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View Full Version : Filter Test w/ Velocity Reading



Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:05 AM
Here is a Filter Comparison that Chad502ex/Precision Motorsports did to show Velocity #'s and HP #'s on the Top Filter's on the Market Including the NEW DRG's. EACH Filter Was Dialed-IN to the SAME A/F Ratio so that this would be a Fair Test. This Test was performed on a 440ex. This was done with Stock 400ex Airbox and Lid off. We are showing Veloctiy #'s to show how much air was being pulled through the Filter.


Filter Applications:

TwinAir Powerflow Kit- 400ex

K&N- 400ex, 04'/05' TRX450r

DASA- 400ex with Pagram Adapter, 04/05 TRX450r with Pagram Adapter, 06' TRX450r with No adapter

DRG 06- 400ex with Pagram Adapter, 04'/05' TRX450r with Pagram Adapter, 06' TRX450r No adapter

DRG EXR- 400ex No Adapter Needed, 04/05 TRX450r NoAdapter Needed, 06' TRX450r No Adapter Needed

We tried to test FCI Test Filter in this, but it would not fit the 400ex or the 04/05 TRX450r box. It will Fit the 06' Box.

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:06 AM
Here is the Velocity #'s that we got. We achived these readings by using a TESTO 445 Hand Held Velocity Meter. NIST Tracable Calabration Due date 04/19/06. We did this by placing the probe in the Air Boot Resonator Hole. We measured the flow from the Center of the Boot. It was repositioned everytime in the same location. We tested every 1,000 RPM from Idle to 9K(Stock CDI). This tells us what the engine pulls through the filter.

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:07 AM
..

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:08 AM
Results

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:09 AM
Here is the A/F Ratio. We set ALL the filters To the same Ratio. The jetting to get this was:

Looking at the DYNO Graph:

Blue= TwinAir powerflow: K175 main

Red= K&N: K175 main

Green= DASA: K178 main

Dark Blue= DRG 06: K178 main

Brown= DRG EXR: K180 main

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:10 AM
Here is the Hp #'s. With all the A/F's in the same place we can see the comparison on the filters.

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:11 AM
Here it is boken down:

DRG EXR vs TwinAir

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:12 AM
DRG EXR vs K&N

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:13 AM
DRG EXR vs DASA

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:13 AM
DRG EXR vs DRG 06

Mobile Dyno
03-07-2006, 04:14 AM
K&N vs DASA

Chino886
03-07-2006, 12:45 PM
I was considering buying the DRG filter until I saw these Dynos, at three times the cost for the same performance of the K & N.

Good looking filter though!

chad502ex
03-07-2006, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Chino886
I was considering buying the DRG filter until I saw these Dynos, at three times the cost for the same performance of the K & N.

Good looking filter though!

K&N filters cost:

69.99 for filter and 29.99 for outerwear- that's $100 for K&N

who said DRG filters will cost 3x that? maybe for you!

you better research a bit before you say "3x" :rolleyes:

k&N filters have half the filtration, not as much performance, as tested above, at about the same cost of others.

same performance? don't you see that K&N is 1hp lower than DRG? are you blind or just stupid?

Chino886
03-07-2006, 01:20 PM
Sorry Chad,

I did not know that I was insulting you......but I am not blind or stupid. From looking at the filters it looks like you tested a "used" K & N to the DRG.....could that of possibly made the difference.

How do you test for protection? I did not see that.

I am not trying to start an argument or anything like that, but when you called my blind and stupid........unnecessary.

I did not interpret that dyno as "1 HP", then again, maybe I don't know jack about reading those either.....but they seemed very similar in max HP, just at different RPM range!

Sorry, didn't mean to start a battle by posting.

As you know, I am very interested in your work and did not want to insult!

Chino886

Sorry, I forgot how much you told me your filters were....but I remember it being more than that!

chad502ex
03-07-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Chino886
Sorry Chad,

I did not know that I was insulting you......but I am not blind or stupid. From looking at the filters it looks like you tested a "used" K & N to the DRG.....could that of possibly made the difference.

How do you test for protection? I did not see that.

