06 450er hard starting?

[GEARSMOKER]

my buddy just picked up his 06 450er. he's having some troubles trying to dead start it (since we race cross country he's trying to practice those starts). anyone else having trouble with it not starting right away,and if so,what can be done to correct the problem? thanks fellas.:D

[ryann mx68]

do a search, there is a ton of posts on this. [hard starting]

free tip: dont even breathe on the throttle when pushing the start button

[450rJam]

turn idle up and dont touch the gas until after its started, pump the throtle 3 times before pushing the start button helps.

[313racing]

Same thing with my bike the only thing is i just wait for that minute to get the bike to start idoling.
i hear some guys are putting bigger batteries in to help out, i also hear with the bigger battery the bike starts almost right away.
idk maybe this helped some

[440xcex]

Anybody havr any tricks for starting 06 after you stall it?I already read searchs and didnt find any help.somebody said it was a timing issue,i race xc and this a problem.THANKS!!

[450rJam]

if you stall it after riding it hard it sucks alot ! its happend to me 2 times, it seems the battery just cant turn it hard enough kind of like its not getting fire, once I had just made it to top of large hill and let off gas and it kind of made a pop noise when I went to take off and died. I tried to start it but nope so I didnt want to run the battery down I turned it around and roll started it back down the hill. The other time was in the shut down area of the local drag strip (not a good place at all) not that right at the top of a hill is a good spot. it was same deal but with no hill I waved my son down and he brought over a tie down and we pull started it. I will say that it has not happened since the idle has been turned up.

[400excracer]

The batteries are going bad because they are a sealed type that was installed at the factory and has been sitting for too long. If batteries sit too long without use they go bad. A bigger battery is not the answer. A properly maintained battery will work just fine.

[quadfam4]

Make sure your starting it out of gear! Have you done any mods? My bike didn't have PROBLEMS starting b/4 installing HRC but it starts even easier now. Only prob starting is if I stab the throttle at low speed and kill it then doesn't start immediately sometimes.

[compedge]

I went riding with two of my freinds with 06's today. And honda should have made them kick and e start. one of the bikes have about 10 hours on it with a full rossier and a hc2 cam. He keeps jumper cables under he's seat. And the other 06 was on it's first ride and it had to be jumped or push started about 1/2 the time. What a pain in the butt this was. They both were giving me crap before we went riding about how easy it is to start there bikes. Just push the button. There mouth was shut when the bike wouldent turn over and the guy with cables was already gone. I just gave mine one kick and I was ready to go.
Honda did a very poor job on the starting system on the 06.

[lumi]

my bike starts up great all the time, when startting it up after every other day or week and w.w., i put on choke, keep gas off ,over night and everytime u shut the quad off , than i turn the gas to on or res, turn switch on and turn key and hit the starter button with the gear in neutral. make sure to put the quad in neutral when u start it everytime even after a stall, dont hold the start more than 5 seconds, and let the starter cooll off after a couple trys, and after every 5 sec elec crank, if it dont start wait 5 seconds and try again. hope this helps.

[compedge]

The bike with 10hours on it sat at my shop for 2 days. I went to show a customer the exhaust so I put it in nutral, put on the choke and hit the start button and it turned over for 2 sec and died. It wouldnt turn over again. When I put the charger on it at 2amps it would fully charge the battery in 4 minutes. Sounds like a weak battery or a starter thats drawing to many amps.

[Jonas]

Originally posted by compedge
I went riding with two of my freinds with 06's today. And honda should have made them kick and e start. one of the bikes have about 10 hours on it with a full rossier and a hc2 cam. He keeps jumper cables under he's seat. And the other 06 was on it's first ride and it had to be jumped or push started about 1/2 the time. What a pain in the butt this was. They both were giving me crap before we went riding about how easy it is to start there bikes. Just push the button. There mouth was shut when the bike wouldent turn over and the guy with cables was already gone. I just gave mine one kick and I was ready to go.
Honda did a very poor job on the starting system on the 06.

Who knows where the jetting is on the one with the full Rossier?? Have they already turned up their idle and stay off the gas like everyone says to do. Mine and my buddy's 06 start no problem.

[450rJam]

man oh man I was trail riding with my kids today and it seemed to be getting a little warm (still never seen fan run) so I turned idle back down a little and boom she stalled, at the bottom of a hill and would NOT start. I pushed it up a small hill and tried to roll start it, 2nd just locked up rear tires. so 2nd time pushing it up the hill I roll started it in 4th and she fired right up, I gave the idle a twist and rode the rest the day with no problems. very irritating after dropping 7k on the thing.

[Jonas]

Originally posted by 450rJam
man oh man I was trail riding with my kids today and it seemed to be getting a little warm (still never seen fan run) so I turned idle back down a little and boom she stalled, at the bottom of a hill and would NOT start. I pushed it up a small hill and tried to roll start it, 2nd just locked up rear tires. so 2nd time pushing it up the hill I roll started it in 4th and she fired right up, I gave the idle a twist and rode the rest the day with no problems. very irritating after dropping 7k on the thing.

