PDA

View Full Version : How To: Break in an engine



BlasterEaten250
03-28-2006, 07:15 PM
Many people buy new atv's or rebuild there engines. When you have a new engine with no hours on it, you must break it in. Breaking in an engine properly will affect how long your engine will last. If you do it properly, your engine will last longer. I will tell you the procedures of breaking in a 4 stroke engine.

1.When you get the bike, or are done rebuilding, make sure you have the right amount of oil (brand new) in the bike. Make sure your filter is clean also. Install a new spark plug.

2. After that, for the first 10 hours of opperation, do not go past half throttle. Try to go different speeds as much as you can, but do not go past half throttle while riding. If you do, this could harm the engine. When you are riding, try not to put much stress on the engine (ie. climbing hills etc..)

3. After 10 hours of opperation, go 5 more hours, except this time, you can go 3/4 throttle. Do not go over 3/4 throttle. Again, try to vary your speed as much as you can.

4. After you have completed the riding part (15 hours total) adjust the valves.

5. After adjusting the valves, change the oil again to get rid of all the metal particles that are a result of the engine getting seated all together.


To learn how to adjust the valves, refer to this (http://www.atvriders.com/articles/valveadjustment400ex.html) Remember, when adjusting valves and changing oil, always work in a clean environment, you dont want any dirt or dust getting in your brandnew engine.
I hope this has helped you some:)

underpowered
03-28-2006, 07:29 PM
Anotehr method of break in can be found here, at http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

BlasterEaten250
03-28-2006, 09:30 PM
It is good to take things safe though. 10 hours could save 3 years.

flyin#5
03-28-2006, 09:46 PM
sorry man... but im going to have to disagree with your break in procedure.

there is simple science to it, engines work on very close tolerances and the slightest thing wrong in your engine can mean disaster, or in this case more compression(power) or less compression. yeah, you have the rednecks that will tell you ride it like you stole it during the break in period... but im telling you, thats not the way to go. i have done a few to many rebuilds on the blaster, and have seen SIGNIFICANT im talking a 7psi difference on a two stroke using this method. the break in process is even more crucial for 4 strokes.

Heat Cycles

step 1-when you rebuild or get a new quad the first thing you want to do it start it up and let it idle until the cylinder becomes to hot to touch for a couple seconds. then shut it off and let it cool COMPLETLY.

step 2-once it cools off COMPLETLY again turn it on and let it idle until the cylinder is to warm to touch for a couple seconds. now its time to start riding. the first thing: NEVER stay in the same RPM range for more than a couple seconds. always vary the throttle. never put the engine under any load (dont go up steep inclines, ride with other people, or be in to high of a gear so the engine bogs down). you need to ride it for 5 minutes the first cycle not going over 1/4 throttle. after you ride for 5 minutes park it and let it cool completly.

After it cools completly repeat step 1 and keep repeating it until you have about 20 minutes of ride time on it.

*NOTE* its a good idea to keep track of total engine run time (warmup and ride time) and just ride time.

step 3 do exactly as you have been with step 1, but now go to 10 minute increments, not going over 1/4 throttle until you have 40 minutes ride time on it. then go about to 1/3 throttle.. ALWAYS VARYING.

step 4now go 10 minutes at a time not going over 1/2 throttle until you get an hour and 20-30 minutes on it.

step 5 now you can go to 15 minute's a ride if you want... id stay more towards 10 though.. so maybe find a medium at 12-13. keep doing everything the same, except you can go up to 3/4 throttle until you get 3-4 hours on it, or until your compression stops rising.. ill explain more:

the best way to know if your engine is fully broken in is testing compression. you will see the compression rise after every couple rides (or should), when the compression stops rising that means the engine is fully broken in. most people are to lazy to check the compression that much, but its highly reccomended. if you are one of those people who are lazy 3-4.. possibly even 5 hours is the normal break in time. after you reach 3 you should be fine going out near WOT, but i would keep varying the throttle until you get 4-5 hours on it.

im sure your wondering why this method works.. so i'll explain for those who want to know.

when a cylinder is honed, and when rings are made they have what you call "high spots". just like if you cut a piece of tubing you always get a little metal sticking up that you need to grind down. well... breaking in your engine is grinding that excess metal off your tubing. if you put tubing you just cut on the grinder and jam in on there... press as hard as you can you will get that excess metal off, but you'll take some length off that tubing as well.. and when you go to weld up your project, it wont be as precise.

its the same deal with cylinders and rings, if you go out there and ride it like you would any other day.. or race it, you heat the engine up to fast and not only does it wear away high spots, but it takes away the low spots... which takes away compression. not only do you have less compression, but you have less ride time before your cylinder gets glazed over (the cross hatchings dissapear). its an easy way to get more power out of your machine.. it just takes patience.

BlasterEaten250
03-28-2006, 10:40 PM
There is many different ways to break an engine in. They way I said was from a clymer manual. That is how I learned it. I think my brother broke his in the way you said. And it works fine too. A big point of this thread is to make sure people do break it in. And it will tell them a way how to do it. Both ways work.

flyin#5
03-29-2006, 06:13 PM
i agree.. it is important to break in your engine and more people need to realize this.

i know you got this info out of a clymer manual, but that doesnt mean its right. if your engine is fully broken in at 3-5 hours, and you keep going easy on it during that time and 10 hours or more past that your rings will not seat correctly, and its a waste of valuable riding time! also your method doesnt say anything about heat cycles, and if you ride for 2 hours at a time not going over 1/2 throttle its going to get much hotter than you want it to right away. its not precise enough... you need a time when you only go up to 1/4 throttle, then half, 3/4, and finally wot.

raptor brothers
03-30-2006, 07:46 PM
I have always taken it easy for the first tank(not going over 3/4 throttle).Riding 10 to 15 min. at a time then letting it cool & doing it again(never had a problem).I also change the oil after the first tank.I always wandered why the owners manual(for my 660 & my 700) goes into so much detail about break in ,but does tell you to change the oil untill the 20 hr. service?The oil is so dirty after the first tank.I feel parts are made so much better now(tighter tolerances),that break in is shorter.I was also wandering if the rings weren't seated right wouldn't it smoke like crazy since they are what scrapes the oil off the cylinder walls & seals the oil out of the combustion chamber?

beerock
04-03-2006, 02:58 PM
i did a how to on this in the 250r forum

EXevan91
04-08-2006, 06:42 AM
there are many many diffrent "beleifs" on the breakin stage. lets see who else has a way besides u guys.

