one fed up american

[tat900]

I'M HEADED TO MEXICO

Dear President Bush:

I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I
would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border
from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements.
I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas
and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on
my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need,
whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole
at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to
government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car,
and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or
negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never
say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for
all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox
won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting
with your V.P.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

Sincerely,
One FED UP American

[450r51]

amen to that!

[416exfreak]

FO REAL MAN!!!!!!!!:blah:

[honduh440]

maybe we do have a bad president but people like you arent helping a daym thing

[wheelinforlife]

Too many damn foreigners!!!!!!! This is going to be a big problem in the future!!!

[tat900]

Originally posted by honduh440
maybe we do have a bad president but people like you arent helping a daym thing

why cause i posted a letter that was sent to bush

[honduh440]

yes

[Matt400ex_17]

DITO on that!! I live in Michigan you know suppose to be the motor city well I cant find a good job for **** but you can walk in and out of any auto factory and be damned to see 30 mexicans getting into a chevy suburban that work there. My dad has worked for fords for 27 years and he couldnt get me in there to save my his life but he tells me that them *******s are hired on a weekly basis. will work for nothing, dont want health care, and good for the enviroment casue 90 of them live and drive together!!!!!!!!!!! B/S keep up the good work bush and while i go to job interviews i pay $2.55 a gal. to arab that owns the gas station and dont pay taxes which are included in the price per gallon. I think im moving to Canada!!!!!!!!!!

[MOFO]

Funny....

Unless you are Native American (Indian for the uneducated), YOUR family came from another country as well at some point. I understand some of the points, but you can not just close the borders!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Matt400ex_17
I think im moving to Canada!!!!!!!!!!



See ya!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by wheelinforlife
Too many damn foreigners!!!!!!! This is going to be a big problem in the future!!!


Are you Native American?

[Ralph]

Originally posted by wheelinforlife
Too many damn foreigners!!!!!!! This is going to be a big problem in the future!!!

IGNORANCE, This whole country is made up of foreigners. Unless you are an Nativr american person someone in ur ancestry was a foreigner.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by MOFO
Are you Native American?

read my mind

[bansheeguy77]

Originally posted by MOFO
Are you Native American?

i think the point of this is not to stop people from coming into the country....what it is about is stopping the ILLEGAL border jumping. foreigners piss me off just as much as anyone...but it is their right to be here (sadly) just as much as it is ours...thank the democrats for us not having english as our language. what i have a problem with are the people like that stated in the letter...who are here illegally....i was actually looking into becoming a border patrol officer...would be kinda a fun job...only spanish i kno is yo quero taco bell

[MOFO]

Originally posted by tat900


1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need,
whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole
at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to
government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car,
and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or
negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never
say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.



1) I'll pass on the free medical care. I'll gladly pay for my own and have superior health care.

2) Never had a problem finding ANY gov't offical that did NOT speak english.

3) Never found a US Gov't form that was not printed in English.

4) The entire school system I went through, I never had a teacher that did NOT speak english.

5) Never had an issue not getting American History in school.

6) I fly the American flag in front of my house and never had ANYONE complain.

7) If I had kids, I'm sure they would recieve proper lunches...etc. If not, they would pack their lunch.

8) No problems with this one...

9) This is illegal for ANYONE - if you live here or not. If your a citizen, you must obey all laws. They do not bend for anyone.

10) All law officers speak english.

11) Every year we have a HUGE 4th of July party. NEVER had a problem.

12) You dont want to pay taxes? Or want to pay less? You better not vote Democrat...

13) Never had issues here...

Guess what country I described... the one you want to leave. :rolleyes:

[troutman561]

Yes, lets ship all the mexican and other central american people back, and before we know it, houses wont be getting built as fast, the landscaping of lots of houses and cities will not be taken care of, and there will be relativly less sanitation workers all because most people born into the United States wont do these jobs for minimum wage or less because they think they are too good for it, even if they dont have an education, but oh wait, they just get welfare. Personally i'd rather have mexicans who are some of the hardest workers you will meet who will work and do the job other people wont, rather than have the people who sit on their A** and collect welfare.

Some immigrants are a drain, but alot less than Tyrese with 25 kids all from different women or Billy Bob with a farm in his front yard who collect welfare and do nothing.

[300exHONDARIDER]

I gotta believe that bigotry and racism arent gonna be the solution.
Unless youre an american indian....youre a foreigner too.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by bansheeguy77
i think the point of this is not to stop people from coming into the country....what it is about is stopping the ILLEGAL border jumping. foreigners piss me off just as much as anyone...but it is their right to be here (sadly) just as much as it is ours...thank the democrats for us not having english as our language. what i have a problem with are the people like that stated in the letter...who are here illegally....i was actually looking into becoming a border patrol officer...would be kinda a fun job...only spanish i kno is yo quero taco bell


Now this is an entirely different issue. Coming to this country illegally and not becoming a legal US Citizen is wrong. Most of the posts in here are blanket statements basically wanting to close our borders.

I agree, something needs to be done about illegal border jumping. I find it funny that soo many people want to leave the country.

[450r51]

Originally posted by Ralph
IGNORANCE, This whole country is made up of foreigners. Unless you are an Nativr american person someone in ur ancestry was a foreigner. .

this is not a good arguement!

native americans did not start in america they originated in russia and migrated here. this can be used for everyone in the world.

and i consider myself not to be a foreigner, if you are born in america, you are american, regardless of your ancestry.

it is not right that we have to conform to the ppl who want to live in america, its not our fault they cant speak english or read it. they should have literacy tests for ppl who want to immigrate. if you cant read, write or speak english you do not come into this country!

[Ralph]

Originally posted by bansheeguy77
i think the point of this is not to stop people from coming into the country....what it is about is stopping the ILLEGAL border jumping. foreigners piss me off just as much as anyone...but it is their right to be here (sadly) just as much as it is ours...thank the democrats for us not having english as our language. what i have a problem with are the people like that stated in the letter...who are here illegally....i was actually looking into becoming a border patrol officer...would be kinda a fun job...only spanish i kno is yo quero taco bell

Im a foreigner. So u dont like me cause i wasnt born here. Well excuse me, if u had the chance to have possible better life in a different country you would probably go too.

Now it turns out we would have been off much better in germany but we like this place. So im staying.

[bansheeguy77]

Originally posted by MOFO
Now this is an entirely different issue. Coming to this country illegally and not becoming a legal US Citizen is wrong. Most of the posts in here are blanket statements basically wanting to close our borders.

I agree, something needs to be done about illegal border jumping.

ok good....i had the gloves laced up too haha....i thought that was what the whole "letter" was about...the illegal ones not the legal ones....there have been some vague and ignorant statements made i agree....but ya gotta consider the source :p

[Pappy]

LMAO...i was just getting ready to ask why anyone would want to leave:p



12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws

Nice job....last time I checked there werent too many middle class white boys looking to push a broom or tote a shovel...hell even the blacks find that beneath them these days..