If your temp light goes on for a second when you are starting it then it fuctions perfectly and you won't have to worry. Just keep the idle up and you won't have a problem with overheating unless your radiator gets packed with mud or something. Don't forget, this bike is meant to be reved up a little.

[GEARSMOKER]

thanks for all the reponse guys,we'll try some of the remedies and let you all know.

[lumi]

my freinds yfz has a super high idle and sometimes he trys to turn it down and it still idles high after every other warm up he has the same problem if he stalls it after letting it warm up, well lets just say he wont get it started after another 10 minutes, i guess it just these damn 4 strokes!

[tolson]

sorry to beat a dead horse, but i just had the same thing happen at the race this weekend. warmed it up - would'nt start on the line. took some time (15-30 sec.) put me way back sucks. couple questions:

1. higher idle will help stalling, not starting, right?
2. charged battery helps better starts? like a trickle charger.
3. does it have to be in neutral to start? the manual says no, but others have said yes.

while racing, the f@#ker gave me problems starting. 5-15 sec. delay - everytime. i know i have to raise the idle to stop the stalling, but what the f*&k, a brand new 06' quad with these issues. a honda to boot??????????????????

[Dave400ex]

Jonas, is your buddies a E-start?

Tolson is your's all stock?

[tolson]

bone stock!

[trick250r]

ive never had problems. even if i ride it hard for a while and stall it, it starts right back up. but these guys are right, DONT TOUCH THE THROTTLE. just pump it 2-3 times before you push the button.

[440xcex]

tolson ur race sounded EXACTLY like mine! I'm about ready to get my 400ex back out! I'ts not as fast but NOT A $6800 PIECE OF CHIT EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave400ex]

Getting the HRC kit or getting it opened up is making a big difference. It seems like a lot of the problems are in the carb. Call and talk with Colby at C&D, he'll tell you what you need to get it running right.

I haven't had any problems, but haven't raced XC with it yet either. I should have my full pipe and everything for the carb next week though...

[440xcex]

Dave your right Colby has helped me ALOT! SUPPORT C&D!!!!!!!!!

[schulte_85]

I opened up my airbox with Uni Filter. HMF Slip-on. 175 main, not sure what pilot, I turned the AP screw 1/4 a turn. Starts up great when it is not hot. But once it get hot it take about 7-8 cranks. This is not good at all for dead starts. Turning up the idle helps out a lot. Just don't stall it and hold it pin. I guess you'll just have to catch up to the leaders if it don't start on the line. Quad is awesome though. Another thing do not hit the throttle at all until you absolute know it started. HMF has some helpful hints too.

[tolson]

i just talked to my dealer. i'm putting in the hrc kit and he said there is a decompression valve that he could adjust. (weird no one else has mentioned this) he said this is a known problem on the 450 crf? (2-wheeler) and they adjusted them before they left the floor. i guess the same motor is in that bike? your think he is blowing smoke up my a#*?

uped my idle. seems to make alittle difference. thou once warmed up idle gets higher?

i do love my bike, but i need to get off the line. the d*@m kickstart boyz are beating me. that is way i got a er (besides i'm lazy and suck at kick starting)

[jimh]

I don't post often.

Here is what happened to me:
My friend checked my valves ( 06 450 er ).

My valves were a VERY little off...not enough to adjust.

Now my decompresson valve:

I believe they should be: .015

Mine was: .048

This cured my problem. I can start hot, in gear fairly quickly.

I can start hot, in nuetral, immediately.

Those numbers may not be exact...but i remember 15 and 48 for sure.

The decompression valve was adjusted with a slotted screw driver.

I hope this helps,
Jim H

[4ABURN]

rode my 06 for the first time in the woods got it really hot, even stalled it. It always starts right up.!!!!!! So the only help I can do is tell you what I have done. 45 pilot,never touched air screw,put in 160 main with lid still on but drilled 1and half inch hole beside stock hole then about 12 3/8s holes down the sides of the lid (keeps water off the filter.) Turned up the idle (that helped) and make sure there is no drag on your clutch.(I always start in neutral) I am going to put CRF needle in soon, richen up middle. thats the best I can do.Sorry to here all this trouble starting stuff, This is not normal for honda. :eek2: hope this helpes:D I don,t think this is a problem with all 06s.

[Dave400ex]

I am starting to hear a lot about the decompression valve. I've read it helps to run it a little loose compared to stock numbers? This was on HMF's site. Not sure how much though...

[Jonas]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
Jonas, is your buddies a E-start?

Tolson is your's all stock?

I've got two buddies w/e-starts (both w/HRC only) both have turned up the idle a little, mine is a kick.

[Tripyn]

Mine has been in the shop for over a month now and they can't figure it out. Shop manager said he has been on the phone with Honda a few times and the only thing they suggest is checking the starter clutch. I have had all the problems you guys have noted and this bike will not restart if you stall it hot.

