too rich ?

[DAVE14]

my 12.5 to 1 440 runs great with the lid off k&n etc. but we have a really wet dirty spring so far & if I put my lid on its like Im smothering it & hurts performance big time & smells a bit like gas in the box im not the most knowledgable about the carb on this thing , but its the stock Keihn with I beleive a 170 jet can this be turned down a bit to run right in the muddy season (lid on) & back to normal open lid & more fuel for summer?

[honda460ex]

So if you are running 12.5 to 1 compression, then you are running race gas. I honestly think that you are just going to have to live with it the way it is. You can try and jet it down, but in doing so it's going to not run as good, and even run a little warmer. Maybe warmer than it should. And you want to keep that motor as cool as possible on top. . Of course gas serves two purposes, compression and cooling the motor. If you restrict air flow, you have to cut down on the gas getting to the motor as well. And I really don't think it will work, and if it does, not well at all. BUT, another thing.... Depending on the cam you are running, you may not be able to run the factory air-box lid at all. I know a stage 2 hotcam you can not.... Anything stage 1, probably can...

[pteknique]

Yes you need to rejet. Your plug should be a light tan color. If you jet with air box lid on then you'll have to rejet when you take it off. The bike will not lose power if you go down on jetting if it's to rich. It will actually gain power because it's jetted right. Just do a wot test. Meaning get to about 3rd or 4th gear wide open and while your still wide open throttle kill the motor. Then pull the plug and look at it. If it's still wet then your still to rich. If it looks nice and tan then your main jet is fine. If it is still running bad then adj your needle a clip at a time to clean up the middle. If your not running race gas you'll never get that thing jetted right. So, make sure you have race gas in there when you start to jet it.

[pteknique]

One more thing. You'll run a bigger jet in the colder months and a smaller (leaner) in the summer.

[DAVE14]

I forgot to mention its a stage 3 hotcam on top of there but i never heard of not neing able to put the lid on due to a cam change I know its a heavy breather & likes the higer revs ,but never heard you need an open air box for that cam

[pteknique]

It makes no difference what cam you have. It's all in the jetting. If you want to run the lid then jet it with the lid on. You would have alittle more power with the lid off. But your right it don't matter as long as it's jetted right.

[honda460ex]

All I got to say about that, bull crap.... It's not all about jetting... A motor must have a sufficient amount of air flow to rev out. Try it and see what happens... I'm speaking from experience, not what someone else has told me... If you wanted to go outside right now and rejet mine down and put the lid on, you will NOT be able to. It's a 460 now and I did it all myself, so I know what I'm talking about... Even when it was only built to a 406 with the old school stage 2 hotcam it had to have the air box lid off to rev out. And tell me I'm full of it, I don't care, I think you don't know a thing. And I guess you're saying my jetting was to rich between switching a K&N Filter and a UNI too???? Because with an UNI, my old 406 wouldn't even rev over 7,500 rpms... It was not getting the air that cam was trying to pull in. Switch to a K&N, and she would rev to the limiter at the drop of a hot while cramming through the gears. So you all can play jetting games all you want, but if you aren't letting the motor have the air that you have built it to consume, then you are screwed from the beginning. :blah: I know my cams too, I'm only on my third one... But I don't know what I'm talking about.... :blah:

[GPracer2500]

Originally posted by pteknique
It makes no difference what cam you have. It's all in the jetting. If you want to run the lid then jet it with the lid on. You would have alittle more power with the lid off. But your right it don't matter as long as it's jetted right.

This is correct. Lid on or off--you can run either way you just need to jet appropriately for each settup.

[honda460ex]

I totally disagree with you two... But hey, if you wanna go for it, do so. But my thoughts are, even if you can get it to rev out all the way, jetting it down will cause the motor to run hotter. And with a 440 and 12.5 to 1 compression, you want that thing to run as cool as possible. Otherwise, your engine life will be compromised. Optimum power, cooler engine, no air box lid.. That's my suggestion. I would just buy an outerwears cover for your filter, and the top of the box. That to me would be the wiser decision. My friend has the outerwear on top of his box, and it does keep out most of everything.

[GPracer2500]

The Outerwear lid is a good idea. Uni also makes those little round filter inserts. Those work pretty well if you use a whole bunch of them (i.e. just about cover the lid with them).

[pteknique]

I'm speaking from experience, not what someone else has told me... LOL And no I don't know a thing I just do this for a living. But, I don't come to this board to argue. You should pretty much state what you want to say and not try to put other people down. All bikes run different period!

[DAVE14]

thanks for the advice guys I didnt think think this would turn ugly I just got a lot of mud & water to go through till things dry up

[honda460ex]

It's all good, It's all good... My brotherinlaw does it for a living too though... So hey, we live to disagree I guess. And no problem.

[jordan_m6]

ok so you two have come to a happy medium.

you can only pull in so much air with a k&N then you have to match the fuel to the air. (rich or lean) if you put the lid on you are resticting the air flow causing less air making it rich may be the cause of the gas smell. go down a jet if you are putting lid on.

Or you can go with a foam filter for the mud they handle the mud better. k&ns are a dry weather filter. may have to rejet for that also.