Their predicting fuel shortages this year.

[DieselBoy]

so i saw on the news the summer fuel prices will not only spike sky high, but there may be some shortages due to the increase fuel consumption in the summer months. much like last summer, only worse. since there are still fuel refineries offline, its killing us, and if we have another bad hurricane season around the corner were gonna be in deep crap.

greeeeaaaatttttt.....

we need an alternate fuel source, anyone making their own diesel fuel these days? I've thought about it but I'm not sure what's involved.

[bansheeguy77]

blame the democrats...we should be drilling in alaska by now....it annoys me that it cost so much...but its not going to kill me....however some people/familys i know its really putting a killing on them having to drive seperate vehicles 40 miles back n forth to work a day.....the govt needs to step in and make a standard fuel cost...just like they do with milk n such...

[Thump_It]

Oil companies just say that crap so they can charge more and make more money. Theres a reason why the oil companies have recently recorded the highest annual income in their history.

[honduh440]

yeah someone was saying 3.50ish by july 4th. i drive 2000 miles a month it sucks having to pay 250 a month for my truck payment and even more for gas.

[DieselBoy]

as far as i'm concerned the goverment needs to put a FREEZE on fuel costs like they did hydro cost when it was skyrocketting.

[400exrules]

ill still be buyin it.....gas prices wont stop me from riding or racing

[zeppelin]

ethanol is the future, ive been tring to tell people this for 2 years now and they are just starting to listen to me. one reson it may never catch on though (at least in the country) is that you actualy can make it your self. all you have to do is grow some corn and make a still :ermm:

[mxdave28]

i cant wait for everybody to convert over to the Ult. fuels when it gets here....that just means more gas for me by that time ya'll will run right out and buy all new vehicles and i will still be using my gas hog that spues stinky exhaust....untill the Gov't buys me a new vehicle i just got 2 words for ya's F U :D

[DieselBoy]

Originally posted by 400exrules
ill still be buyin it.....gas prices wont stop me from riding or racing

i'm referring to the everyday driver.

[Sjorge450R]

the other day in SS class we learned that like 40% of gas cost comes from the oil cost its self. About 30% is taxes. 15% is refinery cost. And the other 15% is money that goes to the employees at stations.

I was thinking if we would lower the tax on gas we wouldn't have these outrages prices.

Then again, a boycott for a day or two may also work.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Sjorge300EX
the other day in SS class we learned that like 40% of gas cost comes from the oil cost its self. About 30% is taxes. 15% is refinery cost. And the other 15% is money that goes to the employees at stations.

I was thinking if we would lower the tax on gas we wouldn't have these outrages prices.

Then again, a boycott for a day or two may also work.


The gas station does not make 15% on fuel... its much less.

You most likely will not see a cut on taxes... there is too much income for the gov't.

Boycotts will NOT work.... everyone will buy gas before a boycott then fill up right afterwards. Either way your fuel usage will remain the same...unless everyone stopped driving - that will NEVER happen. This idea gets passed around the internet so much and all I can do is laugh at people that actually think it might work.

[1fst400]

anyone know what c 12 is going to cost me this year? Im running it now at 10$ a gallon.


I spend an average of 50$ a week on gas, Not bad. But kinda seenis how I dont drive anywhere far.

[fast_enough]

Originally posted by MOFO
The gas station does not make 15% on fuel... its much less.

You most likely will not see a cut on taxes... there is too much income for the gov't.

Boycotts will NOT work.... everyone will buy gas before a boycott then fill up right afterwards. Either way your fuel usage will remain the same...unless everyone stopped driving - that will NEVER happen. This idea gets passed around the internet so much and all I can do is laugh at people that actually think it might work.

He didnt say they made 15%. He said they paid a work bill with it, which would mean the stations are breaking even or at loss. Which is not true, so yes he was wrong

[hondardr4life]

I guess I better get out and buy my 55 gallon drum of race fuel soon, before prices go through the roof.

