Breaking frames and Tranny updates

[jason14x]

Guys anyone else here anything about an issue with the frames breaking /cracking near the shock linkage? I know on another site this has come up and rumor was that JJ's problem at Glen Helen was actually related to this and not a broken shock? I just want to know more about this if its a legitimate wide spread problem and is Suzuki gonna fix it?

Second wanted to hear how everyone was doing with there tranny noises ? Has Anyone found a full fledged problem or still just the noise ?

Thanks guys !!

jason

[jstunkel]

I haven't heard anything on the transmission problems but I've had my LTR for about a month now without any problems at all, its been ridin alot and been on a track 4 times. On suzuki's website it said that Jones got hit pretty hard from behind by somebody else in moto 1 and that bent his swingarm. They didnt know it did anything until moto 2 when the linkage finally broke from all the pressure on it and they had it in a chassis jig after the race. As far as I know there hasnt been any problems with the actual frames breaking or cracking.

Cernics racing confirmed people are breaking them around the linkage tabs on the frame and that for heavy MX it needs to be reinforced. And I saw a picture of J's bike at GH and it broke the tabs on the frame, may have taken the shock with it. He's not the only one with frame problems.

[KWAD GAWD]

Nobody was taking pics of JJ's bike besided myself and maybe two others... Ryan quickly took the bike back to the shop and was pissed people were taking pics in the first place.
JJ's coil spring fell off, so the shock shaft had to break.
I highly doubt anyone was allowed to take pics of the breakage being that it was the "debut" of the new bike.

[motox450r]

somebody struck a nerve. and the soap goes on. you guys are taking this crap to serious. it aint worth having a heart attack over. getting mad over pictures?

Yes, frames are breaking. Actually the shock probably broke AFTER the frame tabs broke as you can see them still attached to the linkage bolt.

another, no heart attack either LOL

[motox450r]

can't these japaneze mother sucks weld their tabs any better than that. wtf's going on over there. lol

I guess they have the Monday "hangover blues" just like us yankees. I wondered what the heck they were thinkin when they forgot to install my throttlebody clamps, maybe that worker left the assembly line and took a sh*t break.

[motox450r]

oh well we'll have to put em in for a raise. extra rice for supper. that'll pep em up.

[motox450r]

NICE PICS ACE

As for the gearbox whine. The dealer said that the "Suzuki service rep" said that noise is completely NORMAL, and to run a semi-synthetic oil. I have never heard a normal sound like that before, but i'll give them the benefit of the doubt, run it and see what happens. What else can you do?

[AceLtz]

i ran semi synthetic oil since i got it and i havent heard one sound. Im pretty sure that hes right, though i dont know why :confused:

Originally posted by AceLtz
i ran semi synthetic oil since i got it and i havent heard one sound. Im pretty sure that hes right, though i dont know why :confused:

Are you running 10/40 or 20/50 semi-syn? They must have the gears meshed tight on these LTR's.

[AceLtz]

10/40

[jason14x]

what type oil exaclty? I like to use a lot of info when making my decisions! As far as tranny whine ...I have heard it on othertypes of machine...tight tolernaces can cause some whining, hopefully thats all it really is I have only heard of one complete failure so far so we will see !

Thanks guys keep the info coming!!

[AceLtz]

I use golden spectro 4, semi synthetic, 10/40. Ive used it since i bought the ltr and i havent had one problem. I think the noises that people are getting are beause of the oil. Just as a reccomendation, try 10/40 and see what happens. Its worth a shot

[bwamos]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
Yes, frames are breaking. Actually the shock probably broke AFTER the frame tabs broke as you can see them still attached to the linkage bolt.

Looking at that picture.. it appears that the linkage itself broke. Not the frame/tabs.

It looks like the rear piece of the linkage busted at the joint between the two.

Also looking at it.. it really doesn't lok like the stock linkage either. It's not curved like the stocker.

It's hard to tell though in those photos.. it could be the rear part, that could have broken away from the swinger, and is hanging off of the main linkage piece.. but I can't really tell since the depth perception is way off due to the zoom lense.

Also isn't JJ using Fox front and rear with a custom linkage?

It broke the tabs off the frame, same place it did on a few other racers. Afterwards it may have broken the shock hole on the linkage and the shock itself. Jones was running a stock linkage at GH I believe and Gust was running a Walsh. It has already been confirmed by the race teams, THEY ARE BREAKING AT THE LINKAGE TABS. Just because we own LTR's doesn't mean we have to be blind to its faults. The reason for pointing the break out is to give the heads up to guys racing MX so the can reinforce now, instead of buying a new frame later.

[400exBro]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
It broke the tabs off the frame, same place it did on a few other racers. Afterwards it may have broken the shock hole on the linkage and the shock itself. Jones was running a stock linkage at GH I believe and Gust was running a Walsh. It has already been confirmed by the race teams, THEY ARE BREAKING AT THE LINKAGE TABS. Just because we own LTR's doesn't mean we have to be blind to its faults. The reason for pointing the break out is to give the heads up to guys racing MX so the can reinforce now, instead of buying a new frame later.

You don't think Suzuki is going to do anything about the tabs breaking off?
This is a big issue, since most of the people who buys these use them for mx, they don't want spectators watching and seeing that the new all mighty lt450r is a POS.