Anyone remeber what I qouted from awhile ago....

"You do not want to pick your fruit, we will pick your fruit"
"You do not want to dig ditches,we will dig your ditches"
"You do not want to cut your lawns,we will cut your lawns"

I agree with not letting illegal immigrants have free reign....but you will let them in to do the jobs your unwilling to fill. Fill the jobs lazy americans or illegal mexicans will take them. and i do say lazy....we are too "GOOD" to do most of the jobs they are willing to preform.(we would rather sit back on unemployment:o )

[bansheeguy77]

Originally posted by Ralph
Im a foreigner. So u dont like me cause i wasnt born here. Well excuse me, if u had the chance to have possible better life in a different country you would probably go too.

Now it turns out we would have been off much better in germany but we like this place. So im staying.

ralph...you still have that sand stuck in there about this topic dont ya? are you illegal? no im sure you and your parents came over here legally...the foreigners i was speaking about were mostly of arab decent....and the ones i dont like are the arrogant ones n such...i have friends who are arab....the guy who owns the mini mart i go to....hes a great guy we talk every now and then...cant understand a lick of english he says but i smile and say have a nice day to him every time.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by 450r51
.
it is not right that we have to conform to the ppl who want to live in america, its not our fault they cant speak english or read it. they should have literacy tests for ppl who want to immigrate. if you cant read, write or speak english you do not come into this country!


I agree this is true. But some people are so ignorant saying how they hate foreigners coming into this country(Legally) when their grandparents, the reason they are here now, probably came here from a diff country.

I know this is about illegal immigrants but this is just one of my buttons. Also, but yourselves in their shoes, or lack of. If your life sucked and u had the chance to run across a border and make good money to send home to mexico then u would do it too. Survival of the fittest. Not saying its right but i bet 99% of us would do the same

[450r51]

I know this is about illegal immigrants but this is just one of my buttons. Also, but yourselves in their shoes, or lack of. If your life sucked and u had the chance to run across a border and make good money to send home to mexico then u would do it too. Survival of the fittest. Not saying its right but i bet 99% of us would do the same [/B][/QUOTE]


yes i would do the same thing. this is why our border patrol should be alot better then it is. you would think with all the technology we have, we would solve this problem.

**** dig a giant *** trench along our entire border, make the fence electric, do something to keep illegal aliens out!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Pappy
LMAO...i was just getting ready to ask why anyone would want to leave:p



12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws

Nice job....last time I checked there werent too many middle class white boys looking to push a broom or tote a shovel...hell even the blacks find that beneath them these days..

Anyone remeber what I qouted from awhile ago....

"You do not want to pick your fruit, we will pick your fruit"
"You do not want to dig ditches,we will dig your ditches"
"You do not want to cut your lawns,we will cut your lawns"

I agree with not letting illegal immigrants have free reign....but you will let them in to do the jobs your unwilling to fill. Fill the jobs lazy americans or illegal mexicans will take them. and i do say lazy....we are too "GOOD" to do most of the jobs they are willing to preform.(we would rather sit back on unemployment:o )


EXACTLY!!!

[Ralph]

and im not stuck on it, you post something expect a reply

"foreigners piss me off just as much as anyone...but it is their right to be here (sadly) just as much as it is ours..."

That ^^ concerns all foreigners. Be more specific if u mean something else

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by Pappy
LMAO...i was just getting ready to ask why anyone would want to leave:p



12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws

Nice job....last time I checked there werent too many middle class white boys looking to push a broom or tote a shovel...hell even the blacks find that beneath them these days..

Anyone remeber what I qouted from awhile ago....

"You do not want to pick your fruit, we will pick your fruit"
"You do not want to dig ditches,we will dig your ditches"
"You do not want to cut your lawns,we will cut your lawns"

I agree with not letting illegal immigrants have free reign....but you will let them in to do the jobs your unwilling to fill. Fill the jobs lazy americans or illegal mexicans will take them. and i do say lazy....we are too "GOOD" to do most of the jobs they are willing to preform.(we would rather sit back on unemployment:o )


raise a family on a DITCH DIGGERS salary.

[bansheeguy77]

Originally posted by Ralph
and im not stuck on it, you post something expect a reply

"foreigners piss me off just as much as anyone...but it is their right to be here (sadly) just as much as it is ours..."

That ^^ concerns all foreigners. Be more specific if u mean something else

we were on the topic of the mexican border...so i thought it was assumed those were the foreigners we were speaking.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by fatkid400
raise a family on a DITCH DIGGERS salary.

Work harder, educate yourself and find a better job. Nothing is just handed to you in life!

Plenty of people in our country have gone from nothing to become very successful!

I guess your the type that expect uncle sam to take care of you or give you a better job. :rolleyes:

[440racer66]

Originally posted by honduh440
yes

wow what a idiot well i think that what we need is a little heathy protest

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 440racer66
wow what a idiot wel i thik that thats what we need a little heathy protest

I just read your post (attempted to read) and your calling someone else an idiot? Wow...

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by MOFO
Work harder, educate yourself and find a better job. Nothing is just handed to you in life!

Plenty of people in our country have gone from nothing to become very successful!

I guess your the type that expect uncle sam to take care of you or give you a better job. :rolleyes:

I'M AM SKILLED LABOR!! I'M A JOURNYMAN TOOL AND DIE MAKER!!

uncle sam hands out more sh%$ to mexicans then they do to starving AMERICANS THAT LOST THIER JOBS TO MEXICANS:mad: AND THOSE STARVING AMERICANS ARE STILL PAYING TAXES THAT DO THEM NOTHING IN RETURN.

look at whats going on around you instead of listening to 1 sided media and playing PS2 all day.

[honduh440]

Originally posted by 440racer66
wow what a idiot well i think that what we need is a little heathy protest

their is a reason why your not able to vote

Originally posted by honduh440
their is a reason why your not able to vote
lmfao


although a agree with 2-3 of the things on that list,

Bush cant stop this, and bashin him doesnt help him, when he has other ppl to help him out, so why do ppl always blame it solely on him?

anyways, i dont wanna see this, but i would like to see how a democrat president would do in this situation, and see how he would react if the republicans were constantly bashing...

[Pappy]

Originally posted by fatkid400
I'M AM SKILLED LABOR!! I'M A JOURNYMAN TOOL AND DIE MAKER!!

uncle sam hands out more sh%$ to mexicans then they do to starving AMERICANS THAT LOST THIER JOBS TO MEXICANS:mad: AND THOSE STARVING AMERICANS ARE STILL PAYING TAXES THAT DO THEM NOTHING IN RETURN.

look at whats going on around you instead of listening to 1 sided media and playing PS2 all day.

lots of truth in this....except the personal attack on Mofo....he doesnt play PS2 all day:p


the sad part is, uncle sam sends OUR money all over the world while we have suffering americans that need assistance HERE. i wouldnt classify all your anger towards the mexicans, they dont get but a small amount of OUR charity.

