update on my shocks

[450robot]

i dunno if anyone remembers, but i was having a client from my fathers company machine me out parts to make my own shock, well, just got the responce back from about 2 days ago, and the news sucked kinda

it turned out the top and bottom caps of the shocks have sketches and extrusions with no measurement, so they wouldnt read, so i had to fix all of those, i also fixed up the bottom shock mount, along with updating some other measurements

the new top cap is a non adjustable piggyback rez (450r style, with rez tucked backwards), which will use an elka bladder

along with a new body that will allow me to use internals from an elka lt shock

Originally posted by 450robot


along with a new body that will allow me to use internals from an elka lt shock Why not just buy one and use that?

[antman]

wow man that looks even better than before! i cant wait to see the final probuct. i am betting they are gonna be pretty darn sweet.

[450robot]

Originally posted by MXFourTwoEight
Why not just buy one and use that?

if you had the chance to build your own shock, or buy the mainstream shock, what would you do?

Originally posted by 450robot
if you had the chance to build your own shock, or buy the mainstream shock, what would you do? Buy an elka. I wouldn't buy home made suspension.

[antman]

definatly build my own ... thats an experiance you dont get every day. plus gain a he!! of a better understanding as to how and why your shocks work the way they do

Originally posted by antman
definatly build my own ... thats an experiance you dont get every day. plus gain a he!! of a better understanding as to how and why your shocks work the way they do My grandfather is on the R&D board for Ohlins, I know plenty about shocks, which is how I know suspension is NOT a D.I.Y project.

[Diedrich]

he said he had some one making the parts for him so hes not doing it all himself...it can be a d.i.y project if you want it to be..whats it gonna hurt? aslong as the first time he takes it out he dont try doing some big *** jumps or some ****

[stalefish_132]

MXFourTwoEight i got a little poem for you it goes somthing like this...

"Roses are red
violets are blue
SO WHY DON'T YOU SHUT IT!"

building your own shock would be pretty intense and why not give him some credit for what he's doing. you try doing what he's got going.

Originally posted by stalefish_132
MXFourTwoEight i got a little poem for you it goes somthing like this...

"Roses are red
violets are blue
SO WHY DON'T YOU SHUT IT!"

building your own shock would be pretty intense and why not give him some credit for what he's doing. you try doing what he's got going. I help build shocks for race cars, I know all about shocks. Don't go there with me.

[xsr_racing28c]

Originally posted by MXFourTwoEight
I help build shocks for race cars, I know all about shocks. Don't go there with me.

Well why do you guys use "homemade shocks" on your race cars??? Just give him credit for doing something that not everyone would be able to do..

Why don't you design and build up some of your own shocks, and lets see what the dfferences are and whos are better?? Since your the "knowledgable" one on this thread......

Originally posted by xsr_racing28c
Well why do you guys use "homemade shocks" on your race cars??? Just give him credit for doing something that not everyone would be able to do..

Why don't you design and build up some of your own shocks, and lets see what the dfferences are and whos are better?? Since your the "knowledgable" one on this thread...... Because Ohlins trained my grandfather, as well as having over 25 years experience with suspension. We're not whipping together shocks from guts of a few different brands, we put in hundreds of hours of R&D work to make the shock perform as well as they can. I'm trying to prevent an unfortunate accident, because alot of people think they can work on thier own race car shocks, and usually the results arent pretty. They throw the geometry of the car all out of whack, which is what might happen to his quad. Sorry for trying to help.

[Racing Rice]

MXFourTwoEight,

Dude you know everything don't you? Give the guy some props already. He's being creative and actually doing something with the talent that he has. They probably won't be perfect for a first run shock, but that is half of the fun.. The learning process. Do you think great inventors always got it right on the first try? He11 no they didn't, you have to fail before you can succeed. If he gets NOTHING else out of this project he has learned something, and gained the chance to say "I built my own shock."

Why do you insist on p1ss1ing on everyone's parade?

450robot,
Keep up the awesome work! Best of luck to you on your project.:)

Originally posted by Racing Rice

Why do you insist on p1ss1ing on everyone's parade?
Because it's just not something you should do yourself. If trying to prevent bodily harm is pissing on a parade, then I guess I need to drink some more water, because I try to do that often.

[xsr_racing28c]

I agree with Rice, You can't make a quality product without trial and error, and i'm sure 450robot is not gonna put these things together and go out and hit a 40ft gap with them, i'm sure he'll start out slow and compress the shocks while they are on the quad, and move slowly from there. Your acting like an overcontrolling parent, not letting him try something, in which he may learn from, and gain knowledge just as you and your grandfather have from having hands on experience with.. You can't learn about something by reading about it, you need hands on, experience..

I can't wait to see your finished product 450robot.. keep the updates coming!!!!

[Quad18star]

The shock looks great ... hopefully everything works out fine for you .

I give you props for actually taking the time to design your own stuff , and I hope you take as much time making sure the shock will handle everything properly before you go out and try jumping large with it .

I understand where MxFourTwoEight is comming from ... he's concerned with what might happen if things aren't setup properly . It's always great to see members looking out for the health of others .