BTW - i really like our lt450r, handles awsome and engine is strong.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
It broke the tabs off the frame, same place it did on a few other racers. Afterwards it may have broken the shock hole on the linkage and the shock itself. Jones was running a stock linkage at GH I believe and Gust was running a Walsh. It has already been confirmed by the race teams, THEY ARE BREAKING AT THE LINKAGE TABS. Just because we own LTR's doesn't mean we have to be blind to its faults. The reason for pointing the break out is to give the heads up to guys racing MX so the can reinforce now, instead of buying a new frame later.

Copy. The photos just appear to show the linkage hanging but still attached to the frame. It's hard to tell for sure, being that the depth perception is way off due to the zoom lens.

I obviously wasn't there in person.. so what I see is only an observation from the photo.

I agree on not hiding weaknesses.. as people need to know where to gusset, etc..

[jason14x]

Has anyone contacted Suzuki direct yet? I can see how it might break there is a lot of stress on this area . I plan on ringing my dealer today and having him look into it. If it is a design flaw(which it appears to be) Suzuki should at the very least offer the gusset kit to current owners and reimburse the welding costs. As far as the paint goes gve me a new can of 2006 Frame blue and call it even!

Jason

Thanks again guys way to look out for each other!

[OKTRX450R]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
It broke the tabs off the frame, same place it did on a few other racers. Afterwards it may have broken the shock hole on the linkage and the shock itself. Jones was running a stock linkage at GH I believe and Gust was running a Walsh. It has already been confirmed by the race teams, THEY ARE BREAKING AT THE LINKAGE TABS. Just because we own LTR's doesn't mean we have to be blind to its faults. The reason for pointing the break out is to give the heads up to guys racing MX so the can reinforce now, instead of buying a new frame later.

Ace can you point me in the direction where the race teams confirmed this and where the race teams are listing the items on each bike?

I would like to read this for myself because I have been told contradictory information...thanks.

Originally posted by OKTRX450R
Ace can you point me in the direction where the race teams confirmed this and where the race teams are listing the items on each bike?

I would like to read this for myself because I have been told contradictory information...thanks.


I have heard (but can't confirm) Dunk broke 2 frames while practicing?


Direct quote from Cernics racing(Sponsors Dunkelberger and Lawson).


"It is true that some frames are breaking.

It really is a simple fix, there just needs to be some reinforcing on the bottom linkage bracket on the frame.

I am sure we will see more official information to come."

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
Cernics racing confirmed people are breaking them around the linkage tabs on the frame and that for heavy MX it needs to be reinforced. And I saw a picture of J's bike at GH and it broke the tabs on the frame, may have taken the shock with it. He's not the only one with frame problems.

lmao, deffinately saving this pic

Another post from Cernics Racing today...




"The story is, no frames have been snapping.

There have been a limited number of these breaking. But it seems to be a simple fix.


Attached is a quickie drawing of the lower tab where the suspension linkage connects to the frame. The rearward force of the link on landings seems to be pulling the tabs off the frame.

I was at Walsh Race Craft last week talking to Mike about the situation, he simply said the washers need to be welded completly around, and it should basically solve the problem.

Mike also mentioned that from the factory testing they have done, the frame will not need any gusseting, and with properly setup suspension, the frame should last many a race to come.

None of this is offical from Suzuki, or any other company for that matter. Just the good word from one racer to another."

[400exBro]

why would welding the washer stop the tabs from riping off the frame??

The forces are still transfered from the bolt to the frame, the washer is there for tightening the bolt.

I cannot see this as being a fix. The renforcement would need to be at the welds were the tab is attached to the frame.

Originally posted by 400exBro
why would welding the washer stop the tabs from riping off the frame??

The forces are still transfered from the bolt to the frame, the washer is there for tightening the bolt.

I cannot see this as being a fix. The renforcement would need to be at the welds were the tab is attached to the frame.

That drawing was posted by Cernics. I totally agree, it will do NOTHING to fix the problem. Reinforcing the whole tab with a piece of cut strap is all I can think of that will help. I will admit that is a high stress area and it needs to be addressed, you don't want that snapping off when landing from a 90 ft. triple LOL. That would be real ugly!

[KWAD GAWD]

For the remark about the linkage on the factory bikes, I saw it. It has a Walsh "W" logo stamped on it. It's not stock linkage.

[jfarrar30]

i dont think the tab is being riped off the frame i think the bolt is pulling through the tabs.not sure but what it sounds like to me from the little info i have been gathering.

You might be right Jfarrar30 but if you look at the pictures on the first page it looks to me like part of the tabs are still attached to the linkage and the bolt. Whatever it is its not good.

[OKTRX450R]

Hear me out here...if you change the rear linkage to the Walsh, for example, the leverage ratio (LR) changes on the shock...correct? If the LR changes on the shock would it not stand to reason it also changes the ratio on the bracket or tabs?

All the current information regarding breakage and the "fix" if you could call it that has came from Walsh themselves...is there a single reputable case, not I heard so and so broke theirs, of a factory linkage ripping the tabs off the frame?

