Honda reliablility strikes again

[ThumPIN_450R]

Well after listening to what you guys had to say on here about my 04 blowing up so many times and that it may be a lemon I decided to go pick up a nice black 05 450R and give honda another chance. Then roughly 4 weeks after buying this quad which was yesterday I was riding it and this motor locked up solid as I have done many times in the past with my 04. Oil filter is packed full of metal just the same as the time my 04 locked up the lower rod bearing so that is my guess as to what the problem is. I will tear it down tommorow and update you on what the issue is this time.

[red4r]

weird u must have sum back luck i have and 05 and been running it hard and have 0 problems with it....

[compedge]

There is a new replacement crank for the 04-05's. When I ordered mine it was on back order , then when it cam in it was a diffrent part #.

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by compedge
There is a new replacement crank for the 04-05's. When I ordered mine it was on back order , then when it cam in it was a diffrent part #.

I am aware of this already I think we both had new cranks on order at the same time.

[drider]

i agree too, must be bad luck, just bad timing, etc.. i have an 04 and a 05. Zer0 problems.none at all..

[MAD450r]

I've got a freind that no matter what he rides, he manages to break it. He just ride's really hard. I know he's tried just about every brand and still breaks them all

My guess is to change the oil more often if you ride on the limiter as I do alot.

If you change the oil more you can see the metal before its too late.

I change my oil every 10 hours at the very most.

Hope you have better luck once you get it back together.

[Flynbryan19]

I had heard when the 05's first came out that many of them were having lower crank bearing failures. Did you buy the quad new or used? If you bought it new you should be able to get it warrantied. :(

[Abrannan19]

should have of bought an 06'.well it probably wouldn't have made a diffrence..sounds like you are rough on equipment.:D

[jb500ex]

do not buy an 06, there are more unhappy people with that and im one of them

[zeus54]

Originally posted by jb500ex
do not buy an 06, there are more unhappy people with that and im one of them


what prob's have you had? its not every day i see a post about honda's "failing" due to being ridden hard, alot of times people get bashed for this and that and it really burns my a** to see so much time wasted arguing and judging people for their choices.thumpin let me know if need some help with it.

[jb500ex]

the electric start is an absolute joke, and the front end is not as good as the 04-05. Also i liked the old carb much better the fcr is a pain to get jetted properly

[zeus54]

Originally posted by jb500ex
the electric start is an absolute joke, and the front end is not as good as the 04-05. Also i liked the old carb much better the fcr is a pain to get jetted properly



i agree the carb is finicky and it took me alot of seat time to get it right.how is the front end not as "good" is it to stiff or is it a handling issue?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Flynbryan19
I had heard when the 05's first came out that many of them were having lower crank bearing failures. Did you buy the quad new or used? If you bought it new you should be able to get it warrantied. :(

[clutt225]

If it breaks then it wasn't strong enough. Try this it's not that much more money and should hold together better. At least I hope so cause the wallet is geting bare.

[clutt225]

There are a few options from Falicon but I went with the stock crank rebuild and ballance with the Knife rod. The ballaced crank should be easier on the bearings.

[clutt225]

Now I should state that mine was not bearing failure it was the top of the con rod. this pic will show how Falicon has adressed this problem. the holes in the top of the rod will allow oil to run in to the pin. The stock con rod has no holes. Good luck and remember if stock wont take the abuse then sombody makes somthing that will.

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by zeus54
i agree the carb is finicky and it took me alot of seat time to get it right.how is the front end not as "good" is it to stiff or is it a handling issue?
the new shocks are too stiff but with the new spindles it's more of a handling issue. Alot of people are using the 04 05 front ends, and i will be switching this week

[MAD450r]

Sorry to hijack your post :( But I just wonder its going to cost me once my warrenty is up to go through my motor to make it run a few more years as it has for me so far.
Would be nice to add a bit more power at the same time

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by MAD450r
I've got a freind that no matter what he rides, he manages to break it. He just ride's really hard. I know he's tried just about every brand and still breaks them all

My guess is to change the oil more often if you ride on the limiter as I do alot.

If you change the oil more you can see the metal before its too late.

I change my oil every 10 hours at the very most.