But on the other hand ..... shock builders have to start somewhere ... Elka did it , Axis did it , Ohlins did it etc . Trial and error is what makes perfection . Someone with one of those shock building companies had an idea like you had one time and drew it out before the company was ever founded .... maybe one day guys will be out riding your shocks and it'll be in the market with the others . Keep up the good work !!!

[MOFO]

Originally posted by MXFourTwoEight
Buy an elka. I wouldn't buy home made suspension.

Did Elka become a top shock builder by buying someone elses or did they build their own??? Its a good thing no one follows your logic - if so we would all be driving the same car, living in the same house, using the same computer...etc.

Everyone has to start somewhere in this world! Give the kid some credit for trying something on his own. You dont know what will happen... who knows what this could turn into. He's not selling this to anyone.

For being 15 years old, you sure act like you've seen the world and know everything there is to know... that will change when you become an adult. :rolleyes:

...with that out of the way...

Please keep us updated on your shocks - document everything! I wish I had access to the machines and equipment to try something like this!

[450robot]

thanks for all the support guys, im hoping everything turns out good, and hey, if not... i will go back and change what was wrong, its not like the parts are all fused together.

and like you guys said, im not gonna go out and hammer them, not knowing how the materials, components, and other parts will react... i am going to take it step by step, form just mounting them up, and making everything is in order, to compressing them, checking for binding and all that fun stuff, followed by some slow passes around my yard, then through the trails, gradually taking the speed up, then i will take them apart, and make sure there is no damage on any parts, then i will reassemble them and take them through our xc practice track, which has a variety of woops, rocky sections, water crosses, and small jumps

then if that all works out, maybe try some bigger jumps, or give them to a friend for further testing, seeing as im not the best mx guy, period

should be an experience

and i dont really care what experience you say you have over the internet, until i see some proof, or effort of what you can do, it means nothing

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 450robot


and i dont really care what experience you say you have over the internet, until i see some proof, or effort of what you can do, it means nothing

Dont worry about that - keep doing what your doing. As you already mentioned, be careful during your "field testing".

[flattrack450]

apparently MxFourTwoEight never built his "first" set of shocks. just a miracle man that bypassed the learing curve i guess!

Originally posted by Quad18star


I understand where MxFourTwoEight is comming from ... he's concerned with what might happen if things aren't setup properly . It's always great to see members looking out for the health of others .

Yes. We just did an Indy Lites gearbox for a driver that did the exact, and I mean EXACT same thing 450r is doing. Designed his own suspension set up, had the parts made/bought parts and slapped a shock together. The geometry of the car was so messed up that it was causing excess stress on the whole rear end, which ended up ripping the right rear suspension off, causing him to spin into the wall, killing him. That's why i'm "pissing on his parade". If this shock malfunctions qnd you end up hurt or worse, don't say no one warned you.

[bama400ex]

mxfourtwoeight, its great you are concerned about the safety of a fellow rider. but with your way of thinking we should all still be living in a cave and amazed by fire. im glad to see more people stepping up and trying something new. and yes it is something dangerous to mess with but with somebody going to great links with something like this dont you think safety has crossed their mind. all that you are doing is calling him stupid and trying to make yourself look smart. and im not saying that you are not smart, but you are the one thats starting to look like an idiot. if you know so much, please share it. and your grandfathers resume dont count. sharing your knowledge would be better than to just keep saying '' you shouldnt do this'' ''you dont know what your doing'' etc. so help him out. lets here why its a bad idea to mix and match parts. explain some supension geometry to us. im here to learn and so are alot of others so help us out. come back with some good hardcore technical info and you might redeem yourself. but dont go quoting something in some supension book. or dont go to another bulletion borad asking stupid questions to help you out. somebody might catch it. we want to hear your real world knowledge.

[coolex]

i personnally hope they come out great

[Racing Rice]

MXFourTwoEight

I can understand where you are coming from. However, instead of shooting his ideas down why not try to make suggestions that would improve his suspension. You obviously "know" so much about suspension I'm sure you could give him a very words of wisdom that would help him achieve his goal instead of causing him to doubt himself.:rolleyes:

[250R-Dee]

I guess I will join the "Shutup MXFourTwoEight" bandwagon.

Since you are so versed in suspension dynamics why don't you give him some pointers. Such as: valving specs , fluid dynamics, spring rates, spring bind limits, dampening settings, rebound settings, blah blah blah......

Do I know about supsenion? Yes! I have been dealing with aftermarket car suspension for as long as you have been alive and I applaud 450robot's effort to build something that is his own. R&D will help him improve his design after the initial set is produced.

[hardkoratvmxr]

wanna make me a prototype for the good ole 300ex? lol. keep up the good work and if you keep working at it you will probably get noticed and hired by a big company for doin things like this

[fast_enough]

I think what hes doing is great...everywhere had to startout somewhere. He could be making the next best shock, he could be making the next death trap. MXFourTwoEight the deal is you take risks to get somewhere in life, simple as that. Like everyone said, trial and error.