It appears possibly the factory setup is fine and working exactly the way Suzuki engineered it...but changing the LR on the tabs by changing the linkage is causing the breakage.

[jason14x]

Guys I will let you know. I contacted my dealer who also is one of my employees for NEATV-Mx . He is going to contact Suzuki through the region reps and through the coroporate end and get to the bottom of this. ( yes I trust him besides he knows I will drive them frigging crazy unless i get a solid answer)

Now to answer a couple of questions . I propped my bike up and really went over it yesterday and looked at the area in question I can see how welding would help this area..its not really a washer Walsh was talking about its the mounting Flange ..by adding weld it would be attached all the way around which it is not right now . I dont think this is a complete fix but it should help.

As far as the leverage ratios that is 100% correct if you change the linkage you change the pressure and ratio on the mount so this could be directly related to changing linkages on some bikes personally I hope Suzuki will addthe welds welds and gussests but we will see ! This Bike was designed to be raced so they gott a back it up......like I said in an aearlier post if yours breaks go drive your dealer and Suzuki nuts until they fix it .

I will post whatever i hear as soon as I am told guys .

Jason NEATV-MX

[motox450r]

my question would be did suzuki think that everyone was just going to race this machine untouched. i hardly think so. sounds like just alittle bit of homework wasn't completed. which i understand is a problem with any manufacturer. but, some of these people that are making the big bucks need to leave no stone unturned. the bike's have been around and raced for alot of years now. they can't be perfect, but perfection should be a driving force when designing these bikes. or for that matter anything in life. but unfortunatly that takes hard work, which is not found as much these days. alittle fix here alittle fix there and twolah it's all better. the american work ethic could be alot better, whether you make 6.00 or 60.00 an hour. until then we all will pay the price. don't get mad get used to it!

[Speed_MDS2]

Originally posted by motox450r
my question would be did suzuki think that everyone was just going to race this machine untouched. i hardly think so. sounds like just alittle bit of homework wasn't completed. which i understand is a problem with any manufacturer. but, some of these people that are making the big bucks need to leave no stone unturned. the bike's have been around and raced for alot of years now. they can't be perfect, but perfection should be a driving force when designing these bikes. or for that matter anything in life. but unfortunatly that takes hard work, which is not found as much these days. alittle fix here alittle fix there and twolah it's all better. the american work ethic could be alot better, whether you make 6.00 or 60.00 an hour. until then we all will pay the price. don't get mad get used to it!

Americans didn't build or design this bike, its built in Japan. Just goes to show ya that there's lazy people everywhere. Oh, and I'm typing this at work LOL!:blah:

[400exBro]

we are taught in school (I am becoming an engineer) that everything you design or help build, you have to think that you childern are going to be using this product. So do you want your childern to die or become harmed from that product you designed or built??

the answer is no.

So i think that the engineers in Japan don't follow that saying, because someone can seriously hurt if this happens after a huge jump or even the a whoop section.

[motox450r]

that did slip my mind. but i would have to think some americans were involved with the design. if not my bad. but i still think we need to check our work ethics here. i experience this on a daly basis. the japaniacs need to check themselves as they are a country that used to pride their selves on exellence. i can't beleive that anyone would do something that could possibly hurt their son or daughter. but that should be a driving force to commit themselves to perfection. at least that way we would get great products, not perfect. that's definitly to much to ask.i'm self employed. my motto is if i shoot for perfection than i will have done a great job. it has worked great for me, i have made nothing but friends for life.

[badvox]

Originally posted by 400exBro
we are taught in school (I am becoming an engineer) that everything you design or help build, you have to think that you childern are going to be using this product. So do you want your childern to die or become harmed from that product you designed or built??

the answer is no.

So i think that the engineers in Japan don't follow that saying, because someone can seriously hurt if this happens after a huge jump or even the a whoop section.

I worked with some Canadian engineers. They all had this little ring that was made from the material of a bridge that collapsed there. You of course probably know that story right. These guys told me the story and man did it make sense.

Good luck with engineering school.

But hey back on topic... What about all the japanese companies assembling their stuff in China and Taiwan? Taiwan Im ok with but China? No, talk about unsafe...

[badvox]

Originally posted by motox450r the american work ethic could be alot better, whether you make 6.00 or 60.00 an hour. until then we all will pay the price. don't get mad get used to it! [/B]

What in the heII does this mean? The american work ethic? What does that have to do with it? And where do you get your info? The american work week or year is far greater now than anywhere else. We work more hours and have less vacation than any european country for sure.

And American engineering is still far superior to any other nation.

I shoulda just stayed outa this but I didn't so go ahead an correct me.

[atvnewb]

Why are you all blaming Suzuki sounds to me like Walsh didn't do their homework and changed the leverage ratios outside the capabilities of the quad!!

That is like holding Ford responsible for your Allison transmission blowing up after you put aftermarket crap on the motor to make 1000 foot lbs of torque.

Ford cant build to that standard and Suzuki shouldn't have to build to Walsh's standard.

that is just backwards, no one can design a quad that is every thing for everyone!!

They make the building block and YOU modify it if that means YOUR going to change something as important as the leverage ratios on YOUR quad YOU better make sure that it is beefed up where it needs to be so your now custom quad (it's no longer Suzuki's design) can handle the stress of what YOUR going to put it thru.