I am not trying to start an argument or anything like that, but when you called my blind and stupid........unnecessary.

I did not interpret that dyno as "1 HP", then again, maybe I don't know jack about reading those either.....but they seemed very similar in max HP, just at different RPM range!

Sorry, didn't mean to start a battle by posting.

As you know, I am very interested in your work and did not want to insult!

Chino886

Sorry, I forgot how much you told me your filters were....but I remember it being more than that!

i meant are you blind or just stupid not to see that the results are 1hp better? It's ok to have your opinion. Although you probally interpreted me as being offended I wasn't. I do not offend easily so feel free to snap back. You find a filter that performs better than let me know how the filtration is better too. The filtration of the K&N is half as much.

Just wait until this weekend when the revised DRG EXR filter is public!! ;)

03-07-2006, 05:18 PM
sorry to say, but im sticking with my K&N, all of you speak of bad filtering, but yet ive never even had a tiny bit of dust in my intake boot ever, works fine for me, and i dont think its worth the money to make a switch to gain .4hp, but thats just me, also how is it not as much performance, from looking at the graph it appears the k&n took 2nd place, not bad id say, i just cleaned my k&n today, after riding in dust for 2 weeks, it had about 3mm of dust on the outer layer all over it, but none in the intake boot at all, seems to work fine to me :confused:

sorry chad, this is the first time ive had to disagree with u lol, how much does that drg cost anyway? i do agree with one thing tho, that design is obviously more surface area, which will gain more hp, but .4 isnt much to me, may be to you being your into high hp bikes, but to switch filters for .4 hp seems ridiculous to me

chad502ex
03-07-2006, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Yurik Norton
sorry to say, but im sticking with my K&N, all of you speak of bad filtering, but yet ive never even had a tiny bit of dust in my intake boot ever, works fine for me, and i dont think its worth the money to make a switch to gain .4hp, but thats just me, also how is it not as much performance, from looking at the graph it appears the k&n took 2nd place, not bad id say, i just cleaned my k&n today, after riding in dust for 2 weeks, it had about 3mm of dust on the outer layer all over it, but none in the intake boot at all, seems to work fine to me :confused:

sorry chad, this is the first time ive had to disagree with u lol, how much does that drg cost anyway? i do agree with one thing tho, that design is obviously more surface area, which will gain more hp, but .4 isnt much to me, may be to you being your into high hp bikes, but to switch filters for .4 hp seems ridiculous to me


Look at it this way,.... it's a secret pist!

You keep running that K&N, which is fine, and there will be others on the race track that uses better with the same hp as you got but will cross the finish line sooner. why? not because they get up to 1 hp advantage, but really cause of the dyno I've attached below which says that filters alone can make an engine excel through the entire rpm range up to 1 second faster.

1 second faster, 1 hp more, and more filtration for the same cost is got to be one of the most elementrary lesson I've every said here on ATVRIDERS. End of debate. You continue to run inferior, after we continue to post results, and you'll continue to be second on the track.

I've really become aggravated to the fullist with conveying this basic concept. You think money, I think hp gain, more filtration, better flow, 1 second rev time increases.


arggggg..

:mad:

03-07-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by chad502ex
Look at it this way,.... it's a secret pist!

You keep running that K&N, which is fine, and there will be others on the race track that uses better with the same hp as you got but will cross the finish line sooner. why? not because they get up to 1 hp advantage, but really cause of the dyno I've attached below which says that filters alone can make an engine excel through the entire rpm range up to 1 second faster.

1 second faster, 1 hp more, and more filtration for the same cost is got to be one of the most elementrary lesson I've every said here on ATVRIDERS. End of debate. You continue to run inferior, after we continue to post results, and you'll continue to be second on the track.

I've really become aggravated to the fullist with conveying this basic concept. You think money, I think hp gain, more filtration, better flow, 1 second rev time increases.


arggggg..