beerock
04-08-2006, 09:42 AM
this isnt a belief this is fact

Ripitupfilms
04-08-2006, 10:04 AM
no hes right it mite be a fact but there are many different beliefs on how to break an engine in

quadzilla R450
04-08-2006, 11:07 AM
i dis-agree i always break my new bikes in, in the same method as dicirbed by motoman and that is hard and fast and have had nothing but constant power with out any problems. Going to easy on your bike in the break in period will not let the bike set-up properly and will make it a weak bike compared to breaking it in this way

beerock
04-08-2006, 12:43 PM
wrong wrong wrong

killed300ex
04-11-2006, 07:33 PM
I just talked with the guy that is building my 416. Spent 1/2 hour telling why you should break in an engine just like flyin#5 said. Reason is you want to heat treat all the parts it will make them all harder and last alot longer. He said that you can break in an engine going balls to the walls but its stupid stupid stupid. It is taking life right out of the engine. If you want to make a reliable engine you need to put it through enough heat cylces to harden the metals.
Evan

johnsls
04-12-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm ready to install my cylinder with a 426 JE piston and ring set, new chain, stage2 cam and HD cam chain.

Can I run regular oil, nonsynthetic for the first 5 or 10 hrs and then run synthetic. I just got some Amsoil but this stuff is expensive, then again it might take me awhile to get to 10 hrs.

I also went to the site about running the quad basically like you stole it... hmmm seems like a bad idea. But I know nothing.

I actually need help with install so if anyone in NJ is near Bridgewater I'd appreciate some help,, I got beer.....& a Italian cook.......:D

beerock
04-12-2006, 09:46 AM
yes run a good dino oil in it to break it in.

you have a four stroke so break in a a little different in that you need to run dino oil first in order to break in the rings and cylinder wall correctly

(just like when i built my 351w ford race motor for my boat)

i owuld suggest a straight sae30 weight oil i used penzoil straight sae 30 weight. ( i used to use it in my 250r tranny as well) but i switched to lucas synthetic gear oil75w-90)

and do the break in procedure as follows under my break in procedure located in the 250r forum

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/beerock69/me%20pics/boat/DSCF0091.jpg

JIMTED79
04-12-2006, 10:13 PM
Everybody thinks there way is right on this one for one reason or another. Quads are made to ride hard and I don't know anyone racing seeing how long they can get there motor to last. I don't even race and I change my top end every two years just to keep it tight. I guess it depends on how much you ride though.

beerock
04-12-2006, 10:23 PM
its not what everyone thinks, iot is what is known in the profesional mechanics society as the RIGHT way


one person puts up a BS expert authority article about how every motor build engineer in the world ARE WRONG???!!!???

and people want to agree because what hes different???????


SORRY the laws of physics do not work that way......

end of story

DamageInc
04-13-2006, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by beerock
its not what everyone thinks, iot is what is known in the profesional mechanics society as the RIGHT way


one person puts up a BS expert authority article about how every motor build engineer in the world ARE WRONG???!!!???

and people want to agree because what hes different???????


SORRY the laws of physics do not work that way......

end of story

You must be talking about the Motoman? His ideas are not new, and they are not in disagreement with everyone; he just takes them to a higher degree than most do. Even a lot of owners' manuals tell you that "brief full throttle acceleration will contribute to good engine break-in". The reason is that you need high cylinder pressures to properly seat those rings. Do a Google search for "engine break-in cylinder pressure" and you will see that there are MANY people who agree with his philosophy, in many different areas (including airplane engines, where everything is strictly regulated by the FAA).

When I hear people talk about "heat treating" and "heat cycling", I really crack up. The metals in your engine are already heat treated when they are made, at temperatures much higher than you could ever get them by running it. That's just old-school thinking from people who didn't know any better.

And for those of you who think that babying your engine will make it last longer, by allowing the parts to wear into each other, that is also laughable. If your piston to cylinder clearance is too tight, or a bearing is too tight, then no type of break-in is going to save it...it's going to seize or scuff no matter what you do. The only things that really "break-in" on your engine are the camshaft/rockers (designs vary), the valves/seats, and the rings to the cylinder wall. Babying your engine won't help any of those break-in better, but it will allow cylinder glazing if you baby it too much before the rings are seated properly. The important thing is to not run it wide open for long periods, to avoid the excessive heat build-up from the rings wearing in (it is possible to anneal a ring by doing that), but short full throttle bursts are good for it. Not just good for it, but essential to an optimum break-in. And for what it's worth, I had straight A's in tech school (including engine rebuilding), and I'm ASE certified in engine rebuilding, and I've been rebuilding engines for over 20 years. Not everyone who subscribes to the Motoman principles is a dumb redneck, as some of you claim.

DieselBoy
04-13-2006, 08:11 PM
i read that heat cycles are only neccessary for dyno breakins due to the fact that the machine is not receiving cool air (as when your riding, and without heat cycles the dyno break in could become a disaster. they also use fans to cool the motor- but the heat cycles i was informed are only if you are breakn' it in via dyno.

premiumtommy
04-14-2006, 11:09 AM
I agree with damageInc

heat treat the engine on break-in....rubbish

what exactly are you going to accomplish by doing this...go ahead try to convince me...i've had too many professional engine builders tell me to just get on it..

if any part is gonna fail..no amount of break-in is gonna help

ride it like your gonna for 20 miles..change oil..check valves and anything you might feel needs it...rock on

Yellow400guy
04-21-2006, 11:46 PM
this is all fine and good if u are rebuilding ur engine urself, but what about those who buy one brand new, and the dealership has doged em pullin in and out, and i konow this happens cus ive seen it. not even warming em up jsut start and give it hell.

beerock
04-22-2006, 02:34 PM
breaking in motors like this is not good, you can glaze the cylinder walls and then cause blow by which will deform the piston and cause seizures from to high an rpm or too low

ive seen it happen theres a fine line. maybe thats why theres people on both side of the fence but honestly you need to be in the middle.

i agree though heat treating is not why heat cycles are done its for rings and cyl walls

not enough rpm is bad and TOO MUCH is bad.