And yea MXFourTwoEight you seem to know what you are talking about somewhat of the time, but for being 15, I'm just wondering how you achieve all this. You talk about knowing everything about shocks and whatnot, and you help build them for race cars, and you built gearboxes for them etc. And I have read from your posts before that you work for some large company designing stuff in photoshop for them. So what is it you exactly do? I read quite often that you are working for somewhere.

BTW I've been wondering what kind of quad do you ride?

Sorry for "pissing on your parade" MXFourTwoEight, but im wondering.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by MXFourTwoEight
Yes. We just did an Indy Lites gearbox for a driver that did the exact, and I mean EXACT same thing 450r is doing. Designed his own suspension set up, had the parts made/bought parts and slapped a shock together. The geometry of the car was so messed up that it was causing excess stress on the whole rear end, which ended up ripping the right rear suspension off, causing him to spin into the wall, killing him. That's why i'm "pissing on his parade". If this shock malfunctions qnd you end up hurt or worse, don't say no one warned you.


And 450Robot isn't going to just slap on the shocks, and go racing right away and start pounding on an un tested product. He has the tools to do a good job, it sounds like he has done his homework on this. If he wants to build his own shocks let him. He has the right idea on how to test them, and make shure that everything in them is working right. So unless your going to start giving him advice on what to do since you obvioulsy know so much :rolleyes: I sugest that you might want to stay out of this thread.

[antman]

or start his own company and give the rest some real compitition... he!! i will almost allways but from the little guy aposed to the big company ... i am excited i cant wait to see how they come out and how they work... i am rooting for ya!!

[250R-Dee]

Originally posted by MXFourTwoEight
Yes. We just did an Indy Lites gearbox for a driver that did the exact, and I mean EXACT same thing 450r is doing. Designed his own suspension set up, had the parts made/bought parts and slapped a shock together. The geometry of the car was so messed up that it was causing excess stress on the whole rear end, which ended up ripping the right rear suspension off, causing him to spin into the wall, killing him. That's why i'm "pissing on his parade". If this shock malfunctions qnd you end up hurt or worse, don't say no one warned you.

I think you are confusing a shock with the entire suspension setup. The setup in your make-believe story had issuses with the geometry (connection points on the frame or a-arms).
"The geometry of the car was so messed up"

Poor WELDING (common problem), incorrect strength of metal, and lack of R&D probably contributed to the supposed failure too.

As long as the shock length is correctly macthed to the a-arm design (normal or LT) and the internal parts are made from quality items these shocks will work just fine.

Your post that I just quoted proves that you know very little about suspension. :eek2:

[450robot]

haha, i think mxfourtwoeight is getting grilled

but, again, thanks for the compliments, i know they should be pretty cool, and if they dont work that well, and i cant fix the problems, at least i know ive gotten a head start on design, troubleshooting, and r&d for my future

someone is interested in the elkas that i was going to use for the internal valving, gas bladder, and lower shock body seal head

but its ok, i ordered some works g-series w/compression adjustment

so these next couple weeks im going to be working on a new desing to accomodate the works components... that is once i get them, and tear the apart for observation and measurment

i am also going to have jim (the guy who programs the lathes that will be cutting my parts, and my cadd teacher, who has been designing and machining custom hotrod motor and chassis parts... yah, i know they might not be experienced in the suspension division of things, but i will take all the experience i can get when making these, hoping that they come out as planned

[hardkoratvmxr]

i wouldnt use works type internals because they use ball type valving instead of the disk type

[400ex28]

Yea, i would go ahead and use Elka type internals

[Quad18star]

I remember seeing guys run Elka shocks WAY back in the day ... ok maybe not that long ago .... but long enough before they were big in the ATV industry .

I first seen Elka shocks at a small motocross event and the guy said he was just doing some testing on them and said they weren't handling all that well . I asked where he got them from and told me it was a small company out of Quebec . ALmost 10 years later , look where they're at now ... one of the top builders in the industry .

Just goes to show you that hard work pays off . Start off small and maybe someday your shocks will be on some of the top pro quads in the world .

[bama400ex]

lol i missed the part about him being 15.the only thing he designs is new ways to hand somebody a 9/16.

[400exrider707]

Im assuming you dont actually own the copy of inventor your using? I hope your only planning on using these for yourself and not going any further with it. Unless you own your own copy of inventor which would be in the $5000 range, if you try and sell your idea at all, the school or business that you drew these at can take the idea from you and say that it was on their software. Just a heads up, but otherwise SWEEEEEEET!!!:macho

[pastfast125]

if these work good, wanna make me a set for real cheap? :p

[antman]

if they work good i would buy a set when i finally get a new quad!

[450robot]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
Im assuming you dont actually own the copy of inventor your using? I hope your only planning on using these for yourself and not going any further with it. Unless you own your own copy of inventor which would be in the $5000 range, if you try and sell your idea at all, the school or business that you drew these at can take the idea from you and say that it was on their software. Just a heads up, but otherwise SWEEEEEEET!!!:macho

well, its not the schools copy persay (did i spell that right?), but my cadd teacher gave me the disc, and a serial number so i could install it on my home computer to use