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by MOFO
Now this is an entirely different issue. Coming to this country illegally and not becoming a legal US Citizen is wrong. Most of the posts in here are blanket statements basically wanting to close our borders.

I agree, something needs to be done about illegal border jumping. I find it funny that soo many people want to leave the country.

This is what tat900 is talking about!! illegal immigrants do not pay taxes but they get gov't funding ie free health care,wellfare, and other aid for there american born childeren.which they illegally "hopped the fence" to have the baby on American soil for the "goodies " are goverment hands out.If your born on American soil you are automaticly an American citizen,no matter where your parents come from.

I to have no problems with people coming to America for a "better life" but do it legally!! AND LEARN ENGLISH!!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by fatkid400
I'M AM SKILLED LABOR!! I'M A JOURNYMAN TOOL AND DIE MAKER!!

uncle sam hands out more sh%$ to mexicans then they do to starving AMERICANS THAT LOST THIER JOBS TO MEXICANS:mad: AND THOSE STARVING AMERICANS ARE STILL PAYING TAXES THAT DO THEM NOTHING IN RETURN.

look at whats going on around you instead of listening to 1 sided media and playing PS2 all day.

Ummmm.... so do you dig ditches or not?

Again, if your job is not giving you what you need, you need to change - DONT expect the gov't to support your lazy arse!

BTW, I dont sit around and play PS2 all day... I have a very good job, I'm well educated for my line of work and I've worked my arse off for what I have today. No complaints here! I adjusted my education and skills to support myself and family very well. Right now I'm in line for a fairly large promotion... no handouts here. I worked my butt off, educated myself and I'm now seeing the results! NO help from Uncle Sam... just my own modivation to do well!

Sure sounds like you can't say the same if your worried about ditch diggers? Not that being a ditch digger is a bad thing, but if you only plan on being a ditch digger, dont complain about not being able to afford the fruits in life!

At the end of the day they ONLY person you can blame is YOURSELF!

[Honda TRX250ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
lots of truth in this....except the personal attack on Mofo....he doesnt play PS2 all day:p


the sad part is, uncle sam sends OUR money all over the world while we have suffering americans that need assistance HERE. i wouldnt classify all your anger towards the mexicans, they dont get but a small amount of OUR charity.
I think the American people need to have a good talk with Uncle Sam...

[Pappy]

Originally posted by fatkid400
raise a family on a DITCH DIGGERS salary.

if you are educated you wont have to dig ditches now will you?

funny, my dad was never wealthy, never highly educated and never in his life made over $30K a year, yet managed to raise our family.


whats the going rate for day labor, or a startung salary for a carpenter these days....the later alot higher then $30K a year

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by Pappy
lots of truth in this....except the personal attack on Mofo....he doesnt play PS2 all day:p


the sad part is, uncle sam sends OUR money all over the world while we have suffering americans that need assistance HERE. i wouldnt classify all your anger towards the mexicans, they dont get but a small amount of OUR charity.

I realize this pappy,foriegners then. And Mofo stop sitin around watching the steelers kick the crap out of the browns! LET ME DO IT:D

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Honda TRX250ex
I think the American people need to have a good talk with Uncle Sam...


Copy and pasting bulk e-mails - such as the one posted to start this thread will get NOTHING done.

Get involved with your local gov't, go out and vote! *****ing on the internet will get your nowhere!

[Pappy]

i think one of the biggest failures on our government was not informing people thier"skill or trade" would be disappearing. i know alot of folks that lost thier job/career simply because thier"trade" is no longer needed. we have a good percentage of our workforce that doesnt know anything more then 1 thing....that has to change.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by MOFO
Copy and pasting bulk e-mails - such as the one posted to start this thread will get NOTHING done.

Get involved with your local gov't, go out and vote! *****ing on the internet will get your nowhere!



but why, its the "lazy" way to get things done:p


and noone gets involved, why? because then you have to listen to those that are too lazy to get involved b!tch:D

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Pappy
i think one of the biggest failures on our government was not informing people thier"skill or trade" would be disappearing. i know alot of folks that lost thier job/career simply because thier"trade" is no longer needed. we have a good percentage of our workforce that doesnt know anything more then 1 thing....that has to change.


Been there, done that. My old company decided one day they are cutting out our field support role in our industry....my job was based on this. I saw a positive in this and blamed no one for it... I saw it as kick in the butt to do better.

I went out and educated myself for the current position I have today...but I was not happy with just doing the minimum. I went up and beyond what was asked of me, continued to learn as much as I could (not required) and I'm now seeing the results.

I think this is the biggest problem in our work force. Too many people do just enough work not to loose their job. There is no modivation to do better or strive for a better life. Everyone today just opens their hand and asks for more.

...but hey, what do I know... I just play PS2 all day. :rolleyes:

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by MOFO
Ummmm.... so do you dig ditches or not?

Again, if your job is not giving you what you need, you need to change - DONT expect the gov't to support your lazy arse!

BTW, I dont sit around and play PS2 all day... I have a very good job, I'm well educated for my line of work and I've worked my arse off for what I have today. No complaints here! I adjusted my education and skills to support myself and family very well. Right now I'm in line for a fairly large promotion... no handouts here. I worked my butt off, educated myself and I'm now seeing the results! NO help from Uncle Sam... just my own modivation to do well!

Sure sounds like you can't say the same if your worried about ditch diggers? Not that being a ditch digger is a bad thing, but if you only plan on being a ditch digger, dont complain about not being able to afford the fruits in life!

At the end of the day they ONLY person you can blame is YOURSELF!

You must not be very educated if you dont know the difference between a ditch diggers salary and a die makers,Much less the education involved in becoming a journeyman die maker.
And lets see what you say when a foriegner takes your job you worked so hard to get just because he'll do it for alot less then you and your be diggin ditches to pay off your education you dont need anymore.

[Pappy]

i agree, but i also know some folks just dont see the writing on the wall....just like some bush bouncer doesnt see the lion in the grass yet he knows full well its there:p


im going the other way, ive worked extremely hard to get what i have, i just arranged some refinancing to better manage my expendentures, and i will sit back and work for what i want, not for what i owe:cool:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by fatkid400
You must not be very educated if you dont know the difference between a ditch diggers salary and a die makers,Much less the education involved in becoming a journeyman die maker.
And lets see what you say when a foriegner takes your job you worked so hard to get just because he'll do it for alot less then you and your be diggin ditches to pay off your education you dont need anymore.

how many jobs have YOU lost to a foriegner? you personally...not someone you heard about.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by fatkid400
You must not be very educated if you dont know the difference between a ditch diggers salary and a die makers,Much less the education involved in becoming a journeyman die maker.
And lets see what you say when a foriegner takes your job you worked so hard to get just because he'll do it for alot less then you and your be diggin ditches to pay off your education you dont need anymore.