[Glamis400ex]

The damn oil companies swear up and down that they are keeping prices as low as possible but at the same time reporting record earnings.

That is a contradiction in terms....can't have it both ways.

[stc416rider]

see i dont know y they dont make steam cars like steam boats
it could work

[400exrules]

my history teacher said china is buying up all the oil and thats why prices are so high

[Honda400exrox]

Originally posted by 400exrules
my history teacher said china is buying up all the oil and thats why prices are so high


Your teacher should stop drinking paint:)

[Glamis400ex]

Well, that was the case there for a while with steel prices...but not oil.

[STEVENJANNA]

The problem is not an oil shortage in this country (there is enough oil in the naval reserves for another 100years at least). The biggest probem we have is a lack of refineries. There hasn't been a new refinery built on American soil in 15 years or so (i think). Building more refineries isn't going to work either because after all the red tape it takes upwards of 8 years to get a refinery built.

We can complain about the price of gas all we want but as long as we continue to pay the price is going to go up. Example: two summers it was painful to pay $1.50 a gal. for reg. now we pay appx. $2.50 a gal. and it almost seems normal. They'll never lower gas prices if we're going to pay.

Take a look at what history teaches us. The whale oil companies of the 1800's were the equivilant of the oil companies of today. Whale oil was used in just about everything and was the main fuel of the day. Whale oil companies lined the pockets of politicians and everything was smooth sailing right.... until they got greedy and the public wasn't going to take it anymore. Whale oil was selling for about 05 cents a gal. and kerosene was a new technology and was selling for about 10 cents a gal.. Long story short whale oil companies thought they were untouchable raised there price to 20 cents a gal.......well when was the last time you used whale oil.

My point is if the oil companies don't calm down eventually the new technologies in fuel are going to start becoming more cost effective and then we'll have a shortage of farms and farmers (because by the time we realize that ethanol is the future we won't have enough of them left).

[troutman561]

They say it will be $3.50 a gallon but last year they said it would be $4. But anyways I just hope it does not get that high because buying gas before the hurricanes down here it getting quite expensive, it sucks.... I just paid $2.75 for regular, so it may go upto $3.50 but I hope not..

[derekhonda]

if gas goes up another dollar im riding my bike. might be kind of hard to pull a hay wagon with a 21 speed though.....

[mrusk]

If the goverment capped the gas prices it be the biggest mistake ever. That would cause gas shortages like in the 70s.

The reason the companies are showing record earnings is because they are selling more gas than ever! Thats why. So you think just because they sell alot of there product, they should lower prices??????

Yea exxon mobbile might of made 10 billion during a couple of quaters last year, but that was less than 10% net. They defienetly are not gouging!

Originally posted by hondardr4life
I guess I better get out and buy my 55 gallon drum of race fuel soon, before prices go through the roof.


How long is a 55 gallon drum of race gas good for before it deteriorates? Pump gas starts going downhill within 2 weeks.

[DieselBoy]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
How long is a 55 gallon drum of race gas good for before it deteriorates? Pump gas starts going downhill within 2 weeks.

really? wow, that sucks!

[DieselBoy]

i would like to make my own bio diesel fuel but I've heard there is a couple deadly *** chemicals that you need to make it work, and you need all that equipment, I'm sure it would be well worth it long term cause diesel isn't showing any signs of relief.

just imagine how many new vehicles are on the road EVERY DAY, how many new TRUCKS, BUSES, TRACTORS, PLANES, AMBULANCES, ETC ETC. are coming on the roads. people are driving more than they ever have before, more used vehicles have more mileage than they have ever had. people are travelling more. What makes me wonder is what happens when some of us can no longer afford fuel, and only the rich can afford it? Selling a truck, or SUV is a nightmare right now, with the their fuel consumption rates mostly to blame. Everyone keeps saying oh well but eventually oh well, who cares, its life isn't going to cut it and we are going to seriously be bent over. we need an alternate fuel source NOW. GM was working on some sort of H20 vehicle that actually works I don't know what the heck their waiting for, we need it NOW.