the thing is alot of the newer technogloy motors out have much tighter tolearances and break in is not nearly as important as say a 2 stroke or a single cylinder 4 stroke or multiple old technology inline and v style motors

heres something from an article i read

"Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern, reciprocating engine.
For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for using high power loading for short periods (to avoid excessive heat) during the break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures.
We must achieve a happy medium where we are pushing on the ring hard enough to wear it in but not hard enough to generate enough heat to cause glazing. Once again, if glazing should occur, the only remedy is to remove the effected cylinder, re-hone it and replace the piston rings and start the whole process over again.
We asked four top motorcycle engine builders what they do to ensure peak power output and optimum engine life. Here is a capsulation of their responses.
"If the wrong type of oil is used initially, or the break-in is too easy, rings and cylinders could (read will) glaze and never seal properly. A fresh cylinder wall needs some medium to high engine loading to get the piston rings to seat properly for good compression but make sure you don't lug or overheat the engine. Use high quality, low viscosity oil (Valvoline 30 weight), no synthetics, too slippery. If synthetics are used during initial break in the rings are sure to glaze over.
An engine's initial run should be used to bring oil and coolant (air, oil, and/or water) up to operating temperature only, with little or no load, then shut down and allowed to cool to ambient temperature. This is important. After each run the engine needs to completely cool down to ambient temperature. In Texas, especially in the summer, that's still pretty hot. After a cool down period, start it up again and take the motorcycle for it's fist ride (you hope).
This time give the engine light loads at relatively low rpm and stay out of top gear. Lugging the engine, i.e., low RPM with a lot of throttle (manifold pressure), is more detrimental than high rpm. Another key is too constantly vary engine load during the entire break-in period. A constant load is not ideal for breaking in bearing tolerances. This second run should last only 10-15 minutes before another complete cool down.
The third run should see slightly higher rpm with light to medium power loading using short bursts of acceleration to help seat the rings. Again 10-15 minutes of running should do it and again avoid top gear. A forth run should consist of light to medium engine loads with a few more bursts of medium-high rpm, and lasting just 10-15 minutes varying the engine load and again avoiding top gear. Next while the engine is still warm drain the oil and change the filter. This gets out the new metal particles that are being worn away. Most of the metal particles will break away within the first 50 -75 miles. To ensure the rings seat well, use the same high quality oil and don't be shy about short duration high rpm blasts through the lower gears after the oil has been changed.
A few more 15-20 minute sessions should be used to work up to the engine's redline gradually increasing the engine loads. After some definite hard running and 250-500 miles it's a good idea to check the valves. After 500 miles re-torqueing the head is suggested. Switch to synthetic oil but not before 500-1500 miles. Most of the engine experts warned of the danger of breaking in the engine too easily and ending up with an engine that will always run slow whether it is from tight tolerances, inadequate ring seal or carbon buildup. Engine load is more detrimental than rpm because of the head created internally, so avoid lugging the engine but rev it freely especially in the lower gears. Basically, be sure not to get it too hot but be sure to seat the rings properly.
So that's it, sure a lot different than keeping under 4000 rpm for 500 miles then under 5000 rpm for 1000 miles. Maybe bike manufacturers are being super cautious at the expense of your motor's performance? I think that they take the cautious route that works over time (1000 miles, or about 20 hours of break in) versus a faster route that can be more easily screwed up."

here the link

http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

raptor brothers
04-23-2006, 05:59 PM
I broke mine in Feb.(pretty cold).What do you think about the time of year for break-in?My fan never came on once during break-in(about a tank & a half).Is there such a thing as to cold of a break-in?By the way I'm pretty sure my compression is fine.I beat stock raptor 660 & YFZ 450 easy,with lighter guys on them all the time in drags,but my buddy's YFZ 450 with a full pipe & jets smokes me by 4 quad lengths every time.

BlasterEaten250
04-23-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by raptor brothers
I broke mine in Feb.(pretty cold).What do you think about the time of year for break-in?My fan never came on once during break-in(about a tank & a half).Is there such a thing as to cold of a break-in?By the way I'm pretty sure my compression is fine.I beat stock raptor 660 & YFZ 450 easy,with lighter guys on them all the time in drags,but my buddy's YFZ 450 with a full pipe & jets smokes me by 4 quad lengths every time. My brother broke his in while there was snow on the ground, and is having no problems at all.

Honda6sv
04-26-2006, 03:34 PM
Heat cycles, heat cycles heat cycles..get it hot, let it cool down...do it a good 4-5 times when breaking it in...

JIMTED79
05-01-2006, 09:43 AM
Whats up with this heat cycle stuff:confused: I have never done that on any bike or any motor, just let it get to full temp. then rode the hell out of it and have had no problems. So this fine line on breaking in bikes is BS.

Factory 450r
05-01-2006, 10:48 PM
I rebuilt my engine and broke it in just like I was going to ride it.



2 years later only thing that has broken is a couple of brake and clutch levers:D

Still has the same scary HP as before:rolleyes:

2004exrider
05-02-2006, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Honda6sv
Heat cycles, heat cycles heat cycles..get it hot, let it cool down...do it a good 4-5 times when breaking it in...

Heat cycles are only necessary when your breaking it in on a dyno. Its done because not enough air can pass by the engine or radiator to cool it down. But if your breaking it in while riding it your getting enough air passed it and no need to stop and let it cool down.

Jimmy

J-man67
05-05-2006, 06:13 PM
I believe in the ride it like you stole it method. I have done it on all my things no problems. My kawi 636 have over 25k on it. The dealer recnetly did a compression test on it and said its fuggin perfect. When I bought it, I hit 12k up to 4th gear right out of the dealer. In a str8 line of course b.c tires were cold, but it still runs fine. Better then my buddies who "broke his in correctly." This is an opinionated topic. And you know what they say about opinions.....they are like A-holes, everyone has one.

GooseZ400
05-27-2006, 08:57 AM
ride it like you stole it. anything thats goin to fail will fail anyways. just remember to change your oil after a tank of gas. get all those damn shavings out of there

duneaticdave
05-27-2006, 10:07 PM
i just ran the snot and piss out of my 440. omg it is crazy! havent had a problem yet, i had it done a year ago. i took it out to ocotillo wells and pinned that sucker. and it shows no sign of lettin up.

WickedATVer
05-30-2006, 05:48 PM
I gotta admit this whole post had me scared about breaking my 426 rebuild. My race was in two days so i filled ht oil let it circulate added what was needed. let it warm up coll down and rode it for 30 mins 1/4-1/2 throttle talked to a friend and decided it was gona break or stick went to a feild and gave it TO IT!! WOT back and forth making sure it got air and cooled well enough. now less than a week later it has 3 races on it and no sign of failure just some carb adjustments needed. So just make sure every thing is in order and UNLEASH HELL on the motor to seat the rings and you're golden.

beerock
05-30-2006, 07:56 PM
this thread is just like the threads i have read about TANK SLAPPERS on street bikes

half the people say slow down and the other half which are in the KNOW. know to get on the gas to get the weight off the front end.

fact of the matter is there is only one right way.

and its not giving the motor hell right after being built

one reason is, a fresh motor will have more metal particles floating around in the oil and wear will be much greater if givin HELL to it.

problem is this misinformation has been around along time and its not just on the internet.