:rolleyes:

I can't believe you are actually asking me if I would know the difference between the two jobs...

...moving to another point you brought up.

If you loose your job, do you just sit there and cry like a baby or do you do something about it? Our world changes everyday... so does the work force. Either you adapt, or your gonna loose!

BTW, I owe NOTHING on my education. I started saving when I was very young and can manage my money well...something most people can't do.

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by Pappy
how many jobs have YOU lost to a foriegner? you personally...not someone you heard about.

Me,Timken(the bearing company that might have made a replacement bearing in 1 of your old bikes) decided to close the tooling plant I worked in and send it to india so it could save them money. Lot of good it did,customers a complaning about poor quality now:blah:

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by MOFO
:rolleyes:

I can't believe you are actually asking me if I would know the difference between the two jobs...

...moving to another point you brought up.

If you loose your job, do you just sit there and cry like a baby or do you do something about it? Our world changes everyday... so does the work force. Either you adapt, or your gonna loose!

BTW, I owe NOTHING on my education. I started saving when I was very young and can manage my money well...something most people can't do.

No, I went out and got me a better job with a bigger company making more maney.Just a further drive now.
And good for you on saving your money starting at a young age,It's smart thinking.Most kids don,t look far enough in front of themselves to do somthing like that.

[Pappy]

ahhh, so lets blame the indians instead of the company that decided to stay in business it had to outsource the work. gotcha.


what do we expect folks....we buy the cheapest crap we can, that forces the quailty to suffer, then comes the higher end product to be not available, out of business or outsourced.


you try buying just items made in the good ol' usa....just try it. id love to do it, but face it, its a new world economy and you'd better keep that in your head when you plan for your future because you will not change it.


and lets not dare blame the employees or unions that have forced the majority of these"outsourcing's" to other markets. god forbid we take responsibilty for our own actions leading to reactions, but as americans we are good at that:ermm:

[Honda TRX250ex]

I see foriegner take over so many roofing jobs out when i frame. Its insane, they are taking over all the jobs americans do not want to do. Me and another framer were joking around about how the mexicans all do roofing. He said "You know why all roofers are mexican" and i said yeah because its hell during the summer and he said "yeah and also if they fall off a roof you can replace them with another one for less money than what the pervious one was getting paid. and the thing about that is that it is all true.


In my classes i can't believe all the lazy people in my class. They just sit there and do not do anything. I was thinking if these kids are our future are country is going to be a 3rd world country in about 10 or 20 years.

[fatkid400]

You didnt get anyone pappy,The new Vise president of the company hired just befor the the plant was sold was....you guest it ...from INDIA.Oh and another thing the pay roll department was also moved to India.Why would you outsource a payroll department to stay in buissness?

[zeppelin]

i want to post my feelings on this subject, but im afraid it would be hazardous to my membership here.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Honda TRX250ex


In my classes i can't believe all the lazy people in my class. They just sit there and do not do anything. I was thinking if these kids are our future are country is going to be a 3rd world country in about 10 or 20 years.


This is whats scary! Your right, they are our future! I know damn well I did not do my best in high school and I wish I could go back and change that... however I'm just going to work harder to get to where I want to be.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by zeppelin
i want to post my feelings on this subject, but im afraid it would be hazardous to my membership here.


You can post your opinion! Just dont break the rules! :cool:

There is nothing listed below that will prevent you from posting your feelings and getting banned.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by fatkid400
You didnt get anyone pappy,The new Vise president of the company hired just befor the the plant was sold was....you guest it ...from INDIA.Oh and another thing the pay roll department was also moved to India.Why would you outsource a payroll department to stay in buissness?

sounds to me like they hired a vice president to help the company transition, thats smart business. where would timken be if they had not sold, or if they had tried to keep those working on the job? maybe in the same position as Dana Corp...or Delphi or a growing list of companies that can not compete in this day and age.

[Honda TRX250ex]

Originally posted by MOFO
This is whats scary! Your right, they are our future! I know damn well I did not do my best in high school and I wish I could go back and change that... however I'm just going to work harder to get to where I want to be.
I will admit i didn't try to much this year but my grades are mostly upper Cs and Bs and As. But next year I am going to try my hardest because i do not want to become another uneducated person working for mc ds when im 40 years old.


What most kids these days don't understand that school is their future. If they do bad in school they will have a hard life and make minal wage. They all think they are going to become rich or mary a rich man or woman. But i know one thing i would not want to marry a no offese dumb girl.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Pappy
sounds to me like they hired a vice president to help the company transition, thats smart business. where would timken be if they had not sold, or if they had tried to keep those working on the job? maybe in the same position as Dana Corp...or Delphi or a growing list of companies that can not compete in this day and age.


BINGO! The company probably had no other option... either make changes to stay in business or follow company's like Delphi... it appears GM is taking the same path as we speak.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Honda TRX250ex
I will admit i didn't try to much this year but my grades are mostly upper Cs and Bs and As. But next year I am going to try my hardest because i do not want to become another uneducated person working for mc ds when im 40 years old.


What most kids these days don't understand that school is their future. If they do bad in school they will have a hard life and make minal wage. They all think they are going to become rich or mary a rich man or woman. But i know one thing i would not want to marry a no offese dumb girl.


Good for you! I can't stress enough the importance of a good education!

[fatkid400]

Originally posted by Pappy
sounds to me like they hired a vice president to help the company transition, thats smart business. where would timken be if they had not sold, or if they had tried to keep those working on the job? maybe in the same position as Dana Corp...or Delphi or a growing list of companies that can not compete in this day and age.

They didnt even ask us. And trust me, they're not hurting for money.If they are,the only reason is giving themselves big fat bonuses.Trust me the print out a copy of thier income and send it to investors(which all timken employees have shares of stocks so we see it to) they show there income/bonuses,everything.they're not hurting for money just GREEDY.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by fatkid400
They didnt even ask us. And trust me, they're not hurting for money.If they are,the only reason is giving themselves big fat bonuses.Trust me the print out a copy of thier income and send it to investors(which all timken employees have shares of stocks so we see it to) they show there income/bonuses,everything.they're not hurting for money just GREEDY.

ummm.....if a choice is made to sell part of a company, or move part of it to keep the company intact and profitable then thats life. i agree some of the monies the CEO's pull down is incredible, but i wouldnt be b!tching if I were one of them! if it is not an employee owned business then thats life. i suspect you wouldnt have complained if the bonuses had been handed to the employee's?

why is those with no money claim those that have it are greedy:p a solution...open your own company, build it to be large enough to have a fat bonus, then hand it to the guy who sweeps the floor. (some how i do not see that happening)

and why would they have to ask YOU? you are an employee, not in a position to dictate company policy.