They are pushing for those battery cars I seriously don't see that being worth a crap. They aren't efficient enough yet and they are probably heavy as hell not to mention a fortune to repair.

[Eddiesanders250]

I dont think the battery cars that they are trying to make are will work for most people. now will that tiny battery powered car pull my 20ft trailer full of bikes, or my 21ft boat? I highly doubt it.

[DieselBoy]

that's exactly what I'm thinking. they can't produce enough power, and even if they did, they would flatten the battery in no-time. you will be on a long highway trip in the middle of no where and the light will come on BATTERY LOW!!!! THEN WHAT????

[Pappy]

battery powered cars will not happen, hybrids yes, but not full on battery powered.


over the next 10 years we will see new forms of fuel and the engines that use them. the technolgy is there, but the production is not, nor is the demand at the dealerships for such a vehicle.

i hate to even think about fuel costs, much less open my wallet twice a week to pay for it:ermm:


and china and india are driving factors in the oil market along with steel and other materials rising costs. an old battery was worth about $3 last year, now its almost $10 thanks to the cost of lead on the open market. tire and rim prices will be increasing, infact some already have. a new battery will cost you $8 or more then it did just a few months ago. all types of things will cost more, not just fuel.

[DieselBoy]

Originally posted by Pappy
battery powered cars will not happen, hybrids yes, but not full on battery powered.


over the next 10 years we will see new forms of fuel and the engines that use them. the technolgy is there, but the production is not, nor is the demand at the dealerships for such a vehicle.

i hate to even think about fuel costs, much less open my wallet twice a week to pay for it:ermm:


and china and india are driving factors in the oil market along with steel and other materials rising costs. an old battery was worth about $3 last year, now its almost $10 thanks to the cost of lead on the open market. tire and rim prices will be increasing, infact some already have. a new battery will cost you $8 or more then it did just a few months ago. all types of things will cost more, not just fuel.


That's right. China is driving the oil prices up. And when you wonder why the price of every product sold has risen, think of whats behind that. When a store sells an array of merchandise, they must ship it. The shipment company must transport the goods to the store. In order for the transportation company to succeed, and fuel their trucks to keep afloat in the fuel crisis, they must pass the higher cost of fuel on to the store, and then, the store must pass the cost on to the consumer. It's a vicisious cycle.

With new forms of fuel in the future, I'm doubtful that it will be any cheaper than gasoline is today. That's just my thought, though.

[MOFO]

The only real solution is Hydrogen powered cars. They are already working on this.

Someday using this technology, all you'll have to do is fill your tank up with water and your by-products will be power and O2... thats when they can find a good way of separating the H20. Until then, it will just be hydrogen gas.

[BLACKeR]

if you want cheap gas then everyone start writting their representatives, and tell them to drill alaska, drill the gulf, and get rid of all the red tape on refineries. they estamate that the oil field in the gulf could be the size of saudia arabia's. we are sitting on what could very vell be the largest crude deposit in the world and we cant touch it because of politicians fear of the eco nuts. their is no real shortage of oil, not like the 70's there is only a percieved shortage which artificially drives up prices. you want cheap gas? get government out. name one government organization that runs effeciantly? post office? DMV? public schools? yeah didnt think so, so why would they be any good controlling oil drilling, shipping or refining?

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by MOFO
The only real solution is Hydrogen powered cars. They are already working on this.

Someday using this technology, all you'll have to do is fill your tank up with water and your by-products will be power and O2... thats when they can find a good way of separating the H20. Until then, it will just be hydrogen gas.

You're right ..... this is going to be the next generation of vehicles .... BUT you know the governments will find some way to make money off of it . Surely they're not going to let billions of dollars from tax on fuel slip away ... they'll just charge people tax on the water . :grr:

I just feel bad for those in my area that have trucks , especially when the price of fuel will be near $8 a gallon .:huh

[400exchick]

Prices are insane yes. Some people have started carpooling in my area, but not much. More people should, myself included. I can't predict the future but from what I can see it's not looking too great.