[AceLtz]

Very good point but was it only people with Walsh linkages breaking? or people with stock rear ends? ive seen some pics but im not sure if those are all stock parts.

[atvnewb]

from what I have been hearing it is the after market linkages

[LTZ400ApK]

I'm the one that took the pic of the yellow Ltr on the tractor,That was @ gatorback Nats. That Quad was 100% Stock it broke on the elevator jump

[atvnewb]

OK I now know of 1 stock quad that had the problem anyone else?

There is always a few lemons in any production run until it is every LTR that has this problem than it is just that a lemon.

When you are producing product on that large of a scale things happen, look at the guy that was missing his throttle body clamps. Mass production, chit happens, does it suck yes is it a major problem only time will tell.

[motox450r]

badvox ac can't even make a nerf bar that mounts worth a sh.it and they missed welds on mine. i don't even want to tell you what they told me. talk about pissed. they've been in bus for how long? do you want me to go further and elaborate more on work ethic. i don't care if ya 200 hrs week if ya don't give sh.it it don't mean squat. ya know just collecting a paycheck! i've talked with alot of companies trying to find people that take their job seriously is not all that common. i talked with some people at kenda the past week and i have found some people who care there. omg. not saying that all companies are crap but a big percentage are. i could go on and on with stories about companies, and how great they manufacture and how they do business. i have been lied to and told so many excuses i'm drowning, not up to my neck lol. where do you live in a igloo.just kidding lol.

Originally posted by motox450r
badvox where do you live in a igloo.

Actually he does sort of... Kalifornia LOL. Come on badvox, I see you smilin

[OKTRX450R]

Originally posted by LTZ400ApK
I'm the one that took the pic of the yellow Ltr on the tractor,That was @ gatorback Nats. That Quad was 100% Stock it broke on the elevator jump

You took the picture...did you talk to the owner? Know the owner? I thought someone posted a pic of the stock linkage and stated they did not look the same? Maybe I am getting pics confused...:confused:

[badvox]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
Actually he does sort of... Kalifornia LOL. Come on badvox, I see you smilin

LOL haha yeah I guess I do live in some sort of somethin.
Actually, I appreciate the point motox450r just made. However, the first comment was painted with a pretty broad brush.

Shoulda bought a cannondale ACE!! LOL

[motox450r]

i apologize for that one too. when a guy has a few bad experiences he tends to be a sourpuss. that be me. lol.
i'm a old skool old fart. i try so hard sometimes that i get stressed out. that's going alittle to far. but i do have a unblemished record on here and ebay with over 300 sales. here let me pat myself on the back. lol i'll let you guys get back to the subject at hand. i would really like to buy an ltr for my wife but i'm alittle suzuki shy right at this stage.

[LTZ400ApK]

I didnt get a Chance to talk to him i looked everywhere for him but couldnt find him,The Quad was 100% stock,I didnt get a close up pic but from what i seen of it look like its ripping out not braking,I'm goin to spot weld a Grade 8 washer on each side of the mount hopefully this will fix the problem

[berge75]

This is going to be a difficult fix for suzuki. A manufacture is never allowed to have dealerships do weld extra brackets to the frames,so the only thing they can do is send updated frames,OR After seeing the breaks,IN MY OPINION,the linkage mount may not be the problem as much as the linkage. If anyone ever would ever see how much twisting of the swingarm (especially mild steel ones)happens upon crocked landings, would understand that the link is twisting back and fourth against the mount and is weakening the tabs which is causing them to crack and rip out. Maybe a linkage that would allow for some torsional movement might cure the problem??? Just a thought.:rolleyes:

[CdaleXtreme]

the reason it is hard to get useful information from a site such as this is. If people even so much as heard of their brothers mothers sister cousin's LTR breaking their frame, This gives them the authority have a whole opinion as to why the frame broke and where it broke.

Fact: A LIMITED number of Suzukis have had the linkage mount pull through the frame tab regaurdless of aftermarket components.

Fact: Most racers racing the national circuit including myself and Jason Dunkelberger, among others have been sucessfully racing with a welded "reinforced" tab, without incident.

Fact: the entire tab is not pulling off the frame. The link bolt is simply pulling through the tab. I assume because they are not welded completely around.
The simple fix is included in my illustration posted in an earlier post.

None of what I say is official or privelidged information. Its just from asking around at the races. Necessity is the mother of invention, and this is what the racers have been doing.

I appologize for the typos and horrible english..I am really tired.

[readybeartoe]

If you think you can buy a new $7,299 "race ready" quad to race it and then get $12,000 Dollars worth of performance out of it in stock form, It's not gonna happen.

Suzuki has done their job for the 1st year of their New ltr450. They had to find a way to offer The New engine WITH Fuel Injection! and Wider Track and "OK" suspension without putting a $10,000 Dollar price tag on it. So what if you have to get a pipe,mapping, nerfbars, kill switch, handle bars, and gusset up the frame tabs and better shocks and A-Arms. It's still "Race Ready right off the Show Room Floor"... Isn't it? Or Is It??? LOL! Do you really think you'll get something for nothing? It's going to need some upgrades and reinforceing (just like all the others). Expect to come up with the difference yourself and plan for the unexpected.... It's just money!!!
Or you could wait for Honda and Yamaha to come out with their FI "race ready" quad (probably next year). But It will still be a compromise with suspension components or frames or price or whatever....