[Pappy]

This is from a 2001 news/press release from Timken....

In mid-April, anticipating continuing economic weakness, the company took advantage of slowing orders and its resulting ability to make major changes without disrupting customer service and announced a strategic refocusing of its global manufacturing operations. This phase of the company's transformation plan has targeted annual pre-tax savings of $100 million, to be reached by 2004. As early as this year's fourth quarter, the company expects the program to produce savings at an annual rate of $15 million.

To implement those actions, the company announced that it plans to take about $100-$110 million in charges against earnings over the next two years, including $18 million in the current quarter. The program will include the closing of two plants and sale of a third and is expected to reduce employment by 1,500 associates at those and other facilities during the next two years.


sounds to me like other factors besides illegal workers caused Timken to refocus and realign....not too mention they had global reach long before 2001

[fatkid400]

I hear every thing your saying pappy.Timken is trying to make more money just like everybody else,no matter whose throat they cut,even if it's there own.My hole point about our(Mofo included) disscusion is....It's a sad day when education,exsperience,quality(made in the U.S.A.)and pride in a job well done takes a back seat to lower wages.
I became very offened with what Mofo said about me "being the type to exspect every thing to be handed to me"I'm not,I've worked very hard to get where and what i've got,just like Mofo.And when he thinks he can kick sombody in the balls just because he thinks he has more education than sombody he's never met....
When I said "try to support a family on a ditch digger's salary" Is that there are no jobs BECAUSE companies like timken move over seas for a cheaper work force.And if sombody will do your job for less,Your job will go to some foriegner and you wont have a job. and you wont be making enough money to support your family.with the cost of everything raising thru the roof,and the job market goin down the drain,a ditch diggers job will be the only thing an educated man can get.That will be the only job out there until they decide they dont need a ditch.

Thats my 2 cents.Now give me my change and i'll shut up:D

[sharpeye]

Here's one thing that seems to be getting glossed over during this entire discussion. Not everyone has the opportunity, or the mental capacity, to get an advanced education and get a non-labor job. For those unfortunates, their only means of providing for themselves, and their families, is to learn a skill, and get better at that skill, providing a quality service.

Now if there are illegal immigrants in the area that will do the same job for a third of the pay, in less time because of the multitude that will show up at the site to perform the job, then what does the skilled American do? It's impossible to underbid a crew of illegal immigrants who will work for a dollar an hour each. Soon, the American has fewer jobs to bid, because his potential customers care more about lower price than quality.

If he's lucky, the American can find another trade to learn, but has to go from making the pay of a skilled laborer in his profession, to the pay of an unskilled apprentice in the new one. At the same time, he's taking a risk that his new profession will not be overrun by illegals.

Speaking from personal experience, I am having a harder time finding customers because my area is overrun with illegals who are willing to do my job at half the price. The only saving grace I have is that so far there are still people that care about the quality of the final product. My paycheck has suffered for it, and it's difficult to pay for an education with the lower income, and still be able to provide for my family. Tack on rising taxes and energy costs (the electric company just raised their rates again), and soon my former well-paying job will not be able to keep the lights on.

So what's an American to do?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sharpeye
Here's one thing that seems to be getting glossed over during this entire discussion. Not everyone has the opportunity, or the mental capacity, to get an advanced education and get a non-labor job. For those unfortunates, their only means of providing for themselves, and their families, is to learn a skill, and get better at that skill, providing a quality service.




so those that fit the above description would or deserve higher pay then someone more qualified to do the job:confused:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sharpeye


Speaking from personal experience, I am having a harder time finding customers because my area is overrun with illegals who are willing to do my job at half the price. The only saving grace I have is that so far there are still people that care about the quality of the final product. My paycheck has suffered for it, and it's difficult to pay for an education with the lower income, and still be able to provide for my family. Tack on rising taxes and energy costs (the electric company just raised their rates again), and soon my former well-paying job will not be able to keep the lights on.

So what's an American to do?

now that i fully understand and im watching it unfold in the area i work in. immigrants, legal and illegal are and have taken over. the local news and papers have repeatedly stated that the middle class has been run out of the area leaving the low and high class.....and you cant get jack chit done at a good price or quality now.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
so those that fit the above description would or deserve higher pay then someone more qualified to do the job:confused:

Did I say the deserved higher pay? No. But they also don't deserve to have their job taken by someone less qualified who will to the work for next to nothing. If the other person is more qualified, then they deserve the job. But how many of the illegal immigrants taking labor jobs are more qualifed?

[Honda TRX250ex]

This is getting good, I'm gonna grab myself a some icecream sit back and read.:cool:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sharpeye
Did I say the deserved higher pay? No. But they also don't deserve to have their job taken by someone less qualified who will to the work for next to nothing. If the other person is more qualified, then they deserve the job. But how many of the illegal immigrants taking labor jobs are more qualifed?

You will have to prove "less qualified" because mexicans and other immigrant workers do excellent craftsmanship in most fields...but I thought we were talking LABOR not a tradesman. In the past, when I hire a contractor, i've gotton better work preformed by those that had a mexican crew then those who showed up with a van full of white dudes. Thats just my expierence, and from talking with others it is thier findings also. Mexicans are not all lazy burrito eating donkey riders, they are just like any other person and if they apply themselves can be as talented as any other person on the planet.

In areas where illegals are taking bottom dollar for labor jobs, there are not many AMERICANS lining up to get the jobs first. I ride past 2 "pick up" spots for green card workers daily and all I see are mexicans...not one white guy in the bunch. These are legal workers willing to work for the pay the EMPLOYER has stated he would pay. If an american cant or wont work for that then they better find something better.

Like it or not, a White American will flat refuse to work for less then they feel is a fair wage, even if it is a wage higher then the minimum set forth by our governement. If others, illegal, legal, black, white, green will work for that wage then what can you do? Again, I am AGAINST illegal labor....period...but facts are facts.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
now that i fully understand and im watching it unfold in the area i work in. immigrants, legal and illegal are and have taken over.

Not only in my field, but in related fields, immigrants are abundant. I'm in construction, for future reference. I'm frequently forced to work at the same site with a crew of Mexicans performing another job, and on more than one occassion have been forced to leave the site because I can't communicate with them. A crew of 10 or so, many of whom are in my way while I try to work, and I can't even ask them to wait a moment for me to move out of their way. Working around each other is impossible because I can't understand what they say, and they don't understand me.