Nice thread to start my day with :rolleyes: :ermm:

[flyin#5]

the oil companies are raising prices because they can... we are greedy and like our big, gas guzzling v8 trucks and SUV's. next year im going to mmi in arizona.. i went down there a month ago and was amazed at all the big trucks with lifts/rims, hummers, and other SUV's... i bet about 5% of those or less need the power of those thing, or even go offroad. up here i can understand a truck... sometimes it can mean life or death driving to work after a snowstorm. were greedy americans, we like to have the biggest and best... if we are going to spend 40,000 dollars on a vehicle we must have the money to spend on gas right? of course thats not really the case, but maybe the gas companies are trying to teach us a lesson? last time gas prices got near, or over 3.00$ a gallon people around here started selling there trucks, or getting a beater car to drive around.. and they went less places, im sure this went on in a lot of areas... and guess what happened?... prices dropped from there. there really isnt a reason why gas prices are going up... the barrel cost has actually went down quite a bit.. then went up, but still much less than it was this summer. there is my insight... who knows if its right, but it makes sense to me 'shrugs'

[dober250R]

I dont like hydrogen, that stuff scares me. Anyone remember the Hyndenburg? And the gas companies had billions in profit alone last year, and the government supposidly did an investigation, but came up with nothing. That's a coincidence, especially when bush is an oil man himself. This oil situation is making me really mad, cause nobody can really do anything about it. We just have to bend over and take it up the tail pipe.:grr: :mad:

[Mxjunkie]

Great, its the 1970's all over again :ermm:

[kd5sfq]

Originally posted by dober250R
I dont like hydrogen, that stuff scares me. Anyone remember the Hyndenburg? And the gas companies had billions in profit alone last year, and the government supposidly did an investigation, but came up with nothing. That's a coincidence, especially when bush is an oil man himself. This oil situation is making me really mad, cause nobody can really do anything about it. We just have to bend over and take it up the tail pipe.:grr: :mad:

The explosion of the luxury airship Hindenburg in 1937 has been widely misinterpreted as a hydrogen disaster. In fact the hydrogen used in the lifting bags of the Hindenburg was not the source of ignition nor responsible for the spectacular flames that created the horrendous scene. The highly flammable coating on the skin of the airship has been documented to be the source of the fire. Undoubtedly this fire ignited some of the hydrogen, but hydrogen flames are essentially invisible, and the source of the visible flames was most probably the diesel fuel and skin.

Since hydrogen is lighter that air, when it ignited, the blast was directed upwards away from the people... That is why there were survivors.

Gasoline is far more dangerous that hydrogen will ever be because the fumes are heaver that air. Actually Gasoline is a hydrocarbon. Hydrogen + carbon. So in fact it is the hydrogen component that is the actual fuel that burns...

Using pure hydrogen is far more efficient because it eliminates all pollutants. Burning is a term that describes a process called rapid oxidization. When hydrogen is ignited in an oxygen rich environment, the only by product is water vapor.

Like it or not, there is only so much oil that exists and each passing year it will be harder and more costly to pump out of the ground. At the current rate of consumption, there will be no natural oil left on this planet in 25-30 years.

Hydrogen makes a perfect fuel because it is clean and abundant. 99% of the universe is made up of hydrogen atoms.

Fuel cells use hydrogen and oxygen to create electricity. The reaction produces two byproducts. Pure water and heat. Every major auto manufacturer in the world has a hydrogen fuel cell program and plans to put cars based on that technology into production within the next 10 years. A few have plans for doing it in the next 5 years.

In 1996 congress pass a bill called “The Hydrogen Future Act.” It states that the United States will be switch to a hydrogen base economy by the year 2050. Some countries like Iceland have already started to switch to a hydrogen economy.