If you want a TRUE RACE READY QUAD to be competative with, then build it yourself for about $11,000.

Any "Pro Level" Quad is going to cost you alot more than that.

And It doesn't matter how much money you have in it, If you get HIT HARD Enough, or have a Bad Enough Wreck, it still will eventually BREAK!.. :p

[k&k_400ex_82]

Srry to burst your bubble but Tim farr runs no gussets. 100% stock frame ;) .

[Fred55]

They also replace those frames quite a few times a season.

[foxman_23]

Well its official. I broke my frame. Pulled the shock linkage bolt through the tabs just like had been rumored. I couldnt believ it when it happened. This was th first mx of the year. Even more ironic is the fact that last year I broke the stock swingarm on my 2003 KFX 400 on the exact same tabletop. Took many,many pics and will try to post on here.(May need help from someone on here) I will be sending these pics to Suzuki. Anyway I am a weldeer by trade so i have already re- welded and beefed everything up in hope it wont break again. Will keep you guys posted.:ermm:

[k&k_400ex_82]

Originally posted by Fred55
They also replace those frames quite a few times a season.

not denying that but the gentalman up above stated that everyone is reinforcing there frames.

[readybeartoe]

Originally posted by k&k_400ex_82
not denying that but the gentalman up above stated that everyone is reinforcing there frames.

I'm not going to sit hear and call you an idiot or anything and argue with you. I know if you are smart enough, you know what I meen. If you have a real race quad (any brand) and REALLY push it HARD racing, It's best to do your home work and reinforce the weak areas so that you will have the least amount of repairs. Unless you're replacing frames on a regular basis and they are given to you free. But that could get expensive for the average person. How has your 400ex frame held up? See? That's my point.

:ermm:

[QCquad83]

i agree with reinforcing your race frame, but we all know that honda has the best frame right now hands down, and has always had the best frames. (250R). no matter what anyones says honda by far has done thier homework on chassis and frames. Its been a proven fact that suzuki needs to quit worring about making thier machines faster and focus more on thier chassis. is there a quad out there that suzuki has produced that hasn't been know for frame problems? the old quadrunner always fell apart, the z400's always broke their frame, and the new ltz 450 got production pussed back due to the frame breaking in half. i see a problem here.

[Fred55]

What are you talking about Honda being the best for frames? Dont you know that theres a large number of 450Rs that have cracked their frames back where the shock tube connects to the upper towers, near the front of the rear plastic? Ive seen many pictures of 450R frames broken there. 400ex frames arent great either, ive seen 2 of my buddies both crack at the front shock mounts.

[LTZ400ApK]

i can post pics of Every brand of 450 out with a broke frame,None of which Truly hold up any better than the next,as far as the 2sissyR them Chassis Broke and still Brake just as fast, even the aftermarket R chassis crack or brake

I haven't Seen a Frame come from anyone that is "BulletProof"
Its a small price we pay for a awsome hobby

[TheJeSter1340]

How many Cannondale frames have you seen break from hard riding?

[Cindi]

You know a huge part in what breaks and what doesn't has a lot to do with how it is rode. Someone like Doug can ride it all year and break nothing because he is so smooth. Others can break bikes in 30 minutes. Doug was launching out of the Gatorpit with a stock axle, swingarm and tires and didn't break a thing.

;)

[readybeartoe]

Yeah! I was there and he WUZ SAILING!!:eek: over the finish line! I was AMAZED that the stock parts didn't break! Glad to see him and Jerimiah finishing like they did in the 2nd moto. And I'm a Honda fan! I think Jerimiah is just a little more aggresive (maybe too aggresive at times coming from the back of the pack) and I love to see him ride but nothing beats experiance with Doug. I think after JJ puts in more seat time on the new bike he will be on top. I saw them in Macon and JJ does what it takes to win just ask Spader. :p JJ tapped Spader's rear end over a little jump on the hill and spun him around. Risky but he got by him. Jerimiah just isn't having solid motos, BUT HE WILL!

[ill_lil_romey]

Originally posted by Cindi
You know a huge part in what breaks and what doesn't has a lot to do with how it is rode. Someone like Doug can ride it all year and break nothing because he is so smooth. Others can break bikes in 30 minutes.
;)

So true

[QCquad83]

Honda is the best overall. That why before all of the fourstrokes every frame was modeled after 250r. i'm not saying they don't break here and there but honda's stand up better than any other brand there is. and they have always have had better chassis design and handling feel

[jshtex]

Originally posted by QCquad83
we all know that honda has the best frame right now hands down, and has always had the best frames. (250R). no matter what anyones says honda by far has done thier homework on chassis and frames.

Dude have you even been in the 450r section of this site??? Try doing a search on frame in it and see how many have broken "here and there".

There is a HUGE difference in frame geometry and frame durability. They copied the 250r geometry.

Any of the 450s that are ridden hard are going to have some issues. Be thankful that you know where to look so maybe you can prevent the problem before it happens. It doesn't sound like too big a deal to mod it.