I worked with HMF when I got my pipe, changed the leakjet, changed the needle, adjusted the AP timing, put a boyesen on the carb and pulled the lid. The two things that did help was changing the decomp gap to .24~.32 and turning up the idle. Rule of thumb on these bike is NEVER touch thr throttle.

However, after all these changes I still have to pull start it at least twice an outting and I finally got sick of it and took it in. The battery is about shot from being charged so many times and the pull starts are wearing on the transmission/clutch. I LOVE this bike but Honda really needs to address this problem wuith the ER's.

[compedge]

Im making a bigger battery box for my freinds tomorrow. just a little longer. And run a battery out of a honda 954.

[Dave400ex]

Jonas did you say your one buddies with the E-start started fine like yours? It's starting to seem like not all are as bad as others...

[compedge]

I think the bike just has a weak battery. Its also possible that If the atv's were left in cold storage before they got to the dealer The battery could freeze. After a battery freezes it dosnt seem to last as long.

[tolson]

the plot thickens. i brought mine to the dealer yesterday. i't wouldn't even start to pull it into the garage. hahahaha.

he said," well................huh............you know.........honda came out with a service bullentian on decompression valve. once you set the exhaust valve clearance, LEAVE the the tool in, AND THEN set the decompression clearnance. everyone, was taking the tool out and setting the decompression." "including the factory?", i then said. "it's not the first time something like this has happened.", he said.

now i could go into a whole thing - this is why i bought and honda, realiablity, quality....etc. but i did not.

who f&@king knows. i just want to ride.

[compedge]

ya that makes sence.

[400exrider0004]

mine starts up everytime. I turned up the idle, and i dont hit the gas when starting. Starts up fine for me.

[compedge]

Ya my freinds atv's start fine whith a jump.
We went on a trail ride yesterday , we got to a wet muddy, section with down smakk trees and lots of roots. in the middle of it my freind with an 06er got hung up on a root and stalled it. He hit the start button and his battery was to weak to start it. Another 06 had to pull in next to him and jump it. It was a strugle getting them out after stoping in the middle.

[440xcex]

So tolson,your saying the dealer will set it to the right clearances?THANKS

[quadguy83]

mines in the shop right now for the same problem. Will let u guys know what they tell me. Probably be some b.s. that its from the hrc kit. I had never thought about the battery freezing, great point. Other that that the thing is a rocketship

[tolson]

well let me update you all. that hrc kit is stupid fast. holey s&@t. my dealer upped the idle and that helped a little. the race this weekend it took 4 cranks to start. better than 50, but still not great. the kickers are beating me off the line. i'm going to live with it for now, but i am definately disappointed in honda.

[krazken]

On my 06 with full exhaust and HC Stg 2 I have had a lot of the issues that everyone in this thread has been referring to. I race XC, and the only thing I say to do is to do the dead engine start in neutral and then shift after it starts.

Whats faster? Cranking it while in gear and waiting for it to start, or starting it in neutral and shifting and going? For me it has been the latter. I haven't got the holeshot yet, but that's more my own issues with not wanting to be part of a big pile up prior to going in the woods.


One of the big issues seems to be Decomp mechanism clearance. Most are being set too low, causing low compression on startup, and not enough to start properly. Increasing the compression on starting has good and bad...the good is that it will start quicker, the bad is that it will be harder on the starter motor, which will cause the battery to go dead quicker. So there is definitely a happy medium to find on this.


Another thing to look at, check out the Goki electric starter for the 04/05. Not for the electric starter, but for the battery box and the placement of the battery. This is the route that I will be going. Trim the rear plastic where the owners manual and toolkit go and mounting the battery box immediately behind the airbox. This way a mucho larger battery should fit in there, and I don't know if it will start any faster, but it should sure turn over faster and last longer.

[BVRLVR]

always buy a kickstart!

[bluebaron]

How hard is the 06s to kick over, what do you do when you stall when its hot.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by tolson
the plot thickens. i brought mine to the dealer yesterday. i't wouldn't even start to pull it into the garage. hahahaha.

he said," well................huh............you know.........honda came out with a service bullentian on decompression valve. once you set the exhaust valve clearance, LEAVE the the tool in, AND THEN set the decompression clearnance. everyone, was taking the tool out and setting the decompression." "including the factory?", i then said. "it's not the first time something like this has happened.", he said.

now i could go into a whole thing - this is why i bought and honda, realiablity, quality....etc. but i did not.

who f&@king knows. i just want to ride.

Found this post very confusing. Leave what tool in and then set the decompression clearance? You have to take the whole upper assembly off and put the appropriate shims in for the intake and exhaust clearances. Once you do this, you torque down the upper assembly and then recheck the clearances. Are they saying to leave the feeler gauge in there while adjusting the decompression clearance?

I tightened mine up after installing the HRC. It was out-of-spec with the stock cam too. I checked the clearances on everything before installing the HRC cam.

By the way, I have no trouble starting.

/Jon