High fuel prices are going to be a fact of life until we switch to hydrogen. There are still major road blocks for hydrogen. Like why would large oil companies want to convert to producing hydrogen when they can make huge profits selling outdated fossil fuels? A few oil companies like Shell have started pilot programs and even have a few fueling stations on highways on the east and west coasts.

Originally posted by 1fst400
anyone know what c 12 is going to cost me this year? Im running it now at 10$ a gallon.


C-12 is about $7.38/gallon around here right now.

[jcv400ex]

Originally posted by zeppelin
ethanol is the future, ive been tring to tell people this for 2 years now and they are just starting to listen to me. one reson it may never catch on though (at least in the country) is that you actualy can make it your self. all you have to do is grow some corn and make a still :ermm:

The E85 would be nice, but it's also expensive. Dang there just as much as a gallon of gas, and your vehicle uses twice as much. So now your 14 mpg truck would only get 7-9mpg on the E85......so make it cheaper, and people would buy it.

[440exnacsracer]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
The E85 would be nice, but it's also expensive. Dang there just as much as a gallon of gas, and your vehicle uses twice as much. So now your 14 mpg truck would only get 7-9mpg on the E85......so make it cheaper, and people would buy it.

it is somewhat expensive right now, but logically, if vehicles run off of it, there will be alot of people making it, and because it is extremely cheap to make, prices will go down. Ford plans to have 50% of their vehicles in the 2009 lineup of production to be capable to run off of either gas or e85, so it looks like there is a future in it after all

[punker69q]

Originally posted by MOFO
The only real solution is Hydrogen powered cars. They are already working on this.

Someday using this technology, all you'll have to do is fill your tank up with water and your by-products will be power and O2... thats when they can find a good way of separating the H20. Until then, it will just be hydrogen gas.


That's the problem with hydrogen, producing it from water takes more energy than it will create by combustion and this is something they(the companies) can't change... When you think about it, you start with a stable, low energy molecule (H2O), tranfsform it into a high energy unstable one (H+ and O2-) and burn it to come back with water, so you can't "gain" energy from the combustion. (energy is never gained, but the combustion of gas will release some without major transformation from the crude product) If they could produce it by solar or wind energy, it wouldn't be that bad, but the effiency of those process are so low, that we would need to cover the whole canada and u.s. to get enough energy. Ethanol is not much better, as some research have proven (some have shown the opposite too...) that it takes more energy to make the crops grow, transform the corn into ethanol etc etc than the combustion of the ethanol will produce.

When evaluating alternative fuels, the global energy used to produce it when compared to the energy it will produce is an important factor.

[jason43050]

Originally posted by Sjorge300EX
the other day in SS class we learned that like 40% of gas cost comes from the oil cost its self. About 30% is taxes. 15% is refinery cost. And the other 15% is money that goes to the employees at stations.

I was thinking if we would lower the tax on gas we wouldn't have these outrages prices.

Then again, a boycott for a day or two may also work. gas stations make like 2%, they make more on food and groceries then anything.....

[bwamos]

Originally posted by kd5sfq
The explosion of the luxury airship Hindenburg in 1937 has been widely misinterpreted as a hydrogen disaster....

I'm glad that some people dont take what the teachers in school tell you as 100% fact, and actually do their own research on the facts. ;)

I wonder how E85 would work in a properly converted ATV. If ATV's ran off of E85 the opposition would have less to whine about. It's also naturally higher octane to boot, so you could use a higher compression piston with it. ;)

I also hear you on the fuel prices.. I'm spending over $300 a month on gasoline alone at the current $2.36/gal price here.

[STEVENJANNA]

Does anyone remember the IHRA Top Alcohol funny car driver that ran only ethanol a few years back? He had a big corn stalk painted on the side of his car. He ran pretty good.