As for Suzuki doing anything about it, I don't see that happening, if someone gets hurt because of it and they admit fault by fixing even one of them a lawyer would have a field day with it. But maybe they will step up and prove me wrong, we can hope so.

[Cindi]

Originally posted by jshtex
[
As for Suzuki doing anything about it, I don't see that happening, if someone gets hurt because of it and they admit fault by fixing even one of them a lawyer would have a field day with it. But maybe they will step up and prove me wrong, we can hope so. [/B]

WOW! So if Suzuki were to fix something that may be breaking they would be admitting Fault? And if they admit to fault a lawyer would have a field day with it?

I guess all the factories should think about that and quit making quads becuase if something breaks they will have to deal with lawyers. Oh I got a better idea lets get the CPSC involved and help them ban ATV's then we wont have to worry about a factory making a quad that might have parts that might break. That is a great idea don't you think:huh

[readybeartoe]

I agree with Cindi even if she is a little sarcastic. :p I believe Suzuki will come through eventually with a solution IF there IS any problems with the LTR450. Unfortunatelly it probably won't happen this year but maybe when the 2007's roll out.
Has anyone been paying attention to Suzuki and their improvements on the GSXR'S (600,750 and 1000's) sport bikes in the last few years ? They have totally redesigned and improved them each year WITHOUT really needing to, just to stay on top! That should be telling us something about SUZUKI. They just might come out with a totally new redesigned 450 for 2007. :p Just ribbing you guys with the 06's. ;)

[readybeartoe]

Originally posted by readybeartoe
Jerimiah just isn't having solid motos, BUT HE WILL!
I wrote this before I read the race coverage! WhoooHooo! go Jerimiah!!!

[jshtex]

Originally posted by Cindi
WOW! So if Suzuki were to fix something that may be breaking they would be admitting Fault? And if they admit to fault a lawyer would have a field day with it?

I guess all the factories should think about that and quit making quads becuase if something breaks they will have to deal with lawyers. Oh I got a better idea lets get the CPSC involved and help them ban ATV's then we wont have to worry about a factory making a quad that might have parts that might break. That is a great idea don't you think:huh

You do realize that what you are describing is exactly what almost happened in the 80s right???

[Cindi]

Originally posted by jshtex
You do realize that what you are describing is exactly what almost happened in the 80s right???

Yes. but it didn't almost happen, it did happen. The factories backed out due to all the lawsuits and the CPSC or whatever you want to call those guys that want to ban ATV's. This is why the factories just now started making new updated quads and we all have more of a choice than a 400EX and a blaster or a $25,000.00 aftermarket quad. They had a ban for like 10 years or somthing like that, that said they couldn't make any new quads. It goes something like that. I may not have it 100% but I know I have it close.

[SRH]

Originally posted by QCquad83
i agree with reinforcing your race frame, but we all know that honda has the best frame right now hands down, and has always had the best frames. (250R). no matter what anyones says honda by far has done thier homework on chassis and frames. Its been a proven fact that suzuki needs to quit worring about making thier machines faster and focus more on thier chassis. is there a quad out there that suzuki has produced that hasn't been know for frame problems? the old quadrunner always fell apart, the z400's always broke their frame, and the new ltz 450 got production pussed back due to the frame breaking in half. i see a problem here.

is this a joke? honda frames suck, 300ex, 400ex, 250r, constantly break even when gusseted the metal is so chinsy i think they get there metal from tyco, i been running 2 years mx only on my yamaha, not so much as a stress mark ..and i broke a gusseted 400ex frame, stock a arms and swingarm:ermm: not knocking honda, my next quad could possibly be a 450r, but its standard if ur gonan race mx get your frame gussseted...if all the suzuki needs is a lil reinforcement on the rear linkage, that beats spending 200-600 bucks for gusseting and pc.....i would love to buy the suzuki but im giving it a year or two, to work out all the issues, and let the dust settle...see how good this thing really is...if i can get by with nerfs, skid, wheels, bars, and exhaust maybe some shock revalving, run it for a season sell it and do the same next year, it will save me alot of money and headaches...i could pretty much afford to race one like a dirtbike...

i would say honda frames are very poorly constructed, i have a 01 400, and some of the welds on it look like a retarded seagull took a sh1t. where my shock connects to the lower a-arm is completly cracked and ready to go any day now.

if you get a brand new quad, does warrenty cover broken frames?

[Specialist]

You do realize that what you are describing is exactly what almost happened in the 80s right???

In 1986 the CPSC issued a report in which the agency determined that there were approximately 2.4 million ATVs in use throughout the United States. The CPSC estimates that from 1982 to 2002, 5,239 people died from injuries associated with ATV use.

Shortly after the CPSC report was issued, the United States Justice Department filed a lawsuit alleging that ATVs and their manufacturers violated the Consumer Product Safety Act. In 1987 the various ATV manufacturers agreed to discontinue producing three-wheeled ATVs. Also manufactuers were spooked into getting rid of highpowered sport quads.

That is why it took till 1998 for honda to bring the 400ex to the market, which saw huge sales and hence the sport market was reborn. That is why manufactuers are VERY reluctant to admit fault on a safety issue.