[Mechanix311]

All they have to do here is come to the U.S. legally so we can govern how many come in to the country. When the unemployment rate is up, govern it down a little, when it is down let a few in. They come in and flood out country and for some reason it seems like they have more rights than we do. They arent bad people i work with them all the time and they are usually very polite and keep everything to themselves. I am an educated person and i dig ditches and their is nothing wrong with that. It may not dig them with a shovel but thats ok. I havent seen a white framing crew in a while nor a white roofing crew.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
In areas where illegals are taking bottom dollar for labor jobs, there are not many AMERICANS lining up to get the jobs first. I ride past 2 "pick up" spots for green card workers daily and all I see are mexicans...not one white guy in the bunch. These are legal workers willing to work for the pay the EMPLOYER has stated he would pay. If an american cant or wont work for that then they better find something better.

Not many Americans lining up for the work? Where are they supposed to line up? The employers that go to these "pick up" spots aren't advertising that they need employees. Why would they, when they can get as many as they need from the immigrant pools.

As far as no Americans at the pick up spots, how could they work with a crew of people that, in most cases, don't speak English.

[Pappy]

After reading up on this issue over the past few hours, not here but around teh net, it seems alot of people are thinking that iof we close the border and enforce the laws alrready in place that the american business owners will become more inventive with reagrds to making a profit, offer more pay and better working conditions to retain quality workers and the like.

While i am sure some fo that can be found to be true, I dont think alot fo small business can take the hit. Less production by fewer workers will not be overcome by paying someone a bit more to do the job of 3 others except in situations where machinary can be used to offset the labor once needed (i.e. Nail Gun, Trencher, Specialized equipment used in processes or manufacturing)


OH WAIT they did that already! When the automakers brought automation into our factories MANY lost employment because the company did not require as man "hands on" workers. Production went up, yet good hard working americans lost thier jobs. At that time I remember the Unions raising hell but nothing came of it.

Three things will happen I garuntee it, if you push a business in a corner it will either fail, cut jobs or resort to business practices that may or may not help eleviate the offset of cheaper labor costs and lost profits. Either way the worker looses, but not always the business. Its a sick game thats played out every day.

Everyone will soon witness the death of health care provided by our employers (those that have it anyway) and you will see an end to retirement plans run by the employer......something has to give and I will always bet against the employee
:ermm:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sharpeye


As far as no Americans at the pick up spots, how could they work with a crew of people that, in most cases, don't speak English.

funny, I see them standing in the same areas with a "will work for food" sign.

one of my best friends is an engineer, he consistantly tells me he would rather run a project with 100 mexicans that do not understand him then with a crew of 100 people,thats people of any race, that do not want to be there in the first place.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
Three things will happen I garuntee it, if you push a business in a corner it will either fail, cut jobs or resort to business practices that may or may not help eleviate the offset of cheaper labor costs and lost profits. Either way the worker looses, but not always the business. Its a sick game thats played out every day.

Yeah, the business owner wants to keep his business as profitable as possible. Yes, the working American loses out either way. However, what American doesn't need is the influx of illegal workers speeding up the process.

Furthermore, considering many immigrants send the money they make to their home country, they are simply helping the decline of profit. Americans love to buy things. When Americans have jobs, they spend money in America, keeping the economy afloat.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
funny, I see them standing in the same areas with a "will work for food" sign.

Will work for food? In the same area as the immigrants? Then it seems more a matter of the employer not wanting American workers because they can't live on rock-bottom pay.

[Pappy]

oh i agree, we love to spend. but we also will not pay more then we should for alot of items when we know its cheaper if we buy a brand built outside our borders....



and for everyone reading this, areas are different around the country. some areas have not been impacted, others have been devistated. some industies are being ruined IMO by all this, and its not just mexicans. the business field i have worked in for almost the past 20 years, ive watched the typical, white middle income business owner sell out to foriegners of all races.....and they are driving the business in the ground. it sucks bad to see it, and i know there will be no future in this field thats worth a hoot so im bailing out, starting a new.


where i work, its this issue day in and day out. where i live, i dont see a mexican until apple picking season.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
one of my best friends is an engineer, he consistantly tells me he would rather run a project with 100 mexicans that do not understand him then with a crew of 100 people,thats people of any race, that do not want to be there in the first place.

So how can he run a project with 100 Mexicans that don't understand him? Does he stand there and point all day, miming actions to 100 people that don't understand?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sharpeye
Will work for food? In the same area as the immigrants? Then it seems more a matter of the employer not wanting American workers because they can't live on rock-bottom pay.

while thats sounds good, you know its not the truth. americans will not work for less then they feel they are worth, thats the workers choice.

a guy who is told he will get paid $8 an hour to haul bricks has the same oppertunity as another man, its his choice to take it. you can force employers to pay more, and you will increase illegal hiring. you can fine the business for hiring illegals and he will be forced to raise prices to try and hire legal workers. some say this will have no impact on our economy, i differ with my opinion on that.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by sharpeye
So how can he run a project with 100 Mexicans that don't understand him? Does he stand there and point all day, miming actions to 100 people that don't understand?

he must, or he uses someone who is bilingual. these are labors, not tradesman. even a dumb wetback gets the picture to carry a wheelbarrow of mortar back and forth all day without too much instruction.

[Pappy]

I just called my bud, and asked him your question...

his basic reply was that he can point, draw or have someone who speaks engilsh and spanish instruct the laborors on what they are to do. he refuses to learn spansih or ebonics, but he said ebonics hasnt been used on the jobsite in several years simply because the blacks dont want be the jobsite ****** either

and he wants me to add that he hasnt had one white laboror apply for a job on teh site in 2 years and they require all workers to provide work visa'a.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
while thats sounds good, you know its not the truth. americans will not work for less then they feel they are worth, thats the workers choice.

I am working for less than I feel I'm worth. For all the increase in cost, I can't raise my rates or I risk losing the few customers I do have. So my profit plummets. Over the last five years, the price I charge has gone down simply to be able to compete with the immigrant competition.

Employers won't offer a decent wage for labor simply because they know they can get it done cheaper using immigrant labor. And how many employers do you know will pay $8 an hour to move bricks anyway?

[Pappy]

$8 to $12 is going rate for laborors around here, DC metro area.


you are not competing with the immigrant workers, you are competing with the businesses that employ them. the sad part is, nothing is being done to those that do hire illegals.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
he must, or he uses someone who is bilingual. these are labors, not tradesman. even a dumb wetback gets the picture to carry a wheelbarrow of mortar back and forth all day without too much instruction.
But it doesn't stop there, does it? My job is considered a tradesman level job, but I still have immigrant worker competition simply because they will work cheaper.

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
$8 to $12 is going rate for laborors around here, DC metro area.


you are not competing with the immigrant workers, you are competing with the businesses that employ them. the sad part is, nothing is being done to those that do hire illegals.