[kd5sfq]

Originally posted by punker69q
That's the problem with hydrogen, producing it from water takes more energy than it will create by combustion and this is something they(the companies) can't change... When you think about it, you start with a stable, low energy molecule (H2O), tranfsform it into a high energy unstable one (H+ and O2-) and burn it to come back with water, so you can't "gain" energy from the combustion. (energy is never gained, but the combustion of gas will release some without major transformation from the crude product) If they could produce it by solar or wind energy, it wouldn't be that bad, but the effiency of those process are so low, that we would need to cover the whole canada and u.s. to get enough energy. Ethanol is not much better, as some research have proven (some have shown the opposite too...) that it takes more energy to make the crops grow, transform the corn into ethanol etc etc than the combustion of the ethanol will produce.

When evaluating alternative fuels, the global energy used to produce it when compared to the energy it will produce is an important factor.

The Department of Energy is actually working on reducing the cost of hydrogen production. It is true that cracking hydrogen from water isn't the most cost effective solution at the moment even though lower cost solar cells do offer promise as the technology develops. Energy from the sun converting water into hydrogen or wind may be a long term best choice. Nuclear reactors could also generate tons of hydrogen from water at a low cost.

All hydrogen production processes are based on the separation of hydrogen from hydrogen-containing feedstocks. The feedstock dictates the selection of the separation method. Today, we use two primary methods to separate hydrogen: thermal and chemical. A third method, biological, is in the exploratory research and development phase.

Today, 95% of the hydrogen produced in the U.S., roughly 9 million tons per year, uses a thermal process with natural gas as the feedstock. This process, called steam methane reformation.

Other renewable technologies, such as wind turbines, can generate electricity to produce hydrogen from electrolysis with zero greenhouse gas emissions. In France, an abundance of nuclear power makes electrolysis a logical, and their most common, method for producing hydrogen.

[kd5sfq]

You might have guessed that I am a proponent of hydrogen energy and that I have been following the progress of hydrogen technology for years. I think a hydrogen future is closer than most people think.

Some intersting reading for those who like to know what is going on.

DOE Released a Roadmap on Manufacturing R&D for the Hydrogen Economy

http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/national_h2_roadmap.pdf


Hydrogen Posture Plan

http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/hydrogen_posture_plan.pdf

For even more information
http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by Honda400exrox
Your teacher should stop drinking paint:)

LMAO

[MR.BIG]

These gas prices are a bunch B.S! They were high last year and then you hear how the gas company's are trying to keep the prices as low as possible. Then you hear how exxon\mobil had the biggest profit in history so what's that tell you. I will have to ride my motorcycle to work because that gets about 45 mpg but the whole thing is just ridiculous. Everything keeps going up but you don't see everyones pay scale going up to compensate.

[stc416rider]

wat about steam powered cars if they can do it with boats y not cars

[STEVENJANNA]

Originally posted by stc416rider
wat about steam powered cars if they can do it with boats y not cars
Steam power is extremely dangerous due to the high psi created in the boiler. This is one reason why steam cars fell out of favor in the late 20's.

[stc416rider]

but im sure scientists could find a way that still would be cheap

[400exrules]

sorry but personally i think we will continue to use gas for quite a while, it will be too much trouble, and change, for everyone to ditch all their gas burnin vehicles, boats, lawnmowers, etc... to get somethin efficient.
i dont see how anything else will be able to perform like gas does

[DieselBoy]

steam is DAMN HOT....

Also, doesn't hydrogen burn invisible?

[hondardr4life]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
How long is a 55 gallon drum of race gas good for before it deteriorates? Pump gas starts going downhill within 2 weeks.

Well, if you keep it in a controlled enviornment, you can make 35 gallons last a season. I am splitting my 55 gallon in half with a friend, so I will have 27 1/2 gallons to last a season.

[BLACKeR]

gasoline is a wonderful fuel, with no real problems. if companies were able to pursue the exploration drilling and refining of petrollium in an unregulated way there would be no problems with supply or price. if we convert to hydrogen, in 50 years we will just be having the same arguement we are having now because government will have found a way to tax and regulate that process. we need to stop seeing government as the answer, and jumping at every paniced cry we hear. the sky is not falling.