:mad:

ok i get what your saying now, but in XC that really wont make 2 much of a difference, at least from my perspective

now, as for the rest of this stuff i am wanting to kno...where can i get this filter? how much does it cost? are they accepting sponsorships? can you still run the airbox lid or does it not clear?

thanks for the info chad, never thought about the faster air speed comming into play, but now i got it

protraxrptr17
03-07-2006, 07:12 PM
Does this filter also fit 250R's? I built my bike to accept 250R filters and am impressed by these results.

chad502ex
03-08-2006, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by protraxrptr17
Does this filter also fit 250R's? I built my bike to accept 250R filters and am impressed by these results.

we are verify'n that the EXR filter will fit into 250R's applications this week. Additionally, we checking to see if the EXR filter will cross-over into some utility applications too.

protraxrptr17
03-08-2006, 07:10 PM
Good deal. Even if it won't fit, post up the inside diameter of the throat. I'll just machine a new flange to fit your filter. I need to redesign my intake setup anyhow.

chad502ex
03-08-2006, 07:17 PM
well shoot! dawg-gone',...

I have three filters your can choose from:

3.5" inside flange
4.0" inside flange


or a third maybe tested this weekend

4.5" inside flange.

03-09-2006, 09:24 AM
where can i get one of these? :confused:

chad502ex
03-09-2006, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Yurik Norton
where can i get one of these? :confused:

I thought you were going to stick with K&N? now you want one?

just let me know which one your interested in (EXR or 06 or revised EXR)

03-09-2006, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by chad502ex
I thought you were going to stick with K&N? now you want one?

just let me know which one your interested in (EXR or 06 or revised EXR)

no i plan on sticking with my k&n still, but may be interested in making the switch mid season, my k&n has been used for about a year and a half, so probably about ready to get a new one, im interested in whichever one gets the best air flow/filtration that can rev the bike out faster as you were talking about, that you can also still use an airbox lid on

TURBO-530R
03-09-2006, 02:16 PM
Quote

ok i get what your saying now, but in XC that really wont make 2 much of a difference, at least from my perspectiveQuote

sorry to say, but im sticking with my K&N ,

im sticking with my K&N

im sticking with my K&N
lol lol lmao


Lets see Chad so if my bike gains 1 sec every time I rev it through the gear then a few revs a few gears a few turns, a few revs a few gears a few turns, a few revs a few gears a few turns and who knows 60 or so of these then I will be pulling ahead a minute or so from the guy with the K & N.: D: D: D Ye Haa. Hell by the time the race is over I could have had a smoke waiting for the rest of them to catch up.. lol :D :D

chad502ex
03-09-2006, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by TURBO-530R
Quote

ok i get what your saying now, but in XC that really wont make 2 much of a difference, at least from my perspectiveQuote

sorry to say, but im sticking with my K&N ,

im sticking with my K&N

im sticking with my K&N
lol lol lmao


Lets see Chad so if my bike gains 1 sec every time I rev it through the gear then a few revs a few gears a few turns, a few revs a few gears a few turns, a few revs a few gears a few turns and who knows 60 or so of these then I will be pulling ahead a minute or so from the guy with the K & N.: D: D: D Ye Haa. Hell by the time the race is over I could have had a smoke waiting for the rest of them to catch up.. lol :D :D



LOL you deek-head!! LOL:D :cool:

these dyno pulls are in 5th gear

chad502ex
03-09-2006, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Yurik Norton
no i plan on sticking with my k&n still, but may be interested in making the switch mid season, my k&n has been used for about a year and a half, so probably about ready to get a new one, im interested in whichever one gets the best air flow/filtration that can rev the bike out faster as you were talking about, that you can also still use an airbox lid on

ok that's kewl.

Did you decide what version your interested in?

protraxrptr17
03-09-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by chad502ex
well shoot! dawg-gone',...

I have three filters your can choose from:

3.5" inside flange
4.0" inside flange


or a third maybe tested this weekend

4.5" inside flange.

Is the 4.5" inside flange a clamp on style? I'll just use that. Bigger is better, right?? What's the difference in the versions? Obviously I want the newest if it's the best.:cool:

Oh yeah, what's the price on these? You can PM it to me if you can't post it.