Middle Tenn here, and the usual rate for day labor is $6. And in the last couple years, the number of day labor centers as plummeted because of the illegal immigrant pools around town. Before the problem became really bad, every one of those centers had more people lined up for work than there was work. And since they require all the proper paperwork filled out, all the workers were American, or legal immigrants.

[300EXrider356]

Here in KC the going rate for any landscaping or lawnmowing job is like 8 bucks an hour. It sucks because that's the only way i can make money since im only 16. I barely have 3 customers because they all have immigrant lawn service, but there is a plus side, do any of you really want to clean porto poties out, or septic tanks.
just my 2 cents

[Pappy]

I hear your frustration, but you have to ask yourself what you can do.

report any violators you know are using illegals.

give good service and quality work

promote your craftsmanship to your clients


And to add to your frustration, your tax dollars go to aide the illegal and even a good portion of the non-illegal workforce. its a screwed up deal for everyone for sure.....but place the blame where it belongs.

Are most of your customers white or foreign? In areas where the population has a high density of ethnic diversity, the white guy is odd man out period. The part that sickens me is that people will immigrate legally, and then refuse to support americans:ermm: koreans are famous for this, they build themselves nice little communities and deal within and among themselves completely closing out oppertunities for businesses that are already in place to handle thier needs. could you imagine dealing only with white american owned businesses for all your needs? hell, could it even be done:p

[sharpeye]

Originally posted by Pappy
And to add to your frustration, your tax dollars go to aide the illegal and even a good portion of the non-illegal workforce. its a screwed up deal for everyone for sure.....but place the blame where it belongs.

Are most of your customers white or foreign? In areas where the population has a high density of ethnic diversity, the white guy is odd man out period. The part that sickens me is that people will immigrate legally, and then refuse to support americans

I know exactly where the blame belongs. On bothe the employers that hire illegal workers, and the ones sneaking over here illegally in the first place.

As far as my customer base, I've got no problem working for anyone of any race, and have a very diverse group of customers.

True, many immigrants refuse to support this country. Even the legal ones open business that proudly display signs that Americans can't understand. This is America, and if they choose to be here they should at the very least conform at the most basic levels of communication and integration.

Our government should not have to translate every page of text to another language simply because those that come here to live, legal or otherwise, refuse to learn the language. How many other countries would do that?

[Pappy]

not many for sure:p

i had no doubts you would deal with anyone, i was just wondering if you were victim of more then just the immigrant workforce.

[fast_enough]

I wouldnt have that much of a problem with aliens if they paid what we paid. They do what we do, so why not have to pay what we have to pay? I bet they would look for a more high paying job then.

Not to change the subject, but I'm being serious. I live in a very high populated amish area, and out of all the things they should pay, shouldnt road taxes be one of them? We have to pay with our hard earned money for what they do, if you don't know, a buggy and 2 horses up front going up and down a road constantly, can tear a road to pieces. But do they pay for this? No, but we do, even though our rubber tired automobiles is 100 times more easier on the road. And they will come to use the phone at my garage, and they will just watch there horses take a huge **** in the middle of my nicely done gravel driveway. Need I remind you they use the phones for free, and most of the time dont say thank you, or any sort of nice reply. So then I'm stuck with a shovel cleaning up the **** after the have gone, only for them to do it the next day.

[Robin Hood]

Heh, I just caught this thread out of the corner of my eye. Time to vent a little bit..

First off, I'd like to say that my father is in fact a general contractor. He runs his own construction company that is 100% american.. he does his best to help out with giving jobs to white kids, and even men, but the thing is they don't want it. I've been on the job with him long enough to realise that it's not a walk in the park. There is in fact hard labor to do, and it just seems like white people think that they are better than that. Why people look down upon this kind of work is beyond me...

It's called and OPPERTUNITY folks, it's a job, and should be treated and looked upon as such. You go to work, help build a HOUSE that someone lives in. If you can't take pride in a job that helps out another civilian live then you're right, you don't belong working that job. Same with landscaping and other hard labor jobs.. This folks, is why the mexican's and other immigrants are here. They have realised what our generations obviously haven't, even though they live in poverty and some aren't as near educated as us. They see it as an OPPERTUNITY, something that we should be realising if people didn't have such bull **** racist views.

So don't go hating the immigrants for crossing the boarder, just because of some stereotypical bull that floats around. If you feel so strongly that this country is going to hell then leave. If not, get the stick out off your *** and do something about the situation.

I do though, feel that something should be done about the ILLEGAL aliens. The boarder should definately be patrolled more often. I have heard recently that nuclear substances were transported or smuggled between the US and Mexico. I'm not sure if this is true or not.. I kinda heard it in history class, because I'm not so up-to-date on my news.. but this is where I draw the line. Just the sheer though of one dirty bomb going off in one of our populated american cities should be enough to make Bush consider strengthening the boarder patrol and security.

I'm sure there is more to be discussed, and I kinda strayed off topic abit.. but it's 11:20 and I still have to shower, do some home work, and eat.. cause I have a job that can pay for my own food. :p

[jeremy_283]

stop complaining about sh*t and do sumthin ........lets rip into them alaskan oil fields!!!........ and wat have u people dune to solve these problems? complain? cuz it aint workin!

[400exrules]

Originally posted by extremejrowe
stop complaining about sh*t and do sumthin ........lets rip into them alaskan oil fields!!!........ and wat have u people dune to solve these problems? complain? cuz it aint workin!

what do you expect? hey lets all go stand at the border and shoot mexicans.........good plan :rolleyes:

[Robin Hood]

Originally posted by 400exrules
what do you expect? hey lets all go stand at the border and shoot mexicans.........good plan :rolleyes:

What do you think we should do? There have to be different ways to solve these problems.. and he didn't flat out say go shoot mexicans did he?

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, It's past my bed time. :o

[400exrules]

Originally posted by Robin Hood
What do you think we should do? There have to be different ways to solve these problems.. and he didn't flat out say go shoot mexicans did he?

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, It's past my bed time. :o

im saying theirs not much we can do.....this is the land of the free and all, but yet we have little say in what goes on. all we can do is vote, the rest is out of our hands

[Robin Hood]

Originally posted by 400exrules
im saying theirs not much we can do.....this is the land of the free and all, but yet we have little say in what goes on. all we can do is vote, the rest is out of our hands

Unfortunately yes, I'm just worried that this problem isn't going to be fixed before something drastic happens, like the whole dirty bomb incident I described before.. :ermm:

[Mechanix311]

We cant do anything about it because our government and justice system will not let us. IF you shoot a mexican crossing the border than you are the bad guy period. Even if he is shooting at you you still are portrayed as the bad guy. Since when do illegal aliens even have u.s. citizen rights. Its a bunch of bull ****. Look at the minute men voluntarily keeping a close watch on our borders. Our government tried to shut them down. Hello they are out their for free trying to do something about illegals in as well as they can. They are not shooting them and harassing them they are giving them water maybe a shirt and loading them in a van and driving them back across the border. The border patrol is all pissed off about the minute men because they are catching the coyotes and drug runners that the border patrol make a little side money off of. OUR border patrol is just another government agency who is crooked so if anyone is to blame it is the government.

