Newby - cracked cyl, w/440kit

[johnsls]

Hey everyone. I've been on here awhile but finally bought my own quad.
02' 400ex with a 440kit. The problem is that the sleeve is cracked, but the guy I bought it from said "no problem all you need is get a new sleeve, piston & rings." (I think the carb was set back to stock)

Well trying to find someone on the east coast that will remove the old sleeve and put a new one is seems impossible.
Also I took the cylinder to Honda and they said nah,, buy a new cylinder, piston, rings.. he also mentioned a whole bunch of other stuff :huh but I guess I'll worry about that later.

So I finally ask all of you... WHAT THE HELL DO I DO?

tks :confused:

[Chino886]

New sleeve, piston, and rings are you will be good to go.

[johnsls]

Thanks chino,, any chance anyone has used or knows where I can get all 3 at a really good price?

Honda told me the cylinder alone was $356
then add piston, rings,, "new bolts"
All together about $500

DO I NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE LOWER PARTS OF THE ENGINE?
Honda suggested having everything checked out due to the mod done to the engine....
Let me know

[Buffalo400]

first of all, never go to a dealer... he wants your cash, that all.....

on e bay, new sleeve, piston and ring, 171,99$ US and add 100 bucks to put the new sleeve in your cylinder.....

No item : 4617279196


it,s the same price for a 11:1 or 12,5:1 piston.... 11:1 run on 93 octane gaz and 12,5:1 on race gaz....


My best advice....
Go in a real performance atv shop, and %$%&# the dealer.... he want to sell you a new cylinder... pfff......This guy is a sucker...

[Green95Hoe]

Once you get the parts, most any machine shop around can do teh re-sleeve. My guy charged me 200 to put it in and set it up for my piston size.

~Brad

[cals400ex]

i had C&D racing do mine. they have their own forum on this site under the site sponsor section so ask them for prices. the key to keeping a 440 living is to make sure you have plenty of clearance between the cases and the sleeve. the sleeves needed for the 440's are larger than the stock sleeves so they are close too and may possibly even hit the case. this can cause the piston to bind a bit and crack the sleeve. i ran a tapered sleeve and they claimed you do not ened to bore the cases. however, i did a little bit to be 100% sure.

[johnsls]

:confused:
I don't know too much about engines. BUT, I did try to find someone to remove and install a new sleeve locally.. not happening, about $250

LA Sleeve won't do it back to stock and the girl at C&D racing told me that I either needed to purchase another 440sleeve, piston & rings or if I wanted all stock that they don't do it and I'd be better off buying a new oem cylinder,piston & rings.. they only specialize.

I'm being pulled in both directions depending on who I talk to.

I don't want the 440kit, but I did find the ATVUNILIMITED on ebay too,, not too bad.

I did find someone who has a New OEM cylinder for $200 and he's getting me prices on the piston, clips, rings and some other stuff. I found him on ebay - mxrevolution

$200 for the cylinder is better than $356 from the dealer.

Then I need to find someone locally who can assist me putting it all back together.. I have one or two guys but its a matter of getting a hold of them.

Anyone from NJ?

thanks...

[cals400ex]

i didn't realize you did not want a 440 kit. if you just get a new sleeve you will probably need a larger sleeve that will only accept a 426 or larger piston. if you want a stock bore piston, i would get a whole new cylinder myself. what you need to watch out for when buying a used cylinder is that it will need to be bored or honed at minimum. this will cost more money. it wont' be too expensive but it will cost something. then you need to get new rings on a used pistons preferably. the cylinders new on www.servicehonda.com are around $250. i guess i am not sure if you want a stock built bike or a better performing bike.......

[johnsls]

I guess I'm trying to keep it simple. Yeah I can go for the 416 or 426, but I'll never race and a stock bike is plenty fast for me. I'm almost 40 but run like I'm 30 years old. I can't afford to do too much stuff so thats why I'm keeping it simple.

Heres what someone quoted me from an online store, (all oem Honda parts) -

1. Piston(std): 13101-kcy-670 ---------------$58.05ea
2. Ring set(std): 13011-KCY-670 ------------$35.41ea
3. Pin,piston: 13111-KCY-670----------------$12.61ea
4. Clip (1.2x20): 90601-KA5-000-------------$1.04 ea
5. Chain, cam: 14401-KCY-671---------------$84.28ea
6. Tensioner, cam chain: 14511-KCY-670---$55.24ea
7. Bolt socket (10x45): 90181-HN1-000 ----$1.25ea
8. Cylinder - $210.00 (I was quoted $356 from Honda)
9. Bolts, (flange, stud, washers etc..) (no price yet)

I thought I might as well get all new stuff that has anything to do with the cylinder and piston. I'm hoping everything else is ok.