[MX300ex]

wow y cant suzuki make 1 good frame on one quad?

[coryatver]

suzuki will come up with a solution to fix it. The 2007 LTR. You guys with the first year model are just going to have to fix it yourself. But you bought a suzuki what did you expect

i dont think its a big deal anyways, go buy one and if you break it then you got somthing to gripe about...im sure not to many people in this discussion ride as hard as jerimihah jones.

[LTZ400ApK]

Originally posted by coryatver
suzuki will come up with a solution to fix it. The 2007 LTR. You guys with the first year model are just going to have to fix it yourself. But you bought a suzuki what did you expect

Why do people keep sayin this?
ALL 450 Frames Are BRAKING most people i ride with have 450R"honda" and they brake their frames constantly even with gusset kits! guess ill start taking pics everytime we weld one up and start posting it

[k&k_400ex_82]

i want see all these cracks im curious where they are at.

[walty]

Originally posted by k&k_400ex_82
i want see all these cracks im curious where they are at.

it is almost a urban legend!!!!
every body talks about it ...but nobody saw it.....
i need pics!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

[motox450r]

i'm not ragging on the ltr frame, but i said before this bike came out the the frames would be suspect. i understand that all quads can have frame problems. but i do believe that honda has it down the best. the way a person rides is important as we know. i also believe that pep shocks are more frame friendly than other shocks, and i have been told that by very reliable sources too. i raced on a blown pep last year a few times ( didn't know it was) i bottomed out at least 50 times and tweaked my frame but never cracked it. and i mean i had some hard ones too. i had ridden at a local park a few times too. our gravity cavity took it toll on me. so i sent my shocks in for revalve and service, and that's when i found out. now there's a testament for ya.

My gearbox noise was just in 2nd gear. Now its in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, and its getting louder every ride. I'm running Bel Ray semi synthetic just like the Suzuki service rep said. They won't fix it so I'm gonna run it till it breaks.

[AceLtz]

Try different oil if its making the sound still. Having it break and trying to get them to fix it is not worth all the hassle. I dont know if it makes a difference which brand but ive used Golden Spectro 4 10/40 semi synthetic since i got it and i havent had a sound.

[Punk'd]

You think after the z400 frame probs they would start makeing them stronger..

I hope this isnt a problem for all you Suzuki 450 owners.

Originally posted by AceLtz
Try different oil if its making the sound still. Having it break and trying to get them to fix it is not worth all the hassle. I dont know if it makes a difference which brand but ive used Golden Spectro 4 10/40 semi synthetic since i got it and i havent had a sound.

I'll give the Spectro a try but its not the oil, its an internal gearbox problem or design flaw. If it manages to make it through the warranty without breaking I will split the cases myself and see whats up. But until then theres nothing else I can do, its been documented with the dealer and Suzuki and they won't do JACK about it because nothing is wrong. They still say its a "normal" sound, if you heard my LTR you would cover your ears it sounds so bad.

[readybeartoe]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
I'll give the Spectro a try but its not the oil, its an internal gearbox problem or design flaw. If it manages to make it through the warranty without breaking I will split the cases myself and see whats up. But until then theres nothing else I can do, its been documented with the dealer and Suzuki and they won't do JACK about it because nothing is wrong. They still say its a "normal" sound, if you heard my LTR you would cover your ears it sounds so bad.

You have a warranty and they still won't fix it???? If it is as bad as you say and you broke the engine in like you were suppose to, Post the Dealerships Name and Address and phone # on here! I will definately never buy anything from them! Or put your quad in the back of your truck and park your truck in their parking lot or as close as you can without having it towed everday with a BIG SIGN on it saying to call YOU before buying one of these from here. When dealership calls you, AND THEY WILL! Tell them you were just letting all their VALUED POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS know about your experiance with your purchase etc....They won't like that publicity. If they still won't fix it Put a FORSALE on it!

Suzuki dealers can't warranty anything without approval from Suzuki. I guess its really not the dealers fault.

[hondardr4life]

I don't know if all of this talk of frame probs, ect.. is true, but if so, I think Suzuki needs to do something about it. From the sound of it, my 89 R frame is holding up better than 1/2 of the 06's out there.

[Yamahauler_04]

Not really, the guys out there breaking frames ride hard enough to break almost any frame out there. This isn't something unique to the LTR.

I've seen pretty much every kind if frame broken without a crash except a Cannondale, and the old Lobo chassis.

[aroracer72]

You all are learning suzuki's attention to little details and quality control. Thye have great designs, great performance..and great ideas in general..but they dont have all the little niche for small stuff that honda/yamaha do.
Still a great quad, but not every suzuki will do this.....it jsut depends if you got one of them bad spit outs or good one from the factory.
CHAD

[walty]

here are foxman pics!!!
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6973/link1tv.th.png (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=link1tv.png)




http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4954/link37lq.th.png (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=link37lq.png)
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9163/link55fg.th.png (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=link55fg.png)

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6296/link41ra.th.png (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=link41ra.png)

[AceLtz]

wow, now everyone knows what needs to be gusseted. That part looks pretty weak

[readybeartoe]

Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
Suzuki dealers can't warranty anything without approval from Suzuki. I guess its really not the dealers fault.