[TacomaNC4X4]

why cant they just have open season at the borders? just get a bunch of rednecks to hunt the entire border and shoot everybody/animan that crosses...that would solve the problem. what pisses me off is tht illigals are protesting? where are the damn immigration police?

[Outlaw 50]

I think the solution to the problem of ILLEGALS is to enforce the laws already on the books. There is a proper way to immigrate to the US. Jumping across the Rio Grande isn't the way!
Also we need to work to change the government of Mexico. If the people of Mexico had a say in the way things got done in their country they wouldn't need or want to come here. They are hard working and they have all the natural resources to create a booming economy. The problem is the government of the country. IT IS THE DEFFINITION OF CORRUPTION!!! Time for the people to clean house.
As far as Americans not wanting to do certain jobs here that has to do with the pay scale being lowered by using illegals who will work for less and the fact that the government pays people to stay home( Welfare,Unemployment ) . Without these handouts people would get off their *****es and go to work!
P.S. I liked the first post on this thread.

[MR.BIG]

Originally posted by TacomaNC4X4
why cant they just have open season at the borders? just get a bunch of rednecks to hunt the entire border and shoot everybody/animan that crosses...that would solve the problem. what pisses me off is tht illigals are protesting? where are the damn immigration police?

Right on let it be known if you cross the border you will be shot. I am sure that would cut down on people crossing the borders.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by MR.BIG
Right on let it be known if you cross the border you will be shot. I am sure that would cut down on people crossing the borders.

i geuss it worked well for East Germany:ermm:

[harescrambles]

Originally posted by Outlaw 50
I think the solution to the problem of ILLEGALS is to enforce the laws already on the books. There is a proper way to immigrate to the US. Jumping across the Rio Grande isn't the way!
Also we need to work to change the government of Mexico. If the people of Mexico had a say in the way things got done in their country they wouldn't need or want to come here. They are hard working and they have all the natural resources to create a booming economy. The problem is the government of the country. IT IS THE DEFFINITION OF CORRUPTION!!! Time for the people to clean house.
As far as Americans not wanting to do certain jobs here that has to do with the pay scale being lowered by using illegals who will work for less and the fact that the government pays people to stay home( Welfare,Unemployment ) . Without these handouts people would get off their *****es ahd go to work!
P.S. I liked the first post on this thread.

Finally a post that makes some sense.
You can sure tell by the post who care about the country we live in.

[LTandRaptorider]

Originally posted by MOFO
1) I'll pass on the free medical care. I'll gladly pay for my own and have superior health care.

2) Never had a problem finding ANY gov't offical that did NOT speak english.

3) Never found a US Gov't form that was not printed in English.

4) The entire school system I went through, I never had a teacher that did NOT speak english.

5) Never had an issue not getting American History in school.

6) I fly the American flag in front of my house and never had ANYONE complain.

7) If I had kids, I'm sure they would recieve proper lunches...etc. If not, they would pack their lunch.

8) No problems with this one...

9) This is illegal for ANYONE - if you live here or not. If your a citizen, you must obey all laws. They do not bend for anyone.

10) All law officers speak english.

11) Every year we have a HUGE 4th of July party. NEVER had a problem.

12) You dont want to pay taxes? Or want to pay less? You better not vote Democrat...

13) Never had issues here...

Guess what country I described... the one you want to leave. :rolleyes:

Either I am missing the point, or you are on some of the subjects he posted...

1) The referral to free medical care... This is provided to some foreign groups by OUR government here...
2) In response to language speaking et al... Government officials, and teachers in particular are seeing the requirement to achieve bi-lingual status. I see even here in PA at my local MAC machine, being prompted first on English or Spanish language... WTF??!!

Without going through all the topics.... He was merely pointing out what is provided now by REQUIREMENT to Mexican citizens here, especially in western states. I believe he was being facetious in his discourse, stating that he would like all the benefits provided here, to be available for his family in Mexico. Which of course would never happen! Ok, too much thinking... I'm going out to eat, and NO, I don't want a dam Spanish menu! ;)

[coolex]

in alot of posts in this thread people are saying that ALL americans are lazy and would rather not do the hard dirty jobs well thtas wrong yes most americans are lazy and wanted everything handed to them but not all some of us are not afraid to work hard for little pay because u do wat u have to do

[MOFO]

Originally posted by LTandRaptorider
Either I am missing the point, or you are on some of the subjects he posted...

1) The referral to free medical care... This is provided to some foreign groups by OUR government here...
2) In response to language speaking et al... Government officials, and teachers in particular are seeing the requirement to achieve bi-lingual status. I see even here in PA at my local MAC machine, being prompted first on English or Spanish language... WTF??!!

Without going through all the topics.... He was merely pointing out what is provided now by REQUIREMENT to Mexican citizens here, especially in western states. I believe he was being facetious in his discourse, stating that he would like all the benefits provided here, to be available for his family in Mexico. Which of course would never happen! Ok, too much thinking... I'm going out to eat, and NO, I don't want a dam Spanish menu! ;)

Ok, well I think I stated that I would much rather pay for my Medical care and have a superior plan than just rely on the "free medical" care. Why do people always expect to get free crap from the gov't!?!? It almost makes me think our country is moving more and more to the socialist side.

You just brought up a topic that is right up my alley. Try using a PNC machine.... 8 languages! How does this affect you or anyone else? I dont see whats wrong with this and how it personally affects us. I'm sure you can travel around the world and in most cases find an english version...

Trust me, I completely understand what he was trying to get across. Most of those points are mute and do not apply to the root problem. Illegal border jumping and not becoming a legal US citizen.

[LTandRaptorider]

Originally posted by MOFO
[Trust me, I completely understand what he was trying to get across. Most of those points are mute and do not apply to the root problem. Illegal border jumping and not becoming a legal US citizen. [/B]

Yep, after posting my reply, I had a discussion with someone about it. I concluded with your statement... I know our country is based on immigration.. but the biggest problem here is the ILLEGAL immigration!

Oh, how being prompted for language at the MAC machine affects me? It's an extra key-stroke step that takes up more time for me on the way home from work. This now makes it take longer to go buy some Corona! :eek: :blah: :devil:

[MOFO]

Originally posted by LTandRaptorider


Oh, how being prompted for language at the MAC machine affects me? It's an extra key-stroke step that takes up more time for me on the way home from work. This now makes it take longer to go buy some Corona! :eek: :blah: :devil:


I can bring that point up and present it to PNC. :eek:


;)

[flybyyou440ex]

BOOT OUT THE ******* MEXICANS!!!!!!