ALSO - If I was going to think about the 416 or 426, would I need to jet the carb and buy somekind of other kit?

You see if I get one thing then buy it I don't want to find out later that "Oh you also gotta do this, then this too etc.....)

I want it complete, order it and then get everything back together.
Thanks again for your help.
John

[cals400ex]

so are you saying you need all of this stuff or is the dealer just telling you to buy this stuff?? such as the cam chain, tensioner, etc. if you do not need this, do not buy it. if you do, you can run the crf450r dirtbike timing chain in the 400ex. it is cheaper for one and for two it is a heavy duty version chain for the 400ex. i would get the new cylinder. for the piston, i would got a stock bore higher compression piston. je, ross and probably CP also make stock bore pistons. most of them are around 10.5:1 compression ratio which is just fine for pump fuel. these pistons are probably around $125. for an additional $130 or so you can run a hotcam camshaft. i would not get the stage 1 simply because it ticks loud. i have not ran their new stage 2 hotcam. their stage 3 hotcam is a more aggressive cam and will like high rpms. for all around power i would probably try the stage 2 if you are looking. this stock bore high compression piston and camshaft will dramatically improve the feel of your bike. we all know it takes money to go faster and if you do not want to spend it, then that is no problem.....just don't expect to go faster.

for the jetting, i would recommend going up a size or two on the mainjet if you run this piston and a cam. i do not know if you run a stock pipe or not but this cam and piston will open up your bike even if you do. this setup will outrun any piped 400ex (stock motor) that i have across. many do not believe me but i have tried it before. anyways, the pipe will also change the jetting. you can simply buy a new mainjet or two for a few dollars each and possibly a new pilot jet if you want easier starting (even on a stock bike). you do not need to buy a whole kit or anything like that.


remember, you will need a head (between the head and the cylinder) and a base gasket (underneath the cylinder) too. you can run a thin cosmetic flexsteel head gasket which will improve the burn rate of the engine by a little bit. this will raise your compression a tad also.

[johnsls]

I'm saying that I need it.. (don't I?)
The cylinder I have has the 440kit. The sleeve cracked so I'd prefer to go back to all stock. So to play it safe, I'd rather buy all the stuff new than to use some of the old bolts etc...

So wouldn'd I need all this - ?

1. Piston(std): 13101-kcy-670 ---------------$58.05ea
2. Ring set(std): 13011-KCY-670 ------------$35.41ea
3. Pin,piston: 13111-KCY-670----------------$12.61ea
4. Clip (1.2x20): 90601-KA5-000-------------$1.04 ea
5. Chain, cam: 14401-KCY-671---------------$84.28ea
6. Tensioner, cam chain: 14511-KCY-670---$55.24ea
7. Bolt socket (10x45): 90181-HN1-000 ----$1.25ea
8. Cylinder - $210.00 (I was quoted $356 from Honda)
9. Bolts, (flange, stud, washers etc..) (no price yet)

For me to go out and buy JE, wiseco, etcc I'd have to start doing too many other things like jetting and stuff that I literally have no clud how to do. Thats why I thought if I was buying stock I won't have to worry about doing any other mods.

tks

[hauck400ex]

you cant go back to stock, the cylinder is bored to accept the 440 sleeve and is too large for the standard sleeve... i can get you the 440 sleeve, piston, rings, adn gaskets for $185 and resleeve the cylinder for $115... if you wanted me to tear it down and rebuild it all you would be looking at another $100, if you sent it torn apart it would be $300, if i did it, it would be $400

It would take about 3 days for me to get the cylinder sleeved and bored, then about a day for the tear down and another day for the rebuild, so you would be looking at about a week before it was done...

[johnsls]

hauck400ex,
I didn't think I could go back to stock with the same cylinder,, the guy I bought it from said I could but I wonder. Did he possibly bore out the original sleeve to make it a 440 ??

I just don't want to do soooo much stuff to the quad. I know the bike will scream and all but I don't need it to. I won't ever race and do WOT. I'm gonna trail ride and thats about it, I'm almost 40 but I'm in good shape and all but I'm still not going to want to go nuts.