Hope you have better luck once you get it back together.

:eek2: every 10 hours!!!! dang! i change mine every other ride... lol

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by jb500ex
the electric start is an absolute joke, and the front end is not as good as the 04-05. Also i liked the old carb much better the fcr is a pain to get jetted properly

Obviously the front end IS better... or HONDA wouldnt had changed it... becasue they knwo what the heck there doing, if you think its worse... i'm pretty sure honda can shove there changes right back in your face....

not bashing... just sayin

[ThumPIN_450R]

I just got it apart and it was the lower rod bearing, the same as one of my previous problems on my 04. This time the cases weren't destroyed so I think all I'm looking at is a new crank and crank bearings, new oil screen and oil cooler and oil pump. Considerable less damage costs than my last engine explosion.

Originally posted by ThumPIN_450R
I just got it apart and it was the lower rod bearing, the same as one of my previous problems on my 04. This time the cases weren't destroyed so I think all I'm looking at is a new crank and crank bearings, new oil screen and oil cooler and oil pump. Considerable less damage costs than my last engine explosion. do you remove the rev limiter or something when you ride?

[lafinrat]

not accusing you of doing this, but i put 2 cranks in a 450r with rod brg failures--the only ones i've seen to date. both times i replaced the cooler, both pump gears, strainer, crank assy, and various other parts. i could find nothing else wrong.

well................the last time he came to pick it up, i happened to watch him load it. he got his ramp out, walked up to the quad, fired it, immediately and repeatedly rapped the engine on the way to his truck. he later said he thought it sounded cool and he was so impressed with the throttle response that he couldn't resist repeatedly revving the engine long, long before the lower rod bearing had any pressurized oil. i showed him how small the 450r oil pump is and how big the oil cooler lines are and explained how long it takes to fill all of that--especially if the bike sits for a long time. and asked him to run the engine moderately for at least 5-10 seconds after he starts it. that was 8 months ago, and his bike still has the same rod bearing in it.

he bought the bike used--about a year old--wasted a rod bearing in 1 month, wasted another in 2 months. now it has lasted 8.

just some thoughts. cheers

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by lafinrat
not accusing you of doing this, but i put 2 cranks in a 450r with rod brg failures--the only ones i've seen to date. both times i replaced the cooler, both pump gears, strainer, crank assy, and various other parts. i could find nothing else wrong.

well................the last time he came to pick it up, i happened to watch him load it. he got his ramp out, walked up to the quad, fired it, immediately and repeatedly rapped the engine on the way to his truck. he later said he thought it sounded cool and he was so impressed with the throttle response that he couldn't resist repeatedly revving the engine long, long before the lower rod bearing had any pressurized oil. i showed him how small the 450r oil pump is and how big the oil cooler lines are and explained how long it takes to fill all of that--especially if the bike sits for a long time. and asked him to run the engine moderately for at least 5-10 seconds after he starts it. that was 8 months ago, and his bike still has the same rod bearing in it.

he bought the bike used--about a year old--wasted a rod bearing in 1 month, wasted another in 2 months. now it has lasted 8.

just some thoughts. cheers


I let mine warm up at idle for at least a minute if not more every time since it has been cold out lately and when it's hot I'll give it about 30 or so seconds.

Mixmastermike I use the Vortex ignition but I never run it all the way to the limiter while riding I can feel the motor stop pulling before I get to it any ways.

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
Obviously the front end IS better... or HONDA wouldnt had changed it... becasue they knwo what the heck there doing, if you think its worse... i'm pretty sure honda can shove there changes right back in your face....

not bashing... just sayin
hey junior thats why most of the people racing them are switching too the 05 front end. And people that i have talked too that make a-arms are wondering why they changed. why don't you try talking too some people that know what they are talking about. Changes are not always for the better.So maybe i will shove the changes in your face

[Quad Boy 660r]

ThumpIn, what is you're break in procedure like? I am not saying that is the problem, just an idea.

Shoulda got a Yamaha.

[Quad Boy 660r]

yup

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by ThumPIN_450R
I let mine warm up at idle for at least a minute if not more every time since it has been cold out lately and when it's hot I'll give it about 30 or so seconds.