SIGH:o

beerock
05-30-2006, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by WickedATVer
I gotta admit this whole post had me scared about breaking my 426 rebuild. My race was in two days so i filled ht oil let it circulate added what was needed. let it warm up coll down and rode it for 30 mins 1/4-1/2 throttle talked to a friend and decided it was gona break or stick went to a feild and gave it TO IT!! WOT back and forth making sure it got air and cooled well enough. now less than a week later it has 3 races on it and no sign of failure just some carb adjustments needed. So just make sure every thing is in order and UNLEASH HELL on the motor to seat the rings and you're golden.

how can you even say give it hell cuz your mtoor ran good. when in actuality you did baby it for about a half hour before you gave it hell....

dude, think before you write.

redrider9045
06-18-2006, 07:19 PM
Blaster eating 250 ur idea is good but i will never do it that way me and my friends have tore down alot of 450r motors and the way you say to break it in there a bunch of shat on top on the piston the way we break it in theres nothing

DamageInc
06-21-2006, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by beerock
this thread is just like the threads i have read about TANK SLAPPERS on street bikes

half the people say slow down and the other half which are in the KNOW. know to get on the gas to get the weight off the front end.

fact of the matter is there is only one right way.

and its not giving the motor hell right after being built

one reason is, a fresh motor will have more metal particles floating around in the oil and wear will be much greater if givin HELL to it.

problem is this misinformation has been around along time and its not just on the internet.


SIGH:o

The only "misinformation" I see in this thread is from people who think you should baby a new engine, or run it through "heat cycles" in the garage. Both of those are old school thinking from people who just didn't know any better. People just didn't understand the science behind how engines operated. Hell, only about 30 years ago (long after this "baby a new engine" philosophy originated) people were still running straght pipes on two strokes, when they could have been doubling their horsepower with expansion chambers! They just didn't know any better. Most of them also didn't understand principles like how rings seal from cylinder pressure (not ring tension), and babying it will allow blow-by. Or they thought that "heat cycling" an engine in your garage would change the metals in an engine, which were heat treated at thousands of degrees when they were made. Some people learn to accept that they were taught the wrong way, and others cling to their ignorance like white on rice. But that's OK, because it gives the rest of us an advantage, when the competition intentionally makes their machine slower by babying it during break-in.

And yeah, there are metal particles floating around, which is why you change the oil frequently during break-in. But the amount that you load the engine isn't going to change the wear that they cause. If it's causing damaging wear (compared to an easy break-in), then why are my bikes and sleds ALWAYS faster than the identical ones of people I know who break in the "easy" way? Why do my pistons ALWAYS look better (less blow-by showing under the rings) and have more compression, after thousands of miles? Because babying it is the worst thing you can do to your new/rebuilt engine.

I always check compression when I get a new machine, or rebuild an engine, so that I have something to compare with later. It will normally climb some after the rings seat (usually around 5-10%). But miraculously, I have never lost any compression from a hard break-in, and have never so much as scuffed a piston from it. How can that be, if a hard break-in is so bad for it? THINK ABOUT IT!!!

A race track is actually a nearly ideal place to break in your new quad, because it consists of many short, full throttle bursts, where you are constantly on and off the gas, which is just what you want. Long, wide-open runs are what you want to avoid during break-in (besides babying it).

gixer_boy99
07-25-2006, 10:05 PM
Take it to the track!!! There you dont go at one constant speed. Ride it for about a lap or 2 stop. Check it out.... Then go tear it up!!!!! DONT FORGET TO CHANGE YOU OIL THOUGH... I change my oil alot though...

beerock
07-26-2006, 12:53 AM
sorry damage inc I cant agree with you

theres something your not understanding about seating and i WONT explain it, sicne you know your motors run harder then identical motors broken in correctly

i take it you went to a automotive school and thats where you base your claims?

to be honest, it depends on the motor technology how you break a motor in.

GPracer2500
07-27-2006, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by beerock
...theres something your not understanding about seating and i WONT explain it...

Would you explain it for the benefit of the rest of us? I'd like to hear whatever it is DamageInc is missing....

GPracer2500
07-29-2006, 08:41 PM
My comment/question is about the difference between heat treatment and heat cycling. In the context of this discussion, I believe there is a difference. Heat treatment is a process of material hardening that occurs at the time of manufacture (quenching being a popular method). But heat cycling is a process of stress-relief. A piston has a lot of internal stress created by the forging process. The metal is literally beaten into shape and this has profound effects on the grain structure of the metal. Internal stress is created and cycles of heating and cooling releive that stress. I don't believe that the heat treatment that occurs during manufacture addresses stress-relief.

It should be noted that this only matters with forged pistons. Cast pistons (such as most stock pistons) do not require stress-relief (by nature of their uniform grain structure) and therefore don't require any heat cycles. Forged vs. cast pisons make a difference in how an engine should be broken in.

I'll save my thoughts on ring seating for another time...

Comments?

plkmonster2
07-29-2006, 11:44 PM
Well, I have my thoughts too. Motoman may have proven his ways, but I have proven my own. I have broken in 4 higher performance engines in my time. These included my 225DR 200E (Yamahas) my 110 ATC and my 400EX. I did the 400 and the 225 first. They were the halfway baby type, 1/4-1/2, then 1/4-3/4, etc for about one hour of run time. My 200E and the 110 were doen the motoman way, after I read about the article. Lets just say the 110 is not running. I didn't rev it up, or floor it, just gave it a lot of gas, and under a load. The rings gave up in 6 months. They started to smoke bad, and I started to loose compression.. Fast. One day it just stopped idling. About a week later, the chain broke, and shattered the case. I opened the motor up about a year ago. I found the two compression rings shattered, and in about 15 pieces apiece. They had hit the head, scored the walls, and RUINED the piston. The ring gaps had fused together. No wonder it didn't run! As for my 200e, I rebuilt it 2 years ago. it was my dad's, and the sparkplug was left out during wintwer for some reason. It pitted the cylinder. I got a barely used cylinder and piston, and rebuilt it with new rings, and a fresh hone. Did it again the motoman way. It had run "good" to this day. About 2 weeks ago it has started to smoke until it is warm.... I think It's time the tear it apart and do it again... the right way. Just letting you guys know this.. My 225 has run 5 or 6 years without a problem. Compression has not dropped, and it does not burn oil. Same with my 400ex.. Odd if you think of it.

gixer_boy99
07-30-2006, 12:53 AM
This is kind of a touchy subject I guess..... But think of this! How do top fuel dragsters break in the motors??? I know its kinda different but think about it if the motor is going to blow then it willl right off the bat... So thats why I think break it in like how its going to be rode... I do ran my bike in the garage for just a bit to break in the cam then I took it out and ran it hard for a little bit then I came back and changed my oil.. Then I changed it again after a tank of gas.....

