 400ex along with the brake light, bars under the front motor mounts, shock color, handle bar cross plastic thingy, bumper, rims, hubs, tires, width, swingarm length, ect.

stocktires
10-08-2001, 08:20 PM
tires are raptor tires and everybody uses aluminum wheels!

RideRed04
10-09-2001, 03:02 PM
The rims on that think look like crap! I bet they will bend in the area where it gets really close to the tire.

Nausty
10-09-2001, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by 1986trx250r
tires are raptor tires and everybody uses aluminum wheels!

Your saying those tires don't look like the o****o tires or whatever they are called?

stocktires
10-09-2001, 07:08 PM
They kinda do, But take a GOOD look at the raptor tires and tell me thats not the same tread pattern!

10-09-2001, 07:40 PM
- The damn frame looks exactly like a 400EX's
- The tires are the Dunlop Radials from the Raptor
- The plastic looks like yellow Raptor plastic
- The swingarm (POS) is the same from old QR's

Good to see Suzuki's R&D dept bothered to come up with original designs for all these things. Wonder what else they cut corners on when it came to R&D for this quad...

Heck, I'm thrilled Zooki is back in the game, but damn, Maybe the quad should have been called a Z-Raptor-400-EX

Tommy 17
10-09-2001, 07:49 PM
the tires are the same as the raptor they are dunlops. i like the colors of that quad haha. umm if u ask me it looks like they took a 400ex frame shocks bumpers put raptor plastic and tires on it with a ds 650 head light and stuff. i like how it has reverse too hint hint honda.... i hope honda makes the450ex soon wit a cr450 engine not tuned down. anyways this is y i was postin i was reading a mag today and stupid me forgot to look at the name but anyways the showed the engine and spy photos of the new kawi quad. it had 400ex rear plastic banshee front and dual exaust that look like there were made by fmf. they had a picture of a cut away v twin motor that they said will be put into the quad so i say look out suzuki and honda and yamaha... i don't like kawi but hope they make the new majav good and mayb this will make honda step it up again.

stocktires
10-09-2001, 08:00 PM
Were the LT frames that bad? Because thats the main thing im worried about! I'm gonna put major bucks into the next bike i buy, i wasnt planning on getting an aftermarket swingarm but i'll get on if the Z's swingarm SUCKS! If suzuki did as much coping as we thing the frame should be pretty good! Im glad they copied the R/EX frame! What? you wanted something like a raptor or banshee or some other frame thats not nearly as good? so why ya bashing em? Well i know the chain adjustment sucks but well can all make due with it! We due without reverse on the 400ex, but that only makes it lighter!!! So former LT riders, was the frames that bad or not?

Guy400
10-09-2001, 09:23 PM
As a past owner of 3 LT250R's, yes, the frames were weak on a professional racing level. For the majority of other sport riders the frames were fine. The weakness wasn't in the materials used or the welds. The weakness was in the design. Now that they've copied the Honda design we still want to bash the Suzuki frame. Has anyone actually ridden this quad to be able to tell for certain? Am I the only one that's heard the phrase "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? Why is it a bad thing that Suzuki R&D copied the Honda frame so closely? But because it's not a Honda we'll all bash it. Were we all this upset when Honda basically copied the 250R frame for the 400EX rather than developing an entirely new one?
Look at the swingarm, they've boxed it. Boxing is an excellent technique to strengthen. The swingarms were never a problem with the Zuk's, why should we just assume that this one will be? The 250R and 400EX swingarms are notorious for breaking. Why don't threads get started that talk about how big a POS that design is. Because it's a Honda and we're all supposed to just think that it's the best. The chain adjustment is harder on this unit than on Honda's, can't argue that one. You can adjust the chain on the Honda in 3 minutes tops. On the Suzuki it will take you 6 minutes:rolleyes: Here's my question for everyone. How many times do you tighten your chain a month? I'd say once every 2 months max. Some of you people are so busy that you can't take an additional 3 minutes every 2 months to adjust a chain? There was never an issue with the strength of the bearing carrier, just that it was more difficult to adjust.

So the tires are the same as on the Raptor. They're the best stock tires to date! Suzuki would be stupid not to use them. Should they've thrown a set of old Cheng Shin Knobbies on it just because someone else's already using them? Uh-oh, in F1 Team Ferrari uses Bridgestone tires. McLaren Mercedes also uses them. McLaren's R&D department scares me because they can't come up with their own tires. Wonder what other shortcuts they're taking?

-Honda used an already existing XR400 motor
-Honda used a frame they already had
Did Honda's R&D department take a shortcut? No, they went with the formula that works, and works well. Zuk's R&D department sat down and said, "What's the best handling quad of all time? Honda 250R, we'll copy that frame. What's the best looking plastic on the market? Raptor, we'll mold ours after that and make our own tweaks. What are the best sport tires on the market? Dunlop radials, we'll use them. What engine do we currently produce that's reliable and makes great HP? Our DRZ400, we'll use that." Now you can hate them for copying but I'm glad they made an attempt to take all the best attributes of several different quads and wrap it all up in one package.

10-10-2001, 06:41 AM
Woah! Guy...settle down. We're all on the same team, bud.

Look at my thread "Good 'n Bad" in this forum before you assume that I'm JUST bashin Suzuki's R&D...

Damn man, look at the bigger picture...like I said, I'm thrilled Zuki's back into it. They're just not 100% back into it. Neither is Honda (yet), neither is Kawi (at all, yet). However, Yamaha has ALWAYS had the balls to make screamin ATVs. Also, Bombardier and Cannondale are newbies that put 100% into R&D....but...

The Japanese manufacturers are scared to get another black eye from becomming competetive in the hi-perf./sport ATV market again. Thus, they spend very little in R&D, cause they think they will just get burned again...it is going to take a long time to see truly unique designs, aimed at squashing other quads....like they used to in the 80's.

For now, we get easy to make, existing technology products. Patience.