Mixmastermike I use the Vortex ignition but I never run it all the way to the limiter while riding I can feel the motor stop pulling before I get to it any ways.

I couldn't imagine that short a warm-up time. I will start mine and bearly give it any throttle (or just enough to keep it from stalling) until the cylinder is hot to touch. I do the same with my 250R's. Just my way of doing things.

[Quad Boy 660r]

hellllooo?:D :

[Quad Boy 660r]

Everyone- Ignore my last 2 posts, my bro was playing with the computer while I ate.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by jb500ex
hey junior thats why most of the people racing them are switching too the 05 front end. And people that i have talked too that make a-arms are wondering why they changed. why don't you try talking too some people that know what they are talking about. Changes are not always for the better.So maybe i will shove the changes in your face

What exactly did honda change about the spindles? I know they were changed but what was it that changed? Also from what I've heard on stock arms, the spindles dont help much but with aftermarket wider arms the new spindles really shine....just like to hear your thoughts on this?:)

[Diedrich]

i got an 06 i dont have one bad thing to say about it..and for the frontend, i havent rode 04's and 05's much but mine feels fine...and plus anyone that races should buy a aftermarket frontend anyways

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
I couldn't imagine that short a warm-up time. I will start mine and bearly give it any throttle (or just enough to keep it from stalling) until the cylinder is hot to touch. I do the same with my 250R's. Just my way of doing things.

You didn't happen to notice that I said at least? I usually don't time my warm ups but it is always at least that long.

[CFRacer03]

Originally posted by jb500ex
hey junior thats why most of the people racing them are switching too the 05 front end. And people that i have talked too that make a-arms are wondering why they changed. why don't you try talking too some people that know what they are talking about. Changes are not always for the better.So maybe i will shove the changes in your face


hey junior, One_Bad_400 and I have actually talked to several aftermarket a-arm companies while looking for who to use to put together our suspension setup for the '06 season and none of them have recommended or even mentioned changing back to the '05 parts. And these are people who DO know what they are talking about.

Also, changes may not always be for the better, but for Honda to invest MILLIONS of dollars R&Ding new suspension parts and mass producing all new parts, I'm gonna say it was a positive change. They could have easily slapped on the old parts and saved millions of dollars

[Fred55]

Originally posted by ThumPIN_450R
You didn't happen to notice that I said at least? I usually don't time my warm ups but it is always at least that long.

for all my quads to warm them up i usually grab the rad. hose and until i can feel some good heat from it, then click it into gear and ride for about a min slowly

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
What exactly did honda change about the spindles? I know they were changed but what was it that changed? Also from what I've heard on stock arms, the spindles dont help much but with aftermarket wider arms the new spindles really shine....just like to hear your thoughts on this?:)

Anyone know?

[QuadJunkies]

That really blows.. Im sorry to hear the news :(

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
What exactly did honda change about the spindles? I know they were changed but what was it that changed? Also from what I've heard on stock arms, the spindles dont help much but with aftermarket wider arms the new spindles really shine....just like to hear your thoughts on this?:)
there were a couple of changes, one is the the spindle is farther away from the ball joints giving the feel of putting spacers on. they also changed the angle of them or something. I have an aftermarket front end that i raced this past weekend and it was horrible. Thats what got me to ask around. Also several people said when adjusting the ride height don't set the front higher than the rear it makes the front push more on the 06.

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by CFRacer03
hey junior, One_Bad_400 and I have actually talked to several aftermarket a-arm companies while looking for who to use to put together our suspension setup for the '06 season and none of them have recommended or even mentioned changing back to the '05 parts. And these are people who DO know what they are talking about.

Also, changes may not always be for the better, but for Honda to invest MILLIONS of dollars R&Ding new suspension parts and mass producing all new parts, I'm gonna say it was a positive change. They could have easily slapped on the old parts and saved millions of dollars
Oh thats right i forgot i don't know anyone who know's what they are talking about.

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
That really blows.. Im sorry to hear the news :(

thanks QJ, at least it turned into a good debate about 05 vs 06 front suspension though.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by ThumPIN_450R
thanks QJ, at least it turned into a good debate about 05 vs 06 front suspension though.