GoldenGloves
07-31-2006, 04:46 AM
I have a simple theory.. Some may agree, some may disagree...

Now I'm sure that most of us on this board, dont baby our bikes all of the time, there is one point or another we're hauling ***.. So, basically...

You want to break in your engine to the best potential availible...

So the best way to break in your engine, is to to suit your riding..

If you plan on driving around the track or dunes like your Girlfriend or wife, baby that Quad when your first ride after you buy it or after your rebuild it, so the rings dont seal properly and arent adjusted to high speeds..

If you plan on driving around the track or dunes like a madman out of hell, ride your bike like you want it to be rode, adjust those rings to your type of riding, now I'm not saying start it out and first and bounce off the rev limiter in every gear, but be somewhat aggressive with it, to suit your type of riding...

If you baby it, they wont seal properly at first, they will be thinking, "okay he wants us to go slow, so we're sealed slow"

If you take it somewhat aggressive they will be thinking "damn, this guy likes this throttle, we have to be sealed to go fast"...

The best example I can give while being drunk.. :devil:

beerock
07-31-2006, 09:29 PM
dragster motors are built with special rings and tolerances that are tighter, and the newer tehcnology motors dont need to be broken in at all, but were talking about motorcycle motors not new car motors which have HIGH END technology and tolerances on the new motors are so much tighter with the new tehcnology that breaking in is a thing of the past.

its not so on motorcycle/quad 2 stroke or 4 stroke off road motors, not even the newer technology 450's

JJ69
09-01-2006, 05:49 AM
i dont know about 2 strokes.. but i bought a 2002 honda fourtrax 350, 2wd, i jumped it off the back ramp of the honda dealer and ripped her up the tracks wide open. i later adjusted the valves after a few hours, then i put a pipe/jet kit on it, but it was too loud, so i took off the pipe but left it jetted. I have had the bike since late '02 and have never had to touch the engine, and it works better than any 350 fourtrax i've seen stock.

when you first break in a bike, if you dont go past half throttle, then it is going to start wearing the cylinder only so far, when you really come on to it, it'll make it work harder and the bike will be worked in to your style of riding.
if your gonna take it easy on the bike forever, then keep er easy. if you plan to burn the piss out of it, then do so asap.

JJ69
09-01-2006, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Yellow400guy
this is all fine and good if u are rebuilding ur engine urself, but what about those who buy one brand new, and the dealership has doged em pullin in and out, and i konow this happens cus ive seen it. not even warming em up jsut start and give it hell.

I agree.. a friend of mine went on a job-shadowing experience at a Honda dealer, they let him ride all the bikes to put them away at closing, the dealership is just in front of some tracks, three or four of the guys after work just rip the bikes wide open down the tracks and then put them away. i'd rather them do it this way anyway, so anything thats gonna break from factory, is gonna break before i buy it.

beerock
09-01-2006, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by JJ69
i dont know about 2 strokes.. but i bought a 2002 honda fourtrax 350, 2wd, i jumped it off the back ramp of the honda dealer and ripped her up the tracks wide open. i later adjusted the valves after a few hours, then i put a pipe/jet kit on it, but it was too loud, so i took off the pipe but left it jetted. I have had the bike since late '02 and have never had to touch the engine, and it works better than any 350 fourtrax i've seen stock.

when you first break in a bike, if you dont go past half throttle, then it is going to start wearing the cylinder only so far, when you really come on to it, it'll make it work harder and the bike will be worked in to your style of riding.
if your gonna take it easy on the bike forever, then keep er easy. if you plan to burn the piss out of it, then do so asap.

I call BS cuz if you took the pipe off and left it jetted it would run like crap or at least foul plugs

JJ69
09-01-2006, 09:15 AM
no sir, it runs like a top.
it doesnt foul plugs.. i was told after i inquired about leaving it in that all it would do is run rich, and have no real long term troubles.. and its true.

beerock
09-01-2006, 09:40 AM
sounds like a good shop, let the bike run rich so you can foul plugs, leave carbon deposits on top of the head and ultimately need to be rebuilt sooner then later....

JJ69
09-01-2006, 09:56 AM
it wasnt a shop, it was a friend of mine who has worked on bikes for 20 years, he put it in for me and he uninstalled the pipe for me, the bike works much better than it did without the jet kit, and i've been running it for 4 years without a problem.

And.. anyone who drives the crap out of a bike knows they will have to rebuilt every few years anyway.. 4 years on a utility bike, jumping, spinning and driving wide open for hours over fire roads, and it still doesnt smoke, make noises or heat up. it runs like a damn top.
the day it blows up, i will let you know.
I can hit the governor at 86 kmph from 0 very quickly, if it didnt have a governor i have no doubt it would do a hundred clicks easily.

beerock
09-01-2006, 09:58 AM
hmm, doesnt sound like honda to jet bike LEAN from the factory. there usually rich...... and a jet kit will make it even richer.

as long as your happy i guess

but your losing power

m.h.s.c.#527
01-12-2007, 05:48 PM
is adjusting your valves necessary if so im screwed

soonerlightning
03-19-2007, 04:39 PM
just reading through here makes me feel like beerock knows everything about everything. You seem to come off like an arrogant person. Probably why this thread has made 5pages. More so everyone can argue with you than anything.I will break my engine in by letting it warm up then cool down check everything. Ride normal(fast/slow WFO/IDLE)for about an hour then change the oil and call it good

beerock
03-19-2007, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by soonerlightning
just reading through here makes me feel like beerock knows everything about everything. You seem to come off like an arrogant person. Probably why this thread has made 5pages. More so everyone can argue with you than anything.I will break my engine in by letting it warm up then cool down check everything. Ride normal(fast/slow WFO/IDLE)for about an hour then change the oil and call it good

your entitled to your opinion. maybe if you knew all the info ive helped people with you wouldnt think that.
do a search maybe youll see why

firefighterjosh
03-19-2007, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by beerock
hmm, doesnt sound like honda to jet bike LEAN from the factory. there usually rich...... and a jet kit will make it even richer.

as long as your happy i guess

but your losing power

No they come lean from the factory....hes jetting is prally almost on maybe a little rich

firefighterjosh
03-19-2007, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by m.h.s.c.#527
is adjusting your valves necessary if so im screwed

Yes! They need adjusted after the first service

beerock
03-19-2007, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by firefighterjosh
No they come lean from the factory....hes jetting is prally almost on maybe a little rich

sorry bro, no factory bike comes lean from the factory. there all jetted 2-3 sizes fatter then spot on at sea level

if they jetted bikes lean they would have a lot of bikes seizing up in cold weather...

firefighterjosh
03-19-2007, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by beerock
sorry bro, no factory bike comes lean from the factory. there all jetted 2-3 sizes fatter then spot on at sea level

if they jetted bikes lean they would have a lot of bikes seizing up in cold weather...