Well that would be a good way to get Suzuki's attention if everyone did that. Suzuki has to get feedback from the dealer and if the dealer doesn't care (because they got their money!)then I guess Suzuki won't care.:(

AND Looking at those pics of the brand new broke bike MAKES MY STOMACH TURN! I can imagine what the owners feel like. It's ashame.

TO SUZUKI: DO SOMEHTING ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS!!! SO I WILL BUY ONE!!!:grr:

[spudss]

Need to get a link to there corp. email and everyone start emailing the piss out of them.. Plus sending that pic would help also.. Tell them the dealers are doing nothing and someone is going to get seriously hurt if they dont step up and do something...

[400excracer]

Originally posted by Yamahauler_04
Not really, the guys out there breaking frames ride hard enough to break almost any frame out there. This isn't something unique to the LTR.

I've seen pretty much every kind if frame broken without a crash except a Cannondale, and the old Lobo chassis. It is a problem. This weekend I saw a 15 year old break his frame around the rear shock. His LTR had elkas all the way around and the kid only weighed 105 lbs. If he had weighed more, it would have broke muck sooner. The rest of the bike is great, but Suzuki needs to fix the problem and replace everyones frames.

[GE4x4]

Found this on another forum. Sounds like Suzuki needs to step up to the plate.

I have owned my r450 for one month now and i just put elka triple rate shocks on with full adjust ments because the front stockers were to harsh on the choppy ground. so i went to a freinds track for the day and i made some small adjustments the the front suspention and it was working awsome. even over a 70footer. well i was doing the jump hammering in 3rd when i droped the nose in for the landing the front end soaked it right up then rear end hit and i felt the frame hit the ground whitchs was no big deal until i realized it stayed on the ground. so i hit the bracks and get off and where is my rear shock its laying on the ground. well the spring and some other peaces to the shock were any way. well what happend is when i landed the linkeg from the rear shock were it bolts to the frame riped the mounting tabs right off of the frame and then the link ramed into the ground witch made the shock snap the bottom off and there i sat with a band new race quad with a busted frame. i was worned about this from a friend that seen i happen to two other ones at the races out west. also in my new magazine the show a pic of Jeramia Jones with the same problem with his. the linkage mount snaps right off. So beware this is the week point of the suzuki at this point. and just for the record i have never had a poblem with my Yfz or my 450r will doing all the same jumps and racing them at Amatur/Expert level all sesone long. i havent even race the quad racer yet and i already have to take it back. im taking it to the dealer in the moring ill let you know if the are going to fix it or not. im just glad that my elka read didnt come yet or that would be broke and id be realy mad then. well thats all for now.

[berge75]

I welded mine after seeing some of the problems people where having with the bolt pulling through,and haven't had any problems yet. Once you remove the link from the frame you will understand why they are pulling through. They bored a large hole in the mount and then installed a step washer which left too little mount material(3.75) towards the back of the mount. The little tack weld ,on the front side towards the frame,is left holding the load which isn't quite enough.
If you weld the washer all the way around,like what was described in this thread,there shouldn't be any more issues.It's an easy fix.Suzuki messed up ,but i can't sit around and wait for them to come up with a fix for it.

[400exBro]

Does anyone know the distance from the edge of the bolt hole(close to the edge where it isn't attached to the frame) to the end of the mounting tab(the end that does not attach to the frame).

General rule of thumb is that the distance from the edge of the hole to the end of the part must be approximently 1.5 times the diameter of the pin or bolt.
Wondering if the engineers missed that?

[Kilabanshee]

I was just at joe byrd's riding school and a 120lbs kid overcleared a small table no means a super hard landing and snaped his frame. Im def not getting a 06 ltr.

[450rJam]

I dont see any way suzuki can save face without making it right with you ltr owners.
you would think that after waiting 3 years they would have done some real testing under race conditions.
I do wish you all the best of luck, with the honda/yammy/zuki
competition we will all be the winners in the end by the big 3 pushing each other to new levels of performance.

[need2ride]

Well i talked to shawn G out at suzuki/Yoshi over team suzuki he said the first gen 06 ltr's had the problem the 2nd gen does not have that problem????not sure i am going to red bud this weekend we will find out i guess??? lol


all i can say is i will take this bike right down and show shawn at team suzuki's trailer lol first hand!!!!!!!!


i am realy worried about this now

[aroracer72]

itS TRUE...SECOND GEN ARE ALL FIXED..ONLY PROBLEMS WERE FRAME LINKAGE MOUNT TABS BREAKING OFF....ITS EASY TO CHECK. iF TEHRES AN EXTRA WELD AND NOW HAS A COMPLETE BEAD AROUND THE TABS..THEN ITS SECOND GEN AND WILL HAVE no PROBLEMS.
chad

dang caps....sorry

[swstandring]

I was just down my local dealer and they have 2 LTR's on the showroom floor, one that has been there for at least 6 weeks and a new one that just showed up. I looked at the area where the frames have been breaking and on the older bike the weld is incomplete while the newer bike has a complete circular weld at the suspect area.

I guess if you are in the market for an LTR you should keep an eye out on this as the newer bikes have in fact been changed.