I am just thinking now to maybe get a 416 but even with that you need to jet your carb and it would be better to buy a full exhaust or slip on.

Its too much for me. I really don't have that much cash. I just want to get the bike running again and then keep up on the maintenance.

let me know

[hauck400ex]

heres the thing, the cylinder is made for the stock sleeve, the 440 sleeve makes you have to bore out the actual cylinder, so you cant go any smaller than that 440 sleeve unless you get a whole new cylinder...

it would be a lot cheaper to stay with the 440 rather than get a new cylinder

[Chino886]

or trade someone cylinders, piston, rods off of a stocker.

[johnsls]

I know that I would have to buy a new cylinder that why I posted all the prices etc..

If I stuck with the 440 how good is it to have the sleeve taken out and redone? But then wouldn't I have to get the carb done, buy full exhaust? What else did I miss. Also how reliable are the 440kits.

One more thing. The inside of the 440sleeve is not "grooved" is it supposed to be? The guy at honda said it should have cross grooves (I thingk I'm saying this right)

The cylinder is out of the engine and no chain. I bought a real fixer upper.

I'll be back online in about an hour, if not then not till tomorrow, gotta leave work.

[hauck400ex]

jetting would be included with the price i gave you....
and the cross-hatching or hashing, is the honing, that gets done with the new sleeve...

the 440 is as reliable as you want it to be... you will need to run higher octane gas, but as long as you take care of it you should have any problems...

i can get you a chain for $15 unless you mean cam chain, then it would be $60

[Buffalo400]

go 440 all the way.......


so, If I was you, i will go to a REAL ATV SHOP, not the DEALER.... I,m so surprising if you need to buy a new cam chain tensionner and a cam chain.... It soud like the dealer would #$"$&* you....

If I was you, 440 10:1 kit, not as quick as a 440 11:1 ou 12,5:1 but more reliable and colder.... aslo, no need of HD head stud and no head gasket problem.....

the 440 10:1 probably a 300$ for a sleeve, piston, gasket and labor and maybe less if you are able to unscrew few bolts.......

I know you don't want problem but you will be able to rebuild 2 times a 440 for the price of this all brand new 400ex stuff...

[Buffalo400]

ALSO - If I was going to think about the 416 or 426, would I need to jet the carb and buy somekind of other kit?



You will have some trouble with a 426 on a stock sleeve... it will be to thin and cause heating problem....

And yes, Each new performance part, you need to rejet.. it,s easy to do, learn it...

firsty of all, Buy a clymer shop manual....

So, it's your choice what you want to do with your bike... a lot of cash for a 400ex or save cash, built a 10:1 440 and smoke a lot of 400ex...

[curious george]

Originally posted by hauck400ex
you cant go back to stock, the cylinder is bored to accept the 440 sleeve and is too large for the standard sleeve... i can get you the 440 sleeve, piston, rings, adn gaskets for $185 and resleeve the cylinder for $115... if you wanted me to tear it down and rebuild it all you would be looking at another $100, if you sent it torn apart it would be $300, if i did it, it would be $400

It would take about 3 days for me to get the cylinder sleeved and bored, then about a day for the tear down and another day for the rebuild, so you would be looking at about a week before it was done...
he my email is capblackdragons@yahoo.com i would like to send my head to you with cash if you could big bore the 440 for me that would be great does this include stage 2 cam?

[johnsls]

Hauck400ex.

"I can get you the 440 sleeve, piston, rings, adn gaskets for $185 and resleeve the cylinder for $115... if you wanted me to tear it down and rebuild it all you would be looking at another $100,"

"if you sent it torn apart it would be $300, if i did it, it would be $400"

So this is more expensive because its apart?

It would take about 3 days for me to get the cylinder sleeved and bored, then about a day for the tear down and another day for the rebuild, so you would be looking at about a week before it was done...

My cylinder & cylinder head is already off and so is the cam. I have no chain, the one that goes to the rear axle. Nothing has been touched on the bottom end.
I don't want to have to send you the whole engine. I'm thinking if you were able to resleeve a new 440, piston etc.. and then I'll put it back together. Then what about the exhaust, Don't you have to do the whole exhaust??
I don't want to have to run race fuel and the 93octane isn't that much more expensive.
I JUST WANT IT TO LAST. So I don't have to do this all again.
Let me know.. PM me or email: jrgb05@optonline.net

tks
John, I gotta go again I'll be back online tomorrow.