I did a search;) All Honda!

"fact,honda jets lean from factory for epa ,emm reasons. fact ,the colder it gets the leaner the machine will run . fact,my plug was white (to lean) .fact,my plug now has a nice tan color.fact,a tad ritch is better than a tad lean.fact,i only asked for advice on pilot screw.fiction,your advice"

"that is cuz they come a little lean from the factory."
"how long did you run with your air box lid off? these bikes are already lean from the factory. they are borderline too lean. if you ran like that for awhile, you may have done some internal damage, or even got something caught in the main jet. the first step would be to clean your carb before you reassemble from the "unplanned teardown".

"1. it is a cold blooded honda...but they seem to be a little harder to start...what ever you do, do not use any throttle when starting. also, these bikes are lean form the factory. turn up your idle just a hair."

"All good advise from above. Also if you are going to drive it in the winter I would recommend bump up the pilot to a 45 and the main Alittle these quads are lean from factory. That knoking sound is normal. My CRF was worse than my TRX never a problem.
"

Just to name a few:)

beerock
03-19-2007, 11:20 PM
dude your talking about ONE model bike, I know for a fact that most bikes are jetted rich from the factory Not all bikes but most are. your generalizing something from one type of bike and saying there all lean, thats not correct.

just give it a rest dude

firefighterjosh
03-19-2007, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by beerock
dude your talking about ONE model bike, I know for a fact that most bikes are jetted rich from the factory Not all bikes but most are. your generalizing something from one type of bike and saying there all lean, thats not correct.

just give it a rest dude

Accually those where from the 450 and 400ex threads:ermm:


I can find more if you would like me too:blah:

firefighterjosh
03-19-2007, 11:28 PM
I google "Honda jet lean from factory" and got alot of good articles. Then I searched "honda jet rich from factory" Only thing I could find was the 250r was jetted rich from the factory

bwamos
03-30-2007, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by beerock
dude your talking about ONE model bike, I know for a fact that most bikes are jetted rich from the factory Not all bikes but most are. your generalizing something from one type of bike and saying there all lean, thats not correct.

just give it a rest dude

300ex is jetted lean from the factory. Lean = low emmissions.
Not overly lean but about 14.5:1 Which means they don't have to put on a catalytic converter to meet the emmissions standards wich are supprisingly strict.

Look it up on the EPA site.

I like to run about 13.5:1

Rekd
03-30-2007, 02:06 PM
The engines I broke in by not going over half throttle all have flat spots. The ones I broke in hard run strong

Speaking of close tolerances, I can tell you as an aero-space and space-level machinist/programmer, the tolerances on an engine are not that close. They can't be, simply because of thermal expansion.

The damage you might do to the engine by running it hard during break in has the same chance of happening when you run it AFTER break in. It's just metal parts sliding together. That's it.

Ever buy that car from the little old lady that only drove it 55mph? It ran like crap when you drove it 65mph, didn't it? There's a good reason for that.

When you break in the motor weak, it's going to run weak.

sledneck1212
04-10-2007, 09:50 PM
whatever.....it's broken in when they seat the rings........done, Ive never had problems with anything ive ever owned and i ride hard, as soon as i get it.

honda6490
05-23-2007, 07:34 PM
just let it warm up, then beat the living **** out of it and it will go long and hard just like motoman says. I do this with everything and it works awsome. Sounds weird but hes right it sets the rings better if you put stress on the engine causing blowby gasses to seal the rings faster w/o wearing them down like a standard break in does.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

esquared
06-10-2007, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by quadzilla R450
i dis-agree i always break my new bikes in, in the same method as dicirbed by motoman and that is hard and fast and have had nothing but constant power with out any problems. Going to easy on your bike in the break in period will not let the bike set-up properly and will make it a weak bike compared to breaking it in this way Thats the way I break mine in .

250exkid
01-17-2008, 06:38 PM
from everything iv read the best thing i could come up with is to slowly run it for 10 seconds then run her HARD WOT But no for long just open it up here and there so the rings seat,. but dont hold it open for to long or it will put hot spots and warp it.. so to be in the middle of these to topice open it up Often and dont baby it to much just open it up drive it nice open it up and continue then change oil

DF400ex
02-08-2008, 07:49 AM
yeah I did it the mototune way with my bro's blaster a few years ago and again with my 400ex a year ago. They are both going strong to this day and the compression of the blaster is a lot higher after this rebuild than it was last year. That's using the exact same piston and ring combo on both builds.

250exkid
02-09-2008, 09:44 AM
so the way to go is run it hard like mototuned why?

DF400ex
02-09-2008, 01:01 PM
instead of me basically retyping everything on the mototune website, just go there and read it all yourself. It makes sense. I've done it on my 400ex and my Civic when it was new in 04. The Civic has almost 100k on it now and has never burned any oil to date. The Ex is running strong as ever as well.

bsjoe
06-11-2008, 07:05 PM
Think of it this way, you can be gentle in the break in, but you have to be gentle when you ride it forever.


If you ride it HARD for the break in, the engine will perform to its max and will work well when you ride it hard.

I have skipped every post except the first one, but basically put as much load as you can on it after it has warmed up to break it in.

The biggest reason why is to seat the rings. The closer rings are to the walls, the tighter the seal which prolongs the engine life and makes it more powerful.

I don't see why riding gentle will allow it to break it in.

beerock
06-12-2008, 06:12 PM
LOL you guys crack me up.

any good motor builder BREAKS in a motor. all the f1 engines, nascar engines, cart. ETC

there all broken in on a dyno

just because some guy tells everyone there doing it the wrong way and you should beat the crap out of it form the start is just rediculous.

someone on this thread posted if you break them in gentle you have to ride them gentle? LOL tell that to all the motors Ive built and broken in and beat the crap out of probably more then 90% then anyone on this forum.

