Honda Fuel Injection?

[jakethebt]

Any word on when Honda will go to Fuel Injection?

[whiteflash]

they have, just not for sport quads...

[GOTFEAR]

I hop never i like the original basics

[hauck400ex]

it would suck if they did... anytime you ever did anything you would have to get your computer remapped or spend $300+ on a power commander... i prefer jetting, less problems, easier to fix

[GPracer2500]

I like messing with carburators but I look forward to fuel injection. My buddy has a FI Raptor 700 and a PowerCommander and it's great! The fueling can be fine-tuned in away that is not possible with a carburator. Once you're settup to tweak the maps (PowerCommander or equivelent and a 10+ year old laptop computer) jetting changes are WAY faster and easier than with a carb.

Dynojet allready has almost 50 maps for the Raptor700 with different intake/exhaust settups and they keep adding more configurations. It's amazing how different the maps are for settups that you'd think would require similar or the same fueling. That's indicative of how precise fuel injection is in giving an engine exactly what it wants.

It's kinda sad that carburator tuning will be a dying art/science someday. On the other hand, tuning with fuel injection is really the same thing except you're changing numbers on a chart on your computer screen instead of jets in a carburator.

[PismoLocal]

Originally posted by hauck400ex
it would suck if they did... anytime you ever did anything you would have to get your computer remapped or spend $300+ on a power commander... i prefer jetting, less problems, easier to fix

Corret me if im wrong but there is no remapping needed when using performance parts on EFI, the EFI has a sensor in the intake that makes the fuel injectors automatically compensate for the higher flow of air, The mapping is ignition and doesnt have to do with the air to fuel ratio that you change when your jetting.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
Corret me if im wrong but there is no remapping needed when using performance parts on EFI, the EFI has a sensor in the intake that makes the fuel infectors automatically compensate for the higher flow of air, The mapping is ignition and doesnt have to do with the air to fuel ratio that you change when your jetting.

Not correct. There are different kinds of fuel injection systems--open loop and closed loop. Open loop is the simplest and DOES NOT adjust for intake and exhaust modifications. The Raptor (and I'm almost sure, the new LTZ450) use an open loop system. The only thing the Raptor FI adjusts for is ambient air density, i.e. it can adjust for altitude.

If you add an aftermarket air filter, remove the airbox lid, remove the spark arrestor, add an aftermarket axhaust, etc. the Raptor will NOT know about it and run lean. That's why there are fuel programmers available that adjust the FI to compensate for that stuff. Even completely stock, the Raptor runs lean to satisfy the EPA. Programming devices rectify that.

Closed-loop systems use lambda sensors, also known as oxygen sensors, (and perhaps other sensors) to measure the air-fuel ratio actually being burned in the engine. That allows the FI to adjust if it is lean because of imporved airflow through the engine. But even then, most stock EFI systems will only allow so much adjustment to take place without aftermarket interventionl.

[450r51]

Originally posted by GPracer2500
Not correct. There are different kinds of fuel injection systems--open loop and closed loop. Open loop is the simplest and DOES NOT adjust for intake and exhaust modifications. The Raptor (and I'm almost sure, the new LTZ450) use an open loop system. The only thing the Raptor FI adjusts for is ambient air density, e.g. it can adjust for altitude.

If you add an aftermarket air filter, remove the airbox lid, remove the spark arrestor, add an aftermarket axhaust, etc. the Raptor will NOT know about it and run lean. That's why there are fuel programmers available that adjust the FI to compensate for that stuff. Even completely stock, the Raptor runs lean to satisfy the EPA. Programming devices rectify that.

Closed-loop systems use lambda sensors, also known as oxygen sensors, (and perhaps other sensors) to measure the air-fuel ratio actually being burned in the engine. That allows the FI to adjust if it is lean because of imporved airflow through the engine. But even then, most stock EFI systems will only allow so much adjustment to take place without aftermarket interaventionl.


so the new suzuki isnt all that special, seeing as how u have remap it, just like you have to rejet it on a carbeurated quad. seems to me that the fuel injection isnt all that special! your just paying more for fuel injection.....when you have to tune it the same way you would tune a carb......fuel injection is a waste of money...unless they get the closed loop system on atvs.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by PismoLocal
Hmmmm....... I follow what your saying but how does changing the map put more fuel in the motor so that your not running lean.

The fuel map is the data set that tells the FI system how much fuel to deliver at X rpm and Y throttle opening.

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by 450r51
so the new suzuki isnt all that special, seeing as how u have remap it, just like you have to rejet it on a carbeurated quad. seems to me that the fuel injection isnt all that special! your just paying more for fuel injection.....when you have to tune it the same way you would tune a carb......fuel injection is a waste of money...unless they get the closed loop system on atvs.

Not at all. Fuel injection is SOOO much more precise than a carburator. You can never get perfect fueling at all RPMs and all throttle openings with a carb--it's always a bit of a compromise. Fuel injection doesn't have that problem. The result is superior throttle response (this is a BIG one), better "drivability", better starting under adverse conditions, more compact, lower emissions, etc...

I'm not sure a closed loop system on a sport quad would be all that much better. You'd still likely want to re-program to get the best (non-EPA compliant) performance. I suppose closed loop would be good for casual riders who wanted to add a slip-on pipe or something but wasn't looking for too much in the way of performance gains--yet still wanted the engine to run well.

[jakethebt]

OK... so now I understand on who likes FI and who does not. My question is does anyone know when Honda will go to FI on the TRX400EX? And I guess now, are the Honda systems currently in production open or closed loop systems?

[GPracer2500]

no one knows when

[coryatver]

my brothers cousin who works for chevy said honda will be putting it in around 2009:o