LOL.. I just feel soooo bad for you! You remind me of what my Hubby Troy went threw on his quad, he rides hard, but things wouldnt last more than one day and it swas ALWAYS something major that would go out ,noting that had to do with hard riding either really.
We just bought an 06 two days ago, I hope we go problem free for years to come

[CFRacer03]

Originally posted by jb500ex
Oh thats right i forgot i don't know anyone who know's what they are talking about.

I read back over my post just to make sure, but I didn't speculate on who you do or do not know. You just must have mental problems caused by those supplements you take, because I never said that at all. Everybody has thier opinions and riding sytles, people like different suspension setups, people like different tires that handle different, bite different, slide different, whatever. So you just go back to riding your '05 front end and taking your supplements while the rest of us train harder and practice more to become better riders on our '06 front ends.

[jb500ex]

the two of you are a bunch of wise ***'s and i hope to see you at a race soon. I will bring my supplements and show you how they work

[450robot]

o yah, and btw, the spindles were not moved farther out you jackass! they were set at an angle to create more of an offset chamber (along with the front lower a arm tube).

you sir, have no idea of what YOU are talking about!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 450robot
o yah, and btw, the spindles were not moved farther out you jackass! they were set at an angle to create more of an offset chamber (along with the front lower a arm tube).

you sir, have no idea of what YOU are talking about!

Thank you, finally someone who can give me an answer besides they changed the angle or something. lol, thanks

oh and its camber btw, not chamber :blah:

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by 450robot
o yah, and btw, the spindles were not moved farther out you jackass! they were set at an angle to create more of an offset chamber (along with the front lower a arm tube).

you sir, have no idea of what YOU are talking about!
here you go math professor, the 06 first

[jb500ex]

just over 4 1/2" from the center of the ball joint to the rim side of the hub

[jb500ex]

now the 04

[jb500ex]

the 04 is 4" measuring from the same spot. the bottom has a little over a 1/4" difference. 450robot do you need me too explain what i believe is the negative too this. But probably not since you seem to know it all

[jb500ex]

also look at how far the tie rod end is away from the wheel on the 06 compared too the 04 05

[CFRacer03]

Originally posted by jb500ex
the two of you are a bunch of wise ***'s and i hope to see you at a race soon. I will bring my supplements and show you how they work

I know how supplements work, I've been around the fitness/body building scene for years. A good friend of mine owns a supplement website. I just see as being lazy, you can achieve the same results by just working harder, and you will appreciate your success a lot more. I spend about 2 hours a day, 5-6 days a week in the gym, lifting weights and doin cardio. That doesn't include other forms of exercise that I do quite frequently, racquetball, tennis, volleyball. But when I compete and win in any sport its worth it, knowing I worked my *** off for it.

[JIMTED79]

Originally posted by CFRacer03
hey junior, One_Bad_400 and I have actually talked to several aftermarket a-arm companies while looking for who to use to put together our suspension setup for the '06 season and none of them have recommended or even mentioned changing back to the '05 parts. And these are people who DO know what they are talking about.

Also, changes may not always be for the better, but for Honda to invest MILLIONS of dollars R&Ding new suspension parts and mass producing all new parts, I'm gonna say it was a positive change. They could have easily slapped on the old parts and saved millions of dollars

Ya just look at all the money honda R&D saved them on that crank bearing switch in 05:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by JIMTED79
Ya just look at all the money honda R&D saved them on that crank bearing switch in 05:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
thats a good one. don't forget the switch too electric start and how many people are happy with that

[lafinrat]

Originally posted by jb500ex
just over 4 1/2" from the center of the ball joint to the rim side of the hub

the dimension you are measuring is called 'scrub radius'. effectively it is the same as different offset wheels. increasing the scrub radius (what Honda did in '06) will essentially give the tire more leverage on the rider's arm. if Honda did this, without changing the steering arm dimensions on the stem, it would make the bike handle worse in my opinion. since the 04/05's i have ridden already feel as if they need a steering stabilizer to keep from ripping my arms off, i can't imagine how the 06 feels, but then again i haven't ridden one yet. i've just raced a bunch of them and was lack of impressed.