You guys that are nay sayers keep it to yourself, this is the proper way for breaking in motorcycle and atv motors(with variations) but no way run t hard from the start.

running motors hard right from the start are for the newer technology engines that seat the rings very quickly and can even use synthetic oil right from the start.


breaking in a motor is a key aspect of how it will run in the long haul.

so go ahead run your motor hard, dont cry when it blows if you four corner seize it or pop a ring. blow a rod bearing

spanks
06-13-2008, 04:00 AM
well i run nitro rc cars and to them it is essential to heat cycle the engines you get it hot let it cool then get it hot then let it cool never going over half throttle for like 5 tanks> 1 tank last like 5-7 min depending how rich or lean your running. but with nitro engines they dont have rings they just have the sleeve pinched up top and if you baby it its very easy to seeze at TDC if you run it to hard you can snap the con rod to... the heat cycle lets the cylneder fit to the piston. you know how you heat up a part when you cant get a rusty bolt out it expands the metal and then when it cools it fits itself to the piston... just my 02 cents from my point of view

beerock
06-13-2008, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by spanks
well i run nitro rc cars and to them it is essential to heat cycle the engines you get it hot let it cool then get it hot then let it cool never going over half throttle for like 5 tanks> 1 tank last like 5-7 min depending how rich or lean your running. but with nitro engines they dont have rings they just have the sleeve pinched up top and if you baby it its very easy to seeze at TDC if you run it to hard you can snap the con rod to... the heat cycle lets the cylneder fit to the piston. you know how you heat up a part when you cant get a rusty bolt out it expands the metal and then when it cools it fits itself to the piston... just my 02 cents from my point of view

u sure about no rings?my is .60 had a ring


also when you break in a nitro motor your suppose to run low nitro with castor oil.

spanks
06-13-2008, 09:25 PM
nah ive re built like 10 diffrent rc truck engines i have a jato with a 3.3 in it now with over 7 gallons on it now wich is almost impossible to get haha

Yippie-Ki-Yay
07-02-2008, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by JJ69
I agree.. a friend of mine went on a job-shadowing experience at a Honda dealer, they let him ride all the bikes to put them away at closing, the dealership is just in front of some tracks, three or four of the guys after work just rip the bikes wide open down the tracks and then put them away. i'd rather them do it this way anyway, so anything thats gonna break from factory, is gonna break before i buy it. At the dealership im familiar with, the bikes they have out front for show, arent the ones the customer gets. They have crated ones in back. But, when you buy one, the mechanics put it together (battery ect..) they start it up, let it idle some, adjust it i think, then ride it to make sure it has no problems.

Yippie-Ki-Yay
07-02-2008, 08:24 AM
i read motomans thing, and they only talked about street bikes and stuff. What about atvs...with his method, how should an atv be broken in...Just like the street bike on track method..?:confused:

soonerlightning
07-03-2008, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by beerock
LOL you guys crack me up.

any good motor builder BREAKS in a motor. all the f1 engines, nascar engines, cart. ETC

there all broken in on a dyno

just because some guy tells everyone there doing it the wrong way and you should beat the crap out of it form the start is just rediculous.

someone on this thread posted if you break them in gentle you have to ride them gentle? LOL tell that to all the motors Ive built and broken in and beat the crap out of probably more then 90% then anyone on this forum.

You guys that are nay sayers keep it to yourself, this is the proper way for breaking in motorcycle and atv motors(with variations) but no way run t hard from the start.

running motors hard right from the start are for the newer technology engines that seat the rings very quickly and can even use synthetic oil right from the start.


breaking in a motor is a key aspect of how it will run in the long haul.

so go ahead run your motor hard, dont cry when it blows if you four corner seize it or pop a ring. blow a rod bearing

you might want to check into all the topfuel drag cars. They REBUILD their motors between rounds and their breakins are idle, idle to the line 300mph and park. Sure they have to rebuild often but they also have outrageous HP and compression and spin the RPM's to the moon. They may not do a 100% rebuild everytime but they will put a new piston/rings in 1 or 2 cylinders.


I used my own method. Run slow varying the RPM's from idle to 3/4 throttle for about 45mins. Change the oil and examine for contaminants (since the oil is clean at this point its easy to see anything that shouldnt be there). Then run it slowly up to full throttle for short bursts through the remaining first tank of gas. After that its balls out. I have had no problems with my build for about 8hrs (not very long I know).

bdtoady22
09-18-2008, 07:06 PM
my .02 you want to vary the engine rpm because the cylinder issplash lubracated the cross hatches on the cylinder act as a file to file fit the rings you have a limited time to do this im not say runer wide open for 30 mins or anything but you need to ride it if bearings or tolerences were an issue it would have scattered on start up or shortly there after start it listen let warm up and ride at diff rpms then beat the sh-- out of it go or blow baby!!!!!

beerock
09-18-2008, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by soonerlightning
you might want to check into all the topfuel drag cars. They REBUILD their motors between rounds and their breakins are idle, idle to the line 300mph and park. Sure they have to rebuild often but they also have outrageous HP and compression and spin the RPM's to the moon. They may not do a 100% rebuild everytime but they will put a new piston/rings in 1 or 2 cylinders.


I used my own method. Run slow varying the RPM's from idle to 3/4 throttle for about 45mins. Change the oil and examine for contaminants (since the oil is clean at this point its easy to see anything that shouldnt be there). Then run it slowly up to full throttle for short bursts through the remaining first tank of gas. After that its balls out. I have had no problems with my build for about 8hrs (not very long I know).


your right about top fuel dragsters however you didn't mention how they use rings that are soft and break in pretty much on start up.

thats one of the reasons they rebuild them every run because the rings wear that quick.


now obviously those rigns can go for more then one run. not much more then that though. it also depends on the rings softness to how long they will last all teams have different setups.

i could go on and on.

bdtoady22
09-19-2008, 06:09 PM
why r we talking about top fuel dragsters an atv engine and top fuel arent even in the same catogory

honda400ex2003
08-22-2009, 08:09 PM
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

this is waht i used. lol. mine runs good so far for almost 2 years. steve

f4iracer
09-27-2009, 12:37 PM
There is no fact about breaking in a motor. I would say do what you want. I've never heard of a motor failing because it had improper break-in.

I ran mine through the rpm's slowly for an hour and then i began to use the 4 wheeler as it was designed. I wasn't tearing it up but i was riding it through the gears and with throttle.

The first few pages of this post are just completely horrible advice. Anybody who goes 10 hours at no more than half throttle is just nuts! That kind of break-in is not necessary....run the engine!!!!!

I was going 3/4 to full throttle after an hour of engine break-in.

DF400ex
09-27-2009, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by bdtoady22
why r we talking about top fuel dragsters an atv engine and top fuel arent even in the same catogory

I found that a while ago and it's served my friends and I well for a while now. We our wheelers take a beating every weekend and no one has had issues related to an improper break in.

beerock
09-29-2009, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by f4iracer
There is no fact about breaking in a motor. I would say do what you want. I've never heard of a motor failing because it had improper break-in.