03-09-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by TURBO-530R
Quote

ok i get what your saying now, but in XC that really wont make 2 much of a difference, at least from my perspectiveQuote

sorry to say, but im sticking with my K&N ,

im sticking with my K&N

im sticking with my K&N
lol lol lmao


Lets see Chad so if my bike gains 1 sec every time I rev it through the gear then a few revs a few gears a few turns, a few revs a few gears a few turns, a few revs a few gears a few turns and who knows 60 or so of these then I will be pulling ahead a minute or so from the guy with the K & N.: D: D: D Ye Haa. Hell by the time the race is over I could have had a smoke waiting for the rest of them to catch up.. lol :D :D

you dont have to make me sound like an idiot, all i was saying is that in XC the difference between getting stuck behind a slow rider and passing him can win or lose a race for you, its all in rider abilty and quick thinking, not how fast your bike revs

chad i am interested in whatever is the best, im guessing that would be the revised exr? i definently want one that i can use with the air box lid on, that at least has as good or better filtering then the k&n with more hp or whatever, basically i want the best 1 i can use with a lid, im guessing that is the revised exr? :confused:

where can i get the revised exr and how much?

TURBO-530R
03-10-2006, 03:47 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yurik Norton
[B]you dont have to make me sound like an idiot, all i wassyaying is that in XC the difference between getting stuck behind a slow rider and passing him can win or lose a race for you, its all in rider
abilty and quick thinking, now how fast your bike revs
__________________________________________________


Not my intension. I just thought it was funny when you said it.
sorry: :devil: Turbo

chad502ex
03-10-2006, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Yurik Norton
you dont have to make me sound like an idiot, all i was saying is that in XC the difference between getting stuck behind a slow rider and passing him can win or lose a race for you, its all in rider abilty and quick thinking, now how fast your bike revs

chad i am interested in whatever is the best, im guessing that would be the revised exr? i definently want one that i can use with the air box lid on, that at least has as good or better filtering then the k&n with more hp or whatever, basically i want the best 1 i can use with a lid, im guessing that is the revised exr? :confused:

where can i get the revised exr and how much?

patience young jedi-knight!!

Since you race, I'll be getting you a DRG filter at cost.

Do you need a filter sock too?

03-10-2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by chad502ex
patience young jedi-knight!!

Since you race, I'll be getting you a DRG filter at cost.

Do you need a filter sock too?

i dont think i will need a filter sock being i have an outerwear airbox cover, pm me the prices or whatever and ill let you know, i may just get it anyway, just depends

also does the DRG fit with airbox lid?

03-10-2006, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by TURBO-530R
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yurik Norton
[B]you dont have to make me sound like an idiot, all i wassyaying is that in XC the difference between getting stuck behind a slow rider and passing him can win or lose a race for you, its all in rider
abilty and quick thinking, now how fast your bike revs
__________________________________________________


Not my intension. I just thought it was funny when you said it.
sorry: :devil: Turbo

ok lol, your forgiven haha :blah:

chad502ex
03-10-2006, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Yurik Norton
also does the DRG fit with airbox lid?

yes.

chad502ex
03-10-2006, 07:07 PM
DRG TURBINE

:macho



logos will surround inverted rim in orange lettering and center of turbine with be orange too!!

chad502ex
03-10-2006, 07:07 PM
another shot of the

DRG TURBINE!

03-10-2006, 08:34 PM
wow, yurik likes, tell me how much chad! i want my price! lol

i will list them as a sponsor if they want me 2, just get me the right hookups and some cool stickers ;)

K&N doesnt sponsor or help me at all so im more then willing to have a filter sponsor

chad502ex
03-10-2006, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Yurik Norton
wow, yurik likes, tell me how much chad! i want my price! lol

i will list them as a sponsor if they want me 2, just get me the right hookups and some cool stickers ;)

K&N doesnt sponsor or help me at all so im more then willing to have a filter sponsor

thanks. I'll let you know beginning of next week prices, ok?

protraxrptr17
03-13-2006, 05:43 PM
That thing looks awesome! Do all racers get them at cost?

I'll ask again (maybe you didn't see it before), is the 4.5" model a clamp on? I definitely have to have one of these.