[johnsls]

Is it at all possible to put a 440kit in without having to bore the cylinder? (I kinda dont think so) But I'm just wondering because someone told me I can take it back to stock without replacing the cylinder.. I have my doubts.

tks

[cals400ex]

you may not have to bore the cylinder. i am not exactly sure how it is done but they press your sleeve out and put a new one in. you may need to bore you sleeve though. some kits may come with a sleeve already made for the piston in the kit. other sleeves will come to fit around a 426 or so and then you can bore them out to a 440 if you want.

[hauck400ex]

you cant bore a stock sleeve to 440, its not big enough, the 440 sleeve is a bigger sleeve and you have to bore the cylinder itself to fit the sleeve

[johnsls]

I removed what I wrote here, I'm not going with wiseco. see below.

[Chino886]

Originally posted by johnsls
OK, I decided to stay with the 440kit. Heres what I found online at Rockymountainatv.com

WISECO BIG BORE 440 KIT - 2002 400EX (part# 412212)
Wiseco replacement gasket kit
Wiseco bore sleeve
Wiseco replacement piston
$241.99

I'm also going to get the K&N Jet Kit - $48.00 (part# 818107)

Shipping via UPS ground,, no charge.

If anyone else know where I can get the same thing cheaper, let me know.

Call Colby and see he if can Beat it!

C & D Racing (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=36)

[Buffalo400]

Originally posted by johnsls
OK, I decided to stay with the 440kit. Heres what I found online at Rockymountainatv.com

WISECO BIG BORE 440 KIT - 2002 400EX (part# 412212)
Wiseco replacement gasket kit
Wiseco bore sleeve
Wiseco replacement piston
$241.99

I'm also going to get the K&N Jet Kit - $48.00 (part# 818107)

Shipping via UPS ground,, no charge.

If anyone else know where I can get the same thing cheaper, let me know.

I will repeat for a second time, 170$ on ebay. another advice, forget the jek kit and buy a FST oil cooler... go on permacool website...

[johnsls]

Chino886, thanks I talked to Colby,, very cool.

Heres what I'm going to go with

JE Pistons 426 kit 11:1 - $245
Hotcam Stage 2 - $136
Machine work(remove old sleeve install new and resurface the top of the cylinder) - $100

LA Sleeve makes a 426 sleeve that has the same outside diameter as the 440. So for just under $500 all I will have to do is install the new cam and cylinder and whola.. done.

:cool:

Fair price ??? Cheers to Colby at C&D

[Buffalo400]

good power and reliable setup.... HD head studs could be a good idea...

[Chino886]

Originally posted by johnsls
Chino886, thanks I talked to Colby,, very cool.

Heres what I'm going to go with

JE Pistons 426 kit 11:1 - $245
Hotcam Stage 2 - $136
Machine work(remove old sleeve install new and resurface the top of the cylinder) - $100

LA Sleeve makes a 426 sleeve that has the same outside diameter as the 440. So for just under $500 all I will have to do is install the new cam and cylinder and whola.. done.

:cool:

Fair price ??? Cheers to Colby at C&D

Good Job buddy! Now get it done!

[cals400ex]

yes, that LA sleeve is the same one i ran in my 426 and the same one my buddy runs in his 440. i think you can actually bore it a little past a 440 if need be.


that piston should not cost $245 if it is a shelf piston. no way.........

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Originally posted by cals400ex
yes, that LA sleeve is the same one i ran in my 426 and the same one my buddy runs in his 440. i think you can actually bore it a little past a 440 if need be.


that piston should not cost $245 if it is a shelf piston. no way.........

its not $245 for the piston kit it is $245 for the piston, sleeve, and gaskets

[johnsls]

My mistake,, :( sorry. I typed the info too fast and didn't include everything.

Colby, Can you put your address info on here so I can send you my cylinder or send me an email??

jrgb05@optonline.net


THANKS!!

[Colby@C&DRacing]

4855 S 66th Circle
Omaha NE 68117


If you are going to send the cylinder I would like to get all your info in and method of payment before you ship it, you can call me with the info or you can pm me the info..

[cals400ex]

that price sounds right. actually, that seems to be a good price...:)

yeah john, we had C&D do two of those LA sleeve for us and both turned out great. you will be happy. :D

[426ex44]

should have bought a 440 cylinder right away

[cals400ex]

he already had a 440 cylinder. it just cracked. you can NOT run a 440 without resleeving it.