I ran mine through the rpm's slowly for an hour and then i began to use the 4 wheeler as it was designed. I wasn't tearing it up but i was riding it through the gears and with throttle.

The first few pages of this post are just completely horrible advice. Anybody who goes 10 hours at no more than half throttle is just nuts! That kind of break-in is not necessary....run the engine!!!!!

I was going 3/4 to full throttle after an hour of engine break-in.


you ever hear of four corner seizes?

its due to improper break in procedure

the piston gets larger then the cylinder and seizes itself to the walls. this happens when the pistons metalurgy is not heated and cooled properly

I'm so tired of people being objective of soemthing that holds true to any real profesional engine builder...


sigh

wckedclownz69
09-29-2009, 01:25 AM
im gonna be breaking mine in soon and im just gonna start it let it idle for a little then check for leaks and if it is good on oil.. then im just gonna ride it regular rip a little in all gear for a while just not go balls to the wall...not no rev limiter or full balls to the wall.. but just enough to get a good rip.. just cuz im cursed with this quad...

f4iracer
09-30-2009, 11:26 PM
dude....

a four corner seizure is from the piston over-heating, it has NOTHING to do with break-in at all. Yes, it expands and when the piston is fitted with too little clearance it does that. But......i wanna know somebody with a 400ex on here that has had a 4-corner seizure.....fess up folks! haha.

It happens alot more on high perfomance street motorcycles. A smart mechanic would say immediately that it was from not enough piston clearance.......not 'IMPROPER BREAK-IN".

nonsense people. this guy is full of it.

beerock
10-01-2009, 11:02 PM
whatever you say there champ

stumpjumper_09
11-23-2009, 06:05 PM
When I bought my sportsman 700 I flogged the crap out if it from day one........ big mistake!!! before it had 500 miles on it i was tearing it down, deglazing and installing new rings. I'm gonna try to break in the Brute a little more gently in hopes that it will last me a long time.

700xxmaniac
03-17-2010, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by stumpjumper_09
When I bought my sportsman 700 I flogged the crap out if it from day one........ big mistake!!! before it had 500 miles on it i was tearing it down, deglazing and installing new rings. I'm gonna try to break in the Brute a little more gently in hopes that it will last me a long time.


it wasnt the break in.. the polaris engines are **** i only had 50 hours on mine (with the right break in) and it needed new piston and cam

wingnut548
03-24-2010, 09:55 AM
I have been running drag bikes and cars for years.Some of the top engine builders in the world have told us on our drag motors to start them up and run them about 2000 - 3000 rpm for about 20 minutes and then shut it down recheck all fluids and go at it. Now our drag car runs about 900 horse power with 500 additional horse on three stages of nitrous. I have about 120 1/4 mile passes on our car and when we tore it down it all looked brand new inside. Now I have broke in both of my banshees in this manner and have never had a failure in an engine with probably around 150 builds over the years. The one thing that really make or breaks the build is attention payed to tolerances and always use quality fluids (like royal purple oils etc.) during the life of the engine. I have also seen alot of engine failures fail during the break-in due to people not properly setting up the jets and carbs to the right mixture ratios. They have an engine failure, rebuild and put it right back the way it was and have another failure becouse they did not correct the initial problem that caused the failure to begin with. Just my two cents on the subject. Not that anyone is right or wrong there are just many ways of doing things.:rolleyes:

flyjum
03-31-2010, 12:48 AM
Seizing is from the piston ring end gap being to small and the rings pushing against the other end of the ring making it push outward.

It can also be from a forged piston not being sized right.(too tight)

Piston slap in many GM v8's is the reverse of this. (to loose making it slap when its cold on startup)

On atv and race engines you need to run LARGE piston ring end gaps due to them expanding so much.( your gap on a wiseco should be the second or first largest ring end gap on the chart it should say turbo/race or turbo/nitrous ring gaps.)

Best way to break in an engine is to vary load and rpm.

That means 5% to 100% throttle usage and 2000 rpm to redline rpm usage normaly in higher gears (3-5 on atv 2-4 on car).

This will seat the rings with out glazing the walls. On all new cars they break the engines in this way before you even get the car.

Thumpin440ex
04-04-2010, 10:30 PM
Kinda of old but thread, I got a good laugh out of the thread.. True story. Back when I first bought my bike NEW in 2000, my buddy had the same bike.. He did the baby break in method. I was just a bit harder on my bike, but still changed the oil and checked the valves after the first tank of fuel. My 400 would walk past his on the top end all day long.. So we thought it could be the rider. I hopped on his bike, he hopped on mine, same thing. Like stated earlier, there is many diff ways people break there engines in... I have done cam swaps in performance engines( cars, boats) where it is right in the guide to break a cam in @ 3-4k for the first 20 min.. Key to the engine living is to change the oils, use a good break in oil, keep changing the engine R's during this.. Run it hard, just not to hard off the get.. It is true, if it is going to take a $hit it is going to do it...


TO FLYJUM

Another reason for piston slap in the lsx engines is mostly due to the fact of the piston design.. They have really short skirts on the pistons, have what is called piston rock at the bottom of the stroke.. :)

John

265 sleeper
06-18-2010, 12:24 PM
i never run my bike more than 5-10 min before the 3rd heat cycle then after that i dont go no more than 10-20 mins but always letting my bike cool in between rides never holding wot in till ive let it cool 5-8 times never had a problem from banshees, blasters ,and 250rs as well as 4 polks that ive built and owned . my first blaster i built still running after 2 years of me riding it hard and i sold it to a kid that i know didnt take care of it he still riding it to this day and is trying to sell it has not goin through top end still holding psi at 155 after 5 years of use

Honda4life05
07-18-2010, 10:11 PM
i just rebulit my honda 450r 15 hrs. ago and broke it in easily with heat cycles. THAT WAS THE WRONG MOVE! it is now in the shop getting new rings put on. It had such low compression that it wouldn't run right at high rpm. this time i'm going to brake it in just like i ride it. HARD.

firefighterjosh
07-19-2010, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Honda4life05
i just rebulit my honda 450r 15 hrs. ago and broke it in easily with heat cycles. THAT WAS THE WRONG MOVE! it is now in the shop getting new rings put on. It had such low compression that it wouldn't run right at high rpm. this time i'm going to brake it in just like i ride it. HARD.

How did you do it?

You need to let the engine warm up, and put a load on it for the rings to break in properly. Takes about 3 cycles.

On race engine we normally put it on a dyno and rev the engine to about 3k and put a load on the engine. Let it cool down over night and do the same in the morning.