[aroracer72]

Its the aluminum thrust washers and there thickness in diameter that cause these failures. Only way to fix this problem is buy a Duncan Racing crank or a Falicon. I HIGHLY recommend a falicon, they hold up three seasons plus with pro racing wear on it, WITHOUT needing repairs. Though you pay for what you get...... 900 for the crank.
CHAD

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by lafinrat
the dimension you are measuring is called 'scrub radius'. effectively it is the same as different offset wheels. increasing the scrub radius (what Honda did in '06) will essentially give the tire more leverage on the rider's arm. if Honda did this, without changing the steering arm dimensions on the stem, it would make the bike handle worse in my opinion. since the 04/05's i have ridden already feel as if they need a steering stabilizer to keep from ripping my arms off, i can't imagine how the 06 feels, but then again i haven't ridden one yet. i've just raced a bunch of them and was lack of impressed.
exactly, and the 06 does handle worse. i felt like i was fighting it all race long. Since i only have a total of 2 hours on the quad play riding i did not notice this until the race. Then i started asking around and got some answers. The new motor is awesome though.

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by jb500ex
hey junior thats why most of the people racing them are switching too the 05 front end. And people that i have talked too that make a-arms are wondering why they changed. why don't you try talking too some people that know what they are talking about. Changes are not always for the better.So maybe i will shove the changes in your face .

ok... so... then why did honda change them?

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by jb500ex
the two of you are a bunch of wise ***'s and i hope to see you at a race soon. I will bring my supplements and show you how they work

ok... i will see you at the races.. and i'll show you my hard work i've put in to be in this awesome of a same... as in i go to the track and run 2 tank fulls as hard as i can, balls to the walls, and get slim to none arm pump and not be tired at all... you know waht that is.. hours of training and practic... besides hours of suplaments... and you know what i'm going to do with the supplements after you lose... shove them strait up your ***... ok? maybe they'll work better like that...

[aroracer72]

Supplements....real men ride 120 miles of sandy whooped out trail system with a average speed of 55mph in 100degree weather with 90 percent humidity!!!!...thast the way to get in shape!!!!..RIDE HARD!!!!!!
CHAD

[CFRacer03]

Originally posted by aroracer72
Supplements....real men ride 120 miles of sandy whooped out trail system with a average speed of 55mph in 100degree weather with 90 percent humidity!!!!...thast the way to get in shape!!!!..RIDE HARD!!!!!!
CHAD

thats what i'm talkin about, go CHAD

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
ok... i will see you at the races.. and i'll show you my hard work i've put in to be in this awesome of a same... as in i go to the track and run 2 tank fulls as hard as i can, balls to the walls, and get slim to none arm pump and not be tired at all... you know waht that is.. hours of training and practic... besides hours of suplaments... and you know what i'm going to do with the supplements after you lose... shove them strait up your ***... ok? maybe they'll work better like that...
lucky for you i will be in missouri may 5th-7th, kentucky june 9th-11th, and indiana oct 20-22, i hope you make the drive up. Come up too my booth and try to shove them up my ***, and don't back out because i want too see you now. I don't train at all and watch how fast i knock you out

[aroracer72]

Okay Okay.......lets all just give each other a big hug and throw our punches in forms of roosts and passes. This got out of hand, soo lets all chill. Lets all go beat up a pillow, that will calm us down.
CHAD

[450rboy]

well about the first month or so i had it my locked up on me too. but i think it was my fault it did that becuase i was putting the wrong gas in it and it didn't run as good as the 92 did. i was putting 87 in it. i did it ever so often because i didn't have any 92 lying around the garage. so i put the 87 in it. i was so happy i got the warranty. it craked the case and every did all kinds of things to it. but i havn't had any problems sence then since i have been runing 92 or higher through it.

[aroracer72]

Yeah that sucks, but you CANT run anything lower then 92 in these quads. They arnt your old 400ex's or 250ex's.....lol. Running low octane gas and NO break in procedure is the cause for these bikes to fail for all these people. I dont care what anyone says, i build engines and breaking in makes your engine last alot longer.
CHAD

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by aroracer72
Yeah that sucks, but you CANT run anything lower then 92 in these quads. They arnt your old 400ex's or 250ex's.....lol. Running low octane gas and NO break in procedure is the cause for these bikes to fail for all these people. I dont care what anyone says, i build engines and breaking in makes your engine last alot longer.
CHAD

I picked this thing up used so I can't tell you what the break in procedure was like on it. I can tell you that I was running vp C12 fuel so octane shouldn't have been an issue especially with the fact that it was the lower rod bearing that locked up that has nothing to do with the octane of the motor any ways.

[CFRacer03]

Originally posted by jb500ex
lucky for you i will be in missouri may 5th-7th, kentucky june 9th-11th, and indiana oct 20-22, i hope you make the drive up. Come up too my booth and try to shove them up my ***, and don't back out because i want too see you now. I don't train at all and watch how fast i knock you out


Well, to take an online forum argurment all the way up to an actual physical threat is ridiculous, so I refer back to my previous statement that you have mental problems.

As I said, for you to threaten actually fighting over an online forum argument is immature and ridiculous, but since you started it I guess I gotta defend myself, and I promise you if any knocking out is done by you to One_Bad_400, you'll end up in the closest hospital and may not ever get out;)

[jb500ex]

Originally posted by CFRacer03
Well, to take an online forum argurment all the way up to an actual physical threat is ridiculous, so I refer back to my previous statement that you have mental problems.

As I said, for you to threaten actually fighting over an online forum argument is immature and ridiculous, but since you started it I guess I gotta defend myself, and I promise you if any knocking out is done by you to One_Bad_400, you'll end up in the closest hospital and may not ever get out;)
. Yes and now after your little wise *** attitude i have threatened. And i hope you come with him , i won't be the one in the hospital. Thats a promise. I hope too see you guy's really soon

Originally posted by jb500ex
. Yes and now after your little wise *** attitude i have threatened. And i hope you come with him , i won't be the one in the hospital. Thats a promise. I hope too see you guy's really soon man this is hilarious

[aroracer72]

Well, you are half right about octane not affecting the bottom end. Low octane rating causes pinging and misfire and pounds on the piston, which as you can then guess...travels stress down to the crank and pounds on the bearings!!!...everything in a motor affects everything else!!!...Just sometimes its not easy to see it. You are running great gas, but its all about break in, if the guy before you jsut got it and drove it like normal or even a little nice.....it puts too much stress on the unbroken in parts. REGARDLESS of what people say the facotires do, when you buy a ne quad you should do two idle sessions, in which you DONT touch the gas, and you let it fully cool down in between. Then you ride it nice for aboiut an hour varying teh RPM"s but never causing a load on the engine. Just a smooth lightly gas'd ride..then give her hell. Alot will say this isnt neccessary and these things are made to rip from teh factory....and after rebuilds....but thats balogne. You gotta do this to heat treat the bearing and parts and seat them into each other.
CHAD

[MR.BIG]

Originally posted by jb500ex
. Yes and now after your little wise *** attitude i have threatened. And i hope you come with him , i won't be the one in the hospital. Thats a promise. I hope too see you guy's really soon

Come on kids calm down. Fight, Fight, Fight! lol

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by jb500ex
. Yes and now after your little wise *** attitude i have threatened. And i hope you come with him , i won't be the one in the hospital. Thats a promise. I hope too see you guy's really soon

alright bub... what class you runnin...

[CFRacer03]

i'm done with this argument after this, I just need to know a few things

will you be at any of the Dirt Track Nationals? If so, which ones?

If not, which MX nationals will you be at?

If so, will you have a booth for you lazy *** supplement so that I can find you? If so, I will be the guy that picks up your pills, then says something along the lines of "What a joke" or "Only lazy *** people take these" and then throw them down

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by jb500ex
. Yes and now after your little wise *** attitude i have threatened. And i hope you come with him , i won't be the one in the hospital. Thats a promise. I hope too see you guy's really soon

also... you know what the funny part is... your picking a fight with a 15 year old... HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[aroracer72]

Easy now fella's...before i have to stab someone in the face with a gun........
CHAD

[JIMTED79]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
also... you know what the funny part is... your picking a fight with a 15 year old... HAHAHAHAHA!!!

That makes a lot of sense now how old is your boy CFRacer03 12?